Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

Former Lions Scott Mitchell and Damien Woody are going to be on "The Biggest Loser".   Mitchell has ballooned to 366 pounds. Anybody want to make a guess as to how long before Dumars and Villanueva are on the show?

I am not sure about Dumars but if there is money involved, Charlie will be there. Maybe he is in Rockford right now eating those dogs while trying to get into the Hotdog Hall of Fame as well as gain enough weight to get on the show. Hard to believe that Mitchell is up to 366.

[Sparma]

Vince Ellis reports Monroe's being offered 4 years and just over 54 mil. That comes to 13.5 mil per year, leaving Monroe a young man at the end of the deal. Also, by no coincidence, the deal would pay Monroe a tad more than Josh Smith.

That's right around what I think it would take to get Monroe to sign long term with the Pistons, rather than the q.o. or a short deal. I've read complaints that SVG's bidding against himself, but this sounds to me like it's in the territory of what it would take to entice Monroe, likely with a bump (to 56 mil?) if there's a counter.

Vast overpayment? You can hope that Ellis is misinformed (but he's seems like the best local source) or that Monroe/ Falk overreach and refuse the offer, as has evidently happened thus far.

I think we're getting somewhere now.

[Fennis Dembo]

Former Lions Scott Mitchell and Damien Woody are going to be on "The Biggest Loser".   Mitchell has ballooned to 366 pounds. Anybody want to make a guess as to how long before Dumars and Villanueva are on the show?

[Oracle]

Can see DEAD people  

[Sparma]

That was a great trade, Murph. The Tigers got a terrific five year run out of McLain, then traded him for a premium once he'd lost it. I watched McLain pitch for the Senators in '71, greeted mainly by boos in Tiger Stadium. He lost 22 that year in what proved to be the best year he had left; he finished up the next year with ERAs (for 3 teams) over 6.

I looked up the boxscore for the 1971 Lolich game I watched. Detroit lost 3-2. Lolich pitched all 11 innings, striking out 14 and walking none. By comparison, David Price should be sheepish with his mere 8 2/3 innings and 10 Ks along with 0 BBs! Lolich's counterpart that day, Clyde Wright, went 11 1/3. I'm not getting my hands on the pitch count, which must have been otherworldly.

[Murph]

Thanks Merc.  Moving Stanley from CF to SS was a genius move by an otherwise non-genius Mayo Smith.  Kaline had to play in the WS and did extremely well.  Up until that point Lolich was one of the streakiest pitchers ever, but he pitched his best when it mattered most, which can't be said of Denny (who later recounted arm trouble from overuse) although his game 6 win was huge.  I watched Lolich at Tiger Stadium in '71 against the Angels, a year when he put in 376 innings on his way to a terrific 25 win season.  I was about to blame Martin for costing Lolich a run at the HoF by wearing him out, but I see Lolich had four straight seasons over 300 innings and six over 270, so it wasn't just Billy.  Those were different days for pitchers.  Price averages 111 pitches per game (112 yesterday) which makes him into a marathon man by today's standards.  Tony Cloninger pitched 13 innings on opening day in 1966, after winning 24 the year before, evidently spoiling a real promising career.

Now, back to our ordinary programming.

Sparma, Nice call on Denny... he liked to pitch up in the letters... pop ups & Ks was his gig.... I recall watching his 31st win... what a fun team the '68 club was... they started calling them the come back kids... never out of a game.
How gutsy was Mayo putting Stanley in center right before the world series?
Lolich out-pitching Gibson was crazy.

And not only did the Tigers get all that they possibly could out of Denny McClain, they then traded him as the most opportune time, along with Don Wert and Elliot Maddox, for Joe Coleman, Aurelio Rodriquez and Eddie Brinkman....three mainstains of the team for the next 5 to 10 years.

[Go Stones!]

If you look at every championship team it is their bench that spells their stars and holds down the fort. Detroit needs a bench that appears like their starting line-up.

Jennings
KCP
Singler
PF????
Center????

Would be a good start...

