Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

If this is true than I will back off my idea of signing Maxiell and Bynum to new contracts to match them up with Charlie V and Stuckey as starters to insure we get to keep our number one pick in 2014. Knight is the point guard with Siva and English backing him up. Remember English played that position a bit towards the end of last season and I thought he looked OK. Stand pat with our current players and Smith and pick up another good player as the season moves forward.

Don, I'm back to deep breathing, and have great respect for Joe's eager stand to acquire Smith, a player I personally coveted. Now that we've gotten that done, how about Matt Barnes, and give Stuckey's ass away for draft picks? I think that Barnes is a better asset than Stuckey and he'll come cheaper than $8.5 million for one year (we could probably get him for two years at that amount!).

dX you were calling for Smith to become a Piston way back last winter. Now it has happened. Things looked so bleak until this great news. Cleveland is signing Jack which is a guy who could have helped the Pistons. Barnes is a tough guy and would be a nice fit on this new Piston team. Maybe Stuckey and Charlie V will bring in another key player who knows but if not, draft picks next summer will be valuable. GREAT NEWS! Good job selling the Pistons Joe Dumars! I am closing the Piston history book for now.

[Oracle]

This adds some chapter's to Joe's story.  Not optimal, but better than the alternative.  This will be interesting.  Didn't he average 4.2 asssists last year?  That passing ability will be real valuable here.

I couldn't have said it better Sparma!

No, it's not optimal, Smith isn't a perfect fit, but between Drummond & Smith, the athletic meter is flat out BUSTED!

I REALLY like our chances of making a lot of noise in the east!

[Oracle]

"Brandon Knight isn't exactly a pass-first point guard, but having someone like Smith to make ball movement crisper should allow Knight to work off the ball more effectively.

Recently drafted first-rounder Kentavious Caldwell-Pope provides prototypical size at shooting guard, making the Pistons' future starting five flat-out scary." - Josh Smith Signing Bolsters Detroit Pistons' Playoff Hopes


Now that I think of it, guard play may not be that big of a problem as between Monroe, Durmmond & Smith, if they aren't lobbing to each other, they're posting up Joe Scrub every trip down the court(BTW, most players look like scrubs next to that front court)!

This is some awesome stuff if Cheeks(an ex Philly coach like LB) can coach them right!

It didn't work with Sheed(who we also got from Atlanta) right out of the box, and it took almost a half a season of LB tinkering to get what he wanted, but once it worked BOOM... ass kick time!

I hope I'm not giving myself away, but I LOVE this, and I can't wait to see the next shoe drop!

BTW, here is something I didn't know:

"If Detroit wants to turn this offseason into an A-plus they would pick up the phone and call Boston. Smith and Rajon Rondo have had interest in playing together in the past. If the Pistons could pull this off, watch out." - NBA Free Agency: Josh Smith Signs Near Max Deal With Detroit

[Sparma]

This adds some chapter's to Joe's story. Not optimal, but better than the alternative. This will be interesting. Didn't he average 4.2 asssists last year? That passing ability will be real valuable here.

[Oracle]

Effing Josh Smith is in the fold?????

I may have been associating with a bunch of Disney Characters for the last 4 days, but I know WTF this means, and it means that one Joe Dumars FINALLY didn't get his lunch taken this time!

Playoff? Hell, ink us in! That's no longer a question worth talking about, it's what round we may lose in!

We've got the bigs to be a real wild card in the playoffs, and if we can get the guard play to match the bigs, ALL bets are off!

This is a GREAT way to come home because I've been following you guys, but I didn't feel like typing on the phone, and I've got to tell ya, I was one sad camper when Joe didn't seem to know has ass from a doughnut hole!

Great news all around, I've got some catching up to do!

[Sebastian]

Josh needs to bring the same numbers that he offered, last season, and pretty much what he has done during the most recent three seasons (17.5 points, 8.4 rebounds and 4.2 assists).

But the new Piston has to improve on his jumper, decision-making, and free throw shooting.

Make no mistake about it, I am happy that Joe was able to pull this signing off.

DETROIT BASKETBALL!!!!

[Sebastian]

I wonder what jersey number OUR new SF/PF will wear. I say offer him the #8, since his Hawks #5 will be worn by OUR new SG, KCP.



There should be no shame in offering J-Smoove the #8. The number eight was most recently worn by part-time PG, Jose Calderon and despised Ben G., not to mention last season's training camp third string PG, Johnny Flynn.

