Seb

[Oracle]

Agree with you on Waiters, I would LOVE to have him as our SG, and move KCP to the bench as a defensive specialist until he grows!

I also like Don's idea of having KCP play some PG! We seriously need at least one PG with some size!

BTW, I hear the mothballs calling Chauncey! I can't believe that Joe didn't watch Chauncey in the Clippers/Memphis playoff series, he looked like sh!t, and I knew the Clippers wouldn't want him back!

How delusional was he, coming in here threatening BK7, and talking stuff that he was back to take over the PG job... what a effing joke!

Lastly, a shout out to Wise! He had a great idea when he said that we would be better off with either Burke/MCW, Knight and Middleton that what we have now! Knight as the Microwave off the bench, Burke as the PG, and Middleton growing into the new RIP!

If we had that, our shooting problems would be a distant memory... #joemissedopportunity

[Sebastian]

IF WE lose to the Wizards, WE will go down to the Wizards 2-1 with a fourth contest in D.C. on Jan. 18th.

I say Joe should get a "source" to get it into the media that Carmelo Anthony has demanded a trade.

WE offer the Knicks: Moose, B. Jennings, and Charlie V.; in return WE get Melo.

Why would the Joe do this deal with the Knicks and why would the Knicks accept, this offer?

Pistons: WE do the deal, because Joe has promised Gores that WE would make the playoffs and Joe is trying to keep his job and make his name good, again. Melo gives US a superstar-level player. A guy who commands a double team and a guy, who help sells some tickets. Also, Melo presence would help to define Smith's role, better.

Pistons fans will have to not worry themselves with Lala not wanting to live in any NBA city not named New York, LA, or Miami. If trading for Melo and consequently still playing during the last week of May, maybe just maybe, Melo will make a decision for himself and resigns with the Pistons. If, not WE just use his expiring contract to sign other free agents.

The Knicks do the this trade, because: 1) remember "sources" say Melo wants to be traded; 2) they get a PG with flash that New York City would like and he would like the City, additionally Jennings is signed at a modest amount and the Knicks need a point guard; 3) they get salary cap relief with Charlie V.'s contract and Charlie gets to go home, by way of the Dominican Republic; and 4) they get the Bird Rights to Moose a young PF/C.  

Note: Stuckey will have to become the starting PG.

Are you being funny Sebastian? While Anthony would really help our outside shooting percentages, we might lose even more games if Jennings is traded. This team is the worst defensive team in the league. Note that the announcers last night from Washington kept saying that the team's GM has a vision that the Wizards will win with their defense. So last night they attacked the Piston guards and made fools of them. Our guards are by far the worst set of guards on any NBA team. Stuckey is not a good player. He cannot play point guard. And he has another injury to add to the 100s of other injuries he has had. He has a shoulder injury that might bother him for the rest of the season. So how can you count on Stuckey to start at point guard which is a position he has never played well? We are left with KCP and Bynum. I would try KCP at point guard because he is the only pass first guard. It is not difficult to dribble the ball up the court and make the first pass. We do not have a play making guard on the team so why not use KCP at that position? Bynum is a pure circus act. it was a joke playing him at the 2 guard last night where Beal made a complete fool of him shooting over him and posting him at will. Detroit will never win anything with these guards even if Anthony came to us as a free agent. Anthony knows how bad our guards are so he wouldn't want to play for Detroit. The best thing that could happen now is to fire Joe Dumars who has created the worst guard combination in the entire history of Piston basketball. The owners must be pissed off now but they should have known what would happen last summer. Many of us were warning this would happen back then. Signing Bynum, keeping Stuckey and Charlie V, failing to draft Burke, and giving away a number one draft pick to the Bobcats to rid the team of Gordon has sealed the fate of the Detroit Pistons.

Yes cool breeze, I am as serious as a heart attack ... if WE lose tomorrow night to the Wizards a change must happen, and quick.

I'd say that Joe would have to scrap any "plan" that he had originally set and move some bodies.

What about:  

Moving Josh to the Rockets for Asik and T. Jones ... move Asik and Jerebko and a future 1st round pick to the Cavaliers ... acquire Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett.

