Stupid Shot By Smith

[Sissy1946]

JSmoove, Indeed, we need to get rid of this disgrace, he also had 8 turnovers, our whole team had 16 so he had half of the turnovers, he's a turnover machine who I can't even stand to see him get the ball, dribble, dribble loses the ball again over & over.
Monroe, who can trust him with the ball anymore, the worst thing we do is sign him for a max contract, those two guys along with the Ball Hogs Smith, Bynum, Jennings we don't stand a chance of playing team ball, this season is over & along with Cheeks's Pizz poor coaching, it's time for line up changes Mo, how long does it game for you to figure these guys just don't have it?

[merc]

Moose has gone into hibernation... he needs to be on a team where he's got space inside... right now he's just a turn over machine.
Pistons 1.5 games from 7th worst record (keeping pick)... was hoping not to be having tank talk this year.
It's not looking like Smith is gonna stop chucking bad shots any time soon.
This team went from the penthouse to the outhouse in less than a month.. I'm starting to come around to the trade side of the fence.
This team needs a defensive specialist... preferably at PG.

[merc]

Hey Josh, how many times do you cheat off Melo b4 you wake the hell up?
Jennings continues to be our #1 reason we're losing... every guard in the L is easily getting inside... this is consistently causing help and the open man.... oh and we really don't need our PG hanging out around the perimeter.
Singler has earned more minutes.

[Sparma]

Can't remember ever seeing a breakdown like this: -57 total for the starters (all negative), +37 for the bench (all positive, except for Jorts (at 0) who played  a minute).  It looks like Singler and CV made real positive contributions.

Reading game threads, it sounds like there was some more fool playing at the end.  Long (missed) two by Smith?  Failure to capitalize on a fouling situation?

Last year the team could win and you had the comfort of feeling they might be closing in on someone like Burke.  No upside to the losing this year (except for those who want Dumars to leave asap.)  Losing just hurts now.

[Oracle]

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
Follow
3 of tonight's 4 starting guards scoreless at halftime. Jennings and KCP a combined 0 of 8. Billups 0 of 3. Bynum only Pistons G to score.

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
Follow
Josh Smith just 2 of 7, but he has 11 boards and 4 assists. We're tied at 41, Pistons ball, 4.1 to play in 1H

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
Follow
Pistons 9 of 10 at FT line tonight, Nicks 4 of 9. Nice to be on the right side of that for a change.

[Oracle]

After this, is generally when somebody on the Pistons drops the soap, and the next thing you know, it's a gang bang!

Oh, by the way, tell me again why Don was so wrong about Singler?

Ok, Don may have inflated a skill to two, but his overall observation of Singler's game was right on!

[Oracle]

"After being left out the national spotlight for many years, new point guard Brandon Jennings is bringing some attention back to the Detroit Pistons.

Jennings is featured in a new NBA Shop commercial showing off his handles and apparel against Chicago Bull Carlos Boozer. Houston Rocket Chandler Parsons and Golden State Warrior Andre Iguodala also make an appearance." - Eric Vincent, WDFN

[Oracle]

Incidently, Singler has been on fire recently.

Singler is shooting 49% from the field, and 37% from 3 point land, which is 2nd on the team to Jerebko.  Singler is quietly developing into the best perimeter shooter on a team that desparately needs perimeter shooting.

So Singler is quietly building a case to start in his own right, regardless of Smith's shooting woes at SF.

Murph, I would start Singler, but not in place of Josh Smith!

Start Singler at SG, and even though you'll lose a bit on defense, his shooting and ball movement would make the offense flow a lot better!

Oracle, we are weak enough with our perimeter defense as is, with Jennings being an essential part of the backcourt; IMO, the reasonable way to go is start Singler at his natural position (SF), move Smith back to where he's been most effective during his career (PF), and see how that lineup change works out over 10 games or so...what have we to loose at this point? Isn't the objective to get players into their natural positions, instead of playing them out of position, and hoping it magically works out? Do you really feel Monroe is indispensable in the starting lineup?  

Your response is better IMO, but I was responding to removing Smith from the lineup! If that was the choice, I didn't like it, and would rather remove KCP!

[Oracle]

Ryan Anderson has a herniated disk?! That does it...Moose, take your ass to the bench!!

