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Modern Era Rebound Single Game

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:10 am

[th]Rank[/th][th]Player[/th][th]TRB[/th][th]Date[/th][th]Tm[/th]
1.Charles Oakley351988-04-22CHI
2.Rony Seikaly341993-03-03MIA
 Dennis Rodman*341992-03-04DET
4.Charles Barkley*331996-11-02HOU
 Kevin Willis331992-02-19ATL
6.Dennis Rodman*321994-01-22SAS
 Dennis Rodman*321992-01-28DET
8.Kevin Love312010-11-12MIN
 Dikembe Mutombo*311996-03-26DEN
 Dennis Rodman*311992-03-14DET
 Kevin Willis311991-12-03ATL
12.Andrew Bynum302012-04-11LAL
 Dennis Rodman*301995-02-21SAS
 Michael Cage301988-04-24LAC
15.Andre Drummond292015-11-03DET
 Timofey Mozgov292014-04-10DEN
 Nikola Vucevic292012-12-31ORL
 Dikembe Mutombo*292001-01-31ATL
 Dikembe Mutombo*291999-12-14ATL
 Dennis Rodman*291997-12-27CHI
 Dennis Rodman*291993-11-09SAS
 Herb Williams291989-01-23IND
23.Tyson Chandler282013-02-27NYK
 Ben Wallace282002-03-24DET
 Ben Wallace282001-04-17DET
 Dikembe Mutombo*282000-12-26ATL
 Popeye Jones281996-01-09DAL
 Dennis Rodman*281993-12-01SAS
 Shaquille O'Neal*281993-11-20ORL
30.Tyson Chandler272016-01-23PHO
 Andre Drummond272015-11-08DET
 DeAndre Jordan272015-02-09LAC
 Andrew Bogut272011-01-07MIL
 Tim Duncan272010-01-27SAS
 Marcus Camby272008-12-17LAC
 Ben Wallace272006-12-15CHI
 Dennis Rodman*271997-12-29CHI
 Charles Barkley*271996-12-04HOU
 Popeye Jones271996-04-06DAL
 Dennis Rodman*271995-03-05SAS
 Dennis Rodman*271995-02-07SAS
 Dennis Rodman*271992-12-23DET
 Dennis Rodman*271992-02-18DET
 Dennis Rodman*271992-01-23DET
 James Donaldson271989-12-29DAL
 Buck Williams271987-02-01NJN
 Moses Malone*271984-03-25PHI
48.Dwight Howard262016-01-18HOU
 DeAndre Jordan262015-03-01LAC
 Andre Drummond262014-04-11DET
 Andre Drummond262014-03-03DET
 Dwight Howard262013-10-30HOU
 Reggie Evans262013-03-27BRK
 Dwight Howard262013-01-06LAL
 Al Jefferson262012-04-16UTA
 Tim Duncan262010-02-17SAS
 Al Jefferson262010-01-13MIN
 Joel Przybilla262008-03-22POR
 Andris Biedrins262008-01-27GSW
 Dwight Howard262006-04-15ORL
 Erick Dampier262005-01-29DAL
 Shaquille O'Neal*262004-03-21LAL
 Lorenzen Wright262001-11-04MEM
 Chris Webber262001-01-05SAC
 Jayson Williams261997-11-13NJN
 Ervin Johnson261997-04-19DEN
 Dennis Rodman*261997-01-10CHI
 Charles Barkley*261995-03-24PHO
 Dikembe Mutombo*261994-11-11DEN
 Dennis Rodman*261994-02-19SAS
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-11DET
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-09DET
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-08DET
 Patrick Ewing*261992-12-19NYK
 Dennis Rodman*261992-02-16DET
 Dennis Rodman*261992-02-06DET
 Charles Shackleford261990-02-20NJN
 Otis Thorpe261990-02-15HOU
 Charles Oakley261986-03-15CHI
80.Rudy Gobert252017-01-20UTA
 DeAndre Jordan252016-12-28LAC
 Hassan Whiteside252016-11-15MIA
 Bismack Biyombo252016-03-17TOR
 Andre Drummond252015-03-11DET
 Hassan Whiteside252015-03-04MIA
 Kenneth Faried252014-12-26DEN
 Tyson Chandler252014-11-26DAL
 J.J. Hickson252014-02-25DEN
 Anderson Varejao252014-01-02CLE
 LaMarcus Aldridge252013-12-12POR
 John Henson252013-04-10MIL
 Dwight Howard252012-03-13ORL
 Ersan Ilyasova252012-02-19MIL
 Dwight Howard252012-01-18ORL
 Zach Randolph252010-02-27MEM
 Marcus Camby252010-01-20LAC
 Dwight Howard252007-01-10ORL
 Emeka Okafor252006-12-29CHA
 Kevin Garnett252005-01-12MIN
 Erick Dampier252004-03-28GSW
 Kevin Garnett252003-12-05MIN
 Tim Duncan252003-02-01SAS
 Dikembe Mutombo*252000-02-18ATL
 Jamie Feick252000-01-20NJN
 Lorenzen Wright251999-03-11LAC
 Dennis Rodman*251997-12-23CHI
 Patrick Ewing*251997-02-23NYK
 Charles Barkley*251997-01-10HOU
 Jayson Williams251996-01-30NJN
 Dennis Rodman*251995-01-22SAS
 Dennis Rodman*251994-03-26SAS
 Olden Polynice251993-12-08DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-11-10SAS
 Shaquille O'Neal*251993-04-20ORL
 Kevin Willis251993-04-13ATL
 Kevin Willis251993-03-29ATL
 Dennis Rodman*251993-03-26DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-03-07DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-02-23DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-03-20DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-03-18DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-02-19DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-01-31DET
 Dennis Rodman*251991-12-13DET
 Jerome Lane251991-04-21DEN
 Larry Smith251991-02-16HOU
 Larry Smith251991-02-03HOU
 Roy Tarpley251990-04-01DAL
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251990-02-27HOU
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251989-12-17HOU
 Mark Eaton251989-03-15UTA
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251989-02-21HOU
 Mark Eaton251987-11-17UTA
 Charles Barkley*251987-03-24PHI
 Charles Barkley*251987-03-20PHI
 Artis Gilmore*251987-01-17SAS
 Robert Parish*251987-01-09BOS
 Charles Barkley*251986-03-30PHI
 Robert Parish*251986-03-08BOS
 Ralph Sampson*251985-12-26HOU
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251985-03-05HOU
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251985-02-14HOU
 Edgar Jones251984-03-13SAS
 Maurice Lucas251983-12-26PHO
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As with most things... it's complicated, but...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:17 am

