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Frustration sets in...

Post  Oracle on Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:45 am

My wet dream: Zeke as GM, Kidd as coach! Unfortunately that has a snowballs chance in hell of happening.

Phillip is right, these 60+ candidates suck! We need a younger coach, Kidd fits that bill. I think we need a young coach with the drive to be the next great NBA coach, hell, you don't get a Brad Stevens if you're too scared to trust your ability to pick a winner.

BTW, Ime Udoka(good suggestion Phillip) would also be a good choice, he's a young and upcoming talent that has a little star power bringing his hot wife, Nia Long to the table. You'd think Gores would love a little more star power.


IMO, this team is going to win next year, and getting a young coach will help him learn and get better much easier. However, between Beilein and Casey, I prefer Casey. I kind of selfishly want Beilein to stay at Michigan and do his thing, plus, I think Casey is the better NBA coach. However, if you're looking for upside, a 60+ coach isn't the direction you would go.

Drummond's Jumper: While I would prefer he focused on his defense, let's be honest, defense is preached a LOT by coaches, but the bottom line is that defenders are not what excite people anymore. In fact, being a good defender without good offensive numbers generally gets you labeled as a loser(Stanley Johnson?). So where's the value of working on your defense?

Well, I believe in what Zeke says. Let players work on their offense early in their career, then once they reach a certain level, make them concentrate on defense. He believed this because he saw it happen for himself and the bad boys. They went from a high powered offense, which still holds the record of highest scoring game in NBA history, to the best defense in the league.

Here's Drummond practicing his jumper, and it looks good, but as Darko will tell you, it's easy to look good in practice  lol
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Tom Gores is A TRASH OWNER

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:40 am

So it looks like it's coming down to Three guys. Casey, Michigan's coach Beilein and the young guy Ime Udoka.

If I had to choose between the three I would choose Ime Udoka. He is one of Pop's closes prodigies and he's A young man.


So he can grown into the job and get better long term.

As much as I like the other two guys, they're OLD MEN! 60 +++ in age.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:33 pm

Murph wrote:Kidd would be the best choice (after Zeke and Laimbeer).  Kidd knows the PG position inside and out, he was a good defensive player in his day, and he has a nasty edge to him, which would benefit the Pistons.

I'd be ok with Casey, but would prefer Kidd.

WTF has identified two things that prevent the Pistons from being a team anyone should even talk about. He is right the Piston players and this owner have not been and are not the type of people who are committed to winning. For the Piston fans who have been watching the playoffs, we all see emotionally driven players. We see teams with a blend of young and older more experienced players who have come together and are not content dancing in a circle before basketball games. We remember past Piston players who came out on the court before games with a nasty look on their faces and they never accepted defeat like this current group of highly paid athletes. And we see playoff teams with more than just 5 good players who know how to compete on the floor and show that they are smart players not players who opponents laugh at because they cannot get themselves properly "engaged" or willing to give an extreme effort to win games.

Jason Kidd would be a hard nosed bastard that many of the players who are not dominating the money factor with this insane current payroll would love. Kidd would come in already knowing that Reggie Jackson is a problem not an asset the way he currently plays as a ball dominate point guard without the skills of a Seth Curry while having the reputation as the worst guard defender in any current rotation in the entire NBA. Where could Kidd hide Jackson on defense? He could hand the ball to Blake Griffin to play the same type of role Labron James is currently playing for Cleveland. Blake can see the floor. He is effective at the top of the key initiating the half court offense, setting screens and getting the ball back. I think the Piston team could get a lot of off the ball action on weak side plays if the ball is not in Reggie Jackson's hands. If Jackson could make the rotation in a different role as a guy who moves without the basketball and becomes a shooter, not play maker then Kidd could figure out how to make that happen if Reggie Jackson decides he will actually give an honest effort on defense. With less touches on offense, Jackson could conserve his energy on defense. What any new coach will face is what in hell can they do with Reggie Jackson? They will know that Reggie's current contract makes it impossible to trade him. The Pistons have him for two more seasons.

Jason Kidd would make the Pistons a tougher team. But this owner is a milk toast type owner who has too many personal relationships with his players and will interfere if one of his pets gets agitated when Kidd becomes critical of their commitment to excellence. Kidd would not take any crap from the owner's group. I don't think all of the dysfunction has been caused by Tom Gores but maybe the combination of Tom and his buddies who have ownership in the team make things impossible for any coach or GM to do a good job. SVG did whatever the owner wanted and Stan was able to walk away with a pile of cash without having to coach them again. He sure must be relieved and happy.

