Don

[Oracle]

I agree that Josh & Jennings have been chemistry killers at one point or another, but they can't explain what's going on with this team, that's a stretch, IMO.

1. The offense sucks, with or without those guys - Likely Cause: Incomplete team due to injuries

2. Our 3-point shooting is worse than last year, we're at the bottom of the league again

3. What's with Drummond's foul a minute problems?

4. KCP looks like sh!t

5. Singler is looking even worse!

6. The coaching has been far below average

Notice that only one issue I've named has a good reason for why it's happening, the rest is on the person tasked to get the job done!

However, we really do need to take all of this with a big grain of salt! NOBODY, and I repeat NOBODY is who you think they are right now!

The contenders and pretenders are generally exposed for who they are around 20 games.

The most important thing for this team is to shake out who stays & who goes by then, while honing the offense and defense so that the system is in place and working!

Right now these guys are playing tight, and IMO, it's because SVG was just like Drummond, he talked a good game, but he hasn't delivered. He started out placing all of the blame on the players, dissing them in the press and just being a hard ass in general! Running ridiculously long practices was another dumb ass mistake. You can't force conditioning all at once, it's a process that occurs over time.

Now that it is painfully obvious that his stuff smells, and everybody can see it, he's changing his tune to we're all in this together, which should have been the message all along!

They don't need to win as much as they need to lighten up and play naturally within the system... the rest will come!!!

[deusXango]

When you're playing 30+ minutes and come in with less than 5 rebounds, they're not rebounds, but loose balls picked up.

When you're playing 30+ minutes and find the opposing player outscores you by 30 points, the coach is sleeping in the best seat in the house.

When you're playing 30+ minutes and don't have any steals, blocked shots and take less than 10 shots, you're not "glue,", but a "sticky wicket."

There's not a growing army of Singler haters, but there is a growing army of media, fans, and casual observers who feel that the Detroit Pistons need a SF as soon as possible; some have called our SF play "horrible." When you can't shoot or defend, what should you be called? Yesterday we were world champions, so don't talk about who was great during a 29 win season....yesterday. Yesterday was over last night! Martin can't get back fast enough, for my money, and I'm glad to read that SVG realizes Datome is on the roster and maybe, just maybe, can have a value.

Murph pointed out the dreadful possibilities of stumbling out the gate early in the season and they're valid; what's the excuse of starting 0-3, 0-5, or 0-8 if your aim is to contend for a playoff spot? If a team is going to post a record like that then they should be looking at every player they have at a position of need. Answer me this: why were Jennings minutes cut with only one backup PG to step in, but Singlers minutes were extended with four backups waiting and 3 of the 4 got DNP-CD? I also totally agree with Murph on just last years f@ck up by Dumars that cost us Knight, Middleton, and what turned out to be a chance to add Noah Vonleh to our team as crippling moves; we don't have to go way back, just look at the last year! By the same token, in the next year SVG can build a competing team with astute decision making and maneuvering; we got to cut out that fatalistic thinking that leads us to believe we can't do this or that, because of......bullsh!t!!! We can do whatever is practical; trading Singler for Melo is not practical, nor is trading Singler for Jeff Green practical (a wash, but not practical). SVG and Bower can't afford another FA signing period like the one they had, nor can they stand pat and not make trades.

[Oracle]

I mean that's really the long term problem.  After the "Going to Work" crew aged, Dumars never let the team bottom out.  Dumars kept trying to fix the problems by papering over the cracks, with acquisitions  like Iverson, Villanueva, Gordon, Jennings and Smith.  This has had the opposite effect by prolonging the misery.  We're never good enough to make the playoffs, and never bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

In hindsight, Joe should have let the team bottom out, in the hopes of landing a super star with a top pick.

Maybe SVG should go that route by blowing up the team now.  However, the problem with that is that it would require other teams to give us draft picks or prospects for our over-paid or disgruntled vets.  That's not likely to happen.

