Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

Don...every time I read one of your posts, I want to commit suicide.  Geesh. Pass the weapon of the day, I'm with you   You obviously get no joy whatsoever by following the Pistons; they obviously make you angry and depressed.  So why don't you follow another team.  Or at least stop crapping all over this forum. He can't help himself, if you look at his posts, one day he's positive, the next he's negative... could there be a medication issue here???


On Brown, I'm going to throw out his sophomore year completely, and pretend it never happened.  I'm guessing he was hurt through most of last season, and tried to play through the injury, and finally gave up and had surgery.  I'm hoping he's fully recovered from that injury, by the time summer league begins, and then I'm going to judge him on his performance in summer league.



If healthy, I'm guessing he'll be active, athletic, defensive minded, an excellent rebounder, and have great hops and a great motor.  

Will he ever be able to shoot adequately in the NBA?  Who knows?  He shot 35% from the 3 point line and 74% from the free throw line his freshman year in college, which isn't terrible.  He's going to have to work on is shooting, passing and handles, but I'd like to see him develop into the Pistons 3rd string PG, behind a veteran starter and RJ coming off the bench.

Murph, let's be clear, neither of these guys is from Arizona or any other team that Don follows, so by default they're suspect. They're either dumb, no motor, can't play defense, or consistently get out of the bed on the wrong side every day. in short, they can't win 

My advice: Enjoy don on his good days and throw out the bad ones... at least that's what I'm trying to do.

However, DX has some sage advice as well:

Don, cool your jets and let's not make this about your inside knowledge and lengthy observations about all things basketball. I willingly take a backseat to you in those areas but, I can't imagine you defending Reggie against the possibilities of freeing Detroit of this albatross, if for no other reason, HE DOESN'T PLAY DEFENSE!!! Defense! Your pet peeve is players that don't play defense (real or imagined) up to your lofty standards. You call for Drummonds expulsion from the team for lack of defensive excellence (with no options to replace him) but, you defend Reggie? You my brother but, you worry me sometime.

We long suffering Pistons fans seem to be experiencing a positive turnaround so let's enjoy the here and now.

Please allow Don to vent the level of frustration is understandable it's been a long time since the organization has been relevant and not really saying it is now.   It's been 2004 since we held the honor of being Champions 2018 and 14 seasons later there not a clear sign that it won't be another 14 seasons so the negativity is warranted though many don't like it.

I won't go on long negative rants about the team, but I'm convinced on nothing at the moment seeing is certainly believing so until such this team still stinks.   While I see possible potential here it is still not a reality thus everyone stinks and no one is living up to those pay checks period.  I'm not sold on Casey at least not yet,  I for certain don't like the ownership and doubt if that ever changes.

In a couple of season AD and RJ likely won't be here and there's really no time to be projecting positive unknowns 2 or 3 seasons down the road.  The team need to be in a Win Now Mode another reason why I don't think my expectation of 55 wins ECF or bust is unreasonable.

Sorry if I almost made you commit suicide Murph. Perhaps you should read the "Timekeeper". Life is precious so I will try not to tamper with your delicate life force. Oracle I have negatively affected you as well so I apologize you you as well for any hurtful comments I have made relating to your favorite Piston players.

I was responding to Sparma's question to me about Alkins and Trier. I liked the chances of one of those players and am puzzled as to why Trier was not drafted in the 2nd round.

My comments on the Pistons two draft picks were based on the comments that I read from the draft experts who commented on those two Piston picks. I have not watched them play and didn't indicate that I had done so. Maybe you have a crystal ball that is clearer than mine Murph regarding Brown. They say his motor is great and he plays tough defense. That is great but can he make the rotation knowing that he struggled as an offensive player in college. Has he been in big games and played well as a college player? Was he a go to type player in crunch time in college. Trier was that guy playing in many big games and being the key shooter the opposition tried to stop. He wasn't even drafted. My guess is that this pick was based on subjective thinking rather than objective thought but hope that he does well and beats out Jackson and Smith because he can play the D. apparently.

I think both Murph and Oracle hate it when I bring up the Pistons players only meeting two seasons ago. To me no team wins when the highest paid players lack good character. If your point guard plays mind games with the young players who occupy the 2 guard and small forward positions by shutting them out of the offense on a regular basis (Reggie Jackson) and put your arms around the big center who has the ear of the owner more than the head coach, then your team will flounder in dysfunction and that is what the pIstons did after AD's comments after that meeting and subsequent responses from SVG who got his marching orders from Tom Gores that no more meetings would be allowed. The purpose of the team meeting was to improve the team's chances of winning. Two players, Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond had other goals which were to improve their own stats and have their individual fun as they saw it. Those two were the team leaders which was incredible knowing that they have never been team orientated type players. The result of AD's immature comments caused Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Stanley Johnson and others to lose interest and say screw all of you bastards. They did not want to play basketball with either AD or RJ from that point on. I think tempers simmered over the summer but eventually Tom Gores made sure that Morris and Harris were removed from the team. ESPN recently said that the Clippers have an emerging star player in Tobias Harris. We all saw how effective Marcus Morris was in the playoffs this spring.

lI want Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson off this Piston team but it will not happen so yes I am very upset knowing that those slugs will be back to collect their stats again and some fans will write all about those amazing stats and be happy even though the team itself will suck. Jackson cannot be traded so he will play on. AD is almost a son to Tom Gores so he will play on and this coming season will show off a new jump shot to collect more amazing stats while he rests on defense or should I say have mind lapses often on defense. It will be very difficult for the young players to establish a good career as long as those two players still have influence on how things will work. Most likely the first words that will come out of AD's mouth when he is criticized by our new coach will be kiss my ass. I play for my own future. I play my own game just like my buddy Reggie. Do I blame either player at all? How can I blame them? They don't know any better because this is the way they have always been. Zeke came to the Pistons to win games and a championship. He had different goals and everyone knew it.

