Even More Off Topic

[Murph]

Ebola has a kill ratio of 90%!!! WTF is on the minds of our country's leaders bringing that sh!t here, in the guise of noble doctors (carriers!) who've contacted the Ebola virus, instead of transporting whatever help, "cures," or concerned family members to the site of contamination? We don't have adequate nationwide containment facilities for our populace should this AIR BORNE virus get loose on American soil!!!

Dumb ass mutha' fuckas'!

Back to regular programming....let me tuck my head firmly in the sand.

Agreed. Not only that, WTF are we doing sending 3000 US troops to Africa to try to contain the outbreak?

The 1918 influenza pandemic, that killed 50 - 100 million people world-wide and 700,000 Americans, was spread throughout the globe by infected troops returning home from WWI.

[deusXango]

Ebola has a kill ratio of 90%!!! WTF is on the minds of our country's leaders bringing that sh!t here, in the guise of noble doctors (carriers!) who've contacted the Ebola virus, instead of transporting whatever help, "cures," or concerned family members to the site of contamination? We don't have adequate nationwide containment facilities for our populace should this AIR BORNE virus get loose on American soil!!!

Dumb ass mutha' fuckas'!

Back to regular programming....let me tuck my head firmly in the sand.

[Oracle]

I like where you're going Oracle but Defense is the most important thing about basketball and it always will be.

If you have great team defense, you rebound, you can defend the paint and limit second chance points, you have A championship quality team right before your eyes.

When it comes to scoring, I will take quality over quantity. I need guys who can get to the FT line, make FT's, hit open jump-shots, and have some type of Basketball IQ with the game on the line.

Phillip, this is a good subject for the forum, but do you think the Spurs beat Miami because of great defense?

IMO, it was a combination of good enough defense, but mostly because Miami lacked decent floor spacing because the only real threat that they had to guard was LeBron.

After our 2004 championship, the rules changed to give offense a better chance at defenses, and it's worked! Coaches like SVG became more effective because they practiced great spacing and good enough defense.

Times have changed, and the name of the game today is to get the best spacing possible, read that as best players at all positions with good shooting, and play good enough defense.

Obviously the better you play defense, the better you'll do, but great defenses can't shut down teams with the kind of talent Cleveland will put on the floor.

LeBron, Irving & Love gives you inside, outside, and everything in between, and all 3 can break down a defense, 2 of them at will!

They're not going to be a great defensive team, but likely good enough!

But this is a highly subjective conversation, so I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is another way to think about the situation.

I'd also like to hear what others think about this as well!

[Phil-Good]

I like where you're going Oracle but Defense is the most important thing about basketball and it always will be.

If you have great team defense, you rebound, you can defend the paint and limit second chance points, you have A championship quality team right before your eyes.

When it comes to scoring, I will take quality over quantity. I need guys who can get to the FT line, make FT's, hit open jump-shots, and have some type of Basketball IQ with the game on the line.

[Oracle]

Spacing implies that every member of your team HAS to be guarded, you can't cheat on anybody(this is why I pick Cleveland to win it all).

Spacing delivers room to operate! For guards it means you only have one guy to beat to get to the basket, for bigs it means easy shots when your man goes over to cover said guard and you're wide open!

I was very hard on Jennings last year and criticized him for not getting by his man and penetrating like I saw him do in the past. However, after further review, there was no room for him to operate!

Last year the middle was totally clogged because everybody and their mother knew we couldn't shoot for sh!t.

This is why I believe that Jennings is poised to break out this year, but Seb is right, a lot depends on Singler being a real threat, because we'll get almost no spacing from our 4 or 5 position!

If Meeks lives up to shooting expectations and also scoring(ability to attack the rim), then we will need an SF that can keep the lane clear for these two guards! If the SF position can't space the floor, we're going to struggle against the teams we will need to beat to get to the playoffs.

So in a "2 in 3" out offense, which I'm 90% sure SVG will start games off as, the 3 out need to produce maximum spacing for the offense to work.