If Tom Gores hired Zeke or a person like Jason Kidd, then I would know that he is changing his ways and might try to butt out of day to day operations of the team and maybe not take any more late night phone calls from whining players. The combination of Blake Griffin being a real leader as a player (the Pistons have not had one since Billups was traded) and a tough no nonsense type head coach and a smart younger group of assistant coaches, our Pistons at least might start acting like a more professional basketball team. That is a lot of ifs and the question remains as to if Blake Griffin will just blend in or become a real leader. Right now this team has too many hot dog type players dominating the payroll. Any new coach will have nightmares once they see the pre game dancing and clowning around by Tom's pets. The players themselves have created a culture that few older Piston fans can identify with and no free agents want to play with regardless of the amount of money they might be offered. Good players want to be on winning teams with players who have a history of being able to win games and always play fully "engaged". That is the only way basketball is fun for them. They don't care about the pre game circle dance. And good coaches do not want to coach players who have been identified as not being fully "engaged". I will never forget those kind words SVG chose to identify one of his key players at the time when the Pistons lost a game they should have won which also put them out of the playoffs. All of the players competing in the Finals are fighters. Nobody has to worry about them being emotionally ready to give their team whatever is needed to win. Some of our Piston players still have shown selective engagement relating to being mentally and physically in regular season games especially in mid December, January and February. The same players and the same results year after year is the current history. So I doubt if Jason Kidd would take the job knowing the player he would have to coach. Jason has coached against these Piston players and knows them really well. the owner will need to find another "YES" man to coach the Pistons. Yes Mr. Gores we will run the 4 out and 1 in offense. I will make sure your favorite players score a lot and maybe both will make the All Star team this time.

The playoff teams this year really show our players for what they really are. Some of us watched every Piston game so now when we see the effort being made by the players in every playoff series, we see a clear difference like night and day relating to both effort and basketball IQ. If a team does not have a fully engaged leader who is really smart then the team is doomed to failure. If the owner is not fully "engaged" with a vision then it is time for fans to jump ship. Steve Kerr sure knows how to make basketball fun while at the same time showing players how to play the right way with style. His staff has made three young spirited players effective players in the NBA Finals. The Pistons have not been able to get Henry Ellenson good enough to secure playing time on a below average team. What have the current highly paid roster players done to help the younger players get better? Would a young player coming into the league rather play with Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond or Seth Curry and Draymond Green? I see Green talking to all of the younger players getting them emotionally engaged and supporting them as they learn. The Pistons would not be a good organization to come to if you are a rookie player mostly because of the current vets. No coach can change that. The culture needs to change and to do that it will be necessary to remove the poison.

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I Had Enough

Post  WTF on Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:21 pm

It's just time to stop stressing over what this organization is going to do, either it becomes a winning franchise or it doesn't.  If its content on being losers so be it but I won't be worrying about it.  I'll cheer win it starts winning and contending the proof shall be in the pudding they'll have to show me first before I start to believe in this franchise again.  

As of today this a team that won 39 games failed to back the playoffs currently without a coach and a dumb ass owner attached to it.  This team has done nothing to keep me remaining hopeful there's a turnaround approaching any time soon.   Yes they are capable of better things but again show me first then I'll start believing.   I know the difference between can't and won't and this team truly couldn't then oh well but this team won't because it doesn't care to so why should I care.   The players aren't committed to winning, and the owner not committed.
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I hear you Wise, but...

Post  Oracle on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:37 am

Wise, I don't think Gores believes in the Pistons culture and legacy the same as us die hard Piston fans! I know he loves the team and the area, but this part of it is simply not in his DNA, so I have no belief that he will hire any of our greats!

Coming to that conclusion, I'm fully on board with Murph. While Kidd pisses me off, I do feel that he has the drive, determination, and most of all, as Murph mentioned, the NASTY streak that winners need to crush opponents, and he has that in spades.

These players NEED a coach that won't put up with any of their sh!t, and knows the game inside and out, and that has won at every level... Kidd fits that bill. An additional plus is that I think he reign in Reggie and make him behave as a PG, which will likely keep him from injury and could extend his career(much less hero ball)!

I'll take Casey, but I'd much prefer Kidd!
Murph wrote:Kidd would be the best choice (after Zeke and Laimbeer).  Kidd knows the PG position inside and out, he was a good defensive player in his day, and he has a nasty edge to him, which would benefit the Pistons.

