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Calderon

Post  WTF on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:00 am

Looked good last night and you can already see that he play the PG with a purpose and not the Helter Skelter style we've been watching. This may get interesting soon.
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Possible SF

Post  lemonpen on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:35 am

Would you give up Cory Magettee and his $10 mil expiring contract for (drum roll please) ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Danny Grainger who is recovering from a knee injury. Grainger is owed $13 mil this year and $14 Mil next year. He is 29 yrs old and at his peak.

Why would the Pacers do it? Cap Space, and more likely the emergence of Paul Geroge at the same position & 1/5 the cost ($3M)

I would do it. Grainger is an All Star caliber SF who plays all aspects of the game well, and he has uber shooting range. If unable to play up to par next year, he is still a $14 mil place holder for next summers FA pool. I like the idea of distributing the cap space over 2 summers.
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Guards

Post  Sparma on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:22 pm

Thanks Oracle. I'm inclined to agree that Bynum and Knight on the second unit would be the way to go, in spite of the size worry. Calderon brings his own spacing because he's such a good shooter. The ingredient that's lacking on the first unit (other than AD!) is a guy to drive to the basket, to complement Calderon who does little of that. Of course Knight can do that, but I didn't see much of that from him yesterday. He may be a bit passive with Calderon on the ball so much. Incidentally, I think that Knight could/ should be an outstanding runner off the ball, in space, but that didn't happen yesterday for sure (btw Walt Frazier said Knight ordinarily played "terrible" against the Knicks). Stuckey, by contrast, would push to the basket for sure. And Knight might have a more varied, less passive, game if he were playing at speed with Bynum.
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Trades for NBA stars would be great but I am still interested in finding out what current members of the Piston team can do if the right combinations are used

Post  cool breeze on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:45 pm

Last night the Pistons won the 2nd half of the game against NY. But what does that mean when the other team is not really playing like they did in the first half? Nothing! How many other teams in the league with winning records have a player like Will Bynum on their roster getting a lot of minutes each game during important moments? None! How many teams with winning records play two big men at the same time who have a history of playing weak defense and incapable of figuring out how to get defensive rebounds? None! Yet this is what our coach does.

Frank plays Bynum so much yet Bynum cannot guard anyone in the NBA. Also, he is a one man team where no other player is an important part of the offense. It is all Bynum. Other teams like it when Bynum plays. The good teams by now know that they can shut him down whenever they really need to do it. Meanwhile, the other Piston players are standing around. If some of them set a screen, it means nothing. Fans like it when Bynum drives to the rim being so small and athletic. But how many times does he screw up? You can never have a winning record with that kind of offense. That is a circus act and nothing more. It is time to get real if Detroit ever wants to improve as a team.

As for the big men Detroit will never obtain a winning record if coach Frank continues to ignore the fact that teams are getting 2nd and 3rd chances to score. Monroe is an extremely weak defender and defensive rebounder. He is teamed up with Maxiell who has never been a capable defensive rebounder. For some reason earlier in Maxiell's career, he could get a lot of offensive rebounds but history shows that he doesn't box out bigger players than himself and has no nose for where the ball is going to come off the rim. The other big man who has never demonstrated capability to defend anyone is Charlie V and he is a terrible defensive rebounder. I have seldom seen Charlie ever attempt to box out anyone because he is never in proper position under the basket. Charlie is not interested in becoming a good defensive rebounder. He is a shooter and that is it. Why in hell can't the head coach understand who he has on his team and take it from at point to field the best overall team. That is my biggest slam against Frank who is supposed to be skilled at teaching defense. He can never teach those players with the exception of Monroe to ever play defense or improve defensive rebounding. I saw last night that our big Russian player takes up space and pushes opponents around positioning himself to get defensive rebounds. That is what you need to do but Frank somehow cannot grasp the idea that He should be placed on the floor with Monroe if Drummond is injured or not playing well. Detroit has looked real bad in the first quarter against the good teams. Everyone is blaming it all on the guards. You just cannot compete if you don't have one good big man defender playing at all times. That is a fact Mr. Frank.