Then WE roll with:

PG - B. Jennings/Chauncey/Will B.
SG - D. Waiters/*Stuckey/KCP
SF - T. Jones/Singler
PF - **Moose/A. Bennett
C - Dre/Harrellson

*Stuckey can play back-up minutes at the point to allow KCP back-up minutes at SG position.

**Moose can see minutes at the back-up center position, thus allowing Anthony Bennett minutes at the PF position, when Dre goes to the bench.

Waiters is an aggressive. young shooting guard who is ready to explode.

This is a much, much better roster.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n3w5oaj

[Oracle]

We have all been hoping that somehow this coaching staff might get through to the same players we have been watching for a long time. After the last two games, it is clear that these same players will always be a liability to this team. Take a look at the roster from the past 3 seasons and you will know what I am talking about. Nobody can make them better defenders. Nobody can make certain players play smarter or quicker. It is not youth either. If you don't have the fundamentals down by the time you get to the NBA you are in trouble. These Piston players wanted to win last night really bad after getting their asses kicked in Orlando. But it was worse last night. Our Pistons were playing really hard but they had the same result. Does this tell you anything?

Somehow after the time off, they have reverted to old habits!

This is not the defense we saw before the holidays, and Cheeks is right to question their effort!

When they play like this it magnifies the weak areas, but IMO, we haven't seen the same team we saw earlier!

Don notices that they're playing really hard, but there's a huge difference between playing hard and what you're playing hard to achieve.

They're playing hard doing the wrong things, unlike they way they were playing hard and doing the right things before the break!

This isn't a problem of the team being young, it's a symptom of them not being together long enough!

IMO, this sh!t ends Monday!

The wakeup call has been made and received! They will get focused and physical... it's the only way!

[Oracle]

Fly, that clip applies, and I'm reposting it and adding another! For some reason, Football has some of the greatest clips

[cool breeze]

We have all been hoping that somehow this coaching staff might get through to the same players we have been watching for a long time. After the last two games, it is clear that these same players will always be a liability to this team. Take a look at the roster from the past 3 seasons and you will know what I am talking about. Nobody can make them better defenders. Nobody can make certain players play smarter or quicker. It is not youth either. If you don't have the fundamentals down by the time you get to the NBA you are in trouble. These Piston players wanted to win last night really bad after getting their asses kicked in Orlando. But it was worse last night. Our Pistons were playing really hard but they had the same result. Does this tell you anything?

[cool breeze]

IF WE lose to the Wizards, WE will go down to the Wizards 2-1 with a fourth contest in D.C. on Jan. 18th.

I say Joe should get a "source" to get it into the media that Carmelo Anthony has demanded a trade.

WE offer the Knicks: Moose, B. Jennings, and Charlie V.; in return WE get Melo.

Why would the Joe do this deal with the Knicks and why would the Knicks accept, this offer?

Pistons: WE do the deal, because Joe has promised Gores that WE would make the playoffs and Joe is trying to keep his job and make his name good, again. Melo gives US a superstar-level player. A guy who commands a double team and a guy, who help sells some tickets. Also, Melo presence would help to define Smith's role, better.

Pistons fans will have to not worry themselves with Lala not wanting to live in any NBA city not named New York, LA, or Miami. If trading for Melo and consequently still playing during the last week of May, maybe just maybe, Melo will make a decision for himself and resigns with the Pistons. If, not WE just use his expiring contract to sign other free agents.

The Knicks do the this trade, because: 1) remember "sources" say Melo wants to be traded; 2) they get a PG with flash that New York City would like and he would like the City, additionally Jennings is signed at a modest amount and the Knicks need a point guard; 3) they get salary cap relief with Charlie V.'s contract and Charlie gets to go home, by way of the Dominican Republic; and 4) they get the Bird Rights to Moose a young PF/C.  

Note: Stuckey will have to become the starting PG.