To SVG's credit, he's brought in a lot of shooters to hopefully find the one or two that can produce most consistently. So while Singler may hold an overall game advantage over some other players, the problem will be that SVG doesn't need an overall player, he needs a shooter at that position.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, but the competition at SF should be worth the price of a ticket or two!

[Oracle]

Lions win on the road in NY against the Jets! It wasn't as pretty as it should have been, but ONE thing that truly stands out to me is how few mistakes this team is making compared to the last several years!

They are simply refusing to hurt themselves with dumb plays on a regular basis, demonstrated by an almost perfect 90 yard drive executed by Stafford with assists from Golden Tate on a couple of critical 3rd downs and one by Bush... IMPRESSIVE(without CJ too)!

Tigers sow up the division title! I'm happy, but these guys aren't recommended if you have a weak heart . But the years that they entered the playoffs looking like world beaters, they failed to make it all the way. Could this time be different, when I think they're an easy out for better teams?

DX, I think Seb saw your lineup and gagged, which is understandable! However, you do an excellent job of explaining after the lineup, and even if I would like a different one at SG & G, your lineup is absolutely a solid possible! I was just in total shock to not see Augustin anywhere there, since he's likely the best "System" guard on the team!

[deusXango]

Something has gone badly wrong if by the All-Star break our rotation doesn't look something like this (and we're playing .500+ ball):

PG- Jennings/Dinwiddie
SG- Meeks/KCP
SF- Singler/Datome
PF- Smith/Monroe
C-  Drummond/Monroe

Fact: Drummond can only play center and Smith can only play PF successfully; neither should be forced to play off the bench or out of position. The duo of Monroe/Smith or Monroe/Drummond, when played together, is a daunting combo and will take the NBA by surprise under the steady hand of SVG. Monroe has the opportunity to become the most valued 6th man in the league.

Fact: The money back-court of Jennings and Meeks has to develop the chemistry Pistons starting back-courts are known for; should they play to expected levels of their individual skill sets, we'll have guards worthy of contention, and the "under studies" of KCP and Dinwiddie are potentially better than Stuckey and Afflalo when they were drafted.

Fact: The dice is being rolled with the SF dilemma; barring a big trade to upgrade that position, we could be rolling with any number of combos including: Singler, Butler, Datome, Mitchell, Martin, and Jerebko. A couple of players really need to separate themselves from the flock and this is where SVG must be honest and fair in his decision making as our coach, when he selects his starter and backup.

What's to be done with the extra body's is unimportant and not a major issue, but what is important is how the rotation is set, and as Oracle has pointed out, defense is going to be critical until team chemistry is established.

DX, this is not a NBA caliber, starting five. F@ckin' Jodie Meeks is not a starter and everybody and their grandma knows that Singler is an 8th/9th-man. And, I thought that it was the consensus of this Board that Moose is not a PF. Heck, I thought that it was you, DX, that wrote that Moose was not a PF.

Sebastian, you didn't read the post in it's entirety or you're expecting things to fall apart because of your dislike for Meeks and Singler; that's unfair and you're wrong on many points. We've got to play the best we have and employ the best fitting lineups.

Your F@ckin' Jodie Meeks is a better starter than Kyle Singler at SG and I would hope that you saw the wisdom of playing KCP with Dinwiddie only from this point on; Dinwiddie isn't ready to play now and KCP will only get better as time goes on...Jennings and Meeks are the highest paid guards we have and offer us the best chance of establishing control of a game. Augustin is actually my personal pick to start the season at PG, but it ain't going to happen; too many fans are dreaming of a miraculous turn around in Jennings game under SVG.

No Moose is not a PF, but he's not going to sit on his ass because of it, nor should he be starting; for 5-10 minutes a night he can backup Smith, but the majority of his PT will be as Drummonds backup! When Smith is out of the lineup, who'd you like to see paired with Drummond?

I realize SF is a sore spot on this team, as things stand now, so a 8th or 9th man starting is not entirely out of the question; the only Green that could be an improvement over starting Singler is Gerald Green, not Jeff Green!