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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:56 pm

Sparma wrote:Thanks Oracle. I'm inclined to agree that Bynum and Knight on the second unit would be the way to go, in spite of the size worry. Calderon brings his own spacing because he's such a good shooter. The ingredient that's lacking on the first unit (other than AD!) is a guy to drive to the basket, to complement Calderon who does little of that. Of course Knight can do that, but I didn't see much of that from him yesterday. He may be a bit passive with Calderon on the ball so much. Incidentally, I think that Knight could/ should be an outstanding runner off the ball, in space, but that didn't happen yesterday for sure (btw Walt Frazier said Knight ordinarily played "terrible" against the Knicks). Stuckey, by contrast, would push to the basket for sure. And Knight might have a more varied, less passive, game if he were playing at speed with Bynum.

I disagree with the idea that Knight should go to the 2nd unit after he just scored 30 points two games ago. Detroit has not had one practice since the arrival of Jose. And Frank is playing combinations of big men who have not chance of making this team better. That is the place where change needs to come if this team is going to get any better. You have to look at what is going on with the defense in the paint to determine if your team even has a chance to compete against the better teams when the good teams really want to play ball. As for Stuckey, he has never demonstrated that he should be in any starting lineup because he is not a consistant player on both ends. That is his history. Stuckey has the potential to be a good player but he doesn't have it in him to play hard on both ends even two games in a row. What I look for is effort. Knight always plays hard even when his shot is not falling or when he creates a turnover. In time because of this mentality, Knight will become a great and consistant player because of what is in his heart. And nobody with the exception of Drummond ever looks good when Bynum is playing point guard. And now other teams are starting to cut off the potential lob pass to Drummond during Bynum's crazy drives to the basket. Like I said before, there has never been a winning NBA team who has played a guy like Bynum more than 5 minutes a game. The circus act is fun to watch when it works but will never bring consistancy to an offense.

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Danny Granger?

Post  Sebastian on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:28 pm

lemonpen wrote:Would you give up Cory Magettee and his $10 mil expiring contract for (drum roll please) ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Danny Grainger who is recovering from a knee injury. Grainger is owed $13 mil this year and $14 Mil next year. He is 29 yrs old and at his peak.

Why would the Pacers do it? Cap Space, and more likely the emergence of Paul Geroge at the same position & 1/5 the cost ($3M)

I would do it. Grainger is an All Star caliber SF who plays all aspects of the game well, and he has uber shooting range. If unable to play up to par next year, he is still a $14 mil place holder for next summers FA pool. I like the idea of distributing the cap space over 2 summers.

Lemon, WE damn sure need an upgrade at the starting "3" and Danny Granger has been known to shoot extremely well at the Palace, in the past.

And, you're probably right, the Pacers are looking for some cap relief and Paul George is the real deal.

I am of the belief that Joe will need to move one of the two, big expiring contracts (Maggette's or Calderon's), before the trade deadline.
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DeMarcus Cousins ...

Post  Sebastian on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:38 pm

OUR friend, DeMarcus Cousins is at it, again, being ejected, collecting more T's, and just being an all around asshole.

Cousins' most recent exhibition of poor behavior was on display during last night's game in Utah versus the Jazz.

Joe needs to reach out to the Maloofs or whoever are the current owners of the Kings and offer Moose and Singler, two well-mannered players, who are professional in every way. Of course, the potential new owners [the Seattle Group] are not going to want to have a malcontent, like Cousins on their roster when the relocation to Seattle is completed.

Do it Joe, trade Moose and Singler for Cousins!

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Grainger

Post  lemonpen on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:06 pm

Sebastian wrote:
lemonpen wrote:Would you give up Cory Magettee and his $10 mil expiring contract for (drum roll please) ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Danny Grainger who is recovering from a knee injury. Grainger is owed $13 mil this year and $14 Mil next year. He is 29 yrs old and at his peak.

