Wise

[Oracle]

Too Funny!  This team stinks even last season team wasn't this bad.  

Last year we lost the paint battle almost every game, but we could score from the perimeter!

This year, Joe lost all of the perimeter shooting, and we win the paint almost every game, but we can't shoot!

Yes, Joe is to blame, but as I said, he tried, now he HAS to clean this mess up before Feb deadline!

[Oracle]

Jennings is not an elite PG in any way fashion or shape, even though I think he could be better in the right system, but he's too easily distracted!

I give Joe credit for trying, but this is a big problem right now, made worse by picking the wrong coach!

Having said that, getting rid of Jennings & Smith isn't the paradise it looks like!

Drummond is bench material no matter how much potential he has!

He keeps getting exposed, experience wise a lot this year!

Even though Josh is small for  a PF, we have to get him back there, and move Drummond to the bench or Moose to the bench, but if we keep Josh, he needs to play PF!

[WTF]

Too Funny! This team stinks even last season team wasn't this bad.

[Oracle]

Too small to be an effective PF, doesn't have the package to play SF, and is too dumb for either position!

[Oracle]

And hurting the team... WOW!

He isn't doing anything else right, so why bring everybody else down?

Poor Drummond! Going for up fakes 15 feet from the basket... sick!

[Oracle]

Is putrid!

Stupid fouls, constantly getting his stuff blocked!

If we win this one, it won't be because of him!

[Oracle]

It's amazing how these guys think that once the ball is in their hands that nobody else in in the gym and that they can get lazy with passes... DUMB!!!

[Oracle]

Wise, he's doing what you said, becoming a scorer!

KCP is moving without the ball, but more importantly, he tried to make an entry pass, and in the past, he would just stand there and keep trying!

But not tonight! KCP said screw it and took it to the ball straight to the rim!

But Josh attempts to post up, get doubled, and nobody is there for him to pass to... WTF is wrong with these guys!

As I type, Bynum's dumbass turns it over not paying attention!

[Oracle]

It's Time for Detroit Pistons to Abandon Failing Josh Smith Experiment

Same thing can be said about Moose as well in terms of TO's and FT shooting and his shooting is no worse that Jennings, Pope and Chauncey.  

It's not nit picking, Josh sucks  in a lot of areas in this system!

The article is correct in that if you use him right, the results would be different, but we don't, so they're correct right now!


Oh by the way, the ones that count have significantly less NBA experience than Josh, and none of them are getting paid 54M!

[WTF]

It's Time for Detroit Pistons to Abandon Failing Josh Smith Experiment

Same thing can be said about Moose as well in terms of TO's and FT shooting and his shooting is no worse that Jennings, Pope and Chauncey.

[Oracle]

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
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Josh Smith on if he got shot he wanted on last trip: "No, I didn't I'm still beating myself up because I could have been more aggressive."

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
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More Josh Smith: "I was one possession less aggressive tonight and I should have been most aggressive on that play right there.”

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
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Rodney Stuckey will give it a go tonight with his sore shoulder. Chauncey Billups, Mo Cheeks said, probably won't play

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
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Pistons open 4 of 13 and trail Toronto 10-8 after 5 minutes. Kyle Singler about to come on. Pistons yet to attack DeRozan with Smith much.

[Oracle]

It's Time for Detroit Pistons to Abandon Failing Josh Smith Experiment

[Oracle]

He'll start to believe me when I say it's 90% coaching!

You're right, Cheeks appears to suffer Frank's disease of making sure he never does anything that's worked, and always go the crap that fails!

Just like Frank, the reward for being consistently good is a spot on the bench for extended periods! However, I believe that the reason is that once things get good, they go back to their original plan, hoping it will work, and it never does!

Then again, you may be right in that it's what Joe wants is the reason the go back, but whatever it is, it's all stupid!

On Movement: This is all coaching again! Only Singler disregards the dumb plays given by Cheeks and improvises! Everyone else follows the script!