I'd be ok with Casey, but would prefer Kidd.
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Not A Happy Camper

Post  WTF on Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:40 pm

It's like Gores tossing **** at the walls hoping something sticks when a sure bet to bring some life into this organization is clearly tapping into the teams championship past.  

I'm sure Casey is a good coach and Kidd may be even better given a new opportunity but these are not Pistons at heart they simply don't have the DNA to pass on to this team.   I would be happy with someone that was under LB or Flip staff taking reign of this team as head coach before I could fully endorse a Kidd or Casey.   Honestly I would rather give Cheeks another try before these two .

Watching TNT the other night with Grant, Zeke and Kenny all three Pistons and all I could think of was Gore picks the least Pistons of the bunch to give an interview.  I thought how weird it must have been and awkward for Kenny sitting there amongst to Pistons Greats and HOF'ers that Gore complete ignored for jobs.    Even Hill should be a part of this franchise right along with Bill, CB, Sheed, Ben, and Zeke.   

I swear I'm starting to hate this organization really something fierce these days, I swear I wanted Ilitch to get this team and not Gore.  Gore was always a Lakers fan and had none to little connection with Michigan until this team was up for sell.  He was never a Pistons Fan and he's not one now and he doesn't love this team the why Mr. D and most fans did,  Ilitch and even the Fords would love this team but damn if Gore does.

Blake spent his entire career on a Clipper team that never won ****, Drummond never won **** and in fact who on this team has.  How can they win if there are no winners to show them how to be winners.  IMO Casey is just the trending item of the day and we don't need a coach that can't beat Lebron we need one that can.  Right now we can beat anybody period with our 39 win asses.  

Is it freaking football season yet  facepalm
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Kidd

Post  Murph on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:17 am

Kidd would be the best choice (after Zeke and Laimbeer).  Kidd knows the PG position inside and out, he was a good defensive player in his day, and he has a nasty edge to him, which would benefit the Pistons.

I'd be ok with Casey, but would prefer Kidd.
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Early morning thoughts

Post  deusXango on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:48 am

Oracle wrote:I thought this was a done deal because absolutely NO other teams were actively pursuing Casey and he had that stealth interview, the kind you only hear about after its happened. BTW, I'm glad the dumped Bower, he was toxic, bringing in a lot of bad deals, but if I'm to be fair, he also had some real winners too. I too am glad Bower is gone and I wonder again, "what took so long?" Real winners?! After 4 years, in a cloud of dust, we've got Blake Griffin and his $171 million contract, the ball hogging Reggie Jackson, two of the most injured players on the Pistons roster. Look at what we lost to get here.

Normally when others aren't after someone it's a bad thing, in this case, the word was out that Casey wrapped up, for all intents by the Pistons.

IMO, this is a solid hire, unlike some here, I think the combination of Reggie, Blake & Drummond can do major damage in the east. Really need to find a way to keep Tolliver if at all possible. I think some of the things that Don posted about how to make them work, will happen by default. 

Blake is the big star in that group, and the two lesser players will take a back seat. I have realistic expectations. I'm just looking to get good enough to be in the top teams in the east conversation, once there, we can start to think about how we get better and what it'll take. Trade Reggie Jackson for Spencer Dinwiddie...we're talking New Jersey people and that's a step toward getting better.

Casey would still be coaching if LeBron didn't happen, the Raptors just do not match up against him, sh!t happens. But LeBron will be gone next season, there's no way he wants to have to work that hard to drag a bunch of scrubs across the finish line again!
Sparma wrote:I'm back to thinking that it's a done deal, or at least that the deal is nearly done.

In an article on the candidacy of John Beilein (?!), Ellis & Baumgardner write: "Former Toronto Raptors coach Dwane Casey interviewed with the Pistons on Thursday, and was “impressive,” a source told the Free Press on Friday.
Casey came into the interview with lukewarm expectations based on questions of game management.
But he blew the search team away and was very prepared with detailed notes and video clips."
Oracle, that's great food for thought, as usual. Is it just me or does Gores tend to drag his feet when it comes to his teams essential business? How can he be "mind blind" when it comes to considering ex-Pistons champion greats? How does one get the bitter taste of SVG out of their mouth when there's a daily reminder of his impact on our beloved Pistons? It was a negative impact!
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Toliver

Post  Murph on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:37 am

Don...excellent post...knowledgeable, positive, realistic and constructive.

Oracle...it wouldn’t take much to keep Toliver.   The veterans minimum for two years would do it, I think.  We should keep Toliver and Ellenson to back up Griffin.  

Then try to trade Leuer and Smith for George Hill.  Hill is a decent outside shooter and defender, and a good system player.   And if Lebron bolts, the Cavs are going to want to dump salary and get younger.

