The possibilities are endless

[deusXango]

Five lineups, each with their question marks.

1. Traditional: Drum, Harris, Johnson, Bradley, Weggie. Will they play hard, defend hard, pass the ball?  

2. Experimental: Moreland, Harris, Bullock, Kennard, Bradley.   Are Moreland and Kennard ready for prime time?

3. Defense: Moreland, Johnson, Bullock, Bradley, Galloway.  Scrappy.

4. Pace: Leuer,/Ellensen, Ish, Bradley, Johnson, Harris  Push the ball and get buckets.  Can Johnson become a plus rebounder?  

5. Death  Bradley, Kennard, Bullock, Johnson, Harris.  Switchy, moving the ball, cutting and screening.

BallinD, all are thought provoking and worthy of consideration...may I piggy back on your thoughts?
Balance: Drummond, Moreland, Harris, Kennard, Bradley. Moreland and Kennard are ready for prime time; Kennard is the perfect perimeter shooter to play with Harris and Bradley...Moreland is the rim protecting, shot blocking, P & R defender, that will pair well with the NBA's #1 rebounder.Winning cures a whole lot of ills and doubt is the deadliest ill a fan can have! Your positive out-the-box thinking is truly refreshing and a change of pace from the negative grumps (I include myself in that number).Good stuff BallinD.

[BallinD]

Jalen Rose 2 days ago via the Freep:

"Stan Van Gundy is a top-five coach. (He meant bottom-five) Tom Gores is committed to bringing talent in. Now, it's about the players developing. You can't look at the opponent, you can't look at the roster. It's up to the players to work and develop."

Dre fired his shooting coach.  Has said not a word about his defense.  Has no big man coach to speak of.  Possibly resigned to the fact of being the worst FT shooter the league has ever seen.  Maybe he lost 20 pounds?  In the Africa game he shot threes, but did he block shots or rotate on D?

Weggie likes Bradley, thinks that will help him be a better PG.  Can he learn to pass and not be that NBA PG with the worst defensive rating and who holds the ball the longest before passing? Will he ever opt for passing over dribbling/probing? "It's up to the players to develop?"  We're treading on thin ice here folks

[cool breeze]

Ellenson is the player I am mentioning here that has been in the freezer maybe due to situations in the summer league when he didn't look so hot on the defensive end. His offense was very good in summer league play. He has potential to be a high percentage shooter beyond the 3 point line. He made key shots in those summer league games too. But I was a bit disappointed that he was so up and down when playing defense. Yet what is his competition at the power forward spot if the Pistons go up against bigger lineups. It seems clear that SVG is going to use Stanley Johnson at times to defend power forwards. The big question with Johnson next season will be how the officials will treat him. Can he stay out of foul trouble yet still play strong in your face defense?

SVG mentioned that Henry had earned consideration for a rotation spot after the summer league games ended. Maybe Ellenson can look better on defense when he plays with the current roster players instead of summer league guys. It could be that Boban will not not work out because of his problems on defense or perhaps because of his body type, he will go down with an injury. That leaves Leuer for Ellenson to beat out. Leuer was perhaps as bad or worse than Drummond on defense last season. Unless Leuer has become much stronger in the upper body, I doubt SVG will trust him much. Meanwhile, Ellenson is a gamer. He has a pretty strong body and if he learns to use in in the paint, maybe Henry will be a breakout player this year. He might fit in at times playing both center and power forward. A lot of jobs are up for grabs this season. Nobody gets a pass. We need two young players or perhaps even three who somehow break out of the fringe and become solid everyday players the team can count on. Who will it be?

Johnson - high percentage chance if he avoids the injury bug

Bullock - high percentage chance he has more luck avoiding injury and shoots the long ball well. Reggie can play some good D too.

Ellenson - If he gets an opportunity for regular minutes I see Henry as a key player off the bench by March. Henry needs no special pampering to get his emotions running at a high level. He is engaged. It is just a matter of getting regular minutes and adjusting to the speed of play of NBA regular season games. There is no doubt that he can score the ball. So I say if given a chance Henry is our secret weapon late in the season.

Galloway - Watch this guy. SVG has wanted him now for a long time. He plays extremely hard on defense. He shares the ball on offense. He has size. Is there a chance that this will be a huge season for Galloway now that he has a coach who loves the way he plays? Galloway might be that guy we are all talking about in a positive way at the end of the season. What is there not to like after we have watched point guards for so long who dominate the basketball? And keep this in mind when thinking of Washington. Galloway can provide something that Jackson and Smith cannot provide when the Pistons play this team. He is bigger, stronger and loves playing tough defense. I cannot imagine that he won't play a lot of minutes against this team and others who have bigger guards.

Tolliver - Did any of you read some of the tweets from Tolliver last season. It was as if he never left the Pistons. He was thinking Piston power even though he was on another team. Tolliver might just win a few games for us because he can get hot as hell at times with that 3 point shot.

