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Lost in the Hoopla

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Golden State knocked off the Brooklyn in NY!

They are for real!
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Sparma & Don

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:59 pm

I keep hoping that there is a reason for these odd behaviors.

Even though I've been burned in the past, looking for a higher reasoning behind this stuff, for some reason I'm hopeful, and as Merc said, we'll know a lot more by Feb.
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Oracle

Post  Sparma on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:27 pm

Yes, I'm hoping for a slew of trades. Maxiell and Prince should be tradable, as well as they've played. Stuckey too, although I'm beginning to be of two minds about his future as a Piston as impressive as he's often been recently. Contrary to my hope, though, is Gores' remark about playoffs which seems to be taken quite seriously by Frank and Dumars (e.g., in his retracted (?!) which left much of his dubious sentiment in tact in the surrounding comments). I think you've pointed out that by Feb we'll have a far clearer sense of our chances.

btw, much as I'd like to see Knight make it at point, I'm beginning to think that with his shooting he might weather the switch to SG better than Stuckey did (although Stuckey has better size and strength to deal with bigger opponents).
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Sparma

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:37 pm

Sparma wrote:Yes, I'm hoping for a slew of trades. Maxiell and Prince should be tradable, as well as they've played. Stuckey too, although I'm beginning to be of two minds about his future as a Piston as impressive as he's often been recently. Contrary to my hope, though, is Gores' remark about playoffs which seems to be taken quite seriously by Frank and Dumars (e.g., in his retracted (?!) which left much of his dubious sentiment in tact in the surrounding comments). I think you've pointed out that by Feb we'll have a far clearer sense of our chances.

btw, much as I'd like to see Knight make it at point, I'm beginning to think that with his shooting he might weather the switch to SG better than Stuckey did (although Stuckey has better size and strength to deal with bigger opponents).

Good points!

Watching the game tonight, I'm ready to switch back to Stuckey at PG and Knight at SG! Knight is really getting on my nerves.

Knight too often dribbles down court, passes to no one, and decides that he has the best shot in the building, and clangs another one!

BTW, did you see that beautiful drive to the basket that Stuckey made? Even though he missed the shot, he needs to keep that move! I've never seen Stuckey weave at warp speed like that before!

Finally, it really is our offense that broken. This isn't the Sheed/Ben team that if you're not hitting, you simply shut the other team down, we have to keep scoring, and we can't doing ISO's all night long!
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Agreement

Post  Grizz2 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:51 pm

Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Yes, I'm hoping for a slew of trades. Maxiell and Prince should be tradable, as well as they've played. Stuckey too, although I'm beginning to be of two minds about his future as a Piston as impressive as he's often been recently. Contrary to my hope, though, is Gores' remark about playoffs which seems to be taken quite seriously by Frank and Dumars (e.g., in his retracted (?!) which left much of his dubious sentiment in tact in the surrounding comments). I think you've pointed out that by Feb we'll have a far clearer sense of our chances.

btw, much as I'd like to see Knight make it at point, I'm beginning to think that with his shooting he might weather the switch to SG better than Stuckey did (although Stuckey has better size and strength to deal with bigger opponents).

Good points!

Watching the game tonight, I'm ready to switch back to Stuckey at PG and Knight at SG! Knight is really getting on my nerves.

Knight too often dribbles down court, passes to no one, and decides that he has the best shot in the building, and clangs another one!

BTW, did you see that beautiful drive to the basket that Stuckey made? Even though he missed the shot, he needs to keep that move! I've never seen Stuckey weave at warp speed like that before!

Finally, it really is our offense that broken. This isn't the Sheed/Ben team that if you're not hitting, you simply shut the other team down, we have to keep scoring, and we can't doing ISO's all night long!