[Sparma]

Thanks Merc. Moving Stanley from CF to SS was a genius move by an otherwise non-genius Mayo Smith. Kaline had to play in the WS and did extremely well. Up until that point Lolich was one of the streakiest pitchers ever, but he pitched his best when it mattered most, which can't be said of Denny (who later recounted arm trouble from overuse) although his game 6 win was huge. I watched Lolich at Tiger Stadium in '71 against the Angels, a year when he put in 376 innings on his way to a terrific 25 win season. I was about to blame Martin for costing Lolich a run at the HoF by wearing him out, but I see Lolich had four straight seasons over 300 innings and six over 270, so it wasn't just Billy. Those were different days for pitchers. Price averages 111 pitches per game (112 yesterday) which makes him into a marathon man by today's standards. Tony Cloninger pitched 13 innings on opening day in 1966, after winning 24 the year before, evidently spoiling a real promising career.

Now, back to our ordinary programming.

Sparma, Nice call on Denny... he liked to pitch up in the letters... pop ups & Ks was his gig.... I recall watching his 31st win... what a fun team the '68 club was... they started calling them the come back kids... never out of a game.
How gutsy was Mayo putting Stanley in center right before the world series?
Lolich out-pitching Gibson was crazy.

[WTF]

Has notice an increase influx of criticism from several other fan factions of lesser talented players such as "The Kyle Singler Fan Club" and "The Brandon Knight Foundation" as well as "The Jerebko Is My Favorite"

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club understand the suffering of fans of the less fortunate and lost causes and we forgiving your hating Don!

[merc]

Sparma, Nice call on Denny... he liked to pitch up in the letters... pop ups & Ks was his gig.... I recall watching his 31st win... what a fun team the '68 club was... they started calling them the come back kids... never out of a game.
How gutsy was Mayo putting Stanley in center right before the world series?
Lolich out-pitching Gibson was crazy.

[Sparma]

Looked tough against the Yankees.  I wasn't thinking he was at his best as I watched the game, as he let up some hits and a couple of home runs, but, dang, 10 Ks and no BBs sounds like it should qualify as great. And he looked really tough to beat late in the game as the announcers saw him losing a bit on his pitches.

I noticed something really weird about his stats: including this start, he's given up 22 HRs, which should make him the AL worst (he'd been tied with a couple of guys), but he's let up all of 23 walks. Wow! Those walks go with a league leading K total of 199, creating an incredible 8.65 K to BB rate so far this year.

I'm reminded of Denny McLain who had the strikeouts, along with the HRs allowed (in Tiger stadium!), and who developed good control at his peak. Denny's highest ratio, by far, naturally came in '68, at an outstanding 4.44.

That's no where near Price's ratio so far this season. And Price beat out McLain's best ratio last year, at an amazing 5.59, when he managed to ring up a 10-8 record, at some distance from Denny's 31-6!.

So quite a debut, in spite of the HRs, worthy of the hullabaloo, even though Price didn't get the win.

Great win, with Avila as the unlikely hitting hero. They're going to need some heroics in the next month with all those games on the road.

[Oracle]

Love to the Cavs means that they have no love for Wiggins   , here's the info!!!


Report: Cavs, Wolves have ‘handshake agreement’ on Love trade — Last we all heard on the Kevin Love/Minnesota Timberwolves/Cleveland Cavaliers trade saga was that team owner Glen Taylor said a trade of Love was likely to happen by the end of August. Today’s update doesn’t do anything to refute what Taylor said. ESPN.com’s Brian Windhorst, in an interview with ESPN Radio 98.7 FM in New York, said that the Wolves and Cavs basically have a handshake agreement on a trade (fast-forward to the 9:39 mark to hear the details). Here’s a transcript of what Windhorst said in the interview:

The deal is done but not done. The teams have agreed, but they can’t say they have agreed and they can’t agree, because we’re in this weird moratorium period because you can’t trade Andrew Wiggins until the 23rd of this month.

So, between now and then – which is, what, 19 days – could some of that happen? Could a team come in with a trade that maybe Minnesota doesn’t see? Yes, it could happen. So therefore it is not done.

But essentially, before the papers have been signed, there is this handshake agreement that Kevin Love to the Cavs, Andrew Wiggins to the Timberwolves, and I believe Thaddeus Young will end up in Minnesota either as part of a separate deal or as part of a three-way deal. Possibly, Anthony Bennett, who’s on the Cavs right now could get re-routed to Philadelphia in part of a deal for Thaddeus Young. There will be draft picks involved.

