If you want to know the future...

[deusXango]

Oracle, I've said it before, and still believe that Charles Klask is the best coach on this team; he's the only one that has HC potential.

[merc]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]
A long as we all understand how often Calderon will get burned by quicker PGs

[deusXango]

Wise, I'm not crossing swords with you on this but, Singler is the best SF on the team right now; he's the only player that has experience with the starters (albeit he's been playing out of position), and he does play with intelligence...think about it. How do you feel about giving Middleton some PT as his backup? Sliding Singler around from position to position makes more sense than that sh!t that's being done to justify keeping Stuckey's ass around. Singler is going from SG to SF, while Stuckey has played musical chairs with PG, SG, 6th man, and now there's talk about rejoining the starters.

[deusXango]

Merc, I want Knight to learn as much as he can from Calderon about the fine points of the PG position...whatever Billips could have meant to this franchise as a mentor for Knight, we can use Calderon for. The only thing Jose can't provide is the sentimental value of Chauncey Billips, but skill, WOW!!

[Oracle]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]
A long as we all understand how often Calderon will get burned by quicker PGs

Where he may cry because he's never played anywhere else before.

[Oracle]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]
A long as we all understand how often Calderon will get burned by quicker PGs

Merc, that's the argument for starting Drummond and having speed all across the starting lineup.

We're going to have to cover for him, but Frank should know that!

[merc]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]
A long as we all understand how often Calderon will get burned by quicker PGs

Merc, that's the argument for starting Drummond and having speed all across the starting lineup.

We're going to have to cover for him, but Frank should know that!

Orc, I'm all for the deal... surely most folks know JC is swiss cheese on D... it sorta helps soften the blow when we see Monroe on an island.

[merc]

Merc, I want Knight to learn as much as he can from Calderon about the fine points of the PG position...whatever Billips could have meant to this franchise as a mentor for Knight, we can use Calderon for. The only thing Jose can't provide is the sentimental value of Chauncey Billips, but skill, WOW!!

That's the fascinating part of the deal... how much will rub off on the apprentice... yet BK still needs freedom to utilize his own assets.... I was thinking that Brandon will now see that being effective does not have to be complicated... sometimes it's simply a matter slowing down for the pick man and taking the mid range.

For Jose our bigs better be ready to set good rubs or JC will not be effective (since that's his primary strength).

[Grizz2]

What Frank should do ...

New NBA offensive style is .. Lay ups, dunks (alley oops / pick and roll / hard cuts to the basket / PG busts all the way to the hole), and made 3 point shots are the priorities .. Midrange game is a last resort .. Fastbreak as much as you can ... when you can..

1. Singler starts at SF .. this is his natural position .. JJ also can also get back in the rotation .. NO COREY MAGETTE! I would throw CV out there and get some 3 point ball out there .. the better CV shoots .. the more he will be out there ..

2. Move Brandon to co-PG / Dual Guard starter SG... where he would often be the outside floor spacing shooter / slasher. As time and opportunity allows .. he can transition to more of a PG role .. if he and Frank are up to it .. English and Stuckey can back up ...

3. JC starts ... Play your best .. especially at PG since the development of the team depends on this happening .. your play maker getting everyone going .. that is why I have been more infuritated with Frank .. Because it didnt seem like he had a sense of urgency about the PG developing ... I still to this day do not think Knight was ever given a CLEAR plan TO penentrate and create .. AND .. when he did .. the opposition double-teamed him or collapsed around him since they did not fear the outside shooting of Prince, Singler or Jmax .. Bynum backs up and will probably also be a better PG with JC as a good model ..

4. Monroe to PF ... No need to wait till next season .. at the high post he wont be getting in the way of Drummond .. Let Moose pass, shoot from the free throw line or drive the lane .. triple threat .. JMax to back up PF ... This is good for the starters and the back up team .. JMAX can give a lot of energy but only over a limited time and apparently only vs smaller big men .. Middleton and JJ can also help out ..