Sparma and Oracle .. really good points .. Knight is playing like a SG .. ISOs .. but think .. who is the head coach and why is this continuing? It is on Frank develop the offense with real PG play ... Remember that except for Billups .. under Larry Brown's mentoring .. Stuckey and Bynum also have played like SGs .. Why is this? Stuckey only recently decided distibute the ball .. and.. it is not clear why he has .. New perspective? Doesnt matter .. The head coach, Frank, is the one who makes things happen .. It is mark against him that this is happening .. If Stuckey, 5 years older can FINALLY (though not sure it is what you would call ingrained in him) learn to be a better PG .. then so can Knight ..
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Has not Jmax struggled?

Post  Grizz2 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:06 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Leave it to a Twitter follower to set me straight.

After another Andre Drummond offensive rebound in Wednesday night's loss to the Warriors, I tweeted Drummond has the potential to be one of the best offensive rebounders.

A follower let me know Drummond leads the NBA in offensive rebound percentage (18.5), a stat that tells the percentage of available offensive rebounds a player gets.

Basically, the follower was telling me that Drummond already is one of the league's best offensive rebounders -- 20 games into his career.

Hey, I'm a traditionalist, and I'm new to this advanced stats stuff, so excuse my ignorance.

Just another reason that fans say Drummond should get more playing time.

You can hear the chorus growing louder after Drummond contributed 15 points, 12 rebounds, two blocked shots and several "wow" moments in a career-high 30-plus minutes for the Pistons on Wednesday.

My Twitter followers are aware of the running debate I've been having with followers over Drummond's minutes. I sense they are thinking that I am ready to concede that Drummond -- a rookie from UConn -- is ready for prime time.

Nah, I still think the organization needs to go slow with him.

I asked coach Lawrence Frank about juggling player development vs. winning.

"Your loyalty is to the team," Frank said. "It's never to one individual. Your loyalty is to try to find a way to win that game, whatever that takes.

"Unless your organization says, 'Hey, look, all we're doing is playing the young guys. It's not about winning, it's totally about these guys playing,' then that's one thing. If your goal is to try to win, then your loyalty is to winning and whatever it takes."
That's Frank's way of saying he owes it to the entire locker room to play who is playing best.

Fans look at Drummond's dominance against the Warriors and say he is ready for major minutes.

But look at how he labored Saturday against Dallas -- one night after a lot of energy was expended battling the Grizzlies' physical frontline. The second game of the back-to-back took something out of Drummond. And it should. The kid is 19, and his body has to adjust to the rigors of the NBA.

Also, one of the guys in front of Drummond -- Jason Maxiell -- is playing the best basketball of his life. So how would it look in the locker room if Drummond started cutting into Maxiell's time? Sports should be a meritocracy.

"Just because you throw a guy out there for 30 minutes could be the worst thing you do for a guy, because it may reinforce all the wrong habits," Frank said. "If he's not doing what he should be doing and he's not giving the effort, he's not following your principles, he's not following the game plan and you're playing him, how can you look at your other guys in your locker room and say you're about the right things? You can't.

"You can both develop players and try to win. That's the name of the game."

Drummond is averaging 17.6 minutes per game, and the average jumps to 20.1 over his past 10 games. Drummond's minutes easily could rise to around 25 per game as soon as he gets more acclimated to the NBA (and he keeps playing like he did Wednesday). The minutes shouldn't come at Maxiell's expense automatically. Maybe shrink Charlie Villanueva's time on nights he doesn't make his first few shots.

But it's quite apparent that Drummond is ahead of schedule, and his play might force Frank to keep him on the floor.

"I think I'm ready for anything, but as of right now, I'm just trying to play some basketball and win some games," Drummond said.

Contact Vince Ellis: 313-222-6479 or [Only admins are allowed to see this link]. Follow him on Twitter @vincent_ellis56.

