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CV

Post  WTF on Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:02 am

Murph wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:No Grizz I don't bash CV and there are a lot of players in this league and even a couple on the Pistons that are far worst than CV.

I don't bash CV because I've always recognized the type of player he was, so I never put the expection on him becoming all the things many of you want him to be. He never played defense, he never rebounded and these thing was clearly obvious prior to Joe signing him.

IMO 15pts and 4 rebounds is a pretty good bargain for only 7-8 Million a season. If Joe focus was defense and rebounding than signing CV was Joe's fault not CV's. Basically his stats and pay isn't any different than Tay's and every SF in leagues whips on ass nightly.

CV simply has been misused by coaches, if a coach put the expectation of him playing defense and rebounding then they're just as stupid as Joe was. CV for all intended purpose was and is a offensive 6th man intended to strectch defenses. So no I won't be bashing CV and no he's not a bust.

Wise...I'm not sure I understand your arguments defending CV. You logic seems to be, "I knew CV was terrible, so what's the big deal?"

While I give you kudos for recognizing very early just how bad CV is, it doesn't excuse the fact that CV is really, really bad. And he's not just bad...he's also a fat, lazy goof-off who's been stealing money and cap space from the Pistons for years. He's habitually hurt, out of shape, over-weight and lazy.

He played only 13 games last year, and for the 3 years he's been with the Pistons, he's averaging 11 pts and 4 rbds, while shooting 43%.

I think we as Pistons fans forget just how horendously bad Charlie Villanueva really is. We've watched him stink up the place for so long,that we're kind of numb to it. But if you really think about it, Charlie is epically bad.

I can't believe the Pistons don't amnesty his fat lazy butt.


Murph honestly I don't see him as a bad player as much as I see him a player being misused. Question was CV a fat, lazy habitually injured player before Joe signed him. Even the 11pt 4rbs aren't bad at 7 million a season isn't the worst contract in the league.

Yes it would be nice if CV was more fit, and less injured, but you have to be mad at Joe for signing and Kuester for not knowing how to use him the first 2 seasons and that's my logic in not bashing him.

Two things I would have done as a coach with CV was 1. bring him off the bench and 2. played exclusively zone when I had him in games. Problem was CV didn't fit because nothing on the roster fitted, we had a bunch of misfit and sub-par role players most nights playing out of position.

CV was probably the only player on the team that could of have his role truly defined but wasn't allowed to be what he was, because they were too busy trying to make Stuckey a PG, Daye a SG, JMax a C, JJ a PF and Kuester a coach.

Honestly think CV is bash unfairly...

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The most honest 3 1/2 minutes of television

Post  Oracle on Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:29 pm

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Best New Show On Television

Post  WTF on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:29 pm

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Man I love this show, Newsroom is the best thing to happen to television in a very long time. I swear its how I sit wishing the news would actually be like. I like to think MSNBC was close at times but not always perfect.
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HERE'S A COUPLE OF FACTS Y'ALL

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:46 am

In the real competetive Summer League, held in Las Vegas, Scott Machado showed his natural ass for the Houston Rockets, letting the world see that he's a player to be reckoned with, and the Pistons still need a decent backup PG. Anyone that thinks there's a comparison between Machado and Bynum is blind! This is an undrafted player that Joe could wrap up for the next 3-4 years for what Maxiells fat a$$ will make this year alone.

Who starts at SF, Prince or Maggette? Whoever Lil' Larry starts the other one will split time with him leaving nothing in the way of PT for Daye, Singler, or Middleton. Where does Jerebko fit into this equation?

Will Lil' Larry flip a coin on who gets the call between Drummond or Kravstov so that Monroe can begin playing PF, or will Monroe continue to be our center so that Maxiell can remain as our starting PF? What's gonna happen when English begins to obviously, consistently out performing Stuckey? A SG that can shoot and play defense is nothing to sneeze at; a SG that attacks the rim like a SF, but can't finish, is boring, and making free throws doesn't compensate for the lack of defensive focus.

So far the emphasis has been placed on what will Singler, Daye, Drummond, Kravstov, and English do when the big boys show up, but I'm interested in how will Lil' Larry deploy his troops when the big boy coaches show up; coaching is vitally important, and politicing won't get it done Mr. Frank.
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Great Post!

Post  Grizz on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:28 am

deusXango wrote:In the real competetive Summer League, held in Las Vegas, Scott Machado showed his natural ass for the Houston Rockets, letting the world see that he's a player to be reckoned with, and the Pistons still need a decent backup PG. Anyone that thinks there's a comparison between Machado and Bynum is blind! This is an undrafted player that Joe could wrap up for the next 3-4 years for what Maxiells fat a$$ will make this year alone.

Who starts at SF, Prince or Maggette? Whoever Lil' Larry starts the other one will split time with him leaving nothing in the way of PT for Daye, Singler, or Middleton. Where does Jerebko fit into this equation?

Will Lil' Larry flip a coin on who gets the call between Drummond or Kravstov so that Monroe can begin playing PF, or will Monroe continue to be our center so that Maxiell can remain as our starting PF? What's gonna happen when English begins to obviously, consistently out performing Stuckey? A SG that can shoot and play defense is nothing to sneeze at; a SG that attacks the rim like a SF, but can't finish, is boring, and making free throws doesn't compensate for the lack of defensive focus.

