Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

2 days ago –  via Twitter diamond83


Diamond Leung: Liberty’s Isiah Thomas on Pistons having job openings: “Am I interested in Detroit? One hundred percent. And anything the Pistons ask of me or want me to do, I would listen. But I am definitely interested and would want to listen to what they have to say.”

This is the sh!t that our local media should be reporting on instead of the "man on the moon candidates." From boneheads (Jerry Stackhouse; anyone remember how he never learned that his spin dribble to split two or more defenders would never work?) to broads (yeah, I'm sexist when it comes to my basketball; I don't believe that todays game is ready for an unproven female coach can come in here and make a difference, so bye-bye Ms. Hammon, this ain't the place for you to try and make a name for yourself.)

Chauncey and Isiah should be a part of whatever Bower is doing to improve the Pistons roster and make the most of that lonely 2nd round pick. Regardless if Bower is around after June 30th or not, Chauncey and Isiah should be a part of the Pistons front office going forward.

dX thanks for sharing the truth about the comment from Zeke. the Piston's rich owner controls the local media. What is new? Isiah Thomas has provided his thoughts about what needs to change relating to the Pistons several times over the disappointing under engaged exhibition of fake basketball provided by Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. Those two are the Pistons proclaimed team leaders by this owner. SVG did what he was told to do and complied. SVG was told to close down any players only meetings and he did to protect the dysfunctional twosome. So the cat is out of the bag. I thought perhaps Zeke would not want to be involved in this mess called the Pistons. But that is not true. This owner is afraid of what Zeke would want to do the change the culture of this basketball team. Two players would be on the chopping block. The Pistons need a change in leadership within the basketball team itself. Maybe a guy like Blake Griffin could help change the culture but for sure nobody believes that Reggie and Andre will do anything but attempt to build up their own stats at the expense of their team. I don't personally hate either player and wish them well of course as soon as they start playing for another team other than our Pistons.

Zeke has never cared about anything relating to basketball other than winning. He was that way as a high school player, college player and a a team leader for a group of champions called the Bad Boys. If he could take control of the Pistons there would be electricity in the air in Detroit. Our hero would be back. The nonsense would end. There would be no way that this owner could intimidate Zeke. He wouldn't dare to make the attempt.

dX you have exposed this owner big time. Tom Gores wants to protect Andre Drummond at all cost. Tom consulted with AD about every aspect of things relating to the Pistons to keep AD happy. Even when it came to being time to fire SVG, Tom Gores made it clear to the press that he would consult with AD first. Apparently, AD gave the thumbs down. I see by the article on the right that the owner is considering hiring the first female head coach. Maybe Tom will do it and then hire an idiot for the GM job and then offer Zeke the option to be a figure head President with no power to make change. I expect the same nonsense next season with AD dancing in pre game with the new female head coach while the rest of the roster players form a circle to cheer them on to dancing glory. The owner will love this type of entertainment. Could it be that we posters actually think more about the real problems this team has relating to being able to compete with other NBA teams than this owner? Maybe he only occasionally picks up the local paper to see what is going on with his team. Well the team is headed for the toilet. If Zeke isn't offered a leadership job, then I expect most fans will pay about as much attention to this team as the owner does.

[WTF]

I would like to see Boston and Houston in the Finals this year only because I really hate the Warriors, and I'm sick of all the MJ vs Lebron debates.  Don't get me wrong I don't like either the Celtics or Rockets I'm just tired of fake teams like GS. I do like Lebron but he's no MJ and that crap needs to stop.   So I guess I'm cheering for the Celtics and Rockets with no real interest in who wins it all.

Back on the Home Front it's really hard being a loyalist to the home team because they're without substance.  I hate Gore as an owner, I don't like many of the players on this team because I don't see the commitment and effort and in today's watered down league that's all it really takes to win.  I honestly believe that if our players just played hard and with purpose they could be title contenders.  There's just no commitment to winning on this team anymore and that's what hurts and make me not like this team and ownership.  Mr. D was a committed owner, the players played hard and this team saw collectively 5 trips to the finals and ruled the East for 15 seasons.   That seem like forever ago.

[deusXango]

2 days ago – via Twitter diamond83


Diamond Leung: Liberty’s Isiah Thomas on Pistons having job openings: “Am I interested in Detroit? One hundred percent. And anything the Pistons ask of me or want me to do, I would listen. But I am definitely interested and would want to listen to what they have to say.”

This is the sh!t that our local media should be reporting on instead of the "man on the moon candidates." From boneheads (Jerry Stackhouse; anyone remember how he never learned that his spin dribble to split two or more defenders would never work?) to broads (yeah, I'm sexist when it comes to my basketball; I don't believe that todays game is ready for an unproven female coach can come in here and make a difference, so bye-bye Ms. Hammon, this ain't the place for you to try and make a name for yourself.)

Chauncey and Isiah should be a part of whatever Bower is doing to improve the Pistons roster and make the most of that lonely 2nd round pick. Regardless if Bower is around after June 30th or not, Chauncey and Isiah should be a part of the Pistons front office going forward.

[Oracle]

First, you're 100% right on the BG trade, why we gave up so much boggles the mind and reminds me of the Bradley trade!

Boston couldn't move Bradley with a Backhoe, nobody wanted a gimpy half pint SG, but nutty SVG and some Piston fans thought it was a bargain of epic proportions.

Ditto BG, the Clippers couldn't even get Bekins to show up and move him, but here we come again, giving up WAY too much, and smiling about it.

The only difference is that Griffin plays more games per year and is capable of getting his own shot and passing the ball without becoming a turnover machine like Bradley was.

Your Trade Logic: You think we should trade Drummond & Reggie, but you also think they're useless, so what do you think we could get for them?

Don, we don't have any picks, so we won't be able to rebuild in any meaningful way, and using YOUR logic, nobody is going to trade us an up and coming player for the trash players(your thoughts) we have.

