Too simple for some to understand

[deusXango]

5. Why is it we cheer for other teams to fall to a level in which we can compete hoping they get worse oppose to us simply getting better. I don't want a default playoff spot.  Who can honestly cheer not getting better in hope other teams eventually become worse.
 

That my brother, is the $64 million dollar question!

[WTF]

I can't accept just a simple 8th seed playoff appearance without advancing. Here's are my reasons

1. First let forget its been since 2009 that this team has even been relevant how can we accept anything less.

2. Secondly we have watch 3 top 10 picks come and go, what was it 7 coaching changes?

3. Had we not came off a prior with 44 wins and an expectation of exceeding that last season then perhaps one could view backing in this season as some form of accomplishment that propels the team to the next level. We took a huge step backwards from the 44 wins injuries or not.

4. My patience is real thin a PG that's doesn't seem to get it, a center that don't get, an owner that not involve and a coach that is hampered by his own ego and self interest.

5. Why is it we cheer for other teams to fall to a level in which we can compete hoping they get worse oppose to us simply getting better. I don't want a default playoff spot. Who can honestly cheer not getting better in hope other teams eventually become worse.

We can't say for certain that Indy will really be that bad, and that Charlotte isn't better, and that Miami could be a hair better or worse. Many of us was picking this team to finish 3rd or 4th in the conference last season. What we saw was no progress whatsoever but a huge decline and over the summer we gave up our only 2 defenders by trading one and letting the other walk.

[BallinD]

[quote="Oracle"]Ballin, I think you're very close to reality with this post.

I'm hoping that Kennard is a big surprise, but other than that, there's way too many "If's" associated with this team.But I'll take the playoffs no matter how you get there, it's a confidence build, and that's worth something.
[quote="BallinD"]

Yeah, Oracle, I'm on board with that. We should make the playoffs and I can accept that, if we can win a series for the next few years running, it will be something to celebrate. I don't see another ship manifesting anytime soon, or during the SVG/Gores era. We need passion, vision, and (too much) luck. I too think we need legit Piston DNA in the front office.

[Oracle]

Ballin, I think you're very close to reality with this post.

I'm hoping that Kennard is a big surprise, but other than that, there's way too many "If's" associated with this team.

Having said that, I do think we make the playoffs because there just aren't enough teams better than we are in the east. We can literally trip over our shoe laces and still grab the 8th seed, and if we pull it together, even a little bit, we could land as high as 4/5th seed.

But it's the future that's in peril if winning next season makes SVG believe that this team as presently constructed is going anywhere. The Cavs will fall, but Boston, Washington and the outside Bucks are there to make strong claims with solid rosters.

But I'll take the playoffs no matter how you get there, it's a confidence build, and that's worth something.

Yeah SVG ego and stubbornness does often gets in the way of logical thinking, but Gore owns this mistake.  

IMO Gore wants to be bigger than our Tradition and not carry our Tradition  

Gores likes Dre (for our star), and maybe, by extension, Weggie. I think he still likes SVG and still wants to believe his blather that this is 2015 2.0 and we can make the playoffs (he don't care about the next level, or more importantly, he has no roadmap to get there other than hope Dre gets better and Weggie returns to form, oh and get better shooters around the two.)

What is the answer to escape mediocrity? No man's land, purgatory where no high picks are coming and internal improvement can only get you so far and there is no top 50 NBA player on the team.  Avery Bradley, as much as I like his skills and intangibles, is not gonna move the needle enough, got no votes leaguewide for a new acquisition to improve the team.  

So where does that leave us when we still have two proven chemistry killers in Dre and Weggie and internal improvement begins and ends with them and SCHEME...TBD

Wanna be positive, so I'm on the Kennard bandwagon.  If SJ is truly a bust, we can Fugeddabout it!

[BallinD]

Yeah SVG ego and stubbornness does often gets in the way of logical thinking, but Gore owns this mistake.  

IMO Gore wants to be bigger than our Tradition and not carry our Tradition  

Gores likes Dre (for our star), and maybe, by extension, Weggie. I think he still likes SVG and still wants to believe his blather that this is 2015 2.0 and we can make the playoffs (he don't care about the next level, or more importantly, he has no roadmap to get there other than hope Dre gets better and Weggie returns to form, oh and get better shooters around the two.)

