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Young Core

Post  WTF on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:10 am

Murph wrote:"Singler: Shows he's has the High BB IQ to be an effective Role Player but that's where it stops. He is not and will never be a starter in the NBA. He's good at everything but not great at any one thing, but has proved that in spots he can player 3 positions. However his true calling is backup SF. Keep Him"

I pretty much agree on Singler. I think the best case scenario is if he really develops his 3 pt shooting, so that he becomes a primary weapon from the 3 pt line. If that happens, I think Singler could become a Mike Dunleavy type player, but one who's a little quicker and players better defense than Dunleavy.


"Monroe: Talented no doubt but, what I find disturbing with Monroe is his passion and work ethics towards the game. Just my opinion I could be wrong but what I see is a guy that's hasn't worked on his outside shoot in 3 seasons, who does not hit the weights and conditioning. Monroe wants to get by on his talents alone and not put in the extra work it takes to get to the next level. Monroe could be an All Star one day but that depends on everyone else getting worse first. Trade"

I strongly disagree on Monore. It's becoming evident that Monroe's talent has a ceiling, and that he's never gonig to become a franchise player. His defense is never going to be good enough to effectively guard big athletic centers like Noah, Chandler or Hibbert. But isn't that why we drafted Drummond? Didn't we recognize a year ago that Monroe needed help up front defensively, and that he would play better playing along side an athletic, defensive minded big? And now that Ben Wallace has retired, the need for a defensive big man is greater than ever. So when Drummond finally returns from injury, Drumond and Monroe need to play together...immediately...no excuses...no bullshit. Or else Lil Larry needs to be fired on the spot. In fact, Lil Larry pretty much needs to be fired regardless. But I wouldn't trade Monroe until we see how he plays with Drummond.


The bottom line is that I wouldn't get rid of any of the young core you listed below, with the possible exception of JJ.


Murph three seasons in and Monroe show's no signs that he'll ever be able to effectively hit a shot 12 feet out ala Smith, Randolph, just to name a couple at the position PF) he'll likely move to. IMO he'll only hinder Drummond development further if he played consistently beside him. Monroe is lazy as a defender and offnesively he just wants to get by, he doesn't have a dominate post game offensively. Yes Monroe can be alot better but he doesn't put in the work require to be better and we should trade him. He remains me of Prince in that he's likely to underachieve his entire career.
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Monroe

Post  Murph on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:32 am

"IMO he'll only hinder Drummond development further if he played consistently beside him."

But we don't know. We need to see what they look like playing together.

Big men with Monroe's skills don't come around all that often. We can find 6'11 guys who can lob up 3 pointers all over the place. Heck, we've had several on our roster this year alone. But there are not that many big men in the League with the combination of Monroe's ability to rebound, pass and score in the post. It would be a big mistake to dump him.
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Monroe

Post  WTF on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:59 am

Murph wrote:"IMO he'll only hinder Drummond development further if he played consistently beside him."

But we don't know. We need to see what they look like playing together.

Big men with Monroe's skills don't come around all that often. We can find 6'11 guys who can lob up 3 pointers all over the place. Heck, we've had several on our roster this year alone. But there are not that many big men in the League with the combination of Monroe's ability to rebound, pass and score in the post. It would be a big mistake to dump him.

Murph, some things you don't have to wait and see if it will work or not and I think its obvious that meshing Drummond and Monroe isn't a good fit, IMO of course. Rebounding: Yes Monroe proves that at times he can be a good rebounder but he does it inconsistently even though he's averaging above 9 boards a game. Passing: Yes he a decent passers but often has more TO's than he does with assist and at times especially during crunch often chokes with the pressure of having the ball in his hands. Scoring: Three years in and has yet to develope a got to move in the post, yes he's averaging 16 points but watching him you can't help but feel that if he puts in the work needed that he shouldn't be capable putting up well above 20 points a game.

Not only does Monroe game adversely effects Drummond if they play side by side, it's already adversely effects the play of everyone now. If he had a reliable post move than Knight would have had an easier time adjusting to the PG position, if his outside shooting was on par with the average big then he becomes a KG, C-Webb type worth keeping. I hate to say this but Monroe is slightly above servicable at this point and holding on to him means over-paying.

Can you honestly say that Cousins, Aldrige, and Josh Smith all are not better fits than Monroe. I never hear one announcer talk about a patented post move that Monroe can rely on. Every big man worth his weight has one
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Catching up and putting my 2 cents worth in

Post  deusXango on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:06 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Murph wrote:"IMO he'll only hinder Drummond development further if he played consistently beside him."

