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Re: FORUM

Post  frankied on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:59 am

grizz,
not sure what numbers you looked at for johnson and his defense, but i'd have to argue that the numbers did not reflect his actual defensive abilities.
trust me, if he was not a good defensive player, especially as a rookie, nate mcmillan would not have played him.
he was/is a solid defender.
and he has the ability to be an excellent defender, a lockdown defender. some guys you can just see that they have that ability, and johnson has that ability...his size, strength, athleticism...all he needs is more experience and he is the kind of defender who will come into a game and shut someone down.
detroit doesn't have that kind of defender now. stuckey is the closest thing, in the backcourt, but he is inconsistent.
portland did not want to let johnson go, but with the injuries to oden and now, aldridge, they desperately need frontcourt help. getting pryzbilla was something that was absolutely necessary.
and johnson was the only option to release.
the only other option was to release oden, but they are not quite ready to completely cut ties with him.
like i said...if you are rebuilding, what you do is bring in as many talented young players as possible and see what they might offer.
signing johnson is a sign that they are serious about rebuilding. he is definitely better than russell.
and, frankly, i would probably take him over bynum. his size and athleticism is one of those things that you can't overlook and bynum just doesn't have that.
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Main

Post  merc on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:48 am

Don't think we can take any lineups too seriously until the 15th... Max will not be tradeable collecting splinters... sure we need to get a good look at Macklin... and we've said this about several kids that didn't amount to much with other teams.
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Missing Mod alert

Post  merc on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:53 am

Looks like Flip banned himself... I see him posting on another site.
Come on out Flip before we start a food fight door
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Johnson

Post  Grizz on Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:14 am

frankied wrote:grizz,
not sure what numbers you looked at for johnson and his defense, but i'd have to argue that the numbers did not reflect his actual defensive abilities.
trust me, if he was not a good defensive player, especially as a rookie, nate mcmillan would not have played him.
he was/is a solid defender.
and he has the ability to be an excellent defender, a lockdown defender. some guys you can just see that they have that ability, and johnson has that ability...his size, strength, athleticism...all he needs is more experience and he is the kind of defender who will come into a game and shut someone down.
detroit doesn't have that kind of defender now. stuckey is the closest thing, in the backcourt, but he is inconsistent.
portland did not want to let johnson go, but with the injuries to oden and now, aldridge, they desperately need frontcourt help. getting pryzbilla was something that was absolutely necessary.
and johnson was the only option to release.
the only other option was to release oden, but they are not quite ready to completely cut ties with him.
like i said...if you are rebuilding, what you do is bring in as many talented young players as possible and see what they might offer.
signing johnson is a sign that they are serious about rebuilding. he is definitely better than russell.
and, frankly, i would probably take him over bynum. his size and athleticism is one of those things that you can't overlook and bynum just doesn't have that.

Frankie .. numbers are not everything but his DEF R is 115. kind of high .. with 110 being bad .. last season not this .. This rating reflects who he was on the floor with so .. wont disagree if you have seen him play .. You are preaching to the choir cuz .. Bynum is not a real good player except in very limited minutes .. if you get lucky that game .. Like I said .. better to pick up this Johnson than have Wilkens or Russell or or Daye or CV or BG or Bynum on the team . by a country mile ..
too late now though . Joe has made his choices .. but you dont build for the future by adding players to the roster who have no future .. or dont fit an important position or role on the team .. present or future ..
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WHAT UP DOU?

Post  deusXango on Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:15 am

merc wrote:Looks like Flip banned himself... I see him posting on another site.
Come on out Flip before we start a food fight door
FLIP!!!! Flip! Where you at man? One of the trusted posters stated that you were busy working, so I took it to be quailty inside information, but posting on another site?! You're the founder of this feast man, come on; give us a holla! On the serious side Flip, you're missed by many.
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Ian Miller Florida State

