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Sad Commentary...

Post  Murph on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:39 am

WISEFAN wrote:That Daye going into his 4th season is headed to another run at Summer League. He won't find what he needs in Summer League games and nothing he shows positively will transfer over into the regular season.

Daye clearly with all his talent and potential lacks a NBA size heart for the game at a pro level. Daye has shown that when the chips are down he can't pick up his game. For him to go an entire 66 games in a slump speaks volumes about the type of player he is, so unless he gets a heart transplant and some much needed therapy he won't make the roster.

Daye needs to understand that it make or break for him before the season even gets started. Lets look at the positions and the likely depth chart at the three position he will be vying for PT. PF: Monroe, CV, and JJ then at SF: Prince, Maggette, and again JJ. The SG: is his best chance of PT because we currently have only Stuckey and potentially Maggette again filling that position.

Going to Summer League could spell doom for him if he doesn't completely dominate other players and lead this Summer League squad in virtually every category. If Drummond, Middleton, English, Singler, Macklin, or any of the other invitees out shine him during the summer he may be trade or let go before training camp even starts in October barring injuries and trades.

Bad move on his agent for allowing this......


Wise...good post.

And on a related point, why did Joe ever pick up Austin Daye's $3 milliion option for this year??? Think about it. If Joe hadn't agreed to pick up Daye's option, there would be a roster spot open, and Joe could have brought in a real PF with potential, for less than $3 million, guaranteed.

For example, I'd much rather have Gates or Machlin on the roster, instead of Daye. At least those guys have some potential and might eventually develop into servicable reserve big men. As Wisefan pointed out, this is Daye's 4th year in the League. By a player's 4th year in the League, he doesn't have much untapped potential left.
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Don Murph Oracle

Post  WTF on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:16 pm

Don, I'm not all that disappointed that CV will remain on the team this season. A couple of things will help CV and that is 1. Frank utilize a zone defense more frequently when Charlie on the floo now that the team has lenght and quickness. 2. Use Charlie at the SF and take advantage of him offensively. Offensively Charlie has the same ability as Sheed where he's virtually unstoppable if you convince him to play in the post.

Murph, you are correct that Macklin or Gates would be more deserving of a roster spot and I would add the fact that not only potential and upside make them both deserving but their size. These are legit PF.

Oracle, Daye is already doomed if Singler been dominating the practice sessions as indicated.

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Freep: 4 Detroit trades that shouldn't have happened

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:44 pm

Tuesday's news made us think of Adam Oates and a few other bad trades in Detroit sports history:

1. Adam Oates
The Red Wings sent the Hall of Famer packing in 1989 after four seasons. He was traded with Paul MacLean to St. Louis for Bernie Federko and Tony McKegney.

2. Chauncey Billups
Most fans agree on this mistake in November 2008: Billups, Antonio McDyess and Cheikh Samb dealt to Denver for Allen Iverson. Iverson didn't last until the next season.

3. John Smoltz
The Tigers got Doyle Alexander from the Braves in 1987 for the pitcher from Lansing Waverly. Alexander won 29 games in three seasons, but Smoltz went on to be an NLCS MVP and Cy Young Award winner.

4. Ted Lindsay
His work with the players' union contributed to his trade to Chicago with goalie Glenn Hall for Johnny Wilson, Forbes Kennedy, Hank Bassen and Bill Preston in 1957. And the Wings wouldn't win another Cup for another 40 years.
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Welcome To Detroit Part II Monroe

Post  WTF on Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:52 pm

Get use to the snubbing Big Fella, just suck it all in then go release it on the basketball court. You have to know now that as player on the Detroit Pistons you're not given anything be it deserving or gifted. If you look back at our successful teams over the years especially our Bad Boys team you notice they took everything they got take from titles, to recognition.