What is the answer to escape mediocrity? No man's land, purgatory where no high picks are coming and internal improvement can only get you so far and there is no top 50 NBA player on the team, maybe Drum.  Avery Bradley, as much as I like his skills and intangibles, is not gonna move the needle enough, got no votes leaguewide for a new acquisition to improve the team.  

So where does that leave us when we still have two proven chemistry killers in Dre and Weggie and internal improvement begins and ends with them and SCHEME...TBD

Wanna be positive, so I'm on the Kennard bandwagon.  If SJ is truly a bust, we can Fugeddabout it!

[WTF]

Yeah SVG ego and stubbornness does often gets in the way of logical thinking, but Gore owns this mistake.

Pistons Tradition/DNA IMO if Gore was a True Pistons Fan and not a Laker Fan first he would value the people that help forge that Tradition in the first place. We could run a list and with good reason why some former players/coach should be here in some capacity helping run this team.

We could have made good argument for Sheed, Lamb, Chauncey, Mahorn, and yes even Zeke. Any of these guys could have been considered for coach/GM or consultant/asst coach/ advisor but Gore went with SVG and I asked based on what. If Chauncey could be considered by Cleveland to be GM then why not Gore?

We could only imagine how good Drummond/JL/Boban/Ellensen/Harris might be under the direction of Big Ben/Sheed/Lamb. We was sold or trying to be sold on a coach that almost won oppose to what we knew was proven winners that came from a tradition that was always opposite of what was trending and popular in the NBA.

Gore has his own ego as well to deal with it seems he's a silent owner IMO, if this team was putting out 60 win seasons and in the ECF every season he'll be in every photo opt, pressing clipping and TV appearance available. Mr. D was at every game, visible and accessible and accountable rather the team was winning or not.

And before we go to making excuses for Gore, Davidson was also a businessman with other things on his plate outside of the state, lets not over praise what Gore does because Mr. D was equally active and given back to the community and we never felt it was just an opportunity for some good press. I'm not impress with the 2 million to Flint when in comparison you can give 26 million to a center that can't play D and make FT. In a perfect world it'll be the complete opposite and 26million would be going to Flint.

IMO Gore wants to be bigger than our Tradition and not carry our Tradition

[WTF]

But Van Gundy agrees with Stevens that there are three position groups to this extent: “To me, the two things are really point guards and centers and you can put whatever else out there you want.”
The 3-point line and its generation-long rise in importance is driving the breakdown of traditional position usage more than any single factor. Shooters space the floor and stretch defenses. In turn, it puts a premium on players who can put the ball on the floor and force defenses to rotate to cut off penetration into the lane. In a choice between two bad options, defenses almost always opt to prevent the layup and take their chances with an open 3-point shot.

This kind of explain somethings about the roster both good and bad.

[deusXango]

Put on the endangered species list through the process of metamorphosis: the traditional power forward. The ones who remain – Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol – are exceptional talents who’d play in any era. Perhaps the most talented power forward in Pistons history, Rasheed Wallace, would fall into that category, as well. In fact, he’d thrive in today’s game for his versatility at both ends of the floor.
So, what the phugue did SVG run him off for and replace him with Aaron Gray? How did Detroit fans fall so much in love with Gray that he's excepted as a viable coach for Drummond and our other big men? Was it because SVG endorsed him and nothing more?

Drummond is widely criticized for his play, but on one seems to remember that lonely All-Star appearance, when Wallace was in his ear, but his sudden decline coincided with Wallace's being replaced by Gray. What is Mr. Gray's distinction and claim to fame? You pull on this thread and this mad tapestry woven by SVG begins to unravel. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "what indicates SVG has Detroit's best interest at heart?" The stubbornness he has demonstrated suggests he only wants things his way (all glory to the great SVG), and not the way of logic. If you're a proven championship coach, you can allow your ego to make moves and decisions that fly in the face of logic (based on your past experiences), but less than that, you rely on the suggestions of others.

