FORUM
+12
deusXango
Sebastian
Go Stones!
Murph
Oracle
Phil-Good
merc
PistonPete
lemonpen
cool breeze
Fennis Dembo
Sissy1946
16 posters
Page 21 of 40
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Merc, OUR Big 3 frontline is not working ...
merc wrote:I'm inclined to agree with Wise's last two posts... I'm in no hurry to blow up the big three until we're sure it won't work... also kinda feeling Singler lately... SG is not an issue.
Wait and see should be a solid option.
Merc, my man, Dre, Moose, and Josh are not working, effectively enough, together. OUR supposed imposing front line has been out worked by the Hawks and Lakers on two separate occasions, to the tune of four loses.
And, Moose has been outworked by every possible 2nd tier PF that he has faced and only a 1/4 of the season has passed. Dudes like, Jordan Hill (LA), Steven Adams (OKC), Jermaine fuckin' O'Neal (GS), Joh Henson (Mil), the Lopez twin (Portland), etc. and these dudes are not even Stretch 4's. Hell, Moose couldn't even take advantage of Shane Battier, the other night.
Moose has got to go and sooner rather than later, because if truth be told the dude is looking lesser and lesser than a max contract player, as the season progressing. And, his agent, David Falk will surely demand the grandest possible contract for his client.
Last edited by Sebastian on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sebastian- Posts : 1278
Join date : 2011-12-16
Location : Durham, NC
I find it odd...
On a team that has 4, count 'em, 4 backup PG's, a backup PG is considered a pressing need. Why is that? Stuckey is not good enough? Chauncey, who's supposed to be teaching Jennings (if one can believe that), is not good enough? Willie B., our FA signing, is not good enough? I know that a late second round rookie PG is not good enough! All these fcking backup PG's and 1 SG period, but PG is a pressing need and not another talented guard that would fit with Jennings and KCP long term?! If I was a drinking man, I'd be drunk.
I totally agree with you Wise, on the idea that Josh Smith would be a better compliment for Drummond than "the Moose" is at PF, but we must get a hell of a SF to come in for this team to be what we all want it to be. I was hoping that Monroe and Smith could be the perfect compliments for Drummond, but as we all can see, Monroe's Stuckey like inconsistency is killing that hope. I was hoping for a first round pick this year, because it's going to be loaded with stellar SF's, compared to years past; it's almost impossible to get an established SF that'll fit our needs.
I like the fact that Oracle stepped up and said what I was thinking; a starting backcourt of Jennings and Waiters would be ideal, with KCP becoming our 6th man supreme. Anyway, I've enjoyed the trade debate that's started by Sebastian, and will continue for awhile.
I totally agree with you Wise, on the idea that Josh Smith would be a better compliment for Drummond than "the Moose" is at PF, but we must get a hell of a SF to come in for this team to be what we all want it to be. I was hoping that Monroe and Smith could be the perfect compliments for Drummond, but as we all can see, Monroe's Stuckey like inconsistency is killing that hope. I was hoping for a first round pick this year, because it's going to be loaded with stellar SF's, compared to years past; it's almost impossible to get an established SF that'll fit our needs.
I like the fact that Oracle stepped up and said what I was thinking; a starting backcourt of Jennings and Waiters would be ideal, with KCP becoming our 6th man supreme. Anyway, I've enjoyed the trade debate that's started by Sebastian, and will continue for awhile.
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
Two Moves Joe Needs To Make
There are 2 more pressing needs this team has than SG and that's currently a need for a solid back up PG and perhaps a move to another starting PF. IMO Moose has the talent just not where-with-all to go out and be consistent enough far too many days off. This isn't a meshing issue or waiting to see how our big three does in the long run, we all been watching the games and we see what they're capable of. There 's not an issue of chemistry with our front, but there is a consistency issue with them especially Monroe and this can be corrected by trading him and it's not a chemistry killing move if we did.
The reason I would pass on Waiters is the "If Factor" that's attached to him while I'm not oppose to trading for these types of players I am oppose to having too many of them on the team. IMO we already have 3 of those players in our starting rotation with Jennings, Smith and Monroe.
How would a lineup of Jennings, KCP, Melo, Josh, and Andre look oppose to the line up we have with Moose. Not that this would happen
The reason I would pass on Waiters is the "If Factor" that's attached to him while I'm not oppose to trading for these types of players I am oppose to having too many of them on the team. IMO we already have 3 of those players in our starting rotation with Jennings, Smith and Monroe.