Remeber the league snubbed the best PG in the league at one time, stole a titles 1987 and 1988 from the Pistons so don't be surprised by the snubbing just go their and take the respect. Do that number 10 jersey honors and go put up 82 straight double-double this season. There is nothing keeping you from being a 20-10 guy night in night out.
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Piston's

Post  Sissy1946 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:42 pm

Watching the 1st quarter so far & the Pistons look pretty good, Singler with a couple of baskets, English the same, Drummond had a nice step away jumper, Knight a little shaky & Daye, why is he here? 21-16 Utah, Pistons playing bad the last 2 1/2 minutes, they had a 16-8 lead, Utah came back to score the last 13. 1st quarter Detroit 16 Utah 21.
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Pistons

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:21 pm

Sissy1946 wrote:Watching the 1st quarter so far & the Pistons look pretty good, Singler with a couple of baskets, English the same, Drummond had a nice step away jumper, Knight a little shaky & Daye, why is he here? 21-16 Utah, Pistons playing bad the last 2 1/2 minutes, they had a 16-8 lead, Utah came back to score the last 13. 1st quarter Detroit 16 Utah 21.

Hey Sissy, glad you're watching!

Well, the 2nd Quarter started a lot worse, then got better, but closed ugly.

Singler has looked the best, but these guys have been huffing and puffing so much, you can see that their conditioning needs work.

BTW, did you see them interview Frank?

Wow, he looked like the return of Casper the short ghost! He made Vince, who's White, look Black, he was so pale, LOL.

Advice to Frank... buddy, it's summer, soak up just a few rays, LOL!

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RutRow

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:32 pm

Look out, English with the corner 3, Daye scoring by going to the hole, Drummond slamming the offensive board, and the Pistons have grabbed the lead!!!

Looks like a different team now!
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RutRow

Post  WTF on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:12 pm

Oracle wrote:Look out, English with the corner 3, Daye scoring by going to the hole, Drummond slamming the offensive board, and the Pistons have grabbed the lead!!!

Looks like a different team now!

English and Knight looking good, looking at Daye and Macklin I think I'll go Macklin. I'm seeing no defense from Daye and Singler looks great as well
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RutRow

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:21 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:Look out, English with the corner 3, Daye scoring by going to the hole, Drummond slamming the offensive board, and the Pistons have grabbed the lead!!!

Looks like a different team now!

English and Knight looking good, looking at Daye and Macklin I think I'll go Macklin. I'm seeing no defense from Daye and Singler looks great as well

Macklin had a HORRIBLE game, missing 2 point plank shots attempting to dunk, when a simple layup would have been easier. I think his hops aren't there right now.

However, the turning point was when Drummond took control of the paint on the defensive end! Everything that was easy for Utah, suddenly became hard. he was blocking shots, altering shots, rebounding, and stealing... all from our big man!!!

In short, Drummond was impressive!
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RutRow

Post  WTF on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:28 pm

Oracle wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:Look out, English with the corner 3, Daye scoring by going to the hole, Drummond slamming the offensive board, and the Pistons have grabbed the lead!!!

Looks like a different team now!

English and Knight looking good, looking at Daye and Macklin I think I'll go Macklin. I'm seeing no defense from Daye and Singler looks great as well

Macklin had a HORRIBLE game, missing 2 point plank shots attempting to dunk, when a simple layup would have been easier. I think his hops aren't there right now.

However, the turning point was when Drummond took control of the paint on the defensive end! Everything that was easy for Utah, suddenly became hard. he was blocking shots, altering shots, rebounding, and stealing... all from our big man!!!

In short, Drummond was impressive!

Yeah he missed a couple of easy shots, other than that he looked solid rebounding and defending. Horrible rookie mistakes by Singler and Drummond at the end, and we got to get Drummond a FT Coach quick.

This likely the only games I'll get to see, unless I pay the $14 bones to watch on my laptops while at work.
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RutRow

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:38 pm

Wise, if they're all going to be this early, I probably will have to tape them.

My main objective was to see Drummond & English, and both lived up to expectations!
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games online.

Post  frankied on Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:40 pm

wise,
vipbox.tv is streaming the games. i got a good feed. all of the games should be available there.
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Re: FORUM

Post  frankied on Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:43 pm

Oracle wrote:Wise, if they're all going to be this early, I probably will have to tape them.

