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Walker

Post  Sparma on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:00 pm

Didn't Murph say from draft time forward that he preferred Walker to Knight? I'm becoming convinced, at least as a guy who makes the team go. I remain convinced that Knight will be an outstanding scorer, as well as a useful ball handler so long as you don't depend on him to make the whole O go.
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Walker

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:26 pm

Sparma wrote:Didn't Murph say from draft time forward that he preferred Walker to Knight? I'm becoming convinced, at least as a guy who makes the team go. I remain convinced that Knight will be an outstanding scorer, as well as a useful ball handler so long as you don't depend on him to make the whole O go.

Well Murph certainly looks correct!

I like Knight, but he has so few PG skills it's scary, and his other skills aren't what I would call special!

He obviously needs more time, but there are plenty of red flags and warning bells going off in my head!
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Checklist

Post  Grizz3 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:26 pm

Trade young player for old washed up player .. CHECK!
Trade young player who can score for old washed up player who cannot score .. CHECK!
Trade number 1 draft pick instead of releasing player .. CHECK!
Trade number 1 draft pick instead of amnesting player .. CHECK!
Can rehabilitate Daye and CV and Bynum... notorious bad defenders and ball hogs in the past .. but wont even try with Ben Gordon .. CHECK ..
Collect cap space for ONE SEASON when it is not even known that the cap space will be needed or used .. CHECK

MJ .. this trade is winner .. Consider it done .. lol


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Concerns

Post  Grizz2 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:32 pm

[quote="cool breeze"]
Grizz2 wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Does anyone think that Joe Dumars believes Frank did a good job tonight? It doesn't matter that the Pistons won the game. The way this game played out and that out of bounds play Frank drew up was so stupid it is beyond belief. These players have no coach. The combinations Frank creates makes no sense either. In the first half when Daye couldn't miss a shot, Frank brings in Stuckey and Bynum who both dominated the shot clock and I counted where Daye didn't touch the basketball for 8 straight possessions and during that stretch no Piston player got off a shot that looked like a good shot. Time after time our guards were feeding Maxiell who missed. What do you do in the NBA where basketball is supposed to be played at the highest level? Yes you find a way to feed the player with the hot hand. Not Larry Frank our Piston coach. He has no idea what he is doing. Atlanta played a horrible game. It wasn't that the Pistons were playing well at all. And Daye got hot and scored a lot of points. Stuckey was horrible on both ends of the floor but did Frank notice? No he didn't notice because Frank cannot make game time decisions. He bases it all on his pre game throught process. When Detroit had a large lead in the 4th quarter but couldn't defend or make shots which lead to Atlanta's comback what did Frank do? Yes, he played Monroe and Charlie V together. The opposing announcers kept stating that combinations of Monroe-Maxiell or Monroe-Charlie V do not work because those big men combinations are the slowest in the league to rotate on defense. It is so obvious. All any coach needs to do in integrate Drummond into a workable defensive set and this team will eliminate a lot of mistakes. And when you have a nice lead but the lead is disappearing quickly, you need to get your best defenders on the floor to make stops. That didn't happen as Frank had the worst defenders on the floor. Where was Singler who in my opinion is the best defender on the team? I guess that Singler is going to be history soon. What I saw with Singler on the floor was good solid defense, good passing, good screens, good positioning to rebound the basketball. It is difficult to shoot over Singler by opposing guards. You can't have 4 ball hogs on the floor together or 4 shooters who can't play a lick of defense. This should have been an easy win by over 20 points. And Frank looked like a lost puppy at the end of that game instead of a leader. These players must be having issues of trust with this coach. He shouldn't be considered as a head coach of a high school team. I look at the combinations Frank plays and say what the hell is going on with this organization. It appears that this team has enough talent to actually play better than 500 basketball but how can they do it with this coaching staff?

Don . heaing you .. the out of bounds play that Prince gagged up had NO SCREENS set .. although Knight was grabbed and fouled by Teague .. and the officials didnt call it ..

Maybe no one has ragged on Frank more than me .. I still blame him (not completely) for Knight not developing ..

