Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

The one thing I hadn't considered was how dedicated the P & R duo is to the Pistons and how much they love playing for and being a part of the Detroit culture...IMHO Andre cares, but Reggie could give less than a damn. This pair needs to be broken up. Drummond is a Piston, Reggie is a mercenary.

Since last seasons end, the constant railing against Drummond's deficiencies, by Don, have more or less made me overlook what we have going for us in this gifted young man...gifted and talented, albeit, uninspired and undeveloped. You don't hand out maximum contracts to raw talent and not have any plans in place to mold that talent...if a masterful game doesn't jump out of his pay envelope, trade his ass. When it comes to that line of thinking, one is more in tune with Reggie's attitude toward Detroit's best interest...they could give less than a damn. Drummond isn't lazy, just uninspired; he's not hard-headed, just mislead and undeveloped. Trade Jackson, work with Drummond!

Any guard with a halfway decent I.Q. can run the P & R with an athlete the caliber of Drummond (Will Bynum proved that!) and we've got an abundance of high I.Q., healthy guards, who can be more efficient/effective than Jackson, if given half a chance. Trade Jackson, allow Drummond to grow. IMHO room must be made to play Galloway and Kennard decent minutes so we can see where we stand by seasons end, when it matters, and make fools out of the naysayers who predict we're not a +.500 ball club! (Of course I may be the fool should the Pistons win less than last year as predicted.)

PF is the weakest/shakiest link in our rotation, like it or not, and that's all SVG/Bower need to address before training camp, instead of procrastinating until the trade deadline, who some favor doing business there. PF is viewed as the least important position on the floor, but championship history has proven different. What we could use to compliment our starting lineup is an All-Star caliber PF...the one who's flying under the radar now is LaMarcus Aldridge, and that famed 3-4 team trade could possibly land Aldridge here and Jackson elsewhere. I'm not going to say who could be included in the trade to make the salaries work, but their initials are Jon Leuer...couldn't resist it.

Just what makes you think that Drummond is a great pick and roll player dX. Drummond only has the dunk shot. That worked two seasons ago because opposing teams didn't set their defense to stop it. Last season they did. How about Anthony Davis and his skill set? The Pelicans center their defense around Davis rightfully so because he has a great skill set that can counter any defense opposing teams want to throw at his team. Do you actually believe that Drummond is in the same league as Davis? Do you believe that Drummond has a high basketball IQ like Davis who won the NCAA championship way back when. Did he need time to develop? This is a pipe dream in my opinion. Drummond has perhaps the worst defensive skill set of any starting center in the league. He has the worst defect which is extremely slow recognition ability. Everything in the NBA is executed at a really high pace way faster than college ball. When SVG says Drummond needs to be more engaged maybe that is not true. Andre is just a slow thinker on the basketball court. That doesn't mean he is not a smart man off the court. I have coached slow thinking basketball players and it is extremely tough to get them up to speed in the much slower high school game. Oracle has previously indicated that even in the NBA certain coaches can make a difference. But I disagree regarding how fast you can ever get an NBA player to speed up their mind in this current NBA game. But excluding Andre's weak defensive skill set, if you think that it only takes more time for Andre to be a superstar playing the P & R you are asking for a miracle. While we had to watch this type of offense all last season which turned out to be one of the most boring offenses in the NBA that I have ever seen, I do not want to see it repeated. What I would like to see is other players featured within the half court set. We need smart basketball players who can execute in a variety of ways much like Ish Smith said when he was talking about the rookie Kennard. Kennard is a clever guy with or without the basketball. This team now has Bradley who also has a wide variety of ways to score. I want to see more screening, cutting, passing and using both sides of the court. I do not want to see the point guard go into traffic and try to get Andre a dunk. This is old strategy that didn't work against any quality team and never will work unless you have an Anthony Davis type of player instead of Andre Drummond.

While Reggie has his faults, we all can remember how hard he played at the end of games two years ago and it was clear that he gave everything he had. On the other hand I can never forgive Andre for his failure of giving an honest effort to play defense in the first and third quarter of almost every game after the Christmas holidays. He was the guy who allowed layups in the paint way too much. One could see that he wasn't engaged. If you know that you have slow recognition skills as your basic weakness on defense and you make $20M plus and have good teammates, who do you know that you respect that would not try to make up for that weakness by using every bit of energy you have to make up for the weakness? Who would not run the court as hard as you could if you do care at all? No I think Andre was disappointed that Reggie couldn't deliver the basketball to him last season so he never tried to play as hard as he could play. We saw a play now and then on defense when Andre looked like a super star. He was quick and agile and recovered at times when he was out smarted. So I know he could have played must better but decided that he didn't give a crap. No coach can work with that type of player if rules are not enforced. The coach never enforced the rules and placed AD on the bench where he belonged. Maybe he wanted to and the owner said don't you dare. I think AD will always be known as a player who will do exactly what he wants to do. He will ignore any game plan on offense unless he is the featured player in the offense and has never shown any ability to be coached on the defensive end. He still doesn't have the defensive rotation system down. He goes through the motions as slackers always do.

