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Not Talented enough... Amazing!

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:15 pm

merc wrote:I don't think the talent is there yet... or the talent may be close to competing but they are too green... next year all excuses are out the window... I hope to not use the "T" word for another 10 years... give the Cats their pick and bring in some mature talent.

Without a doubt this team should have been a 7th or 8th seed! Does anyone believe this team before the trade wasn't better than the Bucks, or even argably Boston?

If you don't see that the talent stacks up with those teams, then you're amazingly selling this team short!

Again, those that can't find a way to see how Frank's coaching hurts this team, by default blame the players, couching it in a "both are to blame" argument that actually deflects the true blame. All blame is not equal and some problems are generated by previous action!

Amazingly, looking at that stretch where we were almost DOMINANT with our starting lineup holding their own and the 2nd unit with Stuckey/Bynum, Drummond, CV, Daye, and filler SF, and not seeing how Frank blew that up instead of nurturing it is shocking!

However, when basketball minds across the spectrum keep making the same comments that a lot of us here have seen close up, I think the facts are clear!
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Oracle wrote:
merc wrote:I don't think the talent is there yet... or the talent may be close to competing but they are too green... next year all excuses are out the window... I hope to not use the "T" word for another 10 years... give the Cats their pick and bring in some mature talent.

Without a doubt this team should have been a 7th or 8th seed! Does anyone believe this team before the trade wasn't better than the Bucks, or even argably Boston?

If you don't see that the talent stacks up with those teams, then you're amazingly selling this team short!

Again, those that can't find a way to see how Frank's coaching hurts this team, by default blame the players, couching it in a "both are to blame" argument that actually deflects the true blame. All blame is not equal and some problems are generated by previous action!

Amazingly, looking at that stretch where we were almost DOMINANT with our starting lineup holding their own and the 2nd unit with Stuckey/Bynum, Drummond, CV, Daye, and filler SF, and not seeing how Frank blew that up instead of nurturing it is shocking!

However, when basketball minds across the spectrum keep making the same comments that a lot of us here have seen close up, I think the facts are clear!

We were 7-21 before that 9 games stretch were we won 7 of those 9 games and it look like a flicker of hope was there but keep in mind 4 of those 7 wins were against sub .500 teams, Sure they beat the Heat and played 2 tough games against the Hawks, but beating the Wizards twicw, Kings and Bucks didn't makes us a 7th or 8th seed. I think it was a lucky stretch of games for us nothing more.
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ANDRE DRUMMOND

Post  deusXango on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:32 pm

This ain't Greg Oden, or Andrew Bynum, or Omeka Okafor, or JaVale McGee we've been blessed with but, a real big man to build around; every player on the Pistons roster at seasons end should be considered for trade (except Kravtsov), if the right deal could be made. If Dumars can re-sign Calderon he would be the only FA on this team I'd bring back but, defense is not his strong suit; we need defensive players to play with Drummond, and Calderon is the only non-defensive player I'd tolerate (because of his extraordinary ability to facilitate an offense). I'm on record with my dream list of players (Oladipo, Porter Jr., and Josh Smith, to which I add Tony Allen), and my list of players who I'd be disappointed to see return (Bynum, Maggette, and Maxiell), because IMHO they'd only hold back the teams growth with Drummond as the unchallenged "man."

If we shouldn't (and probably won't) get another lottery pick, Oladipo is the best fit for Drummond on this team going forward...Joe Dumars must work extra hard to sign Calderon and Smith as FA's if he doesn't fire Lil' Larry and make a top shelf, respected, coaching hire before the signing period begins. The consequences of not making a coaching change will be overpaying for mediocre talent, and years of bottom feeding ahead for the Pistons. Derrick Williams or Wilson Chandler would patch the "hole" left by Prince's absence, and give us a completely revamped, defensive frontline, and Oladipo would remove the burden placed on them by playing sound defense on the perimeter. These few players would make a difference playing with Drummond that's bigger than any who've played with Monroe leading this team. Drummond, Smith, and Oladipo are potential all defensive team players who should start for us, and Kravstov and Allen can be 2nd unit defensive stoppers. It's not world champions we're talking but, it's a direction and philosophy we can see, and that's something that's been missing for far too long.
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Wise

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:01 pm

One common theme in all of your posts is an amazing ability to find ways to lose, and not win!

