Happy Days are here again?!

[Sparma]

The Pistons had been 4-10 vs the Wizards, worst record against any Eastern foe, so I'll gladly take it (Porter being out and Gortat gone helped).

An incredible run at the start of the 3rd quarter, 22-2, some of the best basketball I've seen them play.

The "Big Three" combined for 16 TOs.  The team totaled 23.  The 3s rescued us tonight; you can't usually win being so sloppy with the ball.  

Watched the game (posting as Haan at mlive), but the boxscore's interesting too.  Bruce Brown easily best +- guy at +25.  I thought he did well, but that surprises me.  And I'm shocked that Reggie J (with his 8 TOs) finished second best in +/-, maybe a nudge to not taking that stat too seriously.  

The best play of the game was by someone I hadn't heard of: Tomas Sadoransky flew (from close to the FT line) for the dunk.  His only 2 points of the night, but he'll be robbed if he doesn't make top 10 Plays lists.

[WTF]

Oops they're already below .500  My Bad!!!!!! How sad 

[WTF]

It's not just Gores that don't speak the words Championship neither does the players or coaches which I find very disturbing.  Even Grant Hill spoke about winning Championships during his time here.  

Hell I even blame many of the fans that sit and settle for 8th seeds and make excuses when they fail.   I know both myself and Don get blasted for being harsh in our assessment of the team but nay fans should be spouting  much of the same things we speak on.  

Sadly this team is right where many of you hoped it would be so I don't understand all the trade talk 32 games in  Okay **** starting to sink for many of you that there is only 82 games long and the team is barely .500 struggling to hold on to an 7th seed with 50 games remaining.  It's just a matter of time before they fall below .500 my guess would be right at the end of January and they'll be on their way to repeating another 39 win season.  Only this time they'll do it with a healthy RJ maybe then you all see exactly what Don means when it comes to AD.

Gores need to be thinking about TANKING  there's always a deal to be made and many of you won't like them but AD should be move for picks and so should BG.  I think a perfect destination for BG would be LA but where to ship AD I don't know but we should at least get a pick or 2 in doing so.  RJ maybe the one that's hard to move.   

We should consider making Kennard and Brown the focal point to rebuild around.  Gee imagine that building around a backcourt hmmmm it worked in the past (Don't Believe Me) ask Joe, Zeke, Chauncey and Rip.     What I would really like to see with this team is roster that looks like we have newer version of a CB and Rip with a Grant Hill at SF,  a Dennis Rodman at PF and a Big Ben at C.  Please Santa Please.

[WTF]

This is the beginning of the end of Staffords career.

If so the Lions better draft well.   I can see Stafford calling it quits in the same manner as Mega, and Barry did.   It's really sad that this organization can take players like these is ruin the careers as far as winning goes.

[Sparma]

As I remember, Murph described our budget situation moving forward, but it bears repeating.

Next year is still fairly grim, e.g., with 5 mil for Josh Smith on the books, but there is some relief, as we've discussed, e.g., in Ish's 6 mil coming off the books.

It's the following year that sanity returns with coupled exceptions in the form of enormous salaries to Blake (36.6 mil) and Andre (28.7 mil). This year's made me more hopeful that that combination of salaries may not be a total disaster in 2020-21. Beyond that, we's just on the books for youngsters (Kennard for just for a team option, and Brown, Thomas).

Of course, you do need to fill out the roster, but there's some light already next year and a lot more the following year.

I'd say that, so far, the present regime has done solid work (e.g., in the draft) on the whole, even though (a) to my surprise, the Robinson signing's not looking good, and (b) I would have wanted to keep Tolliver for the moderate salary that likely could have done it.

It's quite possible for the present regime to get us on a decent, or at least manageable, financial footing in a couple of years. There seems to be reason to be cautiously optimistic there.

For me, the biggest worry moving forward is the one that Phil described: ownership. If Gores pushes for a series of shortsighted moves, in order to be moderately successful straightaway, we'll be sunk. Maybe, he's learned his lesson, at least as far as casually trading away draft picks goes.

Better days ahead!?

[lemonpen]

This is the beginning of the end of Staffords career.

[lemonpen]

Peace

[Sparma]

Excellent post, Phil.

Merry Christmas to all!

I hold Gores totally responsible for the current state of the Detroit Pistons.

Year after year, Orders are forced upon management to make the "playoffs" be "competitive" try to "win "win" "win"


Yet all the teams who started the rebuilding process have steadily passed or are currently passing the Pistons. Denver, Miami, Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Atlanta, soon to be NY Knicks, Milwaukee, Dallas, Boston, LA Lakers, LA Clippers, Sacramento..

In my opinion, the Detroit Pistons legacy has been lost. Year after year Gores settles for A shot at making the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs. Not one time has Gores ever mention CHAMPIONSHIP!!!


A great disservice has been done to Detroit Pistons fans. The Standard of quality around the Pistons has fell off since Mr. Davison passed away. For the First time in my life the Detroit Pistons don't have A hall of fame owner and I totally see the difference.


I place all blame on Gores Shoulders and I hope he wakes up and gets his S.H.I.T together.

[Phil-Good]

I hold Gores totally responsible for the current state of the Detroit Pistons.

Year after year, Orders are forced upon management to make the "playoffs" be "competitive" try to "win "win" "win"


Yet all the teams who started the rebuilding process have steadily passed or are currently passing the Pistons. Denver, Miami, Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Atlanta, soon to be NY Knicks, Milwaukee, Dallas, Boston, LA Lakers, LA Clippers, Sacramento..