Are you being funny Sebastian? While Anthony would really help our outside shooting percentages, we might lose even more games if Jennings is traded. This team is the worst defensive team in the league. Note that the announcers last night from Washington kept saying that the team's GM has a vision that the Wizards will win with their defense. So last night they attacked the Piston guards and made fools of them. Our guards are by far the worst set of guards on any NBA team. Stuckey is not a good player. He cannot play point guard. And he has another injury to add to the 100s of other injuries he has had. He has a shoulder injury that might bother him for the rest of the season. So how can you count on Stuckey to start at point guard which is a position he has never played well? We are left with KCP and Bynum. I would try KCP at point guard because he is the only pass first guard. It is not difficult to dribble the ball up the court and make the first pass. We do not have a play making guard on the team so why not use KCP at that position? Bynum is a pure circus act. it was a joke playing him at the 2 guard last night where Beal made a complete fool of him shooting over him and posting him at will. Detroit will never win anything with these guards even if Anthony came to us as a free agent. Anthony knows how bad our guards are so he wouldn't want to play for Detroit. The best thing that could happen now is to fire Joe Dumars who has created the worst guard combination in the entire history of Piston basketball. The owners must be pissed off now but they should have known what would happen last summer. Many of us were warning this would happen back then. Signing Bynum, keeping Stuckey and Charlie V, failing to draft Burke, and giving away a number one draft pick to the Bobcats to rid the team of Gordon has sealed the fate of the Detroit Pistons.

[FlyDog]

But in my opinion, this team sucks. Playoffs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwq7BYOnDrM

[Sebastian]

IF WE lose to the Wizards, WE will go down to the Wizards 2-1 with a fourth contest in D.C. on Jan. 18th.

I say Joe should get a "source" to get it into the media that Carmelo Anthony has demanded a trade.

WE offer the Knicks: Moose, B. Jennings, and Charlie V.; in return WE get Melo.

Why would the Joe do this deal with the Knicks and why would the Knicks accept, this offer?

Pistons: WE do the deal, because Joe has promised Gores that WE would make the playoffs and Joe is trying to keep his job and make his name good, again. Melo gives US a superstar-level player. A guy who commands a double team and a guy, who help sells some tickets. Also, Melo presence would help to define Smith's role, better.

Pistons fans will have to not worry themselves with Lala not wanting to live in any NBA city not named New York, LA, or Miami. If trading for Melo and consequently still playing during the last week of May, maybe just maybe, Melo will make a decision for himself and resigns with the Pistons. If, not WE just use his expiring contract to sign other free agents.

The Knicks do the this trade, because: 1) remember "sources" say Melo wants to be traded; 2) they get a PG with flash that New York City would like and he would like the City, additionally Jennings is signed at a modest amount and the Knicks need a point guard; 3) they get salary cap relief with Charlie V.'s contract and Charlie gets to go home, by way of the Dominican Republic; and 4) they get the Bird Rights to Moose a young PF/C.

Note: Stuckey will have to become the starting PG.

[Sebastian]

WE are damn, depressing to this point of the season (14-18); more than a 1/3 of the season has passed and OUR guys are 8-8 on the road and a terrible 6-10 at the Palace.

WE have given games away in the 4th to teams (i.e. Grizzlies, Pelicans), loss to teams that WE must beat (i.e. Bobcats, Magic), just plain ole whipped by some other teams (i.e. Warriors, T-wolves. Rockets), and taken a home-and-home smack down from the Hawks. (Will the same happen tomorrow night, against the Wizards?)

The only games, when OUR guys have played well are the Pacers and Heat wins and the wins against the Nets and Knicks, other than these wins WE have not looked good. OUR Pistons are a f@ckin' embarrassment after 32 games.

I’m curious. What will be the reaction by the players, coaches, administrative personnel, and fans if (or when) the Wizards defeat OUR Pistons, tomorrow night, in a 1/4 filled Palace?

Real talk, if WE take an "L" tomorrow night to the Wizards at the Palace: Something tangible must happen on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 to OUR current roster.

[Oracle]

IMO, while defense is obviously the highest priority for these guys, offense is almost as big a problem.

The shocking ineffectiveness of this jumbo frontcourt to defend the rim is blowing the collective NBA's mind!

Drummond is MIA as anybody and everybody violates his no fly zone regularly! In addition, players use his superior reaction time against him, turning him into a jumping jack that has to watch as players make layups while he's still in the air!

