Oh Yeah!!!

[Oracle]

I wonder if this rumor is spreading to every NBA team this summer. Fans from every NBA team might read something that their team might sign Collins. I was worried some regarding the Pistons because maybe the owners thought by signing Collins they would sell more season tickets within the Gay community. Those seats were empty last year and something had to be done. I guess the team owners decided to spend their money on real players to ignite a spark. Winning will do it. I wonder if some team owner might sign Collins just to cause attention and lure non basketball fans to leave home to watch Collins sit the bench. Will Collins try to sue the NBA if nobody signs him this year? This guy's playing career has been over for 3 years.  

 
Joe D does NOT seek publicity from the media!  This has Gores' name on it 100%!  Selling tickets?  Maybe.  I suspect one of his California buddies asked for a "solid" to bring up Collins' situation to the media to keep it as a subject.  
 
Another possibility is that Gores (being a business-savvy man) that he wants to prevent getting hit (along with the rest of the NBA teams) with a legal suit that Collins may start b/c of discrimination.  Hey, just covering the topic as it may play out.

That's right, it's the Gores Hollywood Publicity Machine!

Now the idea of keeping the Pistons in the eye of the media is a good one! That was one of the highlights of the Larry Brown years!

If LB farted, the media was inspecting it for bits and pieces! That kept players honest too because if LB wanted to, he could out you so quick your head would spin! But it kept us relevant at all times!

So Gores is correct in what he's trying to do, he's just piss poor at doing it! Where LB played the media like a fine instrument, Gores is a clutz chasing a beautiful woman!

The idea is to get attention, but not be so obviously planting stuff to get that attention.

So the Gores machine gives us the Phil Jackson debacle! Ok, I forgave him for that one because he was probably trying to help a friend get back in the news while also doing the same for the Pistons, but most people saw through it and it made the organization look stupid!

Then they give us the Jason Collins episode! While the Phil Jackson deal at least took some time to figure out, this dumb attempt was obvious before the ink on the press release dried!

So good ideas, but horrible execution has been Gores trademark so far, IMO!

[deusXango]

Debating in a vacuum is normal in these parts, but drawing conclusions in a vacuum is tricky business.

I'm as big a homer as the next guy, but there's a very solid reason this team isn't getting rave reviews for the moves Joe made.

All of the parts are there(like Frankenstein), but it's hard to see how they fit!

Murph's point sheds a lot of light on the reasons! He's right that it's likely that you would see a lot of Monroe/Smith! On paper, that's the most potent offensive pairing possible, and Smith may provide enough defense to make it work on the other end, especially if Monroe improves even slightly defensively!

Drummond is a better DeAndre Jordan with hopes of being a Ben Wallace type game changer on defense. Drummond is so offensively limited, that his minutes are likely going to reflect that.

You can't base an offense on lob city dunks! It work great in the regular season, but hasn't seen much success in the playoffs(see Clippers).

However, you don't get to the playoffs if you don't win regular season games, so Drummond is going to get significant minutes, I just don't think you can base your offense around much that he does, and we need to look at how best to use him.

I've said all of that to say that it's hard to say who to trade when we don't know how all of the pieces fit!

Until we work out the structure of this team, there's a LOT of question marks at almost every position!

For us, this year, figuring out the STARTING LINEUP is going to literally be just the START!

Oracle, this is more of a Jekyll and Hyde than a Frankenstein; for the pieces to fit properly, we're going to have a team of dual personalities, which could play to our favor if Cheeks keeps his head in the games. I'm entering the vacuum chamber, so please show patience with me.

Fans want to see, and rightly so, Andre Drummond start, because he's the future big man stud on this team, so start him! Play him for 5 minutes and sit his ass down, while moving the frontline line-up in that'll get us to the playoffs: Monroe at center, Smith at PF, and Singler at SF. Singler is the only player who's ego can handle being used that way; 6th man of the year? KCP should be starting with Jennings A.S.A.P. and I don't see any valid reasons why not. His defensive fire on the perimeter will compensate for the lack of defense played by Jennings, plus he's our stud rookie and possible alpha scorer (the sooner we know exactly what we have the better). We need Billups on the 2nd unit for a number of valid reasons, the basic one is the leadership/stabilization of a bench which can be the strength of this team, consisting of a backcourt of him and Siva, and a frontline of Drummond at center, Mitchell at PF, and Datome at SF. There's undeniable chemistry between Drummond and Siva already (they genuinely seem to "click"), Mitchell is a man-monster who pairs better with Drummond than Maxiell did with Monroe, IMHO, and the floor spreading shooting of Datome and Billups is something that I can't see any 2nd units around the league defending! If the starters and the 2nd unit went at each other in spirited practices, "Bad Boys" style, and Mo Cheeks controlled the flow of a 10 man rotation like Chuck Daly and Rick Carlisle, he's in the running for Coach of the Year. Whether Joe makes a trade or not, Cheeks needs to show the "stones" to sit Bynum, Stuckey, CV, and Jerebko until their time of need arrives. The real game is the one played between Cheeks and Dumars for complete control of this team; Joe assembled it, but it's Cheeks job to run it as he sees fit.