What a shame but the world is full of slackers so if the offense is created to show off AD again, you will see much the same thing happening as we saw last season.AD expects to be the featured player too. So how do you deal with that if you are the coach who has the owner on his back because of his relationship with AD? If this is the situation why would anyone not expect a repeat of the dysfunction we saw last year? Andre has been working on his post up game. Won't that be fun to watch. The sad part of it will be that we won't get to see players who actually do care about playing the right way who do have real talent.

My problem with the Irving trade idea would not be seeing Drummond go if we got Thompson. He plays defense and rebounds in important key situations. I don't want to lose Johnson or a number on pick or Avery Bradley. The only way things can work with Drummond is if he accepts his role on the team as a shot blocker, rim protector and offensive rebounder. But Andre has his own ideas. Play Moreland and the team will look better. We do not need Andre Drummond. Management needs to lose his contract.

[deusXango]

The one thing I hadn't considered was how dedicated the P & R duo is to the Pistons and how much they love playing for and being a part of the Detroit culture...IMHO Andre cares, but Reggie could give less than a damn. This pair needs to be broken up. Drummond is a Piston, Reggie is a mercenary.

Since last seasons end, the constant railing against Drummond's deficiencies, by Don, have more or less made me overlook what we have going for us in this gifted young man...gifted and talented, albeit, uninspired and undeveloped. You don't hand out maximum contracts to raw talent and not have any plans in place to mold that talent...if a masterful game doesn't jump out of his pay envelope, trade his ass. When it comes to that line of thinking, one is more in tune with Reggie's attitude toward Detroit's best interest...they could give less than a damn. Drummond isn't lazy, just uninspired; he's not hard-headed, just mislead and undeveloped. Trade Jackson, work with Drummond!

Any guard with a halfway decent I.Q. can run the P & R with an athlete the caliber of Drummond (Will Bynum proved that!) and we've got an abundance of high I.Q., healthy guards, who can be more efficient/effective than Jackson, if given half a chance. Trade Jackson, allow Drummond to grow. IMHO room must be made to play Galloway and Kennard decent minutes so we can see where we stand by seasons end, when it matters, and make fools out of the naysayers who predict we're not a +.500 ball club! (Of course I may be the fool should the Pistons win less than last year as predicted.)

PF is the weakest/shakiest link in our rotation, like it or not, and that's all SVG/Bower need to address before training camp, instead of procrastinating until the trade deadline, who some favor doing business there. PF is viewed as the least important position on the floor, but championship history has proven different. What we could use to compliment our starting lineup is an All-Star caliber PF...the one who's flying under the radar now is LaMarcus Aldridge, and that famed 3-4 team trade could possibly land Aldridge here and Jackson elsewhere. I'm not going to say who could be included in the trade to make the salaries work, but their initials are Jon Leuer...couldn't resist it.

[cool breeze]

If we look at the roster it doesn't seem likely that a trade is brewing. From watching Jackson last season if I were a betting man the odds that Reggie would return to his form two seasons ago would be extremely low. I keep saying that I never saw Reggie limp as if his problem even involved his knee. In every game he played last season it appeared that he was always out of gas within two minutes on the court. He couldn't get enough oxygen. He had a look of physical distress. He was not comfortable and was laboring at all times. He had no spark obviously because he had a major physical cardio issue. Asthma possibly?? Reggie is taking a lot of flack but there is no doubt in my mind that Jackson has heart and is not a slacker like Andre Drummond. All the trade rumors that were floating around showed me that Piston management did try to move both Drummond and Jackson but if any real offers were made, it showed the trade value of both Piston players is extremely low so why not take a chance that both players will bounce back? Possibly AD alone might not have even gotten the Pistons a high number one pick next summer. And every GM knows that Jackson is a huge gamble.

SVG must have confidence in the rest of the roster that he has put together. Will we see Galloway starting at point guard before the season is over? This guy can defend and he is a smart low turnover type player. Maybe he might give the team that pass first point guard that they need to be successful.

One thought scares be a lot. Will SVG force the pick and roll game with Reggie and Andre down the fans throat again just to bring up the trade value of both Jackson and Drummond before the trade deadline? Maybe that is not such a bad strategy if Reggie can play ball and Andre is motivated at least on the offensive end. We know he will never be motivated to play defense. It is just not in his nature. Also, we must consider that the roster will be much different this time around. Could Bradley really impact this team by the way he plays basketball? The Pistons have not had a player like Bradley since the days when the Pistons were among the league leaders. He has a big motor. He communicates exceptionally well too. Could Avery actually be the one person who jump starts Andre Drummond's spirit and forces him to play the right way? If Drummond could free his brain from nonsense and embrace playing the way Bradley plays, he could dominate the game on defense. We have all waited a long time to see that spark in AD. It hasn't happened yet but perhaps SVG made the right call to give the new roster a chance to become something special.