The problem is that there's no movement because they don't practice plays that involve movement, it's not part of the coaches design, and even Frank was better at this than Cheeks!

In fact, I'm struggling to figure out just what Cheeks is good at other than making a home inside of Stuckey's cheeks!

[Phil-Good]

When your team can't get it done in the 3rd and 4th quarters, it falls on the leader of the team shoulders. And unless the Pistons have A Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant type of closer that we don't have, Jennings has to take that responsibility.


Jennings is not that high quality of A point guard. I give the Kid credit. He step is game up this year but the Pistons need A TRUE leader and A closer at the PG position.

[deusXango]

Sebastian, I agree, we look like sh!t and it's depressing.

Jennings is not the PG we need, plain and simple; a showboating knucklehead, who only knows how to play "me ball."

Murph, you've posed the most damning indictment, that should be a career killer for Joe, when you posted: "I can't believe Joe passed on Trey Burke...hugely popular...a local hero...a natural born leader and winner...and widely regarded as the best PG in the draft.  He fell right into Joe's lap...again...and Joe passed." We have no leadership on the team, nor are we getting any intelligent play from the PG position; fans are beginning to revile Jennings, more and more.

Wise, I too want to know what's up with Harrellson dwindling PT. This is why I called Mo Cheeks, Lil' Larry Part 2! If it's working, break it, and call it a fix.

Don, you've constantly pointed out the lack of defensive effort, the uselessness of Bynum, and the absence of fundamental play; I didn't listen as closely as I should have and now I can see how these things are killing this season. Other teams have players in the D-League, or buried on their bench, that are better than players being used in our rotation!

Oracle, shake it off, there are more stunning losses to come; as a Lions fan you should be prepared for a comedy of errors ending to games. Shameful.

Now, will someone tell me, when Chauncey is dribbling down the court all cool like (just before the ball is ripped from him), WTF is he pointing at??!!

[deusXango]

Sebastian, I agree, we look like sh!t and it's depressing.

Jennings is not the PG we need, plain and simple; a showboating knucklehead, who only knows how to play "me ball."

Murph, you've posed the most damning indictment, that should be a career killer for Joe, when you posted: "I can't believe Joe passed on Trey Burke...hugely popular...a local hero...a natural born leader and winner...and widely regarded as the best PG in the draft.  He fell right into Joe's lap...again...and Joe passed." We have no leadership on the team, nor are we getting any intelligent play from the PG position; fans are beginning to revile Jennings, more and more.

Wise, I too want to know what's up with Harrellson dwindling PT. This is why I called Mo Cheeks, Lil' Larry Part 2! If it's working, break it, and call it a fix.

Don, you've constantly pointed out the lack of defensive effort, the uselessness of Bynum, and the absence of fundamental play; I didn't listen as closely as I should have and now I can see how these things are killing this season. Other teams have players in the D-League, or buried on their bench, that are better than players being used in our rotation!

Oracle, shake it off, there are more stunning losses to come; as a Lions fan you should be prepared for a comedy of errors ending to games. Shameful.

Now, will someone tell me, when Chauncey is dribbling down the court all cool like (just before the ball is ripped from him), WTF is he pointing at??!!

[Murph]

I share the same observations as do my fellow Piston Pals. WE look like straight sh!t. It is damn depressing, the way that OUR guys are playing.

Back to Brandon Jennings. Did anybody see, the pass that Jennings offered to Dre when there was a two-on-one fastbreak involving Jennings and Dre on Raymond Felton when the score was 86-84, late in the NY game.

First off, B. Jennings gave the ball up too soon to Dre in the transition and the pass should had been an ally, not a f@ckin' bounce pass. The bounce pass allowed Felton to stop Dre from finishing and put him on the line for two, as Dre was fouled by Felton on the play. If B. Jennings would had taken a couple more dribbles and toss the ally to Dre, it probably would had been an And-1, tying the game with a chance to go up one. (Dre was 1-2 from the line on this particular play.)