Murph, I don't think any of these acquisitions other than AI were horrible, they were just poorly timed and badly coached acquisitions.   Joe should have let the team bottom out he should tried to model SA, and even Dallas situation and remained relevant. His sh!tty drafting and coach hiring likely doomed us more than anything else.    

We would have been better off if Joe picked either way and did the right thing, but it wasn't in the cards.

If he had blown up the team, how much confidence to you really have that the right moves would have been made to put players around a young stud? It's not guaranteed that everything would work out well.

Obviously the SA route is safer, that's why Joe tried it, but if you don't have a Pop to coach and get the right players, it's a failure!

We had the biggest thing required for the SA model to work, we still ran Larry Brown's system with modifications added by Flip! That's the system Curry inherited and the only reason he did as well as he did, but Joe blew that up too!

[Murph]

I mean that's really the long term problem.  After the "Going to Work" crew aged, Dumars never let the team bottom out.  Dumars kept trying to fix the problems by papering over the cracks, with acquisitions  like Iverson, Villanueva, Gordon, Jennings and Smith.  This has had the opposite effect by prolonging the misery.  We're never good enough to make the playoffs, and never bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

In hindsight, Joe should have let the team bottom out, in the hopes of landing a super star with a top pick.

Maybe SVG should go that route by blowing up the team now.  However, the problem with that is that it would require other teams to give us draft picks or prospects for our over-paid or disgruntled vets.  That's not likely to happen.

Murph, I don't think any of these acquisitions other than AI were horrible, they were just poorly timed and badly coached acquisitions.   Joe should have let the team bottom out he should tried to model SA, and even Dallas situation and remained relevant. His sh!tty drafting and coach hiring likely doomed us more than anything else.    

Agreed.  Joe could have gone either way.  He could have kept Billups and the starting unit of the Championship team intact, and tried to add good draft choices, such as Afflalo and Amir, and inexpensive FA signings to supplement or even eventually replace the starters (like SA or Dallas).

Or he could have traded away all the starters of the Championship team for draft picks and prospects, blown up the team, bottomed out, and eventually acquired a top 3 pick (like OKC, Washington, or Milwaukee).

But Joe ended up playing it half way, and he managed to ruin the chemistry of the championship team, while never rebuilding with top picks.

And now we're in never ending purgatory.

[WTF]

I mean that's really the long term problem.  After the "Going to Work" crew aged, Dumars never let the team bottom out.  Dumars kept trying to fix the problems by papering over the cracks, with acquisitions  like Iverson, Villanueva, Gordon, Jennings and Smith.  This has had the opposite effect by prolonging the misery.  We're never good enough to make the playoffs, and never bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

In hindsight, Joe should have let the team bottom out, in the hopes of landing a super star with a top pick.

Maybe SVG should go that route by blowing up the team now.  However, the problem with that is that it would require other teams to give us draft picks or prospects for our over-paid or disgruntled vets.  That's not likely to happen.

Murph, I don't think any of these acquisitions other than AI were horrible, they were just poorly timed and badly coached acquisitions. Joe should have let the team bottom out he should tried to model SA, and even Dallas situation and remained relevant. His sh!tty drafting and coach hiring likely doomed us more than anything else.

[cool breeze]

This team lacks any kind of team chemistry. At the end of last season the team had good chemistry and was fun to watch. Siva was the point guard. Jennings, Smith and Bynum didn't play. Singler, Jerebco, KCP, Monroe and Drummond played well together and it was cool to see that they were all on the same page helping each other on defense and making the extra pass on offense.

Remember two summers ago when Joe Dumars was beaming during the summer league games and predicted great things for the Pistons. Mo Cheeks was going to be the cool coach who would be a calming influence. Before Mo Cheeks arrived, the press, Dumars and most of all the players were upset with the way Frank handled the team.