Nobody ever called out Zeke for lack of "engagement" on the hardwood. If Zeke didn't box out his man and that man got a game deciding rebound he would never forget it and would apologize to his teammates and the public. I continue down this negative path and perhaps bother some of you posters for doing it especially Murph and Oracle. The Pistons are a crappy team. That is a fact. If we have short memories and ignore the truth and instead grasp onto phony stats about certain players which are created by that player's agent to fool fans who are very gullible type people, then the dysfunction will continue on for many more years. This owner needs to wise up and cut off his ties or personal relationships with the players so he can be objective and treat all of the players the same way. Maybe in the long run he will do the right thing for the future of the Piston franchise but maybe not because the Pistons made money last year even with poor home attendance. This year the roster players need to have independence from the owner and select their team leader and then follow his leadership. I hope that man is Blake Griffin who will need to transform his game to fit the role of a leader like Labron James has done. Blake will need to do a lot more than just shoot and score. He is not in any way as good as Labron as a player but he hates to lose games and does not play for his own stats. If he catches players trying to play for themselves instead of the team everyone needs to come down hard on them. If that bothers either Murph or Oracle than so be it but please don't commit suicide over any comments that I might make. This is only my opinion of things related to the Pistons. I don't care if the Pistons lose if they will play as a team the right way. That hasn't happened in many years. Every NBA team wins or loses based on the players who wear the uniform. That the level of the NBA coaches have very little influence. I am damn tired of fans who blame coaches when things go bad. Every coach who has coached AD and RJ has been fired so far so stop believing the nonsense about the impact of coaches especially when you have an owner who has special relationships with players.

Every good team that I have ever watched, coached, or played on at any level has a special bond with each other. Coaches are outside that bond. If a team gets their asses kicked and hold a players only meeting to sort things out, that is a good thing not a bad thing as Andre Drummond and SVG tried to spin it. When AD did that I knew who he was because I have been on many teams who held those private meetings and it usually worked out well and we got better. If things got down and dirty, emotional and painful so much the better. That type of thing needed to happen and at times new leadership is formed within the team. Never have I witnessed any one player rat the team out after a heated meeting. That breaks the team bond. In the situation relating to the Pistons meeting, things got a lot worse because AD went to the press and Reggie Jackson then went on to act like a small child refusing to shoot the ball at all. Maybe some of you have never played on an organized team that played for something before a lot of fans who want you to win. Who knows but I know what RJ and AD did after the team meeting was dead wrong. So what does that translate to any former basketball player. It means there are some really bad apples who have been handed too much power by a gullible owner. It is wrong to support players who are the bad apples.

By the way i fully expect to watch the Pistons less rather than more next season as I can get the Suns games for free. It will be fun to watch those young kids play and most likely get beat. But they are the good guys. I support the good guys not the bad guys just because they wear a uniform I used to admire. Murph and Oracle put your blinders on and have fun but hope that Blake Griffin can put AD and RJ in their place and force them for the first time in their lives to play unselfishly for the team.

[WTF]

Don...every time I read one of your posts, I want to commit suicide.  Geesh. Pass the weapon of the day, I'm with you   You obviously get no joy whatsoever by following the Pistons; they obviously make you angry and depressed.  So why don't you follow another team.  Or at least stop crapping all over this forum. He can't help himself, if you look at his posts, one day he's positive, the next he's negative... could there be a medication issue here???


On Brown, I'm going to throw out his sophomore year completely, and pretend it never happened.  I'm guessing he was hurt through most of last season, and tried to play through the injury, and finally gave up and had surgery.  I'm hoping he's fully recovered from that injury, by the time summer league begins, and then I'm going to judge him on his performance in summer league.

If healthy, I'm guessing he'll be active, athletic, defensive minded, an excellent rebounder, and have great hops and a great motor.  

Will he ever be able to shoot adequately in the NBA?  Who knows?  He shot 35% from the 3 point line and 74% from the free throw line his freshman year in college, which isn't terrible.  He's going to have to work on is shooting, passing and handles, but I'd like to see him develop into the Pistons 3rd string PG, behind a veteran starter and RJ coming off the bench.

Murph, let's be clear, neither of these guys is from Arizona or any other team that Don follows, so by default they're suspect. They're either dumb, no motor, can't play defense, or consistently get out of the bed on the wrong side every day. in short, they can't win 

My advice: Enjoy don on his good days and throw out the bad ones... at least that's what I'm trying to do.

However, DX has some sage advice as well:

Don, cool your jets and let's not make this about your inside knowledge and lengthy observations about all things basketball. I willingly take a backseat to you in those areas but, I can't imagine you defending Reggie against the possibilities of freeing Detroit of this albatross, if for no other reason, HE DOESN'T PLAY DEFENSE!!! Defense! Your pet peeve is players that don't play defense (real or imagined) up to your lofty standards. You call for Drummonds expulsion from the team for lack of defensive excellence (with no options to replace him) but, you defend Reggie? You my brother but, you worry me sometime.

We long suffering Pistons fans seem to be experiencing a positive turnaround so let's enjoy the here and now.

Please allow Don to vent the level of frustration is understandable it's been a long time since the organization has been relevant and not really saying it is now.   It's been 2004 since we held the honor of being Champions 2018 and 14 seasons later there not a clear sign that it won't be another 14 seasons so the negativity is warranted though many don't like it.

I won't go on long negative rants about the team, but I'm convinced on nothing at the moment seeing is certainly believing so until such this team still stinks.   While I see possible potential here it is still not a reality thus everyone stinks and no one is living up to those pay checks period.  I'm not sold on Casey at least not yet,  I for certain don't like the ownership and doubt if that ever changes.

In a couple of season AD and RJ likely won't be here and there's really no time to be projecting positive unknowns 2 or 3 seasons down the road.  The team need to be in a Win Now Mode another reason why I don't think my expectation of 55 wins ECF or bust is unreasonable.

[Oracle]

Considering the Pistons’ offensive struggles last season, Kennard should have played more. But he struggled to keep Van Gundy’s confidence.

Casey said you have to live with mistakes from young players.

“The key word is trust,” Casey said. “You have to empower them, you have to trust them. You’re going to make mistakes. Fans may say, ‘Why is he playing?’ "

Van Gundy planned to try Kennard at point guard during summer league play — a plan Casey told the Free Press last week he endorses.

“That’s what this game is about,” Casey said. "There’s no magic wand you wave over young players. You give them experience, empowering them and give them confidence.”

SVG always talked about how players should trust each other and trust in the system, and that's 100% on the mark.