No, it makes better sense to 

1. Get a good coach that will make the players play and look better.
2. Tweak the roster to make it marginally better
3. Keep our picks, and do our best to trade for and accumulate additional picks.

You always say... "True Piston Fans....", fill in the blank, but true Piston fans don't keep threatening to NOT watch the team they claim to love.

Stop the emotional stuff and focus on how to move forward, this is a bad period, but it's going to get better... this city and region deserves better.

[cool breeze]

Don...thank you for interjecting some realism into your post today.  I don't necessarily believe that now is the time for a complete tear-down and re-build of our Pistons.  

However, if we are going to rebuild, we need to start with Blake Griffin's contract, first and always.  Griffin is the oldest of our stars, one of the most injury prone, and has the biggest, most onerous contract.  Griffin needs to be moved first in any rebuild.  It doesn't make sense to rebuild by trading younger players like Jackson and Drummond who have better contracts, while keeping Griffin.

After Griffin and his contract are moved, then Pistons management can think about moving the rest of the roster for draft picks.

It is very doubtful that Tom Gores would consider trading Griffin after giving up our first round pick and three other players. The three players given to the Clippers could have brought much more than Blake Griffin's aging body alone so the the loss of the pick just shows the stupidity of this owner when it comes to dealing in the NBA. It would be necessary for the Pistons to agree to pay a high percentage of Blake's contract for any team to consider making a trade. And I doubt if the Pistons could get a number one pick with any deal involving Blake. So if Piston fans are dumb enough to watch this team next season then expect to see a lot of Griffin's 3 point shot attempts.

The following fact should not be a shocker for Piston fans so logic and reason should conclude that trading AD and RJ would be a step in the right direction. The Pistons have never really looked like a up and coming NBA team with those two players. Since RJ and AD have been the team leaders, the Pistons have played low IQ losing basketball with a sprinkle of lack of engagement. Neither player has shown that they care about changing how they play the game. Now this summer instead of working with a big man coach to learn how to become a better defender and shot blocker, AD is working on his outside shooting. What would make the Pistons harder to beat? AD the big athletic center has been advised by his agent to build up his offensive stats. Does AD care about winning? If he worked really hard in the off season to lose weight and learn the fundamentals of playing sound defense along with learning how to anticipate better show he can block more shots and intimidate drivers, the Pistons could be much better. But he has no interest in that area at all. He never had been interested in showcasing amazing defensive skills. Neither AD or RJ have a good aptitude or desire to play effective defense so they would suck in playoff situations. The big mistake made by many fans is that they believe that at the NBA level the right coach can change players like AD and RJ. Only if the NBA was structured with winner take all and losers get no money would players like RJ and AD provide everything humanly possible for their team to win. Otherwise, those two players will do what they have always done. They love offense and being the star on the offense. That is why AD is working on his outside jumper. So expect both Blake and Andre to loft up plenty of 3 pointers and complete with Reggie for hogging the basketball next year.

In my opinion why would anyone want to come back with a team that has potential to have a 45-50 win season? Would that record even be good enough next year to make the 8th spot in the East?

Griffin is going to swallow up a huge chunk of the payroll. He is going nowhere but a sane owner would at least be trying to figure something out about his salary. AD is the only player that some other NBA team might bite on relating to a potential trade that could bring the Pistons a high draft pick next summer. The only way the Pistons are going to rise to the top will be through the draft. SVG somehow got Tom Gores to believe otherwise. Unless the Pistons start scoring big in the draft, they will be cannon fodder for many years. I really do not see any downside of trading AD. He is not a winning type player or a player who fits the modern NBA style of play. However, with the quantity of good big men in this draft perhaps have have over rated the value of Andre Drummond. He not only doesn't fit the modern NBA but he is not a smart player. GMs know that fact. But to keep AD for $25 Million along with RJ's high salary is plain stupid. RJ plays like an old basketball player. His cardio and legs have seen better days. He is not worth half of his contract amount. My previous post was a homer because I have cared about the Pistons for a long time. My gut feeling is that no team who might be interested in taking AD would ever agree to also take Reggie Jackson's contract. There are two facts that nobody can dispute. No NBA team would agree to take either Jackson or Leuer's contract unless the Pistons took on some higher more horrible contracts of players who are not worth what they are making. No team would want Reggie Jackson for any price over $5 Mil/yr. and that is a stretch. No team would agree to pay Leuer even $1 mil/yr. Galloway might be able to earn $2mil on a one year contract. The Pistons have shot themselves in the foot. The fans are left with only one thing to do. They need to show they disapproval of the way this owner has handled something we once loved by not supporting the Pistons. No purchase of Piston merchandise now because Piston fans are embarrassed to be associated with a Front office that could be this dumb. We all wish for the success of the young guys on their first contracts and the older players who made the rotation last season. But who wants to watch RJ, BG, and AD knowing that they are making much more money than the players who beat them on a regular basis who make a fraction of their earnings. RJ and AD have been slackers as players who never give a consistent hard effort from game to game. They play hard in spurts and yet the owner has designated them as the team leaders. No team can win with slackers as their leaders. RJ said he wished that he could have done more referring to the firing of SVG. Well if that is true then why in hell did he give with weakest effort of any starting point guard on defense?

If Stanley Johnson does figure out how to release the ball properly with his jump shot and has a great season, there is no way he will be returning to the Pistons. They won't be able to afford his price tag if that happens. By the way, if Johnson is reading this post, please watch the successful shooters who are playing in the playoffs. They are shooting the ball like Johnson used to shoot it with a one handed release instead of keeping both hands on the ball at the point of release. The Piston's coaching staff screwed up this young kid so bad that he is shooting jump shots worse than he did when playing in high school. But the real story is that the Piston Front office led by Tom Gores has screwed up the Piston payroll so badly they the team will not be able to keep good young players if they ever get any.