And IMO, we should try to bring back Ennis, by offering him our veterans exemption.

cool breeze wrote:First off will Tom Gores experts force Casey to show them how to run a practice and do role playing like the article mentioned they would do to judge the candidates for the head coaching job? Everyone is correct who questions why None of our old Piston heroes have been invited for an interview. Great job Tom Gores. Nobody likes you or trusts you.

Here is what the Pistons must do next season to limit the dysfunction that Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond have caused in the past.

1. Blake has to be in charge of the leadership from day one in training camp. Every player has to be all in on his leadership position. No team wins without a good leader. Griffin can become a good Piston leader in my opinion because he is smart and plays hard on both ends of the floor and in transition. BG is getting the money good leaders make in the NBA. So he must establish himself as the guy who will not tolerate "SLACKING' by any player who ever that player might be.

2. Blake Griffin needs to be the guy like Labron who handles the ball most. No more Reggie Jackson walking the ball up the court and dribbling away the shot clock looking for AD in the paint. Blake needs to bring the ball up and initiate the half court offense. One thing Reggie Jackson can do is shoot the ball well at times. If Reggie is not wasting his energy with the ball hog dribble happy game he plays and can move without the basketball and find openings in a half court offense without touching the ball so much, then Jackson can be a great weapon on offense. If he isn't using that energy dribbling so much maybe he can give an honest effort on defense. He has the long arms and is not stupid so there is no excuse for Reggie anymore relating to him being a liability on defense. He is a liability because he is a natural born slacker on the defensive end. His teammates at Oklahoma were happy to see him leave because of that defect as well has his lack of interest in passing the basketball. Blake Griffin needs to transform Reggie into a different player that we Piston fans can respect. What a tough job that will be but Blake needs to be the hard ass team Captain like Labron.

3. Blake needs to get both Andre Drummond and Henry Ellenson up to speed on playing defense the right way so as to scare the hell out of anyone who enters the paint when the Pistons are on defense. We see that Steve Kerr has been able to get 3 young kids up to speed so they can contribute in the NBA Finals so the new coach and Blake Griffin needs to also make sure our big men are willing to put in the hard work necessary to play defense the right way. AD has been a better defender in the 4th quarter not he needs to play hard on defense for an entire game. Henry Ellenson must be a complete fool because all he had to do in the past two years is exhibit extreme energy on defense to show his coach that he does have the ability to play effective defense. Ellenson is really young but that is no longer an excuse. Henry can be a great offensive player but to earn playing time his team needs to see that they can trust him when he plays defense. Blake Griffin needs to show Henry Ellenson all the tricks and how to be effective on both the defensive and offensive boards. This season the Pistons will need Henry Ellenson to become an above average big man the Pistons can count on to score and defend. In my formula of success, it will be Blake Griffin who instills confidence in his teammates and also provides an enforcer type mentality when it comes to getting the most out of every teammate.

4. Moreland, Kennard need to come into training camp with added muscle and Blake Griffin has to be the guy who creates fun for players like those two who is a high energy team orientated players. Blake will have his hands full doing more than just jacking up shots. He needs to be the MAN. Every good team needs one. There is no other player on the roster who can provide real leadership. Success rides on what Blake Griffin decides to do for this Piston team next year. He has the chance of becoming a real hero in Detroit. Will he decide to be that guy we fans need?


Last edited by Murph on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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Agree!

Post  Oracle on Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:29 pm

I thought this was a done deal because absolutely NO other teams were actively pursuing Casey and he had that stealth interview, the kind you only hear about after its happened. BTW, I'm glad the dumped Bower, he was toxic, bringing in a lot of bad deals, but if I'm to be fair, he also had some real winners too.

Normally when others aren't after someone it's a bad thing, in this case, the word was out that Casey wrapped up, for all intents by the Pistons.

IMO, this is a solid hire, unlike some here, I think the combination of Reggie, Blake & Drummond can do major damage in the east. Really need to find a way to keep Tolliver if at all possible. I think some of the things that Don posted about how to make them work, will happen by default. 

Blake is the big star in that group, and the two lesser players will take a back seat. I have realistic expectations. I'm just looking to get good enough to be in the top teams in the east conversation, once there, we can start to think about how we get better and what it'll take.

Casey would still be coaching if LeBron didn't happen, the Raptors just do not match up against him, sh!t happens. But LeBron will be gone next season, there's no way he wants to have to work that hard to drag a bunch of scrubs across the finish line again!
Sparma wrote:I'm back to thinking that it's a done deal, or at least that the deal is nearly done.

