Re: FORUM

[Sparma]

Lemonpen, the lottery will determine whether we keep the pick (and the probabilities of the lottery are in turn set by the standings). If we were at #9, we still could slide into a top 8 protected pick; if we're at #8 in the standings, we could still lose the pick by ending up #9 post-lottery. If two late lottery teams vault into the top 3 via lottery, even being #7 won't be good enough to hold on to the pick. Lottery night -- May 20 -- promises to be a nerve wracking affair. The upside is that we have a significant chance to jump up to a top three pick ourselves.

If I'm interpreting Tankathon.com correctly, the teams behind #8 have a collective 19.5% chance to leapfrog into the top 3.   That's a pretty hefty percentage (I've seen one that slightly lower elsewhere).  If one team jumps into the top 3, the number eight team would drop a spot.  Right now we're tied with Sacramento for #7.  If two teams jumped into the top 3, even being #7 won't be good enough to hold on to our first round pick, but that's a real long shot.  It looks real unlikely that we'd pass Cleveland and move to #9.  I'm enough of a conspiracy theorist to worry that being at #8 won't be good (or bad) enough, what with the league angry about tanking.  I'd be much happier if we can hold #7 alone, which I think we'll do.  

How many accursed strong runs have finished off recent seasons though?  Seven to go, and things are looking bad, which is good.

Many thanks, Sparma. I'll be checking out tankathon.com more frequently, along with the mock draft boards from now until the Draft.

Is our pick protected at #8 going into the lottery, or after the ping pong balls are selected.  Seems like it ought to be based on final standings.

[Go Stones!]

Moose is valuable to us in a couple ways. One is that we could Koncak another team by having them drive up the asking price for someone who is slow, no vertical and will only get worse on defense and let him go. Another would be to use that in a sign and trade scenario and may even be able to get rid of other players in the mix along with Moose. The one thing that Moose has going for him is that he is a PF/C. This is great for a team needing a flexible player.

If we can gain an all-star caliber SF or SG with a sign and trade, let's do it! I'm still wondering if someone like Ryan Anderson, Deng, E.Turner, Rondo would be bites for Moose. Some are also free agents so would have to do a double sign and trade that would work.

He has mediocre mid-range, he has NO vertical, he has decent numbers and can't run much at all. We need to turn him into a run and gun big man who can also stretch the field with a legit 3-point threat, but also can handle down low.

[lemonpen]

If I'm interpreting Tankathon.com correctly, the teams behind #8 have a collective 19.5% chance to leapfrog into the top 3.   That's a pretty hefty percentage (I've seen one that slightly lower elsewhere).  If one team jumps into the top 3, the number eight team would drop a spot.  Right now we're tied with Sacramento for #7.  If two teams jumped into the top 3, even being #7 won't be good enough to hold on to our first round pick, but that's a real long shot.  It looks real unlikely that we'd pass Cleveland and move to #9.  I'm enough of a conspiracy theorist to worry that being at #8 won't be good (or bad) enough, what with the league angry about tanking.  I'd be much happier if we can hold #7 alone, which I think we'll do.  

How many accursed strong runs have finished off recent seasons though?  Seven to go, and things are looking bad, which is good.

Many thanks, Sparma. I'll be checking out tankathon.com more frequently, along with the mock draft boards from now until the Draft.

Is our pick protected at #8 going into the lottery, or after the ping pong balls are selected. Seems like it ought to be based on final standings.

[cool breeze]

Here's my draft board of players likely to be available at #8:

1. Napier
2. Gordon
3. Payton
4. Harris
5. Ennis

Murph Napier is currently listed on most draft boards as a late second round type of player. But Nick Johnson is also in that category right now. While I do not want more shorter players, both of these guys are great defenders unlike our current group of guards. Let us see what Napier does tonight. He sure looks like a winner but with all the potentially good players in this draft, it might be smarter to select one of the higher rated first round guys for that 8th pick. We could get another really good point guard in the 2nd round.