Those are my thoughts from a vacuum, but then again, they may be thoughts in a vacuum.

[lemonpen]

I like hustle as much as the next fan does, but I like defense better and I love offense but, I think Singler and JJ are expendable because overall they have the least to offer. If you saw Mitchell in Summer League you have to see this kid is going to be special.  I honestly see this kid backing up Josh at SF.

Wise, your statement speaks volumes for me; the new competition for back-up minutes at SF should be between Datome and Mitchell, and as much as I like him, Jerebko should be traded. There is some dead weight (other than Stuckey and CV) on this roster that shouldn't be here next year, much less this year! The players I want to see, but won't, are KCP, Mitchell, Siva, and Datome; I'd love to see them play prominent roles in our rotation, but the perceived important need of veterans will make that impossible. The excuse this time, for non-development of talent, is the goal of making the playoffs.

We should not be afraid of good healthy competition. Allow JJ and Kyle the opportunity to either prove their worth or make the next guy better.
I only hope Cheeks understands exactly what he wants from them.

[Oracle]

Jennette McCurdy of iCarly fame? Seriously???

Is she cute? Well, maybe in some sense... but with his talent and money, he could do a hell of a lot better! Wake up Bro, the world is your oyster and this one is a minnow!


But she's also 5'2, and I bet Drummond has dumps that are close to 5'2, WTF is he going to do with a chick that little?

Drummond needs to leave the chicks alone(except for groupies, and wear industrial strength condoms), until his taste and sight matures!

[WTF]

IMO I think the only question mark are with who starts in the back-court, but agree someone that we won't know for certain how the rotation of players will play out. One thing is definite and certain is that the front-court needs a solid backup center which is why I think talking trade now is still viable. Getting a true solid back via the trading of 2 tweeners like Singler and JJ who we either have a great knowledge of like JJ or some knowledge of like Singler give a more definitive idea of what the make up of the roster should be.

We all know that Drummond, Monroe and Smith are all locks in the starting rotation, and you can almost say that Jennings will likely get the nod at PG, I think the biggest question is who makes it at the SG spot as a starter (Billups, or Stuckey). The problem with keeping guys like Singler, Bynum, and JJ are that they complicate the roster and the last thing Cheek needs is the same roster issues that plagued the two previous coaching staffs. There are 4 rookies on the roster (Siva, Mitchell, KCP and Datome) capable of providing the same level play as the previous three mention players. Bynum, Singler and JJ should be able to land us solid F/C in trade.

Trade needed before regular season starts.

[Oracle]

Solution: Cheikh Samb. Do you guys remember Cheikh Samb, the 7'1", shot blocking machine that was on OUR roster, during the 2007-2008 season? He's currently playing in Saudi Arabia. I imagine he would be glad to earn $455,000 sitting at the end of the Pistons bench.

I remember that Laker game! After that game I thought we had struck gold with Samb, and we needed size in the worst way back then!

I would prefer to get a younger guy like Samb than another long in the tooth dude like Collins!

[Oracle]

Debating in a vacuum is normal in these parts, but drawing conclusions in a vacuum is tricky business.

I'm as big a homer as the next guy, but there's a very solid reason this team isn't getting rave reviews for the moves Joe made.

All of the parts are there(like Frankenstein), but it's hard to see how they fit!

Murph's point sheds a lot of light on the reasons! He's right that it's likely that you would see a lot of Monroe/Smith! On paper, that's the most potent offensive pairing possible, and Smith may provide enough defense to make it work on the other end, especially if Monroe improves even slightly defensively!

Drummond is a better DeAndre Jordan with hopes of being a Ben Wallace type game changer on defense. Drummond is so offensively limited, that his minutes are likely going to reflect that.

You can't base an offense on lob city dunks! It work great in the regular season, but hasn't seen much success in the playoffs(see Clippers).

However, you don't get to the playoffs if you don't win regular season games, so Drummond is going to get significant minutes, I just don't think you can base your offense around much that he does, and we need to look at how best to use him.