My main objective was to see Drummond & English, and both lived up to expectations!
agreed. drummond looked like he could contribute on the defensive end immediately.
english looked like a skinnier, quicker afflalo. nice pick.
middleton looks like a wasted pick.
in know it is only one game, but middlton showed nothing. absolutely nothing to indicate he was worthy of being picked. he makes walter "sleepy" sharpe look like the second coming of spencer haywood.
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Thanks frankied

Post  WTF on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:02 pm

frankied wrote:wise,
vipbox.tv is streaming the games. i got a good feed. all of the games should be available there.

I would like to see as many games as possible. No DVR to record games.
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Brandon Knight

Post  WTF on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:04 pm

Been hitting the weights I see, he has bulked up quite a bit since the season ended. They said Daye put on 10lbs since but it was hard to tell and they still listing him at 190.
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COMING OUT THE GATE

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:27 pm

Keeping in mind that it's only one summer league game, and everybody has an "off night" this is how I see the prospects shaping up (you gotta get it straight from the gate).

THE HIGHLY IMPRESSIVE: Andre Drummond, we've got a legit big, more than worthy of #9. Kyle Singler, worth the wait and more surprises coming! Kim English, a shooter, a defender, and a high character thinker; the draft was A+, good work Joe Dumars.

SCRAPPY and PROMISING: Vernon Macklin, and Yancy Gates; once they get their conditioning together, a couple of bench beasts. Even though he's not a coach on the team, it wouldn't hurt to pick the brain of Rick Mahorn every chance they got. Our PG Brandon Knight gave indications he's going to have a breakout year.

CANNON FODDER: Those unmentioned as impressive or promising, but there are two that bears calling out; Austin Daye and Khris Middleton, two wasted draft picks, and unneeded SF's. I heard an announcer say the Pistons couldn't figure out if Daye was a PF or SF; if true that's sad. The Pistons should be trying to figure out how best to part company with him.

Loved that 3rd quarter outburst and 2nd half come back. We've got work to do, but we've finally got someone to do the work. I'm excited.[Only admins are allowed to see this image]
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daye looked a bit bigger...

Post  frankied on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:32 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Been hitting the weights I see, he has bulked up quite a bit since the season ended. They said Daye put on 10lbs since but it was hard to tell and they still listing him at 190.
looked like his biceps were a bit thicker.
he looked a bit thicker, all around.
knight looked like he was heading to vinnie johnson territory. he looks at least 10 pounds bigger. maybe more. amazing that he could put on that kind of bulk in a couple of months.
i hope it doesn't hurt his quickness and speed.
good to see him bulked up, but it remains to be seen whether it will help or hurt.
he definitely looked stronger when he busted through a couple of double teams. he looked like barry sanders driving through a small sliver.
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i guess i'll have to start rooting for singler...

Post  frankied on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:36 pm

i've hated singler for a long time.
from back when he was in high school here in oregon.
kevin love and singler had a sort of magic johnson/jay vincent rivalry in high school and their teams played for the state title their senior years. i always like love better.
singler seemed like the perfect spoiled duke twerp.
but, i have to admit that he was very impressive today.
he just looked like an nba small forward. he looked like a guy who should be able to play in the league for a long time.
he may never be great or an all star, but he will always probably be a solid guy who will either start or get heavy rotation minutes.
i guess i'll have to start getting used to rooting for the guy.
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i guess i'll have to start rooting for singler...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:48 pm

frankied wrote:i've hated singler for a long time.
from back when he was in high school here in oregon.
kevin love and singler had a sort of magic johnson/jay vincent rivalry in high school and their teams played for the state title their senior years. i always like love better.
singler seemed like the perfect spoiled duke twerp.
but, i have to admit that he was very impressive today.
he just looked like an nba small forward. he looked like a guy who should be able to play in the league for a long time.
he may never be great or an all star, but he will always probably be a solid guy who will either start or get heavy rotation minutes.
i guess i'll have to start getting used to rooting for the guy.