By the way, I like Ish Smith's interview about his take on Kennard and Galloway. I am not sure how many Piston players are at the practice facility working out with each other and possibly already playing 5 on 5. Hopefully SVG will pay attention to detail and actually be able to put contracts aside and watch to see which players connect with each other the best. If it is Moreland instead of Drummond who gets to the right spots on defense when Avery is on the floor, I am sure Bradley will call the coach out if he doesn't do the right thing. What still bothers me a lot is the actual basketball IQ of the entire coaching staff. No changes were made from last season that I know of. The coaches had no positive impact on the players that showed up on the court during games last season. The coaches sat watching without showing much emotion when players were slacking off in the last 15 games. I have rarely seen that in my life by any coaching staff at any level. The coaches were not engaged much like Drummond. They watched. SVG only flopped his arms a lot. No changes were made. In the last game of the season, Leuer got his ass handed to him much like the Jason Maxiell experience during the playoff series against Cleveland years ago. They went right at Maxiell time after time. He had no place to hide. He had horrible luck in that series too and the coaching staff just watched and made no adjustments. Leuer could not defend anyone in that Orlando game. They took it to him almost every time they got into a half court set. I'll bet Leuer has hit the weight room a lot since that game. Hopefully he will be a lot stronger this time around. SVG does play his high contract players regardless of what is actually happening on the hardwood. So we better pull for Leuer to have a better season. But is it laughable to recall SVG's comments about Ellenson. Ellenson is bigger and stronger and faster than Leuer. Ellenson needs a lot of coaching to improve his defense but his motor is great. Last season Leuer couldn't defend one starting power forward. When he played next to Drummond that was ugly to watch. Ellenson might have helped. He gets out of position at times but recovers quickly. To me, if Harris doesn't play power forward, the job should be Ellenson's to lose.

SVG is not a popular guy these days. Fans trusted him until his performance last year. He must know everyone is critical of him now. Will that cause him to do the right thing this season? Maybe he will show the world that he can actually make adjustments and see what opposing coaches are doing strategy wise. If opposing teams go right at Drummond again, will he still sit and watch as if nothing is wrong? I think not. He knows the score now. So why not be optimistic at least at least until we see what happens?

[BallinD]

Now if SVG can only stay out of his way.

Per Ish Smith:  Luke, shoot, I’m not a Duke fan” – Smith played at ACC rival Wake Forest – “but I’m excited about Luke. He reminds me of – I don’t want to say this, because Chris Mullin is a Hall of Famer – but he reminds me a little of Chris Mullin and how he plays, his niftiness.”

“The game has changed,” he said. “It’s still a point guard-heavy league, but when you’ve got so many guys who can create, that’s how the game is. It’s read and react. Look at Golden State. They’ve got four or five guys. Reason why Cleveland didn’t beat ’em is Cleveland’s got two guys in LeBron (James) and Kyrie (Irving).

“Langston and Avery, absolutely, they do that for us. Then you add Luke in there.

No mention of Weggie's ability to read and react, though under ideal circumstances circa 2015...he can do it...could do it...used to could do it?!?!

[Sparma]

Thanks for that clarification, Deus. I'm not hearing you disagree with any of the seven statements I ventured. Consequently, I take it that you agree that SVG does not value Leuer over Harris or that he has cut into Harris's minutes or scoring productivity. As I understand it, your complaint has to do with the optimal combinations. On that count, given how last season unfolded, I'm hardly able to defend SVG as having found the optimal ways to go. Harris did start again at the end of season, didn't he, with little or no impact? Not having watched, I'm not sure who was in the games down the stretch, but wasn't it generally Harris rather than Leuer?

Sparma, I'm a big fan of Tobias Harris, and think he's been one of the top THREE players on the Pistons since he's been in Detroit; my bias is based on that and nothing more. Jon Leuer and Marcus Morris had been career backups and were paid like backups, but Morris was playing very well alongside Harris, as the PF, before the change because of scoring concerns; the teams scoring went down after Harris was demoted to bench play, but his scoring average didn't decline and it wasn't due to ball-hogging. I don't understand how minutes played factors into who starts and who comes off the bench when it's really a question of fit, chemistry, and production. Which was the better starting duo of forwards, Morris/Leuer or Morris/Harris? IMHO therein lies the root cause of controversy. Facts vs. slick double-talk. My eye test and the opinion of HOF ex-Pistons great, Isiah Lord Thomas lll, is not what I use to make a case against Leuer, but build a case for Harris. You don't bench a player the quality of Harris and make the team better. Leuer is not a defensive stalwart either. The bottom line is, I have little faith in a coach who makes decisions regarding his players that leads to unnecessary controversy.

What stunned me was a comparison made on another basketball site between the Spurs (NBA Champions) Manu Ginobili and the Pistons (Lottery team) Tobias Harris.....Stan Van Gundy ain't no Greg Popovich and that's the rub with team evaluation, and player deployment.

[deusXango]

Thanks Murph, for an exceptionally honest and insightful counter, I'm sold on all points. There's nothing to argue, unless it's for the sake of arguing to be contrary. Mad props and respect.