Post  g-man on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:08 pm

frankied wrote:grizz,
not sure what numbers you looked at for johnson and his defense, but i'd have to argue that the numbers did not reflect his actual defensive abilities.
trust me, if he was not a good defensive player, especially as a rookie, nate mcmillan would not have played him.
he was/is a solid defender.
and he has the ability to be an excellent defender, a lockdown defender. some guys you can just see that they have that ability, and johnson has that ability...his size, strength, athleticism...all he needs is more experience and he is the kind of defender who will come into a game and shut someone down.
detroit doesn't have that kind of defender now. stuckey is the closest thing, in the backcourt, but he is inconsistent.
portland did not want to let johnson go, but with the injuries to oden and now, aldridge, they desperately need frontcourt help. getting pryzbilla was something that was absolutely necessary.
and johnson was the only option to release.
the only other option was to release oden, but they are not quite ready to completely cut ties with him.
like i said...if you are rebuilding, what you do is bring in as many talented young players as possible and see what they might offer.
signing johnson is a sign that they are serious about rebuilding. he is definitely better than russell.
and, frankly, i would probably take him over bynum. his size and athleticism is one of those things that you can't overlook and bynum just doesn't have that.

speaking of guards, maybe you guys have already talked about Ian Miller out of Florida State and i missed the post but he's a really interesting athletic 6'3 PG who should be there when we make our 2nd pick this summer. he's a runner with huge hops. i think he'd fit in great franks running schemes. Draftnet has him ranked #7th but I think he moves up a couple slots by June, the only guy taller ahead of him that isn't really a "1/2" guard is kendall marshall at 6'4.

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RODNEY STUCKEY

Post  deusXango on Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:32 pm

There are a couple of reminders that I see almost on a nightly basis that highlights Joe Dumars stubborness, and the overwhelming sentiment of some fans, all in the name of making a case that a #15 pick is somehow equal to a #2 pick. Popular belief aside that we should have taken Carmelo Anthony when we drafted Darko, the fact is we had the choice of Wade and Bosh also, and they all are heads and shoulders above what Stuckey has shown to be. But I wander. The reminders are Rose and Westbrook.

Does anyone remember when it was over-hyped that Stuckey scored 40 against Rose? Rose wasn't all that and Stuckey was the second coming. The next year Rose clearly owned Stuckey, went on to be league MVP, and has led his team to the NBA finals, while Stuckey hasn't shown any improvement in his game and the Pistons have bottomed out under the leadership of the guy.

Stuckey was a veteran whom had been given the reigns of the Pistons by the GM when Russell Westbrook came into the league; remember the outrage when Westbrook was chosen for the practice squad for Team USA over Stuckey? Stuckey had been on the team the year before and a lot of fans reacted like it was a given that Stuckey should be included on the team over Westbrook. The powers that be determined there was not any improvement in Stuckey's game, and a rookie out of U.C.L.A. was a better prospect to help whip Team USA in shape. U.C.L.A.? Didn't Aaron Afflalo come from U.C.L.A.?

The sad fact is these two players continue to excell from night to night and Stuckey has excuses made for him all while we search for a position that his "potential" can be realized in. "He's not a PG, slide him over to SG." Whatever we do, don't take him out of the starting lineup. A lack of improvement throughout his rookie contract is rewarded with a sizeable raise because he's indispensable to the team? We can't rebuild and go forward without him? This player has been a central character in the decline of the Detroit Pistons! If he's to remain on the team it should be as a 6th man, not a starter. If Ben Gordon can be a bench player for $11 million a year then why not Stuckey for what he's paid? Brandon Knight is a superior player to Rodney Stuckey. We need an upgrade at pairing a guard in the backcourt with Knight, preferrably an all world type PG. If Stuckey can't be relagated to the bench, then he's trade bait along with Prince, Maxiell, and Jerebko. If you really support our team and are more practical than sentimental, then you realize that we have 4 valuable assets to package with some of our waste to move this team forward. At the end of the day we want to be in contention, and not just heroe worshipers.
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RODNEY STUCKEY

Post  WTF on Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:17 pm

I remember those conversation concerning Stuckey and here he is in his 5th season and I liked him better his rookie season over any other season. Heck what can we do? Joe just inked him to a 5 year deal at almost at 9 mil per.
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stuckey