[cool breeze]

Right now the rebuilding Suns are 46-31. The Suns beat the Thunder last night something this group of Piston players could never do. Doesn't that tell you something about the players on this Piston team???? Any addition of Monroe, Smith, Stuckey, Charlie V, or Bynum would screw up this Suns team big time. How could Dumars sign so many inept players? It is amazing because these guys are chemistry killers. But players nobody thinks about like Tucker, Plumlee, Bledsoe, Dragic, the Morris brothers, Green and Frye have created a real good team with fantastic chemistry. And again I say if Phoenix management had signed any of the Piston players above, that Suns team and had any received any playing time, Phoenix would look like Detroit. Pistons coach brings in Siva and the team plays like a real team. But the coach had to leave Moose, Smith, Bynum, and Charlie on the bench. Stuckey was playing with Siva but I wish he were on the bench as well. It appears that Detroit management is planning on signing Stuckey to a new contract. Otherwise he would have been sitting on the bench. And next season we will see the old Stuckey after he has signed that new contract. Still Stuckey who is playing as hard as he can right now, cannot play defense well enough to command playing time on a good team. He turns his back on his assigned man and has concentration issues even when he is fighting for that new contract right now. How stupid can our management team actually be? They are blind.

[WTF]

I would rather pay $15 million to Moose, than $14 million to Smith, or $13 million to Gordon, or $9 million to Villanueva, or $8 million to Jennings.

In other words, after over paying for all of the above free agents, if the Pistons suddenly get cheap about re-signing Monroe, I'm going to go postal.    

Murph these were Joe dumb ass mistakes, and shouldn't be some continuing trend with the organization that we over pay any player when it been traditionally a practice not to offer up Max Deals to any player. I could see if Moose was a defined leader of this team, if he was leading the team in rebounds, points and blocks, or even if he was a game changer and All Star but he's none of these things.

While many may consider these dumb signings Gordon is no longer, here, Charlie will be gone after this season and in the larger scheme of things neither Josh nor Jennings deals would be anywhere in comparison to grossly over-paying Monroe. 24 Mil for 3 seasons isn't 60 Million for 4 season and neither is 54 Million for 5 seasons. Soon Joe will be gone and hopefully the new GM comes in with something new or in line with what's been the norm for the organization prior to the last 8 or 9 seasons.

[Murph]

Here's my draft board of players likely to be available at #8:

1. Napier
2. Gordon
3. Payton
4. Harris
5. Ennis

[Murph]

I would rather pay $15 million to Moose, than $14 million to Smith, or $13 million to Gordon, or $9 million to Villanueva, or $8 million to Jennings.

In other words, after over paying for all of the above free agents, if the Pistons suddenly get cheap about re-signing Monroe, I'm going to go postal.   

[WTF]

Is Monroe worth more than Favors or Pekovic? Certainly that is a judgment call. But it is hard to imagine him signing for any less than they did. Surely the Pistons would be happy to retain "Moose" with a deal in the neighborhood of $12 million per year for four years. The critical question is whether the free agent market will permit them to keep him for that price. It will only take one team offering him the max to make this hope unrealistic. Then the question is whether or not Detroit will "pony up" to match that offer.

Since a max contract for Monroe would probably average out to pay him about $15 million per season (these deals have built-in annual raises), the obvious issue is how important saving $3 million per year is to the franchise. That money alone will not buy much. So it would make little sense for the Pistons to let Monroe go just in order to save a few million dollars per year.

But if they don’t believe he is worth what the market will bear, or conclude that he is not the ideal fit for their future, then expect Detroit to actively entertain sign-and-trade offers. While a trade may not be of any particular financial benefit to Monroe, it will allow the Pistons to at least garner a return for a very valuable asset they have developed. What the franchise must first decide is whether any proposed trade will put them in a stronger position to make the playoffs and contend for titles once again.

Insane to pay his ass 15 Million a season with he sh!t ass defense, no mid-range and being a bad fit next to Drummond. The most I would give him is 10 Million and then bring his ass off the bench.

[WTF]

1. If Moose wanted to be here why wasn't an extension signed at the beginning of the season? Well simple answer would be he wasn't offered the deal that he think he'll get going elsewhere, but he saw the writing on the wall that Josh was brought here not to play SF but eventually replace his ass at the PF position. They already have a franchise center in Andre 

2. If the Pistons were so sure that keeping Monroe was a must then why wasn't a Max Deal offered at the beginning of the season? Simple answer is they don't see him being worth 62 million over the next 5 seasons and there is no way they're going to give up that kind of loot not even this summer.  If I had to take a stab at guessing the Pistons probably laid a 5 year deal on the table at about 10 million a season which is likely the max that they're willing to pay him.  Rest assure that the Pistons are the biggest doubters of their own experiment of the 3 front-court players than anyone.   This sh!t wasn't hard to see that it would not work.  Also the other concern is that they wasn't sure if Moose has already peaked or not and it's likely that he has.  