5. Drummond at Center .. Release the BEAST and get the hell out of the way .. .. And the more you play JC .. the more AD is needed to cover for his defensive lapses ..back ups: Jmax, Kravtsov and CV (against lower echelon centers)

BUT BUT BUT .. WHAT I EXPECT FRANK TO DO IS ...

Keep Jmax at PF for the rest of the season .. ... and START STUCKEY at SG ... For at least 2 more weeks of losses .. Frank may even decide that since Drummond is going to stay on the 2nd unit for the rest of the year .. that means JC is on the 2nd unit as well .. since he needs a defensive block out the sun center to cover for the guards who blow by him ..

Just once I would like to see Frank surprise us all and do something that was a good idea that no body else had thought of yet .. Instead .. he is 2 months late on the most basic ideas ..

If Frank keeps Singler at SG .. I will personally go to the Palace and beat him up .. Nothing to brag abour doing .. but ..

[WTF]

This reeks of a familiar problem. We just shipped two 6'10 guys although combined they only weighed 200lbs for a 6'3 PG. Now we're back to having 4 guards vying for minutes and someone is not going to be very happy about their minutes.

Jose becomes the best PG on this team the minute he put on that Pistons uniform so the question becomes where does that leave Bynum, Stuckey and Knight. There has to be another trade coming very soon or this seemingly good trade for Jose will blow up in our face even if its for a half of season. See...(Rip/Iversion or Rip/Gordon

Stuckeyhas been a disappointment thus far but. IMO still was the best of the three prior to this trade happening. I'm not completely sold that he needs to be traded though he's the team best trade option.

Bynumhopefully Joe is not dumb enough to fall for playing of a new deal by Bynum. I don't think we resigned him and perhaps he has been on display long enough this season that some other team has taken notice of him.

Knighthas completely stunk up the joint this season IMO, I can count the decent games he's played on one hand. He would be buried deep in LB's dog house if Brown was coaching this team right now.

[Murph]

Wise...I think Calderon starts at the point, with Knight moving to starting SG. That will leave Stuckey, Bynum and English fighting it out for minutes on the 2nd unit.

As Grizz mentioned, if I were Frank, I'd take this opportunity to MOVE DRUMMOND TO THE STARTING UNIT NOW in place of JMax.

If Drummond moves to the 1st unit, Stuckey is probably the best choice as a score first PG for the 2nd unity. The Stuckmeister can have the ball in his hands all he wants, and bull his way through the lane to his hearts content. However, if Drummond stays on the 2nd unit, Bynum is probably the better choice as the PG of the 2nd unity, because he sets up Drummond so well.

It all depends on how Frank wants to fit the pieces together.


As for Singler, personally I can't wait to see how he does as our starting SF. I was skeptical of the Singler pick in the 1st place, and even more skeptical when he spent his first year in Spain. But he's come in and worked hard. He played out of position for most of the season, without complaining. He hustles, moves without the ball, and is comfortable in the roll of "glue guy", just like Prince was. And he has good size for the SF position.

He might not work out as our starting SF, but he definitely deserves the opportunity to show what he can do in what is probably his natural position.

I would also like to see more minutes for JJ, either at the reserve 3 or 4.


Oh...and...Earth to Lil Larry: Another good reason to move Drummond into the starting line-up NOW is to provide help defense and weak side shot blocking for all those guys who will drive past Calderon on the perimeter.

[lemonpen]

Frank is consistent ONLY in a few things!

1. It's guaranteed that you're going to have a horrible losing streak at the beginning of the season! This can only be attributed to lack of prerparation, a total misjudging of the situation, and not vetting players for the positions that he deploys them in!

2. It's guaranteed that he will be like a deer in the headlights when the other team makes a run, because he doesn't know why or how it happened!

3. Don, you may hope that players get played, but the fact is that it's guaranteed someone will get PT, then get forgotten for weeks. The only question is who's got next?

So you say it's a players league? Yeah, that's mostly true, but if your coach suffers from all of the above three problems, the players aren't going to get much of a chance to prove that theory!

