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Barnes

Post  Linwood on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:23 am

I agree on Barnes. I watched the UNC game this afternoon, and he didn't really impress. He certainly has talent, but I don't think he really solves any of the Pistons problems right now.

I really think the impact players in the draft that would immediately help the Pistons are Anthony Davis (Dream Pick!) Jared Sullinger (Bruiser, although he is a little short IMO), Andre Drummond (big, athletic... young, raw), and Kidd-Gilchrist (great player, not the biggest need for the Pistons right now).

I think if I were Joe, I would try to trade up to get Davis or Drummond, or... work the phones and see if we could get Cousins away from Sacramento with that first round pick and a player (Tayshaun?).

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History

Post  Linwood on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:25 am

I posted on the DetNews forum from around 2002 to 2006. I am a former Detroiter transplanted to Seattle in 2006. I think when I got out here I stopped posting at the News and posted mostly at PistonsForum.com. I still post at PF, but some of my favorite old timers are over here, like Merc, Oracle, G-Man, and hopefully, CloudWalker and Uncle Ty.

Does Lee haunt this board?
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A Disturbing Pattern

Post  Fennis Dembo on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:56 am

Make out of this what you will, but here are the Pistons’ records for the last 3 seasons after 35 games.
2011-2012 11 wins 24 losses
2010-2011 11 wins 24 losses
2009-2010 11 wins 24 losses

It’s just kind of mind numbing. Is Joe trying to hypnotize all of us. He may be sending us subliminal messages on the Palace scoreboards. Joe knows all. Joe is great. Have Mr. Gores give Joe a lifetime contract. Joe is our leader. I think he may have brainwashed me. I have this urge to shave my head, wear sandals, and sell flowers in the Palace parking lot. Help I need to be deprogrammed!

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Barnes

Post  deusXango on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:11 am

Linwood wrote:I agree on Barnes. I watched the UNC game this afternoon, and he didn't really impress. He certainly has talent, but I don't think he really solves any of the Pistons problems right now.

I really think the impact players in the draft that would immediately help the Pistons are Anthony Davis (Dream Pick!) Jared Sullinger (Bruiser, although he is a little short IMO), Andre Drummond (big, athletic... young, raw), and Kidd-Gilchrist (great player, not the biggest need for the Pistons right now).

I think if I were Joe, I would try to trade up to get Davis or Drummond, or... work the phones and see if we could get Cousins away from Sacramento with that first round pick and a player (Tayshaun?).

Welcome Linwood, I'm glad that you've reconnected with the Pistons forum. As time goes on you'll find this is far superior to what DetNews.com had to offer fans in terms of creative expression and it's a lively community. After reading your posts I see that you're a forward thinking fan with pro-active ideas, like the one regarding Cousins....love that type of thinking. Cousins is a player I'd part with our 1st rounder for, not a JaVale McGee; throwing in a contract like Prince's is iceing on the cake. We could use that money to pursue a FA like Nicholas Batum
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Amazing

Post  Grizz on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:26 am

Fennis Dembo wrote:Make out of this what you will, but here are the Pistons’ records for the last 3 seasons after 35 games.
2011-2012 11 wins 24 losses
2010-2011 11 wins 24 losses
2009-2010 11 wins 24 losses

It’s just kind of mind numbing. Is Joe trying to hypnotize all of us. He may be sending us subliminal messages on the Palace scoreboards. Joe knows all. Joe is great. Have Mr. Gores give Joe a lifetime contract. Joe is our leader. I think he may have brainwashed me. I have this urge to shave my head, wear sandals, and sell flowers in the Palace parking lot. Help I need to be deprogrammed!

DF, Amazing Number pattern there, ... reminds me of the lost numbers ..
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11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 11 24 

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Last edited by Grizz on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:29 am

merc wrote:DX, thanks for the perspective on Barnes... IMO the big man depth is good enough where we don't have to just look at BPA... if we had to settle for another SG or SF you can bet that Joe should be looking at trades... sorry man but this is NOT the year for swing players... they can be found in your sleep.
You're absolutely correct Merc, about the deep pool of big men this year. If we draft any place in the top 10 we can get a quality big that's better than all our bigs, with the exception of Monroe, and he will surely make a positive impact on the team. When I talk quality I'm talking about a player that plays hard from the opening tip until the final buzzer with intelligence and doesn't take games off for "hang nails" or their neighbors "old geezer's" dog died, and such nonsense....he'll be there.
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DRAFT PROSPECTS

Post  deusXango on Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:03 am

Big men that would help the Pistons "rebuild" effort:
Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, Thomas Robinson, Jared Sullinger, Tyler Zeller, John Henson, Arnett Moultrie, Meyers Leonard, and Fab Melo.
2nd round studs and surprises:
Jeff Withey and Royce White.