This slump cannot be the players fault. Management has Smith and Jennings under contract for while paying them big money so it is important to tip toe around the issue that nobody can refute. Since Jennings and Smith arrived, this team has had the worst team chemistry that I can ever recall. Both players appear to be gifted in certain ways as basketball players but I can't help but feel that as long as they play for the Pistons, Detroit will not improve. It is easy to blame others especially Singler, Butler, Drummond, KCP. The problem with Smith and Jennings is that they are not good leaders but are getting paid to lead. We need two real basketball stars who hate to lose basketball games. In Smith's case, if Detroit had two really good players, then Smith would really look good because he could accept a different role than he has with this group of players. Smith is not a leader and should not be the first option on offense. Smith should concentrate and use most of his energy on the defensive end and get his shots on the low block. Jennings, on the other hand could never accept a lesser role. To be effective he has to touch the basketball a lot which means his teammates never get involved in the offense. And Jennings will never be able to defend the way a player needs to defend in the playoffs.

How did Siva run the Pistons offense so effectively at the end of last season? Why didn't any of the coaches watch those games and try to figure that out? And how did the Pistons play so well without Smith and Jennings playing at all? The team shared the basketball. They made the extra pass. They moved hard without the ball and set screens for each other. And those players played defense the right way with the guards helping out on the defensive boards. Jerebco, Singler, KCP, Monroe and Siva all played extremely well together. That was a team. Now we have a group of high school AAU players. Good luck with that coach Van Gundy.

[WTF]

Here is another opportunity where the 3 (Josh, Greg and Andre) should be in the line up together. The only other suggestion would be to start JJ at SF with Josh and Andre but having Kyle attempting to guard Carmelo would be insane.

My suggestion on rotation for this matchup with the Knicks would be starting all three big men and bring Joel off the bench and using JJ to rest Josh but in no way do I give Kyle PT other than an attempt to go completely big by letting him back up KCP at SG and even then I might elect to choose Butler in that scenario or Kyle in Dinwiddie becomes an option over Kyle.

I like Kyle but like Andre he needs to jump leap years to become an effective defender and is likely the worst defender on the team right now. Initially I was all over the trade rumor Batum for Monroe and it seem like a dream come true. "However" Andre has become a dream killer with his horrid defense and foul trouble but it's clear the makeup of the current roster needs some quick adjustments ( via trade). If the team is to continue with the notion that Andre is our future and there is no change in Monroe situation of likely leaving, and this persistence of starting Kyle at SF thing we need to address the concern IMO of adding a bona-fide PF and center to backup Josh and Andre. Kwame and Charlie played better defense than Andre has.

[Murph]

I mean that's really the long term problem. After the "Going to Work" crew aged, Dumars never let the team bottom out. Dumars kept trying to fix the problems by papering over the cracks, with acquisitions like Iverson, Villanueva, Gordon, Jennings and Smith. This has had the opposite effect by prolonging the misery. We're never good enough to make the playoffs, and never bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

In hindsight, Joe should have let the team bottom out, in the hopes of landing a super star with a top pick.

Maybe SVG should go that route by blowing up the team now. However, the problem with that is that it would require other teams to give us draft picks or prospects for our over-paid or disgruntled vets. That's not likely to happen.

[Murph]

Wow.  After just 3 games, our Pistons are on life support.  We've seen seasons begin like this before, and they don't end well.  Remember when Lil Larry managed to lose his first 8 games of the season two years ago?  We never recovered from that, and ended the season with our usual 29 wins.

Furthermore, there are a number of teams in the East that have much better talent, coaching and chemistry than we have...Miami, Toronto, Chicago, Washington, Cleveland, Atlanta and Charlotte...heck, even NY, Boston, Indy and Brooklyn are playing much, much better than we are.

So the early results are in, and our chances of making the playoffs look slim.  It looks as if all that good coaching and team chemistry that the Pistons exhibited in the pre-season were fools gold.  If we miss the playoffs again this year, it will represent the longest dry streak in Detroit Pistons history...much longer than the teal years, and tied with the Kent Benson era.

