Et tu Brutus?

[deusXango]

Oracle, after I read that ridiculous article by Dan Favale, on The Bleacher Report, about the failure of Monroe and Drummond to successfully co-exist, I went into an absolute tizzy; I can't believe that any astute Pistons fan doesn't realize that time is on our side, and when I talk about time, I'm not talking about half of a season!! Then I read your explanation about Bynum being the most productive option (short or long term, I don't agree with that), I had to speak my mind in behalf of the suffering fans who may see some things my way.

Sebastian has long held out that Singler is no more than a 8-10th man on a contending team; that being a fact, Bynum should never leave the bench, unless it's to congratulate his team mates leaving the court....the operative word is contending! Any deployment of less than our best players is not trying to contend, and that's what Gores knows. I agree with you in that Singler is playing too many minutes and Jorts is not playing enough. The talk about Monroe having reached his ceiling is nothing compared to the very low ceiling J.J. reached a long time ago; Jonas is a likable guy, but he's not a fit in our rotation, particularly with the infusion of talent this past summer (Datome & Harrellson). We as fans spend too much time debating who should play, and not enough honest reflection is spent on who should be getting the DNP-CD; Bynum and Jerebko should join CV, and Billups as the veterans who support their team mates in the locker room, on the bench, and in practices, but not create in-house tensions by demanding playing time, like some middle of the road skilled, jr high school kids! Everybody can't and shouldn't play.

I'm not a fan of Mo Cheeks now, because of his lack of direction for the team and it shows in their helter-skelter style of play; the players are taking an unfair hit by being called dumb, but that's really not the case, and they can play the game....does anyone on here remember a local player named Curtis Jones? Dumb as a box of rocks, but a basketball wizard who played with pure genius. We don't have a coach who brings out the best of our players, but stifles them. He's unorganized and lackadaisical, to the point some are missing Lil' Larry (who's been fired twice inside of a year), and publicly stating it. He not only sits with the fans, but he watches the games like a fan, failing to make adjustments, call proper timeouts, or running a logical rotation; we're over half-way through the season and he's still searching/experimenting, like he's a total stranger to the team....he may very well be, now that I think on it.

Dumars chose to go after J-Smoove because we had two promising centers, but no PF and Smith was the best on the market; Smith simply replaces Maxiell, and is capable of doing a bang up job, if coached the right way. Monroe and Drummond haven't played for a complete season yet, and we're ready to rid ourselves of Monroe because he's coming up for a contract, and no reason more valid than that. What's wrong with having a talented trio like those guys, and who said that they must be played together? Whatever happened to bringing Drummond along slow; can't he come off the bench in deference to the veteran Monroe and still get his development minutes? Any team that started two centers and a PF would look like a clown show on the defensive & offensive end, no matter how talented they were....but there are no other teams in the NBA that has two centers like Monroe and Drummond. There are, however, some coaches that would recognize how fortunate they were and figure out how to sell all involved on using the time necessary for Drummond to grow, Smith's contract to expire, and keeping Monroe around until he either developed into a decent PF or Drummond was ready to start at center. The fortune we have now is the revelation of Josh Harrellson! Drummond has someone to compliment him in the paint on the 2nd unit, and just like that, we're set at center and PF with above average starters and backups!

The perimeter play is most vexing and we've pretended that Cheeks has done the best that can be done....bullsh!t. He's lost his way since everyone was healthy, and he had to make some decisions on his SG and SF; it was evident early that Smith wasn't going to play at his expected high level as our SF, but Cheeks coached down to the "Smith haters" expectations, and with Singler the incumbent starting SG, he should have gotten the call until KCP was ready to start....until then KCP should have been the backup. It's not a matter of pitting Bynum against Datome, because Gigi doesn't play PG, Stuckey does and he's bigger, stronger, and a better defender than Bynum!!! Stuckey should be Jennings backup. Who knew that solving the PG and SG positions would be so easy? Joe invested in a Euro shooter that ain't no joke and he's yet to get adequate PT to become acclimated to the NBA...coaches decision of course. I'm not touting Datome to be a starter because I feel a special chemistry could develop with him being a part of the 2nd unit....Our Big 3 starts and after about 5 minutes, Drummond goes to the bench with Monroe and Smith sliding over to accommodate Datome coming in to play SF. A 2nd unit of Drummond, Jorts, Datome, Singler, and Stuckey would complete a very formidable 9 man rotation, giving the Pistons a longer, stronger, more defensive team than we're fielding now. We wouldn't beat the Heat, but we wouldn't be at the bottom of the heap either.

[Oracle]

Cheeks plays Bynum because Bynum will produce more than any other option... in the short term!