We're missing a CLOSER!!! However, here are the main culprits.

1. Bradley sits front and center, especially in this game. Why is he playing in the 4th? Ish passes him the ball and he passes it right back, forcing Ish to be the guy taking deep 2's or 3's, and that's Reggie's game, not Ish.  Ish becomes the guy to take shots because after Bradley's fear of missing, which is real, Harris starts feeling the pressure, as did Kennard & Stanley. If Drummond wasn't converting so many of their misses, we would have been blown out.

2. SVG is doing is playing not to lose, but even worse, he can't adapt to his roster to save his life. Sparma nailed it when he said that he should have subbed in Galloway for Ish! You needed a shooter, especially if you're going to insist on playing a totally ineffective Bradley.

Drummond had a game that Lanier, Laimbeer or Big Ben would have been crying to have, he out shown all of them! This was a MONSTER performance by Drummond, and I don't say that lightly.

Wise, I agree about the 20/20 or close to it every night, but this performance was other worldly! Drummond on many occasions just wouldn't be denied, and his block of Golbert was a thing of beauty, and that game saving block of Mitchell was Big Ben like!

You're right, I'd give anything to get this level of rebounding and defense every night and I wouldn't complain if he scored a bit less.

The last reason we are losing is we need a PG, we're missing our flawed leader Reggie very badly when it comes time to close out games. Go back and see what I wrote before the season!

I said what we lose when we move BOTH KCP and Morris were closers, and that left only one in Reggie. now that Reggie is down, you can't lean on role players like Harris, who's the best of the rest. I won't put that on youngsters, it's too early to expect that they can close games regularly.
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AD

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:37 am

Wise:
"As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself."

I think it's mlive that reports no NBA player's put up these numbers since 1973-74 (or as long as recorded).

I'm not quite sure how I'd compare Drummond to Laimbeer and Wallace on the whole (I'd have him behind Lanier), but my instinct would be to acknowledge he's weaker in some ways (defensive positioning), but also better in certain respects (offensive rebounding).

I'll stick with being skeptical that he's the guy to lead the charge, but this was a historic night for him. Evidently no (Piston) center's been known to match him in the set of statistical categories where he exceled tonight. That doesn't tell the whole story, but it's quite something.


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SVG Need To Be Kicked In The Face

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:21 am

If Andre was trying to make a statement it needs to go far beyond this game.  As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself.   I'm always saying there's no reason he shouldn't be a consistent 20-20 guy every game.