[WTF]

No I'm not expecting a Miracle with those three players just better Balance and Cohesiveness. These three players might not be even as talented Reggie but we all know the issue with Reggie isn't about talent. But it's not impossible that what these three players bring to the table collectively can offset losing Reggie.

I'm already high on Kennard and what I think he'll do at the pro level, Bradley in place of KCP seems almost a wash with maybe a the edge defensively going to KCP but I don't think we're that bad off without KCP. Honestly I'm more concerned my what the team loss in trading away Morris.

Bottom line is among the many issue with this team Chemistry is right there along side Reggie not fitting, Andre lack of defense, and SVG poor coaching and a lot of it has to do with how players fit.

BTW we initially didn't think our team in 2002 was all that great (no all stars, rookie, scrubs,) and they went on to win it all 2004. Somehow they gel and we all know how the story went for 7 seasons.

[Oracle]

This season Avery Bradley will change things. He will call insanity when he sees it and SVG better be ready for it. Point guards this season will not get away this that nonsense anymore. We have more players who really want to play the game the right way. I can't see SVG interfering with that. He will be forced to scrap his old Orlando offense. Andre Drummond has no business being the focal point of the half court offense. If he can't adjust and become a tough smart defender, he will be traded before the trade deadline. If RJ and IS do not keep themselves under control better and share the basketball earlier in the shot clock, both should find themselves sitting next to each other on the bench. The new Pistons will play like a real team this season.

@Don - I almost fell on the floor laughing when I saw that    Bradley is going to jump on the coach and GM? Don, in your experience have you EVER seen a guy that can't even make the all star game, come in to a new team and tell the coach, let alone the GM a damn thing?  Seriously!

Bradley, Galloway, and Kennard is the reason I think SVG will try to move Reggie. What he needs to do is get into Andre head that he has to play defense 48 minutes and a hell of a lot better than he's shown. I swear Moose was a better defender and he was lazy.

@Wise - One good player, a scrub and a rookie walk into a season and you expect a miracle? None of these guys have any business dictating anything, they're new and ALL unproven quantities, let's not get the oil above the knees just yet.

The thing you both got right was the Drummond situation. If Reggie is healthy, he may have issues, but Drummond is the key. If he can't deliver this year, at least defensively, we're better off with any decent center that can defend and shoot FT's so that he can help us in the 4th.

But pinning our hopes on a good but small SG that Boston didn't want, a known scrub(Galloway) that SVG again over paid, and nobody wanted, and an unproven rookie, strikes me as powerful wishful thinking.

We're going to do well this season, but not because we're really good, but because the east is as weak as water. That alone may be the thing that saves SVG's job because like Drummond, Gores likes him.

The best hope is that Reggie and Drummond get it together, otherwise it's a full rebuild, IMO, there isn't anything(sadly) beyond their talent potential on this team!

[WTF]

Bradley, Galloway, and Kennard is the reason I think SVG will try to move Reggie. What he needs to do is get into Andre head that he has to play defense 48 minutes and a hell of a lot better than he's shown. I swear Moose was a better defender and he was lazy.

Ish Smith isn't that far off from being like Reggie, but we don't have to play him starter minutes I think SVG can get by rotating these 4 guards. As far as SJ this year 3 and if year 3 looks like the first 2 years it time to cut our loses and move on to something else.

SVG fear should be that not only does this team needs to get back to the playoffs it need to advance to the semi or better or he will not keep his job beyond this season.

[cool breeze]

[quote="WTF"]The organization been beating the same dead horse (under 2 different ownerships) since 2009 we've been waiting on the next level.  Our last championship was 2004 and somewhere around 2008 I said we wouldn't see another 10-12 years and we're right on now with what I predicted.

SVG becomes a lame duck Coach/President after this season if he indeed make it through this season safely.  The next level should be on everyone's mind especially Reggie and Andre but they were made to feel too comfortable with their effort and play.