In an article on the candidacy of John Beilein (?!), Ellis & Baumgardner write: "Former Toronto Raptors coach Dwane Casey interviewed with the Pistons on Thursday, and was “impressive,” a source told the Free Press on Friday.
Casey came into the interview with lukewarm expectations based on questions of game management.
But he blew the search team away and was very prepared with detailed notes and video clips."
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Casey

Post  Sparma on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:39 pm

I'm back to thinking that it's a done deal, or at least that the deal is nearly done.

In an article on the candidacy of John Beilein (?!), Ellis & Baumgardner write: "Former Toronto Raptors coach Dwane Casey interviewed with the Pistons on Thursday, and was “impressive,” a source told the Free Press on Friday.
Casey came into the interview with lukewarm expectations based on questions of game management.
But he blew the search team away and was very prepared with detailed notes and video clips."
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You know things are bad when this happens :)

Post  Oracle on Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:49 pm

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Oracle/ Search

Post  Sparma on Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:31 pm

Of course we don't know who all applied (it did seem like Thomas was interested in the front office), but not giving the likes of Laimbeer and Thomas at least a courtesy interviews would be truly discourteous. I'm wondering if Billups applied. I'd suppose that in some cases potential candidates would be approached, even if they didn't take the initiative to apply.

Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Given my praise of Vince Ellis, I should have read his recent stuff asserting that the team's interest in Casey is "lukewarm" before posting on Casey seeming like a shoo in.  Wow, this is more interesting than I had thought.  Still can't believe in Smith or Howard, but the designer of Toronto's O sounds like an intriguing candidate.
I agree, none of these guys have a chance against Casey, and they're being interviewed mostly out of respect, showing other teams that they're at least in the game, that wasn't the point we're troubled about.

Where's the respect for Zeke or Laimbeer? If you can give these guys who have absolutely no chance an interview, what about these two former Piston greats who do have a ton of experience? Color me PISSED!

Speaking of former Pistons, here's a balst from the past and maybe the present if he comes home in the front office.
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What the Pistons need to do to get the most out of a below average roster

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:10 pm

First off will Tom Gores experts force Casey to show them how to run a practice and do role playing like the article mentioned they would do to judge the candidates for the head coaching job? Everyone is correct who questions why None of our old Piston heroes have been invited for an interview. Great job Tom Gores. Nobody likes you or trusts you.

Here is what the Pistons must do next season to limit the dysfunction that Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond have caused in the past.

1. Blake has to be in charge of the leadership from day one in training camp. Every player has to be all in on his leadership position. No team wins without a good leader. Griffin can become a good Piston leader in my opinion because he is smart and plays hard on both ends of the floor and in transition. BG is getting the money good leaders make in the NBA. So he must establish himself as the guy who will not tolerate "SLACKING' by any player who ever that player might be.

2. Blake Griffin needs to be the guy like Labron who handles the ball most. No more Reggie Jackson walking the ball up the court and dribbling away the shot clock looking for AD in the paint. Blake needs to bring the ball up and initiate the half court offense. One thing Reggie Jackson can do is shoot the ball well at times. If Reggie is not wasting his energy with the ball hog dribble happy game he plays and can move without the basketball and find openings in a half court offense without touching the ball so much, then Jackson can be a great weapon on offense. If he isn't using that energy dribbling so much maybe he can give an honest effort on defense. He has the long arms and is not stupid so there is no excuse for Reggie anymore relating to him being a liability on defense. He is a liability because he is a natural born slacker on the defensive end. His teammates at Oklahoma were happy to see him leave because of that defect as well has his lack of interest in passing the basketball. Blake Griffin needs to transform Reggie into a different player that we Piston fans can respect. What a tough job that will be but Blake needs to be the hard ass team Captain like Labron.

3. Blake needs to get both Andre Drummond and Henry Ellenson up to speed on playing defense the right way so as to scare the hell out of anyone who enters the paint when the Pistons are on defense. We see that Steve Kerr has been able to get 3 young kids up to speed so they can contribute in the NBA Finals so the new coach and Blake Griffin needs to also make sure our big men are willing to put in the hard work necessary to play defense the right way. AD has been a better defender in the 4th quarter not he needs to play hard on defense for an entire game. Henry Ellenson must be a complete fool because all he had to do in the past two years is exhibit extreme energy on defense to show his coach that he does have the ability to play effective defense. Ellenson is really young but that is no longer an excuse. Henry can be a great offensive player but to earn playing time his team needs to see that they can trust him when he plays defense. Blake Griffin needs to show Henry Ellenson all the tricks and how to be effective on both the defensive and offensive boards. This season the Pistons will need Henry Ellenson to become an above average big man the Pistons can count on to score and defend. In my formula of success, it will be Blake Griffin who instills confidence in his teammates and also provides an enforcer type mentality when it comes to getting the most out of every teammate.