Wise .... look us all in the eyes with a straight face and say Jmax never struggled in the past 5 seasons? HELL .. more often he did than did not .. And right now the stats per 36 minutes have Drummond playing better than Jmax .. SO.. that means Frank is contradicting himself on playing to win .. Drummond is better NOW than Jmax .. The fact that he blew some assignments is not reason enough to keep him out .. Because Jmax has been punk'D this season for sure by bigger BIGS .. Jmax is playing better than ever .. but still isnt good enough .. We need to move on to having a real PF and a real Center .. Monroe is getting frustrated with being the only real big out there .. It is stupid for Frank to keep doing this . just as it was stupid to play players out of position by Kuester and Curry .. Havent we all seen enough to know what is what ?!

Jmax PER 13.4 vs Drummond's 20.7 DRUMMOND!
DTRG 104 vs 99 .. DRUMMOND!
FG% .500 vs .580 DRUMMOND!
FTA's 3.3 vs 4.1 DRUMMOND!
FT% .680 vs .395 MAX!
REB 8.9 vs 12.9 DRUMMOND!
STEALS 0.5 vs 1.6 DRUMMOND!
ASSISTS .05 vs .09 DRUMMOND!
PPG 11.5 vs 12.9 DRUMMOND!

Play the better player .. play the player who is a natural center .. and put Monroe at PF where he belongs .. or we risk screwing up Monroe's development as well .. Cutting the minutes of Jmax makes his play off the bench more effective to our team as well .. It is all that clear ..
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Good Knight!

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:30 pm

Well, the good Knight is showing up!

He's still making mistakes, but inbetween, he's playing some good ball!
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Knight

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:34 pm

Is almost putting us on his back!!!

Stuckey a huge rainbow 3!
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OMG!!!!

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:41 pm

CV, a Piston, falls for the old "Pull the Chair" trick!!!

Embarrassing!!!!
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Oops somebody let...

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:44 pm

Bad Knight back into the game!

Really bad pass to Prince for the turnover!
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Prince

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:49 pm

Missing a eye and parts of his nose, but no foul???
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Knight saw the light of Day

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:01 pm

In the 2nd half, scoring 23 points(so far) of his 30!

The kid has less than a year in the NBA, I think he'll be alright!

BTW, 7 assists!
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Monroe

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:03 pm

Continues to disappear!
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Great Win though ..

Post  Grizz2 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:37 pm

Oracle wrote:Continues to disappear!

We won on the road .. even against a bad team .. that is a good sign .. If BK7 play as PG improves . like it did .. 1 turnover .. 7 rebounds ...5 assists .. 30 points ...giving some credit to Frank too ..Talented player .. just as important as Drummond and Monroe . Those 3 are the core of the team .. Probably just a small part of it ..but .. would like Monroe to play with Drummond more. Might help his play .. Need to start getting the time playing on the court at the same time .. Jmax is good too .. Just more naturally a good back up .. same for Stuckey ..

Prince was great today .. led the team rebounding?

Stuckey is really relishing his off the bench role .. big shot in the arm ..

Go Pistons .. dance
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Grizz

Post  Oracle on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:10 am

Grizz2 wrote:
Oracle wrote:Continues to disappear!

We won on the road .. even against a bad team .. that is a good sign .. If BK7 play as PG improves . like it did .. 1 turnover .. 7 rebounds ...5 assists .. 30 points ...giving some credit to Frank too ..Talented player .. just as important as Drummond and Monroe . Those 3 are the core of the team .. Probably just a small part of it ..but .. would like Monroe to play with Drummond more. Might help his play .. Need to start getting the time playing on the court at the same time .. Jmax is good too .. Just more naturally a good back up .. same for Stuckey ..

Prince was great today .. led the team rebounding?

Stuckey is really relishing his off the bench role .. big shot in the arm ..

Go Pistons .. dance

That's right Grizz, talent will eventually show, and BK7 has it, and he'll only get better!

That's what I needed to see from him, a dominant performance, and he delivered! He scored just about every way a guard could score... I'm impressed!!!
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Cleveland

Post  Sparma on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:21 am

Three facts tell the story of this game: 1) Cleveland had 20 offensive rebounds to our 10,but 2) we shot much better than them from the outside, and 3) we scored a ton of points off of turnovers.