It's only luck if you can't make something out of it!
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If you support this coach, explain this...

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:45 pm

On day one he said that this team would hang its hat on defense!

WTF happened to that proclaimation?

A team that is good defensively, or even pretends to be good, rarely gets blown out!
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SHABAZZ MUHAMMAD

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:53 pm

deusXango wrote:Not sold on this young man for us with a lottery pick; 19 years old with weight and conditioning problems? A one dimensional game? We need two lottery picks and he wouldn't be one of them...that's just me talking.

DX, I haven't really seen any extensive minutes of this kid, but that Bleacher article coupled with what Don said shows this kid as hardly a one dimensional player!

"First, he plays with a lot of basketball intelligence. Not since former Piston Richard Hamilton was in his prime have I seen a primary perimeter scorer move around so much without the ball.

He is constantly in motion, seamlessly moving in and out of screens and popping up in positions to make offensive plays.

However, his movement looks a lot more natural than most players out there. He essentially floats around the court, but always with purpose.

What separates him already from Hamilton is his range."
- Bleacher

Then they go on to say,

"Another thing that sets him apart from other players his age is his body. This is a young man that is built to play professional basketball. He has long arms, a thick chest and a strong base to his frame.

He is going to be able to absorb contact at the next level and likely still finish strong. In this sense he calls to mind Rodney Stuckey. However, he shows the ability to finish quite a bit better than Stuckey and with his diverse offensive repertoire, teams won't be able to cheap him.

Everyone knows Stuckey is going to the hoop because he can't consistently do anything else; Muhammad can score in a number of ways so there won't be that cushion.

Muhammad also has a strong mid-range game, showing the ability to score from anywhere on the court. Because he moves so well without the ball, he can float to soft spots in the zone if he encounters that defense.

Muhammad also has a nice post-up game, though he still needs to work on his baby hook shot, a weapon that he could use against smaller defenders like Tayshaun Prince has been doing for a decade."
- Bleacher
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Speaking of Defense...

Post  Oracle on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:03 am

You can't make this stuff up!

"Frank bemoaned the lack of defense during the West Coast swing, where the Pistons gave up 112 points a night. He was reminded that there weren't any quick fixes, just as Nets point guard Deron Williams is in the process of reminding the NBA how great he can be.

Williams repeatedly broke down Jose Calderon in the first quarter with ankle-breaking crossovers and step-back jumpers, until Calderon took a seat on the bench with flu-like symptoms. The Pistons were already without Brandon Knight (left ankle) and Andre Drummond (back), although Frank hinted Drummond could return soon"
- DetNews

In that short span, 3 things jumped out at me!

1. Frank bemoaning lack of defense under Hill, and upon his return, it gets even worse! Seriously, if you watched the game, you'll see a rudderless team! Nobody seems to know what in the world their assignments are... i.e. they appear coachless!

2. I'd have flu like symptoms if DWill was abusing me like I wasn't even on the court too! Yikes, that was UGLY!

3. Perhaps the only thing that can add a little excitement to the fading season is the possible return of Drummond, which Frank mentioned was possible!

That is all!
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Move over BK7, there's a new dunk of the year!

Post  Oracle on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:25 am

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KARMA

Post  deusXango on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:56 am

"You reap what you sow." Where do I start with the sad seeds sown that we're tasting the bitter fruits of today? What was first? Was it the proclamation that it was open competition for all positions? "There are no incumbants...if a player wants a job, all he has to do is go out and take it," said Lil' Larry. "We're going to establish a culture of defense; I believe in defense first." Where's the evidence of that? A team of young players is basically a collection of professional students who need to be taught the right way, not blamed for not going the right way. We have a coach who's never done anything wrong (at least he's never openly admitted to it), it's the world around him that's screwed up! Is he talking sh!t about the return of a less than 20 minute a night player (in his estimation) being the savior of what's left of the season? If we won everyone of our remaining games, doesn't this man realize it would do more harm than good? "We want to end the season on a winning note," only to stumble out of the gate next year by losing how many games in a row?