So far the emphasis has been placed on what will Singler, Daye, Drummond, Kravstov, and English do when the big boys show up, but I'm interested in how will Lil' Larry deploy his troops when the big boy coaches show up; coaching is vitally important, and politicing won't get it done Mr. Frank.

DX, A lot of great points ... we do need another PG not named Bynum ... And this is the year LF needs to have his shit together because Dumars has the team about 75 percent set at all positions instead of the usual 33% .. SF is a log jam but ....what else is new?! .. I do not think the Pistons think this is a problem nor that we only have 1 good PG ... Razz . A big measure of having our shit together is how soon Monroe slides over to PF while Drummond takes on Center full time .. If it never happens next season . fire everyone .... on the other hand, NBA.com commentators made it sound like Drummond WILL start from the git go ..
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Mr. Tom Gores

Post  Murph on Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:37 am

You know what's really encouraging? The amount of money Mr. Gores is investing into the Pistons. Not only did he sink $10 million into the Palace for much needed renovations, but he doesn't have much problem spending on team payroll either.

According to Hoopshype, the Pistons already have $65 million committed to it's 2012-13 payroll, and that's without the contracts of Singler and Kravtsov. I figure Singler should make about $700,000 this year, while Kravtsov should make about $2.5 million. So that Pistons must be committed to spending roughly $68 or $69 million on this year's payroll.

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Now, the soft cap still sits at around $58 million, while the luxury cap kicks in at $70 million. So Gores and the Pistons are spending right up to that luxury cap level, which is by far the largest payroll the Pistons have ever had. And in fact, the Pistons will have the 4th or 5th highest payroll in the NBA for this year alone.

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All indications are that Mr. Gores will be willing to spend what it takes to build a winning franchise long term, which will be important moving forward, when the Pistons will have to spend lavishly to retain the services of Monroe, Knight and Drummond, as their rookie contracts expire.

In the past, I always got the feeling Mr. Davidson and Joe always started dismantling their veteran teams almost immedicately after they started winning, because Mr. Davidson was never willing to spend what it took to retain his own talent (think Big Ben, Afflalo, Amir, Mike James, etc.).

Mr. Gores seems much more willing to invest in his team longer term. dance dance dance
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:54 pm

deusXango wrote:In the real competetive Summer League, held in Las Vegas, Scott Machado showed his natural ass for the Houston Rockets, letting the world see that he's a player to be reckoned with, and the Pistons still need a decent backup PG. Anyone that thinks there's a comparison between Machado and Bynum is blind! This is an undrafted player that Joe could wrap up for the next 3-4 years for what Maxiells fat a$$ will make this year alone.

Who starts at SF, Prince or Maggette? Whoever Lil' Larry starts the other one will split time with him leaving nothing in the way of PT for Daye, Singler, or Middleton. Where does Jerebko fit into this equation?

Will Lil' Larry flip a coin on who gets the call between Drummond or Kravstov so that Monroe can begin playing PF, or will Monroe continue to be our center so that Maxiell can remain as our starting PF? What's gonna happen when English begins to obviously, consistently out performing Stuckey? A SG that can shoot and play defense is nothing to sneeze at; a SG that attacks the rim like a SF, but can't finish, is boring, and making free throws doesn't compensate for the lack of defensive focus.
So far the emphasis has been placed on what will Singler, Daye, Drummond, Kravstov, and English do when the big boys show up, but I'm interested in how will Lil' Larry deploy his troops when the big boy coaches show up; coaching is vitally important, and politicing won't get it done Mr. Frank.

Deus, no need to bash Stuckey. A little competition from English can only be good for all. If English can truly ball at this level there is presently plenty of room for both of them. Don't overlook the value of being able to draw a foul. Sometimes it's the only way to stop a hot shooting opponent, and for now Stuck is far and away our best at it.

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There's no Cryin .......

Post  lemonpen on Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:05 pm

I couldn't believe my ears last night when the sports reporter quoted BeeGee as being bitter and angry about being traded. Waaaaaa !!!!!!!!

He has recently purchased a BIG house and had a baby. Waaaaaaa !!!!!!!!!

That's can't compare to the buckets of tears shed by Piston fans over three seasons of his sorry ass performances.

Man, that dude should have kissed Joe's powdered sugar coated feet for giving his career a fresh start. The nerve.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:13 pm

lemonpen wrote:
deusXango wrote:In the real competetive Summer League, held in Las Vegas, Scott Machado showed his natural ass for the Houston Rockets, letting the world see that he's a player to be reckoned with, and the Pistons still need a decent backup PG. Anyone that thinks there's a comparison between Machado and Bynum is blind! This is an undrafted player that Joe could wrap up for the next 3-4 years for what Maxiells fat a$$ will make this year alone.

Who starts at SF, Prince or Maggette? Whoever Lil' Larry starts the other one will split time with him leaving nothing in the way of PT for Daye, Singler, or Middleton. Where does Jerebko fit into this equation?