I'd like to see a dependable, high I.Q., pass first, PG come on board and remove that "IF" from the most important position in the starting lineup; this is more important than returning to any pick and roll of two years ago, but maximizing the talents of Drummond, Bradley, Harris, Johnson, Kennard, Ellenson, Galloway, and Bullock....if we can get those guys going, the rest will fall into place quite nicely, IMHO.

Denial, denial, denial, SVG is so deeply blinded by his denial that his coaching tactics could possibly be negatively affecting the teams progress and overall performance, that the only cure will be to fire him, because he won't replace himself as coach. For that reason, it was a bad decision by Tom Gores to turn his "new toy" totally over to Stan Van Gundy. I'd hope that Mr. Gores learns from his mistakes with SVG, Drummond, and Jackson, because he's demonstrated a willingness to spend money on the home team and, IMO, can be a great owner with the proper President, GM, coach, and team leader(s).

Instead of dreaming of Kyrie Irving, what, if anything, can/could we do to obtain Blake Griffin, Kristaps Porzingis, or Kevin Love? "The hell you say?" I say this is the NBA and stranger things have happened. I'm not drunk on these overpriced, limited skilled, players signed by SVG taking us to the almost promised land...the playoffs shouldn't be the end of our rainbow!

[Murph]

If Eric Moreland can start at PF, after playing 11 games in the NBA then great.  If Henry Ellenson can start at PF, after playing 19 games in the NBA then great.  If Stanley Johnson can start at SF after shooting 37% from the floor in the NBA the last 2 seasons then great.  But until I see it with my own eyes, I am skeptical.

And I'm guessing Ricky Rubio's career 38% FG percentage would get old in the D pretty fast.

Murph, you have every reason to be skeptical because I am skeptical that SVG can coach the talent that he's just assembled. Ricky Rubio is easily the smartest, most selfless passer, and defender of the two PG's being discussed and his FG percentage wouldn't look as bad once he started to get the entire team involved in the offense. Tell me, do you feel Reggie is a better prospect at PG than Ricky? I think it would be great if Reggie passed the ball to Harris, Bradley, or any other 3 point shooters on the floor with him early in the shot clock, but I'm skeptical he will.

Tell me Murph, do you feel that Jon Leuer is the best option for the Pistons starting PF? I know SVG sees Leuer as a starter, but many fans and media members don't; enlighten me with a reasonable argument for Leuer starting over players like Ellenson or Moreland, other than they're unknown and as yet, untested commodity's. PF is our weakest link, but we're strong at SF candidates is the reason I'm not for Stanley Johnson starting this year, but I'm all for giving him consistent PT.

DX, I am also skeptical that SVG can coach. I never liked him going all the way back to Orlando. I don't really like him as a GM either.

I am not a Ricky Rubio fan. I would rather take my chances on Jackson's knee recovering, and RJ returning to form. That might not happen, in which case we will need another starting PG that is not Jackson, Rubio or Ish Smith.

Leuer is a boring player. I would like to see SVG develop and play Ellenson, with the hope that he can move into the starting line-up by mid-season. But it might be a stretch to start him now.

Having said that, there is nothing statistically that says Leuer is a bad player. We might prefer Ellenson because he has a much higher upside, but that doesn't mean Leuer is a bad player. I would have preferred Serge Ibaka.

I agree that Stanley Johnson should get consistent playing time. But offensively, he just isn't getting it. His offensive game is not NBA caliber. He needs to focus on his defense and rebounding like MKG, and stop shooting the ball entirely. Like Andre Drummond, SJ should only score on put-backs and dunks.

That said, Johnson is an impressive defensive player and might develop into a valuable asset. But in hindsight, we should have drafted Winslow, or a number of other players.

[deusXango]

Sparma, I'm a big fan of Tobias Harris, and think he's been one of the top THREE players on the Pistons since he's been in Detroit; my bias is based on that and nothing more. Jon Leuer and Marcus Morris had been career backups and were paid like backups, but Morris was playing very well alongside Harris, as the PF, before the change because of scoring concerns; the teams scoring went down after Harris was demoted to bench play, but his scoring average didn't decline and it wasn't due to ball-hogging. I don't understand how minutes played factors into who starts and who comes off the bench when it's really a question of fit, chemistry, and production. Which was the better starting duo of forwards, Morris/Leuer or Morris/Harris? IMHO therein lies the root cause of controversy. Facts vs. slick double-talk. My eye test and the opinion of HOF ex-Pistons great, Isiah Lord Thomas lll, is not what I use to make a case against Leuer, but build a case for Harris. You don't bench a player the quality of Harris and make the team better. Leuer is not a defensive stalwart either. The bottom line is, I have little faith in a coach who makes decisions regarding his players that leads to unnecessary controversy.

What stunned me was a comparison made on another basketball site between the Spurs (NBA Champions) Manu Ginobili and the Pistons (Lottery team) Tobias Harris.....Stan Van Gundy ain't no Greg Popovich and that's the rub with team evaluation, and player deployment.