In my opinion, the Detroit Pistons legacy has been lost. Year after year Gores settles for A shot at making the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs. Not one time has Gores ever mention CHAMPIONSHIP!!!


A great disservice has been done to Detroit Pistons fans. The Standard of quality around the Pistons has fell off since Mr. Davison passed away. For the First time in my life the Detroit Pistons don't have A hall of fame owner and I totally see the difference.


I place all blame on Gores Shoulders and I hope he wakes up and gets his S.H.I.T together.

[Sparma]

I'd certainly go for the first one, Murph. Why not?

Torn on the second one. There's quite a good chance that come next July we'd be asking how we could have passed on that. On the other hand, if Bullock resigned for 30 mil and 3 (or even somewhat more), we'd be relieved to have passed on it. I'm hoping someone in the Pistons front office has a better bead on the probabilities of Bullock resigning than I do. Because the sensibility of a slew of trades involving him turns on that.

Ish to the Bucks for Donte DiVincenzo and Effin Jody Meeks' expiring contact.

Or Ish and Bullock for DiVincenzo, a 1st rounder and Meek's expiring contract.

[Murph]

Ish to the Bucks for Donte DiVincenzo and Effin Jody Meeks' expiring contact.

Or Ish and Bullock for DiVincenzo, a 1st rounder and Meek's expiring contract.

[cool breeze]

Maybe it is the flu bug. Let's give them an out for this game because if we don't, all is lost.
Somehow Galloway managed to get hot at the right time and brought the Pistons back from a double digit hole. Then he missed that layup but then Galloway is a specialist like many players on this Piston team.

The time has passed for winning teams to bank on one or two players to go one on one with the game on the line. To win, there must be some teamwork and some idea coming out of timeouts whee the team looks like a real team instead of a group of 5 players who are playing a pick up game. Will it be Reggie Jackson or Blake Griffin who scores the points that make a difference? What if Dwayne Casey actually had a plan for success? I see no plays coming out of timeouts. Just improvise as best you can if you are Reggie Jackson or Blake Griffin. The rest of the crew should take on no responsibility it seems. Why is that? Why are things so simple with this team. Is the overall basketball IQ of this Piston team so low that no screens or movement without the ball by the three insignificant players who are on the floor with the two heroes can impact anything at all? I see that whenever the non heroes do touch the ball, they give it up as if their hands are being burned by the contact. What is this? I am not supposed to be a factor in crunch time. That is not my role. It is the role of RJ and BG to win it all. I feel sorry for everyone who actually spent the money and time to go to the arena and watch the Pistons in this last game. They were pitiful. The game plan was pitiful. Allowing Atlanta players to out work and out smart our players was a pitiful sight.

Like I suggested, the Pistons margin of error is extremely low. We do not have the top players in the NBA for sure. The team chemistry on the floor with the starting unit is not good at all. That group got the Pistons in a hole from the get go. The coaches cannot play the game. But they might be able to create a better offense that is not so one on one dominated. The coaches need to analysis who the players are that they are coaching and fit an offense and defense which will work the best. But instead Dwayne Casey is determined that this group will play his offense exactly like the players he coached in Toronto played. There were better skill players at the guard positions and small forward position. I would play the players who give the best effort on defense. The players who give the best effort can change the team chemistry for the better. Just throwing out specialists who are shooters only guarantees that your team will occasionally lose to a team like Atlanta. This franchise is trying to lose as many games as possible while the people who run the Pistons franchise are in a position financially where they must make a team without the necessary talent or will become winners. But then maybe it is the flu bug. There is too much pressure on Blake and Reggie. There is no offense being run. All 5 players on the opposing team can concentrate of two Piston players. The coach has not created any system where Blake and Reggie can take advantage of so much concentration on them. I didn't see any of the other 3 players on the floor doing much of anything productive relating to getting their asses open to take pressure off the two designated heroes. This is a dumb team using predictable strategy.

Merry Christmas to all including the Piston players who must be really down after this loss to perhaps the worst team in the NBA.

[Sparma]

Great ranting, BD, in the original and in the follow up.

I couldn't watch this afternoon, but could watch the debacle this evening, or a movie. Hmm.

Don, maybe we can agree that Stanley will be a really good NBA player if he becomes a good shooter from distance. Derrick Rose shows that massive improvement in distant shooting can be accomplished. Stanley's too young to write off. Clearly, our assessments of him in the present diverge.

What a laundry list of shortcomings on this team.

The oldest player on the court lights it up while our most promising youngster gets both knees iced? What going on? You can't make this stuff up.

And that's it until after Christmas. I'm guessing these Pistons have put only one forumite in a celebratory mood.

Still: Merry Christmas/ Happy Holidays to all.

It's Time For A Primal Scream.  This is a bad joke for those of us who remember what winning Piston basketball looks like.  Lately, the past few years, we've seen flashes of goodness.  It is inexplicable.  Why is it never sustainable?

Exhibit A, B, C...

A. Josh Smith was stretched, meanwhile Paul Milsap, who some of us wanted instead of "Smoove" is still a valuable piece, four years later.  Brandon Jennings tore up the league balling out for the Stones, then tore his achilles.  Disaster. We had DJ Augustine playing his ass off, but we had to have the Weggie, the Malcontent Who Thinks He Is Better Than Westbrook, but he ain't.