Unfortunately, SVG didn't ever seem to get the fact that trust is a 2 way street, he has to trust in the players as well. He never trusted Ellenson or Kennard, at the first mistake, they got yanked!

Casey has it right, young players are going to make mistakes, but you have to live with that because it's part of the growth process. SVG stunted youngsters growth by oppressively punishing them for the slightest of infractions.

So maybe you can't let them hurt you deep in the 4th of a critical game until the mistakes get fewer, but that doesn't mean you banish them for weeks.

I suggest reading the whole article because it goes over Stanley, Ellenson & Kennard in a bit more detail.

BTW: For all of you who were hoping Kennard would get some PG duties, watch summer league! IMO, being a PG requires smarts, and Kennard has certainly showed us he has those. My only question is his handles, so we'll see.

[Oracle]

Don...every time I read one of your posts, I want to commit suicide.  Geesh. Pass the weapon of the day, I'm with you   You obviously get no joy whatsoever by following the Pistons; they obviously make you angry and depressed.  So why don't you follow another team.  Or at least stop crapping all over this forum. He can't help himself, if you look at his posts, one day he's positive, the next he's negative... could there be a medication issue here???


On Brown, I'm going to throw out his sophomore year completely, and pretend it never happened.  I'm guessing he was hurt through most of last season, and tried to play through the injury, and finally gave up and had surgery.  I'm hoping he's fully recovered from that injury, by the time summer league begins, and then I'm going to judge him on his performance in summer league.

If healthy, I'm guessing he'll be active, athletic, defensive minded, an excellent rebounder, and have great hops and a great motor.  

Will he ever be able to shoot adequately in the NBA?  Who knows?  He shot 35% from the 3 point line and 74% from the free throw line his freshman year in college, which isn't terrible.  He's going to have to work on is shooting, passing and handles, but I'd like to see him develop into the Pistons 3rd string PG, behind a veteran starter and RJ coming off the bench.

Murph, let's be clear, neither of these guys is from Arizona or any other team that Don follows, so by default they're suspect. They're either dumb, no motor, can't play defense, or consistently get out of the bed on the wrong side every day. in short, they can't win 

My advice: Enjoy don on his good days and throw out the bad ones... at least that's what I'm trying to do.

However, DX has some sage advice as well:

Don, cool your jets and let's not make this about your inside knowledge and lengthy observations about all things basketball. I willingly take a backseat to you in those areas but, I can't imagine you defending Reggie against the possibilities of freeing Detroit of this albatross, if for no other reason, HE DOESN'T PLAY DEFENSE!!! Defense! Your pet peeve is players that don't play defense (real or imagined) up to your lofty standards. You call for Drummonds expulsion from the team for lack of defensive excellence (with no options to replace him) but, you defend Reggie? You my brother but, you worry me sometime.

We long suffering Pistons fans seem to be experiencing a positive turnaround so let's enjoy the here and now.

[Sparma]

Thanks Don. Looks like Trier's signing with the Knicks.

Interesting stuff, Don.

I saw mention that two Arizona guards went undrafted.  Any thoughts on them (and a possible fit with the Pistons)?

Interesting idea about trading for Fultz, Deus.  Trouble is, Philly won't be giving him away, what with James Harden comparisons still floating around.  I suspect it'd take someone like Kennard to get the deal done.  Would you be willing to do that?

Take heart BallinD, things aren't as bad as they appear to be; we've become accustomed to viewing the Pistons through distorted lenses over the last decade or so (Joe D. after Mr. Davidson passed away and the Strange Days of SVG brought to you by Tom Gores) which is a long time to scratch your head over confusing decision making. Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz. Only a negatron will seriously doubt that Fultz is unmovable and if he is, Detroit won't be a landing spot for him. Fact is, we can do so much better for the money that's being shoveled out to RJ.

Detroit's last three first round draft picks can play and are very talented, it'll only take trusting coaching to expose the world to what we have; Stanley Johnson, extremely strong defender. Henry Ellenson, extremely versatile offensively. Luke Kennard, extremely high BB I.Q. and deadly shooter. The development of these guys this year will be a joy to watch and the team will win!

I always thought Reggie Bullock was a SF, but was forced to play behind Morris and Harris; now's the time to start him at SF and bring Stanley off the bench...I'm all for starting Luke at SG alongside Bullock also and unleashing Johnson/Thomas/Brown as our crazed perimeter defenders. Who's to say what Casey may or may not do.

Bring back Arnie Kander!

Please Piston fans we do not want Fultz. I watched him play many games in the PAC12 and still wonder to this day how in hell is was the number one pick. He was a ball hog on a losing team playing point guard. His defense was horrible. Arizona's game plan was to attack Fultz. Fultz was playing for stats much like our duo AD and RJ. He was smart in that sense because his scoring average was high. But i wonder why Philly didn't bother to ask any of Fultz's teammates what they thought of him as a teammate. This guy was always looking for his shot and often drove into the lane against two or more players on a hope and prayer. Maybe the hype about Fultz was created by his agent knowing that few GMs on the East coast would stay up late at night to watch him play. I used to watch Danny Ainge shake his head during games against Washington. He had Fultz's number. I would say Fultz does not have a high basketball IQ and cannot run an effective offense because of that flaw. He is very quick. I will be very surprised if Fultz can hack it as an NBA starter. Philly made a huge mistake. TJ McConnell the un drafted point guard beat him out for the back up role last season. Sure he suffered an injury and maybe the NBA is not real basketball and designed for showtime, but I sure hope the Pistons do not have any interest in his services. I am sure Philly would love to move him though.

R. Alkins fractured his ankle or foot and was on the sidelines for several months last season. I thought he was carrying too much weight when he returned and expected a lot more from him then he gave. His ball handling and decision making skills were questionable. He forced shot attempts to boost his scoring average launching contested jump shots in big moments that cost Arizona at times. In the long run he might turn everything around because he can defend but I would not have drafted him in the 2nd round.