If SVG wants to limit the offense to 2 plays then he should at least get the personnel for it,  his 1in 4out did get him to the Finals but I don't think this Pistons roster isn't even close.
C
Dwight Howard
Marcin Gortat
Adonal Foyle

PF
Rashard Lewis
Tony Battie


SF
Hedo Türkoğlu
Mickaël Piétrus


SG
Courtney Lee
J. J. Redick

PG
Jameer Nelson
Rafer Alston


WTF all SVG did last season by using an offense designed for retards was show the fans what he really thought of his players. They still couldn't run that offense even though the players only had to learn two plays. Even with only two plays to learn I am sure the coach didn't intend for his point guards to only use one side of the court when the players actually did bother to get in the proper positions in the half court set. He couldn't have intended the point guards to drive out of control in the paint with no real plan in mind. Our point guards were possessed with the idea that they had to create everything on every possession. It was hard for any fan to watch. You see point guards driving out of control in Jr High games. It was just as difficult to watch our Piston players on offense last season as it was for me to coach 7th graders at times.

This season Avery Bradley will change things. He will call insanity when he sees it and SVG better be ready for it. Point guards this season will not get away this that nonsense anymore. We have more players who really want to play the game the right way. I can't see SVG interfering with that. He will be forced to scrap his old Orlando offense. Andre Drummond has no business being the focal point of the half court offense. If he can't adjust and become a tough smart defender, he will be traded before the trade deadline. If RJ and IS do not keep themselves under control better and share the basketball earlier in the shot clock, both should find themselves sitting next to each other on the bench. The new Pistons will play like a real team this season.

[WTF]

The organization been beating the same dead horse (under 2 different ownerships) since 2009 we've been waiting on the next level. Our last championship was 2004 and somewhere around 2008 I said we wouldn't see another 10-12 years and we're right on now with what I predicted.

SVG becomes a lame duck Coach/President after this season if he indeed make it through this season safely. The next level should be on everyone's mind especially Reggie and Andre but they were made to feel too comfortable with their effort and play.

If SVG wants to limit the offense to 2 plays then he should at least get the personnel for it, his 1in 4out did get him to the Finals but I don't think this Pistons roster isn't even close.
C
Dwight Howard
Marcin Gortat
Adonal Foyle

PF
Rashard Lewis
Tony Battie


SF
Hedo Türkoğlu
Mickaël Piétrus


SG
Courtney Lee
J. J. Redick

PG
Jameer Nelson
Rafer Alston

[Sparma]

A line of yours (concerning SVG and Reggie) struck me: "and that not one scenario say's next level."

Ideally, Reggie himself would come to his sense and, in full health, add a good dose of D as well as enough distribution to run the O optimally. That would be next level within reach for him. Funny, and telling, that in coming up with four scenarios, that wasn't one that occurred to me. But maybe, with Reggie having gone through the wringer, I should be more optimistic about his prospects for self-improvement? I'm not feeling it, but maybe...?

If you prove to be right about Reggie being traded before the season, Wise, you should put out a shingle "Have nose, will travel" because that pre-season trade seems real unlikely to me now.

I'm guessing SVG's going to want to see what he has in Reggie into the season.  A number of outcomes occur to me.  I'll mark the two that I like.

1) He flops, shows himself again to be a bad fit, and the team cuts bait in whatever form they can, whether by trading with a bad contract in return, or sticking him at the end of the bench, sulking.

**2) He returns to pretty good or even very good form, but SVG likes his cover at PG in Smith/ Galloway/ Bradley, wants to give an emerging Kennard more minutes by playing Bradley more at PG, and manages to make a trade with a decent return for Reggie (& ?), maybe getting a serviceable veteran PF who can shoot and a 2nd rounder in return.

3) Reggie returns to the best form that he's shown, and he and AD become the axis of the team again.  That scenario would get us back to the playoffs, but it comes accompanied with a low ceiling.  We'd be committed to mediocrity.

**4) Reggie returns to good form (maybe not even his best form) at the same time that SVG comes to his senses, realizes that Reggie can't carry an outstanding team, and insists on consistent effort on D and spreading the ball if Reggie wants to have close to the minutes he's accustomed to.  A productive Reggie adjusts, either becoming a valuable role player or remaining as PG, but with some crucial but manageable adjustments to his game.