Kennard - I fully expect Luke to win a spot in the rotation sooner or later this season. He is just too smart and talented offensively to sit the bench or play in the D-League. Not going to happen.

Leuer - He played himself into being a fringe player. Perhaps SVG will showcase him early this season so he can include him in a trade. Although I was greatly disappointed in his defense not to mention the fact that he lost his touch from distance with his 3 ball, who knows what he has been doing to improve his game? I will not count him out.

Mentioning the players above indicates that there is going to be a fight in training camp like we have not had in a long time. More dedicated and talented players who like playing basketball the right way can only make the club better. We now have more two way players instead of specialists. The coach will need to do some soul searching and make hard decisions not based on the size of contracts relating to who gets the playing time. The owner needs to stay out of SVG's way and work on the half time entertainment. Maybe the Big D will return to Detroit and opponents will no longer look forward to visiting the home of the Pistons. The Pistons still do not have the top offensive talent so DEFENSE must be way up there near the top if this team can expect to win big.

[BallinD]

Five lineups, each with their question marks.

1. Traditional: Drum, Harris, Johnson, Bradley, Weggie. Will they play hard, defend hard, pass the ball?  

2. Experimental: Moreland, Harris, Bullock, Kennard, Bradley.   Are Moreland and Kennard ready for prime time?

3. Defense: Moreland, Johnson, Bullock, Bradley, Galloway.  Scrappy.

4. Pace: Leuer,/Ellensen, Ish, Bradley, Johnson, Harris  Push the ball and get buckets.  Can Johnson become a plus rebounder?  

5. Death  Bradley, Kennard, Bullock, Johnson, Harris.  Switchy, moving the ball, cutting and screening.

[Oracle]

I am less worried about Reggie adapting a new mindset than I am relating to AD. He has never in his life been a coachable player. His coaches wanted him in the past to make a better effort to learn how to play defense and then make the extreme effort needed to be successful at playing defense. Being that he has resisted playing the right way for so long it might be impossible for him to give SVG what he has now demanded from AD. I really like the fact that Stan Van Gundy finally has obtained a set of balls as the Pistons coach. He keeps repeating what he expects from AD as a rim protector, shot blocker and fierce defensive rebounder in deciding moments of regular season games. Now the media has identified AD as the weak link on the Piston team so the pressure is on our big center to start acting like an adult and come to the games prepared with his game face on instead of the happy go lucky smiles he provides with his dancing routine before the games begin. Who in hell ever gave him that idea in the first place? Why would a guy making over $20 million dollars not take his job seriously? He was never prepared to play last season. He left everything to chance which is the opposite of how Avery Bradley thinks. Players not coaches need to lead in the NBA for the team to have success. Bradley is the only player on this team that has a chance to do that. He will get help from players like Tolliver, Galloway, Harris, Johnson and even guys like Kennardand Ellenson. Notice that Ellenson has spoken to the press recently about how tired he is of being on a losing team. He wants to win. And is is still a fringe player. That is good Oracle. There is a new mindset much different from the team led by Drummond and an injured Jackson. Players will not look to themselves to give more to the team and model players who never take a play off like Avery Bradley. 

The Pistons have the potential of becoming the surprise team in the NBA this season. I like the roster but wish Gores had not voided potential trades involving Drummond that SVG cooked up. It would have been sweet to have snagged Jordan from the Clippers. That is the type of player AD needs to become but I just don't believe you can change a piece of fruit into a vegetable. SVG cannot field a good defensive team with Boban either. The only guy left is Moreland who will need to turn himself into Ben Wallace in training camp and out work his competition so clearly that the coach will have to place him in the rotation. Moreland was a shot blocker, rim protector and helper on defense when I watched him play in college. Can he up his game now and hit a home run out of the park to provide the Pistons what they really need that AD most likely will resist giving?? If AD doesn't provide what the coach demands this time around, he will be long gone by the trade deadline. Some other team might want him to secure those meaningless rebounds that build his stat profile. GO PISTONS!

I totally agree about Reggie, my only concern with him is his health, but if he's back to normal, he hides a lot of Andre's issues.

I too like the roster and have the same feeling that we could be a surprise team this season! If Reggie is back, the difference between being playoff fodder and being special is if Andre takes a step up in his defense and limits his ISO game to ZERO!

My only concern about the roster is size, we've gotten smaller, but we have good size where it counts if SVG decides to use his bench wisely.

BTW, the stats on the players we have to shoot the 3 ball looks amazing on paper. I'm cautiously excited about that, but for whatever reason, everyone that shoots the 3 well elsewhere, gets worse in SVG's offense. Let's hope that turns around this year.

[cool breeze]

Sparma, I agree with your option 4, on the fact that it exists and that any improvement would likely not be that big.

Don, you seem to believe a lot of things about Bradly that I find hard to understand. Do you really think a player, new to a team is going to start calling out players that have been here for some time? That crap will go over like a lead balloon! You also seem to think that Bradley will set SVG straight and make him call different plays. I seriously can't follow any of this logic.