Ditto with Datome, the only way to get the value out of him is to get him in at SF and let him build confidence while learning the players in the league!

Where as Singler gets, IMO, too much PT, Harrelson gets too little!

And if you put me on a lie detector, I would have to say that if you're going to play a short guard, my pick would be Siva because you'll get a more polished PG in the long run!

But the reality is that we don't live in the long run, so while I don't like it, I don't ding Cheeks too much on these issues!

Cheeks problems go way beyond just playing Will Bynum or Datome!

[deusXango]

If Joe Dumars is demanding his coaches to play certain players, when will he demand Mo Cheeks to stop playing Will Bynum, and give Luigi Datome more PT? This player was a Euro league MVP for heavens sake, and to ignore that distinction is foolish; I don't see how he can hurt our chances for success more than Bynum, and if Cheeks can't figure out how to make that simple adjustment, he's not fit to coach this team!!! Bynum is like a fire extinguisher, you only use it under extreme circumstances.

At this stage of the season, where it's obvious we need help on the perimeter (SG or SF), and we really can't trade for one of quality, why not explore the options already available to us? We have Singler, an experienced SG, and Datome, a natural SF who can shoot, if given the PT necessary to build confidence, and they're upgrades in our 2nd unit. It's time to stop pointing out players who don't play defense, because as a team we don't play defense, but what about intelligence? Why not give shooting and intelligence a chance? We've gone the ball hogging, dumb ass route and it hasn't worked, so let's do something different.

Why does Cheeks insist on playing Bynum, and why hasn't Joe demanded some "face saving" adjustments in the rotation? Smith, Jennings, KCP, and Datome must look good, and playing in a sensible rotation is the only way they can look their best; all these players were questionable acquisitions, from our draft pick to the FA signings.

It's 3:30 in the morning, so bear with me; with the jacked up home record we have, and the contributions we've gotten from Chauncey so far, wouldn't it have been a tremendous marketing move, and an upgrade in talent, to have signed Royce White's crazy ass to play home games, and the nearby cities that he can reach by bus? Cleveland, Chicago, Philly, and Indy, plus the Palace home games alone would have gotten us more games played by White
than we're going to get from Billups for his entire contract. How many coaches and mentors does Jennings need anyway?

[Oracle]

"DX and Merc, I swear Mo' has Bobby Jones flashbacks every time he see's Singler. If Mo' could see that Singler is a 9th/10th-man, Singler would not be placed in so many situations where he is clearly exposed.

And, DX you are right that Fennis is a fantastic writer. Word!" - Seb

First, we're just plain lucky to be able to call Fennis one of our own! Fennnis, we appreciate you!

Seb, the problem isn't Singler it's having a team where it makes more sense to play him than somebody else!

But beyond that, it's Cheeks! He sticks to lineups and minutes to a fault! He needs to play players based on matchups, how they're doing, and back to back considerations!

Take Josh Smith for instance! Once we tried Josh posting up his man to start every game, just because it worked a couple of times doesn't mean it's something you need to do every game... the NBA doesn't work that way, and Cheeks should know that!

Cheeks is doing a nice job with Jennings, but will it be enough?

[Sebastian]

Singler gets bonehead player of the game... at some point in time you have to understand it's not acceptable to leave Ray open in space... it wouold have been a lot worse if he was shooting per usual.

Singler was concentrating on getting his 2 pts. and 3 reb. in the 33 minutes he played; this is not meant to be a Singler bash, but it was clearly on Cheeks to leave him in, to publicly suck, on a night when he clearly didn't have it. Coaching decisions can go both ways and Cheeks decisions seem to go the wrong way, more often than not.  

DX and Merc, I swear Mo' has Bobby Jones flashbacks every time he see's Singler. If Mo' could see that Singler is a 9th/10th-man, Singler would not be placed in so many situations where he is clearly exposed.

And, DX you are right that Fennis is a fantastic writer. Word!

[deusXango]

Clearly the most talented and creative writer on this forum or anyplace else; I wish those talents could be blasted nationally on the Pistons behalf (since we're given to slapstick).

[deusXango]

Singler gets bonehead player of the game... at some point in time you have to understand it's not acceptable to leave Ray open in space... it wouold have been a lot worse if he was shooting per usual.

Singler was concentrating on getting his 2 pts. and 3 reb. in the 33 minutes he played; this is not meant to be a Singler bash, but it was clearly on Cheeks to leave him in, to publicly suck, on a night when he clearly didn't have it. Coaching decisions can go both ways and Cheeks decisions seem to go the wrong way, more often than not.