Furthermore, we have serious long term problems at many positions that will need to be addressed in the next couple of years....our best offensive center is walking out the door, we have a serious PG controversy brewing, we have a starting SF who can't score and can't defend, and our starting PF is aging fast and will need to be replaced in a couple of years.  And the ghost of Joe Dumars will linger on for years with the losses of Afflalo, Amir, Walker, Burke, Knight, Middleton and Vonleh.   These are dark days for Piston fans.

The good news, I guess, is that we'll probably get a lottery pick in the up-coming 2015 draft that we'll need to spend on a prime time SF...such as Stanley Johnson or Kevon Looney.

[WTF]

Just thinking about the Lions and I think they can win 5 of their next 8 games and finish season 11-5. I think they should win coming off the bye week against Miami and win the remainder of their 3 home games. That's 4 wins so it remains which 1 road game they can pull off and my guess is the New England game it would be nice if they could knock off Arizona.

Those last 2 games on the road Chicago and Green Bay could net the a win but it'll depend on what the teams are play for at season end. Hopefully they and Green Bay are playing for the Division in that last game.

[WTF]

C'mon guys... let's not send a message to Dre that he's less than important to our future... last thing we need is for his agent to start planting seeds.
Instead let's do what LB did with Ben... admit that this team ain't going anywhere unless our raw Center at least is respectable with the ball in his hands... for now accept the team's fate, feed him the ball until he gets it... then we can talk about an inside out game.... and F### Monroe he's definitely seeking other pastures.

It's a tough balance, but it's WAY out of line right now!

To make the statements that Dre made, speaks of a little delusional thinking and totally no understanding of what leadership is.

But I hear you, these guys are young with fragile egos, and with a new team in town, that could prove costly.

However, it's not the offensive end that concerns me, he's doing fine there, IMO. It's on defense that he's next to useless, and that's a real cause for concern. I've seen big men eventually get FT's and offense together, I've seen less of them go from poor defenders to great ones.

I'm not saying it's impossible or even hard, just that I've never noticed it in the wild!

I also agree with you about Monroe, he's a mercenary, a hired gun, not a part of the loyal opposition!

I just want the kid to STFU and play and stop talking this leader role sh!t until he starts carrying this team. Lord knows I'm not a fan of Moose but right now we'll be better served at starting him in place of Andre until he gets his sh!t together. But yes that bubble needs to be burst because I the long run letting him yep is old practice that we've seen we far too many of former players on this team.

SVG should already understand that pacifying players only handicap them sooner or later.

[Oracle]

C'mon guys... let's not send a message to Dre that he's less than important to our future... last thing we need is for his agent to start planting seeds.
Instead let's do what LB did with Ben... admit that this team ain't going anywhere unless our raw Center at least is respectable with the ball in his hands... for now accept the team's fate, feed him the ball until he gets it... then we can talk about an inside out game.... and F### Monroe he's definitely seeking other pastures.

It's a tough balance, but it's WAY out of line right now!

To make the statements that Dre made, speaks of a little delusional thinking and totally no understanding of what leadership is.

But I hear you, these guys are young with fragile egos, and with a new team in town, that could prove costly.

However, it's not the offensive end that concerns me, he's doing fine there, IMO. It's on defense that he's next to useless, and that's a real cause for concern. I've seen big men eventually get FT's and offense together, I've seen less of them go from poor defenders to great ones.

I'm not saying it's impossible or even hard, just that I've never noticed it in the wild!

I also agree with you about Monroe, he's a mercenary, a hired gun, not a part of the loyal opposition!

[Oracle]

He's working harder on getting his guys in a defensive posture, which is good. Here are some tidbits.

Among them: cleaning up defensive breakdowns, getting better ball movement and setting sturdier screens. Van Gundy counted 20 points Brooklyn scored simply because of game-plan mistakes in the defense. Get more stops, he says, and your shooters are going to play with more ease and confidence, not feeling like every possession is do or die because of an alarming yield on the other end.

And hopefully, credit to Wise, he'll back off on that silly short lineup!