But essentially what you need to know if you’re an NBA fan, Kevin Love is going to be on the Cavs barring anything unforeseen, and and Andrew Wiggins, No. 1 overall pick, is going to be on Minnesota.

[Oracle]

@Don - SVG will use a 2 in 3 out offense, and IMO, that's superior to his old 1 in 4 out offense he used with Howard! That offense is way too dependent on hot shooting, while 2 in 3 out has a good balance! In addition, that's an offense also designed for inept/offensively challenged big men like Drummond because it puts him into full on garbage play mode! You never run plays for him to score, he just collects as many misses as he can and slams them back in!

Again, IMO, that offense also delayed the development of Howard, and he's just not becoming the dominant offensive force he should have been 3-4 years ago! He was awfully impressive in the playoffs, even in a losing effort, having been saddled with the yearly playoff chocker/loser in the bearded one!

Let's face it. Drummond is VERY raw, and he's getting absolutely no development there, he needs to come home and get to work on some phase of his game other than the garbage points! If you caught any of his games at Team USA, you have to be blowing chunks right about now! Sure he got some nice put backs, but he air balled a hook shot, and looked totally incapable of executing any offensive moves in the post... hardly inspiring!

@Wise - I hear you on Josh! I too had somehow heard or thought he was a locker room cancer, but there's absolutely no evidence I can uncover on that, actually just the opposite. It's likely he just had a rep like Sheed did, and people just think the other stuff follows!

Having said that, I see no reason to go there to find problems with Josh! There's plenty of ammunition that's well documented, fair or unfair, the facts don't lie. By fair, I mean, was he used properly, was he the leader and had to fall on the sword, but in the final analysis, it doesn't matter, you step up and take the blame or credit.

Monroe? When nobody wants your ass, you just go home! Unfortunately that bad penny is likely to be turning up here and attempting to clean up the lying mess he's created, but I'm still hopeful that we get a S&T done somewhere.

On a Phoenix site someone suggested a Monroe for Bledsoe trade straight up! Unfortunately they shot it down almost immediately saying that it's a clear loser for Phoenix... Monroe just isn't that good!

[cool breeze]

A vision came to me that Stan the Man is pacing the floor this moment thinking "What in hell can I do with this group of players currently on the Piston roster". Can Stan find a shooting coach who will suddenly transform free throw shooting percentages for Drummond, Smith, Monroe and Jennings before the regular season starts? Smith wants to play small forward so will Stan try the Big 3 on the floor together again just to make sure it won't work? Will Van Gundy invent a new offense that will work for the Big 3? The problem is obvious. All 3 players have great difficulty shooting a free throw let alone attempting a jump shot from 10 feet or beyond. I would like both Monroe and Smith to find a new home so the Pistons don't get their butts kicked in every game this year. Most believe that the Big 3 experiment is history and will never happen again. But what difference does it make who starts and who comes off the bench between Monroe and Smith? Neither player can draw a big man defender out of the paint so Drummond can be more effective on offense. But then it is true that Drummond lacks offensive skills anyway so that is why I believe that Stan The Man is pacing the floor a lot.

[cool breeze]

Only asked for confirmation such as articles, video, tape recordings etc.  While we recognize and except the opinions and views of others regarding Josh Smith we only ask that distractors provide proof to and alleged offensives such as locker room fights, player conflict, or being an overall disruption to any team chemistry and harmony.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club openly acknowledge all suspension and coaching conflicts with the Hawks and Pistons organization and coaching staffs. Both Coach Cheeks and Woodson were controlling Ass Wipes and Puppets who didn't have the best interest of Josh and served their masters accordingly regardless to any common sense.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club also acknowledge the poor 3 point shooting of Josh and will not ever make claims otherwise. This however should not be a reflection on his overall value as a player as the video we've provided recently show that Josh Smith is one badass Mofo rather you like him or not.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club really don't give a rat's ass about those that don't like him, the haters, the naysayers, the wannabe's, the Moose Lovers, the talking heads,  they all have their individual agendas for hating on Josh Smith. They'll lie, steal, cheat and backstab some of them just want to be heard talking load and saying nothing.  Josh Smith think they're all just jealous.