But recently .. the team has been winning .. and that is the bottom line .. Pro's, Con's of L. F.

Always been Pro's
1. He wants the ball to go inside for post play .. Monroe has become a solid force inside ..
2. He wants players to defend for all their worth ... WORKS FOR ME .. and for the team ..

Recent Pro's
1. More real plays .. less crappy ISOs ..
2. Plays Drummond more .. up to 20 minutes
3. Doesnt get 4th quarter brain freeze so much now ..
4. Got CV, Daye, and Bynum to play REAL WELL OVERALL when they were given up for DEAD . I have no idea how .. but ..

I agree with Oracle and have said it myself . Drummond makes everyone .. play better and with more confidence .. The defensive gaps in CV, Daye, and Bynum are harder to exploit with AD on the job ..

Still Fails at these only Not as Much
1. Calling time outs too late ..
2. Subs too late for players who are mucking things up
3. Has strange combinations of players on the floor as if he drew their names out of the hat..
4. Getting Knight to play like a real PG...

So is Frank underachieving with a bunch of talented guys? My conclusion is RECENTLY Frank has gotten better . and it shows ..

The East is horribly weak this season ... Even the Miani C-Heat are not that strong .. The Pistons will make the play-offs or Moe Frank is worse than Curly and Larry ... in the final analysis .. which means we WILL lose our number 1 draft pick .. as I have been ranting fromt the very beginning about the Ben Gorden plus a #1 pick trade disaster .. The main positive was addition by subtraction ..Getting Gordon out of here .. but we should have just released Gordon or amnestied him .. and kept the number 1 pick .. I will be proven right about that ..

So Fire Frank if we DONT make the play-offs and FIRE Dumars if we do for losing the number 1 pick .. (kidding mostly on that .)

Good response Grizz. I am not impressed with this win streak. The Pistons are home and have fewer games right now. They are shooting the ball much better and guys like Daye are enjoying some success. However, the key thing to remember is how well did the opponent play against Detroit? Were those teams faking it for the most part? How well did Detroit actually play defense in all of those games? I still do not see much improvement in Charlie V, Daye, Stuckey, Bynum and Monroe when thinking about playing sound defense. And it still looks odd to me to see such a small power forward in Maxiell starting games and playing a lot of minutes. I wish those players the best and am not rooting against them. I want them to show that they can play defense when it counts.

Brandon Knight seems to be playing well in the first half of games and then has not been able to find the consistantcy regarding not turning over the basketball in crunch time. I still like his upside though. And Drummond is the shinning star. He is a game changer. I can't imagine not having that guy in the game during crunch time if only for his defensive ability.

Cool Breeze, Hearing you on whether or not some of our players can keep up being so dynamically improved .. For sure if they do .. Frank has done something significant as proof of his coaching ... CRUNCH TIME decisions and strategies for Frank were downright truly bad for pretty much most close games .. He has improved some .... Lets keep hoping he does .. Bobcat game is close at the moment .. Is another great opportunity for Frank, Knight and the rest of the team to develop together ... Would like to see Drummond playing with Monroe a lot more than he is .. especially this particular game .. up to the end of the 3rd quarter anyway ..
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Walker & Frank!

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:58 pm

Walker is awesome!

Frank is the worst coach we've had coming out of a timeout!
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Greg Monroe

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:04 pm

Is PAINFULLY SLOW!!!
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Brandon Knight

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:09 pm

Is painfully inept in the crunch!
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Their Guards

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:11 pm

Totally dominated us!
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Singler

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:13 pm

The experiment of Singler starting has to be over!
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Re: FORUM

Post  FlyDog on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:45 pm

Sparma wrote:David Mayo: "If the Pistons spend the money correctly, they won't miss that draft pick."

You get a one year window to spend the money in such a way that a first round (lottery pick in '14?) pick won't be missed. If, indeed.