Scan our 15 man roster and you find 2 NBA starters, Moose and Prince, neither of whom are even close to All Star quality. Every other Vet is of backup quality to some degree; some R lesser than ib/u quality if we are comparing ourselves to a playoff team. The rest vary from young-&-almost there to raw-&-unproven. Give a chef these kinds of iingredients every day and more times than not you wont like the outcomes. So why should Frank be so committed to a season long consistent lineup and or rotation. He ought to be searching. As the young guys slowly improve they need to be reassessed in different combinations / situations.

We have seen sporatic evidence of overachievement in some of our wins. The team is statistically better year over year, just not enough to wag the W/L needle, yet. If it's any comfort to youse Frank detractors, Franks season starting loosing streak has shortened each time (0-16, 4-21, 0- He's lookin up !!!!!!

The Zen Master is famous for allowing his guys to fight through tough moments. Well, his teams didn't develop sufficient mental toughness to do that by having time outs called each and every time the opposition bowed their backs. I'm betting Frank is trying to embed that character in us.

But seriously, I'm just trying to give Frank a fair shake. So I won't be overly critical until I feel he has a roster capable of sniffing the playoffs.

[lemonpen]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

Yep.
Might sound funny but I hope he works himself into a capable SG over the summer. I like the height advantage he offers. At SF there are no physical advantages, and smarts may not be enough to make the starting unit.

[deusXango]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

Yep.
Might sound funny but I hope he works himself into a capable SG over the summer. I like the height advantage he offers. At SF there are no physical advantages, and smarts may not be enough to make the starting unit.

Lemon, what are Paul Pierce's best qualities if it's not playing with smarts, and the fact that he's strong as a bull?.........Oh. Never mind!

[lemonpen]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

Yep.
Might sound funny but I hope he works himself into a capable SG over the summer. I like the height advantage he offers. At SF there are no physical advantages, and smarts may not be enough to make the starting unit.

Lemon, what are Paul Pierce's best qualities if it's not playing with smarts, and the fact that he's strong as a bull?.........Oh. Never mind!

He can put the ball on the floor, in traffic, without loosing it, and can shoot off of the move.
He shoots all shots with a high level of reliability.
He is as clutch as it gets, when it counts, on every stage.
In his best days he absolutely could not be kept off of the foul line.

At this point Singler has none of that.

[deusXango]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

Yep.
Might sound funny but I hope he works himself into a capable SG over the summer. I like the height advantage he offers. At SF there are no physical advantages, and smarts may not be enough to make the starting unit.

Lemon, what are Paul Pierce's best qualities if it's not playing with smarts, and the fact that he's strong as a bull?.........Oh. Never mind!

He can put the ball on the floor, in traffic, without loosing it, and can shoot off of the move.
He shoots all shots with a high level of reliability.
He is as clutch as it gets, when it counts, on every stage.
In his best days he absolutely could not be kept off of the foul line.

At this point Singler has none of that.

Alright Lemon, I opened mouth and inserted foot, okay? Jeeez.

[WTF]

Frank is consistent ONLY in a few things!

1. It's guaranteed that you're going to have a horrible losing streak at the beginning of the season! This can only be attributed to lack of prerparation, a total misjudging of the situation, and not vetting players for the positions that he deploys them in!

2. It's guaranteed that he will be like a deer in the headlights when the other team makes a run, because he doesn't know why or how it happened!

3. Don, you may hope that players get played, but the fact is that it's guaranteed someone will get PT, then get forgotten for weeks. The only question is who's got next?

So you say it's a players league? Yeah, that's mostly true, but if your coach suffers from all of the above three problems, the players aren't going to get much of a chance to prove that theory!

Scan our 15 man roster and you find 2 NBA starters, Moose and Prince, neither of whom are even close to All Star quality. Every other Vet is of backup quality to some degree; some R lesser than ib/u quality if we are comparing ourselves to a playoff team. The rest vary from young-&-almost there to raw-&-unproven. Give a chef these kinds of iingredients every day and more times than not you wont like the outcomes. So why should Frank be so committed to a season long consistent lineup and or rotation. He ought to be searching. As the young guys slowly improve they need to be reassessed in different combinations / situations.