The Josh Smith Fan Club   

So far SVG has not been able to trade Smith Wisefan. Unless Stan has decided to change his strategy relating to using a stretch 4 in his offense who can consistently knock down shots outside the free throw line and make free throws, it is unlikely that Van Gundy won't keep searching for a trade partner. It seems that other GM in the league are not at high on him as the folks who have joined the Josh Smith Fan Club. If Josh is traded, will you continue to adore this player? Did the Fan Club originate in Atlanta? I can't locate any Josh Smith fans with the exception of his relatives in that area of the country. I know there were some fans in Detroit who attended the Bad Boy celebration game but then lost interest in the 2nd half when Smith seemed to lose interest in that game and the Heat put the dunce cap on our highest paid player. He lead his team into the toilet that day.

[Oracle]

I would have thought DeMarcus Cousins was a shoo-in for the USA team, in part based on watching that scrimmage that ended so ugly with the injury.

Rumors are that Mason Plumlee, who looked good in the scrimmage, may beat out Cousins (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/03/demarcus-cousins-visibly-shaken-by-news-mason-plumlee-may-beat-him-out-of-spot-on-usa-basketball-roster/).

I don't know if 1 or 2 (AD, Cousins, Plumlee) will make it in addition to Davis, but if it's two, AD may have a chance.  Listening to Malik Rose & co-host Jason at NBA Sirius, they're focusing on the international game in which your center needs to run (as AD and Plumlee do) and play above the rim, especially when you have a slew of shooters, whose work needs to be cleaned up.  AD is also given the advantage in not needing the ball.  They stress not needing to run plays for the center and the importance of being an energy guy who can clean up around the rim.  Their main point concerns Plumlee being a better fit than Cousins in this context (and they emphasize that Cousins is the better NBA players), but they're giving some love to Drummond along the way.

Maybe best not to expose AD to the injury risk, but it's still good to hear AD's strenghts emphasized.

Let's face it, Drummond is pretty raw compared to these other big men!

Vincent Goodwill @vgoodwill  ·              8/5/2014                
Coach K on @AndreDrummondd : "Whether he’s on the team right now, we want him on USA basketball going forward because he’s an up and comer."

Vincent Goodwill @vgoodwill  ·  8/5/2014                
Seems like Coach K views Drummond as a developmental guy going forward in the program as opposed to the possibility of bringing him to Spain

Vincent Goodwill @vgoodwill  ·  8/5/2014                
While Coach K is very vague with how he evaluates Drummond, he's certainly more definitive in praise of DeMarcus Cousins and M. Plumlee

[Sparma]

I would have thought DeMarcus Cousins was a shoo-in for the USA team, in part based on watching that scrimmage that ended so ugly with the injury.

Rumors are that Mason Plumlee, who looked good in the scrimmage, may beat out Cousins (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/03/demarcus-cousins-visibly-shaken-by-news-mason-plumlee-may-beat-him-out-of-spot-on-usa-basketball-roster/).

I don't know if 1 or 2 (AD, Cousins, Plumlee) will make it in addition to Davis, but if it's two, AD may have a chance.  Listening to Malik Rose & co-host Jason at NBA Sirius, they're focusing on the international game in which your center needs to run (as AD and Plumlee do) and play above the rim, especially when you have a slew of shooters, whose work needs to be cleaned up.  AD is also given the advantage in not needing the ball.  They stress not needing to run plays for the center and the importance of being an energy guy who can clean up around the rim.  Their main point concerns Plumlee being a better fit than Cousins in this context (and they emphasize that Cousins is the better NBA players), but they're giving some love to Drummond along the way.

Maybe best not to expose AD to the injury risk, but it's still good to hear AD's strenghts emphasized.

[lemonpen]

Only asked for confirmation such as articles, video, tape recordings etc.  While we recognize and except the opinions and views of others regarding Josh Smith we only ask that distractors provide proof to and alleged offensives such as locker room fights, player conflict, or being an overall disruption to any team chemistry and harmony.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club openly acknowledge all suspension and coaching conflicts with the Hawks and Pistons organization and coaching staffs. Both Coach Cheeks and Woodson were controlling Ass Wipes and Puppets who didn't have the best interest of Josh and served their masters accordingly regardless to any common sense.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club also acknowledge the poor 3 point shooting of Josh and will not ever make claims otherwise. This however should not be a reflection on his overall value as a player as the video we've provided recently show that Josh Smith is one badass Mofo rather you like him or not.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club really don't give a rat's ass about those that don't like him, the haters, the naysayers, the wannabe's, the Moose Lovers, the talking heads,  they all have their individual agendas for hating on Josh Smith. They'll lie, steal, cheat and backstab some of them just want to be heard talking load and saying nothing.  Josh Smith think they're all just jealous.