Trust me.........we'll miss it.
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Walker

Post  merc on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:47 pm

Yeah he scored 20pts... on 9-23 shooting... 0-4 3pt... likes to dominate the ball
He shot his average for the year... 39%...
I do like his aggressiveness on defense


Last edited by merc on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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deer deer deer deer deer deer deer deer deer deer deerdeer....How quickly you forget about Curry

Post  FlyDog on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:50 pm

Oracle wrote:Walker is awesome!

Frank is the worst coach we've had coming out of a timeout!

Strummin the banjo........
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Pistons Lose In OT........Stuckey -8...............

Post  FlyDog on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:55 pm

For those still searching for the common denominator.........
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Sessions, Henderson and Gordon.........

Post  FlyDog on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:59 pm

All + off the bench.

Good to have Stunk back in the rotation for 34 minutes.
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HEY.....OHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Post  FlyDog on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:04 am

I can only imagine............
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Strongly agree . and ....

Post  Grizz2 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:17 am

Grizz3 wrote:Trade young player for old washed up player .. CHECK!
Trade young player who can score for old washed up player who cannot score .. CHECK!
Trade number 1 draft pick instead of releasing player .. CHECK!
Trade number 1 draft pick instead of amnesting player .. CHECK!
Can rehabilitate Daye and CV and Bynum... notorious bad defenders and ball hogs in the past .. but wont even try with Ben Gordon .. CHECK ..
Collect cap space for ONE SEASON when it is not even known that the cap space will be needed or used .. CHECK

MJ .. this trade is winner .. Consider it done .. lol


And look .. look at the game Ben Gordon had today vs the Pistons .... Yes .. give away a good player plus a first round pick for a washed up old guy the Bobcats would have released anyway .. Way to go Joe D!! lol

But lets keep whistling past the graveyard about what a good trade it was .. lol

Admit it .. it was always a dumb move ... NOT TO MENTION that we ALSO gave away Rip so we could pay 100% of his salary for still one more season .. More Capspace Brilliance .. lol
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Mayo

Post  Grizz2 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:20 am

FlyDog wrote:
Sparma wrote:David Mayo: "If the Pistons spend the money correctly, they won't miss that draft pick."

You get a one year window to spend the money in such a way that a first round (lottery pick in '14?) pick won't be missed. If, indeed.

Trust me.........we'll miss it.

Fly .. Mayo is so wrong so much of the time .. Pretty bad covering the Tigers too ..
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KNIGHT

Post  Grizz2 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:25 am

Oracle wrote:Is painfully inept in the crunch!

Oracle .. I didnt see the game .. but .. I have seen Knight play well in the clutch more often than Stuckey ..

BUT ...

He is going through some real clueless stretches of court time .. It is time to be very concerned .. It is up to him and Frank to fix this .. Guess we better draft that Wolverine PG Cynic is always promoting .. FAST ..

This game set back Frank's rep .... The team has proven it has the talent to make the weak eastern conference play-offs but losing to the Bobcats is a big dent in morale ..

Daye took one shot? Injured?

Start Bynum at PG .. Move Knight to SG .. Start Drummond at Center . Move Monroe to power forward.. JMAX to back up big ..

Replace Head Coach Frank with Bill Laimbeer .. just to keep me from whining day after day ..

Lets hope the Pistons right the ship soon ... This Bobcats game is a SET BACK .. Mad


Last edited by Grizz2 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Charlotte

Post  Sparma on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:26 am

Yes, FlyDog, I'm pretty sure we'll miss that pick, but time will tell. What are the odds that that money will be spent so well in one year to make up for losing that pick? Not impossible, and we'll see, but I'm deeply skeptical. btw, very nice game by Gordon to rub salt in the wounds.

Mistake filled game. I felt Singler played dreadfully, with a couple of blatant charges as well as at least one crummy pass, but he still emerged with a plus 5 compared to Knight's minus 6. Knight got one assist. Feature him where his limitations don't hurt the team so much already.

I guess as much as anything the shots just stopped falling. That happens.

Positively, a couple of nice Bynum to Drummond alley oops. Terrific shooting by Prince as well as by CV early.

Surprised to see Drummond tied for a team worst -13 because I felt he played pretty well and he put up solid numbers. Two more bricks from the "charity stripe" -- a misnomer in his case if ever -- did hurt.