But we don't know. We need to see what they look like playing together.

Big men with Monroe's skills don't come around all that often. We can find 6'11 guys who can lob up 3 pointers all over the place. Heck, we've had several on our roster this year alone. But there are not that many big men in the League with the combination of Monroe's ability to rebound, pass and score in the post. It would be a big mistake to dump him.

Can you honestly say that Cousins, Aldrige, and Josh Smith all are not better fits than Monroe. I never hear one announcer talk about a patented post move that Monroe can rely on. Every big man worth his weight has one
Look fellas, there's a middle ground on this subject, IMHO, and that's to hold onto Monroe as a valued member of the 2nd unit, playing along side of Kravtsov. The benefits of that move are immeasurable in terms of future contract commitments for us, or his trade value as a restricted FA, for someone who wants to start him. If we could acquire Aldridge, Cousins, or Smith without trading him, I'd keep him...because he was a first round pick doesn't mean he has to start for us, or he's trade bait, it means the overall strength of the team is greater. The same applies to Knight; we build around Drummond!! Murph, Wise, you both make very good points and present strong arguements, however, let's not forget about the "X" factor; Joe Dumars.

Phillip Boy, I think you should listen to what Oracle had to say about swinging for the fences; remember, there's such a thing as "inside the park homeruns." Oracle's best statement for me was that Joe may come up with something totally unexpected, by using a combination of our available resources.

Phillip Boy, McLemore and Mohammad? Two rookie tweeners (SG/SF)? I think that'd be a waste of two high lottery picks (both are slated to go high in the lottery) and we could do so much better. How about Oladipo, who's better conditioned and more athletic than Mohammad, and Otto Porter Jr.? A bonafide SG and SF! Think about it. If we could get Oladipo in the draft, then we don't need to pursue Mayo in free agency, just concentrate on a complimentary big to start with Drummond. After the last couple of years of watching Monroe and Maxiell plod along, it's probably mind-boggling to imagine a frontline that featured Drummond and Smith, or Cousins, or Aldridge...I know the thought excites me. I still root for a rotation of:
PG-Calderon
SG-Mayo
SF-Porter
PF-Smith/Aldridge??
C- Drummond
2nd Unit
PG/SG-Knight
SF-Singler
PF-Monroe
C- Kravtsov
Towel wavers and emergency crew: English, Middleton, and CV.
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Talking 2013 NBA Draft

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:55 pm

OK Xango. I can roll with O.P. Jr and the Indiana Kid. The Indiana kid can't shoot At all but I like some of the other things he can bring to the table. But I like A guy who can shoot the rock.

Also, the Indiana kid is A tween-er as well. Not enough size to play the 3 but not A good shooter so teams will leave him open for the corner 3 ball. Just like they do Stuckey who was A embarrassment to himself and the Pistons organization this season by the way.... TWO Thumbs down for Rodney Stuckey thumbs down thumbs down

Stuckey took Charlie V's place as A walking waist of human space this year. And those were really big shoes to fill indeed!!! Sad...Sad exhibition of basketball by Stuckey.. thumbs down
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Talking 2013 NBA Draft

Post  deusXango on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:28 pm

Phillip Boy, the first thing I want to do is apologize for not acknowledging the fact that you're the only poster who's openly suggested obtaining a second lottery pick (which we can do), and using it save money, for quality play, and restructuring the team around Drummond. My hat's off to you sir.

Oladipo is capable of scoring, he just uses his head and picks his opportunities, and his averages point out those facts. With Stuckey, Bynum, Gordon, and now Knight, haven't we had enough of that coming from our guards...dominate the ball and heave it up, regardless of who's open? Oladipo is a defensive demon who plays with passion, drive, and athleticism, a needed perimeter player. I'm glad we're on the same page about Porter Jr. (it was Merc or Murph, I forget who exactly, who turned me on to this guy when I had given up on him) because he's the real deal. IMHO he'd be our primary scorer going forward; him and Smith would be a deadly combo as scoring forwards.