Van Gundy said Martin is feeling better and Meeks can now begin some more aggressive conditioning work. Even Gigi Datome is in the mix, he said. And he blamed himself for not getting Jonas Jerebko--a 3-point threat from the power forward position--in Saturday'’s game while playing Josh Smith 44 minutes.


"“I didn’'t find minutes for him and I think that was a mistake,"” he said. "“As I told these guys today, we are truly in this together. They'’ve got to get better at some things, but it'’s not like I’m laying it all on them. There are some things where I'’ve got to get better and one of them is, at some point here in the near future, I'’ve got to do a better job with our rotation and who we’re going to play.”"

Full Article - Van Gundy knows Pistons shooters will revert to form, so focus goes to D, ball movement, screens

[merc]

C'mon guys... let's not send a message to Dre that he's less than important to our future... last thing we need is for his agent to start planting seeds.
Instead let's do what LB did with Ben... admit that this team ain't going anywhere unless our raw Center at least is respectable with the ball in his hands... for now accept the team's fate, feed him the ball until he gets it... then we can talk about an inside out game.... and F### Monroe he's definitely seeking other pastures.

[deusXango]

Dre's got a lot of RAW talent, and he wants to learn, but he needs to do it from the bench, he's just not polished enough to start!

Oracle, I'm glad you're sticking to your guns on bringing Drummond off the bench; if I said it, it would be considered sacrilege.

Oracle, it's obvious that SVG won't play Mitchell or Datome, no matter what, so why not trade them for whatever draft picks we can get now? I said bring Miller on board (not as a savior, but as a prospect because I believe he's potentially much better than Singler!), but keep Singler and Butler!!! Miller reminds me of Amir Johnson, a player discounted and given up on too soon. F.Y.I. I'm in total agreement with you that, before he was hurt, Martin had won the SF start hands down.

All that's in favor of the Big 3 starting last night are right, IMHO, because Josh knows how to play Joe Johnson, has the size, and an axe to grind from their days in Atlanta; I don't think J-Smoove would have shut Johnson down, but if he held him to his average it would have made a difference. Drummond vs. Plumlee would have looked different also if Monroe was going against Garnett. With the Big 3 starting, SVG would/could/should have given J.J. and Anthony some PT off the bench and hidden that head-scratching time Singler spent on the floor...32 minutes, damn!

Wise, that's three of us in favor of bringing Dre's ass off the bench; the starting unit wouldn't lose any of it's potency (maybe Moose would be a better fit) and the bench would be much stronger with Drummond there. If we could get last years 13/13 from Drummond, he's in the 6th man of the year conversation. If this worked and the record took an upward jump, Monroe may decide to stick around, after all Joe is who jerked the team around, not SVG.

[WTF]

SVG needs to burst that bubble and start Josh and Moose and brings Drummond's ass off the bench not sure if Moose would play defense any worse than Drummond has.  It's clear Andre likes getting by on his athletic ability and not thinking he's still doing a lot of the same dumb rookie mistake and he shouldn't be not at this point (3rd year).

He does he has tremendous talent but it doesn't matter if you're unable to stay in games or poorly defending the basket. SVG should strongly consider more zone just to keep this dummy out of foul trouble and around the basket so he can defend it.   Plumblee was schooling his ass last night and Andre is bigger, stronger and more athletic but I couldn't tell.  

Moose is gone next season and we are going to be ass out if we're left with only Andre next season and he can't get this thing right.  Andre new name is Can't Get Right

I was actually cheering for Joel Anthony to get in the game yesterday who could very well be a better defender than both Moose and Andre.

[Oracle]

5 points, 3 rebounds, 32 minutes of play.....Michael Curry didn't stay on the floor near that long and came home with those stats! Could J.J. have done better? I think so. Could Mitchell have done better? Probably. Hell, could Datome have done better if given half that time?! I'd really like to see. Butler got half that time and did do as well. After that Herculean effort he put on the other night to keep us in the game, why only 15 minutes?