WE all know, there ain't no shame in Joe Dumar's number issuing game. He has allowed Moose to wear #10. (I wish Moose would change to #19.) How many times has the #1 been passed around, since Chauncey was traded (Iverson, McGrady, and Dre Drummond). Grant Hill's number is sometimes seen, when Jerebko takes his warm-ups off. And, I know folks are still upset that my boy, Stuckey continues to wear Big Ben's #3.

My vote is that J-Smoove gets to wear #8. What number do my Pistons Pals think J-Smoove should wear?

[Sebastian]

Joe needs to awake from his Rip Van Winkle slumber and get his ass back to work.

Here's what he should do:

1- Get Ujiri back on the phone, offer a package of Charlie V., B. Knight, and Singler for Rudy Gay.
Why you think Toronto wants anything to do with Charlie V? What's wrong with Jerebko and Stuckey? This is why Joe can't get anything done!
2- Go after Brandon Jennings hard. Offer him a deal that the Bucks will refuse to match; something like $11 million for 4 years.
I'm okay with Jennings, but $14 million for 4 is more likely to get it done. If the trade is successful, we've still got to spend about $16 million per.
Then WE roll with:

PG- B. Jennings/Stuckey/Silva
SG- KCP/Middleton/English
SF- Rudy/Jerebko
PF- Moose/T. Mitchell
C- Dre Drummond/the Ukraine

Stuckey (6th man) will have to play his ass off, as he seeks his next contract. Jerebko will have to improve. KCP and Tony Mitchell will have to be a little better than advertised. Moose will have to play some key minutes in the Center position, when Dre is not on the floor.
This is the type favoritism and entitlement that has FA's avoiding the Pistons like the plague; what's so special about Stuckey that he should be allowed to play for another contract? He can't shoot, can't distribute, can't see the developing plays, and is not an alpha scorer. Whassup?
This is the best that I can come up with, now Joe wake your ass up.

Sebastian, have you given up on Smith?

Yo, DX, I must admit that I had given up on the possibility that Joe would be able to sign J-Smoove. That pimp, Daryl Morey, was scheming to sign Josh and I just didn't have the confidence in Joe that he would be able to secure the acquisition of possibly the most dynamic free agent on the market.

Joe did it! - http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--josh-smith-agrees-to--56-million-deal-with-pistons-190432543.html.

OUR front line is set: Josh, Moose, and Dre makes for the most flexible front line in the League.

It is time to give it up to Joe. 

He hired the coach that he wanted (Mo'). He drafted the players that he wanted (KCP, T. Mitch, and Siva), who WE will get the chance to see starting tomorrow in Summer League play.

Joe made all of these moves without ever showing his hand. Damn, I do believe that Joe is back. Forgive me for losing faith in you Joe. 

DX, and all my other Pistons Pals, WE may have to begin having comfort in what Stuckey does well. There is no shame in having Stuckey as the starting PG and B. Knight bringing the heat off the bench. Or, if Mo' would like to start B. Knight and have Stuckey come off, either way, along with the addition of KCP, OUR backcourt is set like OUR front court is set.

PG- Stuckey/B. Knight/Siva
SG- KCP/Singler/Middleton
SF- J-Smoove/Jerebko
PF- Moose/T. Mitch/Charlie V.
C- Dre Drummond/the Ukraine

Trust me, Pistons Pals, if this is the line-up that starts Training Camp and tips it off in the fall, this will be a 50+ win team; a fourth seed in the East and defensive juggernaut.

I like this squad. 

[deusXango]

If this is true than I will back off my idea of signing Maxiell and Bynum to new contracts to match them up with Charlie V and Stuckey as starters to insure we get to keep our number one pick in 2014. Knight is the point guard with Siva and English backing him up. Remember English played that position a bit towards the end of last season and I thought he looked OK. Stand pat with our current players and Smith and pick up another good player as the season moves forward.

Don, I'm back to deep breathing, and have great respect for Joe's eager stand to acquire Smith, a player I personally coveted. Now that we've gotten that done, how about Matt Barnes, and give Stuckey's ass away for draft picks? I think that Barnes is a better asset than Stuckey and he'll come cheaper than $8.5 million for one year (we could probably get him for two years at that amount!).

[Phil-Good]

Thanks GOD!! We got somebody!!!!

Now A trade or two and we back in business!!

[deusXango]

Let's not toss it all on Joe Dumars shoulders that Michigan sucks!! Nobody wants to move they family to this state. Let's be crystal clear about the facts of the matter.

With that being said Joe better pull A rabbit out his ass and make something happen because it's not looking good right now.

Where you live and where you earn millions of dollars are two different things, when it comes to the comfort of your family. Six months out of the year you're all over the map anyway, so don't start pumping the brakes on Joe.