[Sparma]

1) SVG knows that Harris is a better player than Leuer (which I infer partly from what follows).
2) The best five players don't always start. There can be good reason to bring a John Havlicek off the bench, even though he's clearly one of your top 5 players.
3) Harris played significantly more minutes per game than Leuer last season (31.3 to 25.9) and was clearly the more productive player of the two.
4) Eyeballing the numbers (rather than getting out the calculator), it looks like while Harris averaged more minutes per game a couple of seasons but he never totaled as many minutes as he played last season.

Next a factual claim that I'm not quite sure how to check:
5) Neither Harris's minutes nor his points declined when he moved to the bench.

Also, what I regard as a couple of pretty safe predictions:
6) Harris will start at SF this year, whereas the PF will be more of a bone of contention, with Leuer likely doing more sharing of that forward spot than Harris will at his.
7) Barring injury, Harris will earn more minutes than Leuer again this season, reflecting SVG's respective evaluations of the two.

If those statements are true/ probable/ likely to become true, then it's not clear to me why SVG's respective use of Harris and Leuer last season has been a such recurrent point of complaint (by Deus at least).

[deusXango]

If Eric Moreland can start at PF, after playing 11 games in the NBA then great.  If Henry Ellenson can start at PF, after playing 19 games in the NBA then great.  If Stanley Johnson can start at SF after shooting 37% from the floor in the NBA the last 2 seasons then great.  But until I see it with my own eyes, I am skeptical.

And I'm guessing Ricky Rubio's career 38% FG percentage would get old in the D pretty fast.

Murph, you have every reason to be skeptical because I am skeptical that SVG can coach the talent that he's just assembled. Ricky Rubio is easily the smartest, most selfless passer, and defender of the two PG's being discussed and his FG percentage wouldn't look as bad once he started to get the entire team involved in the offense. Tell me, do you feel Reggie is a better prospect at PG than Ricky? I think it would be great if Reggie passed the ball to Harris, Bradley, or any other 3 point shooters on the floor with him early in the shot clock, but I'm skeptical he will.

Tell me Murph, do you feel that Jon Leuer is the best option for the Pistons starting PF? I know SVG sees Leuer as a starter, but many fans and media members don't; enlighten me with a reasonable argument for Leuer starting over players like Ellenson or Moreland, other than they're unknown and as yet, untested commodity's. PF is our weakest link, but we're strong at SF candidates is the reason I'm not for Stanley Johnson starting this year, but I'm all for giving him consistent PT.

[cool breeze]

If Eric Moreland can start at PF, after playing 11 games in the NBA then great.  If Henry Ellenson can start at PF, after playing 19 games in the NBA then great.  If Stanley Johnson can start at SF after shooting 37% from the floor in the NBA the last 2 seasons then great.  But until I see it with my own eyes, I am skeptical.

And I'm guessing Ricky Rubio's career 38% FG percentage would get old in the D pretty fast.

Murph you might be right to be skeptical. But after watching slackers, especially one who makes over $20M/Y fail to put up any resistance in the first and 3rd quarters of almost every game in the last half of the season on defense while being brain dead statues on offense, perhaps some fans are tired of the spin provided by Stan Van Gundy.

Did the exit interview go like this? Oh please Andre will you just be a tiny bit more engaged in the games next season. Tom told me to be aware of your sensitivity relating to criticism and it was my fault that I didn't hook you up with an oxygen knowing that you couldn't breath through your nose before your surgery. Next year just play the way you feel big guy. If you don't feel really great than continue to slack off.

SVG sure is a tough coach for the players who have the largest contracts. Shouldn't the standards be higher instead of lower for the big money players on the Piston team? The bottom line is that some long time Piston fans who watched successful Piston teams know the difference from real committed players to slackers. If this is SVG's last year of employment for the Pistons he should reflect on his action or inaction last season. If he goes out why not go out swinging and be a real coach who can and does make game time adjustments and scrap the 1 in 4 out Andre Drummond offense. The offense is designed to make AD a All Star based on meaningless stats. He is not a natural offensive star. But he could be a defensive star if the coach benched him when he decides to be a slacker. Fans should shout out to Andre whenever they see him with that blank look on his face. His energy clearly shows that he is not engaged for the benefit of his teammates. We know how hard Bill Laimbeer played and the guts Ben Wallace showed as a rim protector for his teammates. Fans want more. And that is why it was suggested that guys like Moreland ( who does know the defensive rotation system and does get to the right spots on the floor and does help his teammates on defense) show off his hard nosed play. Fans are tired of having a soft coach and welcome something different even if the team loses some games until the young guns get their feet wet. We already know AD's game and it is very dull to watch most of the time.  

I didn't proof read this Murph and didn't complete the sentence with the idea that maybe the coach apologized to AD for not providing him with an oxygen tank in the first and third quarters of every game in the last half of the season. Strap him up Stan. Funny but I have been a marathon runner for many years and didn't know that you couldn't breath out of your mouth when playing basketball.

[cool breeze]

If Eric Moreland can start at PF, after playing 11 games in the NBA then great.  If Henry Ellenson can start at PF, after playing 19 games in the NBA then great.  If Stanley Johnson can start at SF after shooting 37% from the floor in the NBA the last 2 seasons then great.  But until I see it with my own eyes, I am skeptical.