Will Lil' Larry flip a coin on who gets the call between Drummond or Kravstov so that Monroe can begin playing PF, or will Monroe continue to be our center so that Maxiell can remain as our starting PF? What's gonna happen when English begins to obviously, consistently out performing Stuckey? A SG that can shoot and play defense is nothing to sneeze at; a SG that attacks the rim like a SF, but can't finish, is boring, and making free throws doesn't compensate for the lack of defensive focus.
So far the emphasis has been placed on what will Singler, Daye, Drummond, Kravstov, and English do when the big boys show up, but I'm interested in how will Lil' Larry deploy his troops when the big boy coaches show up; coaching is vitally important, and politicing won't get it done Mr. Frank.

Deus, no need to bash Stuckey. A little competition from English can only be good for all. If English can truly ball at this level there is presently plenty of room for both of them. Don't overlook the value of being able to draw a foul. Sometimes it's the only way to stop a hot shooting opponent, and for now Stuck is far and away our best at it.

Lemonpen I do not believe that deus is bashing Stuckey. He is only stating the facts. Stuckey has not shown any ability to concentrate on the defensive end consistantly. In fact, if you look at his entire career, he must be classified as a player who loses focus on the game plan more often than not on both ends. We read that Stuckey is really working out hard this summer. He has the body and the necessary skills. However, we fans can only base things on what we have seen in the past and we do not trust his mental approach to the game of basketball much of the time. Stuckey is not the worst of the group of players who have under performed for the past 4 years. He is far better than most of those in that group. I am not upset that Stuckey is still on the team but I am upset that Dumars is going to come back with much of the core who have stunk it up and given a really weak effort while collecting lots of money. It is time to make room for a new group and give them enough playing time to develop some positive chemistry. I want to see some of the new guys get playing time at small forward, power forward, center, and shooting guard. We need another new player to back up Knight at point guard. Nobody wants to watch Maxiell, Charlie V, Bynum, either of the vet small forwards, or Daye for that matter. And I love Prince so it hurts to say that. Can or will Dumars try to trade any of those players before training camp? Play the young guys and lose this season while landing a high draft pick next summer to properly build this new team. I would love to see the Pistons land a top 3 pick in the next draft.

Behind the scenes, powerful agents push GMs to allow their clients to get playing time when their players is closing in on the end of their contracts. GMs have to deal with those agents. So do we fans get the best possible product to pull for during any given season? I am not sure.


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Time for a good Laugh?

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:32 pm

This guy cracks me up near the end of this, when he explains his disposition, take a look.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:47 pm

Oracle wrote:This guy cracks me up near the end of this, when he explains his disposition, take a look.

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Thanks Oracle. That guy sure looks great at 94 years of age. Wish that Joe Dumars would say what he said at the end to Charlie V and a few other players.

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Re: FORUM

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:36 pm

cool breeze wrote:
Oracle wrote:This guy cracks me up near the end of this, when he explains his disposition, take a look.

Thanks Oracle. That guy sure looks great at 94 years of age. Wish that Joe Dumars would say what he said at the end to Charlie V and a few other players.

LOL Don, that's EXACTLY what I want him to say to CV!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:46 pm

cool breeze wrote:
lemonpen wrote:
deusXango wrote:In the real competetive Summer League, held in Las Vegas, Scott Machado showed his natural ass for the Houston Rockets, letting the world see that he's a player to be reckoned with, and the Pistons still need a decent backup PG. Anyone that thinks there's a comparison between Machado and Bynum is blind! This is an undrafted player that Joe could wrap up for the next 3-4 years for what Maxiells fat a$$ will make this year alone.

Who starts at SF, Prince or Maggette? Whoever Lil' Larry starts the other one will split time with him leaving nothing in the way of PT for Daye, Singler, or Middleton. Where does Jerebko fit into this equation?

Will Lil' Larry flip a coin on who gets the call between Drummond or Kravstov so that Monroe can begin playing PF, or will Monroe continue to be our center so that Maxiell can remain as our starting PF? What's gonna happen when English begins to obviously, consistently out performing Stuckey? A SG that can shoot and play defense is nothing to sneeze at; a SG that attacks the rim like a SF, but can't finish, is boring, and making free throws doesn't compensate for the lack of defensive focus.
So far the emphasis has been placed on what will Singler, Daye, Drummond, Kravstov, and English do when the big boys show up, but I'm interested in how will Lil' Larry deploy his troops when the big boy coaches show up; coaching is vitally important, and politicing won't get it done Mr. Frank.

Deus, no need to bash Stuckey. A little competition from English can only be good for all. If English can truly ball at this level there is presently plenty of room for both of them. Don't overlook the value of being able to draw a foul. Sometimes it's the only way to stop a hot shooting opponent, and for now Stuck is far and away our best at it.