[Sebastian]

Something has gone badly wrong if by the All-Star break our rotation doesn't look something like this (and we're playing .500+ ball):

PG- Jennings/Dinwiddie
SG- Meeks/KCP
SF- Singler/Datome
PF- Smith/Monroe
C-  Drummond/Monroe

Fact: Drummond can only play center and Smith can only play PF successfully; neither should be forced to play off the bench or out of position. The duo of Monroe/Smith or Monroe/Drummond, when played together, is a daunting combo and will take the NBA by surprise under the steady hand of SVG. Monroe has the opportunity to become the most valued 6th man in the league.

Fact: The money back-court of Jennings and Meeks has to develop the chemistry Pistons starting back-courts are known for; should they play to expected levels of their individual skill sets, we'll have guards worthy of contention, and the "under studies" of KCP and Dinwiddie are potentially better than Stuckey and Afflalo when they were drafted.

Fact: The dice is being rolled with the SF dilemma; barring a big trade to upgrade that position, we could be rolling with any number of combos including: Singler, Butler, Datome, Mitchell, Martin, and Jerebko. A couple of players really need to separate themselves from the flock and this is where SVG must be honest and fair in his decision making as our coach, when he selects his starter and backup.

What's to be done with the extra body's is unimportant and not a major issue, but what is important is how the rotation is set, and as Oracle has pointed out, defense is going to be critical until team chemistry is established.

DX, this is not a NBA caliber, starting five. F@ckin' Jodie Meeks is not a starter and everybody and their grandma knows that Singler is an 8th/9th-man. And, I thought that it was the consensus of this Board that Moose is not a PF. Heck, I thought that it was you, DX, that wrote that Moose was not a PF.

[deusXango]

Something has gone badly wrong if by the All-Star break our rotation doesn't look something like this (and we're playing .500+ ball):

PG- Jennings/Dinwiddie
SG- Meeks/KCP
SF- Singler/Datome
PF- Smith/Monroe
C-  Drummond/Monroe

Fact: Drummond can only play center and Smith can only play PF successfully; neither should be forced to play off the bench or out of position. The duo of Monroe/Smith or Monroe/Drummond, when played together, is a daunting combo and will take the NBA by surprise under the steady hand of SVG. Monroe has the opportunity to become the most valued 6th man in the league.

Fact: The money back-court of Jennings and Meeks has to develop the chemistry Pistons starting back-courts are known for; should they play to expected levels of their individual skill sets, we'll have guards worthy of contention, and the "under studies" of KCP and Dinwiddie are potentially better than Stuckey and Afflalo when they were drafted.

Fact: The dice is being rolled with the SF dilemma; barring a big trade to upgrade that position, we could be rolling with any number of combos including: Singler, Butler, Datome, Mitchell, Martin, and Jerebko. A couple of players really need to separate themselves from the flock and this is where SVG must be honest and fair in his decision making as our coach, when he selects his starter and backup.

What's to be done with the extra body's is unimportant and not a major issue, but what is important is how the rotation is set, and as Oracle has pointed out, defense is going to be critical until team chemistry is established.

[Phil-Good]

Good stuff Oracle. I'm right there with you all the way 100%%

Could not agree with you anymore on every one of them....


I have 2 hope. I want to see Toney Mitchell have A breakout season. I also want to see Gee Gee have A breakout season. I believe both of these guys have talent and can really help Detroit if given the opportunity.

[deusXango]

Oracle, X2!

I love your "hopes," although I'm surprised to hear you're given to hope.

[Sparma]

in the postseason, but my goodness this as been a frustrating regular season for the Tigers. I write as they're being clobbered by the Twins again, on a night when a win would be really, really helpful. That said, I can't believe they've made it to the WS twice in recent years. There was a time when I doubted I've live to see that again. So is frustration a symptom of being spoiled by their success or is it a legitimate, measuring against what the team should be able to accomplish given their considerable star power?