[Fennis Dembo]

Recipe for Disaster Stew by Chef Maurice

In a large bowl of concrete, mix in twenty some sloppy turnovers.

Throw in two handfuls of ill advised low percentage shots.

Chop and dice a defense to shreds and strain through a sieve.

Cook on low heat for 36 minutes. Then turn up the heat to high for 12 minutes.

Presto! You have the perfect antidote for victory. A hot steamy mess of "Oh, No, Not Another Freakin' Defeat!"

[deusXango]

I'm convinced that if we are to have a chance at making the playoffs and more there needs to be a total commitment to reviving SHOWTIME.  A large percentage of our roster seems to be at their absolute best when in the open court.   Jennings has few peers in getting the ball to the right guy at the right time, and man do we have guys with good hands that finish at the rim.  

In transition (both ways) Josh Smith looks like the max player we envisioned.   Dominating the glass the way we do is all the more reason to go for it.  I know it isn't a style we're used to seeing around these parts but desperate times call for desperate measures.   I very much want to see us push the ball after TO's, misses, makes, and side outs.

At this point what do we have to lose.

Maybe Mo Cheeks is the only loss necessary. Lemon, that is a very astute observation, and one that could revolutionize the way b-ball is played in the east. We loose Cheeks as coach, who's going to run the show? How about Mike D'Antoni? We've got a roster he'd love to coach.

[lemonpen]

I'm convinced that if we are to have a chance at making the playoffs and more there needs to be a total commitment to reviving SHOWTIME. A large percentage of our roster seems to be at their absolute best when in the open court. Jennings has few peers in getting the ball to the right guy at the right time, and man do we have guys with good hands that finish at the rim.

In transition (both ways) Josh Smith looks like the max player we envisioned. Dominating the glass the way we do is all the more reason to go for it. I know it isn't a style we're used to seeing around these parts but desperate times call for desperate measures. I very much want to see us push the ball after TO's, misses, makes, and side outs.

At this point what do we have to lose.

[Sebastian]

The most laughable reason for deployment of a player in the NBA is playing Will Bynum in your rotation, simply because he's from the same city as the coach; a defenseless, ball hogging, undersized, shoot-first PG, with absolutely no leadership skills. What can possibly be accomplished in the long or short run by molly coddling a player that hurts the team more than he helps it? He's an aggravation on the court....for the fans who cheer for the Pistons!

Stones, I found it interesting in your trade scenarios, in one you had Datome listed as a backup SF and in the other you listed him as a backup PF, but in both you listed Singler as either a starter or backup at SF; why is Datome looked at as this "hybrid" forward and he's smaller than Singler? Why can't Gigi get any consideration for our starting SF? I know you're just echoing what a lot of fans feel, and Cheeks has been acting on, but why can't we fans see what Datome can or can not do given extended PT for a few games? In my mind, I don't believe given 33 min. of playing time, he'd only contribute 2 pts., 3 reb., 1 ast., and 2 steals, which was the line on Singler last night; there has been too many of those nights for Singler for him to be a lock on our only true SF....didn't he come to prominence in Detroit by playing SG last year anyway?

Ladies and gentlemen I've got Mo Cheeks in my crosshairs and ready to squeeze one off; why in the hell can't Stuckey come in to back up Jennings at PG, and Singler backup KCP at SG, leaving a floor spreader like Datome backup Smith at SF? That would mean replacing a 5' 11" player in the rotation with a 6' 8" player...I sound delusional, right? I stated earlier in the year that I felt Datome and Singler would be a handful coming off the bench together, and that was before Stuckey distinguished himself as an elite level 6th man....if you can imagine those three playing alongside Jorts and Drummond, to positive ends, you can also see how ridiculous it is to keep running Bynum out there night after night, and when Jennings doesn't have it, there is a viable option in Stuckey at PG (yeah Sebastian, his time has come). In my mind also, there's no better backup on this team for KCP than Singler, because Billups is not the answer....unless we're serious about tanking the season, and if that's the case, keep playing Bynum, allow Chauncey to partake of the elixir of 9 Tana leaves, and Datome to rot on the bench, while he's being mentored by CV.

DX, I have to agree with your suggestion to have Stuckey see more minutes at the PG position, especially in the 4th quarters of games, when Brandon Jennings is least effective from a cerebral position. And, correct me if I am wrong, hasn't Stuckey played the majority of career at the PG position? Damn!

I, also, would roll with your suggestion to maybe have Singler and Linguine on the floor, together, which would help to compliment Stuckey's dribble-drive game when playing the Point in the 4th. Then you are right, again, the bigs could be a combination of Josh/Moose, Moose/Dre, or Dre/Josh.