I posted at the beginning of the season that the competition at PF wasn't between Maxiell and Drummond but, Monroe and Maxiell, and Monroe was hands down the best PF we had! I stated that Drummond (after watching him play a few games) was the best center we had, and it had nothing to do with him being a lottery pick; he should have been starting at center because he was a lottery pick and Monroe had worked out extensively on his PF game over the summer, plus the coaching staff couldn't all have missed the talent in Drummond. Why didn't Lil' Larry start him with Monroe and play him those paltry 20-25 minuutes a game? Not only didn't Drummond get 25 minutes a game, he got almost zero minutes with Monroe; these two were to be our bigs of the future, standing aside for Maxiell, a career role player on the last year of his contract with us. Whoever was responsible for that call, be it Lil' Larry or Fat Joe, they should catch a "hot one" in the head!! Maxiell the incumbant, per Lil' Larry; there was no open competition between Maxiell and Monroe for the starting PF spot. If anyone believes that Maxiell would have honestly won that spot, then we should re-sign him and trade Monroe for whatever we can get.

Who were the defensive players in the starting lineup? Sans Drummond, where was the "D" in the 2nd unit? Why was a 6' 6" player starting (who was not a Charles Barkley) and a 6' 10", 285 lb. player who runs like the wind, and jumps out of the gym, with reflexes and instincts that can't be matched by any big man on the team, coming off the bench, and the player with skills closest to him is sitting in street clothes? The absence of these players was excepted, and every player on the team was thrown under the bus but that 6' 6" player, when things went south. From the summer and through pre-season play, Kim English (a deadly outside shooter) proved to be scrappy, fearless, and a defensive pest on the perimeter but, when the season started he didn't get smidgen of PT; after Stuckey stunk to high heaven before going down to injury, who got an opportunity at the open SG spot? Kyle Singler. It's what we saw, so it's, I guess for some, the best we could do but, that's bullsh!t. English should have been given a chance right then; "strike while the iron is hot."

You get a team of high character players with high basketball I.Q.'s, they know what they're looking at ain't right but, they won't say anything that'll rock the boat. They won't rock the boat but, they'll lose faith in leadership, and that's what we're seeing the result of now...a loss of faith in the coach. He's a lier, poor decision maker, and a blamer of others for his shortcomings. You don't have to dislike someone because you don't trust them, and I believe it's a case of mistrust between players and coaches. Remember the team saw how Jerebko was treated during the trip to London. How confusing was BK7's role on the team made for him? How uncertain has the direction of his game in the league been made for him? I find it odd that both Drummond and BK7 are not able to perform at this time, to make that last minute charge with meaningless wins, to make Lil' Larry look like something he's not...a good coach. The team is stuck with Monroe in the middle, Maxiell as his sidekick at PF, and "gimme the ball and get the hell out of the way" Stuckey, as the go to guy. The Pistons can play Singler, and Bynum all they want but, it'll be to no avail; this stretch of the season is too competitive for English, Middleton, and Kravtsov to be thrown into the action and be effective. Too little, too late Lil' Larry. Next!!!
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KARMA

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:30 am

Lets not go over Bord Pistons fans. This is A rebuilding project.


No more no less. It's ugly but it had to get ugly before it gets beautiful again. Be patient. We have some really good players. 2 of them are injured. Let's try not to forget that.


1 good lotto or maybe even 2 good lotto picks, 1 good trade and were right back in the mix of A weak eastern conference.


Go Pistons rockon rockon



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KARMA

Post  Oracle on Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:18 am

Is a Bitch, and she's back in heat!

DX, that post was so good I read it TWICE!

Phillip, we agree that we have good talent! We also agree that some of it is off the floor, but that has nothing to do with the 80-90% of the season when they were there and getting abused by this coach!

I will say this! The Piston players, for the most part, have handled themselves with great professionalism. They have respected the position Frank holds, even if they don't respect the man!

Frank is done here, he's completely lost this team! You can see it in their play, where as last year, you felt that they would go to war with and for him! That's gone, and once gone it's not impossible to get back, but it rarely happens!