A. Trier in my opinion has great potential to be a stand out long range shooting and driver in the NBA. He needs to work more on his defense but can play both point guard and 2 guard. In my opinion, Trier was the best player on Arizona for most of the season overall with his leadership and skill set. Arizona won the conference championship and it wasn't even close. The team also won the conference championship. The year before Trier had been suspended by the NCAA for drug violations but he got screwed big time for that charge because he would be the last player in college basketball who would willingly break even the slightest rule. His mind was on basketball 100% along with his commitment to being a good person. He is pretty religious guy. His step father gave him some medication in the off season for a virus he came down with. Alonzo thought he was taking normal medication and his step father did as well. But the NCAA was slow as usual with their investigation and he was not able to play until the match up with UCLA with Alonzo Ball in January. During that blow out game for Arizona, Trier was exceptional. He went on to win the most valuable player award in the conference championship. Late last season he failed another drug test because there was still a trace of the so called banned substance was in his system. I think Trier lost it after he was not allowed to play for the next 3 or 4 games. In the end he was vindicated like the previous bogus charge. So he was not at his best when Arizona lost in the tournament. I cannot believe this guy was not drafted. He stood out on the court as a playmaker last season and was usually the player who spotted DeAndre Ayton inside for easy baskets because of his excellent court vision. Opposing teams centered their defense around stopping Trier from shooting the long ball and also placing two big men on Ayton. That tells me a lot. Who do opposing coaches fear the most? Unfortunately pro scouts often overlook asking college coaches that question. But guess what? Danny Ainge does ask that question. He works harder as a GM than anyone else in the league. And is smarter than most because of his work ethic as a front office guy. Trier was signed to a two way contract but I am not sure which team.

The Pistons went with a very questionable project guy with their 2nd pick on Thursday. I like his energy but the more I research his skill set the more I am puzzled as to why the Pistons drafted him. At least he can play defense but has a long way to go in developing an offensive skill set that fits the NBA. Trier has that skill set now. He just needs work on his defense.

[Murph]

Don...every time I read one of your posts, I want to commit suicide. Geesh. You obviously get no joy whatsoever by following the Pistons; they obviously make you angry and depressed. So why don't you follow another team. Or at least stop crapping all over this forum.


On Brown, I'm going to throw out his sophomore year completely, and pretend it never happened. I'm guessing he was hurt through most of last season, and tried to play through the injury, and finally gave up and had surgery. I'm hoping he's fully recovered from that injury, by the time summer league begins, and then I'm going to judge him on his performance in summer league.

If healthy, I'm guessing he'll be active, athletic, defensive minded, an excellent rebounder, and have great hops and a great motor.

Will he ever be able to shoot adequately in the NBA? Who knows? He shot 35% from the 3 point line and 74% from the free throw line his freshman year in college, which isn't terrible. He's going to have to work on is shooting, passing and handles, but I'd like to see him develop into the Pistons 3rd string PG, behind a veteran starter and RJ coming off the bench.

[cool breeze]

First off while Tom Gores was sleeping or watching Clipper games in LA, Indiana quietly built a surprise team that came close to knocking of Cleveland in the first round of the playoffs. Team chemistry was outstanding and the coaching staff got the most out of what they had.

There was not much hype leading up to the draft about Arron Holiday. I kept wondering why not. To me when thinking about smart point guards who actually know what they are doing regarding leading a team, Arron was outstanding this past year playing for UCLA. Maybe I am wrong but I really like the way he plays the game. Indiana thought so as well. He is not the type of player who looks for his stats. He wants to win games. How refreshing to see that in players. Indiana drafted pretty far down at #23 or so I believe but I am happy that they believe in this kid.

i dread the thought of this new coach bring out the same crew to start next season in Piston land. They were not fun to watch after Blake Griffin arrived. To me, he has to change how he plays the game for the team to be successful. I agree that Reggie Jackson need to play off the ball or not play at all and Blake should direct the offense from above the free throw line to start the half court offense. I don't see Reggie agreeing to that strategy without a fight. But my memory of this Piston team is that they are boring to watch which is the worst nightmare of all for fans. There are no super outstanding athletes who are faster and play harder than players on opposing teams. They have the studs and we have dysfunctional stat driven nightmare type players who command most of the payroll. Please Tolliver will you return for another season? Anthony has some character and helps the young guys. Who will do that next year?

I see where Henry Ellenson will be coming back for yet another cameo appearance in the summer league games. That must be embarrassing a bit for him but shows high character on his part for requesting the new coach to include him in this event. I still like Henry and believe if given a chance can become a valuable player if he plays with the right players.

[cool breeze]

Interesting stuff, Don.

I saw mention that two Arizona guards went undrafted.  Any thoughts on them (and a possible fit with the Pistons)?

Interesting idea about trading for Fultz, Deus.  Trouble is, Philly won't be giving him away, what with James Harden comparisons still floating around.  I suspect it'd take someone like Kennard to get the deal done.  Would you be willing to do that?

Take heart BallinD, things aren't as bad as they appear to be; we've become accustomed to viewing the Pistons through distorted lenses over the last decade or so (Joe D. after Mr. Davidson passed away and the Strange Days of SVG brought to you by Tom Gores) which is a long time to scratch your head over confusing decision making. Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz. Only a negatron will seriously doubt that Fultz is unmovable and if he is, Detroit won't be a landing spot for him. Fact is, we can do so much better for the money that's being shoveled out to RJ.

Detroit's last three first round draft picks can play and are very talented, it'll only take trusting coaching to expose the world to what we have; Stanley Johnson, extremely strong defender. Henry Ellenson, extremely versatile offensively. Luke Kennard, extremely high BB I.Q. and deadly shooter. The development of these guys this year will be a joy to watch and the team will win!

I always thought Reggie Bullock was a SF, but was forced to play behind Morris and Harris; now's the time to start him at SF and bring Stanley off the bench...I'm all for starting Luke at SG alongside Bullock also and unleashing Johnson/Thomas/Brown as our crazed perimeter defenders. Who's to say what Casey may or may not do.

Bring back Arnie Kander!