It looked like Varejao was going to do his own Wilt imitation, like Noah yesterday, until Drummond started playing heavy minutes. In addition, we slowed the bleeding in the second half. I'm not sure why, but Kelser mentioned more helping on defense, which makes sense. I still wanted to see some Kravtsov, instead of Maxiell shadowing a guy with a seven inch height advantage, well five at least, in Zeller.

We shot incredibly well from the outside. This must have been Knight's best game. I'm old school enough to be reluctant to live and die by the jumper. But it worked tonight. And Knight didn't turn over until late in the game.

Kelser made a good point about many of the threes coming out of coordinated plays. I'd like Knight to thread the needle like the great points, but moving the ball effectively around the arc is a start.

Credit to the Pistons for the points off of turnovers. That said, Cleveland's going to be tough down the road with their two star-trending guards healthy.

Don't remember the Stuckey play you mentioned, Oracle -- I'm aging and watch on tape delay to zoom through the ads. I do remember two Stuckey assists to Drummond (after three to him last night) and a beautiful pass to Singler that didn't quite pan out. Also, Stuckey made a terrific play at the end, running down the clock, then using his strength to get off a jumper that fell. Shades of Billups on that play!

But it was Brandon's night. Great game by him.
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Congratulations, WE Beat the Cavs, again ...

Post  Sebastian on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:59 am

Without their starting back court. Great game, though, by B. Knight. Brandon has rebounded well, since an off night, Wednesday against these very same Cavs.

Currently, WE have only two guys playing in their proper positions/rotations:
- B. Knight (starting PG)
- Stuckey (back-up PG - 6th man)

In my opinion the following players must be placed in their proper positions/rotations:
- Moose (starting PF)
- Dre (starting C)
- English (starting SG)
- Tay (back-up SF and point forward - 7th man)
- Maxey (back-up PF/back-up center/back-up SF - 8th/9th man)
- Singler (back-up SG/SF - 8th/9th man)
- Charlie V. (back-up PF - 10th man)
- The Ukraine (back-up C - 11th man)
- Maggette (12th man - CD-DNP)
- Bynum (13th man - CD-DNP)
- Daye (assign to the Red Ants)
- Middleton (assign to the Red Ants)

A trade of Jerebko to Denver for Wilson Chandler makes the above possible.

[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

First off, Denver is one of the last teams to make multiple deals with OUR Pistons. Secondly, the Nuggets sort of owe US for Chauncey and Afflalo.

But truthfully, the Nuggets could use a player with Jerebko's skill-set. A guy, who runs the floor, can make spot-up 3's, finishes well on breaks, able to guard stretch 4's, a guy who can play the Nuggets fast pace style.

Also, if folks take a moment to look at the Nuggets roster; they will see that the Nuggets don't really have a back-up PF. Note: Jerebko would be more of a PF in the Nuggets' system, more so than in OUR Pistons' system. Additionally, Jerebko would save the Nuggets the additional year, plus close to $3 million over two seasons, if Chandler is swapped.

Now, I am aware that Chandler has been struggling with a hip injury, since the start of the season and may be currently on the IR, but I've seen players miraculously recover from injury when traded and placed in a new environment.

Chandler who would come with a very manageable salary of $5.9 prorated for the remainder of this season and 3 full seasons. He's 25 years old, 6'8" 225 lbs., skilled offensively and defensively, from Michigan, and ready to get his career back to the-level where it was when he was with the Knicks.

If this trade was made, after about 5 games, I would like to see Chandler starting at the SF position, backed-up by Tay.

The Nuggets have been known to sign fresh, new contracts then move the player shortly afterwards (see: NeNe and Afflalo).