And I'm guessing Ricky Rubio's career 38% FG percentage would get old in the D pretty fast.

Murph you might be right to be skeptical. But after watching slackers, especially one who makes over $20M/Y fail to put up any resistance in the first and 3rd quarters of almost every game in the last half of the season on defense while being brain dead statues on offense, perhaps some fans are tired of the spin provided by Stan Van Gundy.

Did the exit interview go like this? Oh please Andre will you just be a tiny bit more engaged in the games next season. Tom told me to be aware of your sensitivity relating to criticism and it was my fault that I didn't hook you up with an oxygen knowing that you couldn't breath through your nose before your surgery. Next year just play the way you feel big guy. If you don't feel really great than continue to slack off.

SVG sure is a tough coach for the players who have the largest contracts. Shouldn't the standards be higher instead of lower for the big money players on the Piston team? The bottom line is that some long time Piston fans who watched successful Piston teams know the difference from real committed players to slackers. If this is SVG's last year of employment for the Pistons he should reflect on his action or inaction last season. If he goes out why not go out swinging and be a real coach who can and does make game time adjustments and scrap the 1 in 4 out Andre Drummond offense. The offense is designed to make AD a All Star based on meaningless stats. He is not a natural offensive star. But he could be a defensive star if the coach benched him when he decides to be a slacker. Fans should shout out to Andre whenever they see him with that blank look on his face. His energy clearly shows that he is not engaged for the benefit of his teammates. We know how hard Bill Laimbeer played and the guts Ben Wallace showed as a rim protector for his teammates. Fans want more. And that is why it was suggested that guys like Moreland ( who does know the defensive rotation system and does get to the right spots on the floor and does help his teammates on defense) show off his hard nosed play. Fans are tired of having a soft coach and welcome something different even if the team loses some games until the young guns get their feet wet. We already know AD's game and it is very dull to watch most of the time.

[Murph]

If Eric Moreland can start at PF, after playing 11 games in the NBA then great. If Henry Ellenson can start at PF, after playing 19 games in the NBA then great. If Stanley Johnson can start at SF after shooting 37% from the floor in the NBA the last 2 seasons then great. But until I see it with my own eyes, I am skeptical.

And I'm guessing Ricky Rubio's career 38% FG percentage would get old in the D pretty fast.

[BallinD]

If we can break the spell SVG has cast over us... If I'm allowed to suggest something ridiculous, how about this, start Eric Moreland at PF, with Drummond (center) and Harris (SF)...this team needs interior defense to balance the perimeter defense we've acquired in Bradley. Give Harris the "green light" to go with our famed P & R, and allow Bradley to get his touches, and we've got all the offense we need, in the starting lineup, but where is that dogged energy, intelligent P & R defense, shot blocking and rim protection in general going to come from, if not from a Moreland? This is my ridiculous starting lineup. No Leuer or Johnson in the starting lineup.

DX, I too have wondered if we can plug Moreland into the lineup to supplement what Dre does not do as a big man and provide some interior D, but worry it would clog the middle without a transcendant PG and Weggie is not that. It is one possible permutation and by all accounts and videos, Moreland would provide the energy, length and aggression we need, assuming Drummond's new magic nose won't elevate his game.

Shooting would be the rub, but Bradley, RJax could offer a 3-ball banquet and we still can sub in and sub out 3pt shooters like Bullock, Kennard, Galloway, if SVG really plans to use his roster effectively. Ellensen needs to get some burn with Kennard and SJ so we can know if we have a young core on the outside pushing in.

I'm kinda from Missouri, along with Lemonpen. Right now we don't know jack about how this thing will come together, or if it will, and don't know if SVG will not revert to Master of Panic status and reprise his role as Stupid Van Gundy. Lottsa questions and why I say this idea has merit as a wait and see.

[deusXango]

"Versatility is great, and nobody on the team is more versatile than Harris (offensively, at least). But it’d be nice if Van Gundy was trying to build a team around Harris’ strengths instead of trying to fit Harris’ diverse skillset into the gaps on a flawed roster."-DBB

If we can break the spell SVG has cast over us, the answer is clear, we have a team that's being built around Jon Leuer! SVG has said on several occasions that he "see Leuer as a starter," in spite of the absence of any supporting evidence; Harris stands in Leuer's way to become the face of the Pistons. Harris, not Morris as many suspected, was replaced by Leuer in the starting lineup and the weak ass excuse given was, "we weren't scoring enough points" when Reggie returned to the starting lineup. No one seemed to notice that we scored less with Leuer as a starter, but Harris remained consistent and productive as he assumed the role Leuer was signed to fill.

Henry Ellenson will always be too weak or defensive deficient or too funky or some such nonsense to be excluded from consideration for the starting PF. The fact that's being hidden from fans at large is Ellenson has a monstrous offensive game (passing, ball handling, post scoring, rebounding) and the only way he'll ever learn the defensive side of the game is by playing it. The elimination from contention by the coach, in favor of installing a personal favorite on a lottery team, is chicken sh!t. Wake the fu@k up SVG!