Please Piston fans we do not want Fultz. I watched him play many games in the PAC12 and still wonder to this day how in hell is was the number one pick. He was a ball hog on a losing team playing point guard. His defense was horrible. Arizona's game plan was to attack Fultz. Fultz was playing for stats much like our duo AD and RJ. He was smart in that sense because his scoring average was high. But i wonder why Philly didn't bother to ask any of Fultz's teammates what they thought of him as a teammate. This guy was always looking for his shot and often drove into the lane against two or more players on a hope and prayer. Maybe the hype about Fultz was created by his agent knowing that few GMs on the East coast would stay up late at night to watch him play. I used to watch Danny Ainge shake his head during games against Washington. He had Fultz's number. I would say Fultz does not have a high basketball IQ and cannot run an effective offense because of that flaw. He is very quick. I will be very surprised if Fultz can hack it as an NBA starter. Philly made a huge mistake. TJ McConnell the un drafted point guard beat him out for the back up role last season. Sure he suffered an injury and maybe the NBA is not real basketball and designed for showtime, but I sure hope the Pistons do not have any interest in his services. I am sure Philly would love to move him though.

R. Alkins fractured his ankle or foot and was on the sidelines for several months last season. I thought he was carrying too much weight when he returned and expected a lot more from him then he gave. His ball handling and decision making skills were questionable. He forced shot attempts to boost his scoring average launching contested jump shots in big moments that cost Arizona at times. In the long run he might turn everything around because he can defend but I would not have drafted him in the 2nd round.

A. Trier in my opinion has great potential to be a stand out long range shooting and driver in the NBA. He needs to work more on his defense but can play both point guard and 2 guard. In my opinion, Trier was the best player on Arizona for most of the season overall with his leadership and skill set. Arizona won the conference championship and it wasn't even close. The team also won the conference championship. The year before Trier had been suspended by the NCAA for drug violations but he got screwed big time for that charge because he would be the last player in college basketball who would willingly break even the slightest rule. His mind was on basketball 100% along with his commitment to being a good person. He is pretty religious guy. His step father gave him some medication in the off season for a virus he came down with. Alonzo thought he was taking normal medication and his step father did as well. But the NCAA was slow as usual with their investigation and he was not able to play until the match up with UCLA with Alonzo Ball in January. During that blow out game for Arizona, Trier was exceptional. He went on to win the most valuable player award in the conference championship. Late last season he failed another drug test because there was still a trace of the so called banned substance was in his system. I think Trier lost it after he was not allowed to play for the next 3 or 4 games. In the end he was vindicated like the previous bogus charge. So he was not at his best when Arizona lost in the tournament. I cannot believe this guy was not drafted. He stood out on the court as a playmaker last season and was usually the player who spotted DeAndre Ayton inside for easy baskets because of his excellent court vision. Opposing teams centered their defense around stopping Trier from shooting the long ball and also placing two big men on Ayton. That tells me a lot. Who do opposing coaches fear the most? Unfortunately pro scouts often overlook asking college coaches that question. But guess what? Danny Ainge does ask that question. He works harder as a GM than anyone else in the league. And is smarter than most because of his work ethic as a front office guy. Trier was signed to a two way contract but I am not sure which team.

The Pistons went with a very questionable project guy with their 2nd pick on Thursday. I like his energy but the more I research his skill set the more I am puzzled as to why the Pistons drafted him. At least he can play defense but has a long way to go in developing an offensive skill set that fits the NBA. Trier has that skill set now. He just needs work on his defense.

[cool breeze]

"Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz."
An excerpt from my argument about how easy it will be for the Pistons F.O. to replace Reggie Jackson, if they chose to do so, not campaigning for anyone in particular. If I was to favor anyone it would be to bring Spencer Dinwiddie back to Detroit!

Don, cool your jets and let's not make this about your inside knowledge and lengthy observations about all things basketball. I willingly take a backseat to you in those areas but, I can't imagine you defending Reggie against the possibilities of freeing Detroit of this albatross, if for no other reason, HE DOESN'T PLAY DEFENSE!!! Defense! Your pet peeve is players that don't play defense (real or imagined) up to your lofty standards. You call for Drummonds expulsion from the team for lack of defensive excellence (with no options to replace him) but, you defend Reggie? You my brother but, you worry me sometime.

We long suffering Pistons fans seem to be experiencing a positive turnaround so let's enjoy the here and now.

You must have me mixed up with another poster. Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond were the focus of dysfunction by their own teammates which led to the players only meeting two seasons ago. This current owner himself shut it all down to protect his pets AD and RJ. I still cannot and will never get over what happened with SVG who broke every rule of a head coach when he told the press that there will never be an additional players only meetings after AD broke all protocol when he betrayed his teammates by going to the press about how cruel the players were in that meeting. Talk about dysfunction by two of the highest paid athletes on the Pistons at the time. They were the hand picked team leaders by Tom Gores. SVG was a politically appropriate message boy for the owner who betrayed the rest of the roster players with his comments which must have been ordered by the owner himself or the other two busy body owners who Mr. Gores listens to more than his coach. SVG and Bower were just figure heads. The press has made it look like SVG was a tough hard nosed coach who bitched out AD and RJ a lot. It went just the opposite. SVG was on his tip toes. When AD threw a tantrum ordering SVG to keep his recently hired at the time shooting coach that he refused to work with him, SVG complied without a whimper. The only players SVG was hard on were the players on their rookie contracts or the bench guys who seldom played.

Make it crystal clear that I have never liked Reggie Jackson as a basketball player. He is not a leader, gives the weakest effort on defense of anyone on the team, freezes out shooting guards and small forwards and only has eyes for AD because he knows the owner has that special relationship that has poisoned the chemistry since Mr. Gores gave AD the green light to call him at any time night or day. Who did Tom Gores say he would be calling first before deciding on firing or keeping SVG? You guess it yes it was AD. I want both AD and RJ off the team as soon as possible but to do that Tom Gores will need to agree to sell the Pistons. This owner has created a soap opera all over a center who's style is not a fit for the current modern NBA.