The Josh Smith Fan Club   

Sounds like a Bromance         

[WTF]

Only asked for confirmation such as articles, video, tape recordings etc. While we recognize and except the opinions and views of others regarding Josh Smith we only ask that distractors provide proof to and alleged offensives such as locker room fights, player conflict, or being an overall disruption to any team chemistry and harmony.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club openly acknowledge all suspension and coaching conflicts with the Hawks and Pistons organization and coaching staffs. Both Coach Cheeks and Woodson were controlling Ass Wipes and Puppets who didn't have the best interest of Josh and served their masters accordingly regardless to any common sense.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club also acknowledge the poor 3 point shooting of Josh and will not ever make claims otherwise. This however should not be a reflection on his overall value as a player as the video we've provided recently show that Josh Smith is one badass Mofo rather you like him or not.

We at The Josh Smith Fan Club really don't give a rat's ass about those that don't like him, the haters, the naysayers, the wannabe's, the Moose Lovers, the talking heads, they all have their individual agendas for hating on Josh Smith. They'll lie, steal, cheat and backstab some of them just want to be heard talking load and saying nothing. Josh Smith think they're all just jealous.

The Josh Smith Fan Club   

[cool breeze]

In fact last week I was on an Atlanta site "Atlanta Hawks Rumors" where one basketball expert wrote a lot of stuff on how Josh Smith can adversely affect a team's chemistry or at least did relating to his stay with the Atlanta Hawks. That is well known Wisefan. I have a close friend who has lived in Atlanta who has written me bitching about Josh Smith issues. Now we have him. And I watched this guy play last season and could clearly see that he never was on board with the team's game plan.

Seriously a rumor site, a close friend and last season.   You still haven't provided a single piece of detail again show me one comment from a player or coach, show me one link saying who he fought with, argue with or debated with.   Stop avoiding this I've asked you countless times for proof but you bring up a close friend said this or that.  Okay fine but I have close friends and relatives in Atlanta and I've attended Hawks games and experience what the fans thought of Josh and how they reacted towards him.  

Please come better than a rumor page and comment from a talking head.  Did the rumor pages say who he fought with?  My close friends and family loved the kid personally and was more angry towards management than they could ever be about Josh game and attitude.  

Gee Don we all watched Josh play last season and we didn't have a game plan for any player to be on board with so what's your point.  Please if you know tell me what was the game plan last season, please tell all of us.  I'm not angry it would be just nice if you could produce something beyond the feelings of a close friend and a rumor page and selling it as the truth.   SVG love Josh, he think he plays hard and has an good work ethic and know that if used correctly he's good for the team,  players across the league respects him just because you and your friend don't like him doesn't make what you're saying true.  Proof is in the pudding so lets seeing it. The Josh Smith Fan Club wants to see the link.

If you love Josh Smith than who am I to ruin your feelings on this man. My buddy has season tickets with the Hawks and he was my teammate in college. Do you believe the Hawks played better without Josh Smith this past season Wisefan? Would you rather have Smith or Paul Millsap? Sorry but Josh Smith has never been one of my favorite players. Do you know any Atlanta fans who say they miss him? If Smith plays like he did last year, SVG will get rid of him and I will be happy. If he plays well, I will be happy for him. By the way, what is wrong about reporting what people in Atlanta have been saying? Is that forbidden according to your rules?

[WTF]

In fact last week I was on an Atlanta site "Atlanta Hawks Rumors" where one basketball expert wrote a lot of stuff on how Josh Smith can adversely affect a team's chemistry or at least did relating to his stay with the Atlanta Hawks. That is well known Wisefan. I have a close friend who has lived in Atlanta who has written me bitching about Josh Smith issues. Now we have him. And I watched this guy play last season and could clearly see that he never was on board with the team's game plan.