Phillip, I just looked to my right and see that Josh has signed with Detroit, so forgive my ignorance, pleaseeee?

[cool breeze]

If this is true than I will back off my idea of signing Maxiell and Bynum to new contracts to match them up with Charlie V and Stuckey as starters to insure we get to keep our number one pick in 2014. Knight is the point guard with Siva and English backing him up. Remember English played that position a bit towards the end of last season and I thought he looked OK. Stand pat with our current players and Smith and pick up another good player as the season moves forward.

[cool breeze]

Let's not toss it all on Joe Dumars shoulders that Michigan sucks!! Nobody wants to move they family to this state. Let's be crystal clear about the facts of the matter.

With that being said Joe better pull A rabbit out his ass and make something happen because it's not looking good right now.

So it is the State of Michigan that must be responsible now. Michigan is a beautiful state. Detroit has a soft team and good players do not want the pressure of trying to reverse the kind of team Joe Dumars created. And this is not the fault of Monroe, Drummond, Knight, Singler, Middleton, English or KCP. If you ever have the opportunity of watching PASS and listen to the opposing team's announcers you get the true picture of how the rest of the world views the Pistons. Players on the other teams know that Dumars broke up a tough team by not only trading Billups but giving away all of the credible defenders on the team. He did that to protect guys like Stuckey, Daye, Gordon and Bynum. Before Knight arrived it was laughable as to how bad the guards were on defense. Joe's thought was it is better to put points on the board with good offensive players than it is to play 2 way players. Damn but that didn't work either because Joe's picks couldn't score any better than they could defend. Of course Joe liked Maxiell and didn't want to disrupt Jason's run as the starting power forward and he for sure didn't want Charlie V sitting on the bench after spending so much money on him. Just take a look at the players that Dumars signed and how long they were allowed to stay in Piston uniforms. Let's see the free agents must feel about the same way the Piston fans feel about their team. That is why the seats are empty at the Palace a place where Detroit once lead the NBA in attendance. It doesn't bother me that no free agents wanted to come to Detroit. It bothers me that Dumars passed on Burke in this last draft and has given away our number one draft pick in 2014. It might be a good thing to lose more than any other NBA team next season so as to keep that number one pick. The formula to win the number one overall pick would be to force Charlie V and Stuckey to play at least 36 minutes per game throughout the season. And Dumars needs to sign Bynum and Maxiell to new one year contracts and play them the same amount of minutes as Stuckey and Charlie. Then we will be in good shape going into the 2015 season.

[Phil-Good]

Let's not toss it all on Joe Dumars shoulders that Michigan sucks!! Nobody wants to move they family to this state. Let's be crystal clear about the facts of the matter.

With that being said Joe better pull A rabbit out his ass and make something happen because it's not looking good right now.

[deusXango]

Joe needs to awake from his Rip Van Winkle slumber and get his ass back to work.

Here's what he should do:

1- Get Ujiri back on the phone, offer a package of Charlie V., B. Knight, and Singler for Rudy Gay.
Why you think Toronto wants anything to do with Charlie V? What's wrong with Jerebko and Stuckey? This is why Joe can't get anything done!
2- Go after Brandon Jennings hard. Offer him a deal that the Bucks will refuse to match; something like $11 million for 4 years.
I'm okay with Jennings, but $14 million for 4 is more likely to get it done. If the trade is successful, we've still got to spend about $16 million per.
Then WE roll with:

PG- B. Jennings/Stuckey/Silva
SG- KCP/Middleton/English
SF- Rudy/Jerebko
PF- Moose/T. Mitchell
C- Dre Drummond/the Ukraine

Stuckey (6th man) will have to play his ass off, as he seeks his next contract. Jerebko will have to improve. KCP and Tony Mitchell will have to be a little better than advertised. Moose will have to play some key minutes in the Center position, when Dre is not on the floor.
This is the type favoritism and entitlement that has FA's avoiding the Pistons like the plague; what's so special about Stuckey that he should be allowed to play for another contract? He can't shoot, can't distribute, can't see the developing plays, and is not an alpha scorer. Whassup?
This is the best that I can come up with, now Joe wake your ass up.

Sebastian, have you given up on Smith?

[Sebastian]

Joe needs to awake from his Rip Van Winkle slumber and get his ass back to work.

Here's what he should do:

1- Get Ujiri back on the phone, offer a package of Charlie V., B. Knight, and Singler for Rudy Gay.

2- Go after Brandon Jennings hard. Offer him a deal that the Bucks will refuse to match; something like $11 million for 4 years.