I will make this point again because it is extremely important. Over the past two years the Pistons have lacked good leadership within the core of the highest paid athletes. AD and RJ were the selected leaders who have both been labeled as slackers their coaches and opposing players in the league. Opponents attack both AD and RJ when they are playing defense. They are on again and off again players relating to giving maximum effort. Who respects them as players on this current roster knowing that? Which shooting guards and small forwards trust RJ to pass the ball to them when they are open or make a good cut in the paint? If you play with players like those two for an entire season or more, you just want out knowing RJ especially will play favorites as to who kisses his ass the most or who as the ear of the owner. It has gone too far. But there is no way any team would agree to take on Reggie Jackson's contract. Not going to happen so who is this new head coach? Will he do the right thing or play politics like SVG and trot out Reggie Jackson as the piston's starting point guard for the next two seasons regardless of how he plays?? I will accept any point guard you recommend but politics is still in play and Reggie Jackson makes a lot of money to be sitting on the bench. The owner likes Reggie Jackson because AD likes Reggie Jackson. SO that most likely will be the way it will be - status quo. The only thing that could save the day would be if Blake Griffin actually becomes a leader like Labron and lays down the law to the players and calls them out when he sees them playing for stats and that new contract.

[Sparma]

I'm just a fair weather Wings fan, but it sounds like they're having the kind of transformative draft that I'd dream of for the Pistons. Four picks in the top 36, with two coups in the first round. Someday?

[Phil-Good]

Hey Man. Good Draft. Good press conference for Casey.

I like the talk of developing the young guys.

I know nobody can say it in public but EVERYBODY KNOWS REGGIE JACKSON WILL BE ON THE FIRST THING SMOKING ASAP!!!

I wouldn't have A problem with keeping Jackson as A 7th or 8th man off the bench but never as A starting PG.. Never!

I'm A very happy Piston fan today!!

[deusXango]

"Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz."
An excerpt from my argument about how easy it will be for the Pistons F.O. to replace Reggie Jackson, if they chose to do so, not campaigning for anyone in particular. If I was to favor anyone it would be to bring Spencer Dinwiddie back to Detroit!

Don, cool your jets and let's not make this about your inside knowledge and lengthy observations about all things basketball. I willingly take a backseat to you in those areas but, I can't imagine you defending Reggie against the possibilities of freeing Detroit of this albatross, if for no other reason, HE DOESN'T PLAY DEFENSE!!! Defense! Your pet peeve is players that don't play defense (real or imagined) up to your lofty standards. You call for Drummonds expulsion from the team for lack of defensive excellence (with no options to replace him) but, you defend Reggie? You my brother but, you worry me sometime.

We long suffering Pistons fans seem to be experiencing a positive turnaround so let's enjoy the here and now.

[Sparma]

Interesting stuff, Don.

I saw mention that two Arizona guards went undrafted. Any thoughts on them (and a possible fit with the Pistons)?

Interesting idea about trading for Fultz, Deus.  Trouble is, Philly won't be giving him away, what with James Harden comparisons still floating around.  I suspect it'd take someone like Kennard to get the deal done.  Would you be willing to do that?

Take heart BallinD, things aren't as bad as they appear to be; we've become accustomed to viewing the Pistons through distorted lenses over the last decade or so (Joe D. after Mr. Davidson passed away and the Strange Days of SVG brought to you by Tom Gores) which is a long time to scratch your head over confusing decision making. Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz. Only a negatron will seriously doubt that Fultz is unmovable and if he is, Detroit won't be a landing spot for him. Fact is, we can do so much better for the money that's being shoveled out to RJ.

Detroit's last three first round draft picks can play and are very talented, it'll only take trusting coaching to expose the world to what we have; Stanley Johnson, extremely strong defender. Henry Ellenson, extremely versatile offensively. Luke Kennard, extremely high BB I.Q. and deadly shooter. The development of these guys this year will be a joy to watch and the team will win!

I always thought Reggie Bullock was a SF, but was forced to play behind Morris and Harris; now's the time to start him at SF and bring Stanley off the bench...I'm all for starting Luke at SG alongside Bullock also and unleashing Johnson/Thomas/Brown as our crazed perimeter defenders. Who's to say what Casey may or may not do.

Bring back Arnie Kander!

Please Piston fans we do not want Fultz. I watched him play many games in the PAC12 and still wonder to this day how in hell is was the number one pick. He was a ball hog on a losing team playing point guard. His defense was horrible. Arizona's game plan was to attack Fultz. Fultz was playing for stats much like our duo AD and RJ. He was smart in that sense because his scoring average was high. But i wonder why Philly didn't bother to ask any of Fultz's teammates what they thought of him as a teammate. This guy was always looking for his shot and often drove into the lane against two or more players on a hope and prayer. Maybe the hype about Fultz was created by his agent knowing that few GMs on the East coast would stay up late at night to watch him play. I used to watch Danny Ainge shake his head during games against Washington. He had Fultz's number. I would say Fultz does not have a high basketball IQ and cannot run an effective offense because of that flaw. He is very quick. I will be very surprised if Fultz can hack it as an NBA starter. Philly made a huge mistake. TJ McConnell the un drafted point guard beat him out for the back up role last season. Sure he suffered an injury and maybe the NBA is not real basketball and designed for showtime, but I sure hope the Pistons do not have any interest in his services. I am sure Philly would love to move him though.

[cool breeze]

Interesting idea about trading for Fultz, Deus.  Trouble is, Philly won't be giving him away, what with James Harden comparisons still floating around.  I suspect it'd take someone like Kennard to get the deal done.  Would you be willing to do that?

Take heart BallinD, things aren't as bad as they appear to be; we've become accustomed to viewing the Pistons through distorted lenses over the last decade or so (Joe D. after Mr. Davidson passed away and the Strange Days of SVG brought to you by Tom Gores) which is a long time to scratch your head over confusing decision making. Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz. Only a negatron will seriously doubt that Fultz is unmovable and if he is, Detroit won't be a landing spot for him. Fact is, we can do so much better for the money that's being shoveled out to RJ.

Detroit's last three first round draft picks can play and are very talented, it'll only take trusting coaching to expose the world to what we have; Stanley Johnson, extremely strong defender. Henry Ellenson, extremely versatile offensively. Luke Kennard, extremely high BB I.Q. and deadly shooter. The development of these guys this year will be a joy to watch and the team will win!

I always thought Reggie Bullock was a SF, but was forced to play behind Morris and Harris; now's the time to start him at SF and bring Stanley off the bench...I'm all for starting Luke at SG alongside Bullock also and unleashing Johnson/Thomas/Brown as our crazed perimeter defenders. Who's to say what Casey may or may not do.

Bring back Arnie Kander!