Yeah, me too! I just had a visceral reaction to the guy, and quite honestly I thought he was, if not a wasted pick, a very questionable one.

Oh how wrong I was!!! Singler was totally impressive!

He can run the floor a lot better than I thought, and he has a nice stroke. I expected his fundamentals to be good, and almost everything he did was within the flow of the offense, which was a plesant suprise.

No, he won't be the star of this team, but he looks like he'll be one of the most dependable guys around... BuBye Daye, and Prince(after we drain as much teaching from him as we can this season).
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i guess i'll have to start rooting for singler...

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:50 pm

frankied wrote:i've hated singler for a long time.
from back when he was in high school here in oregon.
kevin love and singler had a sort of magic johnson/jay vincent rivalry in high school and their teams played for the state title their senior years. i always like love better.
singler seemed like the perfect spoiled duke twerp.
but, i have to admit that he was very impressive today.
he just looked like an nba small forward. he looked like a guy who should be able to play in the league for a long time.
he may never be great or an all star, but he will always probably be a solid guy who will either start or get heavy rotation minutes.
i guess i'll have to start getting used to rooting for the guy.

Hello Frankie D, glad to see you back online. Tayshaun was never an all-star, but those solid type players year in year out; therein lies their greatnest. I was all in favor of trading Singlers draft rights, but he's won me over with what I see. I think the man's a baller, and worthy of wearing the red, white, and blue of the Pistons.
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Who knew?

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:07 pm

Ray Allen took 3M less per season to get away from Rondo? Yikes!!! Heat to Add Lewis?

Full Article Here - Heat get better, eye more additions

"You can't help off of Allen," a scout said. "He is going to be lethal on those drive-and-kicks and is going to make James and Wade so hard to guard."

Lewis, 32, struggled with his shot last season, making 23.9 percent of his threes in an injury-plagued year with Washington. But he's a career 38.8 percent three-point shooter, one who made a living playing off Dwight Howard for 3 1/2 seasons in Orlando. If he signs with Miami -- a source described his meeting with Heat officials on Sunday as going "very well" -- there would be no pressure. Just make a few threes every night, Rashard. We'll take it from there.

For all the changes commissioner David Stern and his owners made to the NBA's salary structure in the new collective bargaining agreement, for all the advantages given to teams to retain their own free agents, the league can't control motivation or opportunity. Allen's sour relationship with Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo contributed to his taking $3 million less per season to play in Miami instead of returning to Boston, and the Heat were there to reel him in. And Lewis found himself free after being bought out by the Hornets, who acquired him via a trade with the Wizards for small forward Trevor Ariza and center Emeka Okafor. Lewis will collect $13.7 million from New Orleans this season, an ample financial cushion to accept the veteran's minimum to chase his first championship.
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Box Score

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:18 pm

Note: You have to click the image to see all of it.

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thanks deusX...

Post  frankied on Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:34 pm

deusXango wrote:
frankied wrote:i've hated singler for a long time.
from back when he was in high school here in oregon.
kevin love and singler had a sort of magic johnson/jay vincent rivalry in high school and their teams played for the state title their senior years. i always like love better.
singler seemed like the perfect spoiled duke twerp.
but, i have to admit that he was very impressive today.
he just looked like an nba small forward. he looked like a guy who should be able to play in the league for a long time.
he may never be great or an all star, but he will always probably be a solid guy who will either start or get heavy rotation minutes.
i guess i'll have to start getting used to rooting for the guy.