Mo' Cheeks is a non-coaching ass!

About a week or so, ago, I posted the following trade proposal to get the reaction of my fellow, Pistons Pals:

- Moose, Jennings, and Charlie V. for Russell Westbrook and Perry Jones III.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6419995

My thoughts are that OKC would probably consider this trade, as they appear to be playing quite effectively without Russell and the addition of a true low-post option (Moose) would offer a dimension to their roster that they don't currently have, as Reggie Jackson could serve as their current version of James Harden. Also, Brandon Jennings could help to make-up for the lost of Westbrook, as Scott Brooks and Durant would get his ass to play a more consistent brand of basketball. Charlie V. could help OKC add more talent in the off-season with his expiring contract.

Russell Westbrook, as a Piston would solidify OUR PG position. He would make everybody else on the roster better. He would even make Cheeks look like an NBA coach. Perry Jones III would be a great, young option at the SF position.

I would imagine that David Falk, Moose's agent would push for this trade, as well, because Falk's client is losing money every time that he steps on the floor as a Piston, as OUR Pistons are currently constructed.

Joe wake your ass up and get this trade done!

PG - Westbrook/Stuckey
SG - KCP/Stuckey
SF - Perry Jones III/Singler
PF - Smith/Jerebko/T. Mitch
C- Dree/Harrellson

[Go Stones!]

The most laughable reason for deployment of a player in the NBA is playing Will Bynum in your rotation, simply because he's from the same city as the coach; a defenseless, ball hogging, undersized, shoot-first PG, with absolutely no leadership skills. What can possibly be accomplished in the long or short run by molly coddling a player that hurts the team more than he helps it? He's an aggravation on the court....for the fans who cheer for the Pistons!

Stones, I found it interesting in your trade scenarios, in one you had Datome listed as a backup SF and in the other you listed him as a backup PF, but in both you listed Singler as either a starter or backup at SF; why is Datome looked at as this "hybrid" forward and he's smaller than Singler? Why can't Gigi get any consideration for our starting SF? I know you're just echoing what a lot of fans feel, and Cheeks has been acting on, but why can't we fans see what Datome can or can not do given extended PT for a few games? In my mind, I don't believe given 33 min. of playing time, he'd only contribute 2 pts., 3 reb., 1 ast., and 2 steals, which was the line on Singler last night; there has been too many of those nights for Singler for him to be a lock on our only true SF....didn't he come to prominence in Detroit by playing SG last year anyway?

Ladies and gentlemen I've got Mo Cheeks in my crosshairs and ready to squeeze one off; why in the hell can't Stuckey come in to back up Jennings at PG, and Singler backup KCP at SG, leaving a floor spreader like Datome backup Smith at SF? That would mean replacing a 5' 11" player in the rotation with a 6' 8" player...I sound delusional, right? I stated earlier in the year that I felt Datome and Singler would be a handful coming off the bench together, and that was before Stuckey distinguished himself as an elite level 6th man....if you can imagine those three playing alongside Jorts and Drummond, to positive ends, you can also see how ridiculous it is to keep running Bynum out there night after night, and when Jennings doesn't have it, there is a viable option in Stuckey at PG (yeah Sebastian, his time has come). In my mind also, there's no better backup on this team for KCP than Singler, because Billups is not the answer....unless we're serious about tanking the season, and if that's the case, keep playing Bynum, allow Chauncey to partake of the elixir of 9 Tana leaves, and Datome to rot on the bench, while he's being mentored by CV.

Great point! I just know that in the past Singler has played SF and SG and VERY rarely PF. I also know that Gigi has played SF and PF with the Pistons. Just going off history. I believe at the beginning of the season we had Gigi as the next coming of Dirk as a SF. I believe he has two things right and two things wrong:

Right:
1. He has a great shot selection (and good form)
2. He busts his @$$

Wrong:
1. He can't hit the broad side of a barn! FG = 28/80 35% and 3-Pt 6/33 18%
2. He is always a 1/2 step slower than the rest.

[lemonpen]

We get this level of effort against everyone!

This loss was due to inexperience coupled with the fact the they still don't play well as a team for more than a few stretches in a game! You have to wonder when Cheeks will pull the plug on Smith jacking up ill advised shots and devise an offense to take advantage of his true skills!

But Don made a few good points,

"I am against trading Greg Monroe. Smith can go and I will not shed a tear. But Say no to trading Monroe. Monroe and Drummond might become the best big man combo in the NBA. They need more time. Pay the money and keep both of them. Sign some real guards and develop them. Set the time table for two more seasons before Detroit takes over as the power team of the NBA." - Don

You're darn skippy!!! Jennings does some dumb stuff too, but Jennings, Monroe & Drummond are young players, I just feel that the two stud bigs will eventually get it, and I like Jennings chances as well!