Frank will land on his feet, hell, Brian Hill got a gig, so once in the club, they never dump you, they just send you out to pasture as an assistant to some bottom feeder... Mooooooo!
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KARMA

Post  WTF on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:45 am

More like a continuing Posession, this whole thing plays out like some Slasher, Sci-fi, Haunted movie where in the end some remnants of horror manages to survive to continue it terror. This bascially have been going on since the firing of Flip and the first appearance of things to come. Starting with the Sacred Cow Speech, to the Accountability Speech, and so on.

Lil Larry doesn't sound that much different from Curry and Kuester spouting some dumbass proclaimation spouting some new company line to start a season with an un-equiped roster. The Horror is weakening but it still remains here, interferring, hanging on and not letting go. This team needs an exorcism, to be consumed in fire and have a stake driven through it heart to rid itself of the curse brought upon it by common apparition that ties all these bad seasons together. That ghost, that monster, that horror that goes by the name Dumars The Fat Jelly Donut Eating Ghost.

Lil Larry was a weak soul much in the way Curry and Kuester were, all victims left to deal with the remains of horror never irradicated from the roster, the un-spoken sacred cows, the un-accountable and favored.
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KARMA

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:02 pm

Oracle, Frank might have lost this group IDK. What I do know is I want A coach who make you say, WE HAVE TO GET THIS GUY HERE IN DETROIT!! Like Larry Brown when he left Philadelphia. It was like WOW! We have to get L.B. here ASAP!


So that's the WOW Factor I'm looking for with the next coach.

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Karma is a bitch!

Post  Sebastian on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:04 pm

deusXango wrote:"You reap what you sow." Where do I start with the sad seeds sown that we're tasting the bitter fruits of today? What was first? Was it the proclamation that it was open competition for all positions? "There are no incumbants...if a player wants a job, all he has to do is go out and take it," said Lil' Larry. "We're going to establish a culture of defense; I believe in defense first." Where's the evidence of that? A team of young players is basically a collection of professional students who need to be taught the right way, not blamed for not going the right way. We have a coach who's never done anything wrong (at least he's never openly admitted to it), it's the world around him that's screwed up! Is he talking sh!t about the return of a less than 20 minute a night player (in his estimation) being the savior of what's left of the season? If we won everyone of our remaining games, doesn't this man realize it would do more harm than good? "We want to end the season on a winning note," only to stumble out of the gate next year by losing how many games in a row?

I posted at the beginning of the season that the competition at PF wasn't between Maxiell and Drummond but, Monroe and Maxiell, and Monroe was hands down the best PF we had! I stated that Drummond (after watching him play a few games) was the best center we had, and it had nothing to do with him being a lottery pick; he should have been starting at center because he was a lottery pick and Monroe had worked out extensively on his PF game over the summer, plus the coaching staff couldn't all have missed the talent in Drummond. Why didn't Lil' Larry start him with Monroe and play him those paltry 20-25 minuutes a game? Not only didn't Drummond get 25 minutes a game, he got almost zero minutes with Monroe; these two were to be our bigs of the future, standing aside for Maxiell, a career role player on the last year of his contract with us. Whoever was responsible for that call, be it Lil' Larry or Fat Joe, they should catch a "hot one" in the head!! Maxiell the incumbant, per Lil' Larry; there was no open competition between Maxiell and Monroe for the starting PF spot. If anyone believes that Maxiell would have honestly won that spot, then we should re-sign him and trade Monroe for whatever we can get.

Who were the defensive players in the starting lineup? Sans Drummond, where was the "D" in the 2nd unit? Why was a 6' 6" player starting (who was not a Charles Barkley) and a 6' 10", 285 lb. player who runs like the wind, and jumps out of the gym, with reflexes and instincts that can't be matched by any big man on the team, coming off the bench, and the player with skills closest to him is sitting in street clothes? The absence of these players was excepted, and every player on the team was thrown under the bus but that 6' 6" player, when things went south. From the summer and through pre-season play, Kim English (a deadly outside shooter) proved to be scrappy, fearless, and a defensive pest on the perimeter but, when the season started he didn't get smidgen of PT; after Stuckey stunk to high heaven before going down to injury, who got an opportunity at the open SG spot? Kyle Singler. It's what we saw, so it's, I guess for some, the best we could do but, that's bullsh!t. English should have been given a chance right then; "strike while the iron is hot."