Seriously a rumor site, a close friend and last season. You still haven't provided a single piece of detail again show me one comment from a player or coach, show me one link saying who he fought with, argue with or debated with. Stop avoiding this I've asked you countless times for proof but you bring up a close friend said this or that. Okay fine but I have close friends and relatives in Atlanta and I've attended Hawks games and experience what the fans thought of Josh and how they reacted towards him.

Please come better than a rumor page and comment from a talking head. Did the rumor pages say who he fought with? My close friends and family loved the kid personally and was more angry towards management than they could ever be about Josh game and attitude.

Gee Don we all watched Josh play last season and we didn't have a game plan for any player to be on board with so what's your point. Please if you know tell me what was the game plan last season, please tell all of us. I'm not angry it would be just nice if you could produce something beyond the feelings of a close friend and a rumor page and selling it as the truth. SVG love Josh, he think he plays hard and has an good work ethic and know that if used correctly he's good for the team, players across the league respects him just because you and your friend don't like him doesn't make what you're saying true. Proof is in the pudding so lets seeing it. The Josh Smith Fan Club wants to see the link.

[cool breeze]

Smith doesn't fit Van Gundy's offensive system. Monroe doesn't fit SVG's system if he plays power forward. Opposing teams would love it if Josh returns next season as the same player he was last year. SVG likes to spread the floor and what coach wants Josh Smith to jack up outside jump shots? Also, throughout Smith's career, he has been a problem at times in the locker room.  Last season he didn't create any fights but was did not make much of an effort to get to know his teammates. As it seems that Monroe will return, this team will look much the same unless either Monroe or Smith leaves. Could the Kings or Celtics still be interested??

Don, I'm surprised with your position on our PF position right now....you're the most defensive minded poster on this site and you don't know who the best suited starter at PF is on this team? I believe in my heart of hearts that you do, yet you want to trade him at this late a date and hold out hope for a player who obviously doesn't want to be here. I don't know what you're referring to about Josh being a locker room problem when Atlanta's best player is his best friend and known for his mild-mannered level headedness...is Al Horford a fool? The only problem I remember Josh having in Atlanta was the outrageous contract they gave Joe Johnson but, offered him peanuts. That wasn't a locker room problem, that was with management.

SVG has what he didn't have in Orlando to compliment Howard and that's an athletic beast to play alongside Drummond in Smith. Why don't/can't we show the patience to see the outcome of this pairing? Why we got to jump the gun because of last years poor performance when Monroe was in the way and Smith was playing out of position?

Why can't a sign & trade be settled on? If David Falk is all that, why isn't there movement with his client? His max contract client! Something stinks!!

That's right dX Al Horford is one of the two players in the NBA that Josh smith is close to. The other is Rondo. Maybe he has more friends but those are the two most talented players. My feeling is that I don't believe either Smith or Monroe is the answer if the Pistons want to get better. I want both of them traded. There is no doubt in my mind that Smith is a better all around power forward than Monroe. Smith has far more potential than Monroe as well if he could follow a game plan. The guy could be a superstar but something is missing upstairs dX. There were about 4 games last season where Josh Smith was amazing in a good way. But there were 45 games where it was clear in the warmups that Smith's head was someplace other than on the basketball court. You supporters of Josh Smith need to review the game film from last season please. To be fair no big man could look good playing with Jennings, Bynum and Stuckey. But Smith is the highest paid player on the team and he was almost as isolated from the team as Kobe was in his first 10 years with the Lakers. I just want to stand up for the players in the league who care about the game itself and their team over their own world. That is why I have so much respect for Labron James. If you get a chance, read Labron's book, "Shooting Stars". Smith does not think like Labron relating to "TEAM FIRST". Smith has only been interested in himself so far in his career. Atlanta management couldn't change him. So they picked up Paul Millsap. Do you believe they miss Josh Smith at all? Can SVG change the way Smith's mind works? If not, then SVG will get rid of him. That is what I am happy about. Joe Dumars never made the players accountable and in fact he rewarded players for not performing up to their potential. As far as I am concerned, Josh Smith has a clean slate. What he does from here on out is on him. All of the players who return to this team from last season will need to adjust their attitude. This is a well needed change don't you think dX? If it is Monroe, Smith or Jennings screwing up things, then I really believe that Stan will do something about it.