B. We made the playoffs:  As Sheed would say "both teams played hard," but we know "Ball Don't Lie." SVG mortgaged future prospects to gameplan for Kevin Love, giving us John-freaking Leuer.  Boban and Langston and Avery Bradley followed as Detroit continued to be the place where formerly competent players/shooters go to die.

C. Reload not Rebuild, was Dumars' excuse.  Gores took that idea to his breast, along with Drummond and Weggie and whispered it into SVG's ear. Let Moose walk and then KCP walk and don't even try to get a pick moving forward, cause we religiously sell our picks; that's what we do when Reload not Rebuild.

So we're reloading; good; and old man Stephanski smiled knowing it would buy him time to put his fingerprints all over another next few years of competent? mediocrity, meaning maybe we can be a .500 team and sneak into the playoffs on Blake's broad shoulders.  Casey, thought: "yeah, two all-stars and broken Weggie.  I can fix him, fix this."

And here we are: Can't trade Weggie cause we can't get equal value (hello! You never will).  He's a one-trick-pony, pick & roll; dribble dribble, probe, probe, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, oh we're still waiting.  But the burst is gone, the decision-making and shooting was never stellar, but now is woeful, attitude was never good, now it's almost irrelevant because the ball is out of his hands, per Casey's decree.  The great Weggie, Mr. Clutch, Mr. 4th quarter, sulks on the bench while 37-year-old Jose Calderone finishes games for the Coach of the Year." Why? Cause he can't be trusted to make the right play, find the shooters in rhythm, not look off his teamates, refuse the screen, then hoist another clank, but instead go HeroBaller 1 vs 3, and heave ho! more often than not.

What can be done?  Do we waste possibly the best year of Blake's career while we nibble around the edges and seriously consider trading our best shooter, who was second in the league from 3 last year and will likely command a premium, while we want to keep SJ because he plays pretty good defense, this for the worst shooting team in the league, with one of the worst offensive schemes and the results to prove it.  It's Not The Defense Dufus (not calling this forum Dufus) .  We lost to Charlotte 98-86, but all they can talk about is defensive lapses? while our worst shooter (Drummond) leads us with 18 shot attempts. 3 of our worst shooters (Weggie/Dre/SJ) hoist more 3s in that game than Bullock and Kennard, our sgs.  SMH   It's a pattern folks, a prescription for mediocrity, Casey!  

Meanwhile Zach Lowe recently stated that Weggie was "possibly the most selfish player in the league."  Casey, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Meanwhile the Atlanta Hawks are stealing our lunch money today!

Available PGs: Darren Collison, Corey Joseph, Yogi Ferrrell, Jeremy Lin, Frank Nicotine, Brandon Knight, and so it goes as we Reload rather than Rebuild.  The shitshow that keeps on giving.

NBA trade rumor says nobody want's Reggie Jackson unless A first round pick is attached to any deal. And the Pistons are not willing to do that. And Dame well, they should not be willing to give away A first round pick to delete A BUM off the team.

Reggie Jackson demeanor is terrible. The Stan Van Gundy error was A disaster. This current owner is TERRIBLE and I wish he would sale the team. I wish I had the money to buy the Pistons. I would set this thing right.

No more pushing to make the silly playoffs. Lose, draft well, rebuild, develop, coach, scout and trust the process.

In the NBA. The worst thing you can do is what the Pistons owner Gores is doing. Try to force feed your team into winning. Without drafting well and being patient. To you Gores I say... You have been A terrible owner. And you have no clue what your doing.

[Murph]

Wow. That's a stream of consciousness worthy of a Jack Kerouac novel. Great post.

It's Time For A Primal Scream.  This is a bad joke for those of us who remember what winning Piston basketball looks like.  Lately, the past few years, we've seen flashes of goodness.  It is inexplicable.  Why is it never sustainable?

Exhibit A, B, C...

A. Josh Smith was stretched, meanwhile Paul Milsap, who some of us wanted instead of "Smoove" is still a valuable piece, four years later.  Brandon Jennings tore up the league balling out for the Stones, then tore his achilles.  Disaster. We had DJ Augustine playing his ass off, but we had to have the Weggie, the Malcontent Who Thinks He Is Better Than Westbrook, but he ain't.

B. We made the playoffs:  As Sheed would say "both teams played hard," but we know "Ball Don't Lie." SVG mortgaged future prospects to gameplan for Kevin Love, giving us John-freaking Leuer.  Boban and Langston and Avery Bradley followed as Detroit continued to be the place where formerly competent players/shooters go to die.

C. Reload not Rebuild, was Dumars' excuse.  Gores took that idea to his breast, along with Drummond and Weggie and whispered it into SVG's ear. Let Moose walk and then KCP walk and don't even try to get a pick moving forward, cause we religiously sell our picks; that's what we do when Reload not Rebuild.

So we're reloading; good; and old man Stephanski smiled knowing it would buy him time to put his fingerprints all over another next few years of competent? mediocrity, meaning maybe we can be a .500 team and sneak into the playoffs on Blake's broad shoulders.  Casey, thought: "yeah, two all-stars and broken Weggie.  I can fix him, fix this."

And here we are: Can't trade Weggie cause we can't get equal value (hello! You never will).  He's a one-trick-pony, pick & roll; dribble dribble, probe, probe, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, oh we're still waiting.  But the burst is gone, the decision-making and shooting was never stellar, but now is woeful, attitude was never good, now it's almost irrelevant because the ball is out of his hands, per Casey's decree.  The great Weggie, Mr. Clutch, Mr. 4th quarter, sulks on the bench while 37-year-old Jose Calderone finishes games for the Coach of the Year." Why? Cause he can't be trusted to make the right play, find the shooters in rhythm, not look off his teamates, refuse the screen, then hoist another clank, but instead go HeroBaller 1 vs 3, and heave ho! more often than not.