Still nobody is mentioning the names of any of the Bad Boys to save the sinking ship. Billups most likely is not going to take any job with the Pistons knowing the situation is impossible. Any new coach will have to agree to allow RJ and AD to be the team leaders as Tom Gores will make sure that language is written into their contracts because of his Father - Son relationship with AD and RJ. What I would like to see it Zeke take control and hire Dennis Rodman to coach the big men. He can wear a dress if he wants to but for sure Dennis would go nuts in practice watching the way AD moves in the defensive rotation system. He would get in AD's face when he comes to the bench much like D. Green did in the time out with his teammates in this last game against Houston. If only the Pistons had a guy with Green's heart. We only have part time players.

[BallinD]

If Gores, a venture capitalist, cares more about valuations, the illusion of progress (covering empty red seats), get a star in there and sing his praises,  tout middling (profitable) mediocrity, and the Kiki Vandeweghe's of the world, what can we really say: It's not the Pistons way?.  

We saw the Karen Davidson era and what that wrought, and so here we are, watching him pile up money and no, you can't buy a ship, nor can you buy respect Gores.  

Maybe we care too much.  The Pistons are soooooooo "Yesterday's relevancy" in today's NBA. Is that how Gores sees Chauncey and Zeke and old school fans like us.

[deusXango]

A rebuild not required perhaps a minor retooling and a couple of upgrades.  I agree with Oracle that we have a 45-50 win team and a second round dismissal from the playoffs right now but in order to truly be a contending team we need a competent coach and a upgrade at PG.    

However I'm starting to think Gore is a joke and has no serious intentions of really wanting to build a winner especially since he has no desire it seems to tap into the teams winning history and tradition because Zeke or CB are not considered leading candidates for either position.  Keeping Bower is just plan stupid being he was SVG guy.

A mouthful was said with that! Has this idiot ever considered how insulting this is to those who labored hard to climb that mountain of excellence and the city that celebrated them? Chauncey and Isiah are leaders of genuine Detroit heroes.

[WTF]

A rebuild not required perhaps a minor retooling and a couple of upgrades.  I agree with Oracle that we have a 45-50 win team and a second round dismissal from the playoffs right now but in order to truly be a contending team we need a competent coach and a upgrade at PG.    

I too think that there's untapped potential in Kennard and Ellensen with the right coaching staff, and with the right coach AD could be properly motivated to play better defensively and I think this BG last chance to get it right.  Money he has but do he want show he's a winner?

However I'm starting to think Gore is a joke and has no serious intentions of really wanting to build a winner especially since he has no desire it seems to tap into the teams winning history and tradition because Zeke or CB are not considered leading candidates for either position.  Keeping Bower is just plan stupid being he was SVG guy.

[Oracle]

Mike Budenholzer has agreed to become the Milwaukee Bucks next head coach, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

The contract is reportedly a four-year deal.

Here's more from Wojnarowski:

The Bucks negotiated a deal with Budenholzer's representative on Wednesday, hours after a breakfast meeting with All-Star forward Giannis Antetokounmpo and Khris Middleton, league sources said.

For general manager Jon Horst, Budenholzer was long his top target and a finalized contract is expected to be completed soon, league sources said.

The other finalist for the job, San Antonio assistant Ettore Messina, was informed that he was out of the running on Wednesday, league sources said.

Budenholzer hit the market after parting ways with the rebuilding Atlanta Hawks in April, a decision the franchise deemed as mutual. 

[Oracle]

This isn't a bad team, this team can make the playoffs and get to the 2nd round with good coaching.

This is NOT the time to rebuild!

1. You can't rebuild with no #1 draft picks
2. We really got screwed because this draft is Big Man heavy, and with the kind of Modern Big Men we would want
3. We need to showcase the guys we want to move before we can move them.

So how should we proceed? My guess is the following

1. Showcase both Reggie & Blake by reducing their minutes as much as reasonably possible to keep them fresh and healthy.
2. We need to really see how both Reggie and Blake perform, injury wise. Blake went 4 years missing only 4 games, so will he get better? Reggie was under low usage in OKC, will the resting he's getting help him next year?
3. Drummond is capable of growing into a BEAST. Can a new coaching staff get that out of him? SVG was just horrible at developing anybody, not a single player got better than the skills they already brought to the table. I credit Drummond more than SVG for his development, but SVG does get a little there.
4. Make damn sure that Stanley, Ellenson & especially Kennard get good PT. IMO, all three have untapped potential that a better coaching staff could ignite.
5. Try hard to keep our role players, I also think they suffered under SVG.

Finally, just be prepared to make major moves especially if #1 picks can be had. If #1 picks are available then we can talk about a full rebuild!

However, this is a 45-50 win team with a good coach, and a ECF contender with a better PG, IMO!

[Murph]

Don...thank you for interjecting some realism into your post today.  I don't necessarily believe that now is the time for a complete tear-down and re-build of our Pistons.  

However, if we are going to rebuild, we need to start with Blake Griffin's contract, first and always.  Griffin is the oldest of our stars, one of the most injury prone, and has the biggest, most onerous contract.  Griffin needs to be moved first in any rebuild.  It doesn't make sense to rebuild by trading younger players like Jackson and Drummond who have better contracts, while keeping Griffin.

After Griffin and his contract are moved, then Pistons management can think about moving the rest of the roster for draft picks.

[cool breeze]

Good point about the other teams that are worse off than us in draft prospects, Wise.

Oracle, your reference to "system" is likely where the two of us would most agree concerning the role of coaches.  Still, you write: "Here, they bought in" [to the system].  I'd agree, up to a point.  SVG wanted the team to bring the ball up faster than Reggie was willing to do so on the regular, and he wanted Reggie back quicker [some improvement there this year].  Also, in partial agreement with Don, I have trouble believing that Drummond consistently complied with the defensive assignment SVG drew up.  Still, at least for those first 20 games it looked like there was a nice alignment between team and coach.