Drummond and Monroe are two of the best centers in the east, and given their age, could rank as high in the entire league; a hell of a duo, but one has to come off the bench to make history!

Smith and Harrellson could be just as effective for us, at the PF slot, as Drummond and Monroe are at center; all we need is for our coach to give them a chance to blend their games and allow them to marinate. Smith & Jorts are far better defensively and on offense, we've got a tremendous post player (Smith) and a hell of a stretch 4 (Jorts)....Dre & J-Smoove, and Moose & Jorts...we don't have to speculate on acquiring them, we've got them!!

Coming off a 29 win season I don't think trying to sell anyone on the merits of Jennings, KCP, Singler, Stuckey, and Gigi as being improvements, is worth wasting breath on, because whatever shortcomings there may be can be corrected this summer (once we get a taste of playoff action).

Jerebko, CV, Mitchell should be bench cheerleaders, and Bynum & Billups should be dangled for trade bait to get Andre Miller from Denver...everything we hoped Chauncey would deliver and more; an everyday player who knows the game, and can mentor Jennings. Chauncey's legacy is intact in Detroit, so there's no need for him to gum up the works before he officially retires and moves into the front office here; let him finish his career at home.

DX, you have a lot of good ideas in this post, but let me add something else.

I brought up the idea of benching Drummond, and the more I think about it, the more I think that's really the best move!

Keep the idea of a huge frontcourt, but modify it to be Moose at center, Harrelson at PF, leaving Josh at SF! All of a sudden, we have that stretch 4, and Josh and Monroe can operate at will in the post!

Why Drummond? Well because, frankly, he's the worst big on the roster!

Not talent wise, but balance wise! Drummond is the worst offensively, and not much better than Moose defensively, but only because he has so much to learn on both ends of the floor! In addition, any other big is a positive in crunch time, where Drummond is a boat anchor!

The defensive part really scares me about Drummond, if for no other reason than since he's totally impotent offensively, he should be excelling there, but he's not!

Going to the bench will allow him to grow into a better big man, and also allow him to experiment more with his game!

I know this isn't popular, and I knew that when I first attempted to bring it up as a topic, but now that the talking heads are even mentioning it, it's time, IMO, to really give it some consideration, even if we do get some shooters!

[deusXango]

Incidently, Singler has been on fire recently.

Singler is shooting 49% from the field, and 37% from 3 point land, which is 2nd on the team to Jerebko.  Singler is quietly developing into the best perimeter shooter on a team that desparately needs perimeter shooting.

So Singler is quietly building a case to start in his own right, regardless of Smith's shooting woes at SF.

Murph, I would start Singler, but not in place of Josh Smith!

Start Singler at SG, and even though you'll lose a bit on defense, his shooting and ball movement would make the offense flow a lot better!

Oracle, we are weak enough with our perimeter defense as is, with Jennings being an essential part of the backcourt; IMO, the reasonable way to go is start Singler at his natural position (SF), move Smith back to where he's been most effective during his career (PF), and see how that lineup change works out over 10 games or so...what have we to loose at this point? Isn't the objective to get players into their natural positions, instead of playing them out of position, and hoping it magically works out? Do you really feel Monroe is indispensable in the starting lineup?

[deusXango]

Ryan Anderson has a herniated disk?! That does it...Moose, take your ass to the bench!!

Drummond and Monroe are two of the best centers in the east, and given their age, could rank as high in the entire league; a hell of a duo, but one has to come off the bench to make history!

Smith and Harrellson could be just as effective for us, at the PF slot, as Drummond and Monroe are at center; all we need is for our coach to give them a chance to blend their games and allow them to marinate. Smith & Jorts are far better defensively and on offense, we've got a tremendous post player (Smith) and a hell of a stretch 4 (Jorts)....Dre & J-Smoove, and Moose & Jorts...we don't have to speculate on acquiring them, we've got them!!

Coming off a 29 win season I don't think trying to sell anyone on the merits of Jennings, KCP, Singler, Stuckey, and Gigi as being improvements, is worth wasting breath on, because whatever shortcomings there may be can be corrected this summer (once we get a taste of playoff action).

Jerebko, CV, Mitchell should be bench cheerleaders, and Bynum & Billups should be dangled for trade bait to get Andre Miller from Denver...everything we hoped Chauncey would deliver and more; an everyday player who knows the game, and can mentor Jennings. Chauncey's legacy is intact in Detroit, so there's no need for him to gum up the works before he officially retires and moves into the front office here; let him finish his career at home.