Lemonpen I do not believe that deus is bashing Stuckey. He is only stating the facts. Stuckey has not shown any ability to concentrate on the defensive end consistantly. In fact, if you look at his entire career, he must be classified as a player who loses focus on the game plan more often than not on both ends. We read that Stuckey is really working out hard this summer. He has the body and the necessary skills. However, we fans can only base things on what we have seen in the past and we do not trust his mental approach to the game of basketball much of the time. Stuckey is not the worst of the group of players who have under performed for the past 4 years. He is far better than most of those in that group. I am not upset that Stuckey is still on the team but I am upset that Dumars is going to come back with much of the core who have stunk it up and given a really weak effort while collecting lots of money. It is time to make room for a new group and give them enough playing time to develop some positive chemistry. I want to see some of the new guys get playing time at small forward, power forward, center, and shooting guard. We need another new player to back up Knight at point guard. Nobody wants to watch Maxiell, Charlie V, Bynum, either of the vet small forwards, or Daye for that matter. And I love Prince so it hurts to say that. Can or will Dumars try to trade any of those players before training camp? Play the young guys and lose this season while landing a high draft pick next summer to properly build this new team. I would love to see the Pistons land a top 3 pick in the next draft.

Behind the scenes, powerful agents push GMs to allow their clients to get playing time when their players is closing in on the end of their contracts. GMs have to deal with those agents. So do we fans get the best possible product to pull for during any given season? I am not sure.


cool breeze

ok, not bashing. It's just that I thought Stuckey was a plesant surprise last season, after being moved exclusively to SG. Matter of fact I thought the opposite of his D. There were instances last season when Knight was being abused in late game situations that Frank swiched the defensive assignment to Stuckey who sucessfully cooled the hot guy.
I wouldn't worry about opportunities for English. Given our current roster he will have to play.

I'm with Gores, make the playoffs, screw another lottery pick.
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TO BASH, OR NOT TO BASH, THAT'S THE QUESTION

Post  deusXango on Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:15 pm

Lemon Pen, I've long admired your cutting edge insights so I find myself somewhat surprised that you felt I was bashing Stuckey. Granted, last year after being moved to SG, Stuckey enjoyed his best season as a Piston. He played a more balanced game, and freed up from offensive facilitating responsibilitys, didn't make as many boneheaded plays. He looked good on a team struggleing to achieve respectability. That being said, I saw fools gold.

SG's should be able to shoot the rock; mid-range to long range. Every so often a SG will attack the basket, but not as an offensive main staple. SF's generally attack the rim, either from set plays or getting out on breaks and filling lanes. All I stated was English seems to potentially play a more complete SG game, and should he convinceingly win the "competition" what will be the outcome? Will he continue to come off the bench or will Stuckey become the 3rd guard? It's great that Stuckey can shut down PG's, but what's he doing with the leagues SG's? I think fans will see that English can guard all the perimeter positions, and guard them well. My "bashing" Stuckey was a statement toward improving the overall quality of the team. I've stated before, and I will say it again, keep Stuckey for the duration of his contract, but that doesn't mean starting him is etched in stone; Stuckey is not a starter on a championship caliber team ala Lindsey Hunter! Like Hunter who we tried to make a star, but found his greatest success as a contributor, I think that we'll get the most out of Stuckey as a contributor. The only 6th man I'd replace him with today is James Harden, but on this team Harden wouldn't be a bench player.

I want to see our SF's attacking the rim, and going to the line. I want to see our SF's out on the breaks, recieving passes, and finishing. Give me an athletic "3" who's an exciting slasher, and I'll buy a ticket to the Palace, other than that, I'm sitting in front of the T.V. set.

Why haven't we signed Scott Machado? What's Joe waiting on? Why no movement with Daye and Bynum? If Big Ben's coming back, I'd rather have him than Maxiell for one more year! Daye, Bynum, and Maxiell for Wallace, Machado, and a draft pick. Make sense anyone? That's a foundation for a bash. I'm going on vacation for a couple of weeks, so hopefully some team personel changes will have been made by my return.
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FLIP ALERT

Post  deusXango on Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:38 pm

Anyone that can contact Flip for me (or help me themselves) I'd appreciate it. I've got 4 "locked" mains on my home page: DeusXango, Grizz, Sebastian, and WiseFan, plus a locked archive for myself. The locked mains are growing like rabbits or deer, and I want to be rid of them (no offense fellas), and I don't know how to remove them. That and the "chicken lady" are a little trying. Thanks for whatever help I can get.
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Flip on Locked Mains

Post  Oracle on Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:15 pm

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:09 pm

deusXango wrote:Lemon Pen, I've long admired your cutting edge insights so I find myself somewhat surprised that you felt I was bashing Stuckey. Granted, last year after being moved to SG, Stuckey enjoyed his best season as a Piston. He played a more balanced game, and freed up from offensive facilitating responsibilitys, didn't make as many boneheaded plays. He looked good on a team struggleing to achieve respectability. That being said, I saw fools gold.

SG's should be able to shoot the rock; mid-range to long range. Every so often a SG will attack the basket, but not as an offensive main staple. SF's generally attack the rim, either from set plays or getting out on breaks and filling lanes. All I stated was English seems to potentially play a more complete SG game, and should he convinceingly win the "competition" what will be the outcome? Will he continue to come off the bench or will Stuckey become the 3rd guard? It's great that Stuckey can shut down PG's, but what's he doing with the leagues SG's? I think fans will see that English can guard all the perimeter positions, and guard them well. My "bashing" Stuckey was a statement toward improving the overall quality of the team. I've stated before, and I will say it again, keep Stuckey for the duration of his contract, but that doesn't mean starting him is etched in stone; Stuckey is not a starter on a championship caliber team ala Lindsey Hunter! Like Hunter who we tried to make a star, but found his greatest success as a contributor, I think that we'll get the most out of Stuckey as a contributor. The only 6th man I'd replace him with today is James Harden, but on this team Harden wouldn't be a bench player.