And I've figured out who we should bring in as coach [mild attempt at humor ahead, along with something heartfelt]: Vince Lombardi.  Have been reading parts of an old book on coaches called Beyond Winning, that devotes a chapter to Lombardi.  The author, Walton, points out that Lombardi pulled off the all time turnaround (maybe along with Bill Walsh), coming into years of losing.  The remarkable thing is that the roster didn't turn over that much, with 3rd stringer Bart Starr, Heisman perceived flop Paul Hornung, and ineffective Jim Taylor among those already on board.  Lombardi did a number of things, foremost among which may have been running simple plays to perfection.  One player marveled that in a long training session they dwelled on two plays.

I'm afraid that the moral may be: we need a miracle, we need a Vince Lombardi.

In basketball terms, we may need someone like Mike d'Antoni who really imposes a system on his roster, emphasizing variations on a small number of plays.  Of course that didn't work well in NY or LA, and we (like NY and LA) don't have a roster well suited to his system.  An updated Phil Jackson (Steve Kerr?) might fit this roster well; with better than average passing out of PF and C and the need to conform our PG to the best interests of the team, I think an updated triangle might work well for us.

But what are the odds?  Lombardi does show that the kind of miracle we need can happen.  In fact the Pistons may well have better prospects than GB did when Lombardi arrived.

I still like Budenholzer, but evidently both Toronto and Milwaukee have made overtures already.

Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

These are all playoff teams the Pistons on the other hand are not so the sacrifice of a 1st is a lot worse.  But not to worry my prediction will come true

You have said all that needs to be said with the title to your most recent post "Our Fate Is Sealed". Dumb and Dumber was the title to a movie but if someone made a movie about the Pistons since Tom Gores brought the team wouldn't that be the appropriate title? A friend called me from Michigan last night after the draft lottery. He made the point that the only member of the current Piston team who was drafted in the top 5 is Blake Griffin. Then he laughed after telling me a story about how hard the Clippers were trying to trade Griffin when it was decided to blow up their team and start over. He made the point again that the Pistons have a history of negotiating much like our State Department did when they negotiated the Iran Nuke deal. First off they were negotiating with an elected leader who had no real decision making ability. The real leader was The head religious leader who was out demonstrating "Death to America" at the time. Tom Gores wanted Blake Griffin at any cost. No other team in the NBA was interested in Blake's ability to earn his amazing contract over the next 4 seasons. So just like our State Department the words spoken had to be " Hey what do you want to make a deal with us? We know there are a lot of other teams that want Blake's contract out there so please give us a chance. OK well we think that Tobias Harris is very young and has great potential but you will have to give us a lot more. Tom and SVG agree with no argument. OK well how about your back up center and that former stand out from Boston you traded for with Marcus Morris? OK no problem. OK you see my son really loves Blake so then do we have a deal? Well how about your number one pick too? You OK with that? Sure thing. Man we sure were a lot smarter than Joe Dumars when he threw in Middleton on that Jennings-Knight trade where no other team wanted Jennings either. This Detroit franchise is really going places now. My friend believes that is the way things went down in that trade. The Pistons have been known for a long time as having the dumbest front office in the entire NBA. Everyone gets the best of the Pistons. That is true even in free agency deals.

This is my solution to the current mess knowing this Piston team is going to never be good enough to win a series in the playoffs if they ever make the playoffs.

1. Trade Blake Griffin and agree to pay 50% of his contract.Get a number one draft pick in the deal.

2. Trade Andre Drummond under the condition that the trading partner also will take Reggie Jackson. Agree to pay part of Reggie's contract. Get a high number one pick and two rotation players with short contracts.

3. Buy out Jon Leuer and Langston Galloway's contracts spread out like the Josh Smith buyout.

Lose as many games as possible while snagging some young players who show promise in the G League over the next two seasons. Win the battle of the ping pong balls and get at least a number 3 pick next season in the draft. Actually I believe watching the Pistons through this rebuild would be far more exciting than watching Reggie Jackson, Blake Griffin and Andre Drummond fight for a playoff spot next season.

Danny Ainge has created a super power in a very short time period in Boston. The Pistons need a young smart GM who has complete decision making ability with no interference from the owner. In SVG's defense, I think he put up with a lot of back seat driving by Tom Gores and his buddies who know nothing about NBA basketball. Plus this silly relationship the owner has had with AD has been very destructive which allowed the player to tell the head coach to shove it whenever he felt like it. This Blake Griffin trade was completing orchestrated by Tom Gores with his ties to LA. The Clippers made a complete fool of the Pistons which will make any future deal making difficult for our team. No GM in their right mind would have traded away Tobias Harris and company for a player with a long history of knee issues among other things plus give away a number one pick. Blake has played physical and hard and his body has suffered too much trauma to expect him to play like an elite player. That should have been factored in if the Piston decision makers had any brains at all. The Pistons will look good until the middle of December and crash and burn like always. So wise up and admit the mistakes that have been made and do what is necessary to build a positive future. The draft is the only way to do it.

[WTF]

When it comes to predictions, you're close or right on for our season records.

However, your feelings are WAY off. 

1. You had a feeling that Reggie would be traded before the season... WRONG
2. You had a feeling we would keep our pick... WRONG

You're batting 0% on feelings, but in your defense, they were good feelings that just didn't come true 

The revenge of Darko still haunts us!!!

I could have sworn you post prior to the above post we were going to land a top 3 pick.  I thought the God's were in our favor   Well it looked good for a minute but hey I'm holding out hope on the coaching choice hope it's a good one.

[Oracle]

Case 1: Superman abused... sexually!

Yes, everyone is familiar with Aliens regularly abducting humans and abusing them sexually with all manner of probes. I won't mention names, but one of the symptoms of this dreaded alien abuse shows up in posters as a fear of the enter key!