How would a lineup of Jennings, KCP, Melo, Josh, and Andre look oppose to the line up we have with Moose. Not that this would happen
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
Le Game: Wolves not an easy out!
We've tapped that ass before, can we tap it again when it counts?
We'll see, but we're going to need Singler to step up and help out! That video(at Pistons.com) of the epic Singler vs Love basketball wars was really interesting! Their battles go back a long way, and had a ton of drama associated with them... good stuff!
BTW, David Aldredge does a Q & A with Drummond in an article about why the east is so weak, but I guess he didn't catch the Bobcats taking out the Warriors last night!
Q AND A: ANDRE DRUMMOND
We'll see, but we're going to need Singler to step up and help out! That video(at Pistons.com) of the epic Singler vs Love basketball wars was really interesting! Their battles go back a long way, and had a ton of drama associated with them... good stuff!
BTW, David Aldredge does a Q & A with Drummond in an article about why the east is so weak, but I guess he didn't catch the Bobcats taking out the Warriors last night!
Q AND A: ANDRE DRUMMOND
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Waiters
I think Wise makes a legitimate argument, but it's not one of those things where one argument rules them all, and there are a lot of those cases actually.
In this case, a legitimate argument could be made that we need to move on past Stuckey ASAP, and IMO, a strong case could be made that way for Chauncey!
Timing is obviously an issue, and once you start making progress, you're risk averse.
In this case, I would tread lightly because our progress may be fragile, so while I do like the Waiters deal, now may not be the best time.
However, unlike Merc, I believe that SG is a problem! With Waiters starting, KCP can get into the role of defensive specialist full time, and get at least 50% of the minutes Stuckey used to log.
Then we have another true scoring threat on the floor in the starting unit, and IMO, that's what we need to legitimately spread the floor and compliment Jennings!
As I said, I can respect other opinions on this because it's not as clear as black/white. There are many shades of gray, and other ways to achieve the goal as well!
In this case, a legitimate argument could be made that we need to move on past Stuckey ASAP, and IMO, a strong case could be made that way for Chauncey!
Timing is obviously an issue, and once you start making progress, you're risk averse.
In this case, I would tread lightly because our progress may be fragile, so while I do like the Waiters deal, now may not be the best time.
However, unlike Merc, I believe that SG is a problem! With Waiters starting, KCP can get into the role of defensive specialist full time, and get at least 50% of the minutes Stuckey used to log.
Then we have another true scoring threat on the floor in the starting unit, and IMO, that's what we need to legitimately spread the floor and compliment Jennings!
As I said, I can respect other opinions on this because it's not as clear as black/white. There are many shades of gray, and other ways to achieve the goal as well!
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Joe is not going to make a meaningful trade, just wait and see.
Merc, I've always been for keeping our Big 3 together for the duration of this season and evaluate what their worth is then.
Wise, you make some great points, but in firing my last shot; this is Stuckey's finest season as whatever type guard he is, but Waiters numbers are better in his sophomore season. If Joe talked through Waiters agent before a trade was consummated, to get a feel for how manageable he would be....well?
Wise, you make some great points, but in firing my last shot; this is Stuckey's finest season as whatever type guard he is, but Waiters numbers are better in his sophomore season. If Joe talked through Waiters agent before a trade was consummated, to get a feel for how manageable he would be....well?
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
Wise One
I'm inclined to agree with Wise's last two posts... I'm in no hurry to blow up the big three until we're sure it won't work... also kinda feeling Singler lately... SG is not an issue.
Wait and see should be a solid option.
Wait and see should be a solid option.
merc- Posts : 1070
Join date : 2011-12-13
Please, Please don't let this Santa into your homes!!!
Unless you're freaky
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Yeah You're Out Of Your Damn Mind :-)
deusXango wrote:Wise, if Stuckey decides he's had enough of Detroit and a team in the NW offered just what he's making now, if he signed, we'd loose out. We don't have a backup SG (Stuckey is a bully guard, remember?) and to me that's the issue; with Jennings, KCP, and Waiters we've got excellent young guard play, for the next 5 years easily, if we choose. Joe ain't the dumbest GM in the NBA; with Cleveland's roster I don't think Joe would have made Bennett the first pick in this years draft, that's why I believe we have a 50/50 chance to pull this trade off (Waiters and a 1st).MOOSEFAN wrote:Oracle wrote:"Knowledgeable fellow fans, I know this trade proposal is not going to fly with a great many of you, but to me it makes a lot of sense. Rodney Stuckey and Payton Siva for Dion Waiters an one of the Cavs first round picks." - DX
Seriously, I LOVE that idea! I think Waiters would fit in here very well!