[Oracle]

[Oracle]

Here's what I think:
1. Jennings is going to be a big surprise and play great for SVG
2. Josh Smith will be back to himself defensively
3. Monroe will be very productive in whatever role SVG has for him

Here's what I hope:
1. Meeks lives up to his contract
2. KCP grows into a go to player
3. Singler defends the SF position while becoming a more consistent deep threat
4. Drummond improves his FT percentage and gets at least one decent post move

Here's what I pray:
1. Dinwiddie becomes part of the rotation after midseason
2. The defense radically improves
3. Team chemistry gels by midseason

The defense is CRITICAL because we know that the chemistry won't be there for awhile, so they're going to need to defend well until they can get it going!

[Oracle]

Vincent Goodwill @vgoodwill
Follow
You'll now be known as "that guy" RT @jadande: RT @mcten: LeBron: "I’ve never played w/ a PG like Kyrie Irving""

[Phil-Good]

[quote="deusXango"]

I'm on the Telephone taking care of some bills or something. I stop by the forum to see what everybody was talking about while I was on hold.

I see this picture and the operator says hello, all at the same time. I could not stop laughing.



I had to call the lady back i was laughing so hard!

[deusXango]

IMO, Rondo is either close to done or will never reach the heights he once did!

Here are my concerns with Rondo

1. He looked better than he is due to the talent he had on his team and the system being run
2. He totally believes his press clippings and is a diva worst than Monroe
3. He may have become injury prone
4. He's just plain snake bit
5. Even if he's on his game, he'll likely only be effective on a team closer to contending than we are

There is a time for some things, and the timing for us and Rondo is off.

I agree with all of that. I must be crazy, looking to Boston for help; I wish they'd send us a bunch of first round picks for Monroe, but he doesn't know if he wants to sh!t or get off the pot, so Boston basically has no value to what we're trying to do.

[Oracle]

IMO, Rondo is either close to done or will never reach the heights he once did!

Here are my concerns with Rondo

1. He looked better than he is due to the talent he had on his team and the system being run
2. He totally believes his press clippings and is a diva worst than Monroe
3. He may have become injury prone
4. He's just plain snake bit
5. Even if he's on his game, he'll likely only be effective on a team closer to contending than we are

There is a time for some things, and the timing for us and Rondo is off.

[cool breeze]

[quote="Murph"]

Big Walter will haunt you from the grave Murph. Dukes was a smart hi IQ man on and off the court during his playing days. I know that he was working on his law degree while he was playing for Detroit. It is extremely difficult to compare more current players and players in Duke's era. My Father was friends with George Yardley and in fact he taught me a few things about shooting when I was a little kid. How would Yardley compare to current back court players? Yardley could make crazy shots on the run from beyond the 3 point line before the 3 point line existed consistently. But could he be as effective playing with current studs? Different times and different rules need to be considered. There were only a few teams in the league and they beat the hell out of each other for very little money. You risked your life driving into the lane. I love those old players and know one thing for sure. Walter Dukes was a good man and am happy some people think highly about him.

I never said Walter Dukes wasn't a good man.  I'm sure he was a great guy.  That's not the point.

The point is, Dukes played in an era when slow, skinny 7 footers could just show up and drop the ball in the basket.  I mean the guy played in an era when the average center was probably 6'8 or 6'9 and 220 lbs.   That's why a guy with an abundance of talent, like The Big Dipper, could score 100 points in a game, and average 50 points a season.

But except for his height, Walter Dukes had nothing in common with Wilt the Stilt.  Dukes averaged 10 points a game on 37% shooting throughout his career, on a terrible, terrible team.  In what universe does that make him the 5th best center in Detroit Pistons history?

If they squared off today, Greg Monroe would destroy Dukes.


And as far as George Yardley is concerned, at 6'5, 190 lbs, what small forward in the NBA could Yardley possibly guard?  Heck, even a SF like Singler would make Yardley look ridiculous.  Do you think Yardley could even get off one two handed set shot against Singler, without it getting blocked?  I don't.


My point is, the NBA has evolved so much over the last 50 or 60 years, that it's not even like they're playing the same game.  Today's NBA players as so big and so fast and so strong and so highly skilled that they'd make the stars of old look like high school players.