[Oracle]

Incidently, Singler has been on fire recently.

Singler is shooting 49% from the field, and 37% from 3 point land, which is 2nd on the team to Jerebko.  Singler is quietly developing into the best perimeter shooter on a team that desparately needs perimeter shooting.

So Singler is quietly building a case to start in his own right, regardless of Smith's shooting woes at SF.

Murph, I would start Singler, but not in place of Josh Smith!

Start Singler at SG, and even though you'll lose a bit on defense, his shooting and ball movement would make the offense flow a lot better!

[Oracle]

1. Cheeks admits he doesn't know what to do? Is that supposed to be a news flash?

2. Murph is right, if you're going to move any of the big 3, you move Josh Smith, but IMO, none of them needs to be moved!

3. Moving Drummond to the bench is what I said yesterday, and it's a great idea. The only problem is that it's a short term fix, and therefore should only be tried if everything else fails.

News Flash: The pieces fit in the big 3, they are NOT the problem!

The original plan was to keep Calderon and Knight, who would both spread the floor like a mutha, which would free up the bigs to do major damage in the post!

Calderon bolted and Knight was dumped for Jennings, along with our best pure shooter in Middleton!

Now Joe is faced with replacing what he already had and couldn't or wouldn't keep!

Joe needs to get at a minimum 1 real shooter in the starting lineup, and one more for the bench, and somewhere he needs a closer(at any position), but that can wait until next year(if he's here)!

If you can't get the shooters, then we're going to be spinning all of these moves & talking about solutions that only address short term fixes!

[Murph]

Incidently, Singler has been on fire recently.

Singler is shooting 49% from the field, and 37% from 3 point land, which is 2nd on the team to Jerebko.  Singler is quietly developing into the best perimeter shooter on a team that desparately needs perimeter shooting.

So Singler is quietly building a case to start in his own right, regardless of Smith's shooting woes at SF.

[Murph]

I don't want to turn this into Smith bashing, because I like Smith as a player, and I fully expected him to be able to make the transition back to SF. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened.

But Smith has a 40% FG percentage this year. Why should we trade a 23 year old, 6'11 big man who's shooting 51% for the season and 51% for his career...and hang onto a 28 year old, 6'9 big man who's shooting 40% for the season and 46% for his career? It doesn't make sense.

We need to hang onto both Monroe and Smith, and bring the least effective one off the bench.

Do you have a link to that article or those stats?

[deusXango]

This isn't Lil Larry Part 2, it's more like  Fat Joe Part 5 because every coach since LB has had to deal with an imbalance roster, and very little in terms of bench production since 2005. No matter how he constructs that 8-9 man rotation it simply won't be effective without the correct pieces in place.-Wise
Wise, you get major points for the "Fat Joe Part 5" quip, and you're right, Joe hasn't shown the ability to construct a well balanced team, from top to bottom, but coming off of a 29 win season, we've got enough talent to put together a more competitive rotation and have posted a much better record than we have now! Major mistakes have been made in the Pistons brain trust, from Tom Gores to Maurice Cheeks, with Fat Joe as the center piece!

Drummond and Smith can be and are very compatible & competitive as a frontline pair; Singler, KCP, and Jennings are someplace from decent to good as perimeter players, depending on who we're playing, and that starting 5 in the east is playoff worthy. You play Monroe and Jorts on the 2nd units frontline and Stuckey and Datome as the bench's perimeter players, and never let Bynum's or Chauncey's feet hit the court (even in blow outs) we'll be okay with that 9 man rotation; if you don't see any value in that Wise, I don't know what I can say to convince you that Cheeks is not the coach you seem to think he is. I honestly don't believe that George Karl, Lionel Hollins, or Jerry Sloan would deploy this teams talent much differently; I also don't believe any of them would continue to play Bynum and Billups together, especially in the late stages of games, if they were played at all.