This causes the poster to rattle off huge paragraphs as they struggle to get a grip on their thoughts, and as a result, sometimes they're coherent, and others just plain spacey 

But I digress, now we have humans abusing aliens. This would be a better world if Superman had been able to get out of therapy and save the world, but constant abuse by his parents, The Kents, left that poor soul a mess and unable to control his bowels, let alone his powers.

Case 2: Stan Van Gundy sexually abuses the Pistons organization and fans.

I think this statement by Gores covers the entire sordid situation.

"Van Gundy straight up F**ked us all, and I accept full responsibility for any and all swollen membranes!"

[Sparma]

Good point about the other teams that are worse off than us in draft prospects, Wise.

Oracle, your reference to "system" is likely where the two of us would most agree concerning the role of coaches. Still, you write: "Here, they bought in" [to the system]. I'd agree, up to a point. SVG wanted the team to bring the ball up faster than Reggie was willing to do so on the regular, and he wanted Reggie back quicker [some improvement there this year]. Also, in partial agreement with Don, I have trouble believing that Drummond consistently complied with the defensive assignment SVG drew up. Still, at least for those first 20 games it looked like there was a nice alignment between team and coach.

And I've figured out who we should bring in as coach [mild attempt at humor ahead, along with something heartfelt]: Vince Lombardi. Have been reading parts of an old book on coaches called Beyond Winning, that devotes a chapter to Lombardi. The author, Walton, points out that Lombardi pulled off the all time turnaround (maybe along with Bill Walsh), coming into years of losing. The remarkable thing is that the roster didn't turn over that much, with 3rd stringer Bart Starr, Heisman perceived flop Paul Hornung, and ineffective Jim Taylor among those already on board. Lombardi did a number of things, foremost among which may have been running simple plays to perfection. One player marveled that in a long training session they dwelled on two plays.

I'm afraid that the moral may be: we need a miracle, we need a Vince Lombardi.

In basketball terms, we may need someone like Mike d'Antoni who really imposes a system on his roster, emphasizing variations on a small number of plays. Of course that didn't work well in NY or LA, and we (like NY and LA) don't have a roster well suited to his system. An updated Phil Jackson (Steve Kerr?) might fit this roster well; with better than average passing out of PF and C and the need to conform our PG to the best interests of the team, I think an updated triangle might work well for us.

But what are the odds? Lombardi does show that the kind of miracle we need can happen. In fact the Pistons may well have better prospects than GB did when Lombardi arrived.

I still like Budenholzer, but evidently both Toronto and Milwaukee have made overtures already.

Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

These are all playoff teams the Pistons on the other hand are not so the sacrifice of a 1st is a lot worse.  But not to worry my prediction will come true

[Oracle]

When it comes to predictions, you're close or right on for our season records.

However, your feelings are WAY off. 

1. You had a feeling that Reggie would be traded before the season... WRONG
2. You had a feeling we would keep our pick... WRONG

You're batting 0% on feelings, but in your defense, they were good feelings that just didn't come true 

The revenge of Darko still haunts us!!!

[WTF]

Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

These are all playoff teams the Pistons on the other hand are not so the sacrifice of a 1st is a lot worse.  But not to worry my prediction will come true

[cool breeze]

Everyone on the same page working together as a unit. Players moving with purpose without the basketball. Everyone setting screens for each other. Players not known for playing defense digging down deep and making steals. Passing the basketball to the right man at the right time. Golden State has the right players and the right coach. Who in today's NBA game does things better than Brad Stevens and Steve Kerr. Players love playing for them. They are smart, cool and calm. They never turn their backs to the floor and rant to the bench players when things are going wrong. That was a tendency of both Frank and SVG. Golden State makes a great contrast to Cleveland's muscle game with Labron James. It is great to have two styles having success in today's NBA. Labron James is perhaps the greatest player of all time because he can play every position and defend every position. But I can't say that I like watching the Cavaliers.

My prediction for the next matchup between Boston and Cleveland is that the NBA Front office will have had a meeting with the officials who will be calling the game. The meeting will be about strategy to help Cleveland win this game by employing to no call system relating to the high screen set by Tristian Thompson so Labron can have an easy path to the basket for a layup. The screen that I have identified along with many other basketball people is illegal. The screener runs full blast on the blind side of Labron's defender and never stops to set a screen. The screener just runs straight into the defender knocking him off balance. This is how Cleveland turned around the series against Indiana in the first round. Indiana had them by the throat and suddenly you see Thompson doing his thing. This is not just a moving screen where the screener comes to a jump stop and then moves his hip into the defender. Thompson set screens that would be illegal blind side blocks in football. No call. No call. No call. It will be interesting to see if Cleveland employs this secret weapon in Boston's arena. If so those fans are educated on playing basketball the right way and might start throwing things on the hardwood.