Even though Josh is stinking up the joint, I also feel that if only we had a better coach, we'd get more out of him!

Don, good to see you coming around on Cheeks more, but don't confuse me placing the lions share of the blame on him as excusing everything the players do! No matter how bad the coach is, they need to fully embrace as much of the system as possible and improvise on that to make it work!

My problem is that Cheeks foundation is so weak, they're struggling to make enough good things happen, but I do admit that both players and coach are struggling in a first year relationship!

For three and a half quarters we looked like five guys on a coordinated mission. I was somewhat surprised with our level of aggressiveness, wondering where in the world it goes against lesser comp.

I need to do an eye check. Did it look like we were sprinting up AND DOWN the court a lot more often last night.
My reason for mentioning this is despite an easy win the Sixers beat us down court for layups 4 or 5 times after made baskets. Sometimes instead of playing to dominate every minute on the floor guys pace themselves to last their full allotment of minutes.

[deusXango]

The most laughable reason for deployment of a player in the NBA is playing Will Bynum in your rotation, simply because he's from the same city as the coach; a defenseless, ball hogging, undersized, shoot-first PG, with absolutely no leadership skills. What can possibly be accomplished in the long or short run by molly coddling a player that hurts the team more than he helps it? He's an aggravation on the court....for the fans who cheer for the Pistons!

Stones, I found it interesting in your trade scenarios, in one you had Datome listed as a backup SF and in the other you listed him as a backup PF, but in both you listed Singler as either a starter or backup at SF; why is Datome looked at as this "hybrid" forward and he's smaller than Singler? Why can't Gigi get any consideration for our starting SF? I know you're just echoing what a lot of fans feel, and Cheeks has been acting on, but why can't we fans see what Datome can or can not do given extended PT for a few games? In my mind, I don't believe given 33 min. of playing time, he'd only contribute 2 pts., 3 reb., 1 ast., and 2 steals, which was the line on Singler last night; there has been too many of those nights for Singler for him to be a lock on our only true SF....didn't he come to prominence in Detroit by playing SG last year anyway?

Ladies and gentlemen I've got Mo Cheeks in my crosshairs and ready to squeeze one off; why in the hell can't Stuckey come in to back up Jennings at PG, and Singler backup KCP at SG, leaving a floor spreader like Datome backup Smith at SF? That would mean replacing a 5' 11" player in the rotation with a 6' 8" player...I sound delusional, right? I stated earlier in the year that I felt Datome and Singler would be a handful coming off the bench together, and that was before Stuckey distinguished himself as an elite level 6th man....if you can imagine those three playing alongside Jorts and Drummond, to positive ends, you can also see how ridiculous it is to keep running Bynum out there night after night, and when Jennings doesn't have it, there is a viable option in Stuckey at PG (yeah Sebastian, his time has come). In my mind also, there's no better backup on this team for KCP than Singler, because Billups is not the answer....unless we're serious about tanking the season, and if that's the case, keep playing Bynum, allow Chauncey to partake of the elixir of 9 Tana leaves, and Datome to rot on the bench, while he's being mentored by CV.

[Go Stones!]

I think NY Knicks would do a trade JSmith for Andrea Bargnani. I like this as it lowers the amount of money out and gives us a GREAT stretch 4 despite what Monroe does next summer. For SF we could use Stuckey/CV/JJ/Bynum as trade bait to get our SF we want. Maybe get a Deng or a Granger to test drive for the rest of the season?

Mo has also used Stuckey/KCP/Jennings in a small line-up so could use that or Kyle Singler if no trade happens.

In essence it allows us to have a mulligan of sorts with J.Smith. It cuts his salary length in half. It gives us a great Big option in Bargnani who would fit great with either Moose or Dre as it would stretch the floor. It essentially gives us the depth we need next to Jorts.

PG: Jennings, Bynum, Siva
SG: KCP, Billups
SF: Singler, Datome
PF: Monroe, Bargnani, Mitchell
C: Dre, Jorts

CV/Stuckey/JJ = depth at SF/SG

Another option would be to trade for Pau Gasol! He has range and could get him (19M) for Monroe (4M), Stuckey(8.5M) (as they are short a PG due to injury) and JJ (4.5M). At the end of the year it saves Lakers a couple Million and we have 2 roster spots available. All will be Free Agents next summer except for JJ. It gives us a sneak peak at what would happen if we had a PF with range along with JSmith and Dre.