[cool breeze]

Wise/Murph: When Josh & Jennings were playing great, we generally won, we needed great games from those two to get over the hump! We also did well with Drummond/Monroe, but while they played well together, we rarely won!

Don, I haven't seen a rumor that made any sense to me about Monroe, and they never made sense as soon as they were announced! Go back and see, I didn't go for any of them because they make no sense, unless you believe that Monroe is as good as he thinks he is!

DX, exactly! If he's a 20/10 player, STFU and show us!!!

Don/Wise/DX: Of course neither Monroe or Josh fits SVG's offense as you seem to believe it is!

While Monroe doesn't fit anybody's defense, there's not a defensive scheme that couldn't use Josh!

So I'm inclined to believe that SVG will alter his 1 in 4 out offense to be 2 in 3 out to accommodate both Josh & Monroe on offense, but start Josh because he can play defense, and if you can't you need to come off the bench and play against the other chumps that can't!

I can't recall a single game that Monroe demanding the ball during clutch moments of a game, in fact often he ran from the ball in those big moments or fumbled it away. Perhaps that's why Jennings and Josh spent so much time jacking up shots. All big time players want the ball, all big time players want to lead their team and I sure if Monroe stood up and excepted that challenge Josh and Jennings would have followed his lead.  

One of the first things SVG said concerning Josh was he have to take him off the perimeter.  SVG isn't some one trick pony that can coach only a certain way that he locks himself into one offensive scheme. It's like we're forgetting that SVG coached differently in Miami than he did in Orlando  yes he was fortunate to have all the right pieces to use 1 in 4 out offense in Orlando, but in Miami that wasn't the case.  

I just want Don to stop lying on Josh, it okay not to like him or hate him but damn the lying and made up stuff.  I respect Josh openly admitting that he didn't want to stay in Atlanta,  I respect that he openly asked and wanted to be traded and expressed his displeasure with the team, but at no time did he ever become a distraction for the team in the locker room on the floor or in the media.  You could only wish that more players were openly honest about how they felt.  Josh was in the same/similar situation Monroe faces now in going back to a team he wanted to leave.  I doubt very seriously if Monroe is force to play another 5 seasons here that he will be just as lazy , likely be an distraction and handle it completely the opposite of how Josh dealt with it being stuck in Atlanta.  

If Josh was this asshole Don makes him out to be do you think he would be as quiet about things as he's been all summer?  I can't imagine him sitting back shaking his head and saying to himself about Monroe "What a Bitchass Punk"

Reading the article on Jennings rung a similar bell also often heard in these parts about the departed Stuckey in that his situation was just as un-stabled with the coaching staffs in Milwaukee.  If having a stable coach can fix the issues with Jennings then I'm willing to wait and see what happens with him under SVG.  I think we forget that Jennings talent allowed him to jump right pass college into playing professional ball so he skipped college to go get paid  oppose to playing a year or 2 in college then spent 4 season with Bucks under a number of different coaching staffs.  I think Jennings just needs to grow up and play smarter.  

Wisefan I am sorry if I have upset you with my comments about Josh Smith. Occasionally one can still read some stories about Josh Smith's issues in the Hawks locker room in the past relating to fights etc. He has never been known a a good chemistry type guy according to people who have written on the blogs in Atlanta. In fact last week I was on an Atlanta site "Atlanta Hawks Rumors" where one basketball expert wrote a lot of stuff on how Josh Smith can adversely affect a team's chemistry or at least did relating to his stay with the Atlanta Hawks. That is well known Wisefan. I have a close friend who has lived in Atlanta who has written me bitching about Josh Smith issues. Now we have him. And I watched this guy play last season and could clearly see that he never was on board with the team's game plan. He played the Josh Smith game plan much like he did with the Hawks but even more so with Detroit last season. Did any of Josh's teammates speak highly about him? Did it look like they enjoyed playing with him. When Smith was on the bench during the last two weeks of the season, that is when our Pistons played their best basketball I thought. But of course Siva instead of Brandon Jennings played the point guard position as well. I thought the two odd balls last season were Jennings and Smith. Even Monroe played much stronger and seemed to have better chemistry with Drummond over the past two weeks of the season and especially that last game against the Thunder. You try to use this argument of intimidation Wisefan relating to your statements that I hate Josh Smith. I don't hate anyone. This is only my view of reality when it comes to Piston basketball. 