Still I have issues about this performance especially if it was motivated solely on being snubbed as he thinks.  Why not be motivated by the desire to win or motivated by the fact that you have 125 million dollar deal.  Forget the points and rebounds I was more impressed by the 6 blocks another thing we should see on a more consistent basis as well.

I'm not trashing him I'm just being honest and keeping it in it's proper perspective.  Also he doesn't get that free pass Sparma of who he's playing with just my opinion.  Bill couldn't jump 2 inches but play smart tough position basketball, and had range from 3 point line to the paint, he was very capable of 20-20 nightly but he was on the floor with another rebounding demon (Worm).  While I could never expect 30 point out of Big Ben he was much in the manner of Rodman a Defensive Demon.    Andre doesn't have that It Factor, that extra thing that Bill and Ben had.  

If he plays like he did tonight for the remainder of the season especially the blocks, then I'll be convince he's arrived.  These numbers he had tonight are the same number he needed to put on Embiid after being punk that first game.   

In fairness though Andre didn't lose this game as usual his coach did.  Again I'll keep stressing my point on the number of 3's why they lose games like these.  SVG say it was the 20 TO's SMH,  I guess the bad shooting had nothing to do with it.  facepalm
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Utah

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:14 am

Andre with 30 and 24, HoF numbers, and HoF game. Complaint: it seems like a lot of his bounce passes inside have gone for TOs recently. Still, let's appreciate what we have in him. His game's still got serious flaws, but in a number of significant ways he's better than B. Wallace and Laimbeer. Those guys were part of dream ensemble casts (with a superstar added in on the Bad Boys); the present cast comes nowhere near those championship teams. But Andre does, the way he played tonight, and much of this season.

Noticing the line up at 89-82 (AD, Tobias, Ish, Stanley J, and Bradley), I wondered how they were going to create O. They didn't. Tolliver and Kennard (easily the only two + guys for the night, with Boban neutral) needed to be in there for SJ (moving Harris to SF) and Bradley. It came as no surprise that they sputtered. SVG fielded a related question, saying it was the best defensive unit. Possibly, although debatable (Tolliver's been pretty great on D most of the year). But it goes back to my complaint that SVG coaches to avoid failure too much: he's coaching not to lose, when he needed to keep the offensive pressure on, go for the win (how many football games have been blown with teams playing not to lose at the end?). I may even have switched in Galloway for Ish.

All credit to Spencer the other night, but that may have been a low % percentage shot for the win. This one, you could see coming. Utah's a solid team, but our (avoidable) collapse made for a terrible loss.
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Another Loss I Saw It Coming

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:49 pm

Oracle wrote:At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!

I'm not surprised one bit facepalm
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If you can't BLOW out a team like Utah...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 pm

At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!
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Mitchell plays like Bradley isn't even there!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:34 pm

Where is the effing defense???

Mitchell needs no screens or anything, he just goes around Bradley like he isn't even there!

Seconds left, and Drummond is keeping us in this game with his defense and offense!
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End of regulation, on to OT!!!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:23 pm

Drummond, this is the way you fight back if you think you've been dissed, you go out and have a GREAT game!

That's exactly what the big fella did, he filled up the stat sheet and was totally impressive on BOTH ends of the floor!

Ish made a fantastic defensive play in the 4th, but Kennard just couldn't hit the shot to win it!

Bradley is too scared to take a shot... please move this guy SVG!
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Stuff

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:28 pm

I hope this media whining about the alleged stop as well,  we all been around long enough to see what an All Star actually look like I mean really we had many over the past 20 years.  I can't think of one time that any of them didn't deserve being selected either by the fans or coaches this whining of Andre's is very disturbing to say the least.  

24 players get selected every year so every years someone feels like they've been snubbed and most don't go to twitter to whine like a little bitch about not getting selected.   You want to mad at someone be mad at yourself because you are the only reason you're sitting on the outside looking in.  Let Embiid take your spot when he publically punk you in the media then you lose 3 times to him SMH.  You got played and was too stupid to see it coming because you're a damn goof ball.

175 years in addition to the 60 years for the child.  Once you get to prison you might not make to 30 years.  I don't feel bad for you sir but its just sad that a you chose to take advantage of all those young girls.  I do think MSU should hold some accountability in this I'm just not sure to what extent it seems that someone should have know something.

Did the NFL really claim they fix games or was what I was watching was more fake/fabricate FB News?  We know refs blow calls, we know they secretly do make up calls.  Not saying games can't be fixed but it's kind of hard from a ref perspective seems more feasible and likely they a player could miss passes, drop balls, blown field goals, miss tackles.  I just think between instant replay, and challenge flags by coaches it would be a little difficult.   