Sound okay but I'm not sure only because I don't see where it really helps. I don't think we have a backup SG issue and I really don't see the Cavs giving up a pick just to get rid of Waiters.
Losing Stuckey isn't a huge issue come summer, breaking the chemistry this season is. If we were offering Stuckey up for anything but another SG for like a serious back up PG or SF then maybe. Like I said SG are a dime a dozen and teams can turn or will attempt to turn anything into SG. See Singler, hell see Daye and Joe seems to toss them away like they're a dime a dozen See. Affalo See. Middleton.
What makes Stuckey special and valuable is his "Combo Guard" status don't think we didn't miss him the last couple of games either. Acquiring a back up SG is the least difficult positions to address IMO and if Joe does his homework he can easily find that in the second round of the draft.
Now lets look at Waiters he doesn't want to be a backup he wants to start, he wants to shine, he wants equal billing and that's something he's not going to get here not playing with the level of talent we have. Isn't this way many find KCP so intriguing is that he doesn't need to shine in the starting unit. Waiters would be no more happier here than he is with the Cavs right now and I still say the Cavs wouldn't offer up a 1st rounder. JMO I could be damn crazy too
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
The Kings just got better....
A LOT better!!!
They now have three go to players in their starting lineup, Cousins, Thomas, and now Gay!
That's going to translate into additional wins sooner or later!
That's what we're missing! We have one go to player in Jennings, and he isn't really the classical go to guy, but he's the best we've got!
Drummond is probably 2 years away from being that guy, but IMO, he's going to get there or die trying, and he'll be unstoppable!
We need a guy like Gay, we absolutely need another go to player to take that next step!
The only other way would be to crank up the defense and try a 2004 type run, but we don't quite have the chemistry for that right now!
So the Kings just got better, and that begs the question... will we?
They now have three go to players in their starting lineup, Cousins, Thomas, and now Gay!
That's going to translate into additional wins sooner or later!
That's what we're missing! We have one go to player in Jennings, and he isn't really the classical go to guy, but he's the best we've got!
Drummond is probably 2 years away from being that guy, but IMO, he's going to get there or die trying, and he'll be unstoppable!
We need a guy like Gay, we absolutely need another go to player to take that next step!
The only other way would be to crank up the defense and try a 2004 type run, but we don't quite have the chemistry for that right now!
So the Kings just got better, and that begs the question... will we?
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Oracle, you know damn well I'm out of my mind!!!
Wise, if Stuckey decides he's had enough of Detroit and a team in the NW offered just what he's making now, if he signed, we'd loose out. We don't have a backup SG (Stuckey is a bully guard, remember?) and to me that's the issue; with Jennings, KCP, and Waiters we've got excellent young guard play, for the next 5 years easily, if we choose. Joe ain't the dumbest GM in the NBA; with Cleveland's roster I don't think Joe would have made Bennett the first pick in this years draft, that's why I believe we have a 50/50 chance to pull this trade off (Waiters and a 1st).MOOSEFAN wrote:Oracle wrote:"Knowledgeable fellow fans, I know this trade proposal is not going to fly with a great many of you, but to me it makes a lot of sense. Rodney Stuckey and Payton Siva for Dion Waiters an one of the Cavs first round picks." - DX
Seriously, I LOVE that idea! I think Waiters would fit in here very well!
Sound okay but I'm not sure only because I don't see where it really helps. I don't think we have a backup SG issue and I really don't see the Cavs giving up a pick just to get rid of Waiters.
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
Re: FORUM
Oracle wrote:"Knowledgeable fellow fans, I know this trade proposal is not going to fly with a great many of you, but to me it makes a lot of sense. Rodney Stuckey and Payton Siva for Dion Waiters an one of the Cavs first round picks." - DX
Seriously, I LOVE that idea! I think Waiters would fit in here very well!
Sound okay but I'm not sure only because I don't see where it really helps. I don't think we have a backup SG issue and I really don't see the Cavs giving up a pick just to get rid of Waiters.
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
DX, are you crazy???