There is no doubt that you are correct Murph and that is why it is silly to try to compare the old with the new. As far as Yardley is concerned I believe if he were a young guy living in the current area with his mind, athletic ability, and incredible shooting skills, he would be an All Star. No player in the old area had the opportunity to play 80 plus games while traveling throughout the country playing against the best competition as an 8th grader. Read Labron James book, "Shooting Stars" which was eye opening for me. I played in only 12 games as an 8th grader and was limited to playing against only local competition. I would have given anything to have that opportunity young men and women have today. As a high school player in my era, we all played football, ran track and played on the baseball team. Labron explains that he had to sacrifice football which he was really good at to focus exclusively on basketball. As a high school coach, I was involved in creating some of the summer camps that brought young players together where players had more opportunity to get expert help and play all day long everyday against really good players. As a player, my buddies had to bribe the coach to open the gym over Christmas vacation. You had to play outside in the snow and we did. That has progressed to the current factory system described by Labron James. Meanwhile Yardley and his warriors who played in the NBA had to learn how to play all on their own in their backyard most of the time. Yardley was born as a special basketball player much like Larry Bird who had a special gift. With all the extra games, weight work and outstanding coaching players have today, there are still only a few great players that really stand out in every generation. Yardley would have adapted to today's game well. He had enough size, ball handling ability and court vision to be a remarkable player if he had the opportunity to grow up in the current system. This is a very interesting topic. The rules of the game were brutal for the old guys who played with and against yardley. What a lifestyle those guys lead. They had real jobs and beat up on each other after traveling long hours on buses. My Dad passed down a lot of Yardley's game film and when I watch some of the shots he made with players pushing him around in the back court, I still can't believe my eyes.

[cool breeze]

[quote="Murph"]

Big Walter will haunt you from the grave Murph. Dukes was a smart hi IQ man on and off the court during his playing days. I know that he was working on his law degree while he was playing for Detroit. It is extremely difficult to compare more current players and players in Duke's era. My Father was friends with George Yardley and in fact he taught me a few things about shooting when I was a little kid. How would Yardley compare to current back court players? Yardley could make crazy shots on the run from beyond the 3 point line before the 3 point line existed consistently. But could he be as effective playing with current studs? Different times and different rules need to be considered. There were only a few teams in the league and they beat the hell out of each other for very little money. You risked your life driving into the lane. I love those old players and know one thing for sure. Walter Dukes was a good man and am happy some people think highly about him.

I never said Walter Dukes wasn't a good man.  I'm sure he was a great guy.  That's not the point.

The point is, Dukes played in an era when slow, skinny 7 footers could just show up and drop the ball in the basket.  I mean the guy played in an era when the average center was probably 6'8 or 6'9 and 220 lbs.   That's why a guy with an abundance of talent, like The Big Dipper, could score 100 points in a game, and average 50 points a season.

But except for his height, Walter Dukes had nothing in common with Wilt the Stilt.  Dukes averaged 10 points a game on 37% shooting throughout his career, on a terrible, terrible team.  In what universe does that make him the 5th best center in Detroit Pistons history?

If they squared off today, Greg Monroe would destroy Dukes.


And as far as George Yardley is concerned, at 6'5, 190 lbs, what small forward in the NBA could Yardley possibly guard?  Heck, even a SF like Singler would make Yardley look ridiculous.  Do you think Yardley could even get off one two handed set shot against Singler, without it getting blocked?  I don't.


My point is, the NBA has evolved so much over the last 50 or 60 years, that it's not even like they're playing the same game.  Today's NBA players as so big and so fast and so strong and so highly skilled that they'd make the stars of old look like high school players.