[WTF]

Please with the Oh Wo! is us attitude about who the media insider disdain for this team and small markets. You might as well include the entire league to that list considering there only a hand full of large markets to begin with. So I'm guessing that its only Boston, Chicago, LA, New York and Miami that get the media's love.

Really what love has New York and Boston been getting as of late? Winning solves everything and this team has sucked for 6 straight seasons but somehow the National Media is suppose to be all Gun Ho like the local media idiots and over-reacting fan base. This team sucks! and if the locals had any balls they would report it as such oppose to sugar-coating the Bullsh!t like they so often do.

Disagree as many of you may but the proof is written all over the place so it really isn't a matter of media insiders telling you anything. I have asked the question 80 thousand times and no one on this board can come up with a logical answer beyond homerism! I'll ask again.

1. If Moose wanted to be here why wasn't an extension signed at the beginning of the season?
2. If the Pistons were so sure that keeping Monroe was a must then why wasn't a Max Deal offered at the beginning of the season?

Seem like 2 very simple questions that seem to address what and whys of the conversation of trading or not trading him this summer and what confidence the team has or had concerning Moose.

Funny that those that doubt the national media has been buying into Joe's Bullsh!t as being gospel. I'm not advocating that the media insiders are any better just that they're more honest than the local bullsh!t fed to us daily and the crap that both Gores and Joe has fed us.

Go ahead Homers answer the 2 questions   

[Murph]

Phil with a couple of excellent posts recently. First there was this gem from a few days ago:

"See what really is going on is the Media wants the Pistons to let G.Monroe walk. So he can leave the Detroit Market and go to the LA, Boston, NY market. So they can be happy. That's what they want.

So you going to have fools who will repeat what they read from the NY times or the Boston journal about the DETROIT, Michigan Pistons. You know what I'm saying???

The media will always paint the Detroit Pistons situation as DOOM and GLOOM! Drummonds is going to leave, G.Monroe will get away (RESTRICTED FREE AGENT) for ZERO, NOBODY could ever, in the history of the NBA, Want Josh Smith contract, The Sky is BLACK, the Grass is BROWN, the water is Brown, leave there and come to NY or LA.

Being A independent minded, thinking person helps with media brain washing. I don't buy the Media brain washing. The Media don't like Milwaukee, Minnesota, Indiana, Detroit, Portland, Utah, San Antonio, Sacramento, Cleveland.

These are some of the most hated markets for most of the NBA "Media Insiders." So when you come to this forum with "Media Insiders" quotes please know your history and do your research. "

Phil...I could not agree more.

And most recently:

"I have my top Pick already. Dante Exum. That's the guy I would roll with right now today outside of the top 2. Wiggins and Parker."

Now I don't know anything about Exum, and he might not even be available at #8. But I like the fact that Phil is looking for a PG.


BTW...who's the most under-rated PG in the entire draft from the most under-rated team in the entire NCAA Tournament, by the national media??? That's right...Shabazz Napier. And Napier most certainly will be available to the Pistons in this draft.

[Phil-Good]

I have my top Pick already. Dante Exum. That's the guy I would roll with right now today outside of the top 2. Wiggins and Parker.

If we get lucky and keep the pick. Sacramento might win A few more games and so Might the Pistons if somebody does not get into full tank mode.



No excuse for that Boston win last night.

[cool breeze]

Reading the Detroit News one would think that everyone should feel sorry for the Pistons because Bynum is injured. Are the Detroit News writers just writing what is provided for them by Piston management. Who would say that based on the way this team has played recently when Siva has been on the floor? He has been the spark because he is a tough hard nosed point guard. He made a nice steal in the 4th quarter to trigger Detroit's run. So why was Brandon Jennings rewarded with playing time with jsut over 2 minutes to go in that Boston game? Why did management want this team to win? Have they lost their marbles? Why was Stuckey playing so many minutes? Are they really going to sign him again? If they do, I am done. Detroit upper management might have just blown this 8th pick and for what to help Stuckey get a new contract? I am pulling for Siva, Jerebco, Drummond and Singler. But why would management try os hard to get that win? It just shows us that not only do we have several players on this team with low  basketball IQs but we also have a mentally challenged management team. In this game, The fans who attended the game were provided with some exciting moments and they could have gone home with hope for the future but no all of us fans now have lost a little more faith in this owner and his management team. Losing is winning. Stop playing Stuckey and the starters for the rest of the year. You only show how stupid you when you fail to play the rookies. 