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm so sick of seeing Monroe react 2 seconds too late to anything going on in the paint! Hell, the guy's shot is off and he's heading down court when Monroe is just starting to contest the shot!

Josh has hinted at a "Problem" that hasn't been addressed....

"What's the real issue?

On being singled out, Smith said: “I’m not worried about it. Like I told y’all before, when you have adverse times, character is tested. Either we’ll come closer together and make it one team or use a scapegoat to get away from what’s really at hand.”

And what the real issue Smith is referring to, only the players and coaches know." - Josh Smith-Maurice Cheeks relationship bears watching after Piston's latest benching

Could it be Monroe? Monroe & Drummond? KCP? It appears that Josh is the scape goat, but after his last 2 performances, he's got little right to complain, since anybody he's talking about isn't doing too much different!

@Phillip - IMO, the only thing Rondo could do better than Jennings right now is to get into the grill of these dudes, and have the credibility to get away with it! Jennings doesn't have that level of street cred yet! So, yes, Rondo would probably work better in the short term!

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////         But that only addresses one wing, and it takes two wings to fly!
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Have you looked at the offense in the last two games? Playground ball is more organized! I'm sorry, but that's on Cheeks, and to his credit, he sat some asses that weren't performing, and that, IMO, is the first step to getting this sh!t straight!

Nobody respects a coach unless he can string up a few carcasses in the locker room, and Josh Smith is a huge carcass! That will get players attention, because nobody wants to be embarrassed in front of friends, family, and most of all, the rest of the NBA!

It's the equivalent of a public flogging... with your draws pulled down!

But if your offense isn't implemented and no defense is being played, a real coach has to do that, and taking down a rookie, just isn't enough!

So I'm giving Cheeks a pass for now because he did what he had to do to get his point across! Where it goes from here is anybody's guess!

[Phil-Good]

1. Gores. You said win now. This is what you get. A young team that's not ready to win. These boys are not ready!

2. Cheeks. If this is your guy, RIDE OR DIE WITH HIM! Let's see how this Josh Smith situation plays out. If Cheeks can deal with this issue and come out on top and Smith takes the next step, then Cheeks is the long term coach.

3. Smith and Greg Monroe. Center, Small Forward, Power Forward. WHO GIVES A S.H.I.T! Nobody gave A S.H.I.T when you beat the Pacers and the Heat. All three of you can play together. It's NO DEFENSE that's you all problem not WHO PLAY SF, PF, C, PG, SG, What the ****-EVER! Play harder, BOTH OF YOU.

4.Stuckey. GIT RID OF THIS GUY BEFORE HE GO DOWN With A MAJOR INJURE!! Keep saying it and I will keep on saying it. You can't depend on A guy Like Stuckey. Time to move on.

5. Jennings.....   He has made every effort to do what he has been asked to do. But I still would take Rondo if available.

6. Starting 2 Guard. Love KCP but he's A rookie. He not ready and that's cool. The Pistons need A 2-Guard Bad!! A do it all guy. A go to guy. A All Star. A shooter, A defender. A Leader.

7. Drummonds. Nice..Nice..Nice... Player but not ready to be The anchor on Defense that the Detroit Pistons have had on every championship team. Dennis Rodam and Ben Wallace. Drummonds will be added to that list one day but not today. He not ready.

8. Defense...Defense...Defense. If you defend you will win..win..win. Pistons will never win if they commit to defense 1 out of every 5 games. One day but not today. They not ready!

[merc]

Next person that talks about lack of offense is gonna get a cyber boot in the ass... this is all about no D.

[Oracle]

IMO, you can't blame Joe too much!

If you look at the big picture, he took some risks, and IMO, they were worth it!

The mission now is to fix the holes and make this team right again!

Wise was right about Moose, but not for the right reasons! Moose needs to be played at his proper position!

Some want Josh to move to PF, but Josh is an undersized PF, and with his weight loss, he just isn't a PF anymore!

It's time to get us a real PF, keep Josh where he is, and move Moose to the bench backing up Drummond!

Trade Stuckey by any means necessary before his value takes any more hits! Ditto Bynum!