There is no doubt that you are correct Murph and that is why it is silly to try to compare the old with the new. As far as Yardley is concerned I believe if he were a young guy living in the current area with his mind, athletic ability, and incredible shooting skills, he would be an All Star. No player in the old area had the opportunity to play 80 plus games while traveling throughout the country playing against the best competition as an 8th grader. Read Labron James book, "Shooting Stars" which was eye opening for me. I played in only 12 games as an 8th grader and was limited to playing against only local competition. I would have given anything to have that opportunity young men and women have today. As a high school player in my era, we all played football, ran track and played on the baseball team. Labron explains that he had to sacrifice football which he was really good at to focus exclusively on basketball. As a high school coach, I was involved in creating some of the summer camps that brought young players together where players had more opportunity to get expert help and play all day long everyday against really good players. As a player, my buddies had to bribe the coach to open the gym over Christmas vacation. You had to play outside in the snow and we did. That has progressed to the current factory system described by Labron James. Meanwhile Yardley and his warriors who played in the NBA had to learn how to play all on their own in their backyard most of the time. Yardley was born as a special basketball player much like Larry Bird who had a special gift. With all the extra games, weight work and outstanding coaching players have today, there are still only a few great players that really stand out in every generation. Yardley would have adapted to today's game well. He had enough size, ball handling ability and court vision to be a remarkable player if he had the opportunity to grow up in the current system. This is a very interesting topic. The rules of the game were brutal for the old guys who played with and against yardley. What a lifestyle those guys lead. They had real jobs and beat up on each other after traveling long hours on buses. My Dad passed down a lot of Yardley's game film and when I watch some of the shots he made with players pushing him around in the back court, I still can't believe my eyes.

[Murph]

Don, it's hard to say about Monroe.

Superstars like Kobe, LeBron and others can put out maximum effort even on losing teams. Lesser players get down and can't deal as well when losing.

It's hard to figure out if Monroe was sick of the losing, sick of the many coaches, sick of the mutinous players, and just plain sick of the mismanagement of the whole damn thing!

Monroe's been through a hell of a lot in a short time here. It's not an excuse, but it may have had an effect on him, and now all he has is himself to think about.

Obviously he could have been a bit more graceful about the way he handles himself, and at his salary.

Oracle...I think it's really very simple. The 5th best center in Detroit Pistons history doesn't want to sit the bench behind the 4th best center in Pistons history.

It's very ironic. After all those years, Joe Dumars finally drafted not one, but two outstanding diamonds in the rough, in Monroe and Drummond. In fact, they were probably the two best draft picks of Dumars' career. It's just our luck that they both happen to play the same position.

[Murph]

Big Walter will haunt you from the grave Murph. Dukes was a smart hi IQ man on and off the court during his playing days. I know that he was working on his law degree while he was playing for Detroit. It is extremely difficult to compare more current players and players in Duke's era. My Father was friends with George Yardley and in fact he taught me a few things about shooting when I was a little kid. How would Yardley compare to current back court players? Yardley could make crazy shots on the run from beyond the 3 point line before the 3 point line existed consistently. But could he be as effective playing with current studs? Different times and different rules need to be considered. There were only a few teams in the league and they beat the hell out of each other for very little money. You risked your life driving into the lane. I love those old players and know one thing for sure. Walter Dukes was a good man and am happy some people think highly about him.

I never said Walter Dukes wasn't a good man. I'm sure he was a great guy. That's not the point.

The point is, Dukes played in an era when slow, skinny 7 footers could just show up and drop the ball in the basket. I mean the guy played in an era when the average center was probably 6'8 or 6'9 and 220 lbs. That's why a guy with an abundance of talent, like The Big Dipper, could score 100 points in a game, and average 50 points a season.

But except for his height, Walter Dukes had nothing in common with Wilt the Stilt. Dukes averaged 10 points a game on 37% shooting throughout his career, on a terrible, terrible team. In what universe does that make him the 5th best center in Detroit Pistons history?

If they squared off today, Greg Monroe would destroy Dukes.


And as far as George Yardley is concerned, at 6'5, 190 lbs, what small forward in the NBA could Yardley possibly guard? Heck, even a SF like Singler would make Yardley look ridiculous. Do you think Yardley could even get off one two handed set shot against Singler, without it getting blocked? I don't.


My point is, the NBA has evolved so much over the last 50 or 60 years, that it's not even like they're playing the same game. Today's NBA players as so big and so fast and so strong and so highly skilled that they'd make the stars of old look like high school players.