I know you think highly of KCP but the fact that he's a score and not shooter makes him not a good fit unless you trade Stuckey and allow him to do what Stuckey does with the second unit.-Wise
Joe bypassed Trey Burke for KCP so I'm pulling extra hard for this young man because of that; he's shown promise since he's been here, in spite of his lack of coaching! KCP is a scorer both inside and out; he goes hard to the rim and gets up off the floor, as well as hit the outside shot, something that Stuckey didn't do as a rookie, nor does he do as effectively today. Oddly enough, KCP's play is Stuckey's saving grace, by allowing him to shine on the 2nd unit, and me as his biggest critic, would be in favor of bringing him back if he continued to play as he has, coming off the bench. Stuckey's a combo guard who can play the point in shot spells...we presently don't have the ability to go beyond a 3 guard rotation without looking like sh!t, so Jennings, KCP, and Stuckey are the logical guards in the FIRST year of our reset.

[WTF]

Murph, Moose has 2 major flaws Defense and Mid Range and both are the main reasons as to why the three are meshing to begin with.  The fact that Smith is the more complete player out of the three at this point makes him more valuable than Moose.   IMO this wouldn't be working even if Joe didn't signed Smith over the summer because Moose and Drummond can't both effectively occupy the same space on the floor which is what Moose wants to do because he can't effectively step out and hit a 10 footer consistently enough.  

The reality is that Moose is hindering Drummonds development and Smiths effectiveness as viable and reliable post threat. I know everyone keeps wishing but Moose isn't the right match with Drummond long term, and he's the piece that is causing the most issues for the three of them working know.  

As far as Josh goes he doesn't need to get better as you said he's the most complete player of the three and even at 28 he's not some old dude that's on a decline.  Moose is a center, Andre is a center and this idea that they both can dominate offensively in the post is crazy.  You look an any twin tower scenario in NBA history and I assure you that at least one of those centers if not both were able to step out and be a threat deep and definitely at mid range.  We don't get this currently from either Andre or Moose.    

Smith can't hit an outside shot either, which is why he can't play SF.

Smith is a more complete player NOW.  But Smith is 28 years old, and at the very prime of his career.  Monroe is only 23.  In 5 years, Monroe will still be in his prime, while Smith will be on the decline.

IMO, it has yet to be determined which 2 of the big 3 play best together.  Whichever 2 play best together should start (another good application of +/- stats).  Unfortunately, I could not find those stats.

There's been a number of articles and reports that indicate both Smith and Drummond have been the most effective pairing on both offense and defense.

Wrong Smith can effectively hit a mid-range shoot and despite his crappy 3pt percentage has come up with some big very big 3's. The only reason why Moose has a better percentage shooting is because he refuses to leave the post area where he doesn't need to be.

[Murph]

Murph, Moose has 2 major flaws Defense and Mid Range and both are the main reasons as to why the three are meshing to begin with.  The fact that Smith is the more complete player out of the three at this point makes him more valuable than Moose.   IMO this wouldn't be working even if Joe didn't signed Smith over the summer because Moose and Drummond can't both effectively occupy the same space on the floor which is what Moose wants to do because he can't effectively step out and hit a 10 footer consistently enough.  

The reality is that Moose is hindering Drummonds development and Smiths effectiveness as viable and reliable post threat. I know everyone keeps wishing but Moose isn't the right match with Drummond long term, and he's the piece that is causing the most issues for the three of them working know.  

As far as Josh goes he doesn't need to get better as you said he's the most complete player of the three and even at 28 he's not some old dude that's on a decline.  Moose is a center, Andre is a center and this idea that they both can dominate offensively in the post is crazy.  You look an any twin tower scenario in NBA history and I assure you that at least one of those centers if not both were able to step out and be a threat deep and definitely at mid range.  We don't get this currently from either Andre or Moose.    

Smith can't hit an outside shot either, which is why he isn't playing SF very well.

Smith is a more complete player NOW.  But Smith is 28 years old, and in the very prime of his career.  Monroe is only 23.  In 5 years, Monroe will still be in his prime, while Smith will be declining.

IMO, it has yet to be determined which 2 of the big 3 play best together.  Whichever 2 play best together should start (another good application of +/- stats).  Unfortunately, I could not find those stats on line.

[WTF]

First, let me say that I doubt Joe is going to pull off any major trades ahead of the deadline.  I think Joe's going to hold onto his ass, and hope that the Pistons somehow right the ship and squeak into the playoffs with their current roster.

That said, if Joe HAD to trade one of the big 3 in order to improve chemistry, who would be the best option to go?  