What can be done?  Do we waste possibly the best year of Blake's career while we nibble around the edges and seriously consider trading our best shooter, who was second in the league from 3 last year and will likely command a premium, while we want to keep SJ because he plays pretty good defense, this for the worst shooting team in the league, with one of the worst offensive schemes and the results to prove it.  It's Not The Defense Dufus (not calling this forum Dufus) .  We lost to Charlotte 98-86, but all they can talk about is defensive lapses? while our worst shooter (Drummond) leads us with 18 shot attempts. 3 of our worst shooters (Weggie/Dre/SJ) hoist more 3s in that game than Bullock and Kennard, our sgs.  SMH   It's a pattern folks, a prescription for mediocrity, Casey!  

Meanwhile Zach Lowe recently stated that Weggie was "possibly the most selfish player in the league."  Casey, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Meanwhile the Atlanta Hawks are stealing our lunch money today!

Available PGs: Darren Collison, Corey Joseph, Yogi Ferrrell, Jeremy Lin, Frank Nicotine, Brandon Knight, and so it goes as we Reload rather than Rebuild.  The shitshow that keeps on giving.

NBA trade rumor says nobody want's Reggie Jackson unless A first round pick is attached to any deal. And the Pistons are not willing to do that. And Dame well, they should not be willing to give away A first round pick to delete A BUM off the team.

Reggie Jackson demeanor is terrible. The Stan Van Gundy error was A disaster. This current owner is TERRIBLE and I wish he would sale the team. I wish I had the money to buy the Pistons. I would set this thing right.

No more pushing to make the silly playoffs. Lose, draft well, rebuild, develop, coach, scout and trust the process.

In the NBA. The worst thing you can do is what the Pistons owner Gores is doing. Try to force feed your team into winning. Without drafting well and being patient. To you Gores I say... You have been A terrible owner. And you have no clue what your doing.

[BallinD]

CORRECTION:  Trade them all!  The Titanic is taking on water.  Screw It!  Peace on Earth Goodwill to men...except the Pistons.  They get a lump of coal!  They've earned it!  It won't buy them peace of mind after this latest Debacle!

No FTs, No Peace!  No Passion and Pride, No Peace.  No brains, No Peace!  No Coaching, No Peace!  No Shooting, No Peace! A  lump of coal for every damn one of them! My 42 wins prediction looks wildly optimistic. 

It's Time For A Primal Scream.  This is a bad joke for those of us who remember what winning Piston basketball looks like.  Lately, the past few years, we've seen flashes of goodness.  It is inexplicable.  Why is it never sustainable?

Exhibit A, B, C...

A. Josh Smith was stretched, meanwhile Paul Milsap, who some of us wanted instead of "Smoove" is still a valuable piece, four years later.  Brandon Jennings tore up the league balling out for the Stones, then tore his achilles.  Disaster. We had DJ Augustine playing his ass off, but we had to have the Weggie, the Malcontent Who Thinks He Is Better Than Westbrook, but he ain't.

B. We made the playoffs:  As Sheed would say "both teams played hard," but we know "Ball Don't Lie." SVG mortgaged future prospects to gameplan for Kevin Love, giving us John-freaking Leuer.  Boban and Langston and Avery Bradley followed as Detroit continued to be the place where formerly competent players/shooters go to die.

C. Reload not Rebuild, was Dumars' excuse.  Gores took that idea to his breast, along with Drummond and Weggie and whispered it into SVG's ear. Let Moose walk and then KCP walk and don't even try to get a pick moving forward, cause we religiously sell our picks; that's what we do when Reload not Rebuild.

So we're reloading; good; and old man Stephanski smiled knowing it would buy him time to put his fingerprints all over another next few years of competent? mediocrity, meaning maybe we can be a .500 team and sneak into the playoffs on Blake's broad shoulders.  Casey, thought: "yeah, two all-stars and broken Weggie.  I can fix him, fix this."

And here we are: Can't trade Weggie cause we can't get equal value (hello! You never will).  He's a one-trick-pony, pick & roll; dribble dribble, probe, probe, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, oh we're still waiting.  But the burst is gone, the decision-making and shooting was never stellar, but now is woeful, attitude was never good, now it's almost irrelevant because the ball is out of his hands, per Casey's decree.  The great Weggie, Mr. Clutch, Mr. 4th quarter, sulks on the bench while 37-year-old Jose Calderone finishes games for the Coach of the Year." Why? Cause he can't be trusted to make the right play, find the shooters in rhythm, not look off his teamates, refuse the screen, then hoist another clank, but instead go HeroBaller 1 vs 3, and heave ho! more often than not.

What can be done?  Do we waste possibly the best year of Blake's career while we nibble around the edges and seriously consider trading our best shooter, who was second in the league from 3 last year and will likely command a premium, while we want to keep SJ because he plays pretty good defense, this for the worst shooting team in the league, with one of the worst offensive schemes and the results to prove it.  It's Not The Defense Dufus (not calling this forum Dufus) .  We lost to Charlotte 98-86, but all they can talk about is defensive lapses? while our worst shooter (Drummond) leads us with 18 shot attempts. 3 of our worst shooters (Weggie/Dre/SJ) hoist more 3s in that game than Bullock and Kennard, our sgs.  SMH   It's a pattern folks, a prescription for mediocrity, Casey!  