I want to see our SF's attacking the rim, and going to the line. I want to see our SF's out on the breaks, recieving passes, and finishing. Give me an athletic "3" who's an exciting slasher, and I'll buy a ticket to the Palace, other than that, I'm sitting in front of the T.V. set.

Why haven't we signed Scott Machado? What's Joe waiting on? Why no movement with Daye and Bynum? If Big Ben's coming back, I'd rather have him than Maxiell for one more year! Daye, Bynum, and Maxiell for Wallace, Machado, and a draft pick. Make sense anyone? That's a foundation for a bash. I'm going on vacation for a couple of weeks, so hopefully some team personel changes will have been made by my return.

dues have a great vacation but don't expect much will have been accomplished before your return. Dumars might not even know anything about Machado who I agree would help this Piston team. Nobody wants Bynum, Maxiell, Daye or the contract of Charlie V. And don't think for a minute that Dumars has relationships with agents who represent and those 4 players. During the past few years, very little of what Dumars did made any sense. Why was it that Dumars made those comments about Maxiell's mid range jump shot being greatly improved when anyone in their right mind saw how Cleveland dominated Maxiell when he played a lot of minutes against Cleveland when the Pistons last made the playoffs. I believe that once a team actually makes the playoffs, management can properly judge the potential of their players. It was clear as a bell to me that whatever Maxiell might do during a regular season, any opponent who makes the playoffs will target Maxiell as a weak link to the Pistons. Maxiell lost weight and played real hard this past season and I pulled for him. But notice that no team was interested when his agent shopped him before he announced that he would return. Maxiell's agent needs his client to get playing time on this Piston team this coming season. The same can be said for Daye and Bynum. Is there a conspiracy between GMs and agents which can transfer to playing time for players who have not earned the playing time? Some of the agents are very wealthy and powerful people. A few agents represent a lot of NBA players. Is Frank a person who can be bullied and told who to play and when to play them regardless of what is going on in practice, the locker room or the actual games? A friend who had an association in management at the NBA level mentioned that this kind of stuff has gone on some teams. I noticed that a recent "Bleacher report" mentioned that Singler might earn the starting assignment for the Pistons this season. English is a very good defender who Frank should love coaching. The new Russian player and Drummond should get minutes, but what if none of those players see much action and the Pistons are losing games? Bynum couldn't make it at Arizona because of his weak defense and he couldn't handle the point guard responsibilities. He is a 2 guard who cannot guard either guard position very well and he is not known as a good passer on offense. Why was he re signed when Dumars was supposed to be building a new team? Can anyone figure that out? And how did Dumars believe that Daye would fit his new team if he know how poorly he defended players in college? Did Dumars have a plan to build a new team at all three years ago? Maybe Joe will write a book and explain that someday. I am with you DX but will not be surprised if it is business as usual at the Palace this season.

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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:13 pm

cool breeze wrote:
deusXango wrote:Lemon Pen, I've long admired your cutting edge insights so I find myself somewhat surprised that you felt I was bashing Stuckey. Granted, last year after being moved to SG, Stuckey enjoyed his best season as a Piston. He played a more balanced game, and freed up from offensive facilitating responsibilitys, didn't make as many boneheaded plays. He looked good on a team struggleing to achieve respectability. That being said, I saw fools gold.

SG's should be able to shoot the rock; mid-range to long range. Every so often a SG will attack the basket, but not as an offensive main staple. SF's generally attack the rim, either from set plays or getting out on breaks and filling lanes. All I stated was English seems to potentially play a more complete SG game, and should he convinceingly win the "competition" what will be the outcome? Will he continue to come off the bench or will Stuckey become the 3rd guard? It's great that Stuckey can shut down PG's, but what's he doing with the leagues SG's? I think fans will see that English can guard all the perimeter positions, and guard them well. My "bashing" Stuckey was a statement toward improving the overall quality of the team. I've stated before, and I will say it again, keep Stuckey for the duration of his contract, but that doesn't mean starting him is etched in stone; Stuckey is not a starter on a championship caliber team ala Lindsey Hunter! Like Hunter who we tried to make a star, but found his greatest success as a contributor, I think that we'll get the most out of Stuckey as a contributor. The only 6th man I'd replace him with today is James Harden, but on this team Harden wouldn't be a bench player.

I want to see our SF's attacking the rim, and going to the line. I want to see our SF's out on the breaks, recieving passes, and finishing. Give me an athletic "3" who's an exciting slasher, and I'll buy a ticket to the Palace, other than that, I'm sitting in front of the T.V. set.