I've said all of that to say that it's hard to say who to trade when we don't know how all of the pieces fit!

Until we work out the structure of this team, there's a LOT of question marks at almost every position!

For us, this year, figuring out the STARTING LINEUP is going to literally be just the START!

[Sebastian]

Solution: Cheikh Samb. Do you guys remember Cheikh Samb, the 7'1", shot blocking machine that was on OUR roster, during the 2007-2008 season? He's currently playing in Saudi Arabia. I imagine he would be glad to earn $455,000 sitting at the end of the Pistons bench.

[deusXango]

I like hustle as much as the next fan does, but I like defense better and I love offense but, I think Singler and JJ are expendable because overall they have the least to offer. If you saw Mitchell in Summer League you have to see this kid is going to be special.  I honestly see this kid backing up Josh at SF.

Wise, your statement speaks volumes for me; the new competition for back-up minutes at SF should be between Datome and Mitchell, and as much as I like him, Jerebko should be traded. There is some dead weight (other than Stuckey and CV) on this roster that shouldn't be here next year, much less this year! The players I want to see, but won't, are KCP, Mitchell, Siva, and Datome; I'd love to see them play prominent roles in our rotation, but the perceived important need of veterans will make that impossible. The excuse this time, for non-development of talent, is the goal of making the playoffs.

[WTF]

I'm expecting at least one of these two (Singler or JJ) will be moved before the start of the season to address the need for a backup center. IMO the biggest issue we could have is playing Josh too many minutes at power forward and Monroe too many minute at center even though both are very capable leaving them in their natural position would be wise.

Charlie is very capable of backing up Monroe at PF in fact he's perfect for it. Here the problem many have with this is that the expectation again are far reaching in wanting Charlie to be something he's not. If Cheeks don't make the same mistakes of the two previous coaches Charlie could very well be a Sixth Man candidate.

Josh Smith needs to get back to his natural position (Small Forward) and stay there. Mitchell isn't a NBA power forward and should be seriously competing for back up time at power forward and if Italian MVP is as deadly an outside shooter a projected and advertised then both Singler and JJ should be headed out and Joe need to be seriously looking to acquire a serviceable back center or one that could at least push Drummond.

I like hustle as much as the next fan does, but I like defense better and I love offense but, I think Singler and JJ are expendable because overall they have the least to offer. If you saw Mitchell in Summer League you have to see this kid is going to be special. I honestly see this kid backing up Josh at SF.

[deusXango]

I think Monroe will play a good deal of back-up center this season, and Smith will play a good deal of back-up PF this season, which means that there will be a fair amount of minutes available for a back-up SF.

I'm hoping Singler beats out the one dimensional Luigi for most of those reserve SF minutes.

Murph, your thinking is sound, regarding the back-up time at center and PF, but what leads you to believe that Datome is a one dimensional SF? Even though he has a beautiful jump shot, his numbers weren't staggering enough to earn the Italian league MVP on scoring alone. If height is all it's been cracked up to be, Gigi is 6' 10" compared to Singler's 6' 8"; who's the better defender, the more willing and adept passer, should be the determining factor for who dominates the back-up time at SF. I'm hoping that Mitchell doesn't get "cubby holed," like J.J., into being confused as a PF over SF, because of his height, as that'll mean it's just a matter of time before Datome becomes a PF, in the eyes of fans, simply because he's 6' 10"!

If Singler has improved on his 3 point shot and worked on his lateral movement this off-season, he'll probably be our best candidate for back-up SG/SF, with the emphasis on SG. There's no doubt in my mind that with his combination of youth, size, strength, skills, and smarts, he and KCP are the best SG's on this team; many will be against this because it'll limit the sentimental favorites (Billups and Stuckey) time on the floor. Speaking of limited floor time, how much time will our 3rd string center get? If all we're looking for is 6 hard fouls, and minimal offense from our 3rd string center, why aren't we looking at Charlie V. in that role? The value of that 15th roster spot is that we leave it open at this time; we don't have enough time for the players we have under contract now, so why sign another one? We have no obligation to Collins, whatsoever, and that's all I'm going to say on that matter.

[Murph]

I think Singler will get a fair amout of playing time this year.  He must improve his outside shooting, especially from the 3 point line, but IMO, he will probably have a great deal more to offer than Luigi Datome.  Singler is active, hustles, moves well without the ball, looks to set up teammates, and plays decent defense. Luigi, OTOH, can shoot.

I think Monroe will play a good deal of back-up center this season, and Smith will play a good deal of back-up PF this season, which means that there will be a fair amount of minutes available for a back-up SF.