You get a team of high character players with high basketball I.Q.'s, they know what they're looking at ain't right but, they won't say anything that'll rock the boat. They won't rock the boat but, they'll lose faith in leadership, and that's what we're seeing the result of now...a loss of faith in the coach. He's a lier, poor decision maker, and a blamer of others for his shortcomings. You don't have to dislike someone because you don't trust them, and I believe it's a case of mistrust between players and coaches. Remember the team saw how Jerebko was treated during the trip to London. How confusing was BK7's role on the team made for him? How uncertain has the direction of his game in the league been made for him? I find it odd that both Drummond and BK7 are not able to perform at this time, to make that last minute charge with meaningless wins, to make Lil' Larry look like something he's not...a good coach. The team is stuck with Monroe in the middle, Maxiell as his sidekick at PF, and "gimme the ball and get the hell out of the way" Stuckey, as the go to guy. The Pistons can play Singler, and Bynum all they want but, it'll be to no avail; this stretch of the season is too competitive for English, Middleton, and Kravtsov to be thrown into the action and be effective. Too little, too late Lil' Larry. Next!!!

Great post, DX of which much I agree with:

1. Drummond should had been starting from week one of the season.
2. Moose should had been the starting PF.
3. Maxey's ass should had been coming off the bench.
4. When Stuckey came out slow doing the first two weeks of the season, English should had been inserted into the starting line-up and my man, Stuckey should had been the 6th-man with the job description of running the second team and getting to the hoop and the line. (I still believe that he can be this player.)
5. Jerebko should had never been put on ice for two months.
6. The Ukraine should had never only starting to see the court in late January. Why the hell did Joe go all the way over the eastern Europe to sign this guy, if he was only going to be in street clothes and Pistons warmups.
7. WE should had move Maggette for a player or a pick and not just let the guy wear Pistons swag all season long.
8. And, I can continue this list much more, but the thing that I have said all season long, while Dre Drummond was playing is: Not only was he [Dre] not getting minutes with Moose, he was also not getting minutes with B. Knight. A PG needs a center, like a center needs a PG. And, I don't care what nobody says B. Knight is closer to a PG than he is a shooting guard. Sure he can play off the ball on some possessions, but the dude is a PG, first.

Did any of you my Pistons Pals read where L. Frank said that OUR guys need to get some "Piston Pride"? I'm sorry, but it is too late in the season after taking all of these ass whippings to all of sudden "get some Piston Pride". Hell this ain't the Wizard of Oz, this is the f@#king NBA and WE are currently 44-91 under L. Frank and Brian Hill.

Joe and Gores better their asses to work and get OUR Pistons back to where WE belong!!!
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OUR next coach?

Post  Sebastian on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:05 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:Oracle, Frank might have lost this group IDK. What I do know is I want A coach who make you say, WE HAVE TO GET THIS GUY HERE IN DETROIT!! Like Larry Brown when he left Philadelphia. It was like WOW! We have to get L.B. here ASAP!


So that's the WOW Factor I'm looking for with the next coach.


Yo, Phillip, who will make you say "Wow"? Because you are right, the next coach has to come with some cache.
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We have blamed it all on coaching staffs and for sure Larry Frank set the tone for failure but

Post  cool breeze on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:57 pm

It is just not fun watching any of the current Piston players right now. I try hard but have lost interest since Brandon Knight went out of the lineup. Knight plays all out all of the time. Some of the time he makes a lot of mistakes but there is not doubt that he gives 100% and hates losing. I can't say the same for those Piston players last night. In my opinion that might have been the worst defensive performance of any Piston team in the history of the franchise. Middleton has played himself out of a job. Monroe was the worst player who played last night from either team. He tries to do too much. Why can't the coaching staff tell him that? He is the worst big man defender almost every game he plays. Why? Is it impossible for a coaching staff to create a defense that works for the players who are playing rather than players that Frank has previously coached on other teams? The players do not understand Frank's defensive system. That much is clear. English played the best of any Piston last night. Bynum played hard but he just cannot hold his own on defense against many players. Fortunately, the regular season is almost over and we can watch the real teams play in the playoffs. However, this year it looks like Miami will rule and win every playoff game. How will that sit with basketball fans who want to watch something exciting? We better enjoy the NCAA tournament and take a long vacation come playoff time.