Then WE roll with:

PG- B. Jennings/Stuckey/Silva
SG- KCP/Middleton/English
SF- Rudy/Jerebko
PF- Moose/T. Mitchell
C- Dre Drummond/the Ukraine

Stuckey (6th man) will have to play his ass off, as he seeks his next contract. Jerebko will have to improve. KCP and Tony Mitchell will have to be a little better than advertised. Moose will have to play some key minutes in the Center position, when Dre is not on the floor.

This is the best that I can come up with, now Joe wake your ass up.

[deusXango]

Joe has stockpiled money to sign FA's; he has two of the most promising big men in the league, as an incentive for players to come here. This is a storied franchise, with an array of championships (from EC to world). In the last six years, Joe Dumars has made the Detroit Pistons the laughing stock of the NBA; every GM, and every player knows this. There are those who live in the belly of the monster, with tentacles of ridiculousness, that reach out over the league, who may find it hard to digest what I believe to be fact; Joe has replaced Elgin Baylor as the weakest minded GM in professional basketball. Baylor was a great player also, but as an executive, he sucked and his team suffered!!!

I'm not going to go back as far as the drafting of Darko, but rather I'll begin with the make up call; Rodney Stuckey. If Darko was a bad call, because we had so many quality big men at the time, then what was Stuckey, a combo guard of all things, considered by open minds? Not a pure PG to be groomed to replace Chauncey; not a skilled SG to be groomed to replace Hamilton, but a Combo guard to be TRANSFORMED into a PG! He was drafted just outside the lottery from that hotbed of basketball talent, Eastern Washington. On his arrival, Joe got fed up with the team that made his reputation as a winning GM, and announced that "there were no sacred cows;" other than Stuckey, and from that day until this, he's been treated that way.

It's not so much that Chauncey was traded, or why, but how he was traded! It had all the earmarks of a coldblooded stab in the back. The timing of the trade sucked, and Stuckey wasn't ready to take over the team then anymore than he is now! Since that ill-fated day, every player in the NBA has had an opportunity to test his mettle on the court, and in spite of what his fans point out as indicators of greatness, real competitors know he ain't all that, and no top tier talents want to line their skill set up behind his (because it's known he and Joe feels he "must have the ball in his hands.") Only the worst of the worse want to be paid for mediocre play, and that's what you got, lined up behind Stuckey as the best player on the team; I forgot to mention that he's the only designated starter, somewhere, in the lineup. Chauncey was known, respected by his peers, and well liked; who is Stuckey, outside of Detroit, and how does his peers feel about him? Look at the MOVEMENT since Monday, in the NBA!!

The coaches that were brought in were puppets of Joe D, and every one that didn't know it then, know it now. From the premature firing of Flip Saunders, to the foot dragging dismissal of Lil' Larry, every coach has had marching orders to feature Stuckey, the new face of the franchise, as the offensive PG of the future (traditional PG's were things of the past; we needed a big, strong, fast, mindless brute of a PG). No experience Michael Curry was brought in to coach for one season, but to his credit, he hasn't spoken to Joe (his good buddy) since his untimely dismissal. Kuester was a farce, but he tried everything under the sun to make a "Frankenstein" of a roster work. Whether Lil' Larry was Joe's choice or not, he was not the coach we needed, but then coaches didn't make Dave Bing, Eddie Miles, Kevin Porter, John Mengelt, Eric Money, "Bubbles" Hawkins, Chauncey Billips, Rip Hamilton, or Aaron Afflalo who they were...these players put in the necessary work to excel. FA's look at this as being a place that has a culture of laziness, with the practice of favoritism ruling the day.

Whatever Joe told Josh Smith in those five hours they spent together, it didn't open his nose, because he remains unsigned by Detroit, and now that Howard has gone to Houston, I expect Smith to follow as soon as the way is made. Big time, smart ass, stand pat, Joe Dumars is now faced with kicking through the scraps of NBA players; poor thing. Just what Gores deserves. We've, as a fan base, turned our noses up at a variety of things, because they didn't suit our fancy, like Laimbeer as coach (he would probably be a better GM), firing Flip Saunders (who is now actually a GM), offering OKC Stuckey for Harden when it would have gotten the deal done (now we'd have to empty our roster to smell Harden's drawers), holding onto a 7' 0" 190 lb. non-standout player (Austin Daye) for no good reason, and vilifying Josh Smith, who now may be our only hope of redemption.

We were a team of combo guards/SG's and tweener forwards for much too long, and today we spend too much time speculating on trade ideas for Greg Monroe, who was the first big man of any worth (Big Ben was a shadow of himself when he returned to the Pistons; by the way, we never paid him sh!t for his services over the years. Karen Davidson?) we had in a long time. We're still in the experimental phase of developing a combo guard into a PG (Knight is the latest combo), too stubborn to draft a real PG, even if the best in the country is staring us in the face. Giving Josh Smith a max deal is a bargain.