We have seen sporatic evidence of overachievement in some of our wins. The team is statistically better year over year, just not enough to wag the W/L needle, yet. If it's any comfort to youse Frank detractors, Franks season starting loosing streak has shortened each time (0-16, 4-21, 0- He's lookin up !!!!!!

The Zen Master is famous for allowing his guys to fight through tough moments. Well, his teams didn't develop sufficient mental toughness to do that by having time outs called each and every time the opposition bowed their backs. I'm betting Frank is trying to embed that character in us.

But seriously, I'm just trying to give Frank a fair shake. So I won't be overly critical until I feel he has a roster capable of sniffing the playoffs.

The biggest mistake we make is thinking our group of players are better than what they really are which is why I'm always up in arms about the word potential.

Some of our players are talented I will admit but there is nothing special about any of them with the only exception being Drummond. There is a reason why they're only a few superstars in this league and potential isn't it.

To somehow keep insisting on blaming Frank is insane, some seem to think that Knight for example needs to be baby when in fact he needs to be benched because he has played as poorly as all of our guards. Yep we tag them as potential All Star then find every excuse in the book when they're not meeting that expectation. How about calling it like it is.

[lemonpen]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

Yep.
Might sound funny but I hope he works himself into a capable SG over the summer. I like the height advantage he offers. At SF there are no physical advantages, and smarts may not be enough to make the starting unit.

Lemon, what are Paul Pierce's best qualities if it's not playing with smarts, and the fact that he's strong as a bull?.........Oh. Never mind!

He can put the ball on the floor, in traffic, without loosing it, and can shoot off of the move.
He shoots all shots with a high level of reliability.
He is as clutch as it gets, when it counts, on every stage.
In his best days he absolutely could not be kept off of the foul line.

At this point Singler has none of that.

Alright Lemon, I opened mouth and inserted foot, okay? Jeeez.

The Truth was a good comparison when the conversation is SMARTS. He has gotten a lot out of a rather non-atheletic playing style. Even as a younger player he was crafty, clever, and strong willed. I would not by any means conclude that Singler can't have a sucessful NBA career based on similar characteristics. After all Kyle was the MOP on a championship squad, and last I looked those weren't handed out to just anyone.

[Oracle]

Frank is consistent ONLY in a few things!

1. It's guaranteed that you're going to have a horrible losing streak at the beginning of the season! This can only be attributed to lack of prerparation, a total misjudging of the situation, and not vetting players for the positions that he deploys them in!

2. It's guaranteed that he will be like a deer in the headlights when the other team makes a run, because he doesn't know why or how it happened!

3. Don, you may hope that players get played, but the fact is that it's guaranteed someone will get PT, then get forgotten for weeks. The only question is who's got next?

So you say it's a players league? Yeah, that's mostly true, but if your coach suffers from all of the above three problems, the players aren't going to get much of a chance to prove that theory!

Scan our 15 man roster and you find 2 NBA starters, Moose and Prince, neither of whom are even close to All Star quality. Every other Vet is of backup quality to some degree; some R lesser than ib/u quality if we are comparing ourselves to a playoff team. The rest vary from young-&-almost there to raw-&-unproven. Give a chef these kinds of iingredients every day and more times than not you wont like the outcomes. So why should Frank be so committed to a season long consistent lineup and or rotation. He ought to be searching. As the young guys slowly improve they need to be reassessed in different combinations / situations.

We have seen sporatic evidence of overachievement in some of our wins. The team is statistically better year over year, just not enough to wag the W/L needle, yet. If it's any comfort to youse Frank detractors, Franks season starting loosing streak has shortened each time (0-16, 4-21, 0- He's lookin up !!!!!!