[deusXango]

Damn Sebastian, is Jeff Green a relative of yours and you're jockeying for free tickets, or what? You were doing fine until you threw Jeff Green's name out there still again. If we trade Monroe to Boston for Rondo, Olynyk is the only other player that makes sense, in SVG's scheme of things.

[Sebastian]

Pistons Pals: Call me crazy (it want be the first or last time for some of you), but this is the time to go get Rondo, while his value is at its lowest. Move Moose (he will not reject a trade to one of the two most storied franchises in the League and where he will get the minutes to restore his value), B. Jennings (the Celtics will need a proven scorer at the PG position, as Smart and Paul Pressey's son are not the answers), and Tony Mitchell (who may or not be an NBA player and currently wears #9) for Rondo and Jeff Green.

WE get Rondo in about 6 weeks, two weeks after the season starts and Jeff Green a true, starting SF.

Folks, this trade would help to balance out OUR roster and make US a more competitive and put some asses in the Palace.

I forget who it was that wrote WE need another leader, like Chaunce and Zeke, were leaders. Rondo could be the next Pistons leader.

SVG make something happen.

[cool breeze]

[quote="Oracle"]Don, it's hard to say about Monroe.

Superstars like Kobe, LeBron and others can put out maximum effort even on losing teams. Lesser players get down and can't deal as well when losing.

It's hard to figure out if Monroe was sick of the losing, sick of the many coaches, sick of the mutinous players, and just plain sick of the mismanagement of the whole damn thing!

Monroe's been through a hell of a lot in a short time here. It's not an excuse, but it may have had an effect on him, and now all he has is himself to think about.

Obviously he could have been a bit more graceful about the way he handles himself, and at his salary, I'm sure he could afford a 16 pack of Depends , as a matter of fact, I hope fans carry signs with Depends on them

Well said Oracle. There is no excuse for not giving maximum effort but I believe from a coaching perspective big men in general are the most difficult to motivate or predict what the hell they might do on the court from game to game. There are many exceptions but I believe just by looking closely at Monroe's face at the start of games, it seems that he has a tough time getting his body going. There was one game where Monroe looked excited in the warm ups and played his ass off every minute of the game. That was the game played in New Orleans in front of his family and friends. Monroe was an outstanding player that night and I thought that he had breakthrough. Not the case though because then it seemed that Monroe played with a hangover for the next 10 ball games.

There is a good article by Vincent Goodwill relating to SVG's request that the players get back to the practice facility early and try to digest some of the concepts he wants to use. But will Greg Monroe finally listen to this group of coaches or do it his way as he has done with all the many different head coaches and assistant coaches who have attempted to help him on the defensive end. Monroe must admit that he is a horrible defender at best and grasp the new team defense concepts and be open to coaches who want to help him. There has been no Piston coach who has endorsed having Monroe out at the 3 point line chasing guards trying to steal the ball while leaving the paint wide open. How many times have we watched Greg out of position outside the paint looking back at the action offering no help for the other big man he is playing with. Monroe has always been puzzled when trying to help defend the pick and roll. Can he mentally grasp what he has to do on defense if he plays power forward? GMs around the league have identified Greg's liabilities so his agent must have set him straight as to the changes he will have to make to get the next pot of gold. What motivates Greg Monroe? Will he invest in his teammates or be dreaming of wearing a different uniform? With the DUI and lack of interest by other teams this summer, Monroe must feel that his back is against the wall. Will he come out fighting to get the best out of himself on the court when it counts? does he want to be remembered as one of the players who turned things around in a positive way for the Pistons or will he be content to just blend and get though the season? He must show that he really cares about the team and his teammates before Piston fans will care one way or the other if he stays or if he goes. We will soon see how Greg wants to be remembered. Will it be the goat or the hero? Will Greg be at home in bed mentally preparing for the next game and thinking about what he might do better in the next game? Or will Greg decide to drive around at 3 AM looking for trouble? Sometimes it is tough for a young rich man to do the right thing all of the time. But that is what you have to do if you want to be loved by Piston fans.

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