The good thing that came out of this game was that the Pistons lost. Maybe a new draftee will take one of the positions of the players who didn't care last night. The owners should fire the coaching staff now and hire a group of high school coaches for the remainder of the season. Teach the players some fundamentals and create a defense that fits the current players.

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Fire Frank But Hire A New GM As Well

Post  WTF on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:05 pm

Since then, the 70-year-old Sloan has expressed interest in returning to coaching, but he turned down an offer to coach the Charlotte Bobcats last summer and then was passed over by the Portland Trail Blazers in their search for a new coach. - Nov 2012

We need to find out what the Bobcats did and do three times better. Just not sure how much Sloan has left in him or if Joe would give him the roster needed to get the job done. Many of you seem to think we're on the cusp of some kind of great turn-around but we're not remotely close with the abundance of average to below average talent of this team.

I agree that at seasons end Frank needs to be fired, but a new coach needs to be hired immediately (Sloan) and that Joe needs to back off and allow him to select the next draft pick, back off and allow him to bring in own staff without any of the previous assistant being allowed to stay (No Hold-Overs). Sloan shouldn't just be hired as the next new coach but as GM as well so that he is making both coaching and personel decisions. At this point Joe should only see that the checks are signed by Gores. This is what will entice players like Smith to want to come here and play.

Many often ask the question who's better? who can we replace Joe with? IMO it coaches like Sloan who are far more better evaluators of talent than Joe ever will be or been. There's been this whole mis-conception of hiring coaches to do what Joe think will work when it should be about drafting and acquiring players that fits what a coach wants to do. This is not a new concept. facepalm

Offer Sloan a 5 year deal at the minimum of 7 millions a season. That's the Wow this team requires

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KARMA

Post  deusXango on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:24 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:Oracle, Frank might have lost this group IDK. What I do know is I want A coach who make you say, WE HAVE TO GET THIS GUY HERE IN DETROIT!! Like Larry Brown when he left Philadelphia. It was like WOW! We have to get L.B. here ASAP!


So that's the WOW Factor I'm looking for with the next coach.

Phillip Boy, how you doing? Are you cross with me? Well, peep this; didn't and don't Bill Laimbeer have that WOW factor you're talking about? The main reason I've felt Joe should be kicked in his ass is the way he's consistently ignored the coaching abilities of his "Brother in Arms." The talk of Laimbeer not having professional head coaching experience is a crock, when you look at the hires since Flip Saunders. Laimbeer was coached by and learned from the greatest coach the Detroit Pistons have had, Chuck Daly! You know that where Laims go, Rick Mahorn is sure to follow, and who better to teach the big men we have how to wear the "Red, White, and Blue" of the Pistons and make it feared and respected again. Laimbeer took a team that was a wreak, cleaned house, rebuilt it on the fly, and went from worse to first in one season; he wasn't coaching gerbils, he was coaching professional basketball players. Because the women play below the rim instead of above it, some people make it a big difference. You want to know what the big difference is? Basketball players who excell playing below the rim are thinkers, and those that excell playing above the rim are generally highlight jocks!!
Haven't we had enough dumbass coaches, coaching dumbass players? If Tom Gores wants to make the playoffs, and see his investment begin showing a profit, and most importantly, redeem himself for the ill-advised hiring of Lil' Larry, he'll make Bill Laimbeer the next coach of the Detroit Pistons. Let Fat Joe grit his teeth over that one.
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PISTONS PRIDE

Post  deusXango on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:36 pm

Sebastian, surely you jest; Lil' Larry let "Pistons Pride" come out of his mouth? What has he done to contribute to Pistons Pride; what does he know about it? Tell me you're lying on the man. I know that what you say is true because that's his M.O.; talking sh!t out the side of his neck. There are fans in the stands that have and know more about Pistons Pride than he ever will. Poor coaching ploy if you ask me, and an insult to those who've come before him and labored hard to establish Pistons Pride.
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Weekend at Bernies?