The Zen Master is famous for allowing his guys to fight through tough moments. Well, his teams didn't develop sufficient mental toughness to do that by having time outs called each and every time the opposition bowed their backs. I'm betting Frank is trying to embed that character in us.

But seriously, I'm just trying to give Frank a fair shake. So I won't be overly critical until I feel he has a roster capable of sniffing the playoffs.

How about answers that actually address the question

I specifically picked problems associated with COACHING, not players!

First, that start of the season losing is player independent! It happened to him when he was with the Nets and a veteran team!

Second, I wish he was doing that ala the Zen master, but alas, we all know what the real deal is.

Third, you just left this one alone, because I guess nobody can explain why he does what he does to players.

[Oracle]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

Yep.
Might sound funny but I hope he works himself into a capable SG over the summer. I like the height advantage he offers. At SF there are no physical advantages, and smarts may not be enough to make the starting unit.

Nobody pays closer attention to the way that players play than Don, and especially his favorites, a lot of whom I share.

Lemon, I understand your hope that Singler could become a SG, but in the final analysis, he has advantages at that position, but he has huge disadvantages that won't ever be fixable!

IMO, if Prince could be a SF at a decently high level for years, Singler at least has a good shot at it.

A lot of my complaints about him starting are minimized if he's the starting SF. He's still, like Tay, never going to be able to handle the really good SF's, but that didn't stop Tay's career!

Singler has enough speed, and unlike speed, quickness can be worked on and improved. The appearance of quickness actually improves with knowledge of opponent and bball anticipation smarts!

As you've said, that job is Singler's to lose at this point, and he deserves the chance!

Having said that, I do wish for either a strong slasher SF(Gay would have been nice) which would have made Stuckey easily expendable. Or a hot shooting SF to spread the floor!

Because in all honesty, right now, Singler is truly a backup if we had any real talent at that position.

[Oracle]

The biggest mistake we make is thinking our group of players are better than what they really are which is why I'm always up in arms about the word potential.

Some of our players are talented I will admit but there is nothing special about any of them with the only exception being Drummond. There is a reason why they're only a few superstars in this league and potential isn't it.

To somehow keep insisting on blaming Frank is insane, some seem to think that Knight for example needs to be baby when in fact he needs to be benched because he has played as poorly as all of our guards. Yep we tag them as potential All Star then find every excuse in the book when they're not meeting that expectation. How about calling it like it is.

I think the bigger mistake is writing them off before you know what they really are.

Some kids talent is obvious right away, like Drummond. We generally call them superstars, LOL!

The league isn't composed of superstars, so putting players down simply because they aren't "Special" is bad!

However, I do agree with you that annointing them before we know what they can really do is another problem.

I think all of us need to take a step back and add a little caution about proclimations either way about players on the margins.

[Oracle]

"When Calderon is available, Pistons coach Lawrence Frank said the former Raptor will start alongside Brandon Knight, who will shift to shooting guard." - Frank

JC can't defend, and Knight, who struggles with physical 1's, is going to guard SG's?

Sounds like a political lineup... again!

[lemonpen]

Frank is consistent ONLY in a few things!

1. It's guaranteed that you're going to have a horrible losing streak at the beginning of the season! This can only be attributed to lack of prerparation, a total misjudging of the situation, and not vetting players for the positions that he deploys them in!

2. It's guaranteed that he will be like a deer in the headlights when the other team makes a run, because he doesn't know why or how it happened!

3. Don, you may hope that players get played, but the fact is that it's guaranteed someone will get PT, then get forgotten for weeks. The only question is who's got next?

So you say it's a players league? Yeah, that's mostly true, but if your coach suffers from all of the above three problems, the players aren't going to get much of a chance to prove that theory!

Scan our 15 man roster and you find 2 NBA starters, Moose and Prince, neither of whom are even close to All Star quality. Every other Vet is of backup quality to some degree; some R lesser than ib/u quality if we are comparing ourselves to a playoff team. The rest vary from young-&-almost there to raw-&-unproven. Give a chef these kinds of iingredients every day and more times than not you wont like the outcomes. So why should Frank be so committed to a season long consistent lineup and or rotation. He ought to be searching. As the young guys slowly improve they need to be reassessed in different combinations / situations.