This is a trade that Joe should be able to make happen.
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Shaq gives Howard some good advice

Post  Oracle on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:39 am

In this video Shaq performs a surprisingly good analysis of how Howard can be more effective, and be a great center for the Lakers.

I was shocked because I figured Shaq would dog him, but he shocked me.

Once Tops In Close Ones, Lakers Sink Down To NBA’s Worst
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Trade a Gump?

Post  Oracle on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:45 am

Sebastian wrote:Now, I am aware that Chandler has been struggling with a hip injury, since the start of the season and may be currently on the IR, but I've seen players miraculously recover from injury when traded and placed in a new environment.

Chandler who would come with a very manageable salary of $5.9 prorated for the remainder of this season and 3 full seasons. He's 25 years old, 6'8" 225 lbs., skilled offensively and defensively, from Michigan, and ready to get his career back to the-level where it was when he was with the Knicks.

If this trade was made, after about 5 games, I would like to see Chandler starting at the SF position, backed-up by Tay.

The Nuggets have been known to sign fresh, new contracts then move the player shortly afterwards (see: NeNe and Afflalo).

This is a trade that Joe should be able to make happen.

When you use miracle and trade in the same post, I get worried Smile

I don't trust hip injuries. They do recover, but may never be quite the same.

This smells like a despiration trade, even though I'm willing to part with JJ, more players will probably have to be involved with JJ posing as filler.
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L. Frank is not doing it for me ...

Post  Sebastian on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:02 am

After beating the Cavs for the second time in less than a week, while the Cavs play without their starting back court, OUR Pistons are currently 7-15.

The schedule for the remainder of the month has 11 games through December 30. There a chance that WE could go 2-9, beating the Wizards in a home and home or 3-8 beating the Wizards twice and the Raptors. But, of course who knows how OUR Pistons will fare during the remainder of the month.

Here is the remainder of the December schedule:

Mon, Dec 10 @ Sixers
Tue, Dec 11 vs Nuggets
Fri, Dec 14 @ Nets
Sat, Dec 15 vs Pacers
Mon, Dec 17 vs Clippers
Wed, Dec 19 @ Raptors
Fri, Dec 21 vs Wizards
Sat, Dec 22 @ Wizards
Wed, Dec 26 @ Hawks
Fri, Dec 28 vs Heat
Sun, Dec 30 vs Bucks

If WE have only beaten the Wizards twice and the Raptors or if WE are only 10-25 at the end of the month, then the L. Frank experiment has to end.

Gores must fire L. Frank, if WE are no better than 10-25 on December 31 and Isiah must be hired.
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Damn Good Post

Post  Grizz2 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:44 am

Sebastian wrote:Without their starting back court. Great game, though, by B. Knight. Brandon has rebounded well, since an off night, Wednesday against these very same Cavs.

Currently, WE have only two guys playing in their proper positions/rotations:
- B. Knight (starting PG)
- Stuckey (back-up PG - 6th man)

In my opinion the following players must be placed in their proper positions/rotations:
- Moose (starting PF)
- Dre (starting C)
- English (starting SG)
- Tay (back-up SF and point forward - 7th man)
- Maxey (back-up PF/back-up center/back-up SF - 8th/9th man)
- Singler (back-up SG/SF - 8th/9th man)
- Charlie V. (back-up PF - 10th man)
- The Ukraine (back-up C - 11th man)
- Maggette (12th man - CD-DNP)
- Bynum (13th man - CD-DNP)
- Daye (assign to the Red Ants)
- Middleton (assign to the Red Ants)

A trade of Jerebko to Denver for Wilson Chandler makes the above possible.

[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

First off, Denver is one of the last teams to make multiple deals with OUR Pistons. Secondly, the Nuggets sort of owe US for Chauncey and Afflalo.

But truthfully, the Nuggets could use a player with Jerebko's skill-set. A guy, who runs the floor, can make spot-up 3's, finishes well on breaks, able to guard stretch 4's, a guy who can play the Nuggets fast pace style.