Smells like a lot of reasons to cut ties with Reggie and I think SVG already knows all this and that not one scenario say's next level.   Not only does the SVG the coach needs to get to the next level some SVG the president.  What year is SVG on in terms of his own contract? This was only a 5 year deal or something like that.  The clock is ticking

Sparma I think most fans would be in line with those 4 scenarios, but it was something else that made me come to this gut feeling of mine and that is the current make up of this team, and what we've seen from SVG coaching so far.   There is no 2 things on this team that matches roster wise not even Reggie and AD nor that fits the 2 plays in SVG offensive arsenal the (P&R and Fire at Will).

Not only do I think Reggie is gone but SJ maybe included as well.  SVG knows he needs that PF especially one that is proven and that can consistently hit from outside. He's hoping he'll get that from Ellensen and JL and one of them becomes the next Turk and he doesn't have to play Harris at the 4 at all this season.  

What is it, 7 guards and a tweener on the roster right now?  SVG knows he needs to fix this and I don't think he brought in Bradley, Galloway and Kennard  just because.  He needed to flip his thinking on his backcourt

[BallinD]

Smells like a lot of reasons to cut ties with Reggie and I think SVG already knows all this and that not one scenario say's next level.   Not only does the SVG the coach needs to get to the next level some SVG the president.  What year is SVG on in terms of his own contract? This was only a 5 year deal or something like that.  The clock is ticking

2 plays in SVG offensive arsenal the (P&R and Fire at Will).  LOL and true

What is it, 7 guards and a tweener on the roster right now?  SVG knows he needs to fix this and I don't think he brought in Bradley, Galloway and Kennard  just because.  He needed to flip his thinking on his backcourt

 I hope he sees he needs to fix it, but with the league moving toward positionless players, maybe a bunch of tweeners can be good if the coach knows how to deploy them.  Sadly SVG has not proved he knows.

I love you're talking Next Level.  Everybody else talking about getting back to the playoffs, for what, to get swept again and then crow about how we played em tough?!?!but how about that Next Level.  Isn't that what we should be shooting for.  This is a proud franchise with multiple championships and this here shyte is ridiculous!!?!?

[WTF]

If you prove to be right about Reggie being traded before the season, Wise, you should put out a shingle "Have nose, will travel" because that pre-season trade seems real unlikely to me now.

I'm guessing SVG's going to want to see what he has in Reggie into the season.  A number of outcomes occur to me.  I'll mark the two that I like.

1) He flops, shows himself again to be a bad fit, and the team cuts bait in whatever form they can, whether by trading with a bad contract in return, or sticking him at the end of the bench, sulking.

**2) He returns to pretty good or even very good form, but SVG likes his cover at PG in Smith/ Galloway/ Bradley, wants to give an emerging Kennard more minutes by playing Bradley more at PG, and manages to make a trade with a decent return for Reggie (& ?), maybe getting a serviceable veteran PF who can shoot and a 2nd rounder in return.

3) Reggie returns to the best form that he's shown, and he and AD become the axis of the team again.  That scenario would get us back to the playoffs, but it comes accompanied with a low ceiling.  We'd be committed to mediocrity.

**4) Reggie returns to good form (maybe not even his best form) at the same time that SVG comes to his senses, realizes that Reggie can't carry an outstanding team, and insists on consistent effort on D and spreading the ball if Reggie wants to have close to the minutes he's accustomed to.  A productive Reggie adjusts, either becoming a valuable role player or remaining as PG, but with some crucial but manageable adjustments to his game.

Smells like a lot of reasons to cut ties with Reggie and I think SVG already knows all this and that not one scenario say's next level. Not only does the SVG the coach needs to get to the next level some SVG the president. What year is SVG on in terms of his own contract? This was only a 5 year deal or something like that. The clock is ticking

Sparma I think most fans would be in line with those 4 scenarios, but it was something else that made me come to this gut feeling of mine and that is the current make up of this team, and what we've seen from SVG coaching so far. There is no 2 things on this team that matches roster wise not even Reggie and AD nor that fits the 2 plays in SVG offensive arsenal the (P&R and Fire at Will).