B. Jennings is an And-1 Street Ball PG. That's it!

Sebastian...excellent post.  I agree 100%.  Jennings has the talent to fool people.  For example he threw in 55 points or something in one game his rookie year.  After that Bucks fans kept waiting on it to happen again. Finally after waiting for 4 yearsm, they gave up on him.  Joe was apparently enamored with Jennings' talent also.  The problem is, Jennings apparently doesn't have what it takes between the ears.  We have Jennings for another 2 1/2 years.   Hmmm.....


I can't believe Joe passed on Trey Burke...hugely popular...a local hero...a natural born leader and winner...and widely regarded as the best PG in the draft.  He fell right into Joe's lap...again...and Joe passed. That one is going to be Joe's last huge blunder.  This season is going south fast, and Joe's career in Detroit is going right along with it.   

[Sebastian]

Why is it that WE have read reports about the severity and rehab plan for Chris Paul's injured shoulder, but WE don't know a damn thing about my boy, Rodney Stuckey's shoulder injury. Will he be about 4-6 weeks, too.

Stuckey has not played about two full weeks. He did attempt to play the first halves of the last two games he appeared in, 10-12 days ago.

What is up with Stuckey Detroit sports media, Mo', Arnie, and/or Joe?!

[Sebastian]

I share the same observations as do my fellow Piston Pals. WE look like straight sh!t. It is damn depressing, the way that OUR guys are playing.

Back to Brandon Jennings. Did anybody see, the pass that Jennings offered to Dre when there was a two-on-one fastbreak involving Jennings and Dre on Raymond Felton when the score was 86-84, late in the NY game.

First off, B. Jennings gave the ball up too soon to Dre in the transition and the pass should had been an ally, not a f@ckin' bounce pass. The bounce pass allowed Felton to stop Dre from finishing and put him on the line for two, as Dre was fouled by Felton on the play. If B. Jennings would had taken a couple more dribbles and toss the ally to Dre, it probably would had been an And-1, tying the game with a chance to go up one. (Dre was 1-2 from the line on this particular play.)

B. Jennings is an And-1 Street Ball PG. That's it!

[WTF]

In addition to Charlie IMO Josh Harrellson would have been a better option in that moment as well. What I find confusing is the decrease minutes next to nil that Harrellson has gotten over the last 10 games or so. The guy has played hard, and smartly at every moment of PT he's played this season on both ends of the floor.

Now this sh!t does remind me of last season with Frank as coach, the minute sh!t begin to work he would find away to undo it and Cheeks seem to be doing the same fu@king thing with Harrellson. Part of the reason Smith is having a slow go at adjusting to the SF spot is that every time Andre or Moose gets into foul trouble Cheeks opts to slide him into the PF spot and bring in Singler oppose to Harrellson which seems silly. Why not bring in Singler oppose to Chauncey since we have no Stuckey and Harrellson when Moose or Andre come out and leave Smith at the SF.

It's like Cheeks is scare to coach this team, I know it's not without it's flaws but there is **** he can do to help. Harrellson not playing reeks of interference by Joe.

[cool breeze]

I'm not going to blast Josh this morning about the shot he even though I was screaming don't take it. But Don makes a valid point about that last play in that no one was moving and the only one wanting the ball or even trying to get into some kind of position was Josh as Jennings pounded the ball.  

I'm not going to blast Josh this morning because we don't get in a position to win this game without him on the court. Half the turnovers he had ( should have resulted in foul calls on NY and it's hard to be pissed about 21pt, 12 reb, 3stls, 2 blocks and 5ast.   Smith did a decent Job on Melo but when Melo hot he's hot.

The line up should have remain as Charlie, Smith, Singler, Andre and Jennings.  Charlie would have at least given Jennings another option to pass to or at least gave him a lane to the basket. Instead we got no movement from three players and a crowded post area with Jennings having not pass to go other than Josh.  No one should be sh!tting mad he missed because they weren't sh!tting made when he hit a big three to pull them within 3 and made 1 of 2 from the FT line to close it to 2.  