Why would the Pacers do it? Cap Space, and more likely the emergence of Paul Geroge at the same position & 1/5 the cost ($3M)

I would do it. Grainger is an All Star caliber SF who plays all aspects of the game well, and he has uber shooting range. If unable to play up to par next year, he is still a $14 mil place holder for next summers FA pool. I like the idea of distributing the cap space over 2 summers.

Lemon, WE damn sure need an upgrade at the starting "3" and Danny Granger has been known to shoot extremely well at the Palace, in the past.

And, you're probably right, the Pacers are looking for some cap relief and Paul George is the real deal.

I am of the belief that Joe will need to move one of the two, big expiring contracts (Maggette's or Calderon's), before the trade deadline.

Grainger fits a lot of needs without burying Singler. Honestly considering Joe's record on FA acquisitions I'm a little nervous with him having so much purchasing power at one time. Being shoppers for two years would really allow a complete makeover.

BTW can we ship Jose after just acquiring him. Isn't there a waiting period.
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Frank Makes Statement: Drummond is Not Starting Whether You All Like it or Not

Post  Sissy1946 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:22 pm

Talk about being a complete Azzhole, 'Lil Larry Frank has taken the cake, if their was anytime to make a statement to the Fan's that where we're going as far as the playoffs it was made last night, the stage was set, the timing was right for Andre Drummond to make his first start as a Detroit Piston, as usual the person to make that statement was none other than Lawrence Frank, he failed again as usual, Fat Azz Jason Maxiell who gets beat up every night by the other teams bigs started again like he has all season.
So Franks statement to all of us is Fuk you, Andre isn't Starting as long as I'm here, well back at you, you little azzhole, your statement was we're not going to shoot for the playoffs, everything else was in order, we got our point guard on the floor, we got Singler & Knight in their right positions finally to go along with Greg Monroe, all we needed was the missing part which was Andre Drummond, it never happened, partly because of Franks dense brain & Drummond having a back injury, Iam through with this piece of Sh!t coach, he's the worst coach as far as hard headed & brainless doesn't have a clue coach I've ever seen.
Joe Dumars is not done, release the Cracken Coach for he hasn't a clue how to run a basketball team, his rotations suck, he puts a player in & then a minute & a half he takes him out, can you let them play together for more than that jerk face?
So get ready fans because this is the way it's going to be the rest of the year, no relief in sight unless Dumars steps in again & takes Franks little toys away, (Stuckey & Maxiell) from him because he's going to play them, after all says the Little Turd, they give us the better chance to win, PUKE!
That's why were 13 games under .500 & have lost 12 double digit leads we had, can't possinly be the coach eh? As far as English, Middleton & Kravtsov they will be treated the same way the rest of the year locked into 'Lil Larry's prison facility called Little Shop
Of Horrors.
We are Doomed, Done, Kaput unless Joe turns his charm on & gets rid of the little prick along with Maxiell & Stuckey, by the way, Loved Calderon.
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Moving Calderon?

Post  Sebastian on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:41 pm

lemonpen wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
lemonpen wrote:Would you give up Cory Magettee and his $10 mil expiring contract for (drum roll please) ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Danny Grainger who is recovering from a knee injury. Grainger is owed $13 mil this year and $14 Mil next year. He is 29 yrs old and at his peak.

Why would the Pacers do it? Cap Space, and more likely the emergence of Paul Geroge at the same position & 1/5 the cost ($3M)

I would do it. Grainger is an All Star caliber SF who plays all aspects of the game well, and he has uber shooting range. If unable to play up to par next year, he is still a $14 mil place holder for next summers FA pool. I like the idea of distributing the cap space over 2 summers.

Lemon, WE damn sure need an upgrade at the starting "3" and Danny Granger has been known to shoot extremely well at the Palace, in the past.

And, you're probably right, the Pacers are looking for some cap relief and Paul George is the real deal.

I am of the belief that Joe will need to move one of the two, big expiring contracts (Maggette's or Calderon's), before the trade deadline.

Grainger fits a lot of needs without burying Singler. Honestly considering Joe's record on FA acquisitions I'm a little nervous with him having so much purchasing power at one time. Being shoppers for two years would really allow a complete makeover.