Drummond is the youngest, has the most upside, and has the most affordable contract, so he's not going to go.

Monroe, is due for a big contract, but with the way his season is going, there's no way he'll command a contact any bigger than Smith's $14 mil per year.  More likely, Monroe will sign for around $12 million a year.  Also, Monroe is bigger, younger and a better rebounder than Smith.  Monroe's one major flaw is his defense.

Smith is the most complete player of the big three.  He can score down low, rebound and defend well.   But unfortunately, he does not seem to be able to play SF very effectively.      And at 28 years old, he isn't going to get any better.  He is what he is.  Smith's contract, however, might be difficult to move.


However, before Joe goes out and tries to trade one of his big 3, he needs to exhaust all other options, including bringing one of the big 3 off the bench, in order to start Singler.

Because if the Smith signing forces the Pistons to trade Monroe, that will have been another very poor, short-sighted transaction...similar to dumping Amir and Afflalo to sign Wilcox, or dumping Knight and Middleton for Jennings.

Murph, Moose has 2 major flaws Defense and Mid Range and both are the main reasons as to why the three are meshing to begin with. The fact that Smith is the more complete player out of the three at this point makes him more valuable than Moose. IMO this wouldn't be working even if Joe didn't signed Smith over the summer because Moose and Drummond can't both effectively occupy the same space on the floor which is what Moose wants to do because he can't effectively step out and hit a 10 footer consistently enough.

The reality is that Moose is hindering Drummonds development and Smiths effectiveness as viable and reliable post threat. I know everyone keeps wishing but Moose isn't the right match with Drummond long term, and he's the piece that is causing the most issues for the three of them working know.

As far as Josh goes he doesn't need to get better as you said he's the most complete player of the three and even at 28 he's not some old dude that's on a decline. Moose is a center, Andre is a center and this idea that they both can dominate offensively in the post is crazy. You look an any twin tower scenario in NBA history and I assure you that at least one of those centers if not both were able to step out and be a threat deep and definitely at mid range. We don't get this currently from either Andre or Moose.

[WTF]

Wise, Cheeks has actually gone on record stating he coaches a team whose parts don't fit? Well it's obvious Joe made another bad decision in picking a coach, because he can make the parts fit to construct a 8-9 man rotation that's better than what he's been running out on the floor; he should have added that the game has passed him by and he can't make in-game adjustments! Lil' Larry part 2. - DX

DX, I have to disagree with you on this as I've always said a coach is only as good as the talent he has and this team simply isn't as talented as many like to think. Coaches can't always make pieces fit, maybe if we were talking about one piece not fitting than perhaps a coach could.

This isn't Lil Larry Part 2, it's more like Fat Joe Part 5 because every coach since LB has had to deal with an imbalance roster, and very little in terms of bench production since 2005. No matter how he constructs that 8-9 man rotation it simply won't be effective without the correct pieces in place.

Wrong Pieces would be Moose, KCP, Bynum, and JJ. Two of these pieces sit in our starting lineup and though neither are lacking in talent they're both are not what this team needs are rather coming off the bench or starting. Neither Bynum or Chauncey fulfill the role of being an adequate back up to Jennings. Bringing Moose off the bench or starting him still presents the same issues rather he's on the floor with Drummond or Smith. It certainly doesn't address the issue of balance with roster nor does it address the fit issue when we still need a backup to Jennings and SF or PF capable of stretching the floor. I know you think highly of KCP but the fact that he's a score and not shooter makes him not a good fit unless you trade Stuckey and allow him to do what Stuckey does with the second unit.

[Murph]

First, let me say that I doubt Joe is going to pull off any major trades ahead of the deadline.  I think Joe's going to hold onto his ass, and hope that the Pistons somehow right the ship and squeak into the playoffs with their current roster.

That said, if Joe HAD to trade one of the big 3 in order to improve chemistry, who would be the best option to go?  

Drummond is the youngest, has the most upside, and has the most affordable contract, so he's not going to go.

Monroe, is due for a big contract, but with the way his season is going, there's no way he'll command a contact any bigger than Smith's $14 mil per year.  More likely, Monroe will sign for around $12 million a year.  Also, Monroe is bigger, younger and a better rebounder than Smith.  Monroe's one major flaw is his defense.