Not only do I think Reggie is gone but SJ maybe included as well. SVG knows he needs that PF especially one that is proven and that can consistently hit from outside. He's hoping he'll get that from Ellensen and JL and one of them becomes the next Turk and he doesn't have to play Harris at the 4 at all this season.

What is it, 7 guards and a tweener on the roster right now? SVG knows he needs to fix this and I don't think he brought in Bradley, Galloway and Kennard just because. He needed to flip his thinking on his backcourt

[Sparma]

If you prove to be right about Reggie being traded before the season, Wise, you should put out a shingle "Have nose, will travel" because that pre-season trade seems real unlikely to me now.

I'm guessing SVG's going to want to see what he has in Reggie into the season.  A number of outcomes occur to me.  I'll mark the two that I like.

1) He flops, shows himself again to be a bad fit, and the team cuts bait in whatever form they can, whether by trading with a bad contract in return, or sticking him at the end of the bench, sulking.

**2) He returns to pretty good or even very good form, but SVG likes his cover at PG in Smith/ Galloway/ Bradley, wants to give an emerging Kennard more minutes by playing Bradley more at PG, and manages to make a trade with a decent return for Reggie (& ?), maybe getting a serviceable veteran PF who can shoot and a 2nd rounder in return.

3) Reggie returns to the best form that he's shown, and he and AD become the axis of the team again.  That scenario would get us back to the playoffs, but it comes accompanied with a low ceiling. We'd be committed to mediocrity.

**4) Reggie returns to good form (maybe not even his best form) at the same time that SVG comes to his senses, realizes that Reggie can't carry an outstanding team, and insists on consistent effort on D and spreading the ball if Reggie wants to have close to the minutes he's accustomed to.  A productive Reggie adjusts, either becoming a valuable role player or remaining as PG, but with some crucial but manageable adjustments to his game.

[BallinD]

Worst was trying to double down on 2015 -- two years ago with Weggie and Dre as cornerstones. Big Question marks both, but maybe worth one more attempt.

Renouncing KCP and not attempting to sign him and trade him to get something for him. We need assets, yet we keep letting them walk for nothing, arrogantly, in my opinion. Could we have at least gotten a pick for him...sign him to a one-year contract and trade him??

Trade Weggie? I wish, but I fear his value is so low that it won't happen. Color me happily surprised if it happens. Could we get a first round pick for him, probably not, but did we try?

[WTF]

Woke up this morning with a gut feeling or maybe it just more gas.  I think Reggie will be traded before the start of season.

[WTF]

Andre is beyond frustrating to watch not just because of the things he's unable to do or should be able to do. What bothers me is that he doesn't seem to care and the organization awarded him with 26 Mil a year contract for 5 seasons.  

So I'm looking at the NBA2K18 list, and the guy that should be taken off that list for Sheed is Ricky Mahorn.  Don't get me wrong, I loved Mahorn as a good natured enforcer and defensive specialist.   But it's tough to argue that Mahorn's Pistons career was better than Sheed's or Drummond's.

Good to know the reason Sheed isn't there is because he didn't allow them to use his image and likeness in the game, same for Barkley who's not in the game either.

[Murph]

Andre is beyond frustrating to watch not just because of the things he's unable to do or should be able to do. What bothers me is that he doesn't seem to care and the organization awarded him with 26 Mil a year contract for 5 seasons.  

So I'm looking at the NBA2K18 list, and the guy that should be taken off that list for Sheed is Ricky Mahorn. Don't get me wrong, I loved Mahorn as a good natured enforcer and defensive specialist. But it's tough to argue that Mahorn's Pistons career was better than Sheed's or Drummond's.

[deusXango]

DX, there are a lot of very articulate, very knowledgeable posters on this forum, including yourself.  I think that's why this forum has been around for as long as it has, in it's various forms.  I know that why I've been reading it for so long. Murph, I've never broken bread with any of you guys, or been to a game, or know any of your family members, but I've laughed with you all, suffered the pains of life as you've shared your experiences, learned what it means to enjoy true brotherhood, and miss the ones who drop off, for various reasons; this is a home, of sorts, for me and I draw the line when it comes to intentionally insulting one of you...that'd be mean spirited and wicked, which you all deserve better than that. I wander to other sites that talk Pistons, but.......