BTW can we ship Jose after just acquiring him. Isn't there a waiting period.

Lemon, Jose can be moved anytime before the trade deadline or the day of (Feb. 21), but has to be the only player that is moved from the Pistons, he cannot be paired with another or a collection of Pistons players. Additionally, he can't return to the Raptors or the Grizzlies via trade or free agency until July 1 or thereafter.


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Cool

Post  Sparma on Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:04 pm

I suspect you'll get your wish, with Knight remaining on the first unit. The first fruits of playing Knight with Calderon didn't look good, but Knight is certainly capable of delivering what's needed playing O next to Calderon: outside shooting, penetration, and running into space. I'm worried about him actually delivering the latter two playing next to Calderon, but with Frank at the helm I think we're about to find out whether if he will.
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Don

Post  Oracle on Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:39 pm

Sparma wrote:I suspect you'll get your wish, with Knight remaining on the first unit. The first fruits of playing Knight with Calderon didn't look good, but Knight is certainly capable of delivering what's needed playing O next to Calderon: outside shooting, penetration, and running into space. I'm worried about him actually delivering the latter two playing next to Calderon, but with Frank at the helm I think we're about to find out whether if he will.

I don't say these things because I have less faith in Knight, I say them because I want to give him the BEST possible opportunity to grow and show off his capabilities.

I still have trouble in any life goal of displaying talents in opposition to the job you're trying to get!

I learned on the job that if I want to be the boss, I needed to start dressing and acting like the boss, then people looked at me differently... I made them believe!

I think that Knight needs to play point guard, NOT shooting guard, there's no benefit, IMO!
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GUMMING UP THE WORKS

Post  deusXango on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:52 pm

As long as Rodney Stuckey is apart of the Pistons team, it won't move toward respectability; he doesn't have the skill set, or intelligence, to be as important on this squad as a great deal of people think...I wonder if they think that or they just have this "man love" thing going on. He's had offered up excuses of every variety for his lack of improvement, and yet where is the evidence that he's been working on his game, during the off seasons, since he's been here? All while fans debate about the negative effect of the endless coaching changes, Stuckey has played every thing but the 4 & 5 (PG, SG, SF, and now 6th man off the bench), and has excelled at none of them!!! Regardless of coaching, at some point talent should show, more than it has with this man. He's more of an impediment, than a contributor to this team; whatever a coach wants to do, he must include Stuckey in his plans, and that may not be what he wants to do.

Jose Calderon is not the saviour, like some have pointed out, but with the best possible players surrounding him, this team can play a hell of a lot better than it's performed so far. I don't care where BK7 was drafted, he's potentially the best 6th man on the Pistons; he's better than Stuckey now, and he makes more sense than Bynum long range. BK7 is not a SG!! He's no more a starting SG than he is a starting PG, and we should stop playing with that nonsense. Now that we have Jose, start playing English or Middleton at SG with him as he becomes acclimated to the Pistons...don't bring in a smart player like that, and continue to do dumb sh!t, like he won't recognize it....change for the better.

From playing against, and now with the Pistons, Jose realizes that the starting unit is a man short, as long as Maxiell starts; he can't say it here but, you can be damn sure that he talked about it in Toronto. Maxiell has to come out of the starting lineup (even if Drummond is sidelined for awhile with his injury), in favor of Monroe sliding over to the PF spot with a legit big man starting at center (Kravtsov?)...we slid Stuckey around, why can't we slid Monroe around? He won't be moved to SF, trust me. Now that Prince is gone, the only players left that're gumming up the works are Stuckey and Maxiell; they both gotta go, IMHO.
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GUMMING UP THE WORKS

Post  Oracle on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:11 pm

DX, you make a lot of really good points in that post.

While I don't agree that Stuckey is the cancer you appear to believe, I'm not against trading him, but I do want a replacement for what he does.