"Knowledgeable fellow fans, I know this trade proposal is not going to fly with a great many of you, but to me it makes a lot of sense. Rodney Stuckey and Payton Siva for Dion Waiters an one of the Cavs first round picks." - DX
Seriously, I LOVE that idea! I think Waiters would fit in here very well!
Seriously, I LOVE that idea! I think Waiters would fit in here very well!
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Re: FORUM
Knowledgeable fellow fans, I know this trade proposal is not going to fly with a great many of you, but to me it makes a lot of sense. Rodney Stuckey and Payton Siva for Dion Waiters an one of the Cavs first round picks. There I've said it. Jennings, KCP, and Waiters would be a great 3 guard rotation going forward. I know the negative talk about Waiters inability to get along with team mates, and I also know his abilities on both ends of the court as a player. I know that we desperately need an early first round pick this coming summer (which we won't have!) where we can get a shot at an alpha dog SF. I also am not of the mind to trade a highly touted RFA (Greg Monroe) before we know what he can bring on the open market, or what we can get in a sign & trade later. Stuckey's value is at it's greatest, since he's been in a Pistons uniform, and he's unrestricted.
In the absence of any SF's that would fit on our frontline of Drummond and Smith, it makes no sense to trade Monroe and move Smith to the 4 right now, but there is an opportunity to positively address our backup SG need. The only quality forwards we could possibly obtain are both in Philly; one wouldn't make any better starter that Singler (Evan Turner) IMHO, and the other doesn't play SF (Thaddeus Young). Think on it folks. Could it work for us?
In the absence of any SF's that would fit on our frontline of Drummond and Smith, it makes no sense to trade Monroe and move Smith to the 4 right now, but there is an opportunity to positively address our backup SG need. The only quality forwards we could possibly obtain are both in Philly; one wouldn't make any better starter that Singler (Evan Turner) IMHO, and the other doesn't play SF (Thaddeus Young). Think on it folks. Could it work for us?
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
Re: FORUM
Nice...Oracle wrote:
This pic of CJ was taken a few seconds earlier
merc- Posts : 1070
Join date : 2011-12-13
Trade Talk
Well hell,
Boston is dealing, how about Moose, CV and Bynum for Jeff Green Jordan Crawford n Marshon Brooks
Toronto is dealing. How about Amir Johnson n Derozan for Moose n Charlie V n Bynum.
Tom Haberstroh on Raptors: "Don't assume that tanking is all about losses. Slicing long-term payroll is a big part of a teardown. Most important thing though is that the Raptors aren't done dealing. This is the first domino to fall.
So if we could grab Amir, they could tryout Moose and if they don't like him, could trade him at the end of this season. Raptors are already talking about having big Jonas Valencunias come off the bench. This nets us more heart, more athleticism and more DEFENSE. I know Derozan is not that deal, but he is young and athletic and gives us the SG we need to run out there till KCP finds his shot. Plus KCP can switch in for Defense when needed. At worst, Derozan is another trade chip.
Or try to get in on the Omar Asik trade as a three way trade dump for Moose. Not sure who else might be in play, but hey you gotta be in it to win it.
Boston is dealing, how about Moose, CV and Bynum for Jeff Green Jordan Crawford n Marshon Brooks
Toronto is dealing. How about Amir Johnson n Derozan for Moose n Charlie V n Bynum.
Tom Haberstroh on Raptors: "Don't assume that tanking is all about losses. Slicing long-term payroll is a big part of a teardown. Most important thing though is that the Raptors aren't done dealing. This is the first domino to fall.
So if we could grab Amir, they could tryout Moose and if they don't like him, could trade him at the end of this season. Raptors are already talking about having big Jonas Valencunias come off the bench. This nets us more heart, more athleticism and more DEFENSE. I know Derozan is not that deal, but he is young and athletic and gives us the SG we need to run out there till KCP finds his shot. Plus KCP can switch in for Defense when needed. At worst, Derozan is another trade chip.
Or try to get in on the Omar Asik trade as a three way trade dump for Moose. Not sure who else might be in play, but hey you gotta be in it to win it.
PistonPete- Posts : 52
Join date : 2013-09-27
WOW!
I changed mu browser to Firefox and it's like I got a new laptop. Why I've screwing with IE and Chrome is beyond me. IE is slow as **** and Google crashes every time I look in it's direction. I thought it was my laptop causing all my issues and its the damn browser WOW!