Wise, great point about Gores being a weak absentee owner.  He certainly approaches the Pistons like a business, and has been doing well with it.  I also agree that Illich would have been a better owner.  Too bad he got cold feet, during the middle of the Great Recession.  Detroit looks as if it's slowly coming back economically, and that's reflected in the sky rocketing value of the Pistons.  I'm sure Illich is kicking himself for not pulling the trigger.  Hopefully, Gores will become a better owner with experience. Unless I'm in the twilight zone, Mr. Illich is no longer with us and I miss the mans passion for making Detroit a winner. He invested a lot in putting Detroit back on the map; he didn't just own teams, but he did what he could to make them championship teams. The Fords can't say that owning one team! The only reason I was all for Mr. Gores getting  the Pistons, Tom Wilson was Mr. I's main man and I remember what the Pistons were like when Tom ruled the Palace...SVG is making Tom Wilson look like Mr. Davidson in retrospect. Wise, I'm willing to give Mr. Gores the benefit of the doubt, until this season sucks and SVG is still in his employ.

I keep repeating myself on this subject.  I know Drummond can be frustrating to watch, because he tries to do to much with his limited mental capacity.  He should keep it simple, and focus on rebounding, defense, shot blocking and free throws.  Nevertheless, he is an athletic freak and a rebounding machine.  If we ever had a coach who could get through to him and knew how to use him, he'd be a force in the NBA...maybe even a HOFer.  That's probably what NBA2K was looking at. Curtis Jones (remember him?) was one of the greatest basketball players I saw play, but he couldn't read or write; he was a guard who dedicated himself to the hard work it takes to become a naturally great reacting ball player, who has discovered that "something" inside that makes one worthy of being a HOFer. There are big men, past and present, who knows the value of that type of hard work, but none of them have been brought in to coach Drummond. We swept one Wallace out the door for Aaron Gray (no one seems to find anything wrong with that), and I think we can do so much better for the franchise player; bitching about his limitations and who can kick his ass is a waste of opportunity, because athletes of his caliber don't come along everyday. Yes, Drummond is frustrating to watch, but the lack of investment in his development is disgusting.

Impressive post Murph, and thank you for the kind words.

[WTF]

Andre is beyond frustrating to watch not just because of the things he's unable to do or should be able to do. What bothers me is that he doesn't seem to care and the organization awarded him with 26 Mil a year contract for 5 seasons.

It's extremely hard as an Old School Fan especially as an Old School Pistons Fan after watching the likes of Lamb, Wallace, and Lanier at that position to accept what we're getting out Andre. Signing that contract puts a Bull's eye on his back, expectation should be high and I can appreciate the half ass effort he shows. I use to blast Moose for the same things and Andre seems to be worse than Moose was in this regard.

[Murph]

DX, there are a lot of very articulate, very knowledgeable posters on this forum, including yourself. I think that's why this forum has been around for as long as it has, in it's various forms. I know that why I've been reading it for so long.

Wise, great point about Gores being a weak absentee owner. He certainly approaches the Pistons like a business, and has been doing well with it. I also agree that Illich would have been a better owner. Too bad he got cold feet, during the middle of the Great Recession. Detroit looks as if it's slowly coming back economically, and that's reflected in the sky rocketing value of the Pistons. I'm sure Illich is kicking himself for not pulling the trigger. Hopefully, Gores will become a better owner with experience.

I keep repeating myself on this subject. I know Drummond can be frustrating to watch, because he tries to do to much with his limited mental capacity. He should keep it simple, and focus on rebounding, defense, shot blocking and free throws. Nevertheless, he is an athletic freak and a rebounding machine. If we ever had a coach who could get through to him and knew how to use him, he'd be a force in the NBA...maybe even a HOFer. That's probably what NBA2K was looking at.

[WTF]

Perhaps the most head-scratching pick is current Pistons center Andre Drummond, though he's rated 85 overall and has one All-Star appearance under his belt.

know its a game but how in the hell AD get added as an all-time team. If not Sheed then why not Terry Mills, or Brian Williams? NBA 2K18 you suck

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