PG: Jennings, Bynum, Siva
SG: KCP, Singler, Billups
SF: J.Smith, Singler
PF: Gasol, Datome, CV, Mitchell
C:Dre, Jorts

Could then use CV to get a better SG in the mix.

[cool breeze]

I predict that there will be a flopping warning/fine from last night's game.  Specifically, the one that D.Wade did on Dre.  That sat his @$$ down for the rest of the half.  10 more minutes of Dre and it may have been a different outcome to the game.  It ticks me off b/c they can call a foul and it hugely affects the outcome of who is on the court...then give flop warning/fine after the fact.  I guess the rich keep getting richer!

Also, why did Cheeks play JJ instead of Jorts?  I'm at a loss with this one.  Are they posturing to trade JJ?  Or do they think that since Jorts used to play for Heat last year that they are aware of his weaknesses?  Hmmmm.  It is interesting that they didn't even try PonyTail, CV or Jorts out there.  I'm not complaining since I thought JJ played hard, but you don't get results on just effort.

Also of note:  Wade played this time around.  He is like Billups and picks and chooses which games he will play.  Our team put some scare into the Heat this time.  Without Wade, without Dre getting that foul on a flop from D.Wade and without the Techs it is a different outcome!  Potential is in the air!  

Harrellison has a sore knee so JJ was brought in to take his minutes. I thought he did well on the boards. There is no reason why JJ should not get playing time in every game and especially in many of the past games that were blow outs with our bigs playing lazy basketball. It is the NBA set rotation system that should be changed to reflect what is going on in the actual games. Create more competition for playing time instead of freezing out players that might bring more energy. As a player sitting on the bench and watching players who are occupying your position not playing hard can cause you to become depressed and also detached from the team. If your coach is not watching the action and allowing players to get away with little or no effort, then you lose respect for your coach.

Creating competition within the guards signed to contracts on this team will not help. We have the worst selection of guards in the entire NBA on this Piston team. No team can win when you are forced to play Bynum and Jennings at the same time. In fact, Cheeks has become insane it seems because he is now playing three dysfunctional guards at the same time. I would like the coach to install one rule if he has any control of his guards. That rule would be that the player who dribbles the ball down the court has to attempt at least one pass before he jacks up a shot. Maybe the other rule should be for every guard who gets beat by dribble penetration to raise his hands to the fans and say he is sorry. Last night I watched Bynum so his usual fake attempt at guarding his man. He put one arm sideways instead of moving his feet thinking that would prevent his man from going around him. Coach Cheeks doesn't see this happening though and is OK with it because Bynum is from Chicago.

How about Joe Dumars admitting his mistakes and trading Josh Smith to Charlotte for Ben Gordon and his expiring contract. The Bobcats need a power forward really bad. Although Smith hates playing power forward, maybe he would like the weather better there and would be more cooperative. Smith could be an effective small forward but he is not the kind of person who likes to work on his shooting or footwork that that position requires. He is not a worker like Labron James. Why didn't Joe know that???

[Go Stones!]

I predict that there will be a flopping warning/fine from last night's game. Specifically, the one that D.Wade did on Dre. That sat his @$$ down for the rest of the half. 10 more minutes of Dre and it may have been a different outcome to the game. It ticks me off b/c they can call a foul and it hugely affects the outcome of who is on the court...then give flop warning/fine after the fact. I guess the rich keep getting richer!

Also, why did Cheeks play JJ instead of Jorts? I'm at a loss with this one. Are they posturing to trade JJ? Or do they think that since Jorts used to play for Heat last year that they are aware of his weaknesses? Hmmmm. It is interesting that they didn't even try PonyTail, CV or Jorts out there. I'm not complaining since I thought JJ played hard, but you don't get results on just effort.

Also of note: Wade played this time around. He is like Billups and picks and chooses which games he will play. Our team put some scare into the Heat this time. Without Wade, without Dre getting that foul on a flop from D.Wade and without the Techs it is a different outcome! Potential is in the air!

[Oracle]

We get this level of effort against everyone!

This loss was due to inexperience coupled with the fact the they still don't play well as a team for more than a few stretches in a game! You have to wonder when Cheeks will pull the plug on Smith jacking up ill advised shots and devise an offense to take advantage of his true skills!

But Don made a few good points,

"I am against trading Greg Monroe. Smith can go and I will not shed a tear. But Say no to trading Monroe. Monroe and Drummond might become the best big man combo in the NBA. They need more time. Pay the money and keep both of them. Sign some real guards and develop them. Set the time table for two more seasons before Detroit takes over as the power team of the NBA." - Don

You're darn skippy!!! Jennings does some dumb stuff too, but Jennings, Monroe & Drummond are young players, I just feel that the two stud bigs will eventually get it, and I like Jennings chances as well!