Keep a close eye on Hollins, Cheeks is beginning to appear to be in over his head, although it's still too early to make that call with confidence!

BTW, we seriously need some backup guard help with dumping Bynum and the complete and total collapse of Chauncey!

I also have absolutely no idea what's going on with Josh! They need to put out an APB for his NUTS, because he hasn't shown any in the last two games!

[Oracle]

"For Cheeks, it was Kevin Johnson beating him repeatedly.  For Pistons president Joe Dumars, it happened one game when he knew where Stephon Marbury was going and still couldn't stop it.  For Billups, the realities of an aging player for whom the end is near are taking full effect.  "I've been where he's at, 37 and still trying to play, and could do some things, but couldn't do some things that I could do before," Cheeks said, adding that players -- especially guards -- "kind of know" when Father Time has won.  "We still have our reputation, and pretty much at that time -- for me, anyway -- that's pretty much all I had," Cheeks said.  "But we figure it out, in our minds.  First, one guy goes by us.  Then, another guy goes by us.  And we start looking at ourselves a little bit."" - Detroit Pistons embarrassed for second consecutive night, fall 106-82 to Washington Wizards

Good read on other players as well!

[Oracle]

Nothing matters!

Pistons playing in front of Nelson Mandela's grand daughters, when the Pistons was the first NBA team he ever saw play!

Playing in front of one of the best defensive big men in Pistons history, Big Ben!

Who gives a sh!t, they go out and refuse to play defense in honor of the fact that they refuse to play offense too!

What is Cheeks, a door knob?

[Oracle]

Nene blasted him in the face, may have broken the nose and possibly disrupted that dental surgery from hell!

Obviously he's out and likely done for the night at a minimum!


BTW, Josh Smith being punked big time for the 2nd game in a row!

Is it too late to get a refund on some of that moolah?

[Sissy1946]

Stink Bomb too fumigate this team now in effect, proceed at your own risk, also they are Chittin' themselves as we speak.

[Oracle]

Be grateful, because our coach could be Jason Kidd, and be happy, because we're NOT the Nets!

[Oracle]

The Larry Frank teams were more disciplined than this team, at least right now!

The Knight, Prince, Maxiell, & Monroe(at center) teams beat the Wizards like a drum every year and twice on leap years  just for fun!

Less talent, but right now, they appear better coached!

Stanky is out... again!

[Oracle]

Relapsing alcoholics!

Sometimes they look like a legitimate NBA team, then if you get a few drinks into them, you get the Orlando game... WTF!!!

[Oracle]

Who's coaching these guys?

They're completely disorganized on offense and defense!

WTF is going on here???

[cool breeze]

I was wondering why Cheeks sort of gave up in the second half.  My thought is that they had prepared for Washington tonight and Monday night.  They just blew off and did not prepare for Orlando.  They sat Billups...he doesn't play back to backs.  He will be available against Washington both nights b/c of Sunday off.  Cheeks played Bynum (20 min) a lot b/c he didn't want to exhaust Jennings (31) for tonight... Siva is not an option since he is in the D-Leauge.  

All Detroit starters sat with minutes in the 20s, expect for Jennings.  Orlando had all starters, but Nelson, in the 30s and Victor O had 30s.  

Washington may be a team we would fight for playoff spots for.  If it comes down to tie it would depend on the record against each other.  situaati

Any other thoughts?  

Go Stones good teams always try as hard as they can to win the first game in this type of situation. I think Mo Cheeks saw the writing on the wall and decided he had inferior players who had no chance of beating Orlando last night. So he tried other combinations that didn't work either.