Wise, I agree, the first idiot to call a team meeting to crap on someone is likely out on his arse, lol.


On the schedule, those away games depend on who they're playing. This team is slightly LESS talented than last season unless somebody steps up that didn't last year.

I say this because even if Bradly gives us slightly more than we got out of KCP, he can't possibly make up for both KCP & Morris, which means we need to get more from somewhere else.

That could come from Reggie & Drummond playing better, Stanley getting better or Leuer surprising us, but it has to come from somewhere.

The bottom line is that if we're playing the way we should, we'll win those away games at close to a .400 clip, which should get us to the playoffs, if not, there's real trouble in River City!

Oracle when the key players in the past are Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond who will stand in Bradley's way? Johnson, Harris, Galloway, Tolliver, Bullock, Kennard, Moreland, Boban, Smith, and Ellenson will have Bradley's back not Drummond or Jackson. The players who were playing for Detroit last season attended the players only meeting and do remember how Andre Drummond broke protocol by telling his coach and the press what had happened in the meeting. The players received a scolding from SVG who got his orders from Andre Drummond's step Father, Tom Gores. No more players only meetings were allowed. I have never in my life heard of that happening in my entire life. Andre Drummond lost any type of respect he might have had after that. In my opinion that had as much as anything to do with the horrible team chemistry that followed. And SVG played a big part in this but I really think he was forced to respond because of the owner's protective nature with his franchise player. The coach is supposed to say, the players held a players only meeting to sort things out. They have a right to do that and that is how a team bonds and gets better. He should have called out Andre Drummond for breaking that trust where what was said stays in the locker room.

If Bradley doesn't step forward and become the team leader it will mean that he is only planning to be here one season and is just playing out his contract. I don't think that will happen. Bradley wants to prove that he is a star two way player. He would have made the All NBA defensive team again last season if he hadn't been out so long with an injury. But he sure showed how good he is in the playoffs.

KCP and Avery Bradley are completely different relating to their personalities and the way they play. Bradley talks like a coach. He has an exceptionally high basketball IQ and can talk basketball like a coach. That is why if SVG goes off course again, I think Bradley will be the type of player who will have a lot of talks with the coach in a positive way of course. He will not be afraid of calling out SVG if he plays AD if AD is sleep walking on the hardwood like last season. And I think Tom Gores learned a big lesson from last season and will not play the role of protector of AD and might change his phone number this season so AD cannot cry on his shoulder. I doubt he will call SVG late at night and tell him to have the shooting coach stay away from AD for instance.

This team needs a battle cry that doesn't involve prissy dancing before the game. Bradley is a tough hard nosed player who is used to winning. He is a natural leader so I suspect when the players get tired in training camp, Bradley will be the guy who leads the team by example. He is used to doing that. He did it in college and was a leader last season as all Boston fans know and now feel sick that they have lost him. KCP never showed any leadership skills. He is quiet and does not have the vocabulary of Bradley. Bradley leaves nothing to chance with his conditioning and has developed a sound defensive and offensive skill set that his teammates will admire and respect. That will be enough to make him a trusted leader for the team. That means that the click has to end between Reggie and Andre which was so harmful to the team in the past. It was all about Reggie and Andre getting their touches and walking off the court arm in arm. Now both of those players need to try to blend in and become role players. This is not Reggie's team and it is not Andre's team. They had their chance and proved that they are not leaders. There is good reason why fans and players at Oklahoma were very happy to see Reggie go to the Pistons. SVG cannot allow Reggie and Andre to sabotage the team chemistry. If both players want to be part of a real team they will have to buy in to what the team needs are and provide that need. Reggie needs to be Reggie at times at the end of games. He is always an offensive threat when healthy. But if he is consuming playing time, he has to bring a better brand of defense to compliment what SVG wants to create this season. SVG wants the Pistons to be among the top defensive units in the NBA this season. Reggie needs to get deflections with those long arms. He has to move his quick feet. And he is capable of providing great defense if he dedicates himself to doing it like Bradley and Johnson will do. I hope Reggie becomes a more team orientated player but if he doesn't I do think that Galloway will steal minutes from both Jackson and Smith because of Galloway's ability to defend.

I am less worried about Reggie adapting a new mindset than I am relating to AD. He has never in his life been a coachable player. His coaches wanted him in the past to make a better effort to learn how to play defense and then make the extreme effort needed to be successful at playing defense. Being that he has resisted playing the right way for so long it might be impossible for him to give SVG what he has now demanded from AD. I really like the fact that Stan Van Gundy finally has obtained a set of balls as the Pistons coach. He keeps repeating what he expects from AD as a rim protector, shot blocker and fierce defensive rebounder in deciding moments of regular season games. Now the media has identified AD as the weak link on the Piston team so the pressure is on our big center to start acting like an adult and come to the games prepared with his game face on instead of the happy go lucky smiles he provides with his dancing routine before the games begin. Who in hell ever gave him that idea in the first place? Why would a guy making over $20 million dollars not take his job seriously? He was never prepared to play last season. He left everything to chance which is the opposite of how Avery Bradley thinks. Players not coaches need to lead in the NBA for the team to have success. Bradley is the only player on this team that has a chance to do that. He will get help from players like Tolliver, Galloway, Harris, Johnson and even guys like Kennard and Ellenson. Notice that Ellenson has spoken to the press recently about how tired he is of being on a losing team. He wants to win. And is is still a fringe player. That is good Oracle. There is a new mindset much different from the team led by Drummond and an injured Jackson. Players will not look to themselves to give more to the team and model players who never take a play off like Avery Bradley.