The magical 3 ball rears its ugly head, conveniently, when a case is to be made against a player, but if a three pointer, energy, and grit is what it takes, Anthony Tolliver, who's at the end of his career, is a better bet to start than Jon Leuer and we all know that's ridiculous, but it makes more sense on a number of levels. If I'm allowed to suggest something ridiculous, how about this, start Eric Moreland at PF, with Drummond (center) and Harris (SF)...this team needs interior defense to balance the perimeter defense we've acquired in Bradley. Give Harris the "green light" to go with our famed P & R, and allow Bradley to get his touches, and we've got all the offense we need, in the starting lineup, but where is that dogged energy, intelligent P & R defense, shot blocking and rim protection in general going to come from, if not from a Moreland? This is my ridiculous starting lineup. No Leuer or Johnson in the starting lineup.

One last unanswered question; why wasn't the Reggie Jackson for Ricky Rubio trade not consummated, and why did SVG kiss Reggie's ass when it was leaked? Everybody and their mama is talking about that knee that's never going to get better (barring a miracle) and even if it does, it's not going to make Reggie play a less selfish game. It just came to mind, what would a backcourt of Rubio and Bradley look like going into this season?

[WTF]

Relocated to AZ a few months back and still getting acclimated and settling in still. I haven't had much time to post and before I part before season end the team sucked to high hogs.

Nothing much has change with the team still a lot of the old forum discussions being rekindle mainly is SVG qualified? Is Reggie enough? Can we win with AD? NO! would be the answer to all three questions.

I had some time on my hands today so I wanted to pop in, miss you guys

[deusXango]

Wise, my man, it's good to see you back on forum, you've been missed by all...hell yeah, I'm speaking for all! Your contributions during this "Summer of Surprise" would certainly have added to the quality of discussions. I'm trusting all has been well for you.

"Independent of Jackson’s health, he can certainly make strides as a passer. After averaging 14.7 assists per 100 possessions after his initial trade to the Pistons in 2015, he’s averaged just 10 per 100 possessions the past two years.

The Pistons were 28th in the league in assist percentage last season at 53 percent, a figure that dropped to 51.2 percent when Jackson stepped on the floor. Jackson wasn’t a boon to ball movement when he was on the floor in previous seasons either, but he’s capable of it. We saw flashes of it in his early days in a Pistons uniform.

Jackson is certainly capable of generating decent looks for himself while attacking the rim. But his willingness to use that ability to generate even better shots for his teammates will do plenty for both his and his team’s effectiveness on offense. And that’s something entirely within his control."-DBB

Did Reggie's ability to see his teammates open leave before his knee went out? A drop off of 4.7 assists per 100 possessions is a sobering statistic for, what some are calling a potential All-Star PG, particularly considering his scoring average didn't reflect any compensation for that drop in team oriented production. This is a bad posture for a ball dominate PG and even if he has a total return to physical health, what will his willingness to be a team first player be like? Will he come out the gate trying to prove he can get to the rim and score? Will proving his scoring average can be what it was two years ago take president over incorporating Bradley, Harris, and Johnson/Leuer in the offense and giving Kennard the opportunity to develop? Will SVG let him get away with that sh!t?

I've taken the shine off your welcome return Wise, but you know how I am...I meant no harm.

[BallinD]

I too am stoked about Kid Kennard, and you're right, he's not a kid. His poise, fluidity and offensive IQ appear to be solid, if not stellar, call me a homer, but I liked this pick and I like it even more now. He gives us the real opportunity, along with Bradley to move the ball in the flow of the offense without having to stand around and watch Weggie try to manufacture a shot.

I don't know what Galloway brings, but I really wanna see a lot of Kennard this year, another test for SVG's rotations and ability to deploy players situationally and use matchups, develop the younguns, especially because we have no idea if we can keep Bradley moving forward.

My question is do I wanna see Tobias SF, Leuer/Ellensen at PF or SJ at SF and Tobias at the 4?

[WTF]

I think I like!

Okay here's are some things I like and I think I'm seeing with this player. I won't dare call him a kid (I like that he's 21 already)

1st I think this guy has some PG skills in him so I would love to see him on the floor with Bradley, next arguably can be considered an actual shooter so Thank God KCP no longer here and SVG can stop forcing that role on to him. Kennard fits unlike KCP.


Kennard seems more Athletic and Quicker offensively than KCP here why or what I think I'm seeing in Kennard that I didn't see with KCP or SJ for that matter. Kennard has form on his shot, his movement seems fluid and effortless, surprisingly he has hops not the greatest but seem to know when and how to attack the rim. I don't see him giving SVG many headaches offensively at least, defensively I can't say for certain but I can already see that Kennard's IQ is light years beyond both KCP and SJ so I wouldn't worry about him to much defensively, because I doubt we'll him blowing coverage assignments.

I like this pick for now.