Meanwhile Zach Lowe recently stated that Weggie was "possibly the most selfish player in the league."  Casey, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Meanwhile the Atlanta Hawks are stealing our lunch money today!

Available PGs: Darren Collison, Corey Joseph, Yogi Ferrrell, Jeremy Lin, Frank Nicotine, Brandon Knight, and so it goes as we Reload rather than Rebuild.  The shitshow that keeps on giving.

NBA trade rumor says nobody want's Reggie Jackson unless A first round pick is attached to any deal. And the Pistons are not willing to do that. And Dame well, they should not be willing to give away A first round pick to delete A BUM off the team.

Reggie Jackson demeanor is terrible. The Stan Van Gundy error was A disaster. This current owner is TERRIBLE and I wish he would sale the team. I wish I had the money to buy the Pistons. I would set this thing right.

No more pushing to make the silly playoffs. Lose, draft well, rebuild, develop, coach, scout and trust the process.

In the NBA. The worst thing you can do is what the Pistons owner Gores is doing. Try to force feed your team into winning. Without drafting well and being patient. To you Gores I say... You have been A terrible owner. And you have no clue what your doing.

[BallinD]

It's Time For A Primal Scream.  This is a bad joke for those of us who remember what winning Piston basketball looks like.  Lately, the past few years, we've seen flashes of goodness.  It is inexplicable.  Why is it never sustainable?

Exhibit A, B, C...

A. Josh Smith was stretched, meanwhile Paul Milsap, who some of us wanted instead of "Smoove" is still a valuable piece, four years later.  Brandon Jennings tore up the league balling out for the Stones, then tore his achilles.  Disaster. We had DJ Augustine playing his ass off, but we had to have the Weggie, the Malcontent Who Thinks He Is Better Than Westbrook, but he ain't.

B. We made the playoffs:  As Sheed would say "both teams played hard," but we know "Ball Don't Lie." SVG mortgaged future prospects to gameplan for Kevin Love, giving us John-freaking Leuer.  Boban and Langston and Avery Bradley followed as Detroit continued to be the place where formerly competent players/shooters go to die.

C. Reload not Rebuild, was Dumars' excuse.  Gores took that idea to his breast, along with Drummond and Weggie and whispered it into SVG's ear. Let Moose walk and then KCP walk and don't even try to get a pick moving forward, cause we religiously sell our picks; that's what we do when Reload not Rebuild.

So we're reloading; good; and old man Stephanski smiled knowing it would buy him time to put his fingerprints all over another next few years of competent? mediocrity, meaning maybe we can be a .500 team and sneak into the playoffs on Blake's broad shoulders.  Casey, thought: "yeah, two all-stars and broken Weggie.  I can fix him, fix this."

And here we are: Can't trade Weggie cause we can't get equal value (hello! You never will).  He's a one-trick-pony, pick & roll; dribble dribble, probe, probe, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, oh we're still waiting.  But the burst is gone, the decision-making and shooting was never stellar, but now is woeful, attitude was never good, now it's almost irrelevant because the ball is out of his hands, per Casey's decree.  The great Weggie, Mr. Clutch, Mr. 4th quarter, sulks on the bench while 37-year-old Jose Calderone finishes games for the Coach of the Year." Why? Cause he can't be trusted to make the right play, find the shooters in rhythm, not look off his teamates, refuse the screen, then hoist another clank, but instead go HeroBaller 1 vs 3, and heave ho! more often than not.

What can be done?  Do we waste possibly the best year of Blake's career while we nibble around the edges and seriously consider trading our best shooter, who was second in the league from 3 last year and will likely command a premium, while we want to keep SJ because he plays pretty good defense, this for the worst shooting team in the league, with one of the worst offensive schemes and the results to prove it.  It's Not The Defense Dufus (not calling this forum Dufus) .  We lost to Charlotte 98-86, but all they can talk about is defensive lapses? while our worst shooter (Drummond) leads us with 18 shot attempts. 3 of our worst shooters (Weggie/Dre/SJ) hoist more 3s in that game than Bullock and Kennard, our sgs.  SMH   It's a pattern folks, a prescription for mediocrity, Casey!  

Meanwhile Zach Lowe recently stated that Weggie was "possibly the most selfish player in the league."  Casey, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Meanwhile the Atlanta Hawks are stealing our lunch money today!

Available PGs: Darren Collison, Corey Joseph, Yogi Ferrrell, Jeremy Lin, Frank Nicotine, Brandon Knight, and so it goes as we Reload rather than Rebuild.  The shitshow that keeps on giving.

NBA trade rumor says nobody want's Reggie Jackson unless A first round pick is attached to any deal. And the Pistons are not willing to do that. And Dame well, they should not be willing to give away A first round pick to delete A BUM off the team.

Reggie Jackson demeanor is terrible. The Stan Van Gundy error was A disaster. This current owner is TERRIBLE and I wish he would sale the team. I wish I had the money to buy the Pistons. I would set this thing right.

No more pushing to make the silly playoffs. Lose, draft well, rebuild, develop, coach, scout and trust the process.

In the NBA. The worst thing you can do is what the Pistons owner Gores is doing. Try to force feed your team into winning. Without drafting well and being patient. To you Gores I say... You have been A terrible owner. And you have no clue what your doing.