The Pistons have the potential of becoming the surprise team in the NBA this season. I like the roster but wish Gores had not voided potential trades involving Drummond that SVG cooked up. It would have been sweet to have snagged Jordan from the Clippers. That is the type of player AD needs to become but I just don't believe you can change a piece of fruit into a vegetable. SVG cannot field a good defensive team with Boban either. The only guy left is Moreland who will need to turn himself into Ben Wallace in training camp and out work his competition so clearly that the coach will have to place him in the rotation. Moreland was a shot blocker, rim protector and helper on defense when I watched him play in college. Can he up his game now and hit a home run out of the park to provide the Pistons what they really need that AD most likely will resist giving?? If AD doesn't provide what the coach demands this time around, he will be long gone by the trade deadline. Some other team might want him to secure those meaningless rebounds that build his stat profile. GO PISTONS!

[Oracle]

That yet another player is the KEY to a successful season... I'm going to projectile vomit!!!

[Oracle]

If AD is selected by the coach ( or should I say owner ) as the team leader will the battle cry be Watch Me Dance? Piston media could hype the idea of getting to the arena early before tip off so they can watch the pre game dancing action by our star franchise player who is brain dead when he plays basketball. Got to stay positive. Fans only want entertainment anyway and Tom Gores is the champion of providing great half time entertainment. He just forgot that his team plays basketball.

LOL!

But Don, he does remember his team plays basketball, what circus would be complete without Clowns 

[cool breeze]

How is it you can be called the face of the franchise/franchise player/leader and be absence.   Just thinking this morning how we would have full dose of Zeke all year round in the media but it just wasn't our Franchise PG it was basically the entire team with the exception of Quiet Joe but we were cool with that. We identified with that because we knew these are the Bad Boys.

We can argue who was the Face of the franchise is it CB or is it Big Ben. What we can say is that this "Goin To Work" team had multiple leaders and spoke-person because they weren't shy about expressing matters of the team.  CB, Big Ben, Rip, Sheed, Prince, and even Hunter stayed in the media.

Where's the leadership now? Where the face of the franchise? This team doesn't even have a signature moniker like Bad Boy, or a Mission Statement or Battle Cry like "Goin To Work".   Oh they've been called plenty of names most of them not suitable for public usage our alleged franchise player be real quiet and so has our alleged court leader.

If AD is selected by the coach ( or should I say owner ) as the team leader will the battle cry be Watch Me Dance? Piston media could hype the idea of getting to the arena early before tip off so they can watch the pre game dancing action by our star franchise player who is brain dead when he plays basketball. Got to stay positive. Fans only want entertainment anyway and Tom Gores is the champion of providing great half time entertainment. He just forgot that his team plays basketball.

[WTF]

How is it you can be called the face of the franchise/franchise player/leader and be absence. Just thinking this morning how we would have full dose of Zeke all year round in the media but it just wasn't our Franchise PG it was basically the entire team with the exception of Quiet Joe but we were cool with that. We identified with that because we knew these are the Bad Boys.

We can argue who was the Face of the franchise is it CB or is it Big Ben. What we can say is that this "Goin To Work" team had multiple leaders and spoke-person because they weren't shy about expressing matters of the team. CB, Big Ben, Rip, Sheed, Prince, and even Hunter stayed in the media.

Where's the leadership now? Where the face of the franchise? This team doesn't even have a signature moniker like Bad Boy, or a Mission Statement or Battle Cry like "Goin To Work". Oh they've been called plenty of names most of them not suitable for public usage our alleged franchise player be real quiet and so has our alleged court leader.

[Oracle]

Sparma, I agree with your option 4, on the fact that it exists and that any improvement would likely not be that big.

Don, you seem to believe a lot of things about Bradly that I find hard to understand. Do you really think a player, new to a team is going to start calling out players that have been here for some time? That crap will go over like a lead balloon! You also seem to think that Bradley will set SVG straight and make him call different plays. I seriously can't follow any of this logic.

Wise, I agree, the first idiot to call a team meeting to crap on someone is likely out on his arse, lol.


On the schedule, those away games depend on who they're playing. This team is slightly LESS talented than last season unless somebody steps up that didn't last year.