Even though Josh is stinking up the joint, I also feel that if only we had a better coach, we'd get more out of him!

Don, good to see you coming around on Cheeks more, but don't confuse me placing the lions share of the blame on him as excusing everything the players do! No matter how bad the coach is, they need to fully embrace as much of the system as possible and improvise on that to make it work!

My problem is that Cheeks foundation is so weak, they're struggling to make enough good things happen, but I do admit that both players and coach are struggling in a first year relationship!

[Phil-Good]

Turnovers...The Pistons can't shoot the basketball and they can't defend the 3pt line. Same old, same old.

This team is talented but they not smart at all. The Game management by the players is on A very low rookie scale right now. Losing track of Ray Allen like he some regular guy off the streets of MIAMI! Not good.


But I'm waiting for Greg Monroe to show me something!! I'm WAITING!! I'm looking but right now I don't see it. I know it's in there, but I just don't see it right now. I see it with Drummonds, Jennings is having A really good season. If you put Josh Smith in situations where he does not have to think too much, he can really help A team win games. But Greg Monroe is having A really down season. It's timers where he looks lost out there..

But If Greg could step up, I could see the Pistons making A nice run in the second half!!

[Sissy1946]

Just wanted to do a short drive by on Joshie Smith, known now as I have delegated a new nickname for him which is "El Stinko", hosted his tremendous game face effort again as he show-boated Another round of "Wild Shots" as he is well known for that, he even has a patent on them.
He went off stupdforically for 5-20 tonight with a resounding 6 more turnovers, this guy has to be one one of the most stupidest basketball players I have ever seen with all the talent he has, it's a shame, he needs to be traded from this team as he has turned into a ball hog disease for these pistons, he cant even dribble the ball up the court without turning it over as he did 3 times in the last 3 games, they will never win with this ball-hog ISO player ever.
Iam done with this POS. while your at it whoever is in charge now, also get rid of ball hogs Stucky, Bynum & Jennings, I could stand Jennings but those other 3 have to go.

[cool breeze]

As Billups can no longer play effectively, I am sure he talking to all of them and must be trying hard to settle the guards down to help them reduce mental errors. But my best guess as to what he would advise Mr. Gores would be to trade Stuckey while he has value and try to include Bynum in any kind of trade. We need to clean house with our guards maybe with the exception of Jennings. Tonight Stuckey played well in the first half but he offered next to nothing on both ends of the floor in the 2nd half. He is the 8.5 million dollar a year player. You have to get a lot of production out of a guard who makes that much money. Just how hard did Stuckey run without the basketball in the 4th quarter? KCP is just not strong enough to play in that kind of game. He cannot guard Wade at all. Bynum cannot guard anyone in the NBA. Bynum cannot run an offense against a good team. Billups would tell Gores that if he were the coach, he would demand that Dumars bring up some guards from the D League. This is a waste of time to go on any longer with this group of guards. Billups career is over as a player. But he has a good basketball mind and could do a better job than Cheeks right now if he were in charge of the team.

How easy it is to be the head coach of the Detroit Pistons. Just decide who you are going to play before the game and when player changes will take place. It doesn't matter what is happening in the games. Just read your notes and watch the clock instead of the game and go with your pre set rotations. That is what is going on with this head coach right now. There will be the occasional instance like tonight when Drummond picked up those quick fouls. Oh, such hard work it is to be the coach of the Pistons. He is not making adjustments that make any sense. He played 3 dysfunctional guards at the same time in both halves of this game. They are the same guards who couldn't stop dribble penetration in the last game and every game before that. Then you have to face the post game interview. That is the tough part but Cheeks is used to saying the same thing when Detroit loses. "Those 50/50 balls didn't go our way".

The other thing that Billups would tell Mr. Gores is to keep both Monroe and Drummond and all others should be available to package in any trade. Maybe keep Singler because he is not paid much and has a team first mentality. This team has way too many players who are fundamentally unsound. As a group the players cannot think ahead or are not capable of making a high percentage pass, set a good screen, or shoot the basketball consistently well. On the defensive side, most of the players do not box out their assigned man when the shot goes up. Much of the time, players are not guarding anyone or have lost concentration so badly that they don't know where their assigned man is located on the court. Getting consistently sucked into a simple head fake leaving your feet or flashing out late on a shooter and making a jump stop instead of keeping the feet moving is an amazing thing for me to watch. This is just dumb basketball we are watching from our players. These are mistakes that good high school players do not make. It doesn't seem to bother Mo Cheeks at all. He rewards his favorite guards with more playing time never seeming to notice how badly they are playing. We have no idea how effective our big men might be if we had really good guards. We Piston fans are used to good guards wearing the uniform. I am tired of watching this group.