Had they gotten that rebound out of the scrum with about 30 seconds to go and a 2 point lead, they would have won. So close, but a deserved loss.
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The glass is 1/2 empty and 1/2 full

Post  merc on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:44 am

This year making the playoffs is not critical... tonights loss goes a long way in keeping our pick.
The only way this year is successful is by playing the future and removing dead weight... even if it's after the deadline.

Tay has been playing as well as anytime in his career... when he's gone is when we'll fully understand how important it is to have his BB IQ on the court (good assistant coach candidate).... but his trade value is pretty good right now... let's not get into another Rip situation.


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The glass is 1/2 empty and 1/2 full

Post  deusXango on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:32 am

merc wrote:This year making the playoffs is not critical... tonights loss goes a long way in keeping our pick.
The only way this year is successful is by playing the future and removing dead weight... even if it's after the deadline.

Tay has been playing as well as anytime in his career... when he's gone is when we'll fully understand how important it is to have his BB IQ on the court (good assistant coach candidate).... but his trade value is pretty good right now... let's not get into another Rip situation.

Merc, the glass is twice the size it needs to be....common sense says to me it's imperative that we miss the playoffs (we need the best possible lottery pick this year to go along with the anticipated CAP space). Gores is the new owner, true enough, but he can't come into the league with this wild-eyed idea that the playoffs is something that can be mandated...a lot goes into a competitive playoff team. His hiring of Mr. Frank (over Mike Woodson) should indicate to him that basketball decisions should be left to basketball people...if he didn't/doesn't trust Joe Dumars, fire his ass and hire your own GM but, as an owner he shouldn't be hiring coaches IMHO.

Prince is playing so well, I'm for keeping him around (more so than Stuckey, Knight, at this point, and Jerebko), and trading the consistent -players. I'm ready to see what the other three rookies have to offer, and how they handle game situations...can't hurt.
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NBA tid bits

Post  merc on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:42 am

Royce White is being fined for breach of contract... OK why don't they put him in a wheelchair and give him a serious sedative before putting him on the plane?

Other rumors... potential blockbuster including Cousins and the Celts.

Varejao possibly going to the TWolves.

Merc at Channel 7 action news reporting :^)
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Smell the Frank Stank!

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:44 am

The bobcats went small to beat us, they gambled that they could out quick us and win... they were wrong, but Frank made them right!

Frank went big most of the time with the 2nd unit, although he did finally take Daye out.

Here's the problem!

It's alright to go big, but if you do, you better have plays designed to abuse them in the post on almost every posession. We went big, but didnt' utilize our size to our advantage!

And sorry, our first unit has to be close to the slowest and smallish units in basketball! Only Knight has decent speed, but after tonight, it's clear he isn't in Walkers class speed wise!

Add to that the fact that Monroe & Knight regularly miss free throws at critical times in games, and if the shots aren't falling, that spells disaster!

We know Drummond is a poor FT shooter, and I don't really give a crap, but Knight has to be a lot better as a guard, and if Monroe wants to play down low, he needs to be able to get fouled and make them pay.

Yes they're young and will get better, I believe that, but that doesn't mean they don't need to be called out for it!

Yeah there were goats in this loss, but one underlying thing that I noticed was as old as sports itself!

The Bobcats wanted it more than we did!
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Monroe

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:52 am

Monroe's lack of athleticism is really showing up this year!

He doesn't have to hops to finish at the rim without a good running start!

He struggles to manuever under the basket to get off his shot!

His lack of foot speed was badly exposed tonight when a easily gettable ball just went out of bounds(lost posession), one that Drummond would have retrieved easily!

Monroe has got to learn to play around his weaknesses!
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NBA tid bits

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:01 am

merc wrote:Royce White is being fined for breach of contract... OK why don't they put him in a wheelchair and give him a serious sedative before putting him on the plane?

Other rumors... potential blockbuster including Cousins and the Celts.

Varejao possibly going to the TWolves.

Merc at Channel 7 action news reporting :^)

Where are these fine items coming from?
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Re: FORUM

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