Oladipo would save Joe from spending time trying to entertain two FA's and just concentrate on signing Josh Smith or working a trade for LaMarcus Aldridge, either way there would be a big turnaround in the teams defensive play...action not talk! Lil' Larry gives us talk but, the team shows no action. There's no comparing Stuckey and Oladipo...#15 vs a lottery pick? Come on.
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This What I Mean Swinging For Fence

Post  WTF on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:05 pm

DX, The chances of us holding on to Monroe in any move for Smith, Cousins, or Aldrige are very slim. It would be nice to be able to keep Monroe but Joe would have to be mighty convincing and creative to make that happen. I mean could Joe really convince Portland or Atlanta to take the expiring contracts of Charlie, Rodney and JJ either in a trade or sign and trade scenario that could land us at least Smith or Aldrige. - Sweet Move if he could pull that off

One more big that could come into play this summer that no one has mentioned is Bosh, basically we'll be renting him for a season because he doesn't come into play until 2014. Miami has to be thinking now about what they're going to do when all three contracts are up and Wade, Lebron and Bosh are all free agents. The Lakers are already setting themselve up to make a run at Lebron in 2014. No way Miami let Lebron go but Bosh and Wade could be in play and this is what needs to be running through that Fat Brain of Joe Dumars. None of the three will do a rebuilding in Miami

The biggest impact Joe could make is via trade, the smartest thing is to go after a PG in the draft because that's the only position he could draft a player and get an immediate impact player. Nothing he draft is going to have the imapct of trading for a Granger or Aldrige, as far as FA its Mayo over Calderon Joe really need to go after any of the Top PG's in the draft.

There just so many ways Joe can go with putting together a roster that could start competing immediately.
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I pass on J.Smith and L.Aldridge

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:57 pm

" two FA's and just concentrate on signing Josh Smith or working a trade for LaMarcus Aldridge,"

I would pass on both these guys. 1. L.Aldridge is the real deal but he is injury pron, he is older and he had some type of heart surgery last off season. Can't think of the name but you can google it. PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! finger wag


J.Smith is A wild card! Number 1 problem is he thinks he is A MAX contract player... lol John Wall think he is too by the way.... lol PASS!!!! J.Smith also thinks he is A 3Ball shooter.... lol Double PASS!!!


The draft is the gate-way to the promise land for the Detroit Pistons. The Pistons need to find A young go to guy! A young go to scorer who is not afraid to be the man in crunch time and he can play lock down defense.

This young man is out there. Joe has to find him. And I believe he can.
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Point to Ponder

Post  Go Stones! on Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:22 pm

Timing is everything! With Boston and Lakers and Bulls falling fast, it may be the best time to strike. However, with the present Heat team the way it is, it will be their's to lose for the next few years. #Dynasty.

It would be ideal to get as many young players as possible and resign the gunners along the way. Eventually the Heat will be too old or injured to defend their dynasty (like the Celtics presently). That would be the perfect time to strike.

Joe D will aquire young undervalued players (ie, good money OR trade value; similar to when he got RIP, Billups and Wallace on the cheap) and keep treading water until the opportunity arises again (and then pull the trigger on a Wallace-like addition to win). A star most likely will be acquired over the summer, however, it will be to fill the seats, not to win a championship. One player will not make the difference.

This is the game of the NBA!
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Stuff

Post  Oracle on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:12 pm

@Stones - "A star most likely will be acquired over the summer, however, it will be to fill the seats, not to win a championship. One player will not make the difference."

Good point, we need to be thinking competing, not championship! Championships come from getting to the playoffs, gaining experience and competing, but first we need some butts in those seats!

@Phillip - I agree that we sorely lack a go to guy, and I don't care where Joe gets him from, but I have little faith that Joe will draft him! Joe constantly passes on guys that show that ability, and prefers slower steady guys! However, he may get that guy via trade, but teams rarely give up guys like that, but Memphis did with Gay, so anything is possible.

BTW, let me join DX and give you props on the 2nd lottery pick stuff!

@DX - Stuckey doesn't even resemble a #15 pick anymore! People(me included) thought Joe did well getting Stuckey there, but on draft day I said that I thought that Afflalo was the real steal because I had followed him closely when he was at UCLA!

@Wise - I like Bosh because he does what I wish Moose could do... hit the midrange jumper! Hell Moose can't hit jumpers from inside the FT line, and that's pathetic! IMO, he may need to bulk up and play center for another team, I will be VERY surprised if he ever gets enough skills to play PF! Plus he's too slow to defend even average PF's. Monroe is a center, and we already have one, so that's a problem unless he wants to come off the bench, which isn't a bad idea(credit to DX)!
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Point to Ponder

Post  WTF on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:15 pm

Go Stones! wrote:Timing is everything! With Boston and Lakers and Bulls falling fast, it may be the best time to strike. However, with the present Heat team the way it is, it will be their's to lose for the next few years. #Dynasty.