We have seen sporatic evidence of overachievement in some of our wins. The team is statistically better year over year, just not enough to wag the W/L needle, yet. If it's any comfort to youse Frank detractors, Franks season starting loosing streak has shortened each time (0-16, 4-21, 0- He's lookin up !!!!!!

The Zen Master is famous for allowing his guys to fight through tough moments. Well, his teams didn't develop sufficient mental toughness to do that by having time outs called each and every time the opposition bowed their backs. I'm betting Frank is trying to embed that character in us.

But seriously, I'm just trying to give Frank a fair shake. So I won't be overly critical until I feel he has a roster capable of sniffing the playoffs.

How about answers that actually address the question

I specifically picked problems associated with COACHING, not players!

First, that start of the season losing is player independent! It happened to him when he was with the Nets and a veteran team!

Second, I wish he was doing that ala the Zen master, but alas, we all know what the real deal is.

Third, you just left this one alone, because I guess nobody can explain why he does what he does to players.

One: I have no answer execpt to jokingly reiterate that his streaks are shortening.

Two: I won't conceed to knowing the real deal yet. I'll play dumb for awhile longer, awaiting his inner Zen to surface.

Three: I believe there is a method to LF's madness. It's quite apparent he feels no compunction to share an abundance of details.


To summarize my answers I'll refer to a well know rant by Bobby Ross. "Do You Think I Coach This Stuff ?!?!?!?"
I don't think LF does.

[lemonpen]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

Yep.
Might sound funny but I hope he works himself into a capable SG over the summer. I like the height advantage he offers. At SF there are no physical advantages, and smarts may not be enough to make the starting unit.

Nobody pays closer attention to the way that players play than Don, and especially his favorites, a lot of whom I share.

Lemon, I understand your hope that Singler could become a SG, but in the final analysis, he has advantages at that position, but he has huge disadvantages that won't ever be fixable!
IMO, if Prince could be a SF at a decently high level for years, Singler at least has a good shot at it.

A lot of my complaints about him starting are minimized if he's the starting SF. He's still, like Tay, never going to be able to handle the really good SF's, but that didn't stop Tay's career!

Singler has enough speed, and unlike speed, quickness can be worked on and improved. The appearance of quickness actually improves with knowledge of opponent and bball anticipation smarts!

As you've said, that job is Singler's to lose at this point, and he deserves the chance!

Having said that, I do wish for either a strong slasher SF(Gay would have been nice) which would have made Stuckey easily expendable. Or a hot shooting SF to spread the floor!

Because in all honesty, right now, Singler is truly a backup if we had any real talent at that position.

Kyle will be another very interesting subject to observe and debate over the years.

[Sebastian]

"When Calderon is available, Pistons coach Lawrence Frank said the former Raptor will start alongside Brandon Knight, who will shift to shooting guard." - Frank

JC can't defend, and Knight, who struggles with physical 1's, is going to guard SG's?

Sounds like a political lineup... again!

Like you have stated Oracle, Jose can't defend. He can probably only guard one starting NBA point guard at this stage of his career: Steve Nash.

And, B. Knight is not a shooting guard. He is too damn small to be asked to guard true SGs.

Who will be the first guard off of the bench: Stuckey or Bynum?

For the record: I like the Calderon trade, not necessarily because of WE have acquired Jose, but because WE were able to move Tay and Daye.

But, I have to tell you'll, I am scared as hell of what the next move(s) are going to be. I don't trust Joe enough to make the right decisions with the expiring contracts and/or the additional cap space come July 1.

And, I have no faith at all in L. Frank's ability to coach a team with four PGs, no SGs (although I think English would be great at the starting position), and no real starting SFs. Please don't try to convince me that Singler, Jerebko, and/or Middleton are starting SF material.

Cautiously following every move from now, until the Amnesty Week has come and gone.

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