First off, Affalo is a real quality 2 guard. He had his way very easily. At times 3 different guards tried to guard Affalo. KCP and Stuckey had no chance and he got the best of Singler but at least Kyle did make him work. Affalo has worked hard to develop post up moves and he can score against anyone now but it is especially easy against our guards who are the worst defenders in the league. And Affalo is a great defender who shut down every Piston 2 guard that played last night. If Jennings played fewer minutes it was because he was not sharing the basketball. He had no trust in any of his teammates and maybe that was justified based on how the other players moved without the basketball. If the game plan was to play only the left side of the court on offense then the coaching staff should be blamed but I know of no coach who would make up a game plan like that. I think you are correct relating saving one player for the other games and that lone player has to be Josh Smith. Piston basketball last night was real ugly and the thing that stood out with the Orlando announcers was the lack of will and energy given by many of the Detroit players. Orlando wanted to win that game and Detroit players did not match up well with their players. This is not the first time the same Piston players have laid an egg like this. Mo Cheeks has no idea which players will show up to play and also knows they have never learned to play the right way. Orlando had a good game plan and the game plan was to expose how horrible Piston guards really are. They had every answer for Stuckey's moves as do a lot of teams. They enjoyed allowing Jennings and Bynum to dribble around to find their own shots. They knew that Monroe is really slow and cannot defend. Maxiell and Affalo must have created their game plan. This is what Detroit will look like in the playoffs if they make the playoffs. Playoff teams always expose the other team's weaknesses. And Orlando is not a playoff team.

[Go Stones!]

I was wondering why Cheeks sort of gave up in the second half. My thought is that they had prepared for Washington tonight and Monday night. They just blew off and did not prepare for Orlando. They sat Billups...he doesn't play back to backs. He will be available against Washington both nights b/c of Sunday off. Cheeks played Bynum (20 min) a lot b/c he didn't want to exhaust Jennings (31) for tonight... Siva is not an option since he is in the D-Leauge.

All Detroit starters sat with minutes in the 20s, expect for Jennings. Orlando had all starters, but Nelson, in the 30s and Victor O had 30s.

Washington may be a team we would fight for playoff spots for. If it comes down to tie it would depend on the record against each other.

Any other thoughts?

[cool breeze]

I am tired of the comments being made to the press from Piston players who say, "we need to be ready to play". Any idiot knows that you have to prepare yourself to play and be thinking about it long before each game starts not after the game. When I run a marathon I don't say to myself at the 21 mile point, damn I wish that I had trained for this moment because it hurts like hell. No you think it through and train for those moments. Most of every success anyone has in any sport is caused from activity in your brain. If you are thinking about the Christmas presents you got before a basketball game, then there is a good chance you will suck in the actual game. These players act like Jr, High players and get away with it. The girls still love them because they are rich. The coaches don't mess with them because the players will tell their agents and then Joe Dumars will get a call. And you don't want Joe to get a call if you are a coach. He will sit back and watch you hang. The real truth is Joe Dumars adores soft players for some reason. That is why he needs to find another career if he wants to continue working. The players are a reflection of Joe Dumars not the coaching staffs that have been ridiculed for so long. It is all Joe Dumars and the fans better start waking up and demanding more from the owners. Otherwise, the seats will be empty even if Detroit makes the playoffs. How in hell can you get excited about this team???I am not letting the coaching staff off the hook either. They are a group of pussies as well. No coach should allow Greg Monroe on the floor for more than 8 minutes a game unless he decides to get his ass in shape and become more fundamentally sound and make an honest effort on the court. Drummond should have his minutes reduced as well if he dogs it like he did last night. And KCP is not an NBA starter. He needs to go to the bench but there are no guards who can defend as well as KCP unless you mention Singler who is not a real 2 guard. No guard can play defense at the 2 guard position as well as Kyle Singler. That is a fact and Singler is not real quick. Jennings, Bynum, Stuckey and KCP are not consistent defenders. If Stuckey is not making his forced shots, he plays inferior defense. He always has done that. How long does it take to know what a player is capable of doing? Everyone of the guards are simple minded one on one players who never help make their teammates better. If they start a game playing really bad, they can't seem to make an adjustment. If they are not making shots, they slack off and lose interest on defense. This is what a bad high school player does and the parents call late at night to say "why are you not playing my boy". I always said why don't you ask your son? Joe tells his coaching staff that he hates getting calls from players agents because he dislikes conflict. The players on the Piston team get away with playing the way they did last night. These simple minded players believe after such a showing that they lost because their shots were not falling. Everything is based on the shots falling or not falling. Nobody makes them accountable so they stay at the bottom level never exploring what they weak areas might be and then working on improving those weak areas. That is why Detroit has the worst rated defense in the league not to mention the free throw percentage ranking. Lack of interest and work ethic is the reason why this team is last in those categories. How about DO THE RIGHT THING as they say in the Rangers? Be brave and have courage Piston players. Don't do your job like Joe Dumars.