It would be ideal to get as many young players as possible and resign the gunners along the way. Eventually the Heat will be too old or injured to defend their dynasty (like the Celtics presently). That would be the perfect time to strike.

Joe D will aquire young undervalued players (ie, good money OR trade value; similar to when he got RIP, Billups and Wallace on the cheap) and keep treading water until the opportunity arises again (and then pull the trigger on a Wallace-like addition to win). A star most likely will be acquired over the summer, however, it will be to fill the seats, not to win a championship. One player will not make the difference.

This is the game of the NBA!

Go Stones, these aren't Lions Fans and you can't pull cheap tricks to fill those seats. The only thing that will fill those empty Palace seats are wins. Joe can keep playing the waiting game if he wants but it'll lead him right out the door.
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PEE BOY YOU'RE A MORON

Post  WTF on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:29 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:" two FA's and just concentrate on signing Josh Smith or working a trade for LaMarcus Aldridge,"

I would pass on both these guys. 1. L.Aldridge is the real deal but he is injury pron, he is older and he had some type of heart surgery last off season. Can't think of the name but you can google it. PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! finger wag


J.Smith is A wild card! Number 1 problem is he thinks he is A MAX contract player... lol John Wall think he is too by the way.... lol PASS!!!! J.Smith also thinks he is A 3Ball shooter.... lol Double PASS!!!


The draft is the gate-way to the promise land for the Detroit Pistons. The Pistons need to find A young go to guy! A young go to scorer who is not afraid to be the man in crunch time and he can play lock down defense.

This young man is out there. Joe has to find him. And I believe he can.

Aldrige has played and started in all 61 of Portland games this season, and he's just hitting his prime at 27 years of age and Josh Smith is worth a max deal considering some of the other dumbass deals Joe has made this one would at least make sense.
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Peep this Phillip Boy

Post  deusXango on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:23 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:"
J.Smith is A wild card! Number 1 problem is he thinks he is A MAX contract player... lol John Wall think he is too by the way.... lol PASS!!!! J.Smith also thinks he is A 3Ball shooter.... lol Double PASS!!!


The draft is the gate-way to the promise land for the Detroit Pistons. The Pistons need to find A young go to guy! A young go to scorer who is not afraid to be the man in crunch time and he can play lock down defense.

This young man is out there. Joe has to find him. And I believe he can.
Phillip, a "wild card" is just what we need! Stop playing GM with someone else's money; Tom Gores has gone on record saying he expects a positive turnaround that will cost money, money that he's willing to spend on his team. For us, Smith is worth a max contract...were you one of the people to "poo-poo" the James Harden acquisition because he wanted max money? I don't care about John Wall, he has nothing to do with this discussion but, I'm not passing on Josh Smith because he shots 3 pointers, hell, Rasheed shot 3's. A respected coach will get that wayward notion under control, and those 3 point attempts will be in the flow of the offense, and not disruptive. My last statement of fact on the matter is, Smith is worth more to this team under a max deal going forward than Prince, Stuckey, and Jerebko were to the Pistons over the last two years combined!!! The Pistons paid the latter more than what we would pay Smith.

Do you remember the two lottery picks we discussed a short time ago? Oladipo and Porter Jr. can play lock down "D" (along with Drummond and Smith) and Porter Jr. is a potential "go to guy" during crunch time, who's highly effective from the floor and the line. You like scratching sh!t that don't itch don't you?


Last edited by deusXango on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Off Topic

Post  Oracle on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:25 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Lions: make smart moves in going after Bush RB and Quin CB, they also need to pursue a WR that will compliment Megatron.

I'm excited by the moves the Lions made!

Reggie Bush is a better Travis Best, not a real star RB, but a dangerous one if you can open the holes for him! If you can't, he looks like a turd, so the offensive line needs to do their job!

With Quin, we finally get some quality defensive secondary help! I was impressed with him playing for the Texans, whose defense put the clamps on us!

There were other smaller moves that were really important as well, and the Lions may finally have enough balance to go far in the playoffs now!
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Deja Vu?