I say this because even if Bradly gives us slightly more than we got out of KCP, he can't possibly make up for both KCP & Morris, which means we need to get more from somewhere else.

That could come from Reggie & Drummond playing better, Stanley getting better or Leuer surprising us, but it has to come from somewhere.

The bottom line is that if we're playing the way we should, we'll win those away games at close to a .400 clip, which should get us to the playoffs, if not, there's real trouble in River City!

[WTF]

When I started looking at the schedule more closely I could see why some say the team won't make the playoffs. We have the talent to be good but the if's are just too big to ignore.

Reggie not going to change and Andre is about as good as he's going to be I almost can say this in all certainty that I'm right. Neither have any real interest in changing and I don't think SVG is able to convince too. It seem everyone outside of Detroit can see it, a handful of us can see it, but it some that just won't accept what they're seeing.

If this team is going to have any real success Reggie will be gone before the season start and Andre will receive the tough love from SVG he needs.

[WTF]

I hope Avery Bradley calls for a players only team meeting once a week this season and see if the puppet coach can do anything about it even though the owner will be breathing down his neck after those late night sob stories he hears from our franchise player. You can't make this stuff up. People in the real world are actually working their butts off for chump change and they read that Andre was upset after the players only meeting last year. Who can relate to that? and who would want to watch the big franchise center after those comments?

Josh tried it and we see how that turned out, Morris did it last season and he got traded this summer so I'm not sure if Bradley will fair any better than those 2 did.

When Josh did it Moose whined like a big baby and Andre was right there with Moose. Josh did what he thought needed to be done said what needed to be said. Not only did he do it behind closed door he went as far to blast them in the media but the first thing fans did was call him a chemistry killer Josh seen the potential of Joe's version of the Big Three working and knew that Moose and Andre needed to get on board and needed to work as hard as he did and fans got mad because he hurt the babies feelings.

Morris does it and it's the same thing he's called a chemistry killer, why because he's watching a guy making 23 million a season half ass while he bust his ass for slightly above the player minimum. But I don't think it was just Morris, I think KCP, Harris and Ish all had something to say about Andre effort as franchise player and Reggie ball hogging.

The Bad Boys had player meetings all the time, even when things were going well. All they talked about was winning, they dreamed about winning, thought about all day everyday, during games, after games, before games, in their sleep, on the toilet, on Round Ball One. Can you even look at this current team and imagine them talking like this.

How screwed up is Andre thinking? Well he won't get mad about losing games, but he'll certainly act an ass about being yanked. He don't get mad when those tiny guards run through him like butter, but he'll cry like a bitch when player like Morris calls him out. Fu@k Andre

I said it back then and I'll say it again Andre is just like Moose perhaps worse. But I bet now Moose wish he was more receptive to the things Josh said, I bet he wish he played harder and perfected that mid range shot. Andre is just beside himself if and don't respect the game.

[cool breeze]

October:  5 away games 3 and at home and mini trip out west.  They could finish the month 2-6

November: 5 away games and 7 at home.  It not going to be a cake walk best we could hope for is they finish 6-6.  The telling story for this month is that 8 games are against conference rivals.  Be careful about how close or how far you think Indy has falling or if Miami improved but the Pistons aren't on their A game sooner rather than later November might be a 4-8  

December: 8 away games and 7 at home.  I honestly say I could see the Pistons managing only 1 away game so it will be important that they handle their business at home and be pumped at that new arena.  But that mean they need to beat Boston, SA and GS in the process of winning at home.  In a perfect world and not the world of SVG, Andre and Reggie one could think that those would be the only 3 losses the team would see during December and come out of it at worst 11-4.  The only reason why I said they'll win only 1 away game is that the coach is stupid they could go 4-11

January: Happy New!!!!! 7 away games and 7 at home. Before this month is out we could be screaming for everyone's head starting with SVG. This team could be 10-25 heading into the New Year and anything is possible so I'll say at worse they'll split and finish the month 7-7 but even then they won't keep the crowds of unhappy fans back.  Somehow this month will need to be a statement month and they will need to 3 extra wins from out their collective asses and finish 10-4::tb: .

February: 3 away games and 9 at home.  Call this there last chance because this month should be a cake walk and they should honestly finish it out 9-3 but if they don't fire SVG immediately

March Teams are scrapping for 1 of 2 things and that a playoff berth or a lottery pick.  If it goes how I'm projecting it to then the Pistons are a shade under .500 or they screwed their season back in December.   This month will be hard, they won't have time to rest or practice they a pretty much playing every other day and this time 9 away games 6 straight on the road out west  