Where do our Piston players stack up when thinking to the quality of basketball being played in the Western Conference Finals? I can't see where any of our players with the exception of Blake Griffin could earn playing time with either team. AD would be to confused to have any clue what the Warriors were trying to do on either offense or defense. Can the next coach somehow help our players elevate their games so the team can be more competitive in regular season games not to mention playoff situations? No way with our current set of guards. Neither Reggie or Ish could beat out any of the guards on either team playing in the Western Conference finals or for that matter any of the guards who played in the playoffs in either conference. Why would they be on the bench much like Monroe currently is located in Boston? Lack of ability to defend perhaps? With our guards the other reason would be lack of ability to organize an offense or think more than one play ahead. Whoever takes over the new jobs will be trying like hell to remove the players who have a habit of being on losing teams. But how can any GM find a way to trade Reggie Jackson? And how will any new coach adjust to coaching AD who now is hell bent on showing his skill set with the outside jump shot? Houston coaches have done wonders with their young center who is very coachable. AD will be who he wants to be and that doesn't include ever becoming the best defensive center in the NBA which is could be capable of becoming. That is not his goal. His goal is to follow goals set by his agent to compile stats and to showcase more offensive skills. How about working on basketball IQ AD? How about playing the team first game where teammates can count on you to provide full engagement in every game on defense? somehow the desire to WIN is not part of AD's makeup. Everyone in the playoffs are scratching and clawing and fighting like hell on defense. They know that in the end getting stops will mean the difference between winning and losing. Too bad the best Piston player this year (Tolliver) will not be back because BG, AD, RJ, JL, and LG have stolen the Piston's payroll. Which one of those players would any GM have a chance of trading due to the size of their contracts compared with their skill as an NBA player? And the Pistons have no number one pick again. No chance of getting a steal in the first round. My question is who will take the new jobs being offered by Tom Gores knowing the Pistons will not be able to start a rebuild or be competitive with solid NBA teams for many years to come? This current era of Piston history seems to repeat itself. The team starts out playing hard with purpose out of training camp. They seem to click up until the month of December and then start a long slide into the pits of hell until spring comes around. There are games in the middle of winter where fans see the highest paid players slacking off at times during the games usually in the first and third quarters. The desire is just not there where when the tough get going, our players start slacking but still dance around and smile before all of those game they lose. Is there no wonder that very few former Piston fans watch them anymore? Will the remaining fans blame the next coach when opposing players kick our players asses? Just can't be that our players are not engaged, don't really care, or are dumb as a box of rocks meaning they are not coachable in the ways of winning. Time to fire the coach. But I am happy that SVG is finally finished. He sure didn't help when he closed down players only meetings where some of the players that wanted to win and were tired of losing wanted to change the structure of who the team leaders should be. SVG and Tom Gores insisted on Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond remaining as the Piston's team leaders. Just what free agent would want to sign with Detroit with them being the team leaders? Marcus Morris has spread the word about what it was like playing with those two stat orientated guys. SVG helped create the dysfunction and as long as the same players run things the Pistons will have the same results regardless of who the coach might be unless that coach is someone like Kerr or Stevens or maybe a guy like Kidd who doesn't take crap from any player. Kidd is blunt and to the point and does not act like a scared chicken around the protected players that Tom Gores insisted on protecting. I say SVG and Tom Gores share equally in creating team dysfunction by allowing children to become team leaders.

[deusXango]

This was a response I posted on a thread about the possibilities the Pistons landing a top three pick tonight; I received a message that stated I must wait until the Pistons approved it...well, I never!

This article was about the possibilities of the Pistons hitting tonight's lottery and making the team better but, it's ended up with a trade Drummond discussion, which went nowhere. If we're going to talk about being in the lottery, making trades, and the team getting better as a result of that "perfect storm" why not trade back in the lottery (who'll take Jon Leuer with our top 3 pick for 5-7?), draft Trae Young, a needed PG, at a reasonable spot, and begin developing a backcourt of Young and Kennard to compliment the big men we already have. "Promote" Reggie Jackson to third PG, which he'll pitch a bitch about, and wait for his agent to work out an acceptable trade. Saving $27 million on the payroll (Leuer and Jackson), obtaining a PG that really fits the talent we have, and positioned to acquire a starting SF better than Stanley Johnson isn't bad for a team that's missed the playoffs the last 2 years and doesn't have a first round draft pick right now.

Why is it that everyone who's paid to have their "thinking caps" on, from media to management, can't come up with a creative way to trade/dispense with Reggie Jackson and Jon Leuer? I'm looking at who's been let go by the Pistons and have been playing important roles in playoff teams. Is this the power of Drummond, the weakness of Gores, or the curse of Van Gundy?

One thing I'm certain of, if and wherever Drummond, Griffin, and Kennard are traded to, that/those teams will be in the playoffs...two of the three are under 25 years of age and are showing marked potential and development, and the third is a bona fide star in the NBA.

[Oracle]

I'm torn on the Boston-Cleveland series.  My mom was born in Cleveland, and I'm a LeBron fan.  Generally, the Celtics are the team I like least (excepting individuals like Bill Russell, Dennis Johnson, and Bill Walton in his twilight).  But dang, Brad Stevens shows the difference a great coach makes.  And Danny Ainge has done a phenomenal job.  That's a fun, tough, bunch of players, well-suited to slowing down the King.  I'm tempted to agree at long last with Oracle about how crummy that Avery Bradley trade was.  No Griffin without him (maybe not a bad thing), and I hold out hope for the 2nd rounder included.  Still.  Danny Ainge's getting a trade record like Jerry West.   Steer clear of him, Pistons (didn't Murph make that point earlier? YES).  If Boston makes it to the finals sans superstar, first since Detroit in '04, I won't be able to begrudge them that accomplishment.  They don't need to make it to the finals for me to struggle with the fact that Brad Stevens didn't get a single vote for coach of the year! That boggles the mind no matter how I try to figure it.

I go back and forth with Don about how important the coach is, he sometimes gets it, but loves to fall back on blaming the players. It's not that players don't deserve blame, it's that you have to look at the situation, and in most situations you'll find a coach that fails to design a system that works for the players he has, and I don't want to minimize how hard that is, it's hard or everybody would be doing it. If a system is implemented and the players don't buy in, then the players are at fault. Here, they bought in, but the system didn't fit the team, especially after the group it worked for got broken up.

Which brings us to the trade! Bradley was a better player than KCP, so from that perspective, the trade looked decent if you ignore the injury situation, but we were stuck, we had to do something. The big flaw in the plan was giving up Morris who was the only enforcer we had. Losing both KCP and Morris was the problem I had with the trade because Boston couldn't move a gimpy Bradley to anyone, and they tried hard. We should have held out as long as possible to keep Morris, but SVG, as usual just jumps as soon as possible. We lost a lot losing both in the same season, and Bradley was never going to replace all of that production.

We've got one more enormous chance of pulling out of the moor of mediocrity, at the draft lottery tomorrow.  By enormous, I mean that we have a slight chance to have something great happen.  We've got Wise's prediction on our side! I hope Wise is right!