I'm not mad at Jennings I am pissed at the other three players who stood motionless as Jennings looked for options. Singler sat in a corner, Moose ran he ass to the post are, and Andre is only an option under the basket. IMO it's Moose's persistence to run into the post that took away cutting options for Singler, and made any entry to pass to Andre impossible, and crowded the lanes so Jennings couldn't penetrate.  Everyone and their mama know that Charlie would have been parked on the perimeter and the spacing would have been a sh!t load better.  

Moosefan you made a good point relating to spacing issues created by our big men in that big possession at the end. Everyone who attended the game or watched on television knew that Detroit would try to get the ball to Josh Smith but I wonder if the play set up wasn't messed up by Smith himself. Singler was at his proper spot on the floor at the time. Smith was too close to Singler when he received the ball. Jennings should have shot the ball instead of making such a difficult pass which required Smith to go out further than he was supposed to be. But the glaring error was made my Monroe as you pointed out. Detroit seems to play one end of the court all the time during crunch time. They never swing the basketball from side to side but who on the left side of the court last night could you trust for the final shot? Charlie V would have been a better option on the left side if he had been in the game. But Charlie V is not a real NBA player who anyone can have trust in Moosefan. We fans can think up a lot of stuff that could have worked but the basic roster is flawed so badly and it all comes out in crunch time when real NBA players step up and work hard to get open because they believe in themselves enough to want the basketball. Joe Dumars is the one employee of the Pistons that I do not have trust in anymore. I can't think of any basketball person that I know who would have signed this group of players. Unless the Pistons can build up a huge lead, we can expect to lose every game like this game. New York played so badly that our Pistons appeared to be better than they really are right now by keeping the game close. The players do not even believe in Joe Dumars creation. If I were the coach, I would be dreading the start of every game knowing who I would have to play at the guard positions.

[cool breeze]

What can the NBA front off come up with to sell basketball fans on the NBA game especially when you see how the Eastern conference teams play the game. Is this a sign of Eastern conference teams being stocked with college players who only played one year of basketball in college. I am all for changing the rules to force players to stay in college for at least 2 years before they can enter the draft.

Last night New York played a horrible game. The only thing that New York fans could get excited about was about two minutes where Anthony hit three or four long range shots in a row. Notice that our Pistons allowed Anthony to get open for wide open shots in that sequence. What kind of lame team does that? Oracle has pointed out the coach Cheeks is slow to call timeouts. I would like to get his reasoning for not reacting quicker. I suspect that he is out of ideas because of the limitations he has on this current roster. There are few options. In other words, he cannot trust very many players on this team to do the right thing.

In the previous post from Oracle, I noticed a comment that Bynum was improving. Oracle please look closer. Bynum is giving up too much on defense. When he first came in the game in the first half, Bynum when for two possessions without guarding anyone. At one time the team was playing a zone but Bynum seemed lost n that defense. Then as the game wore on, Bynum made a lot of mistakes with the ball in his hands creating turnovers. He had a tough time keeping up with Smith who had 8 turnovers half way through the 3rd quarter but I personally have no faith in Bynum even though Cheeks has a lot of trust in this player. Does he trust him because both are from Chicago?

Charlie V missed all of his outside shots again but did post up and looked better than Monroe in crunch time on both ends of the floor. But one must remember that Detroit was playing New York which was a team that was playing horrible basketball last night. My choice to get more minutes would be Harrellison. Josh is only a 3rd year player and can get a lot better if he gets more minutes. As this season is another learning year where expectations have to be very low, why not admit that fact. Also nobody knows what Monroe will do after this season so Detroit needs to get guys like Harrellison ready for next season. I would call up Siva as well and give him the minutes that Billups and Bynum are getting. everything should be geared for next year. This has been the theme for a lot of years but we need to face facts and admit that the guards on this current Piston team are horrible. I think that last night no Piston guard scored a point until midway into the 2nd quarter when Bynum scored a layup. But lack of the ability to play defense or make other players better relating to our guards will prevent this team from moving forward in a positive direction. I am for bringing up some D league guards starting now.