Is it really that wide of a margin between Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Draymond Green in terms of what they mean to a team and bring to the game?
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trend lines - last 10 games

Post  g-man on Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:14 am

need a shot blocker, we're ranked #22
upsides - team rebounding diff #8 (+2.8 ), team t/o diff #6 (+1.6), steals #10 (+8.20), team t/0 #8 (13.3)
downsides - team fouls #20 (20.5), team assists #19 (20.1), team 3 pt #24 (31%), team fg diff #25 (-0.17)
middle of the pack - scoring #12 (97) pick up one basket and we jump to #6, scoring diff #12 (+2.1) team defense #14,
team ft #18 (74.3%).

need to pick up the ft%, 3 pt shooting and find more garbage in the middle. all in all a set of big hands in the paint would make a serious difference in swats, put backs, fg% and probably increase the ft#'s . the assists should work themselves out. a few tweaks, a little more time with the rotation consistency and we're a 50/50 club. if cv can come back hit some 3's and play some inside next to monroe - the rest of the season gets a lot more entertaining.


Last edited by g-man on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:36 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : clean up)
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Barnes

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:38 am

deusXango wrote:
Linwood wrote:I agree on Barnes. I watched the UNC game this afternoon, and he didn't really impress. He certainly has talent, but I don't think he really solves any of the Pistons problems right now.

I really think the impact players in the draft that would immediately help the Pistons are Anthony Davis (Dream Pick!) Jared Sullinger (Bruiser, although he is a little short IMO), Andre Drummond (big, athletic... young, raw), and Kidd-Gilchrist (great player, not the biggest need for the Pistons right now).

I think if I were Joe, I would try to trade up to get Davis or Drummond, or... work the phones and see if we could get Cousins away from Sacramento with that first round pick and a player (Tayshaun?).

Welcome Linwood, I'm glad that you've reconnected with the Pistons forum. As time goes on you'll find this is far superior to what DetNews.com had to offer fans in terms of creative expression and it's a lively community. After reading your posts I see that you're a forward thinking fan with pro-active ideas, like the one regarding Cousins....love that type of thinking. Cousins is a player I'd part with our 1st rounder for, not a JaVale McGee; throwing in a contract like Prince's is iceing on the cake. We could use that money to pursue a FA like Nicholas Batum

DX I've been dying for a scoring wing player like forever it seems. Of course Barnes doest solve any of the teams defensive issues, but I think he would be an excellent selection. Maybe not the best selection but one that wouldn't hurt, I think Barnes can become our Paul Pierce and who doesn't want a Paul Pierce on their team?

If we're smart enough Joe or whatever GM change I'm hoping for can always work free agency or a trade and land a young big that's already out there to play next to Monroe. Could just be me but I always had an issue with young big and young PG being drafted. Barnes is a scorer and that's all you want out of SF some Glen Rice, Paul Pierce mix. Never know what you're getting out this young bigs I think Cousins clearly over rated and Oden a physical bust.
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A Disturbing Pattern

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:40 am

Fennis Dembo wrote:Make out of this what you will, but here are the Pistons’ records for the last 3 seasons after 35 games.
2011-2012 11 wins 24 losses
2010-2011 11 wins 24 losses
2009-2010 11 wins 24 losses

It’s just kind of mind numbing. Is Joe trying to hypnotize all of us. He may be sending us subliminal messages on the Palace scoreboards. Joe knows all. Joe is great. Have Mr. Gores give Joe a lifetime contract. Joe is our leader. I think he may have brainwashed me. I have this urge to shave my head, wear sandals, and sell flowers in the Palace parking lot. Help I need to be deprogrammed!

Not disturbing at all because it means a lottery pick is looming and that's great news.
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That Farley Picture

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:42 am

Is killing me, damn I crack up everytime I see it.
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farley..R.I.P.

Post  g-man on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:30 am

WISEFAN wrote:Is killing me, damn I crack up everytime I see it.

loved farley. he was intensely funny. his last movie, "almost heroes" is a cult classic. one of the funniest scenes in the movie is where they're sitting around the campfire telling stories like this one;

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farley..R.I.P.