Smith is the most complete player of the big three.  He can score down low, rebound and defend well.   But unfortunately, he does not seem to be able to play SF very effectively.      And at 28 years old, he isn't going to get any better.  He is what he is.  Smith's contract, however, might be difficult to move.


However, before Joe goes out and tries to trade one of his big 3, he needs to exhaust all other options, including bringing one of the big 3 off the bench, in order to start Singler.

Because if the Smith signing forces the Pistons to trade Monroe, that will have been another very poor, short-sighted transaction...similar to dumping Amir and Afflalo to sign Wilcox, or dumping Knight and Middleton for Jennings.

[WTF]

I could be sold on Jim Caldwell as the new coach, because as a head coach he took the Colts to the Superbowl and he was the offensive coordinator on the Ravens Superbowl Championship team. These are bad credentials but the other thing that intrigues me is giving this job to a brother.

Including Stafford in the interview was only key for one reason IMO and that is Caldwell looked him in the face and told him he was a flawed passer. I don't want a head coach coming in here kissing Stafford ass right off and for Caldwell to sit there in the interview and point things out and tell Stafford what he needs to work on or in other-words going to work on was huge IMO.

[deusXango]

So, Cheeks has two options.

■He can ask Pistons president Joe Dumars to trade one of the three.

■He can bring one of them off the bench.

Option 2 is a tougher sell than No. 1. Smith makes more money than anybody else on the team, Monroe wants to get paid more, and Drummond is considered to be the future of the franchise.-Fan of 'da Moose (m'man Wise

Wise, Cheeks has actually gone on record stating he coaches a team whose parts don't fit? Well it's obvious Joe made another bad decision in picking a coach, because he can make the parts fit to construct a 8-9 man rotation that's better than what he's been running out on the floor; he should have added that the game has passed him by and he can't make in-game adjustments! Lil' Larry part 2.

If we were forced into taking option #1, Ryan Anderson is currently the best value out there, to fit our needs; many will point out that he doesn't play much defense (like Monroe is a defensive wizard), but ignore the fact that he's young, has great size, and is a long range phenom! All that said, he'd be a better fit in Detroit and wouldn't come close to commanding a max contract.

Option #2 is simple, to me, you play the talent and money; Drummond is more athletically talented than Monroe (who plays the same position of center), and Smith's contract demands have already been met...as a PF Smith is the better player IMHO. Why doesn't Cheeks have the balls to bring Monroe off the bench and insert Singler in the starting lineup? Can't he see, or doesn't he know his team well enough, to understand that Monroe and Stuckey would be more effective than Stuckey and Singler? The concept of a 2nd unit featuring Monroe and Harrellson in the paint, never crossed the mind of our experimenting coaches? Was it tried in the many practices held? Monroe wanting to get paid more shouldn't be a determining factor when it comes to how Cheeks deploys his rotational players.[/b]

[WTF]

The Bulls just conceded their playoff spots with trade of Deng and it just a matter of time before Brooklyn rights itself. What the hell are the Pistons going to do to right itself what trade can Joe come up with? Come On Dum Dum do something!

[WTF]

Auburn Hills — Maurice Cheeks is in a tough spot.

He coaches a team whose parts don’t fit, and he said Monday he doesn’t know what to do.

Here’s the solution.

Josh Smith, Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond are fine players. The thing is, they don’t work well together. Why? They’re at their best inside the paint — Drummond attacks the rim and dunks; Monroe likes to post up and play a finesse/power game; and Smith is best facing the bucket.

So, Cheeks has two options.

■He can ask Pistons president Joe Dumars to trade one of the three.

■He can bring one of them off the bench.

Option 2 is a tougher sell than No. 1. Smith makes more money than anybody else on the team, Monroe wants to get paid more, and Drummond is considered to be the future of the franchise.

So, if you can’t make a trade, the best bet is to have Drummond come off the bench.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140107/SPORTS0102/301070014#ixzz2piR94rgG


The safe bet would be to bring Drummond off the bench but it's not a long term solution having your franchise come off the bench and neither is it smart to bring your highest paid player off the bench.  Again we all know what piece isn't fitting but continue to want to hold on to it when it's been shown time and time again that both Andre and Josh is the most effective tandem.  

Great Moose can play great along side scrubs but can't shine when in a lineup with both Andre and Josh.  This is largely because his ass can't pop out and hit a mid range shot.

[Sponsored content]