April: No Comment a repeat of last season  

Great job on this post. The devil is in the details and when December comes around that has always been the time period when AD starts celebrating Christmas on the first day of the month and is AWOL mentally until the first day of March. December is as you pointed out a key month for the Pistons. If things are going bad will the coach ( if he has not already been fired ) finally summon the courage to take Andre out of the starting lineup and let him come off the bench in certain situations? Will Kennard, Ellenson have spent all of their time either in the D-League or on the bench or will they be rotation players when December arrives? Will Avery Bradley take over the starting point guard position from AD's best buddy, RJ? The one consolation prize for fans can stay positive about is that if the team is losing with RJ and AD, the nonsense will finally end and the owner will have to settle for giving a lot of cash and accepting 2nd round picks for both players with a bunch of expiring contracts. If both players show off their defects again along with providing minimum energy as they did last season, the owner will regret nixing the trades that SVG wanted to make this summer. SVG might no longer be a good strategy coach relating to his lame offensive style last season, but he is no fool. There is no way that he didn't want a new point guard or starting center after last season's horror show. All the rumors point to Tom Gores saying no to those trade options involving his son AD. Oh I know it is tough out there playing night after night Andre, but feel free to cry on my shoulder anytime. How many times did he say that last season and what was the result after all the baby talk?

I hope Avery Bradley calls for a players only team meeting once a week this season and see if the puppet coach can do anything about it even though the owner will be breathing down his neck after those late night sob stories he hears from our franchise player. You can't make this stuff up. People in the real world are actually working their butts off for chump change and they read that Andre was upset after the players only meeting last year. Who can relate to that? and who would want to watch the big franchise center after those comments?

[WTF]

October:  5 away games 3 and at home and mini trip out west.  They could finish the month 2-6

November: 5 away games and 7 at home.  It not going to be a cake walk best we could hope for is they finish 6-6.  The telling story for this month is that 8 games are against conference rivals.  Be careful about how close or how far you think Indy has falling or if Miami improved but the Pistons aren't on their A game sooner rather than later November might be a 4-8  

December: 8 away games and 7 at home.  I honestly say I could see the Pistons managing only 1 away game so it will be important that they handle their business at home and be pumped at that new arena.  But that mean they need to beat Boston, SA and GS in the process of winning at home.  In a perfect world and not the world of SVG, Andre and Reggie one could think that those would be the only 3 losses the team would see during December and come out of it at worst 11-4.  The only reason why I said they'll win only 1 away game is that the coach is stupid they could go 4-11

January: Happy New!!!!! 7 away games and 7 at home. Before this month is out we could be screaming for everyone's head starting with SVG. This team could be 10-25 heading into the New Year and anything is possible so I'll say at worse they'll split and finish the month 7-7 but even then they won't keep the crowds of unhappy fans back.  Somehow this month will need to be a statement month and they will need to 3 extra wins from out their collective asses and finish 10-4::tb: .

February: 3 away games and 9 at home.  Call this there last chance because this month should be a cake walk and they should honestly finish it out 9-3 but if they don't fire SVG immediately

March Teams are scrapping for 1 of 2 things and that a playoff berth or a lottery pick.  If it goes how I'm projecting it to then the Pistons are a shade under .500 or they screwed their season back in December.   This month will be hard, they won't have time to rest or practice they a pretty much playing every other day and this time 9 away games 6 straight on the road out west  

April: No Comment a repeat of last season  

[BallinD]

Dre hasn't peaked yet. He has that 20-foot hook shot to perfect, and a buncha dance routines to master.

[WTF]

Andre IMO has peaked he's not going to get better not because he can't physically but mentally he's not capable or better yet willing. Is this tear numbers 6?. I have not seen the progression from season to season from him they would normally occur in any players. We saw KCP progress from season to season though his shortcoming was more about how he was used and not maximizing his skill set was clearly on coaching.

Andre issues are beyond coaching and mainly self inflicted because he's naturally gifted athletically, but it's like he doesn't get it. Even Lebron had to progress as a player, so did MJ, and Kobe . It was probably more difficult for both Kobe and Bron coming straight of HS so it's hard to not see Andre at Big Man Camp's in the off season, or hiring his own shooting coach. It's far too many options for Andre and he doesn't take advantage of them, I'm sure Big Ben and Sheed would be more than happy to spend the summer with him or any other former Pistons player for that matter.

I really think this kid has peaked

[Sparma]

I'm inclined to think AD will become a bit better in a number of respects. That's more optimistic than your option #3, Oracle, as I understand it ("He's not likely to be anything more than he is right now") but not by much. He's already a better FT shooter than he was coming into the league (granted, that was an incredibly low bar). He should improve his defensive positioning as experience piles up, but he'll never be a Ben Wallace. I'm guessing his overall offensive game, which he emphasizes so much, will improve some. On the other hand, his athleticism stands to decline with age, but then maybe his positioning, especially for defensive rebounding, gets better to compensate for some of that? I see some growth ahead, but not a ton. I wouldn't be surprised if that were enough to land him back in an All-Star game or two.

If that happens, maybe we should just celebrate him, accepting shortcomings?

Outrageous as it might sound, much more improvement than what I'm predicting for him (eg he really steps it up on D, catching on to positioning and blocking quite a bit more, and develops into a contributing offensive player, including hitting FTs at a 50-60% rate), if accompanied by success of his team(s), could suffice to get him into HOF conversations. Doesn't seem likely to me, but maybe?