After watching that game last night, I don't think it's out of the question to look at a "scrub" on the scrap heap, especially if he's 6' 11" and an aggressive scorer....at least he'd have given Joe Johnson someone to defend instead of coasting on "D" and kicking our ass on offense. Yeah, I'm saying Quincy Miller again; Mitchell and Datome didn't play a minute so dumping them for Miller shouldn't matter and SVG would have had the option of playing Jerebko (6' 10") or Miller (6' 11") as backups against Johnson. If he wouldn't have thrown either of them in the game last night, we could all have seen it's more than rust on the sideline. Too many of SVG's peers have had a couple of years layoff and came back to the head chair and performed better than what he's doing! I ain't calling for his head, I'm just sayin'.

DX, I must be seriously missing something!

Again you're suggesting that we dump two players that actually could be used in a trade and replace them with a player that everybody and their mama knows can't be traded?

Then I guess we go through the process of him learning the system, catching up with everyone, getting chemistry, and praying that he produces? Have you lost your effing mind

We really do need a SF, but not a crap shoot! We have the assets, and some cash, and a smarter move would be to look at the bigger picture.

Could a package of Singler, Mitchell & Datome get us a better SF? But a lot more is on the table.

Can we move Jennings, Mitchell & Datome for a SF and change?

Can we move Josh Smith, Mitchell & Datome for a bigtime SF and a backup big or PG?

It's time to think out of the box(or waiver wire in your case), and see what we can do to improve!

That doesn't mean we should pull the trigger, but they damn well better be looking at possible moves to execute ASAP.

Sure SVG is screwing up, but he's not screwing up so badly that a bit more talent wouldn't have covered up until things settled out!

But that's the big rub... things haven't settled out, and that's why I said we shouldn't pull the trigger, just explore so that when we need to pull the trigger we can do it quickly! It's all a question of what do we know right now!

I know that SF is and will be a weakness for us! I don't think it should keep us from the playoffs, but we'll struggle for 8th seed with what we have now. IMO, Singler is fine as the backup, but you want to be a bit closer on a nightly basis.

Wild Card: It's possible that we have the starting SF here already! Cartier Martin showed that he has a very good combination of offense and defense. His offense won't blow you away, but he's very active defensively and is capable of getting into passing lanes for steals! I did pick him as the starter as he beat Singler & Butler by a long shot for the job IMO! ISO Joe would have has a harder time against Martin because Martin has the speed and hops that neither Singler or Butler have, and the size that KCP doesn't have.

Finally, this is why you need to win the games you're supposed to win! We clearly were a better team than either the Nuggets or the Wolves, but last night scared me because it was like they were toying with us like a cat with a mouse. The mouse has no chance of escape... the mouse knows it... the cat knows it! The only question left is... "when is dinner served"... that's scary!

[Oracle]

Andre and his mouth on how he was ready to step up and lead this team.  In fact every time you looked up he was running his ugly mug and offering his opinion on everything under the freaking sun.

Sooner or later the local media is going to turn on him if he doesn't get his sh!t in order (FT's, defense and foul trouble) right now you're not a leader you're an detriment to the team because you can't defend the basket and stay out of foul trouble.

Drummonds mouth and head is bigger than his game is and it's partly SVG fault for not nipping a lot of that sh!t in the bud this summer and pumping his head full of air when he crown him the franchise and future of this team.

Hey Drummond leader's lead by example not their mouths you big dummy!

Sell no Wine before it's time!


Wise, I totally agree! We keep doing this and it always leads to players artificially trying to become leaders before their time!

I complained about the same thing when Drummond came back all puffed from NOT playing with Team USA! Since when does a garbage time player come back talking that kind of smack???

UniBrow just goes out and produces, Andre's mouth precedes his game, and his game can't back up his mess!

Dre's got a lot of RAW talent, and he wants to learn, but he needs to do it from the bench, he's just not polished enough to start!