If Cleveland stays where they are, I'm guessing they'd go for a Tristen Thompson & #8 for Andre Drummond trade.  Maybe something like that would be worth doing, maybe not.  (P.S.  I knew that TT's salary was lower than AD's, but thought they were fairly close.  In fact, there's about a 6 mil gap this coming year, so Cleveland would need to add a significant contract.)

btw, AD's got an 8% trade kicker.   And if you're off to a rough start this Monday, don't review the details of Blake's contract.  Can't quite tell what's going on with his 15% trade kicker, listed as activated in the trade to Detroit.  Does that mean he'd get another 15% kicker if traded again.   So, we may not be "stuck" with him in that we just couldn't trade him, but probably best to accept that this is going to be a long term arrangement, for better or worse.

Can we make a big trade now?   What the heck is all this delaying about?   Seems to have big drawbacks, competitively.  I respected Gores talking things through with SVG, but that dragged on too long.  The delaying is killing me, it's bad business, IMO.

Heard Bower may stay on as transitional figure beyond his present contract.  If so, not sure how that would work.  He'd be a consultant, along with Brent Berry?  Tellum's staying, but won't be Prez?  So Tellum and Bower would be staying, but we'd need to hire a Prez, GM, and coach!?  Sounds messy, and difficult to do, let alone do well, in short order.

Still, everything could turn tomorrow.  I'm afraid this slight chance is nevertheless our best chance to truly get back on track (unless Brad Stevens has a dear desire to return to the Midwest, and is able to bring Danny Ainge with him).

BTW, I feel the same way about Stanley as I did about KCP, I want him to get his full rookie development here, he deserves the chance to show us more next year. I'm not saying that if a great trade comes along that we shouldn't move him, but I wouldn't go looking to move him, and if his value isn't too high after his rookie season, I'd resign him if conditions warranted it.

Drummond: I'm of two minds about Drummond shooting 3's. His stroke looks good and he's making some, and I do believe that more success on the offensive end would energize him on the defensive end as well, if for no other reason than it's a HUGE confidence builder.

The additional advantage is that it would space the floor a lot better for us, the down side is that his rebounding would likely suffer a LOT!

The bottom line to me is what does the team need, and that won't be determined until we get our new coach, so it's a bit early to judge what he's doing other than to say that at least he's focused on improving!

[Sparma]

Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

And SVG freely diminished our draft holdings for the future.

What mismanagement.

But we've still got a one in 40 chance to turn our draft fortunes around! Maybe a few more teams slip behind us when that lottery ticket is included in the comparison. We'll have a clearer picture tomorrow.

[cool breeze]

Breaking news instead of using some of his money to hire a big man coach to teach him how to play defense, team leader Andre Drummond is instead working on his outside game. Everyone knows the Pistons don't need a rim or paint protector. Yes the Pistons need even more offense out of our franchise center. He is working on his outside jump shot as if we don't already have too much of that from other Piston players.

I see it now. The Pistons are in the thick of it to secure the 8th seed next spring. They are playing Miami who have the same record as our Pistons. Miami has the ball with 24 seconds left and the game is tied. Wade shoots with 7 seconds on the clock. AD forgets to block out Whiteside. The ball comes off the rim and Whiteside gets the tip in and the Heat take a 2 point lead. Detroit calls a timeout and inbounds the ball on the sideline. Smith sets a pick for AD who throws up a 3 pointer from the wing. Oh dam't it all, AD somehow misses everything. Now that really hurts especially because the owner decided to trade Kennard for Nelson aka Butter Ball who was sitting the bench for the Clippers before the trade deadline but the Clippers wouldn't budge so Mr. Gores had to throw in the Pistons number one pick. Mr. Gores talked to the press and was very upbeat because the team really had responded to his wise choice of hiring the first female head coach in NBA history. However, she quit after the game saying she was frustrated because center Andre Drummond was not fully "engaged" for that last game against the Heat. A new coaching search is underway but the Piston's front office are confident that the ping balls will bounce their way because they still could retain their 1st round pick rights if they secure the first or second overall pick. Everyone is really excited about next season. The home attendance figures were down from the year when they traded for Blake Griffin but who cares? The tax payers love paying for that new arena even though few people in Detroit follow the Pistons anymore.

[Sparma]

I'm torn on the Boston-Cleveland series.  My mom was born in Cleveland, and I'm a LeBron fan.  Generally, the Celtics are the team I like least (excepting individuals like Bill Russell, Dennis Johnson, and Bill Walton in his twilight).  But dang, Brad Stevens shows the difference a great coach makes.  And Danny Ainge has done a phenomenal job.  That's a fun, tough, bunch of players, well-suited to slowing down the King.  I'm tempted to agree at long last with Oracle about how crummy that Avery Bradley trade was.  No Griffin without him (maybe not a bad thing), and I hold out hope for the 2nd rounder included.  Still.  Danny Ainge's getting a trade record like Jerry West.   Steer clear of him, Pistons (didn't Murph make that point earlier?).  If Boston makes it to the finals sans superstar, first since Detroit in '04, I won't be able to begrudge them that accomplishment.  

We've got one more enormous chance of pulling out of the moor of mediocrity, at the draft lottery tomorrow.  By enormous, I mean that we have a slight chance to have something great happen.  We've got Wise's prediction on our side!

If Cleveland stays where they are, I'm guessing they'd go for a Tristen Thompson & #8 for Andre Drummond trade.  Maybe something like that would be worth doing, maybe not.  (P.S. I knew that TT's salary was lower than AD's, but thought they were fairly close. In fact, there's about a 6 mil gap this coming year, so Cleveland would need to add a significant contract.)

btw, AD's got an 8% trade kicker. And if you're off to a rough start this Monday, don't review the details of Blake's contract. Can't quite tell what's going on with his 15% trade kicker, listed as activated in the trade to Detroit. Does that mean he'd get another 15% kicker if traded again. So, we may not be "stuck" with him in that we just couldn't trade him, but probably best to accept that this is going to be a long term arrangement, for better or worse.