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
That Lions Game Made Me Sick As Well
This team could be just **** incredible if they just play smart for a whole 60 minutes. No way they shouldn't conceivably be 11-2 right now if not for all the **** mental lapses. How can you lead the lead in yardage, have a top receiver and a QB that put up yardage numbers as Stafford and a beast of a defensively line and be so middle of the road.
3 red zone fumbles 7 or 8 fumbles for the game. No excuse but those 2 calls did something to that defense because they weren't right after those calls happen. It took the life out of them and they were so bad of calls those refs should be fined heavily for them but still no excuses.
In some fairness our offense left them on the field too long which is the case more times than not, but in a game like this you knew it was just a matter of time before teams hit you with with big plays. I think weather played it's part our defense isn't known for giving up big running plays. No Snow we win this game
3 red zone fumbles 7 or 8 fumbles for the game. No excuse but those 2 calls did something to that defense because they weren't right after those calls happen. It took the life out of them and they were so bad of calls those refs should be fined heavily for them but still no excuses.
In some fairness our offense left them on the field too long which is the case more times than not, but in a game like this you knew it was just a matter of time before teams hit you with with big plays. I think weather played it's part our defense isn't known for giving up big running plays. No Snow we win this game
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
Where's The F*cking Defense?
The Lions made me sick yesterday. A couple of crappy calls go the other way, and they just quit. Philly scored TD's on 5 straight possessions (Would have been 6 if Celek wouldn't have slid down to run out the clock) in 8" of snow?!?!?!
Stafford wasn't great yesterday......but c'mon. The field was a joke. Not only does he provide yards, but he provides points. Lions ranked 4th in points coming into this weekend. The Defense ranked 18th. To pin this loss or any other this season is a joke. Stop somebody!
I'll cut the Pistons some slack on a back to back. But geeze........layups, dunks and wide open jumpers for the Heat all night. Pistons looked tired.
Stafford wasn't great yesterday......but c'mon. The field was a joke. Not only does he provide yards, but he provides points. Lions ranked 4th in points coming into this weekend. The Defense ranked 18th. To pin this loss or any other this season is a joke. Stop somebody!
I'll cut the Pistons some slack on a back to back. But geeze........layups, dunks and wide open jumpers for the Heat all night. Pistons looked tired.
FlyDog- Posts : 764
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 53
Location : Fort Myers, FL (Lil Pakistan)
Trade Rodney Stuckey ASAP!
If I'm the Pistons I'm looking around the NBA and trying to find A good fit to replace Rodney Stuckey.
The Pistons need A big kid who can shoot and put the ball in the hoop. Who this guy is, I don't know but he out there waiting for the opportunity to show the NBA world what he can do.
The Pistons need A big kid who can shoot and put the ball in the hoop. Who this guy is, I don't know but he out there waiting for the opportunity to show the NBA world what he can do.
Phil-Good- Posts : 1192
Join date : 2012-01-05
Re: FORUM
Hopefully the lessons learned is to be responsible on D... gambling can backfire... at what time do you learn not to leave Ray A alone?
Heat check.
Heat check.
merc- Posts : 1070
Join date : 2011-12-13
The Starting SF and PF positions ...
Piston Pals: Let's stop fooling ourselves, WE don't have a good enough starting SF or PF.
Neither Josh Smith or Moose have the offensive repertoires that allows them to be effective at each respective position.
Likewise on the other side of the floor, Josh and Moose don't have the tendencies or foot work to guard the respective positions.
I am not sure who will be traded, but Joe will be trading sometime between Sunday, December 15 and Thursday, December 19.
Neither Josh Smith or Moose have the offensive repertoires that allows them to be effective at each respective position.
Likewise on the other side of the floor, Josh and Moose don't have the tendencies or foot work to guard the respective positions.
I am not sure who will be traded, but Joe will be trading sometime between Sunday, December 15 and Thursday, December 19.
Last edited by Sebastian on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
Sebastian- Posts : 1278
Join date : 2011-12-16
Location : Durham, NC
Can't Win Them All
Can't be mad about getting ass whipping from the defending champs. They had good week and a good run run in time they'll be running off 10 in row.
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
Why we're losing?
1. We're still young and dumb at times
2. The Heat are better
3. They shot a hell of a lot better than they did in Miami
And that's the name of that tune... NEXT?
2. The Heat are better
3. They shot a hell of a lot better than they did in Miami
And that's the name of that tune... NEXT?
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
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