I have one other question about Drummond's decision to take the ball coast to coast rather than pass the ball to Josh Smith who was far ahead of Drummond late in the 4th. That could have added a few more seconds to the game which Detroit needed at the time. Smith was over passing in this game trying to get guys like Drummond involved in the offense. I could see that Smith was irritated when Drummond decided to show boat. I know most Piston fans believe that Drummond can do no wrong but will the coach say anything to him? Drummond is young and wants to be recognized but in the end he might score a layup but people who enjoy real team basketball will believe that he is a self centered glory seeking player who is not thinking about winning games. The coach needs to bring this up and not avoid those kind of conversations that can actually help a player in the end. I feel that there are players on this team who think this is just a big party and are not really serious about creating a winning team. They are not preparing their minds to play before the games. There is something else that must be more important to them. So why should we fans care about them and pull for them? If your kid doesn't want to do his or her homework, what do you do? We have players with the minds of small children it seems. I always played harder when my coaches got under my skin and pointed out how badly I screwed up in some games. Maybe in the NBA that kind of talk is off limits. They are babies and are very sensitive so let them make those same mistakes and give them ice cream after they lose.

[merc]

Singler gets bonehead player of the game... at some point in time you have to understand it's not acceptable to leave Ray open in space... it wouold have been a lot worse if he was shooting per usual.

[cool breeze]

In the Philly game, I counted 13 times where Bynum allowed Tony Wroten to beat him badly on dribble penetration. Tony was able to get to the paint any time he wanted. So coach Cheeks rewarded Bynum in the Miami game giving him another opportunity to create turnovers on offense and offer no resistance on defense. Miami was not taking advantage of Bynum's defensive issues but anyone with half a brain could see that it was not a good idea to play three Piston guards if they include both Jennings and Bynum. Jennings can be clever on defense at times and he can be a lightning rod on offense offering a spark when the teams needs his scoring. I know some fans have been on Cheeks. My basic complaint is the Cheeks will play certain players and they do not have to be accountable. Cheeks and Bynum grew up in the same city. So I guess it only makes sense that Mo should play Will not matter how it might affect the team. Our Pistons would be so much better off if Dumars would bring in a guard from the D League for a 10 day contract or develop Siva this season. There is no upside to playing WIll Bynum.

I am against trading Greg Monroe. Smith can go and I will not shed a tear. But Say no to trading Monroe. Monroe and Drummond might become the best big man combo in the NBA. They need more time. Pay the money and keep both of them. Sign some real guards and develop them. Set the time table for two more seasons before Detroit takes over as the power team of the NBA.

[merc]

Sparma, I read your post twice... the second time it made perfect sense... these guys didn't get where they are financially without using sophisticated analytical tools... Cheeks is an old school coach that goes with gut reactions... during in game situations this can be a more accurate indicator than previous stats... if a player is off or f'n things up then you have to go with other options...
that said management probably knows which rotations match better than the coach... both sides need to enlighten the other.
I can see how you came to the conclusion that team Gores is not happy with Mo... this guy hardly comes across as an astute communicator.... I'd be more interested in what Chauncey thinks... he's had a couple of elite coaches... I wonder if Mr. Gores has had any side bars with CB... I would absolutely prefer Chauncey over Cheeks.

[Oracle]

@Sparma - I do think you're stretching it a bit! But I also think that what you're saying plays a vital and crucial role in the larger picture of preparation and getting the team to achieve it's maximum performance.

@DX - You have clearly nailed it, and it's what I've been harping on for weeks! Anybody should be able to see that the problem rest solely on the coaching position!

Gores being a businessman knows the value and purpose of the guy in charge and how he can either get the best out of his team, or make them worse, and it's not always about the talent!

Cheeks is a fool if he thinks that the silly mind games he's playing on Josh & Andre don't go un-noticed by them or the rest of the team! Trust me, the team knows how ineffective he is to this point!

If Joe can't see what's going on and get Cheeks some help figuring out how to use the talent on this roster, he's out the door with Cheeks!

Trust me, Gores isn't saying this stuff by pulling it out of his ass, he's talked to better basketball minds, and they know that there's no possible way this roster of talent should be doing this bad!

And remember performance is RELATIVE! Relative to the weakness of the eastern conference, this team should be a 3rd or 4th seed right now!

So Gores was VERY clear. The question is did anybody hear him!

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