Why haven't we signed Scott Machado? What's Joe waiting on? Why no movement with Daye and Bynum? If Big Ben's coming back, I'd rather have him than Maxiell for one more year! Daye, Bynum, and Maxiell for Wallace, Machado, and a draft pick. Make sense anyone? That's a foundation for a bash. I'm going on vacation for a couple of weeks, so hopefully some team personel changes will have been made by my return.

dues have a great vacation but don't expect much will have been accomplished before your return. Dumars might not even know anything about Machado who I agree would help this Piston team. Nobody wants Bynum, Maxiell, Daye or the contract of Charlie V. And don't think for a minute that Dumars has relationships with agents who represent and those 4 players. During the past few years, very little of what Dumars did made any sense. Why was it that Dumars made those comments about Maxiell's mid range jump shot being greatly improved when anyone in their right mind saw how Cleveland dominated Maxiell when he played a lot of minutes against Cleveland when the Pistons last made the playoffs. I believe that once a team actually makes the playoffs, management can properly judge the potential of their players. It was clear as a bell to me that whatever Maxiell might do during a regular season, any opponent who makes the playoffs will target Maxiell as a weak link to the Pistons. Maxiell lost weight and played real hard this past season and I pulled for him. But notice that no team was interested when his agent shopped him before he announced that he would return. Maxiell's agent needs his client to get playing time on this Piston team this coming season. The same can be said for Daye and Bynum. Is there a conspiracy between GMs and agents which can transfer to playing time for players who have not earned the playing time? Some of the agents are very wealthy and powerful people. A few agents represent a lot of NBA players. Is Frank a person who can be bullied and told who to play and when to play them regardless of what is going on in practice, the locker room or the actual games? A friend who had an association in management at the NBA level mentioned that this kind of stuff has gone on some teams. I noticed that a recent "Bleacher report" mentioned that Singler might earn the starting assignment for the Pistons this season. English is a very good defender who Frank should love coaching. The new Russian player and Drummond should get minutes, but what if none of those players see much action and the Pistons are losing games? Bynum couldn't make it at Arizona because of his weak defense and he couldn't handle the point guard responsibilities. He is a 2 guard who cannot guard either guard position very well and he is not known as a good passer on offense. Why was he re signed when Dumars was supposed to be building a new team? Can anyone figure that out? And how did Dumars believe that Daye would fit his new team if he know how poorly he defended players in college? Did Dumars have a plan to build a new team at all three years ago? Maybe Joe will write a book and explain that someday. I am with you DX but will not be surprised if it is business as usual at the Palace this season.


Cool, que the Black Eyed Peas music........ guitar

I gotta feeling Whooooo Whoooooo. this just might be a disappointing year for you bro.

The BIG guy already proclaimed his desire to rub elbows with playoff level ownership. Larry isn't about to come up short, (pardon the pun), without a really good excuse. You can bet JMax, Tay, Daye or Magettee will block one of the kids. I already figure Middleton is toast. And you can rest assured we all will suffer the fans greatest conundrum of having to root for a guy having a 2x career year, that you really wanted gone before the season began. One of them expiring deals is gonna play like a mutha.

Have a great vacation Deus. And I admitted "bashing" was too strong.
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Wow .. Laughing good on that one ..

Post  Grizz on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:59 pm

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Chicken Skank Lady, Locked Mains .. What's effin next?! lol
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Another Great Post Don...

Post  Grizz on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:05 pm

cool breeze wrote:
deusXango wrote:Lemon Pen, I've long admired your cutting edge insights so I find myself somewhat surprised that you felt I was bashing Stuckey. Granted, last year after being moved to SG, Stuckey enjoyed his best season as a Piston. He played a more balanced game, and freed up from offensive facilitating responsibilitys, didn't make as many boneheaded plays. He looked good on a team struggleing to achieve respectability. That being said, I saw fools gold.

SG's should be able to shoot the rock; mid-range to long range. Every so often a SG will attack the basket, but not as an offensive main staple. SF's generally attack the rim, either from set plays or getting out on breaks and filling lanes. All I stated was English seems to potentially play a more complete SG game, and should he convinceingly win the "competition" what will be the outcome? Will he continue to come off the bench or will Stuckey become the 3rd guard? It's great that Stuckey can shut down PG's, but what's he doing with the leagues SG's? I think fans will see that English can guard all the perimeter positions, and guard them well. My "bashing" Stuckey was a statement toward improving the overall quality of the team. I've stated before, and I will say it again, keep Stuckey for the duration of his contract, but that doesn't mean starting him is etched in stone; Stuckey is not a starter on a championship caliber team ala Lindsey Hunter! Like Hunter who we tried to make a star, but found his greatest success as a contributor, I think that we'll get the most out of Stuckey as a contributor. The only 6th man I'd replace him with today is James Harden, but on this team Harden wouldn't be a bench player.

I want to see our SF's attacking the rim, and going to the line. I want to see our SF's out on the breaks, recieving passes, and finishing. Give me an athletic "3" who's an exciting slasher, and I'll buy a ticket to the Palace, other than that, I'm sitting in front of the T.V. set.