One former neighbor, friend and former head college and NBA coach as well as a former assistant coach for the Pistons once said, players and especially big men who come into the league from college as good defenders or have a well rounded skill set on offense will easily become above average defenders and offensive stars. Those who come into the league as weak fundamentally unsound defenders or have no skill set as offensive players will always struggle to figure things out in the NBA. 

This has been what I've observed as well, and it's what scares me most about Drummond!

I want to believe that he will get it, but after this many years, it's getting increasingly harder to have faith.

IMO, if it doesn't happen this year, one of three things are possible

1. He's in the wrong place with the wrong coaches
2. He needs more time, or
3. He's not likely to be anything more than he is right now

Two of the 3 are bad, IMO.

[WTF]

This is why a hate numbers beyond simple stats and tends to screw up things for most NBA teams and have Coaches, Fans, and Media Talking Heads over thinking the obvious. These are a list of things that have us all screwed up.


POTENTIAL: Yes we toss on our Rose Colored Glasses and start seeing things before it every happens and doing so by dismissing all the flaws and projecting a player will eventually obtain basic fundamental talents they should already have.

STATS: Not hard to argue numbers if it was just that simple but some fans tend to look at 20pts and 10rebs and immediately think I want that for my team. All they see are the numbers without fully understand the game never asking how did those stats come about, was it successful for the team, did it come in crunch time.

ANALYTICS: Are the worst of all because IMO it ignores all the intangibles and start cramming numbers down our throats in how we need to assess a players ability to play either defense our offense. They feed us these numbers when a simple eye test can do the trick. You can't go this deep into assessing one player in a team sport. You don't need numbers to see chemistry, effort and commitment.

TRENDING: We easily fall for the next best thing then allow the talking heads to tell us what traditionally work doesn't work anymore. I call BS on this because before Miami, Cavs, and now GS every won titles Chicago, Boston, Detroit, LA and San Antoine still defined what Championship Teams suppose to look like. Who decided that traditional roster were a thing of the past and could no longer work in today's NBA.

PLUS/MINUS: Is just as bad as analytics maybe even worse . I might be wrong but I think I once saw a whole tem in the minus and yet they won the game somehow and if it wasn't the whole team it was damn close. Be careful with this data or any data really data can be made to say anything.

I don't always look at the numbers

[Oracle]

One former neighbor, friend and former head college and NBA coach as well as a former assistant coach for the Pistons once said, players and especially big men who come into the league from college as good defenders or have a well rounded skill set on offense will easily become above average defenders and offensive stars. Those who come into the league as weak fundamentally unsound defenders or have no skill set as offensive players will always struggle to figure things out in the NBA. 

This has been what I've observed as well, and it's what scares me most about Drummond!

I want to believe that he will get it, but after this many years, it's getting increasingly harder to have faith.

IMO, if it doesn't happen this year, one of three things are possible

1. He's in the wrong place with the wrong coaches
2. He needs more time, or
3. He's not likely to be anything more than he is right now

Two of the 3 are bad, IMO.

[cool breeze]

WTF is right that Drummond should be coming off the bench. SVG tried to trade Drummond for D. Jordan with the Clippers. They turned the Pistons down. Who really wants to take on Andre's contract being that is is not a coachable player and has never been interested to doing anything other than what he wants to do as a player. We need a shot blocker, paint protector and a player who can get key rebounds on the defensive end in crunch time. Drummond cannot yet play in crunch time. Will he ever be capable enough to play in crunch time. If Detroit cannot obtain a competent center this season they need to develop Moreland.

One former neighbor, friend and former head college and NBA coach as well as a former assistant coach for the Pistons once said, players and especially big men who come into the league from college as good defenders or have a well rounded skill set on offense will easily become above average defenders and offensive stars. Those who come into the league as weak fundamentally unsound defenders or have no skill set as offensive players will always struggle to figure things out in the NBA. That guy was Kevin O'Neill who is a close friend of the head coach of Dallas. As a high school coach myself, it was always the centers and power forwards who were not predictable relating to bringing the right amount of concentration and energy from game to game. You never knew what to expect except for the rare center or power forward who just had the right stuff. The NBA is full of star players. Everyone is looking for an edge or weakness in opponent players. Every big man has figured out Andre Drummond and they know his weaknesses. Most players really work on their weaknesses and try hard to eliminate them. If I were AD I would have found the best former star NBA big man and hired that guy from day one to help me eliminate my weaknesses. To have that mindset you have to be a coachable player. AD has a long history of being in the category of the thousands of players who cannot identify what they need to change and go out and put in the work to do it. It is rare for any big man who has the flaws of Andre Drummond to ever change who he is as a basketball player. AD seems to start out in training camp wanting to do the right thing for his team. Then as the season progresses he falls into a funk and falls back into his old bad habits that he developed as a kid. He got excited about dunking the ball as a kid and never expanded his game. To bad and so sad but that is the way it is for players like AD. We all know what AD can do and what he can't do. Does the owner know that? The owner is the person who might have prevented AD from developing last season by comforting him with the late night phone calls when SVG would get in his face. Now it seems that the fans are against the coach instead of focusing on the player who actually plays the game. The coach can only do so much if the owner plays the Mother role as protector.