[cool breeze]

The tough thing with Bullock is knowing the probability of his return, as you indicate, Murph.  If it's 10% or less, and there's already a clear sense about it, then you've got to trade him while the market is hot.  I'm guessing Philly would be happy to go for that Bullock/ Ish/ 2nd rounder for Fultz trade that they evidently snubbed last week, before Bullock broke his career high two games in a row.  At this point, I'm greedy and would want more, a decent 1st rounder.  Really, I don't want him traded at all.  Among the conditions, I mentioned above, I'm guessing the one that's missing now is clarity now about the future probability.

Don: "Last night Johnson was not a scorer. He was one of the few players who created shots for his teammates. This is a good idea."  Can't disagree with the first sentence, Don, but it wasn't for want of trying, what with 4 missed 3s in the first half.  He did tone it down after a good long rest.  My hunch is that Casey, maybe for the first time this season, conveyed a message to him after 4 long misses in the first half.  (Reasons to infer this?: a) he sat him for a long time, b) Stanley can't shoot from distance, so it's just reasonable to call for some restraint (he's like at .298 for the season and .296 for his career) c) Stanley played differently once he finally got back in the second half.)

Don: "What I like this season about this team is that they show that they really want to win every game and they play much harder than over the past two seasons."   I like their increased effort too, Don, although the coach had a point in complaining about last night's effort.  Somehow they still made it close at one point.

The Pistons margin for error is extremely low. All players must be on board with the idea that they must play with a chip on their shoulders every night knowing their margin for error is razor thin. Nothing should be taken for granted which means that every player must study video of the next opponent, the player they will be guarding, and understand all options available within Casey's offense before each game starts. What I see a lot of is lack of mental preparation by players who just show up and hope their long distance shot falls from night to night. What is the defense giving each player? Are they giving up a weak side 7 foot jump shot? If so, then players like Galloway who often shoots contested 3 point shots needs to find the open man and give the ball up. You mentioned Johnson's 3 point shooting and his percentage. Please notice in the next game that Johnson rarely if ever shoots a contested 3 point shot unless it is at the end of the shot clock. He plays smart so I can live with his misses because he has to keep shooting when he is wide open. The Suns have two young guys like Johnson who shot horribly from beyond the 3 point line last season and now their percentages have greatly increased. It is only a matter of time for Johnson. Notice in the last game our Pistons won, Johnson hit 3 or 4 three pointers in a row in the 2nd half. If he starts making the mid range and 3 point shots, then he will be able to score a lot more by driving the ball to the hoop. Opposing teams respect Johnson's ability to drive and are giving him those open looks. That is my belief and of course you have your opinion which I respect but hope the coach will live with Johnson's misses because he plays physical hard nosed defense, sets screens and rebounds.

Other players who play ahead of him like Galloway have very limited skills other than at times getting hot from the 3 point line. This team relies on making low percentage contested 3 point shots too much. Too many players who command the bulk of the playing time are ineffective defenders who often give up more points than they score. That is why the margin of error is so razor thin for this Piston team. I wish that this coach could develop more player and ball movement and feature more weak side scoring. If players like Reggie Jackson and AD can cut down on lazy turnovers and understand that every possession is important, that reduces the risk of losing as well. Detroit is guilty of shooting themselves in the foot with stupid mistakes because of mental errors but the encouraging thing is that they were much worse over the previous two seasons in that area. The Pistons goal this year should be to win 50% of the games they play against who have winning records. The Pistons are beating the bottom feeders so far and have occasionally beaten playoff teams, but often they have made too many mistakes to win games in the 4th quarter. Right now I do not believe we really know what kind of team the Pistons will be in March and April. They could fall flat as a pancake like in previous seasons or start consistently winning both at home and away.

I like the energy Bruce Brown brings to the Pistons. I think that Thomas has some of that spunk in him as well. Brown does not lack confidence. It shows on both offense and defense. I want less of Langston Galloway and and more of Brown and Thomas. It is great when the Pistons have both Johnson and Brown in the game at the same time. They get everyone playing much harder because of the energy they both give the team unselfishly.

[Phil-Good]

NBA trade rumor says nobody want's Reggie Jackson unless A first round pick is attached to any deal. And the Pistons are not willing to do that. And Dame well, they should not be willing to give away A first round pick to delete A BUM off the team.

Reggie Jackson demeanor is terrible. The Stan Van Gundy error was A disaster. This current owner is TERRIBLE and I wish he would sale the team. I wish I had the money to buy the Pistons. I would set this thing right.


No more pushing to make the silly playoffs. Lose, draft well, rebuild, develop, coach, scout and trust the process.


In the NBA. The worst thing you can do is what the Pistons owner Gores is doing. Try to force feed your team into winning. Without drafting well and being patient. To you Gores I say.. You have been A terrible owner. And you have no clue what your doing.

[Sparma]

The tough thing with Bullock is knowing the probability of his return, as you indicate, Murph. If it's 10% or less, and there's already a clear sense about it, then you've got to trade him while the market is hot. I'm guessing Philly would be happy to go for that Bullock/ Ish/ 2nd rounder for Fultz trade that they evidently snubbed last week, before Bullock broke his career high two games in a row. At this point, I'm greedy and would want more, a decent 1st rounder. Really, I don't want him traded at all. Among the conditions, I mentioned above, I'm guessing the one that's missing now is clarity now about the future probability.