4. Moreland, Kennard need to come into training camp with added muscle and Blake Griffin has to be the guy who creates fun for players like those two who is a high energy team orientated players. Blake will have his hands full doing more than just jacking up shots. He needs to be the MAN. Every good team needs one. There is no other player on the roster who can provide real leadership. Success rides on what Blake Griffin decides to do for this Piston team next year. He has the chance of becoming a real hero in Detroit. Will he decide to be that guy we fans need?

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:42 pm

Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Given my praise of Vince Ellis, I should have read his recent stuff asserting that the team's interest in Casey is "lukewarm" before posting on Casey seeming like a shoo in.  Wow, this is more interesting than I had thought.  Still can't believe in Smith or Howard, but the designer of Toronto's O sounds like an intriguing candidate.
I agree, none of these guys have a chance against Casey, and they're being interviewed mostly out of respect, showing other teams that they're at least in the game, that wasn't the point we're troubled about.

Where's the respect for Zeke or Laimbeer? If you can give these guys who have absolutely no chance an interview, what about these two former Piston greats who do have a ton of experience? Color me PISSED!

Speaking of former Pistons, here's a balst from the past and maybe the present if he comes home in the front office.

Oracle you have made my day. I had been thinking about Prince and his rookie season on my run this morning. We fans were all wondering why on Earth would any coach play both Ben Wallace and Michael Curry in the starting lineup. Throughout that season Curry was no offensive threat. Wallace was doing his job as paint protector. Meanwhile Prince played well earlier in the season when giving the opportunity but the coach brought Curry back in after he recovered from his injury and Prince was the forgotten odd man out. Orlando kicked the Pistons asses in the playoffs until Prince came to the rescue. And what a moment that was for all fans when Prince raced back on defense to block that shot. Great job Oracle!

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Sparma

Post  Oracle on Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:39 pm

Sparma wrote:Given my praise of Vince Ellis, I should have read his recent stuff asserting that the team's interest in Casey is "lukewarm" before posting on Casey seeming like a shoo in.  Wow, this is more interesting than I had thought.  Still can't believe in Smith or Howard, but the designer of Toronto's O sounds like an intriguing candidate.
I agree, none of these guys have a chance against Casey, and they're being interviewed mostly out of respect, showing other teams that they're at least in the game, that wasn't the point we're troubled about.

Where's the respect for Zeke or Laimbeer? If you can give these guys who have absolutely no chance an interview, what about these two former Piston greats who do have a ton of experience? Color me PISSED!

Speaking of former Pistons, here's a balst from the past and maybe the present if he comes home in the front office.
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Casey

Post  Sparma on Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:34 am

Given my praise of Vince Ellis, I should have read his recent stuff asserting that the team's interest in Casey is "lukewarm" before posting on Casey seeming like a shoo in. Wow, this is more interesting than I had thought. Still can't believe in Smith or Howard, but the designer of Toronto's O sounds like an intriguing candidate.
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Unbelievable

Post  BallinD on Thu May 31, 2018 8:00 pm

You said a mouthful there Oracle. And WTF,  as far as feelings go I feel exactly the same way for the first time in my adult life as a Pistons Fan. Sympatico.  Some of the passion is wavering and I don't like how that feels at all.  I guess once things start truly moving forward, there will be some things to cheer about, but no real hope we're on an upward trajectory toward something special we can all get behind.
 
WTF wrote:
Oracle wrote:The successful franchises all seem to understand that their former greats add tremendous value to the city, the team, and players individually. Why can't Gores and his clown car of cluster f**kers get this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/05/31/pistons-reportedly-set-to-interview-kenny-smith-and-juwan-howard-for-head-coach/?utm_term=.df863ba54fe2 wrote:On an episode of “Inside the NBA” shortly after Van Gundy was fired, Barkley said that the Pistons should hire their greatest former player, Isiah Thomas, to be their new head of basketball operations. Both Smith and O’Neal vocally supported the idea, but Detroit has yet to fill that position.