[WTF]

HELL TO THE NAW!! He's supposed to be a winner (no matter what), but he's not. Unimaginative, slow-witted, stubborn, spineless (what else do you call someone who allows their legacy to be intimidated down the drain by a group of unproven like, Gores, Drummond, and Jackson?), and biased. A master sh!t talker, but sucks as a coach, here and now!

Truer words could not have been written DX, but the most disturbibg one is stubborn SVG believes his **** doesn't stink but a coach really proves his worth when he can coach talent up, when he can make the players on the roster better my utilizng the players natural given talents and skill set. Stubborn is when you consistently try turning them into things they'll likely never become to run a system not designed for them. SVG keep reading his old press clippings as well.

[WTF]

Morris!!!!!!

Not sure how I feel about this move and what it does to the team collectively. IMO Morrs held this team together for what it was worth more than unhinging it.

Hard to be upset with what we got back in return for Morris but not much is going to matter until we address the obvious 2 issues on the roster and that's both AD and Reggie.

[Sparma]

Good to hear from you!

KCP faces an uncertain future. Will LeBron (shared agent) join him in LA? Will he get bumped because LeBron or another big FA's coming to LA? Not how I saw things unfolding.

Well, well.......

So KCP is a Laker on a one year deal at that and I say good for KCP he may get inspired by the Ghost of Kobe Past..... What can't happen is that he does not progress as a player.

It's obvious the Lakers and KCP have doubts on if this pans out or not that's why its only a 1 year deal but kudos to the Pistons for not giving up a max deal to a player that doesn't fit and may never fit.

[WTF]

Well, well.......

So KCP is a Laker on a one year deal at that and I say good for KCP he may get inspired by the Ghost of Kobe Past..... What can't happen is that he does not progress as a player.

It's obvious the Lakers and KCP have doubts on if this pans out or not that's why its only a 1 year deal but kudos to the Pistons for not giving up a max deal to a player that doesn't fit and may never fit.

[deusXango]

HELL TO THE NAW!! He's supposed to be a winner (no matter what), but he's not. Unimaginative, slow-witted, stubborn, spineless (what else do you call someone who allows their legacy to be intimidated down the drain by a group of unproven like, Gores, Drummond, and Jackson?), and biased. A master sh!t talker, but sucks as a coach, here and now!

[Sparma]

lol about Stan's lack of EQ, although maybe I shouldn't be. I agree he reacted badly to the players' meeting. There's something sub-optimal going on with him as a coach, but I'm not sure what it is. He's been a disappointment in that department, for sure. Setting aside the sensitive issue of the possible impact of race (most NBA coaches are white, most players black), I think that SVG being a roly poly guy of minimal basketball achievement as player compared to the guys he's trying to coach can't help. I thought he'd cut back on some of the master of panic stuff, but his residual histrionics can't help. There seems to be a significant communication barrier, even though SVG's an articulate guy.

With you, Ballin, I'm still inclined to think things take a turn for the better this year. And, for reasons I can't really articulate, I think Stan's improved coaching is going to be part of the mix. Surely, it's a good time to learn when things have gotten out of hand and your gig may be about up?

Sparma, I agree that SVG is Smart, Pragmatic, Employs Analytics, and may be a prisoner of his success.  Smart, but stubborn and slow to react to changing conditions, lack of creative fluidity to draw up good plays.

But he is driven.  Driven is good, but when it leads to the other side of the coin, which is yelling and shouting it seems the IQ is better than the EQ or emotional intelligence.

With low EQ, Stan will fit well with the also ran category, because it takes a certain calm in the storm mentality to weather an NBA season and playoff run.  His frenetic frenzy "Master of Panic" drive appears to mitigate what his smarts and drive produce in success.

An example of Smart, but Emotionally Unintelligent (Low EQ) was his handling of the player's only meeting, which he publicly ridiculed.  Equally low EQ was his shoving Reggie back into the lineup to kill a building chemistry and team that was beginning to gel (High EQ would have seen this clearly), which in turn led to the player's only meeting.  Shooting yourself in the foot, Stan.

Reggie's dribbling the air out of the ball? I really doubt SVG liked that. What he liked what having a reliable pick-and-roll the preceding season with Reggie and Dre as the axis, sufficiently dynamic to lead to great improvement and a spot in the playoffs. The other was an unfortunate accompanying characteristic that he was willing to put up with, because of the Reggie/ AD results in 2015-16, and also because he needed to walk on eggshells around those two. I don't see any great inconsistency, even if there some ineffectual coaching. He knows. Yes, he may know, but by walking on eggshells around those two, as you say, he is clearly picking favorites and again displaying low EQ.  That is the true inconsistency.

Perhaps with the grating style and barging himself into a team chemistry issue, and clearly playing favorites, it was inevitable the team would not rally, but slump as the season reached its closing month.  None of his favorites balled out for old SVG.  Nope, the only player who showed any outstanding effort was Boban, poor Boban who SVG refused to play most of the season.

It seemed he lost the team down the stretch, though they played the string out.  Tobias Harris said the issue was "chemistry." which is definitely affected by low EQ behaviors.  I agree he is a better GM than coach, as most of your complementary statements are in the realm of GM activities.

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