Please Piston fans we do not want Fultz. I watched him play many games in the PAC12 and still wonder to this day how in hell is was the number one pick. He was a ball hog on a losing team playing point guard. His defense was horrible. Arizona's game plan was to attack Fultz. Fultz was playing for stats much like our duo AD and RJ. He was smart in that sense because his scoring average was high. But i wonder why Philly didn't bother to ask any of Fultz's teammates what they thought of him as a teammate. This guy was always looking for his shot and often drove into the lane against two or more players on a hope and prayer. Maybe the hype about Fultz was created by his agent knowing that few GMs on the East coast would stay up late at night to watch him play. I used to watch Danny Ainge shake his head during games against Washington. He had Fultz's number. I would say Fultz does not have a high basketball IQ and cannot run an effective offense because of that flaw. He is very quick. I will be very surprised if Fultz can hack it as an NBA starter. Philly made a huge mistake. TJ McConnell the un drafted point guard beat him out for the back up role last season. Sure he suffered an injury and maybe the NBA is not real basketball and designed for showtime, but I sure hope the Pistons do not have any interest in his services. I am sure Philly would love to move him though.

[Sparma]

Interesting idea about trading for Fultz, Deus. Trouble is, Philly won't be giving him away, what with James Harden comparisons still floating around. I suspect it'd take someone like Kennard to get the deal done. Would you be willing to do that?

Take heart BallinD, things aren't as bad as they appear to be; we've become accustomed to viewing the Pistons through distorted lenses over the last decade or so (Joe D. after Mr. Davidson passed away and the Strange Days of SVG brought to you by Tom Gores) which is a long time to scratch your head over confusing decision making. Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz. Only a negatron will seriously doubt that Fultz is unmovable and if he is, Detroit won't be a landing spot for him. Fact is, we can do so much better for the money that's being shoveled out to RJ.

Detroit's last three first round draft picks can play and are very talented, it'll only take trusting coaching to expose the world to what we have; Stanley Johnson, extremely strong defender. Henry Ellenson, extremely versatile offensively. Luke Kennard, extremely high BB I.Q. and deadly shooter. The development of these guys this year will be a joy to watch and the team will win!

I always thought Reggie Bullock was a SF, but was forced to play behind Morris and Harris; now's the time to start him at SF and bring Stanley off the bench...I'm all for starting Luke at SG alongside Bullock also and unleashing Johnson/Thomas/Brown as our crazed perimeter defenders. Who's to say what Casey may or may not do.

Bring back Arnie Kander!

[BallinD]

DX, I'm looking at this season as a kind of clean slate season. With the new structure and new folks in the FO, why not be somewhat optimistic. And I am. It looks like the current team is different in ways I like:

1. They want to win now, but also know that young talent as much as or more than vets complement the team. Some of that is due to the makeup of the roster and cap situation, but still it is refreshing!

2. I like the concept of pit bulls in the backcourt and increased defensive intensity.

3. I like the point forward Blake revision. I have long thought (even before he got here) he was as good a playmaker as bullyball scorer. Casey is saying all the right things for now, no head-scratchers yet.

4. More smart young minds empowered to speak to issues with authority. Now if they can win, and I believe they will.

Your ideas about getting rid of Weggie are interesting. Casey famously butted heads with Lowery in TO, but both said they learned from one another. Maybe he can do the same for Weggie if we can't trade him.

Take heart BallinD, things aren't as bad as they appear to be; we've become accustomed to viewing the Pistons through distorted lenses over the last decade or so (Joe D. after Mr. Davidson passed away and the Strange Days of SVG brought to you by Tom Gores) which is a long time to scratch your head over confusing decision making. Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz. Only a negatron will seriously doubt that Fultz is unmovable and if he is, Detroit won't be a landing spot for him. Fact is, we can do so much better for the money that's being shoveled out to RJ.

Detroit's last three first round draft picks can play and are very talented, it'll only take trusting coaching to expose the world to what we have; Stanley Johnson, extremely strong defender. Henry Ellenson, extremely versatile offensively. Luke Kennard, extremely high BB I.Q. and deadly shooter. The development of these guys this year will be a joy to watch and the team will win!

I always thought Reggie Bullock was a SF, but was forced to play behind Morris and Harris; now's the time to start him at SF and bring Stanley off the bench...I'm all for starting Luke at SG alongside Bullock also and unleashing Johnson/Thomas/Brown as our crazed perimeter defenders. Who's to say what Casey may or may not do.

Bring back Arnie Kander!

[deusXango]

Thanks for the encouragement Oracle. It's nice to be missed.

[deusXango]

Take heart BallinD, things aren't as bad as they appear to be; we've become accustomed to viewing the Pistons through distorted lenses over the last decade or so (Joe D. after Mr. Davidson passed away and the Strange Days of SVG brought to you by Tom Gores) which is a long time to scratch your head over confusing decision making. Long story short, something is going to be done about our PG dilemma and soon. Think Dennis Schroder, for instance, as an upgrade over Reggie. Atlanta has moved on at their PG position and Schroder won't be a problem in the "D" like he has been in the ATL. Just as an example. Another is trading for Markelle Fultz. Only a negatron will seriously doubt that Fultz is unmovable and if he is, Detroit won't be a landing spot for him. Fact is, we can do so much better for the money that's being shoveled out to RJ.

Detroit's last three first round draft picks can play and are very talented, it'll only take trusting coaching to expose the world to what we have; Stanley Johnson, extremely strong defender. Henry Ellenson, extremely versatile offensively. Luke Kennard, extremely high BB I.Q. and deadly shooter. The development of these guys this year will be a joy to watch and the team will win!

I always thought Reggie Bullock was a SF, but was forced to play behind Morris and Harris; now's the time to start him at SF and bring Stanley off the bench...I'm all for starting Luke at SG alongside Bullock also and unleashing Johnson/Thomas/Brown as our crazed perimeter defenders. Who's to say what Casey may or may not do.

Bring back Arnie Kander!

[Sparma]

Cool, I took your advice to reread Wojo's May 8 (detnews) piece, and it was worth it. Among other things he writes: "Change wasn’t easy for Van Gundy, 58, who won in Orlando and Miami with his hard-driving style. His blunt honesty is appreciated by people like me, and maybe you, and it will be missed. But as time passes, it isn’t as appreciated by players." That's obvious enough, but not so easy to state publicly (especially that last sentence) when you depend in part on the good will of people about whom you're reporting. We could have used more of such frankness earlier, but still, Wojo delivered a candid and insightful state of the union on May 8.