I'm hoping Singler beats out the one dimensional Luigi for most of those reserve SF minutes.

[Murph]

Poor Delonte West, he just can't get no respect - ‘Self-loathing’ Delonte West discusses negative effects of arrest, Gloria James rumors

Predictions abound, I found this on the InterWebs:

Yes...those odds seems about right to me. I think the Pistons could end up 6th, 7th, or 8th, but in general, those standings seem realistic.

[Go Stones!]

Poor Delonte West, he just can't get no respect - ‘Self-loathing’ Delonte West discusses negative effects of arrest, Gloria James rumors

Predictions abound, I found this on the InterWebs:

I don't think the Heat, Nets, Knicks will win that many games. I don't think some of the bad teams will win that many games.

How do the Pistons win that many games? They will win at least 40. I think we beat out the Hawks team.

Lakers will NOT win that many games... I also believe the Spurs will pull out more games than what they are projecting.

[Go Stones!]

I wonder if this rumor is spreading to every NBA team this summer. Fans from every NBA team might read something that their team might sign Collins. I was worried some regarding the Pistons because maybe the owners thought by signing Collins they would sell more season tickets within the Gay community. Those seats were empty last year and something had to be done. I guess the team owners decided to spend their money on real players to ignite a spark. Winning will do it. I wonder if some team owner might sign Collins just to cause attention and lure non basketball fans to leave home to watch Collins sit the bench. Will Collins try to sue the NBA if nobody signs him this year? This guy's playing career has been over for 3 years.  

 
Joe D does NOT seek publicity from the media!  This has Gores' name on it 100%!  Selling tickets?  Maybe.  I suspect one of his California buddies asked for a "solid" to bring up Collins' situation to the media to keep it as a subject.  
 
Another possibility is that Gores (being a business-savvy man) that he wants to prevent getting hit (along with the rest of the NBA teams) with a legal suit that Collins may start b/c of discrimination.  Hey, just covering the topic as it may play out.

[Oracle]

Poor Delonte West, he just can't get no respect - ‘Self-loathing’ Delonte West discusses negative effects of arrest, Gloria James rumors

Predictions abound, I found this on the InterWebs:

[cool breeze]

I wonder if this rumor is spreading to every NBA team this summer. Fans from every NBA team might read something that their team might sign Collins. I was worried some regarding the Pistons because maybe the owners thought by signing Collins they would sell more season tickets within the Gay community. Those seats were empty last year and something had to be done. I guess the team owners decided to spend their money on real players to ignite a spark. Winning will do it. I wonder if some team owner might sign Collins just to cause attention and lure non basketball fans to leave home to watch Collins sit the bench. Will Collins try to sue the NBA if nobody signs him this year? This guy's playing career has been over for 3 years.

[cool breeze]

Jennings is a risk, but IMO, a good one! His contract is very movable, but a poor performance would make it harder to move, and history shows that there are few takers for a PG like Jennings once he's soured on his current team!

Oracle, this is exactly what I've been saying about Stuckey!! No takers for this played out combo guard/PG/SG/SF, or whatever you want to call him, and we're still dead set on keeping him around to poison the sweet waters of new hope. We took the risk with Stuckey and LOST; what does it take for that fact to sink in? 10-12 years of what we've gotten for the last 5? SH!!!!!!T.

This is why I became worried when coach Cheeks informed the press that he was looking to Stuckey to be a team leader this season. Why in hell would a new coach say that if he had any idea what kind of player Stuckey has been? He didn't say the same thing to any of the other players did he? Yet an interview with Dumars revealed that Cheeks is going to see who brings in when training camp starts. My problem with Stuckey and Charlie V is the fact that we fans could never count on those players to bring in or play hard consistently. They both played better early on in the season and then tanked around January and coasted for the rest of the season (I mean 3 seasons). Remove the dead wood please Mr. Dumars. I know you are trying and there are no takers. According to Cheeks, everyone has told him they want to start. It might just come out that Billups is the starting point guard in the opener. But as much as I hated losing Knight for Jennings, he will be a fun guy to watch play. He is crafty and quick. But can he stay on the floor if he doesn't play sound defense. Playing tough defense will be the theme of this new coach. Players will suffer more bench time if they don't figure that out real quick. I think over all Dumars did a great job in his hire of Cheeks. He will demand that players do the right thing on the court.

[deusXango]

Jennings is a risk, but IMO, a good one! His contract is very movable, but a poor performance would make it harder to move, and history shows that there are few takers for a PG like Jennings once he's soured on his current team!