Post  frankied on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:13 pm

deusXango wrote:Does anyone remember when it was over-hyped that Stuckey scored 40 against Rose? Rose wasn't all that and Stuckey was the second coming. The next year Rose clearly owned Stuckey, went on to be league MVP, and has led his team to the NBA finals, while Stuckey hasn't shown any improvement in his game and the Pistons have bottomed out under the leadership of the guy.
i definitely remember that game against rose. he basically showed that he had the physical ability to compete with rose. rose could do nothing with him that game. he was bigger, stronger, as quick and almost as fast as rose.
i was definitely one of those fans who saw that as a sign of what stuckey could become, though i remained skeptical about him ever becoming a top-level point guard. that game showed that he could be an elite-level basketball player, but not necessarily an elite level point guard.
unfortunately, stuckey has basically been - no pun intended - stuck as the same player since he came into the league. while players like rose have improved, worked on their games and become more complete players.
now, i have to say that while i am impressed with rose and his improvement as a BB player, his play as a PG still leaves much to be desired.
he still does not look to create for others as he should. too often his dominance in games comes from his ability to get to the basket and take just about any defender one-on-one, and his teammates just stand around watching him drive to the basket. often, he ignores wide-open teammates in order to take an off-balance, wild shot. now, it sometimes goes in, but his real value as a point guard will come when he makes that pass to an open teammate with 5 seconds left in a game, instead of tossing up a prayer, behind his head, after acrobatically twisting his way to the rim.
what is most remarkable about him, however, is that he's been able to refine that type of game as well as he has.
he's improved his outside shot to where defenders cannot play him only for his drive.
he's perfected a football-like drive to the basket, complete with a fullback-like grip on the ball, to prevent defenders from stealing it from him as he barrels to the basket. if they even try to steal it, they'll probably have to foul him to get close to the ball.
he's learned how to be a decent pick and roll ballhandler, good enough so that defenders have to seriously defend the dive man as a possible option.
he's developed several little shots in the lane - a teardrop, a pullup - that help keep a defense honest and off-balance.
rose has done all those little things. stuckey, for the most part, has not. (though he is finally starting to improve his 3 point shooting, after all of these years.)
i think that stuckey, unfortunately, is just not that smart. he plays dumb. and his lack of improvement seems like a reflection of his inability to adequately grasp the little things, the subtleties of playing at the guard spot in the nba.
i doubt, at this point, that he will ever "get" it. he is what he is...a very physically gifted guard who can score in a couple of good ways and who can hit a high percentage of his free throws. he is also very valuable because he is a very good ballhandler. at the end of games, when you need a good ballhandler, who will take care of the ball, who can hit free throws, stuckey is your guy.
he can also defend, though he doesn't do it consistently.
that profile probably fits a 6th man's profile, a "seattle guard" in the mold of jason terry and jamal crawford, a couple of fellow rain city homeboys.
imho, stuckey can man the SG spot for a playoff team, though if you want to win a title, he'll probably be best suited as that type of 6th man who comes in and pours in points by the minute, while doing very little else.
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westbrook....

Post  frankied on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:20 pm

btw, i put westbrook in somewhat the same category as both rose and stuckey.
rose has improved his game as a BB player, but he still is not that great a point guard.
i'd define westbrook in the same way.
and both westbrook and rose play a lot like stuckey, they just play that game better. and they have refined their way of playing that game so that they can be dominant, even while they lack lots of the skills that "better" more skilled "point guards" utilize.
and they both use their physical talents to consistently dominate defensively.
imho, stuckey has all of the physical tools to perform at the same level. i just doubt that he has the head to perform in that fashion, consistently.
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whatcha' gonna do?

Post  Rett on Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:55 pm

Pistons in the "W" column tonite....


GO PISTONS....!!!!!

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Re: FORUM

Post  frankied on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:07 pm

thomas robinson is a bigger dennis rodman with more confidence in his offense.
whether that is worth a top 5 pick...
love his game, but you have to decide if you are going to spend a high pick on a guy with no offensive skills, even if he isn't deathly afraid to take shots, like rodman was.
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REMEMBER

Post  deusXango on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:21 pm

frankied wrote:thomas robinson is a bigger dennis rodman with more confidence in his offense.
whether that is worth a top 5 pick...
love his game, but you have to decide if you are going to spend a high pick on a guy with no offensive skills, even if he isn't deathly afraid to take shots, like rodman was.
Dennis Rodman is a bonafide Hall of Famer....for this team I'd spend a top 5 pick on a HOFer. Anthony Davis is the second coming of Marcus Camby, but is he HOF material?
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Michigan State is playing now and I'm wondering, what can Michael Kidd-Gilchrist do that Draymond Green can't? Who means more and contributes more to his respective team?
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Re: FORUM