[cool breeze]

The man Afflalo is!

Afflalo really impressed me last night!

He's so confident and smooth, and the way he dismantled KCP was a thing of beauty!

On draft night, I said that Afflalo was going to be the better player than Stuckey, only going on what I'd seen of Afflalo in the final 4's and knowing the strength of his conference. A wild guess, but pedigree sometimes matters!

On another subject, I didn't know this about Andrew Bynum.

"In his first seven NBA seasons, when he was drafted out of high school by the Los Angeles Lakers, Bynum was disobedient, dismissive -- yes, even under the Zen master Phil Jackson -- and imploded when Mike Brown coached him for a season there. Then, surprisingly, the Cavs thought he'd be a good risk with Brown running the show again. 

Wrong. Bynum's track record speaks for itself. Remember, after the Lakers won their second consecutive championship in 2010, Bynum delayed off-season surgery so he could go to the World Cup in South Africa. That resulted in Bynum missing the start of the season, the Lakers getting off to a mediocre start and contributed to their failed chance to three-peat. That season culminated with Bynum's clothesline of J.J. Barea in Game 4 of their 2011 playoffs series, when the Dallas Mavericks swept the Lakers en route to their first championship.

The following year, Brown replaced Jackson and Bynum was benched for shooting a three-pointer in a game. He was unapologetic about it afterward -- just as he was about blowing off surgery to go to the World Cup -- and said he'd do it again. Bynum then blew off a meeting with Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak. And in his only season as an All-Star in 2012, Bynum, who craved more attention playing in Kobe Bryant's shadow, didn't seem to want to be there in Orlando. He was about to become a free agent and was the subject of trade rumors. Instead of being savvy about it, he declared he didn't want to play for certain teams, and didn't hesitate to name them, because "they suck."" - Don't even think about Andrew Bynum in Washington

Oracle it was insane that Affalo dropped as low as he did in that draft below Stuckey. This is why it is foolish to try to make any sense out of the way the so called experts rate college players. Most of the people who rate players do not do much of any homework. Any PAC10 coach at the time Affalo went into the draft would have said this guy is a sure thing to be the man he is today. On the other hand, Stuckey, who was not a really good college player and had the same skill set he has today should have been a huge gamble for any NBA team. He didn't play against the good college players or quality teams in college. He was good at dribbling coast to coast and making layups. And don't forget the combine which is where Joe Dumars has gone wrong so many times. If you haven't made up your mind about players in the draft before the combine, then you should be fired if you are in charge of an NBA team. You should already know who has the best chance of success by looking at the player's past character, work ethic and actual performance. If you did that then Affalo would have been drafted in the top 5 of the draft. He killed every PAC10 team in many ways and always sacrificed himself for the good of the team and did everything his coaches requested from him. Does any of these GMs do any work at all themselves? Do they just trust the scouts? But then when Joe Dumars had the opportunity to actually see Affalo play defense and make the right pass instead of playing selfishly, he didn't like Affalo's game but instead saw something special in Stuckey that most experts didn't see. Stuckey is not going to get any better. This is it and he is hurt again with a re occurring shoulder injury. Every season it is something. But I see a lot of flaws in Stuckey's game. He is not a good passer and does not concentrate enough on defense. Meanwhile, Affalo is one of the best defenders in the NBA. I would trade Monroe in a heart beat to obtain Affalo. But Joe doesn't like guys like Affalo. We are stuck with Joe Dumars and his view of the way he thinks the game should be played. Do the owners see it Joe's way? They would have to be idiots if they did. This team has guards a coach can never trust. They have a lazy ass power forward who is making over 8 Million dollars a year in Charlie V who has no business wearing a NBA uniform. And we have no number one draft pick because Joe signed another guard you can't trust in Ben Gordon. Everything points to Joe Dumars as the reason why this team still has players no other team is interested in. Only Joe likes them. The fans don't.

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