Bottom line I enjoyed watching this team when Siva was in the game. The players on the floor looked as if they were having fun and playing hard. Did you notice that Mr. Gores or have you tuned your team out for the rest of the year???

[Fennis Dembo]

Urgent message to Tom Gores
Final score: Atlanta 107 Indiana 88

Your team that has grossly underachieved has been officially and mathematically eliminated from making the playoffs.

[WTF]

Joe doesn't need to be here in any capacity whatsoever! We should thank him for 2004 and a great career as a player on this team and move in a completely new direction with this team. IMO Joe would not make even a decent NBA coach it would be like having Cheeks all over but perhaps even worse.

As much as I would enjoy another run with Lamb and Zeke as GM and Coach I'm beginning to wonder if we need to move away from that as well and define the team with something new. Tradition is a good thing but these aren't traditional players.

[Sebastian]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/232776/Study-Finds-Isiah-Thomas-As-Best-Drafting-GM-Since-1989

In my opinion the administrative decisions that must be made by Gores are fairly simple:

Hire Isiah as the GM and assign Joe to become the Head Coach. These two have proven that the can work well together, both genuinely care about OUR Pistons, both are analytical, cerebral individuals.

The prodigal son has to return and Joe's resume can use the challenge of the day-to-day grind, applying his tutelage and guidance, in a more practical application.

It is not that Joe has been a poor drafting GM, indeed he has had some good picks no-brainers like Dre, Moose, and even B. Knight were picks that he was smart enough to not deny mid first round like like Stuckey was a good pick (I still think that Stuckey can be a weapon), late pickst like Tay and Afflalo were genius picks, too.

But, I think that Zeke would be a better judge of current NBA players and how to better assemble a championship-level roster, And, Joe could potentially be an excellent head coach. Remember, he was a coach pretty much doing the entire Grant Hill-era.
A simple decision in my opinion.

[Sebastian]

If I'm interpreting Tankathon.com correctly, the teams behind #8 have a collective 19.5% chance to leapfrog into the top 3.   That's a pretty hefty percentage (I've seen one that slightly lower elsewhere).  If one team jumps into the top 3, the number eight team would drop a spot.  Right now we're tied with Sacramento for #7.  If two teams jumped into the top 3, even being #7 won't be good enough to hold on to our first round pick, but that's a real long shot.  It looks real unlikely that we'd pass Cleveland and move to #9.  I'm enough of a conspiracy theorist to worry that being at #8 won't be good (or bad) enough, what with the league angry about tanking.  I'd be much happier if we can hold #7 alone, which I think we'll do.  

How many accursed strong runs have finished off recent seasons though?  Seven to go, and things are looking bad, which is good.

Many thanks, Sparma. I'll be checking out tankathon.com more frequently, along with the mock draft boards from now until the Draft.

[WTF]

4-0 only undefeated team left in MLB. How great would it be if that could run off 20 more wins and put some distance between them and everyone else.

Why is this dumb ass team winning games, but this the risk of playing guys that haven't played a lot they get all pumped just being on the floor. I feared we would win last night at the Celtics but what pissed be off was watching JJ sorry ass hitting 3's that he couldn't manage to hit all fu@king season long. As a whole where was all this energy and effort early on.....this team is going to fu@k up its draft position.

[WTF]

http://sportspyder.com/teams/detroit-pistons/articles/11623707

While KCP doesn't care if he plays or not, Burke wants to be the best he can be in the league. I just can't get passed KCP comments that he feels he's already arrived at his dream and goal of being in the NBA. Media can't keep sugar coating this fu@ked up seletion of KCP oppose to Burke or MCW.