[Sebastian]

5 points, 3 rebounds, 32 minutes of play.....Michael Curry didn't stay on the floor near that long and came home with those stats! Could J.J. have done better? I think so. Could Mitchell have done better? Probably. Hell, could Datome have done better if given half that time?! I'd really like to see. Butler got half that time and did do as well. After that Herculean effort he put on the other night to keep us in the game, why only 15 minutes?

After watching that game last night, I don't think it's out of the question to look at a "scrub" on the scrap heap, especially if he's 6' 11" and an aggressive scorer....at least he'd have given Joe Johnson someone to defend instead of coasting on "D" and kicking our ass on offense. Yeah, I'm saying Quincy Miller again; Mitchell and Datome didn't play a minute so dumping them for Miller shouldn't matter and SVG would have had the option of playing Jerebko (6' 10") or Miller (6' 11") as backups against Johnson. If he wouldn't have thrown either of them in the game last night, we could all have seen it's more than rust on the sideline. Too many of SVG's peers have had a couple of years layoff and came back to the head chair and performed better than what he's doing! I ain't calling for his head, I'm just sayin'.

Yeah, DX, Singler is really lighting it up. Next up: Melo.

[deusXango]

5 points, 3 rebounds, 32 minutes of play.....Michael Curry didn't stay on the floor near that long and came home with those stats! Could J.J. have done better? I think so. Could Mitchell have done better? Probably. Hell, could Datome have done better if given half that time?! I'd really like to see. Butler got half that time and did do as well. After that Herculean effort he put on the other night to keep us in the game, why only 15 minutes?

After watching that game last night, I don't think it's out of the question to look at a "scrub" on the scrap heap, especially if he's 6' 11" and an aggressive scorer....at least he'd have given Joe Johnson someone to defend instead of coasting on "D" and kicking our ass on offense. Yeah, I'm saying Quincy Miller again; Mitchell and Datome didn't play a minute so dumping them for Miller shouldn't matter and SVG would have had the option of playing Jerebko (6' 10") or Miller (6' 11") as backups against Johnson. If he wouldn't have thrown either of them in the game last night, we could all have seen it's more than rust on the sideline. Too many of SVG's peers have had a couple of years layoff and came back to the head chair and performed better than what he's doing! I ain't calling for his head, I'm just sayin'.

[Sebastian]

Tonight showed in full effect what you guys were worried about!

Hollins is as good or better than SVG, and he proved it tonight! He zeroed on our 3 greatest weaknesses and he totally exploited them! While all 3 worked, two of them were less effective than the 3rd!

Here's what he did,

1. Foul Drummond early and often: While Andre did make some FT's, on the whole, every missed FT cost us because the Nets kept converting 2 or 3 points to the one we got! Monroe is the only big that can make FT's Josh is the only player that reach Drummond levels on a regular basis.

2. Pack the paint and dare them to shoot: Smart move from Hollins! This move made it difficult for our guards to operate and near impossible for our bigs to get off clean shots! Since we couldn't shoot, they had no reason to spread out their defense, so while we were playing in mud, the final big move by Hollins(#3) sealed the deal.

3. Attack Singler and force us to double: Anybody they put on Singler immediately became the player to go to! Singler was abused regularly, and to stop the bleeding, we had to double. When we doubled, our already defensively challenged team was even more defenseless! Hollings basically spread us out and had his team attack the holes it created. Any time we got close, they tightened up the defense on us and attacked on offense.

We could live with weakness at the SF, but we can't cover up a gaping hole, and Singler alone totally threw the defense into a tailspin. Having said that, it's not Singler's fault that our bigs in particular, and the team in general is defending so poorly!

And it's not Singler's fault that SVG has been getting out coached 3 games in a row, 2 by ex-Pistons(Hollins & Flip), and another by a near rookie coach(Shaw).

I've always said that Singler is only as good as the team around him, but tonight, a better SF would have at least given us a chance to win this one.

IMO, SVG should have used the big 3 in this game(Wise mentioned this), and it was total stupidity not to! The reason is obvious, the big 3 beat the Nets last year like a drum, we owned them!!!