So what can be done now that we all know that AD has very limited trade value and takes up a huge chunk of the payroll? WTF, Oracle, and others including me believe that the coach must come up with a special defense to hide Drummond and use his athletic ability to make an impact on defense. Whatever SVG decides he cannot come back with the same type of defensive rotation system. He will need to simplify everything for AD to be effective. The new system must employ something that limits the need for AD to think on the court. He is too slow mentally to know what to do on pick and roll plays. He switches onto ball carriers (guards) out high when his teammate guard is in perfect position after getting over the high screen. The coach must demand that AD not switch off his man. AD must roll with his man to prevent the easy layup. That takes effort which in the past AD has tried hard to avoid. It seems once opponents sucker AD into wandering away from the painted area AD loses focus. Hopefully, SVG has something in mind to throw at opponents that will not take too much thinking on AD's part. Keep things simple and allow Drummond to use his quickness to react better for shot blocking purposes. And of course he needs to remember to box his man out. Why he can't think to do that is a real mystery. We are stuck with AD for now. It appears he has become more fit and wants to give a better effort this coming season. So much depends on a player who is not dependable.

That reminds me of Reggie Jackson when he plays defense. How can SVG hide both players on defense????? The owner needs to keep his nose out of coaching or mentoring his players. The coaches have their work cut out for them big time. But the coaches have less problems with the other players on the roster this year. Those new players will take the team on a new more effective course. But the coaches will need to deal with AD and RJ so they don't screw up the works.

[Oracle]

The over/ under for the Pistons is 38.5 according to a Vegas line (per PP).  I must be becoming an optimist  because I'm confident that's low.  Not by a ton maybe.  I need to think about how much over I'm going by the beginning of the season, but I definitely like the Pistons' odds more than Vegas does.

38.5 wins would represent a horrible season for the Pistons!

50 wins is what should be expected out of this club with the east being so weak.

However factoring a few SVG brain farts into the equation, I think I'm settling into my usual 45 wins, but that is subject to change based on preseason 

[Oracle]

WTF is right that Drummond should be coming off the bench. SVG tried to trade Drummond for D. Jordan with the Clippers. They turned the Pistons down. Who really wants to take on Andre's contract being that is is not a coachable player and has never been interested to doing anything other than what he wants to do as a player. We need a shot blocker, paint protector and a player who can get key rebounds on the defensive end in crunch time. Drummond cannot yet play in crunch time. Will he ever be capable enough to play in crunch time. If Detroit cannot obtain a competent center this season they need to develop Moreland.

Don, Andre has his issues, and I like Moreland, but that really was Summer League!

If he was as good as you're SPINNING, he would have been playing somewhere else. Kicking summer league arse isn't the same as kicking NBA arse.

Wise made a good point about him coming off the bench, but we all know that isn't going to happen as long as Gores is the owner of this team.

But if Andre isn't cutting the mustard by the deadline, I agree, we need to be looking at how to move him.

Remember we also need to see how Boban plays.

[Oracle]

For some reason you have the need to put Bradley down and I am not sure why. I know you think that KCP is a better option and I think you are really wrong about that. Did you actually watch the playoffs and follow Boston in all of their series?

The fact of the matter is that you'll see an article like that and NEVER report it... Why?

There have been several articles about Bradley's defense and you failed to respond about any of them. The real question is why do you blow smoke up Bradley but never tell the truth?

News Flash: I didn't write the article Don, and if you have trouble reading, I report BOTH the good and bad about EVERYBODY, I'm not selective like you are.

It's your continued player hate and bias that doesn't allow you to see beyond simple thoughts.

FYI: I don't think KCP is the better option for THIS year, wake up, Bradley has the better all around numbers. However, If I'm building for the future, Bradley is one of the LAST guys I'd pick as my future SG, so yes, KCP is the better future choice.

But it's a moot point, because KCP was done with the Pistons and didn't want to come back because SVG is so bad as a coach, GM and person of his word. Harris, Reggie & Drummond want to escape SVG as well, and likely will if given a chance.

[cool breeze]

WTF is right that Drummond should be coming off the bench. SVG tried to trade Drummond for D. Jordan with the Clippers. They turned the Pistons down. Who really wants to take on Andre's contract being that is is not a coachable player and has never been interested to doing anything other than what he wants to do as a player. We need a shot blocker, paint protector and a player who can get key rebounds on the defensive end in crunch time. Drummond cannot yet play in crunch time. Will he ever be capable enough to play in crunch time. If Detroit cannot obtain a competent center this season they need to develop Moreland.

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