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:04 pm

g-man wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Is killing me, damn I crack up everytime I see it.

loved farley. he was intensely funny. his last movie, "almost heroes" is a cult classic. one of the funniest scenes in the movie is where they're sitting around the campfire telling stories like this one;

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That's how I feel about John Belushi two comics gone to soon. John was on his way to mega-stardom.....
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WISEFAN, WISE MAN!

Post  deusXango on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:35 pm

I'm with you on this one Wise, it seems like forever that we've waited for a scoreing wing player, but this years prospects seem terribly thin at SF. Our interest would be better served by jumping headlong into the FA market looking for our wing. If it was about putting points on the board I'd seriously consider the overlooked (and some feel he's not needed because of Stuckey) Jeremy Lamb. Without a doubt the top scoreing prospect in the first round!

It's something about Harrison Barnes that I'm not comfortable with as a Piston, and as much as he's liked, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is just too damn small to compete with the other NBA SF's and a bad fit for our Pistons; these are the top rated SF's in most peoples mind, after them, who? By way of trade or FA signing there is: Wilson Chandler, Nicholas Batum, Michael Beasley, Gerald Wallace, and Derrick Williams to name a few wings. If we're unsuccessful, as slow and mechanical as he seems, Tayshaun wouldn't be bad for another year. I'd personally hate that though. This is the year we should go after the POY candidates Anthony Davis or Thomas Robinson! What cha' think a 'dem apples, Wise?
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Batum

Post  Linwood on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:14 pm

Nick Batum is having a breakout (contract?) season. I think he is going to be very expensive in free agency.

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Batum

Post  merc on Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:56 pm

This is a good example of buying low... Batum could have be had cheap when he was struggling earlier... I'm not too concerned about finding a good SF... worse case is we still have Tay... let's focus on the priorities.
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Batum

Post  FlyDog on Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:59 pm

"worse case is we still have Tay..."

You got that right Merc!
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Batum

Post  deusXango on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:06 pm

Linwood wrote:
I think if I were Joe, I would try to trade up to get Davis or Drummond, or... work the phones and see if we could get Cousins away from Sacramento with that first round pick and a player (Tayshaun?).
This is the exact reason I'm so crazy about your comment Linwood; the cost of Nicholas Batum. His contract demands could be met by the money saved with the Prince trade to acquire Cousins. If we got our hands on Cousins we wouldn't need Maxiell either and parting with that contract would further lower our payroll to about $12 million from where it is now. We could compete for the services of Batum. Imagine a starting lineup of:
C-Cousins
PF-Monroe
SF-Batum
SG-Stuckey
PG-Knight
That's a great group of guys on both sides of the ball and what I'd call a real rebuild effort, not to mention Dumars making a strong statement to support keeping him on as GM.
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WISEFAN, WISE MAN!

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:19 pm

deusXango wrote:I'm with you on this one Wise, it seems like forever that we've waited for a scoreing wing player, but this years prospects seem terribly thin at SF. Our interest would be better served by jumping headlong into the FA market looking for our wing. If it was about putting points on the board I'd seriously consider the overlooked (and some feel he's not needed because of Stuckey) Jeremy Lamb. Without a doubt the top scoreing prospect in the first round!

It's something about Harrison Barnes that I'm not comfortable with as a Piston, and as much as he's liked, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is just too damn small to compete with the other NBA SF's and a bad fit for our Pistons; these are the top rated SF's in most peoples mind, after them, who? By way of trade or FA signing there is: Wilson Chandler, Nicholas Batum, Michael Beasley, Gerald Wallace, and Derrick Williams to name a few wings. If we're unsuccessful, as slow and mechanical as he seems, Tayshaun wouldn't be bad for another year. I'd personally hate that though. This is the year we should go after the POY candidates Anthony Davis or Thomas Robinson! What cha' think a 'dem apples, Wise?

DX I wouldn't be disappointed if we went the route of selecting one of those bigs, but when I currently look at the abilities of Monroe, Knight and Stuckey to score I think just how much better all three could be if we had a SF that could really stroke it. Our biggest issue is post defense but none of those guys smell like Morning or Mutumbo type picks and the last thing we need is a big that takes away from Monroe's offensively.