Why haven't we signed Scott Machado? What's Joe waiting on? Why no movement with Daye and Bynum? If Big Ben's coming back, I'd rather have him than Maxiell for one more year! Daye, Bynum, and Maxiell for Wallace, Machado, and a draft pick. Make sense anyone? That's a foundation for a bash. I'm going on vacation for a couple of weeks, so hopefully some team personel changes will have been made by my return.

dues have a great vacation but don't expect much will have been accomplished before your return. Dumars might not even know anything about Machado who I agree would help this Piston team. Nobody wants Bynum, Maxiell, Daye or the contract of Charlie V. And don't think for a minute that Dumars has relationships with agents who represent and those 4 players. During the past few years, very little of what Dumars did made any sense. Why was it that Dumars made those comments about Maxiell's mid range jump shot being greatly improved when anyone in their right mind saw how Cleveland dominated Maxiell when he played a lot of minutes against Cleveland when the Pistons last made the playoffs. I believe that once a team actually makes the playoffs, management can properly judge the potential of their players. It was clear as a bell to me that whatever Maxiell might do during a regular season, any opponent who makes the playoffs will target Maxiell as a weak link to the Pistons. Maxiell lost weight and played real hard this past season and I pulled for him. But notice that no team was interested when his agent shopped him before he announced that he would return. Maxiell's agent needs his client to get playing time on this Piston team this coming season. The same can be said for Daye and Bynum. Is there a conspiracy between GMs and agents which can transfer to playing time for players who have not earned the playing time? Some of the agents are very wealthy and powerful people. A few agents represent a lot of NBA players. Is Frank a person who can be bullied and told who to play and when to play them regardless of what is going on in practice, the locker room or the actual games? A friend who had an association in management at the NBA level mentioned that this kind of stuff has gone on some teams. I noticed that a recent "Bleacher report" mentioned that Singler might earn the starting assignment for the Pistons this season. English is a very good defender who Frank should love coaching. The new Russian player and Drummond should get minutes, but what if none of those players see much action and the Pistons are losing games? Bynum couldn't make it at Arizona because of his weak defense and he couldn't handle the point guard responsibilities. He is a 2 guard who cannot guard either guard position very well and he is not known as a good passer on offense. Why was he re signed when Dumars was supposed to be building a new team? Can anyone figure that out? And how did Dumars believe that Daye would fit his new team if he know how poorly he defended players in college? Did Dumars have a plan to build a new team at all three years ago? Maybe Joe will write a book and explain that someday. I am with you DX but will not be surprised if it is business as usual at the Palace this season.

Yeah . that there is definitely a core of players that are UNWANTED by anyone in the NBA at ANY PRICE.... Oh well . it used to be ALL OUR PLAYERS were UNWANTED ... So trade dreamers, dream on! It aint happening... Lil Larry is going to have to have his best year of coaching ever to integrate and develop the talent so that we win now and improve our team simultaneously .. By the time this season is over, we will know if Frank is our Championship Coach of the future or not .. Really happy that: A. Singler wanted to play here .. and B. He has looked so good in Summer League .. English too for that matter .. C. Our future star starters are going to be Knight, Drummond and Monroe. Ben W should not come back .. but retire his number before Joe gives it away ..
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Moose on The Loose

Post  Grizz on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:34 am

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Goodwill Sucks

Post  WTF on Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:21 pm

From Vince Goodwill,

Don't blame the players if they don't live up to their contracts in the next few years. Don't blame the agents, either, because Lord knows we'd all like to be "overpaid" at our respective jobs.

From The Detroit News: [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

This from a man that won't say a bad word about Joe and the dumb things he's done.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:33 pm

WISEFAN wrote:From Vince Goodwill,

Don't blame the players if they don't live up to their contracts in the next few years. Don't blame the agents, either, because Lord knows we'd all like to be "overpaid" at our respective jobs.

From The Detroit News: [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

This from a man that won't say a bad word about Joe and the dumb things he's done.

Great point Wisefan! And Goodwill will seldom say anything negative about the Piston players especially those players who were so cocky they refused to attend a practice at an away game. The Detroit News reporters are politically correct wimps. More papers would be sold if they did their jobs correctly. The players, coaches, GM and the owner would be more concerned about doing things right if the reporters did their jobs. Hummm can anyone guess why they are so blind???

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Do the lawyers run the NBA?

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:29 pm

How much power and control do the agents have concerning how the NBA is run? Do the agents wine and dine the GMs and owners as well as the front office. It would be a mistake to think that their impact is minimal regarding the way officials make calls, which teams the key players end up on, or decisions made by GMs regarding their rosters. The list is endless as to how they influence the NBA game.

I am still puzzled as to how the NBA front office remained so cocky when so many complaints were made as to how Miami received so many favorable calls in every playoff series this year. The big show must go on. Labron much improve the ratings of the late night shows. This playoff season appeared to me to be the most corrupt of all time. Someday, this house of cards will come tumbling down and fans will simply walk away from the game. It will take the form of the fans actually walking away and eliminating the game from their lives. Currently we fans are under a NBA spell and continue to support those teams that never seem to land a Labron James and if they do, somehow that player goes AWOL. We should just count ourselves lucky that Isiah Thomas remained a Piston for his entire career and didn't leave for the Lakers to play with his now ex friend, Magic. Isn't it sweet that Labron gets to play with his real buddies Wade, Bosh and the supporting cast who must get their rings. It is such a love fest and we are all supposed to buy NBA gear and feel lucky the NBA settled their dispute and played those horrible games during the regular season. How much loyalty will the current group of Pistons have if they have breakout years? Better watch who their agents might be to determine what will happen to our Pistons.