Hello Frankie D, glad to see you back online. Tayshaun was never an all-star, but those solid type players year in year out; therein lies their greatnest. I was all in favor of trading Singlers draft rights, but he's won me over with what I see. I think the man's a baller, and worthy of wearing the red, white, and blue of the Pistons.

it's good to be back talking pistons' BB.
finally, something good - and fun - to chat about.
i have to admit that i really like all of the new guys. singler, english, drummond...they all look like they can play and contribute...now.
(middleton looks like a wasted pick. he's lost. he looks like amir johnson did in his first couple of years, but he doesn't have amir's motor and activity.)
my big fear is that they are going to get buried on the bench.
i guess we will see, but i can easily see singler and english getting buried behind tay and magette and some new veteran retread free agent wing player to be signed during training camp.
i'm a bit more optimistic about drummond getting 15-20 + per game simply because the front line is so thin now. assuming ben w. doesn't come back.
i do, however, have a sneaking suspicion that ben will be back next season. if it is handled correctly, it could be a great situation. (have been act as coach/emergency big man who coaches until some strange muscle pull sidelines one of the regular rotation guys.)
however, considering both frank and dumars' tendencies, i don't think they will handle it the way it should be handled. and drummond will end up getting the same treatment darko got his rookie season.
it will be great fun, however, if frank just commits to putting the young guys out there to play, regardless of wins or losses.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Sissy1946 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:49 pm

Oracle wrote:
Sissy1946 wrote:Watching the 1st quarter so far & the Pistons look pretty good, Singler with a couple of baskets, English the same, Drummond had a nice step away jumper, Knight a little shaky & Daye, why is he here? 21-16 Utah, Pistons playing bad the last 2 1/2 minutes, they had a 16-8 lead, Utah came back to score the last 13. 1st quarter Detroit 16 Utah 21.

Hey Sissy, glad you're watching!

Well, the 2nd Quarter started a lot worse, then got better, but closed ugly.

Singler has looked the best, but these guys have been huffing and puffing so much, you can see that their conditioning needs work.

BTW, did you see them interview Frank?

Wow, he looked like the return of Casper the short ghost! He made Vince, who's White, look Black, he was so pale, LOL.

Advice to Frank... buddy, it's summer, soak up just a few rays, LOL!

Oracle: Yeah, Looks like it was Franks 1st day out in the sun, wow! ghostly Look! I thought Daye sucked the 1st & 2nd quarter but came back to play well in the 2nd half, looked more like we expected from him, Macklin, missed those 2 Dunks but rebounded well, Drummond looked pretty damn good except for his free throw shooting, definitely need to really work with him on that, his stroke didn't look to bad on those 2 step back jumpers he made. Singler, Knight, English looked real nice, need to see more Middleton, what happened to the Russian? I thought he was going to play summer league, maybe I missed it though but thought he was going to be there. Yancy Gates, did ya see his jumper that missed the basket by 4 feet, but he also had a nice grab above the rim dunk. Am pumped already more than at any time last year, have got that wait & see attitude, Joe still on the bubble though.
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I REALLY, REALLY, THINK....

Post  deusXango on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:02 am

Even though Macklin performed real well in the D-League last year, he only got 13 minutes of play (second leading rebounder on the team with 7; leading rebounder player 30 minutes to grab 8. This pattern of play continues I really think he'll not be apart of this team.

Tayshaun Prince, Cory Maggette, Jonas Jerebko, Kyle Singler, and Khris Middleton at SF. I really think the potential for a poor decision to be made is greater than we think, as Jerebko and Singler are probably more deserving of PT than the old vets. Prince in a package could probably get us our first rounder for next year back; Maggette and Maxiell, with their expiring contracts, should put us in next years lottery!

I really think that moreso than the team proving their worth this year, the coaching has to prove it's worth. I really think this team needs an upgrade in the backup PG department. I really think the sum total of Villanueva, Prince, Maggette, Maxiell, Bynum, Daye, and possibly Wallace will do more harm than good by taking away playing time from players that should be apart of this team 3-5 years from now. I really think we all would be excited to see Scott Machado suit up for the Pistons.

Drummond, and the Euro (forgot his name), Monroe, Villanueva, Maxiell, Prince, Maggette, Singler, Jerebko, Stuckey, Knight, English, Daye, Bynum, and probably Wallace are the 15 players that will be Pistons in the 2012-13 season; Macklin, Gates, and Middleton will be the odd men out. Just enough youth to claim rebuild, and just enough veterans to make a charge to the playoffs; Mr. Gores will be happy and that's all that matters....he scratches the checks!
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Re: FORUM

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