Don: "Last night Johnson was not a scorer. He was one of the few players who created shots for his teammates. This is a good idea." Can't disagree with the first sentence, Don, but it wasn't for want of trying, what with 4 missed 3s in the first half. He did tone it down after a good long rest. My hunch is that Casey, maybe for the first time this season, conveyed a message to him after 4 long misses in the first half. (Reasons to infer this?: a) he sat him for a long time, b) Stanley can't shoot from distance, so it's just reasonable to call for some restraint (he's like at .298 for the season and .296 for his career) c) Stanley played differently once he finally got back in the second half.)

Don: "What I like this season about this team is that they show that they really want to win every game and they play much harder than over the past two seasons." I like their increased effort too, Don, although the coach had a point in complaining about last night's effort. Somehow they still made it close at one point.

[Murph]

Don't get me wrong, I like Reggie Bullock.  But he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season.  There is nothing to say that he would re-sign with us, even if the Pistons could afford him.  Why wouldn't he cash in on his new found success and go to a contender or a warmer climate?  And there is no way we can afford Bullock AND Stanley Johnson.  IMO, the Pistons should focus on the younger, better defender in Johnson, and try to sign him to a LT contract.  And Johnson is restricted, not unrestricted.


That said, the Pistons should look to trade Ish and/or Bullock to a contender.  There is no way that one or both of those two players could not help a contender like Philly win in the playoffs.  

I understand that Philly doesn't want to give up on Fultz, and to be truthful, Fultz is probably too big a risk health wise for us to take on.  But what about Shamet and filler?  Or what about a 1st rounder and filler for Ish and/or Bullock?

Let's get something for those guys.  Let's not just let them walk away like KCP, because he can't afford to brink them back.

Trade proposal:  Ish and Bullock for Shamet, a 1st rounder and Muscala, with the understanding that we'll cut Muscala and let him return to Philly for the veterans minimum.

[cool breeze]

First off everyone needs to be healthy. We fans never know what eh real story is regarding health issues from game to game with our players. But with that said, to beat this team, Detroit needs to have there best defenders in the game if the game is close. in this last game, Detroit was able to get the game in range to win. But AD didn't come out to defend Walker after he blew around Bullock.To me Bullock was not a factor on offense during crunch time. Therefore, Casey should have played Brown. Then Johnson and Brown could possibly made it tougher for Charlotte to score. However, the Pistons had no active big men to provide any resistance on pick and roll plays. That is what Charlotte identified as Detroit's biggest weakness. In Bullock's defense, you have to have a big man who communicates with the guard when playing defense. That didn't happen. Also, if Reggie Bullock is in the game during crunch time, plays have to be created so he touches the ball. It can't be all Reggie Jackson and Blake. The Pistons were not creative. They were predictable when it mattered most. But with that said, I think the Pistons can solve some of the problems that have prevented them to get on another winning streak.

Last night Johnson was not a scorer. He was one of the few players who created shots for his teammates. This is a good idea. The Pistons need one player on the floor who is not just a one on one player trying to get his shot. The other guy who is doing a lot for his teammates and playing unselfishly is Jon Leuer. It appears that Jon has turned himself into a much better team orientated player than he was in previous seasons. He is rotating well on defense unlike AD and BG. He is able to score close to the basket as well but what I like best is his movement on offense where he is setting screens off the ball. When the Pistons get everyone involved in the offense, they are hard to beat. When they resort to forcing things with one on one play too much, the entire team gets out of sync. The Pistons need more minutes from Brown and less minutes from Langston Galloway unless Galloway is shooting the ball extremely well. Dwayne Casey continues to experiment with lineups. I hope he settles on avoiding playing three players at the same time who cannot defend well. the team can hide on player in crunch time who is an ineffective defender but not two or three players.

What I like this season about this team is that they show that they really want to win every game and they play much harder than over the past two seasons. After the holidays, I hope they get tougher instead of weaker as they have done over the past two seasons. I don't think that will happen but time will tell. I am not wishing any trades at this time.

To all Piston fans, Happy Holidays and good luck.

[Phil-Good]

Sooooo.. New management. What are you going to do with this team?

Back of the line team. End of the bag of bread team. Last shot of soda in the bottle team.

Don't do anything crazy. Don't mortgage the future...

[Sparma]

Courageous night for a sick AD, getting 17 & 16.

Calderon hit three 3s in a row, but the second didn't count because it got off a split second late.

Reggie B off to a slow start but he ended up with a credible performance.

(btw, Stanley 0-4 from 3 (ending up 1-6) by the the time Reggie B went 1-2 from deep. I had the feeling Casey had seen enough because he pulled him for a long while.)

Reggie B served as more of a pivot than I've seen, with a couple of nice passes inside to Andre. Respecting his shooting, Charlotte left some space for others, and for a while it looked like Reggie/ the Pistons could exploit.

But a shortfall in his game came to the fore. That the hardest I've seen a team defend against him, and it looked like he had a lot of trouble dribbling out of trouble. He's good with the quick passes, but not so much with the passes out of trouble.

Kemba repeatedly torched Reggie B, making quick moves that left him five feet clear of his defender. No surprise there, but why did Reggie B continue to defend him late in the game? Reggie J was out there. I get that Reggie J's no match, but isn't Reggie B like 7 inches taller than Kemba and much slower? I don't think it's fair to expose him against Kemba; as coach, you've got to try something different.

And what the heck's going on with Kennard?