[Murph]

All the evidence is in. It's becoming clear that all the success that Joe was supposed to have had in the early part of his GM career is probably due to Bill Davidson himself. As long as Joe had Bill Davidson experience and wisdom to draw on, he was able to make good transactions.

However, once Davidson became ill and stopped being able to attend games, and stopped being able to consult with Joe on a daily basis, Joe started to screw up nearly every single move he made.

Joe has made virtually no good transactions...without the help of Davidson.

[Murph]

So this is kind of ironic isn't it?  Now Joe is in a fix because he has a ton of cap space, and can't attract a single free agent to spend it on.  It looks as if no free agent wants to try to play for Joe and his revolving door of  bad coaches.  No free agent wants to sign, and then get blamed when the team under-performs.

Which makes the Ben Gordon trade look even more absurd.  Joe actually gave up a 1st round draft choice in one of the best drafts in years, in order to dump Gordon, in order to pile up cap space...that he can't spend on ANYONE.  Obviously, Joe would have been much better off with Gordon, his salary...and OUR 1ST ROUND DRAFT CHOICE!!!

This situation is beyond moronic.  This situation, along with passing on Burke is going to be the very last F-ups Joe is going to be allowed to make.  Gores is a patient man, but even Gores isn't going to tolerate situations like this any longer.

[Phil-Good]

Sebastian, so when is that deadline where you have to spend that money? I don't see the Pistons moving Moose in any situation at all.

Also I don't get what Golden State is doing. Barns..SF...Curry PG, Klay..SG, D.Lee PF/Center, Who is the Power Forward and what position will Iggy play?? Power Forward or Center??

So is Barns on the block? If so Detroit better get in the grove??

But Joe is in trouble. All this cap money and nobody to spend it on. SAD situation..... I'm looking around the league. The Hornets/Bobcats Henderson is still out there. Thad Young and Evan Turner could be had in A trade. T.Arize in Washington, Ed Davis from Memphis, E.Gordon from N.O. Afflalo from Orlando, Wilson Chandler, J.Lamb from OK City.. Williams from Minnesota.

All and all it's looking bad right now. Lucky for Joe he has 3 months before the season kicks off. He better make something happen.

[Sebastian]

I'm sure Joe is on the phones working them but it looks like things are not moving well. I'm not sure about this new collective agreement but from with I do understand teams have to spend 90% of the cap money they have available????

Somebody help me out with this because I'm not sure. But if that's true Joe and the Pistons are in trouble..

Yes, Philip, Joe is going to have to pull some serious strings. The Pistons roster is currently at $34,410,525 (not including KCP ~$2.85 million and the probable signings of second round picks Tony Mitchell and Peyton Siva, which together will not be close to $1.25 million). The 2013-14 estimated salary cap is projected to $58,500,000. Teams have to reach .90% or $52,650,000.

So, if KCP, Mitchell, and Siva are included then the Pistons are then at ~$38,520,525 or $14,125,000 beloc the team cap minimum.

Over paying some FA crumbs will not solve the economic delimma that the Pistons are faced with. If Josh Smith doesn't sign with the Pistons, I suspect that Moose will have to be sacraficed in a trade. An exchange like Moose for Aldridge will have to be the sort of trade that will have to occur.

References:
Pistons current team salary - http://hoopshype.com/salaries/detroit.htm

Project 2013-2014 Salary Cap -http://fansided.com/2013/06/03/projected-nba-salary-cap-and-luxury-tax-for-2013-14-season-announced/

[Phil-Good]

I'm sure Joe is on the phones working them but it looks like things are not moving well. I'm not sure about this new collective agreement but from with I do understand teams have to spend 90% of the cap money they have available????

Somebody help me out with this because I'm not sure. But if that's true Joe and the Pistons are in trouble..

[deusXango]

Joe, just give the man whatever the hell he wants, and continue to say, "damn the fans!!!"

[Sebastian]

Joe may as well cancel Christmas, because all the toys have been sold. 

[Sebastian]

You can take Milsap off the FA board. He has agreed to sign a two year deal ($19 million) with Hawks. Earlier Aminu agreed to a one year deal ($3.7 million) with the Pelicans. Others have tendered agreements, today, Mayo, Calderon, Iggy, you name them.

Every other team is wheeling and dealing and Joe is pulling a Rip Van Winkle, since Monday morning at 12:01 AM, after supposedly meeting with Josh Smith.

Is Joe even still living?

Dam(n)!!!

[Sponsored content]