If you can't, as a coach, learn from history, you're going to have a tough road to hoe!

Again, it's early, and as I said SVG hasn't patrolled the sidelines in years, so he's rusty as hell, and for some reason, this team is playing tight, and as Wise said, they look tired! It's on SVG to figure this out, and good coaches do... we're waiting!

Oracle is right Coach Stan has been out of the game for only a short while, but damn he has got to realize that he has to put better line-ups on the floor. Like, Wise, wrote the Nets is the opponent that Josh needs to move to the SF position. WE all saw what can happen when Singler is asked to check, Joe Johnson.

And, it was just plain stupid for SVG to have B. Jennings, D.J. Augustine, and KCP all on the floor together against, D. Will, Jarrett Jack, and Iso Joe. Dumb!

[Sebastian]

This is what I saw.

1. Drummonds. 3 games. 18 fouls to give. He uses 16 of them in 3 games so far. Drummonds can't stay in the game to have A impact. He gets stupid after stupid foul. Kid has talent but he can't help the Pistons on the bench.

2. Small Forward. We have nobody to man this position. Scoring wise and defense wise. This position will be A season long problem.

3. Shooting. The Pistons have the low post game but no shooting to back it up.

4. Jo Johnson. Give this guy credit. Each team is allowed to carry 15 guys on the roster. That's A total of 30 NBA players. Jo Johnson was the best NBA player out there last night. He was so good, he was the second best player out there as well. Give respect to the guy. He was amazing. He took the win away from Detroit like taking candy from A baby! And he did it in the 4th quarter, when it counted.

Yeah, Phillip, "Iso Joe" wore OUR asses out, last night!

[WTF]

SVG only went 8 deep into his rotation tonight and though I'm a fan of short rotations 8 seem a little to skimpy. Would any of you have considered JJ and Mitchell taking a run at SF last night? Because not only would I have strongly considered putting the three big fellas in together I also thought in this case both JJ or Mitchell might have slowed Joe Johnson some.

We also seen Dinwiddie get a little burn in the opening game what happen that he hasn't played in the following 2 games? SVG reminded me of checks last night.

I also want to add this tidbit for Seb Your boy Stuckey defends Joe Johnson pretty well last season though shorter Joe couldn't easily post up on Stuckey

Singler looked a hot mess defensively but that won't be the case every game. Remember Prince use to get his ass whipped on a regular by some of the elite SF in the games as well. The thing was we would at least get some offense and a hand full of rebounds out of Prince. Singler could of at least put up 14pts an 7 rebs to counter Joe. If there was any player that should have used all 6 of their fouls in was Singler and if he keeps this up I'll join the outcryfor change along with DX and Seb

[Phil-Good]

Me personally, I enjoyed the effort from the Pistons. It's A long season and trades happen all the time. I keep the faith.

KCP will be A beast one day. Not today but one day. I like the kids effort and hard work. His scoring ability will come around eventually. If Afflalo can become A 20pt scorer, so can KCP.

B.Jennings. He played better but there is no future for him in Detroit. The kid has talent but, he just not that guy the Pistons need.

Drummonds. I believe but i don't see. I need to see Drummonds on the floor in crunch time. I don't care about bad FT shooting. Big boys are not great FT shooters. But i like the fact that Detroit will be in the bonus every night.


The Pistons have some cap money left over and some expiring contracts. Let's see how this things plays out.

[WTF]

Andre and his mouth on how he was ready to step up and lead this team. In fact every time you looked up he was running his ugly mug and offering his opinion on everything under the freaking sun.

Sooner or later the local media is going to turn on him if he doesn't get his sh!t in order (FT's, defense and foul trouble) right now you're not a leader you're an detriment to the team because you can't defend the basket and stay out of foul trouble.

Drummonds mouth and head is bigger than his game is and it's partly SVG fault for not nipping a lot of that sh!t in the bud this summer and pumping his head full of air when he crown him the franchise and future of this team.

Hey Drummond leader's lead by example not their mouths you big dummy!

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