"With Calderon being thrown into the starting lineup six hours after his visa status was resolved on Monday, the Pistons will be evolving offensively over the season’s final 33 games. With four guards capable of penetrating the paint – Calderon, Knight, Rodney Stuckey and Will Bynum – Frank will be tweaking his playbook and juggling lineups to strike the right balance." - Langolis

Nobody on this team has been used right, but hopefully Frank will get better at it with the addition of Calderon, and the team will play up to it's capability. Oddly, this is important in attracting the attention of a new and better coach!

I was cool to your original request to get "The Dream" to coach Drummond, but I'm hot for it now. I really want BOTH big men coached in the offseason by some former NBA big man, because as they grow, so will our future.

We mostly agree on Knight! However, you see him as a 6th man long term, where I see that as a short term thing. I think Knight is going to develop into a VERY good starting PG, and I can't see how he can't.

If anybody has the skill set to be a PG, Knight is ideal. He only has to focus more on running the team, and that's intelligence, which he has.

The biggest thing I love about this team is that we finally have young players that have the "Eye of the Tiger"!

These guys are tough competitors who are the devil to kill! Not just a few of them, but Knight, Monroe, Singler, Drummond, English, JJ, and I assume Kravtsov and Middleton, both of whom I haven't seen enough to be 100% sure!
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Throw the Knicks game out...

Post  Oracle on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:15 pm

The Knicks pose a matchup problem for us, and when that happens, you look a lot worse than you really are!

Luckily, we won't be making the playoffs this year, and next year, we'll be better equipped to handle them!
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Time to See what is what

Post  Grizz2 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:48 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Looked good last night and you can already see that he play the PG with a purpose and not the Helter Skelter style we've been watching. This may get interesting soon.

Wise .. This is one reason I want Calderon playing PG .. Lets see what he can do with Frank's .. ahem .. offensive system .. Please note that Calderon shot well but assists were hard to create .. Clearly Frank agrees with you that it is Knight's fault .. or Calderon wouldnt be here ..

I do think BK7 can learn from Calderon on how to play PG .. he sure isnt so far from Frankless ...

Also it will put more pressure on Knight to get it together ... Think he has what it takes to be a good PG .. said AA was going to be good too and you didnt agree then either ..

Of course you have been right about things I was wrong about .. CV for example .. lol


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THe NBA listened to me .. for the first and last time ever...

Post  Grizz2 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:51 pm

Emailed em on that BS by Metta Cheap Shot ..

Artest suspended for cheap shot against Knight
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Come On Grizz

Post  WTF on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:28 pm

Grizz2 wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Looked good last night and you can already see that he play the PG with a purpose and not the Helter Skelter style we've been watching. This may get interesting soon.

Wise .. This is one reason I want Calderon playing PG .. Lets see what he can do with Frank's .. ahem .. offensive system .. Please note that Calderon shot well but assists were hard to create .. Clearly Frank agrees with you that it is Knight's fault .. or Calderon wouldnt be here ..
I do think BK7 can learn from Calderon on how to play PG .. he sure isnt so far from Frankless ...

Also it will put more pressure on Knight to get it together ... Think he has what it takes to be a good PG .. said AA was going to be good too and you didnt agree then either ..

Of course you have been right about things I was wrong about .. CV for example .. lol

Frank didn't trade for Calderon, Joe did and it was Joe who was critical of Brandon's play at the PG. Really this blind blaming of things on Franks is crazy when the facts speak otherwise. Joe trade for Calderon and Joe is dictating Drummond playing time and yet you continue to falsely blamer Frank.
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Don

Post  WTF on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:52 pm

Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:I suspect you'll get your wish, with Knight remaining on the first unit. The first fruits of playing Knight with Calderon didn't look good, but Knight is certainly capable of delivering what's needed playing O next to Calderon: outside shooting, penetration, and running into space. I'm worried about him actually delivering the latter two playing next to Calderon, but with Frank at the helm I think we're about to find out whether if he will.

I don't say these things because I have less faith in Knight, I say them because I want to give him the BEST possible opportunity to grow and show off his capabilities.

I still have trouble in any life goal of displaying talents in opposition to the job you're trying to get!