[WTF]

I actually watch the game last night and enjoyed watching Siva get a chance to play. This kid can't finish at the rim, he doesn't have an outside shot but he plays hard and with heart. He couldn't buy a basket in the paint last night but he kept going in there and I liked that. He may never be able to get his shot off at the basket, or become a threat from outside but he does have the makings to become a good pass first PG. IMO he just needs to slow down some and get some consistent PT so I hope he plays a lot in the off season and work on that shot some.

[Oracle]

I love this commercial!

[Phil-Good]

 "Hey just wondering when Joe get the ax who drawers will you be sucking on then? I know you were hired by Joe as his Krispy Kreme Consultant.  Will you be getting canned after the season as well?"

NA, you stuck with me even pass Joe Dumars days as the GM. This my team for LIFE!!!!

[cool breeze]

@coolbreeze, some think we need to match whatever to keep Monroe lazy ass for the next 5 or 6 seasons in hope that his defense and mid-range shot improves   that sh!t not going to happen but this is what they're hoping for.  

The reasons why we should have trade his ass at trade deadline are. 1. He could possibly walk away this summer and team gets no compensation for it.  2. That first reason could force them into signing his ass to a Max Deal that he doesn't deserve and could be stuck with his ass. 3. This team would have likely performed better without him if he was traded back at the deadline.  4. There were far more options and for more better options at the deadline than they will have in any sign and trade this summer if they're so lucky to find one.

I agree. If anything Monroe has become a less capable defender since he has been a Piston. He must not be coachable. I watched Loyer's post game interview last night and he appears to be a bright man and knows basketball as well as anyone. He pointed out in an around about way how inept his starters have become or always were. He stated that he was very impressed with the work ethic of the players he kept on the floor in the 4th quarter and explained that there was no way he was going to bring back the starters based on the way they had performed. Once upon a time Jerebco was an exciting player to watch. He seems to always play well when Singler is on the floor. But last night he really looked good with Siva, Drummond and Singler playing with him. Players including Jennings, Smith, Monroe, Bynum and Stuckey are chemistry killers. There are too many of them on the same team. Maybe one or two of those chemistry killers will not ruin a team but Mr. Dumars has so much love for these guys including Charlie V that there is no way he should be allowed to continue as a decision maker for Detroit. The owner has trusted Joe but he should have been smarter that that way back when Dumars signed Jennings ( a guy nobody wanted) and (Bynum) another guy nobody wanted. And of course nobody has expressed interest in Stuckey either. Stuckey does beat up on weak teams but get him on the floor with some good competition and he will do something like I pointed out last night in this game against the Nets. Who but a Jr. High player would turn your back to the guy you are supposed to be guarding and just watch the action like a fan. His guy gets a layup and Stuckey can't figure it out. And the coach didn't take him out of the game because he has players on the bench who are more inept than Stuckey. Can this really be a NBA team? The only players who deserve to be playing who start right now are Singler and Drummond. However, I am on your page Wisefan. It is time to play Mitchell, Siva, Datome Charlie V, and Bynum for all but maybe 5 minutes for the rest of the season. We need to lose the remaining games and it will be fun to watch this group play with real pressure because if they can't cut it, most likely they will be forgotten. I only include Bynum and Charlie V because they should help t he cause of losing if they play a lot. Put Charlie on the opposing team's best offensive player. That will be fun to watch. 

After Joe is gone, I hope he will write a book regarding his days as a GM and fill us in on his perspective of how he decided to sign such lame players.

[WTF]

Stop playing the starters and give these young guys the PT they should be getting already. Letting Mitchell, Siva, Pope start the last 7 games could only help them. Shut down Andre before you get him hurt, shut down Josh, and Singler, shut down Moose dumb ass before he trip on air and rupture a knee or something and were stuck with him.

The only ones I would be playing at this point are Siva, Charlie, Mitchell JJ, Bynum, Datome, Stuckey, KCP, and Billups if he's capable. This team is unlucky enough that one of the starters could end up getting hurt. Is Harrellson even still on the team if so start him as well. Play them all at least 24 minutes.

Start packing Joe's office, let Loyer start packing his **** as well, change the locks on the door, hopefully Gores already have his list of replacements ready start interviewing right after the last game is played.

Hire Big Ben as part of the training staff, Keep Sheed as an assistant, give Chauncey a front office position, fire Blaha, and Kelser, replace them with Webber and Salley. Fire Mason hated him when he was a radio announcer. I would even like to see a new uniform if possible as well a a new mascot.

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