[Sparma]

Cool: "Are there any veteran mentors on this Piston team? I have heard especially two season's ago that every veteran player was only looking out for themselves. Then Tolliver arrived and and Avery Bradley who were directly involved with making the young guys feel comfortable."

I really hope that the team resigns Tolliver. Maybe the individual statistical drop off won't be great, because I expect a healthy Leuer to step up his play, getting close to that first half season with the team. But Tolliver provides that vet leadership that Cool speaks of. Crazy as it may sound, I think he may have been our MVP last year, even though AD and Blake are clearly better players (well, maybe some disagree about AD).

Can they spend the mid-level exception on someone already in house? (I think so.) I gather (from Ellis) that the team may not be willing even to spend that mid-level for fear of going into the luxury territory (but that, per Stefanski, the team may be willing to go over that threshold if the team has it going on later in the season). I hope that Gores sets aside luxury tax concerns for Tolliver. I'd like Tolliver to be part of the organization long term, beyond his playing career.

[cool breeze]

I read the article awhile back and was so angry then that I thought Wojo didn't cover every aspect of the nightmare that has gone on in Piston land. However, reading it again today made me think there are some smart reporters working on Piston news in the City of Detroit. Great job!

[cool breeze]

To me reading your posts is more exciting than pulling up articles from the Detroit News or Free Press especially over the last miserable two seasons of Piston basketball. Here is my worry about this draft and those in the recent past.

Are there any veteran mentors on this Piston team? I have heard especially two season's ago that every veteran player was only looking out for themselves. Then Tolliver arrived and and Avery Bradley who were directly involved with making the young guys feel comfortable. This helped Kennard and Moreland big time and also Stanley Johnson felt more of a part of the team than he did in the previous season. I blame the big contract players Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond for creating a climate of who gives a crap about you young kids on the fringe two seasons ago. Last year Tolliver helped the big men grow even Andre Drummond and Bradley really worked a lot with the guards and small forwards. Those two players were like coaches. In every situation where our Pistons have been successful, they have known that everything has to be done to get the most out of the young blood. But neither RJ or AD have ever been part of the leadership on any successful team in their lives. The fault lies with Tom Gores who hand selected RJ and AD to me the team leaders which left the rest of the roster players with no voice. Hence, I need to remind everyone of the players only meeting two seasons ago which was shut down by the owner and his mouthpiece SVG. I'll bet SVG regret not being his own man at that time when he ordered that there would be no more players only meetings. I have never heard of any coach ever doing that at any level of basketball in my entire life.

I really like the fact that we got another 2nd round pick and both players have good reputations as defenders. Great job! Now will they get a fair chance to win playing time next season? There is great pressure to send out the high contract players in the NBA. No doubt about that is what SVG did. The Pistons have hired a veteran head coach. Will he be politically correct like SVG was and please the owners whims or will he be a man? Who among the current roster players will help the new draftees? My bet is that both Kennard and Johnson will make a point to make those two players feel comfortable and fill them in on how everything works in the NBA. I have no faith in either AD or RJ doing anything but finding new ways to improve their own stats. I have felt that is all they have been about from day one. This new coaching staff will have to be strong willed and set standards that will include everyone on the roster. No exceptions for AD and RJ but if the same milk toast treatment becomes the norm, it will be time to tune out this team until this owner agrees to sell the team. Good job Piston management on this draft knowing the owner gave away our first round pick and is the butt of a lot of jokes going around the NBA to this day because of the lopsided trade he made to get his man, Blake Griffin. Speaking of Blake, the pressure of the world is now on him to help the young kids on this team get better and set the tone to get maximum effort out of AD and RJ. Those are the two slackers Blake needs to watch closely around December, January and February. Blake makes Labron James money. He needs to be a great play maker like Labron not just shoot the basketball. He will have to set the tone for the Piston defense as well. Good luck Blake. You will need it and you can do it.

[BallinD]

More like Where's The Point?  We need point guard talent in the worst way and need SF talent too.  I know, the smartest approach is to draft for talent, not fit.  And i agree wholeheartedly.  Two SGs though?  We're one Weggie Jackson injury from the lottery.  Haven't we seen this movie before?

That being said, I advocated for buying a first round pick and they did that to get Khyri Thomas, in a manner of speaking, so I love the aggression and what it says about the new regime/Stefanski.  It shows they value young talent and also that they value defensive intensity, vs the old regime talking defense and drafting offense: Kennard/Ellensen. Summer League just got more interesting.

Its early, and I hope Stefanski continues to impress.  Get a point guard in here who can play.  Plenty of time to do that.  Let's go do that.  Maybe this allows them to slide Bullock over to SF to help shore up the position with SJ.  Maybe.

[WTF]

I'm taking a wait and see attitude on the draft picks so that I don't overall over project on their talent and potential.   They seem like nice pickups but do we really need either.  I suppose we had to pick someone so hopefully this was the best talent available type picks.

[WTF]

Wise, just let me say one more thing about how many wins to expect.

IMO, if we look for a number, we're already missing the point.

Larry Brown sacrificed wins during the season, in exchange for getting better.

If we're a team to fear by the end of the season in the playoffs, number of wins won't mean nearly as much!

That's the measuring stick I prefer to use for this team.

Correct it's not really the number of wins but the actual outcome of the season because a team can win 48 games and peak at the right moment and advance to the ECF or the Finals.   But in using a number as a stand alone 55 wins IMO would be the standard beyond the eye test and seeing marked improvement even n a loss.   

I also used 55 wins because there's tendency here to use them as validation and a measurement of success.  Honestly I would or could be pleased with a 46 win season if this team wasn't already 2 years behind where they should be and the huge amount of payroll being invested in 3 players who should be delivering already.   I think it's fair to use 55 wins as a measuring stick.  

Chemistry shouldn't be an issue IMO these aren't a group of rookies making this money these are seasoned vets that should be carrying the and the youth behind them.  LB sacrificed wins not to develop chemistry but as a learning tool in getting players to play the right way

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