The game last night was played at a pitiful level by both teams. The college games are much more meaningful. If you had a chance to watch Oregon vs Colorado this past weekend, you saw some real spirited basketball being played. I attended the Arizona vs Washington game on Saturday and couldn't help but notice how intense the game was and how invested the players were in that game. I would be looking at CJ Wilcox from Washington in the coming draft. He is a big guard who can really score and plays smart. And CJ can play defense. Also, I would be looking at Nick Johnson from Arizona. Right now, Johnson is only a junior in college but is head and shoulders above any guard on the Piston roster. He can play both guard positions and is one of the best defenders in college basketball. He has size, speed and can jump so high he often blocks shots in the paint put up by opposing big men. Johnson also is looking to make plays and makes other players around him look better. Johnson and Wilcox have stayed in college and have become superior players because of it. They both work at least 10 hours a day in the off season on their weaknesses and shooting stroke. There are no secrets to getting better. It takes hard work. You need to be blessed with superior body to play this game but the hard work makes you what you are. And our Piston guards have not put in the necessary work along the way and cannot break bad habits now. Plus our guards are way too small to be effective defenders in the current NBA game. No other GM in the NBA would have selected this group of guards to move forward with in this current season but Joe Dumars. The owners need to take a hard look at this issue.

[WTF]

I'm not going to blast Josh this morning about the shot he even though I was screaming don't take it. But Don makes a valid point about that last play in that no one was moving and the only one wanting the ball or even trying to get into some kind of position was Josh as Jennings pounded the ball.

I'm not going to blast Josh this morning because we don't get in a position to win this game without him on the court. Half the turnovers he had ( should have resulted in foul calls on NY and it's hard to be pissed about 21pt, 12 reb, 3stls, 2 blocks and 5ast. Smith did a decent Job on Melo but when Melo hot he's hot.

The line up should have remain as Charlie, Smith, Singler, Andre and Jennings. Charlie would have at least given Jennings another option to pass to or at least gave him a lane to the basket. Instead we got no movement from three players and a crowded post area with Jennings having not pass to go other than Josh. No one should be sh!tting mad he missed because they weren't sh!tting made when he hit a big three to pull them within 3 and made 1 of 2 from the FT line to close it to 2.

I'm not mad at Jennings I am pissed at the other three players who stood motionless as Jennings looked for options. Singler sat in a corner, Moose ran he ass to the post are, and Andre is only an option under the basket. IMO it's Moose's persistence to run into the post that took away cutting options for Singler, and made any entry to pass to Andre impossible, and crowded the lanes so Jennings couldn't penetrate. Everyone and their mama know that Charlie would have been parked on the perimeter and the spacing would have been a sh!t load better.

[cool breeze]

@Sparma - This was an interesting game! When they were down by 17, I thought they were doomed, but behind the stellar play of Singler and the looking better Bynum, and timely contributions by Charlie V, the Pistons came back!

At that point, I thought that I wouldn't be upset, even if they lost, because the comeback was so unexpected... Man was I wrong!

The rest of this dovetails on what @Merc & @Sissy had to say!

It was again the Josh & Jennings cluster fu#k show!

That last shot by Josh made my stomach turn so much that I couldn't come on here and comment until now! Was that the best we could do? Why in the world do they play one way to get the lead, and another once it's time to close the deal!

Josh hit NOTHING, that sh!t wasn't even close to the rim! But Cheeks decides to either take out the guys that brought us back, or worse, not go to them and let them earn either the win or loss!

But Josh had a lot of help from Jennings! I tell you, once we get close, or get a lead, something in Jennings head says... Jack up a shot early in the clock when we have no rebounders past half court, and that's a good idea!