Post  Oracle on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:39 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Since then, the 70-year-old Sloan has expressed interest in returning to coaching, but he turned down an offer to coach the Charlotte Bobcats last summer and then was passed over by the Portland Trail Blazers in their search for a new coach. - Nov 2012

We need to find out what the Bobcats did and do three times better. Just not sure how much Sloan has left in him or if Joe would give him the roster needed to get the job done. Many of you seem to think we're on the cusp of some kind of great turn-around but we're not remotely close with the abundance of average to below average talent of this team.

I agree that at seasons end Frank needs to be fired, but a new coach needs to be hired immediately (Sloan) and that Joe needs to back off and allow him to select the next draft pick, back off and allow him to bring in own staff without any of the previous assistant being allowed to stay (No Hold-Overs). Sloan shouldn't just be hired as the next new coach but as GM as well so that he is making both coaching and personel decisions. At this point Joe should only see that the checks are signed by Gores. This is what will entice players like Smith to want to come here and play.

Many often ask the question who's better? who can we replace Joe with? IMO it coaches like Sloan who are far more better evaluators of talent than Joe ever will be or been. There's been this whole mis-conception of hiring coaches to do what Joe think will work when it should be about drafting and acquiring players that fits what a coach wants to do. This is not a new concept. facepalm

Offer Sloan a 5 year deal at the minimum of 7 millions a season. That's the Wow this team requires

I don't know wise, Sloan may be the closest thing to having a corpse on the bench coaching!

I like Nate or Laimbeer! I actually believe they are the two most logical!
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Fire Frank But Hire A New GM As Well

Post  Oracle on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:51 pm

Wise, you're so correct about this!

I've scape goated Frank(and he deserves it), but he's really a symptom of a larger problem!

Joe's shadow as a Piston great with a stellar track record(before this collapse), puts lesser coaches at a severe disadvantage(Curry, Kuester, Frank).

Carlisle & LB stood up to him, and LB was even more forceful as he was the bigger star! Flip wasn't as forceful, but Flip did run things the way he mostly wanted, his problem was a smug and successful starting lineup that he had to gain the trust of!

If Joe stays, we can't have another weak coach, and that's why I like Nate or Laimbeer. however, if Gores wants a clean start, he needs to thank Joe for his service and move on!

I'm of two minds here! I would LOVE to see Joe make it back to the top, but on the other hand I'm sick of this business as usual, and fearful that without changing GM, we're in for more of the same!

I envy teams where the GM believes that it's part of his job to inform the public about where they're going. Coaches should mostly be silent on future direction, but GM should give us big picture stuff more than Joe does.
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COACHING CANDIDATES

Post  deusXango on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:59 pm

For all of you naysayers who don't want to give Laimbeer a chance in the Pistons head coaching chair, here are a couple who could make a big difference:
Brian Shaw, learned from the best there is.
Nate McMillan, quality teacher and mentor for a young team like ours.
Isiah Thomas, did a bang up job in Indy (enough for me to want to see him with a little job security and a quality roster).
I could go on but, these three would generate interest in FA's signing here, could bring out the best in Knight and Drummond, and are better than what we've had in quite some time. What's going to be important is the timing of the hire, whoever it turns out to be, because of the FA signing period; the draft is a crap shoot, and controlled expenditure but, signings for proven veterans has got to be cost effective, and bring in the best on the market (that'll fit) or stay out the market. Spending just to be spending is dopey.
I think Josh Smith and Tony Allen would want to play for any of the mentioned coaching candidates; get a coach, re-sign and sign FA's, and let the lottery take care of itself.
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Night of The Walking Dead

Post  deusXango on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:03 pm

Oracle wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Since then, the 70-year-old Sloan has expressed interest in returning to coaching, but he turned down an offer to coach the Charlotte Bobcats last summer and then was passed over by the Portland Trail Blazers in their search for a new coach. - Nov 2012

We need to find out what the Bobcats did and do three times better. Just not sure how much Sloan has left in him or if Joe would give him the roster needed to get the job done. Many of you seem to think we're on the cusp of some kind of great turn-around but we're not remotely close with the abundance of average to below average talent of this team.