Seriously it really makes me not want to be a fan of this franchise anymore.  I'm really starting to this current regime and team.
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Coach search

Post  Sparma on Thu May 31, 2018 4:37 pm

I'm guessing that Kenny Smith and Juwan Howard are not terribly serious candidates, unless one of them can catapult beyond the primary candidate during the process. It feels like the search is tilted to coronating one candidate, again unless he blows it: Dwayne Casey.

Also, we can likely call this charade a wrap within a week.


cool breeze wrote:What ever happened to listening to your customers? Will the owner ever get it right? Don't bet that he will. It is clear to me that Tom Gores wants a push over type head coach. He wants a coach who he can manipulate to run the same 4 out and 1 in offense that his pet players are familiar with and someone who will be a milk toast type person with no spine. Maybe I am wrong and nobody we all know wants to be part of this dysfunctional Piston program because they know there is no chance of being successful.

With that said, I watched the 7th game again between Golden State and Houston and it made me feel really good to see how hard players played in that game. Houston players played their hearts out on defense and the same was true with every Golden State player. That game was nothing like what i saw in games involving the Pistons and their opponents in the regular season. What I saw was players playing hard in brief segments but never for an entire game. That is the regular season in the NBA. The greed is so great that owners, agents, players and the television networks are destroying the credibility of the regular season. There are just too many games strung too close together for players to keep their sanity or ability to compete energy wise. Some of the weaker teams like our Pistons win some games that they would not normally win of their opponent was more rested. Playing 3 games in 4 or 5 nights while traveling in the winter leaves players bone tired. That is why some of our guys look like they are in a fog while running in transition. It does take an incredible coach to manage a team for the long haul. I believe that former successful NBA players know what it is like to perform and deal with the regular season schedule. Players for the Pistons include Isiah Thomas who was able to motivate his teammates enough for them to refuse to lose. Why this owner ignores his fan base and the former Piston greats is amazing. He is getting advise from the wrong people for sure. But that has been going on since he bought the team. Is Tellum telling him what to do? Is it his actor friends in Hollywood? Michael Jordan used to advise Joe Dumars intentionally telling him to draft Rodney White and perhaps Darko. We Piston fans have not experienced this much incompetence before Tom Gores bought the team even considering the White-Darko fiasco.

Who on this forum who lives in the Detroit area will attend one game next season if the choice of head coach and GM happens to be the people who have been mentioned so far? Has this owner gone insane? Is he paying money to fools and actually listening to their advice? Or has the owner pleaded to some of our old heroes to take the GM or head coaching job and they have refused because they don't like the current players and know the financial position of the pistons is so bad that nothing can be done to improve the roster in the near future? Most of us have questions that are not being answered by the Detroit media or the owner. It looks to me that his owner is desperate and has no top tier coach or former Piston star who wants the job although Zeke did say he wanted one of the jobs being mentioned. Who is advising Tom Gores that might not like Zeke? Who is trying to sabotage the Detroit Pistons????
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Kenny Smith and now Juwan Howard as the Pistons new coach? The Piston fan base is going going GONE. The people in Hollywood and his group of trusted friends in the entertainment business will tell him what to do.

Post  cool breeze on Thu May 31, 2018 12:41 pm

What ever happened to listening to your customers? Will the owner ever get it right? Don't bet that he will. It is clear to me that Tom Gores wants a push over type head coach. He wants a coach who he can manipulate to run the same 4 out and 1 in offense that his pet players are familiar with and someone who will be a milk toast type person with no spine. Maybe I am wrong and nobody we all know wants to be part of this dysfunctional Piston program because they know there is no chance of being successful.

With that said, I watched the 7th game again between Golden State and Houston and it made me feel really good to see how hard players played in that game. Houston players played their hearts out on defense and the same was true with every Golden State player. That game was nothing like what i saw in games involving the Pistons and their opponents in the regular season. What I saw was players playing hard in brief segments but never for an entire game. That is the regular season in the NBA. The greed is so great that owners, agents, players and the television networks are destroying the credibility of the regular season. There are just too many games strung too close together for players to keep their sanity or ability to compete energy wise. Some of the weaker teams like our Pistons win some games that they would not normally win of their opponent was more rested. Playing 3 games in 4 or 5 nights while traveling in the winter leaves players bone tired. That is why some of our guys look like they are in a fog while running in transition. It does take an incredible coach to manage a team for the long haul. I believe that former successful NBA players know what it is like to perform and deal with the regular season schedule. Players for the Pistons include Isiah Thomas who was able to motivate his teammates enough for them to refuse to lose. Why this owner ignores his fan base and the former Piston greats is amazing. He is getting advise from the wrong people for sure. But that has been going on since he bought the team. Is Tellum telling him what to do? Is it his actor friends in Hollywood? Michael Jordan used to advise Joe Dumars intentionally telling him to draft Rodney White and perhaps Darko. We Piston fans have not experienced this much incompetence before Tom Gores bought the team even considering the White-Darko fiasco.