Not sure I can take another year of Tay at SF facepalm I remember not being all gunho about Grant Hill until his first NBA basket

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IMAGINE THIS

Post  deusXango on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:27 pm

We trade away Prince, Maxiell, and our 1st round pick and end up with Cousins and Batum; we could actually stand to keep Gordon and Villanueva through the remainder of their contracts and we wouldn't have to worry about Joe f#@king up the pick and the team still improved. Two long range bombers, albeit defenseless long range bombers, coming off our bench would be worth keeping around if they could average 25-30 pts. combined. When their contracts are up we get CAP relief and Prince and Maxiell are already gone....this would partially make up for the Hamilton buyout while we've avoided amnesty. Why not just give away Daye and Bynum? We've done worse.
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Minny

Post  Sparma on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:30 pm

Based on an item posted from St. Paul newspaper (in SI), Minnesota sounds like a perfect destination for Ben Gordon. I think he could flourish next to Ricky Rubio. Get it done, Joe! Beasley anyone?

"A little birdie says the Philadelphia 76ers aren't interested in trading shooting guard Andre Iguodala to the Wolves, who need a shooting guard who can make shots."

St. Paul Pioneer Press



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Batum

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:42 pm

merc wrote:This is a good example of buying low... Batum could have be had cheap when he was struggling earlier... I'm not too concerned about finding a good SF... worse case is we still have Tay... let's focus on the priorities.

The priority is finding a defensive big that compliment Monroe in the front court and not all that sure I would want to use our 1st on any of the current bigs coming out. This need can be filled through trade or free agency.

As good as it sounds getting Cousins next to Monroe I think it messes with the order of things. They are going to either wash each other out or take too much away from the other position. If you though we were screaming about Stuckey point production now imagine what it be if we acquire another big that requires that ball.

You can't plug in 20 points at every position, they start to wash each other out and this isn't always a good thing. A player like Cousins don't want to be a low end double/double guy, and is that what we want out of Monroe? That's part of what LA problem is with Bynum and Gasol and why LA is looking to trade Gasol the 2 of them are really not a good fit. That's what we need to be careful of.
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a sleeper big man - festus ezeli from vanderbilt

Post  frankied on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:51 pm

i just saw him for the first time yesterday.
he looks like he could really develop.
very raw, but he is a legitimate 6'11" 245 lb athletic guy with good hands.
very intriguing. he doesn't have the timing on his shotblocking that you would like, but he is aggressive. he reminds me of a bigger, slightly less athletic version of ibaka from okc. right now, he is looked at as a late 1st rounder, but i'd keep a close eye on him.
i'd like to see the team get a second first round pick, say, mid first, and take a gamble on him. if he works out, your big man woes are solved.
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batum...

Post  frankied on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:01 pm

batum never was going anywhere. the team has always been committed to keeping him. it was only going to be a matter of whether he was going to get big money or whether they'd be able to get him cheap.
the only way they were ever going to get rid of him was if he'd been part of a blockbuster trade, like the rumored chris paul trade a couple of years ago.
no way, no how were they ever going to dump him for a cheap price.
batum, btw, is a perfect example of a young player who is "struggling" because of the coach not giving him consistent playing time.
everyone knows i love coach nate, but the one thing he does that drives me crazy is that he buries his young players and will not give them a chance. if they make one mistake, they will never see the light of day again. coach nate will always go with the old vet over a young player, no matter how talented. that has hurt the team over the years, as they have gotten rid of lots of good young talent simply because nate won't play the guys.
batum was one of those guys. even though he got a fair amount of PT, nate would not start him, or give him consistent minutes until things got desperate.
fans and the media would say that batum was "struggling" and that nate couldn't give him consistent minutes because he was struggling and inconsistent, when all batum really needed was consistent PT in order to become consistent on the floor. he is just one of those players who needs that kind of consistent PT in order to play well.
now, he's moved into the starting line-up - at the SG spot - and he is exploding, playing the way everyone always thought he could play.
what happened with batum is a perfect example of how you need to be patient with young players.
lots of fans were ready to, stupidly, give up on batum because of his "struggles". no one is saying that now.
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I Can't Remember

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:09 pm

Trying to think when was that last time a dominate PF-C combination won a title. Only 4 times has a title been won with a balance rosters and we did it 3 of those times and all three time the teams were carried by the backcourt.

I thought McHale-Parrish but McHale was the HOF in that front court. Kareem always had a serviceable big next to him, KG had Perkins serviceable, Duncan did it with his backcourt, Shaq did it with 2 SG's and LA plays better when either Gasol or Bynum is missing that starting line up isn't as great as you would like it to be. Just saying we need to be careful with what we fill the center spot with.
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