Post  frankied on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:36 pm

deusXango wrote:
frankied wrote:thomas robinson is a bigger dennis rodman with more confidence in his offense.
whether that is worth a top 5 pick...
love his game, but you have to decide if you are going to spend a high pick on a guy with no offensive skills, even if he isn't deathly afraid to take shots, like rodman was.
Dennis Rodman is a bonafide Hall of Famer....for this team I'd spend a top 5 pick on a HOFer. Anthony Davis is the second coming of Marcus Camby, but is he HOF material?
except for davis - and possibly drummond - it would be tough to take another guy over robinson.
he's going to be a beast in the pros. he's going to be a double/double guy his first year, if he gets 25 minutes of PT. but he has no offensive skills at all. like i wrote, though, he still takes his shots and isn't afraid of his offense, like rodman was.
btw, i think davis is better than camby. he's got a better shot. camby's shot is ok, but it is so mechanical and slow, it's tough for him to get it off lots of time. davis has a good/excellent shot, especially for a big guy.
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Re: FORUM

Post  frankied on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:43 pm

deusXango wrote:Michigan State is playing now and I'm wondering, what can Michael Kidd-Gilchrist do that Draymond Green can't? Who means more and contributes more to his respective team?
love green and would love to draft him in the second round. detroit will have 2, so i'd take him with one of them.
but kidd-gilchrist is so much more athletic.
kidd=gilchrist can guard SGs, SFs, and lots of PGs.
he is not as skilled as green, but his defense lets him play at another level. or it will matter in the nba.
green's problem is going to be at the defensive end. he's going to have a tough time guarding SFs and he won't be big enough or athletic enough to guard most PFs.
i still think he'll carve out a nice little niche in the nba and will be a very productive player, offensively, he'll be like a smaller version of monroe, a guy who will be a touch matchup for just about any forward. but figuring out who he is going to defend will always be a problem.
in college, not so much of a problem.
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Tayshaun Sucks

Post  FlyDog on Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:48 pm

My prediction is that neither guy comes close to Rodman or Camby.

Not sure if I've ever seen a worse and/or less inspired performance than we saw from the Palace fag in the 1st Half. He doesn't give a crap, at this point.
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Getting Pasted

Post  Grizz on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:33 pm

Doug Collins has the 76ers playing intense defense this season .. has done a great job ... and has some talent to work with .. Maybe his best season coaching so far ... Still believe in Knight even though he apparently isnt having a great game .. He is going through the ringer this season .. and hope he keeps his chin up and fights to the last second to win the game and to improve .. no matter what .. We can see how much Monroe improved from his first season to his second .. and since Knight is a fighter, with good coaching, and some upgrades in his teammates, he will improve just as much .. Stuckey dont make me look bad for supporting your 2nd era at SG .. Agree with Wise about Stuckey's best season being his first one (when he wasnt PG).. This is the penalty for putting in STINKY head coaches like Curry and Q-ster .. and forcing a position change on Stuck at the same time .. Stuckey deserves blame too .. but ..not nearly as much as the guy upstairs for making the improvement team atmosphere pure wack!
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:44 pm

What the f#@k is happening to this team tonight? They better kick the Bobcats asses tomorrow night!
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whatcha' gonna do?

Post  WTF on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:01 am

Rett wrote:Pistons in the "W" column tonite....


GO PISTONS....!!!!!

LOSER box
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When I dont see the game,

Post  Grizz on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:19 am

this is where I miss Lee's game reports ... Lee357 .. welcome back anytime! .. admit this game would have bee hard to watch without getting sick .. i feel sick just from reading box score Shocked
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Kaman brings it!