Can we make a big trade now?   What the heck is all this delaying about?   Seems to have big drawbacks, competitively.  I respected Gores talking things through with SVG, but that dragged on too long.  

Heard Bower may stay on as transitional figure beyond his present contract.  If so, not sure how that would work.  He'd be a consultant, along with Brent Berry?  Tellum's staying, but won't be Prez?  So Tellum and Bower would be staying, but we'd need to hire a Prez, GM, and coach!?  Sounds messy, and difficult to do, let alone do well, in short order.

Still, everything could turn tomorrow.  I'm afraid this slight chance is nevertheless our best chance to truly get back on track (unless Brad Stevens has a dear desire to return to the Midwest, and is able to bring Danny Ainge with him).

[BallinD]

Gores, Local Media, SVG

The unholy trinity of sloth, stupidity and sycophancy. The reporting in this town is feeble and negligent. So, apparently the good ship Pistons is listing and has taken on water, but no one can do anything about it or tell anyone else that fact or identify real issues and solutions. So be it. With summer league on the horizon, coaches being snatched up and development of our young players more important than ever, we get crickets.

Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, I'm so tired of hearing about "the Great Van Gundy" that I don't know what to do. He's been relieved of his head scratching front office decision making duties and trying to get a square peg to fit in a round hole practices from the bench. I don't see how SVG could've straightened out in one more year what he took 4 years to build. The narrative in the minds of many is he was somehow cheated. No one but the fans have been cheated! The greatness I keep reading about wasn't witnessed in Detroit. "He left the franchise in better shape than he found it." No sh!t. I dare say most of the posters on this site could've done the same if allowed to throw away 1st round draft picks and go over the CAP, just to inspire hope of being an 8th seed playoff team...year after year!

I know SVG coached Dwight Howard, and that turned out ugly, but did he coach Shaquille O'Neal also? What are those players opinion of SVG as a coach? It's apparent that ownership doesn't "care" for Van Gundy, and 2nd tier players seem to love him but, how is he viewed by elite level big men who were at the peak of their powers when he coached them; would positive hope be relayed to Drummond and Griffin?

It's clear that as long as SVG was affiliated with the Pistons, Reggie Jackson would be looked to, to be the straw that stirred the drink (heaven forbid RJ should come up lame and unable to perform). Half of Van Gundy's failure to drive his team into the 8th seed, as a playoff team, have been blamed on Reggie Jackson's inability to perform. SVG hasn't signed FA players as much as he signed albatross's to hamstring this franchise. We got them and before their contracts are up, they have no value. We can't trade one of them for comparable value...damn shame.

Donavan Mitchell wouldn't have been given the same chance playing under SVG that he did playing for Quin Snyder, if for no other reason Van Gundy didn't take his opportunity to draft him; the day he drafted Luke Kennard, he downplayed his defensive abilities, and throughout the season he coached him as a defensive liability who was hurting the team when on the floor, which was far from the truth. He never made Henry Ellenson better, but did he in fact make him worse, like he did Stanley Johnson? Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, let's move on and try to forget he was here.

[cool breeze]

Piston posters provide the voice for thousands of current and former loyal Piston fans. Many say they have had enough experimenting by this owner. Meanwhile reporters from the two Detroit newspapers keep throwing out names of many other potential hires for head coach and President of operations. They seem to support hiring the first female head coach. Gender equality is important. The Van Gundy experiment will be forgotten soon so maybe in 10 years the gender equality experiment first tried by the Pistons will be lost in history.

Why is it that none of our old heroes can make Tom Gores final cut? Has he already asked them and they have refused because they believe the roster is so flawed and the financial situation with bad player contracts makes change almost impossible? Who wants to jump off a cliff for a few bucks when you are already rich? Why damage your reputation a Detroit sports hero when you believe there is no way you can win with the players who have the biggest contracts on this Piston team? This should be a no brainer for Tom Gores that is that if he hasn't already asked some of the former Bad Boys to take control of operations. If Zeke had SVG's old job do any of you doubt that there would not be an immediate lightning bolt of relief among those who care about the Detroit Pistons? Ticket sales would explode. Merchandise sales would explode. Everything about the Pistons would feel better.

I have doubts that Billups could create the same excitement especially if he were hired as President or GM for the Pistons. He has zero experience. Why wouldn't Billups try coaching first? You never seem to hear Chauncey's name mentioned within the context of coaching. I wish he would try it out as an assistant coach at first. He needs to prove himself before becoming a final decision maker relating to roster decisions. Maybe I don't know his skill set in the area of management. Zeke made his mistakes and I am sure he has learned from this experience. He was a really good coach at one time. Both Zeke and Mr. Big Shot have it made with their television gig so maybe neither want to fall on the sword taking a job in any capacity with the Piston team knowing how screwed up things are at this current point in time. But I wish they were interested and have no respect for this owner if he hasn't begged them to take a job with the Pistons now. This lack of interest relating to Isiah Thomas by the local Detroit media is very upsetting. Maybe they know something we don't know. But there is no doubt that there is a sadness in the air relating to the Pistons. There are two good NBA coaches available who are mentioned as candidates for the head coaching job. The problem is that few fans have any confidence in the current players who will be coming back and doubt that those coaches can get much more out of them then SVG managed to get. Will AD be more "engaged". Can the $36 Million Dollar A Year Man play a complete season? Will Reggie Jackson shut out the 2 guards and small forwards again and play his own personal offense while faking it on defense? If you are a coach and have to worry about those things then for sure you will be out of a job soon if you are the coach. I think fans would support the Pistons if Zeke ran things because we would know that changes would be coming soon. Better players would be wearing the Piston uniform in coming seasons. Fans know that. Otherwise, few have any trust in this owner and more fans will drop off until the owner will try out his experiments in another city and get the residents there to pay for another new arena.

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