Who on this forum who lives in the Detroit area will attend one game next season if the choice of head coach and GM happens to be the people who have been mentioned so far? Has this owner gone insane? Is he paying money to fools and actually listening to their advice? Or has the owner pleaded to some of our old heroes to take the GM or head coaching job and they have refused because they don't like the current players and know the financial position of the pistons is so bad that nothing can be done to improve the roster in the near future? Most of us have questions that are not being answered by the Detroit media or the owner. It looks to me that his owner is desperate and has no top tier coach or former Piston star who wants the job although Zeke did say he wanted one of the jobs being mentioned. Who is advising Tom Gores that might not like Zeke? Who is trying to sabotage the Detroit Pistons????

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It's Really Sad

Post  WTF on Thu May 31, 2018 11:19 am

Oracle wrote:The successful franchises all seem to understand that their former greats add tremendous value to the city, the team, and players individually. Why can't Gores and his clown car of cluster f**kers get this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/05/31/pistons-reportedly-set-to-interview-kenny-smith-and-juwan-howard-for-head-coach/?utm_term=.df863ba54fe2 wrote:On an episode of “Inside the NBA” shortly after Van Gundy was fired, Barkley said that the Pistons should hire their greatest former player, Isiah Thomas, to be their new head of basketball operations. Both Smith and O’Neal vocally supported the idea, but Detroit has yet to fill that position.

Seriously it really makes me not want to be a fan of this franchise anymore.  I'm really starting to this current regime and team.
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Kenny Smith, Juwan Howard... Why can't Zeke or Laimbeer even get a call???

Post  Oracle on Thu May 31, 2018 11:08 am

The successful franchises all seem to understand that their former greats add tremendous value to the city, the team, and players individually. Why can't Gores and his clown car of cluster f**kers get this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/05/31/pistons-reportedly-set-to-interview-kenny-smith-and-juwan-howard-for-head-coach/?utm_term=.df863ba54fe2 wrote:On an episode of “Inside the NBA” shortly after Van Gundy was fired, Barkley said that the Pistons should hire their greatest former player, Isiah Thomas, to be their new head of basketball operations. Both Smith and O’Neal vocally supported the idea, but Detroit has yet to fill that position.
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Sorry Wise, this is a knock on Kenny... WTF???

Post  Oracle on Wed May 30, 2018 8:30 pm

WTF wrote:Seriously they're interviewing Kenny Smith, no knock on Kenny but this seems comical  jocolor
Please, this makes us look STUPID, IMO. Kenny is great on TV, and I'm sure the players will like him, but as coach? Please!!!

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Wise

Post  Oracle on Wed May 30, 2018 8:28 pm

Advanced stats are very useful, you just have to find the ones that deliver good and true value.

They shouldn't be the final determiner, but used as another factor in making decisions.

BTW, very few players should be using winning a championship as their goal, that's a waste of energy, IMO. It's just as silly to make your goal to be the president of the country, there are way too many factors involved and you have little to no control of any of them except yourself.

The goal should be to get better, work to make others better, and when/if the opportunity presents itself, i.e., you management has found the right guys, your chemistry is right, coaching works, then the goal changes from being your best to being the next champ!

Not a single team we've had won, or were capable of winning it all until they grew, you can't short circuit the growth process, and in fact, I appreciated the growth in both the Bad Boys and the 2004 team as much as the winning, because the trials they went through made the winning all the more sweet.
WTF wrote:
Oracle wrote:I think the issues come with some of the advanced stats, which people come up with to better understand facets of the game, but SHOULD be taken with a grain of salt.

I think they're used to conjure up meaningless debate or perhaps to tell us something other than what we're really seeing.  Real athletes don't want to be measured by numbers but by victories and championships.  Stats are a bonus and only bring athletes a small amount of pleasure and athletes understand how empty numbers are if not accompanied with championships, if not a great deal of career success.     

Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with individual accomplishments and athletes are okay with that but I doubt if they buy into the theories of advance stats.  

I believe advance stats are a farce that lead to falsehood and the belief of them.
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Oh My God They've Killed Kenny, You Bastards!!!!

Post  WTF on Wed May 30, 2018 6:48 pm

Seriously they're interviewing Kenny Smith, no knock on Kenny but this seems comical  jocolor
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