I agree that at seasons end Frank needs to be fired, but a new coach needs to be hired immediately (Sloan) and that Joe needs to back off and allow him to select the next draft pick, back off and allow him to bring in own staff without any of the previous assistant being allowed to stay (No Hold-Overs). Sloan shouldn't just be hired as the next new coach but as GM as well so that he is making both coaching and personel decisions. At this point Joe should only see that the checks are signed by Gores. This is what will entice players like Smith to want to come here and play.

Many often ask the question who's better? who can we replace Joe with? IMO it coaches like Sloan who are far more better evaluators of talent than Joe ever will be or been. There's been this whole mis-conception of hiring coaches to do what Joe think will work when it should be about drafting and acquiring players that fits what a coach wants to do. This is not a new concept. facepalm

Offer Sloan a 5 year deal at the minimum of 7 millions a season. That's the Wow this team requires

I don't know wise, Sloan may be the closest thing to having a corpse on the bench coaching!

I like Nate or Laimbeer! I actually believe they are the two most logical!
lol lol Oracle, I didn't have the heart to speak on it but, a 70+ year old coach? lol lol Nooooooooo Wise!
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"Piston Pride" from mouth of L. Frank ...

Post  Sebastian on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:04 pm

deusXango wrote:Sebastian, surely you jest; Lil' Larry let "Pistons Pride" come out of his mouth? What has he done to contribute to Pistons Pride; what does he know about it? Tell me you're lying on the man. I know that what you say is true because that's his M.O.; talking sh!t out the side of his neck. There are fans in the stands that have and know more about Pistons Pride than he ever will. Poor coaching ploy if you ask me, and an insult to those who've come before him and labored hard to establish Pistons Pride.

DX, here is the link (mlive.com not detnews.com) to the article where L. Frank said: "From a big-picture standpoint, I think the thing we have to restore is pride in being a Piston, ... .As we've struggled post-All-Star break, that's one of the things that stands out. When you have time to reflect and whatever, that's something that stands out to me."

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The right mix

Post  merc on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Fortunately we've experienced what it takes to create an elite squad... this is why I never liked the idea of that "go-to guy"... properly built teams have a balanced attack and unselfish principles... we've be blinded by stats before (CV, BG)... the volume shooter doesn't work very often... every batman needs his Robin or he will be doubled all the time.... Kobe has tried being the "put the team on my shoulders guy"... yet he was only successful when he had other talent that could ease the load... Melo may never make it to the top because he has to chuck at a high rate (and doesn't defend).

So we enter another offseason loaded with options... for the draft I don't want a Shabazz type... I prefer a player that can create offense from lock down D (Oladipo)... Porter offers a little of both.

I do like JC for his ability to involve others yet I'm hedging daily on whether signing him is the right move... but I certainly don't want to revert back to the old bull in the china shop PG mindset.... then there's JC's age... if he's already a half step slow where will he be in two years?... Of course he would be tradable (I get a headache thinking about this)...
Someone needs to get in Knights head and make a determination because the one strength in this draft is at SG.

I would be pleased if Joe did not max someone out in this weak FA class... extra cap going into next year could prove to be much more beneficial than blowing the wad this summer.

We may not be able to acquire someone like Aldridge.... would Kevin Love be a better PF option than Monroe?... would they accept GM and CV?... the preferable method would be to acquire a lock down PF that also has range... does he exist?.. I think Monroe could still work well in a 3 big set (15 min at Center and 18 min at PF).

This lotto selection is really heating up... we're currently 1/2 game from the 3rd worse record.... someone suggested picking for another team that may desperately need a big like Noel (btw how is Noel's shooting range?.. hmm)... they would send us a quality wing and their pick (say 5-8 range).... gotta a feeling this will be moot as we go on our annual April run.
In the meantime... Frank, you just keep coaching the way you are and playing the same rotations... this could pay off handsomely Smile

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