I learned on the job that if I want to be the boss, I needed to start dressing and acting like the boss, then people looked at me differently... I made them believe!

I think that Knight needs to play point guard, NOT shooting guard, there's no benefit, IMO!

You're 100% correct Oracle if the intent is to eventually develope Knight as a PG, then coming off the bench as a PG is the best thing.

Also Knight is under size to be playing the SG on a regular basis. Sure some games he will look well but then he's going to get he ass handed to him much in the manner Singler did when he came across the Elite SG's and speaking of Stuckey shouldn't be playing SF.
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Possible SF

Post  WTF on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:18 pm

lemonpen wrote:Would you give up Cory Magettee and his $10 mil expiring contract for (drum roll please) ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Danny Grainger who is recovering from a knee injury. Grainger is owed $13 mil this year and $14 Mil next year. He is 29 yrs old and at his peak.

Why would the Pacers do it? Cap Space, and more likely the emergence of Paul Geroge at the same position & 1/5 the cost ($3M)

I would do it. Grainger is an All Star caliber SF who plays all aspects of the game well, and he has uber shooting range. If unable to play up to par next year, he is still a $14 mil place holder for next summers FA pool. I like the idea of distributing the cap space over 2 summers.


Good question lemonpen, I guess it would depend on how bad that knee was and how well it (the healing)progressed. However the big problem Indy wouldn't want to trade him in the same conference yet alone the same division so I don't see it..
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GO BLUE PRIME TIME GAME ESPN

Post  WTF on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:23 pm

Go Blue.
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AA WRONG

Post  WTF on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:26 pm

Grizz2 wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Looked good last night and you can already see that he play the PG with a purpose and not the Helter Skelter style we've been watching. This may get interesting soon.

Wise .. This is one reason I want Calderon playing PG .. Lets see what he can do with Frank's .. ahem .. offensive system .. Please note that Calderon shot well but assists were hard to create .. Clearly Frank agrees with you that it is Knight's fault .. or Calderon wouldnt be here ..

I do think BK7 can learn from Calderon on how to play PG .. he sure isnt so far from Frankless ...

Also it will put more pressure on Knight to get it together ... Think he has what it takes to be a good PG .. said AA was going to be good too and you didnt agree then either ..

Of course you have been right about things I was wrong about .. CV for example .. lol

Not sure where you got the AA thing from but I've always said he was going to be good I think you have me mixed up withy someone else on that one Grizz.

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GettUMadd and Tha Show Thought AA Was A Bum

Post  FlyDog on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:31 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Grizz2 wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Looked good last night and you can already see that he play the PG with a purpose and not the Helter Skelter style we've been watching. This may get interesting soon.

Wise .. This is one reason I want Calderon playing PG .. Lets see what he can do with Frank's .. ahem .. offensive system .. Please note that Calderon shot well but assists were hard to create .. Clearly Frank agrees with you that it is Knight's fault .. or Calderon wouldnt be here ..

I do think BK7 can learn from Calderon on how to play PG .. he sure isnt so far from Frankless ...

Also it will put more pressure on Knight to get it together ... Think he has what it takes to be a good PG .. said AA was going to be good too and you didnt agree then either ..

Of course you have been right about things I was wrong about .. CV for example .. lol

Not sure where you got the AA thing from but I've always said he was going to be good I think you have me mixed up withy someone else on that one Grizz.


I'll vouch for you on that Wise, I remember going to battle with you regarding AA.
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THe NBA listened to me .. for the first and last time ever...

Post  deusXango on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:32 pm

Grizz2 wrote:Emailed em on that BS by Metta Cheap Shot ..

Artest suspended for cheap shot against Knight
Grizz, I keep telling you, YOU 'DA MAN!!!
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Crooked Refs

Post  FlyDog on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:33 pm

Grizz2 wrote:Emailed em on that BS by Metta Cheap Shot ..

Artest suspended for cheap shot against Knight

If they had thrown Artest out of the game, which they obviously should have done, we probably beat the Lakers.
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FlyDog

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