Post  Grizz on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:26 am

Kaman led the Hornets vs the Bulls in points, rebounds, AND assists in a close loss to the Bulls in Chicago .. .. wow, you pro-Kaman crowd appear to be right about trying to get K as a Piston... We just didnt have the goods to get Kaman here though .. Would love to have him on the bench as the 3rd big man after we land a good athletic shot blocker sometime over the next decade ..
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Re: FORUM

Post  Linwood on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:40 am

[quote="frankied"]
deusXango wrote:
unfortunately, stuckey has basically been - no pun intended - stuck as the same player since he came into the league. while players like rose have improved, worked on their games and become more complete players.
now, i have to say that while i am impressed with rose and his improvement as a BB player, his play as a PG still leaves much to be desired.
he still does not look to create for others as he should. too often his dominance in games comes from his ability to get to the basket and take just about any defender one-on-one, and his teammates just stand around watching him drive to the basket. often, he ignores wide-open teammates in order to take an off-balance, wild shot. now, it sometimes goes in, but his real value as a point guard will come when he makes that pass to an open teammate with 5 seconds left in a game, instead of tossing up a prayer, behind his head, after acrobatically twisting his way to the rim.
what is most remarkable about him, however, is that he's been able to refine that type of game as well as he has.
he's improved his outside shot to where defenders cannot play him only for his drive.
he's perfected a football-like drive to the basket, complete with a fullback-like grip on the ball, to prevent defenders from stealing it from him as he barrels to the basket. if they even try to steal it, they'll probably have to foul him to get close to the ball.
...
i think that stuckey, unfortunately, is just not that smart. he plays dumb. and his lack of improvement seems like a reflection of his inability to adequately grasp the little things, the subtleties of playing at the guard spot in the nba.
that profile probably fits a 6th man's profile, a "seattle guard" in the mold of jason terry and jamal crawford, a couple of fellow rain city homeboys.
...
imho, stuckey can man the SG spot for a playoff team, though if you want to win a title, he'll probably be best suited as that type of 6th man who comes in and pours in points by the minute, while doing very little else.


I pretty much agree with everything here. One of my personal beefs with Stuckey is that he plays in the "Dwyane Wade Style" Wade is very effective, and certainly leads his team to victories... I just hate watching it. Free throws are boring, and watching a guard stand at the line and shoot free throws 10 or 20 times a game sucks.

Despite the fact that I don't like to watch it, Stuckey is getting better at that game. As you mentioned, he has added a few things to keep the defense a little more honest, and his three point shooting is improving.

With Stuckey and Gordon locked up for years, I don't see any possibility of improvement at the guard position. I think this team improves at the PF, C, and SF positions. I also think that great SF are a little easier to come by than great Centers or Power Forwards.

Getting blown out by Philly was hard on the eyes tonight, but it helps improve the odds just a little bit that we can pick up Davis (please Davis!) or Drummond in the draft.

This team is 3 or 4 years away from truly contending, IMO. Lock up the frontcourt now, and in a few years Stuckey will be a vet, Tay and BG will be gone, Knight will have some experience...

It's all about the future!

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Re: FORUM

Post  frankied on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:44 am

Grizz wrote:this is where I miss Lee's game reports ... Lee357 .. welcome back anytime! .. admit this game would have bee hard to watch without getting sick .. i feel sick just from reading box score Shocked
philly's defense blitzed detroit.
they are young, quick and fast. they attack. they play excellent defense.
they don't have a bunch of old geezers clogging up their rotations.
the only "older" player is brand, a guy they need. everybody else is young and fast and they bring it.
funny, they played nocioni in garbage time.
in garbage time, the pistons were playing a bunch of young guys - daye, macklin - and it was ironic to see the difference in approach.
if nocioni was in detroit, he would probably be the 6th or 7th guy in the rotation.
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Tuurd Droppings Galore at the Palace Tonight

Post  Sissy1946 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:25 am

Went to the game & was sorry I did, the Pistons Schitt themselves tonight, here's the recap, Maxi-Pads with 5 turnovers, 3 missed dunks because he couldn't hang onto the ball, Stuckey with 5 turnovers also, Prince with a 2-10 & 4 points, telling the writers after the game that the team was still on vacation, what a tuurd Tay, Gordon with a 1-10 outing for 3 points & that 3 pointer came in the 4th, poor Blaha & Kelser, I thought they were going to cry, Frank said Look 8 times in the interview & made excuses instead of telling the fans that he was totally embarrassed in their showing & promise the fans that this wouldn't happen again, but no 'Lil Larry took the easy way out. what a Crap team. violin
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Re: FORUM

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