Maybe the NBA should scrap the idea of using elite players and just create a league where only men who have attended law school at either Harvard or Yale get to start. Graduates of all other law schools must be considered back ups as they lack certain cultural assets. Suit up David Stern and give him a one year contract. Watch him wattle down the court and see if he can run faster than Charlie V ever did. Did Stern ever play basketball? Those kind of questions will not be asked by Mr. Goodwill. If the NBA scraps the current set up and releases all the current players, then the league will need to fire the officials which would really be a shame. The New officials will also need to have their law degrees and various Phony certificates certified by the court system to advise every fan to breath easy knowing that all officials have graduated from an Ivy League school. The ACLU can make sure everything is fair and balanced and will act as the Human Resources department for the NBA. The cheerleaders do not need to be law school graduates or have a high school degree. Being that this is a lawyers league, the front office will require all cheerleaders to sign an agreement that they will not file any sexual harrassment charges against the players and will agree to cheer wearing no underwear whenever the home team comes home and plays a back to back game. If teams that have over 50% of the players admitting that they are openly gay, then the Human Resources Department must hire an entire gay cheerleading squad. A lotery will be set up in all NBA cities and those citizens with the lowest numbers will be forced to purchase season tickets much like the lotery in the Vietnam war. The rest of us will automatically receive a bill for $260.00 and will be forced to sign up for the NBA package. This will be a special local tax you won't need to pay until April so don't worry much about the cost. Do any of you have a favorite attorney you would wish to select to play for the Pistons under this set up? Would some of us crazy Piston fans still watch? Or would be forced to watch??? Everyone thinks change is good don't they? It would be interesting to read the articles on the Pistons with this type of set up.

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Another awesome post, Don

Post  Grizz on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:55 am

cool breeze wrote:How much power and control do the agents have concerning how the NBA is run? Do the agents wine and dine the GMs and owners as well as the front office. It would be a mistake to think that their impact is minimal regarding the way officials make calls, which teams the key players end up on, or decisions made by GMs regarding their rosters. The list is endless as to how they influence the NBA game.

I am still puzzled as to how the NBA front office remained so cocky when so many complaints were made as to how Miami received so many favorable calls in every playoff series this year. The big show must go on. Labron much improve the ratings of the late night shows. This playoff season appeared to me to be the most corrupt of all time. Someday, this house of cards will come tumbling down and fans will simply walk away from the game. It will take the form of the fans actually walking away and eliminating the game from their lives. Currently we fans are under a NBA spell and continue to support those teams that never seem to land a Labron James and if they do, somehow that player goes AWOL. We should just count ourselves lucky that Isiah Thomas remained a Piston for his entire career and didn't leave for the Lakers to play with his now ex friend, Magic. Isn't it sweet that Labron gets to play with his real buddies Wade, Bosh and the supporting cast who must get their rings. It is such a love fest and we are all supposed to buy NBA gear and feel lucky the NBA settled their dispute and played those horrible games during the regular season. How much loyalty will the current group of Pistons have if they have breakout years? Better watch who their agents might be to determine what will happen to our Pistons.

Maybe the NBA should scrap the idea of using elite players and just create a league where only men who have attended law school at either Harvard or Yale get to start. Graduates of all other law schools must be considered back ups as they lack certain cultural assets. Suit up David Stern and give him a one year contract. Watch him wattle down the court and see if he can run faster than Charlie V ever did. Did Stern ever play basketball? Those kind of questions will not be asked by Mr. Goodwill. If the NBA scraps the current set up and releases all the current players, then the league will need to fire the officials which would really be a shame. The New officials will also need to have their law degrees and various Phony certificates certified by the court system to advise every fan to breath easy knowing that all officials have graduated from an Ivy League school. The ACLU can make sure everything is fair and balanced and will act as the Human Resources department for the NBA. The cheerleaders do not need to be law school graduates or have a high school degree. Being that this is a lawyers league, the front office will require all cheerleaders to sign an agreement that they will not file any sexual harrassment charges against the players and will agree to cheer wearing no underwear whenever the home team comes home and plays a back to back game. If teams that have over 50% of the players admitting that they are openly gay, then the Human Resources Department must hire an entire gay cheerleading squad. A lotery will be set up in all NBA cities and those citizens with the lowest numbers will be forced to purchase season tickets much like the lotery in the Vietnam war. The rest of us will automatically receive a bill for $260.00 and will be forced to sign up for the NBA package. This will be a special local tax you won't need to pay until April so don't worry much about the cost. Do any of you have a favorite attorney you would wish to select to play for the Pistons under this set up? Would some of us crazy Piston fans still watch? Or would be forced to watch??? Everyone thinks change is good don't they? It would be interesting to read the articles on the Pistons with this type of set up.

Cool Breeze . thanks for venting because it helps me to realize I am not the only one hyperventilating in rage at Stern's NBA .. Stern has to be taken down .. The NBA has become a joke based on the way the 2012 play-off games were called .. far more WHAT THE EFF than ever before .. 2005 ..2006 .. 1988 . Those could very well be years we all remember fondly as championship years but they are NOT .. Cuz Stern and his refs could not / cannot get their hands out of each others wallets and pantyhose .. As the Pistons develop a team worthy of contention . NONE of us want this new generation of contending Detroit Piston teams to have to take any more bullshit via Stern choosing the winners..
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