It's getting annoying losing to what seems to be a pretty ordinary Charlotte team, but one that's handed it to us repeatedly.

[Sparma]

I'd loved to see Bullock resigned.

That said, there are lots of twists and turns to this story.

Is it possible that the Pistons know that Bullock is very likely out of their reach, so that company man Langlois contributes to the either/or (Reggie/ Stanley) narrative as a face saving out? It's not just a matter of whether the Pistons are willing to offer the 12.5 Beard mentions (and performances like the last two games might quickly make that a low estimate). Maybe there's no space for Bullock in, say, LA, but he'd prefer to take the money and go to Miami and Phoenix? Might the team already have a sense of this, so the spin's started early?

I agree with Lemonpen that this is the time for Gores to back his financial promises (to SVG) and pay the luxury tax. No big deal, in a way, for a billionaire. Let's say they give Reggie B a huge offer (eg 45 mil for 3 years) and they resign Stanley for a big amount (eg 36 mil for 4 years). So what? It's one thing if you thing you've got great alternative possibility with that $$, but that seems doubtful.

Reggie B's exactly the kind of player they need, a genuinely complementary guy (incidentally, I'm starting to wonder if Kennard can play that role; it was with Blake out that he played like gangbusters) who excels in an area of huge need. As you say, BallinD, he's a willing pass (if not a creative one) and a serviceable defender. Why not go all out to get him?

Besides (I'd need to check), doesn't Smith's 5 mil finally come off the books in '20? And Reggie's got a year to go beyond this. So the luxury tax hit could just be temporary, a year long.

Still, I'm wondering if Gores's pride gets in the way. Wasn't SVG's message something like when the time comes Gores will be all in? If at the end of the season we're on the margins of the playoffs, either just in or just out, maybe Gores will feel the time hasn't come. We're heard sneering comments about the pay roll, tied to purported minimal expectations. I'm guessing that Gores feels the pressure of coming across as a smart business person. Going into luxury tax territory for a mediocre team opens him to widespread doubts, and even ridicule. Is he willing to go there?

Besides, after recent games (yes, small sample size), Bullock could get a really good return in trade. I could see getting a 1st rounder as well as dumping Reggie J, say in a deal with Houston for Brandon Knight and their 1st rounder, whom they're said to be offering around. The return in trade could be hard to resist at this point, not just as a face saver, but also because they might have an insider's perspective suggesting that the chances of Reggie B's return are slight.

But, yes, I'd go all out (but not to the point of a max deal!) to sign him.

Sparma: Is Bullock worth the $$, I guess is the question.  As the charter member of the Bullock for Pistons SG fan club, I would have to say yes:

1. Continuity.  At some point (now) we have to build something that looks like a sustainable identity moving forward and RB seems a good candidate with his play-the-right-way, low maintenance low-usage style, complimentary to Blake n Weggie.  Willing passer, willing cutter, decent defender and great shooter.  I saw him make a move in the Minny game, a nice crossover that led to a midrange hoop. Not the typical RB play, and maybe a hint that as he enters his prime, he can continue to grow his swag game.  Confidence and coaching support can do that for a player.  Continuity with his Synergy Buddy Blake can’t hurt and I’ve noticed Weggie no longer looks him off as much as he used to do.

2. His skillsets should age well and he could certainly be our SG of the future till we draft a true stud or Luke decides to grab the SG position by the throat.  As he ages a good 3&D wing can always fetch a good return in a trade (.445 on 3s last year).

3. Complimentary, does not need the ball in his hands to be deadly, just rise and let fly.  He can play either Wing position at 6’7”.

PLUS: I’m beginning to have a bit of faith that Casey can maybe reform Weggie, and that is our best bet this year to help us win as he hopefully regains some value.  We could not get anything for him w/o adding a pick, so they say... Pair Weggie with Bullock and we just need a starting beast of a Wing to make it work.  P.S: Not buying the false choice of keeping RB or SJ, find a way to keep em both for the Blake Window or we suffer continued mediocrity for sure.

[BallinD]

Sparma: Is Bullock worth the $$, I guess is the question. As the charter member of the Bullock for Pistons SG fan club, I would have to say yes:

1. Continuity. At some point (now) we have to build something that looks like a sustainable identity moving forward and RB seems a good candidate with his play-the-right-way, low maintenance low-usage style, complimentary to Blake n Weggie. Willing passer, willing cutter, decent defender and great shooter. I saw him make a move in the Minny game, a nice crossover that led to a midrange hoop. Not the typical RB play, and maybe a hint that as he enters his prime, he can continue to grow his swag game. Confidence and coaching support can do that for a player. Continuity with his Synergy Buddy Blake can’t hurt and I’ve noticed Weggie no longer looks him off as much as he used to do.

2. His skillsets should age well and he could certainly be our SG of the future till we draft a true stud or Luke decides to grab the SG position by the throat. As he ages a good 3&D wing can always fetch a good return in a trade (.445 on 3s last year).

3. Complimentary, does not need the ball in his hands to be deadly, just rise and let fly. He can play either Wing position at 6’7”.

PLUS: I’m beginning to have a bit of faith that Casey can maybe reform Weggie, and that is our best bet this year to help us win as he hopefully regains some value. We could not get anything for him w/o adding a pick, so they say... Pair Weggie with Bullock and we just need a starting beast of a Wing to make it work. P.S: Not buying the false choice of keeping RB or SJ, find a way to keep em both for the Blake Window or we suffer continued mediocrity for sure.

[Sponsored content]