Post  deusXango on Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:17 am

As I watch the Pistons vs the Warriors I remember what a lot of local fans had to say about not drafting Steph Curry (inspite of what they saw), and it's the same thing some are saying about not drafting Trey Burke (inspite of what they are seeing). Stuckey lovers I believe.
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Deja Who?

Post  Oracle on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:03 am

deusXango wrote:As I watch the Pistons vs the Warriors I remember what a lot of local fans had to say about not drafting Steph Curry (inspite of what they saw), and it's the same thing some are saying about not drafting Trey Burke (inspite of what they are seeing). Stuckey lovers I believe.

I'm not sure who cold have passed on Curry if he was available, but he's 6'3 & Burke is 6'nothing, BIG difference when it comes to defending the PG position!

However, I've seen enough of Burke to know that he's a 100% solid lottery pick, and if available, I wouldn't pass on him!

I kid Wise about him because Wise uses the "He's never won anything" & "Who does he make better" tag on other players, but not on Burke! If any player on the court could be judged that way, it would be the PG!

I don't judge players totally that way, it's one factor, and Burke is a failure in almost every big game... TEAM Wise!

His team fails, but Burke steps up and delivers, but he can't do it all, and he's not getting the help in big games!

So, bottom line, the kid is a winner in my book, but I still think we'd have to be awfully lucky for him to fall to us!

But even if he did, it probably means we've moved up in the lottery, and if that is truly the case, I suspect that there will be other players that fit us better and Joe won't take him!
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Stuckey & JJ

Post  Oracle on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:04 am

Both having good games!

Monroe continues to unimpress!
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Interview Coup

Post  Oracle on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:05 am

Nice interview of the LOGO, Jerry West!
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GS

Post  Sparma on Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:06 am

Surprisingly interesting game, partly because their Jim Barnett calls it like he sees it, eg, praising JJ for his D. Best I've seen Stuckey in a while. He and Bynum starred, along with Maxiell who was fierce on the offensive boards. Singler heated up nicely. The only guy who really was off was Monroe (at 4-16), but he kept plugging away, troubled by the GS length. Calderon had a quiet game (2-5 shooting), but I see he ended up with 6 assists and 1 TO, a ratio we haven't seen too often in recent years. Middleton had some flashes too, as did JJ. Credit to the guys, who worked hard and made a lot of good plays, but ultimately fell short as expected.
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Deja Who?

Post  deusXango on Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:27 am

Oracle, I concede; if there was Porter Jr., McLemore, Muhammad, and quite possibly Oladipo, on the board when Joe drafted, he would take one of them due the 6' 0" you've consistently pointed out...that's a major drawback in todays NBA. Right now a promising PG is not as important to us as a stud SG or SF. Unless U of M wins the NCAA Championship we won't see Burke in a Pistons uniform. Sorry Wise.
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Bush in hand

Post  merc on Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:56 am

Or a hand on the bush?
This is a classic case of chicken or egg... will the Lions improve because of a proven back or will the back look worse because of the unproven O-line... finally closure on what I feel has been the real issue... QBs & RBs looking worse than they are... at least we know that Bush is for real.
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GS

Post  Sparma on Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:06 am

What my focus on the valiant effort leaves out is the defense was awful on the awful, eg, making Harrison Barnes look like a stud. Even there, there were moments as when Stuckey & co. took Calderon's place up against Curry and did pretty well at times.
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This was funny

Post  Oracle on Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:22 am

Normally I just look at the grades, but for some reason this time I read the blurbs on each player, and some of them had me laughing my arse off!

Take a peek - [Only admins are allowed to see this link]
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Grizz

Post  Oracle on Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:23 am

Grizz, this is getting ridiculous!

Come on back, your friends miss you!!!
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Ok Fellas. Go ahead and pass out max contracts

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:32 am

But remember 1 thing. G.Monroe is due! Andre Drummunds will be due in A few seasons and B.K.7 will be up as well.

Moose and Drummonds will be max guys. So if you give J.Smith Max money, Moose Max money and Andre Drummonds Max money how can you keep your 2013 lotto pick around? Or Singler, JJ? B.K.7?

So what you guys are saying is J.Smith, Greg Monroe and Drummonds are your big three? OK. Miami don't have 3 Max Contract guys but the Pistons should? OK!!! SURE!!!


I'm no GM but that's setting yourself up for to fail. Xango your 10000000% correct. I did not think James Harden was A max guy. BOY WAS I WRONG!!! I could be wrong here.... But I have A feeling I'm not wrong about Josh Smith.
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