When he isn't pounding the damn ball, he's jacking up ill advised shots! Between these two basketball IQ dummies, we'll never have a chance!

To be honest, Josh may screw up, but at least he can be controlled if we had the right PG, who would have never delivered him the pill because you know what he's going to do 20 feet from the hoop!

But let's not forget Cheeks dumb ass, because while the opposing coach wisely calls timeouts whenever we get close, good old Cheeks loves to wait until we're 8-12 points down to stop the action and ask WTF is going on!


Cheeks is the slowest reacting coach on the planet! I guess sitting with all of those fans with their fingers up his arse is too hard to focus on what the players are doing!


I don't know, but my new word is looking like D E B A C L E, and it's chapping my hide!!!

When I remember the way Chauncey came in like a Lion, threatening Knight that he was here to be the starting PG, and looking at him now, he's such a joke, and if he truly loved the Pistons, he'd stop playing tomorrow and tell Joe to get someone to take his place!

What a steaming pile this season is becoming!

That about covers it Oracle. But the reason why Jennings keeps pounding the basketball is that his teammates are not moving without the basketball. Our big men appear to be too tired to move around once they run from defense to offense. There is no offense or a plan to execute anything in the half court offense. Being that the players are not hard to guard because they don't move, the point guard is left to move around with the basketball. I thought Jennings should have attempted the shot instead of passing the ball to Smith who really had no options and perhaps wasn't aware of the amount of time left in the game.

One final comment that you missed that could have been big was the fact that Monroe failed to box out on the missed free throw which allowed Anthony to get the rebound. It looked like Anthony committed a foul in that situation pushing Monroe under the basket. But being that Monroe is bigger than Anthony there is no excuse for Monroe allowing himself to be pushed too far under the basket to do anything. By the way this happens to Monroe a lot. Take a look in the next game and see how many times Monroe cannot establish position in the proper location under the basket to secure rebounds. He is under the rim a lot and must be an easy guy to push around. With that said, Monroe had a much better all around game last night.

[Oracle]

@Sparma - This was an interesting game! When they were down by 17, I thought they were doomed, but behind the stellar play of Singler and the looking better Bynum, and timely contributions by Charlie V, the Pistons came back!

At that point, I thought that I wouldn't be upset, even if they lost, because the comeback was so unexpected... Man was I wrong!

The rest of this dovetails on what @Merc & @Sissy had to say!

It was again the Josh & Jennings cluster fu#k show!

That last shot by Josh made my stomach turn so much that I couldn't come on here and comment until now! Was that the best we could do? Why in the world do they play one way to get the lead, and another once it's time to close the deal!

Josh hit NOTHING, that sh!t wasn't even close to the rim! But Cheeks decides to either take out the guys that brought us back, or worse, not go to them and let them earn either the win or loss!

But Josh had a lot of help from Jennings! I tell you, once we get close, or get a lead, something in Jennings head says... Jack up a shot early in the clock when we have no rebounders past half court, and that's a good idea!

When he isn't pounding the damn ball, he's jacking up ill advised shots! Between these two basketball IQ dummies, we'll never have a chance!

To be honest, Josh may screw up, but at least he can be controlled if we had the right PG, who would have never delivered him the pill because you know what he's going to do 20 feet from the hoop!

But let's not forget Cheeks dumb ass, because while the opposing coach wisely calls timeouts whenever we get close, good old Cheeks loves to wait until we're 8-12 points down to stop the action and ask WTF is going on!


Cheeks is the slowest reacting coach on the planet! I guess sitting with all of those fans with their fingers up his arse is too hard to focus on what the players are doing!


I don't know, but my new word is looking like D E B A C L E, and it's chapping my hide!!!

When I remember the way Chauncey came in like a Lion, threatening Knight that he was here to be the starting PG, and looking at him now, he's such a joke, and if he truly loved the Pistons, he'd stop playing tomorrow and tell Joe to get someone to take his place!

What a steaming pile this season is becoming!

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