Oracle, this is exactly what I've been saying about Stuckey!! No takers for this played out combo guard/PG/SG/SF, or whatever you want to call him, and we're still dead set on keeping him around to poison the sweet waters of new hope. We took the risk with Stuckey and LOST; what does it take for that fact to sink in? 10-12 years of what we've gotten for the last 5? SH!!!!!!T.

[merc]

What's a good Tigers forum?... time to get back in touch with the faithful (going back to the 68 champs).

[Oracle]

"But the rest including Jennings, Stuckey and Bynum are weak defenders with Bynum being the worst of all based on watching him play for Detroit over the years. Nobody seems to notice how bad he is as a defender." - Don

Don, you make excellent points!

Jennings is so much like a poor man's AI it's scary. I've pointed that out before as has Fly, but what you said made me think about it again.

Like AI, Jennings is a very poor defender, and poor is being kind. However, like AI, he somewhat makes up for it with steals, but you can't steal enough to offset guys blowing by you or shooting over you all night long... this will be a problem!

People say that Drummond or Smith will erase his mistakes, and that's partially true! They can help him when guys get by him, but the problem is that they can't help him when guys just raise up and shoot over him! Of course this goes for Bynum too, but in addition to being able to steal, Bynum at least is capable of throwing a body at players to keep them from getting too close, where Jennings is easily muscled around!

Stuckey is fully capable of playing stellar defense, he just doesn't do it consistently enough. However, if you hate Bynum's defense, you're going to be driven crazy by Jennings!

Let's say Jennings is a poorman's AI.  Well, AI got to the Finals, didn't he?  He also had some big players surrounding him.  I look at Jennings as at best an all-star and at worst the Stuckey-like expiring contract that can be very valuable in a couple years.  8M/year is GREAT for this talent!  Stuckey too is worth this much IMO.  

While I agree that Jennings could and should be of all star quality with this surrounding cast, when we compare him to a poor man's AI, we mean VERY poor!

AI was in the conversation with Zeke as one of the best little men ever in the game!

In AI's prime he was totally and completely un-guardable, and could take over any game he wanted to in dominating fashion!

Jennings doesn't have half of AI's talent, so when we say poor, the drop off in talent is massive, and we're mostly comparing the bad side of AI, not the good!

Having said that, I do think he's more like a mid level exception type player than a 8M/yr player! I think the media and Dumars have done a good job selling the 8M figure, but I'm not buying it for a player that has proven nothing and established a solid fact of getting worse in the playoffs and being a shot chucker.

Now if you want to pay in advance for what you think he could be, then 8M is a good number, but from a business perspective, that's not a wise move!

Jennings is a risk, but IMO, a good one! His contract is very movable, but a poor performance would make it harder to move, and history shows that there are few takers for a PG like Jennings once he's soured on his current team!

[Go Stones!]

"But the rest including Jennings, Stuckey and Bynum are weak defenders with Bynum being the worst of all based on watching him play for Detroit over the years. Nobody seems to notice how bad he is as a defender." - Don

Don, you make excellent points!

Jennings is so much like a poor man's AI it's scary. I've pointed that out before as has Fly, but what you said made me think about it again.

Like AI, Jennings is a very poor defender, and poor is being kind. However, like AI, he somewhat makes up for it with steals, but you can't steal enough to offset guys blowing by you or shooting over you all night long... this will be a problem!

People say that Drummond or Smith will erase his mistakes, and that's partially true! They can help him when guys get by him, but the problem is that they can't help him when guys just raise up and shoot over him! Of course this goes for Bynum too, but in addition to being able to steal, Bynum at least is capable of throwing a body at players to keep them from getting too close, where Jennings is easily muscled around!

Stuckey is fully capable of playing stellar defense, he just doesn't do it consistently enough. However, if you hate Bynum's defense, you're going to be driven crazy by Jennings!

Let's say Jennings is a poorman's AI. Well, AI got to the Finals, didn't he? He also had some big players surrounding him. I look at Jennings as at best an all-star and at worst the Stuckey-like expiring contract that can be very valuable in a couple years. 8M/year is GREAT for this talent! Stuckey too is worth this much IMO.

[Go Stones!]

Kyle Singler will be the 2004 Darvin Ham, or Damien Wilkens of years gone by, or Curry...a smart dude who is dependable, stable and can bring energy...all along with a high BB IQ.

He is not starter material, but with his energy and shooting ability he should get some burn.

[Oracle]

9 Pistons Games To Watch

[Oracle]

We need a backup big man, but Collins is just plain OLD!

Why not pick up a younger big body, it's not like we need any production out of him, just 6 fouls - Pistons discuss contract with Jason Collins

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