It would be interesting to ask Drummond which player he would prefer to keep on the team - Monroe or Smith. Drummond is a work in progress himself but because of his potential, management will listen to him. But if SVG could somehow trade both Monroe and Smith and get some solid players in return, the Piston team would be better off one or two seasons from now.

[WTF]

Andre don't feed into the situation, I know you want Monroe back and it's okay to say you hope and you wish just don't say you know for certain that he will return. I know you mean well but comments like that actually influence decision making on both sides and I'm almost certain that neither Monroe, Falk or SVG are wanting you to make those claims.

This isn't college recruiting this is the pro's and the media are sharks don't put yourself out there like that unless Monroe told you himself that he will sign his QO or the deal that SVG put out there. Just saying young fella needs to zip it and resort to saying no comments when asked about it. If you want to become the leader it time to act like it by being quiet. There's a reason why no other teammates are speaking on it so don't be the dummy that's yakking to the press.

I'm sure SVG is going to pull you to the side and tell you to stop yapping.

[WTF]

Wise/Murph: When Josh & Jennings were playing great, we generally won, we needed great games from those two to get over the hump! We also did well with Drummond/Monroe, but while they played well together, we rarely won!

Don, I haven't seen a rumor that made any sense to me about Monroe, and they never made sense as soon as they were announced! Go back and see, I didn't go for any of them because they make no sense, unless you believe that Monroe is as good as he thinks he is!

DX, exactly! If he's a 20/10 player, STFU and show us!!!

Don/Wise/DX: Of course neither Monroe or Josh fits SVG's offense as you seem to believe it is!

While Monroe doesn't fit anybody's defense, there's not a defensive scheme that couldn't use Josh!

So I'm inclined to believe that SVG will alter his 1 in 4 out offense to be 2 in 3 out to accommodate both Josh & Monroe on offense, but start Josh because he can play defense, and if you can't you need to come off the bench and play against the other chumps that can't!

I can't recall a single game that Monroe demanding the ball during clutch moments of a game, in fact often he ran from the ball in those big moments or fumbled it away. Perhaps that's why Jennings and Josh spent so much time jacking up shots. All big time players want the ball, all big time players want to lead their team and I sure if Monroe stood up and excepted that challenge Josh and Jennings would have followed his lead.

One of the first things SVG said concerning Josh was he have to take him off the perimeter. SVG isn't some one trick pony that can coach only a certain way that he locks himself into one offensive scheme. It's like we're forgetting that SVG coached differently in Miami than he did in Orlando yes he was fortunate to have all the right pieces to use 1 in 4 out offense in Orlando, but in Miami that wasn't the case.

I just want Don to stop lying on Josh, it okay not to like him or hate him but damn the lying and made up stuff. I respect Josh openly admitting that he didn't want to stay in Atlanta, I respect that he openly asked and wanted to be traded and expressed his displeasure with the team, but at no time did he ever become a distraction for the team in the locker room on the floor or in the media. You could only wish that more players were openly honest about how they felt. Josh was in the same/similar situation Monroe faces now in going back to a team he wanted to leave. I doubt very seriously if Monroe is force to play another 5 seasons here that he will be just as lazy , likely be an distraction and handle it completely the opposite of how Josh dealt with it being stuck in Atlanta.

If Josh was this asshole Don makes him out to be do you think he would be as quiet about things as he's been all summer? I can't imagine him sitting back shaking his head and saying to himself about Monroe "What a Bitchass Punk"

Reading the article on Jennings rung a similar bell also often heard in these parts about the departed Stuckey in that his situation was just as un-stabled with the coaching staffs in Milwaukee. If having a stable coach can fix the issues with Jennings then I'm willing to wait and see what happens with him under SVG. I think we forget that Jennings talent allowed him to jump right pass college into playing professional ball so he skipped college to go get paid oppose to playing a year or 2 in college then spent 4 season with Bucks under a number of different coaching staffs. I think Jennings just needs to grow up and play smarter.

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