Also, if folks take a moment to look at the Nuggets roster; they will see that the Nuggets don't really have a back-up PF. Note: Jerebko would be more of a PF in the Nuggets' system, more so than in OUR Pistons' system. Additionally, Jerebko would save the Nuggets the additional year, plus close to $3 million over two seasons, if Chandler is swapped.

Now, I am aware that Chandler has been struggling with a hip injury, since the start of the season and may be currently on the IR, but I've seen players miraculously recover from injury when traded and placed in a new environment.

Chandler who would come with a very manageable salary of $5.9 prorated for the remainder of this season and 3 full seasons. He's 25 years old, 6'8" 225 lbs., skilled offensively and defensively, from Michigan, and ready to get his career back to the-level where it was when he was with the Knicks.

If this trade was made, after about 5 games, I would like to see Chandler starting at the SF position, backed-up by Tay.

The Nuggets have been known to sign fresh, new contracts then move the player shortly afterwards (see: NeNe and Afflalo).

This is a trade that Joe should be able to make happen.

Damn good post Sebastian . Hope Joe D and L. Frank see this .. Post it over at the Detroit News comments for Pistons ..

Maybe Frank is coming around .. We gonna find out soon . Honestly . I dont mind losing at this point . Just want to see the core developed ..
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RE

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:20 am

"Without their starting back court."

I'm not saying this comment is incorrect. I'm not saying I disagree. I am saying why give the Pistons any credit at all? "Without their starting back court." I'm not feeling that comment! scratch


The Pistons played A solid game, case closed! Win or Lose, B.K.7, Drummonds and the Moose are developing. It's A WIN... WIN... Situation no matter what!

Stop looking for negatives. Give A lil credit to the boys. At-Least we healthy. That's what happens when you work hard over the summer.
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Such A Cheer Girl

Post  WTF on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:33 am

Phil1980boy wrote:"Without their starting back court."

I'm not saying this comment is incorrect. I'm not saying I disagree. I am saying why give the Pistons any credit at all? "Without their starting back court." I'm not feeling that comment! scratch


The Pistons played A solid game, case closed! Win or Lose, B.K.7, Drummonds and the Moose are developing. It's A WIN... WIN... Situation no matter what!

Stop looking for negatives. Give A lil credit to the boys. At-Least we healthy. That's what happens when you work hard over the summer.

How much credit should they get for beating a bottom feeder missing it's back court Sour Pee Boy? Yea they beat the Cavs ! that should about do it as far as credit goes.
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Not A bad Trade Idea... but I would pass

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:35 am

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W.Chandler is A solid basketball player with good size. 1 more good Isiah Thomas draft pick.

I would not move A guy like J.J. for him. Especially since Mad Max is A free agent and Charlie V will be moved or cut this summer.

Pistons need A back up Power Forward and J.J. is already locked in At A fair price for 4 more years.
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L Frank is not doing it...

Post  Murph on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:46 am

Sebastian wrote:After beating the Cavs for the second time in less than a week, while the Cavs play without their starting back court, OUR Pistons are currently 7-15.

The schedule for the remainder of the month has 11 games through December 30. There a chance that WE could go 2-9, beating the Wizards in a home and home or 3-8 beating the Wizards twice and the Raptors. But, of course who knows how OUR Pistons will fare during the remainder of the month....

If WE have only beaten the Wizards twice and the Raptors or if WE are only 10-25 at the end of the month, then the L. Frank experiment has to end.

Gores must fire L. Frank, if WE are no better than 10-25 on December 31...

I agree 100%.

Yes, sure we're a young team, and our young stars like Monroe, Drummond and Knight are going to have good nights and bad nights, as is the nature of young players. But no way do I believ that this team is playing up to it's potential. IMO, if Gores hired an experienced coach with a proven, successful track record of winning, and a history of improving his teams, I think our Pistons would play much better, much more consistent basketball.
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