SVG you too just shut up on the snub thing as well,  you know damn well he didn't deserve to go and the only reason you're speaking on it is because you bear some of blame why he didn't get selected.  In fact your so shady you probably didn't vote for him either.  Instead of pacifying him be truthful with him about why he was snubbed. 

Fire SVG Please
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:35 am

Drummond getting snubbed is just the icing on the cake to this season.  If Drummond played with Lebron or Kyrie Irving the way Love and Horford do, then the Pistons would be in contention also. And Drummond had nothing to do with Reggie Jackson getting hurt.

Oh well, I don't watch the All Star game anyway. Sleep
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:41 pm

I think it's funny and I'm cracking the hell up laughing about it.  Andre just shut up, man up and play ball and not just some time do it all the time.  The reason why the coaches didn't select you because you are an underachiever and they can see it.   

I said this before and I'll say it one more time the reality is that your basically still a season or 2 where you should be.  When they selected you the first time you were on pace but then you sucked so bad last season you felled behind. You didn't get better you got worse.

Also coaches don't care about back flips and that comment just shows how out of touch you really are as far as what make an All Star.  GROW UP!!!!
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Surprise Surprise

Post  BallinD on Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:14 pm

I never thought he would get the nod, especially with the emergence of Embiid.  He deserves it over Horford based on the stat test, but factor in the winning and it's clear why Horford got it.  He did get love from a lot of pundits and writers, so I am glad that the recognition of his efforts and especially FTs is out there in the public sphere, but I never thought he deserved it over Embiid, who took his lunch money this year.  Too much up and down and his comment is borderline delusional, IMO.  What you have to do is protect the rim, dunk on the heads of those who oppose you, and quit doing the dipsy doo when you get to the hoop...Go Hard, Young Man, Go Hard!! Hope he will play with a chip on his shoulder!  lol

Oracle wrote:Drummond was passed over? Hell, to be passed over, you have to be in the running, he wasn't!

Raise your hand if you thought Bradley would be an all star. I didn't, but I didn't know how bad he turned out to be, although Van Gundy's offense/defense seems to have that effect on players.

Harris started the season like one, but he faded fast, but I think the surprise was that Drummond, by far our best player(let that sink in for a minute), didn't make it shocked the local media.

Utah is coming in and we need to win this one for Kennard, just for the moral victory, but there is no doubt Mitchell is by far the better all around player. He should thank his lucky stars SVG didn't get his hands on him, he'd be riding the bench here or in the G-League for lack of defense!
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More AD

Post  Sparma on Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:30 pm

Other seem surprised by Drummond's snub too, not just local folks. An NBC* story features Lou Williams in the West and AD in the East, saying: "Likewise, Andre Drummond is having a statistically important year for the Detroit Pistons as he leads the league in rebounding and in defensive box plus/minus."

Not even quite sure what "in defensive box plus/minus" is, but if I'm guessing right what it is, that stat surprises me too.

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Surprising?

Post  Sparma on Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:16 pm

I find Drummond to be a tough one to figure, but yes I'm surprised. Can't remember a guy with those numbers being out. Rodman (a better player) never made the All-Star game, right, but than his overall stats weren't as good. Who am I forgetting? I watch little of the rest of the NBA, so others can set me straight on the eye test.

Here's one statistical measure that favors his cause: in PER Drummond edges out Love, and handily beats out all the other big guys who made the NBA East, i.e., Embiid, Porzingis, and Horford. I looked at another (WIN) ranking, which puts Horford first, but AD in front of the other East All Stars, including again Embiid [which doesn't mean I think AD's better than Embiid!].

It looks to me that it was less that AD lost out to other bigs, as that one big less than expected was chosen. A Sporting News guy predicted all the East bigs correctly, but added Drummond. Looks to me like Oladipo beat out AD.

And it can't help having a losing record!

All that said, I see serious flaws in AD's game (mainly defensive positioning), so in that way it's not shocking.

My guess is that he still makes it, once one (or two) Eastern choices beg off.

Could this possibly be an incentive for improvement on AD's part? If so, I'd happily take that outcome. Sour grapes, I suppose, but I don't think much of the format they're planning to use this year.


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This Is Why I Hate Him At Times

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Drummond wrote:[ltr]Guess I gotta start doing back flips after every point I score to get attention around here! [/ltr]

Geez!!! No you just have to play like you're worth the 125 million you're making.   This is what bothers me big time about him he actually think he's arrived to point where ASG selection is a given.  GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!!!!!!!

When you get thumped by Dwight Howard and punk by Embiid you're not deserving. After laying that egg after the first selection coaches no longer take you seriously.   I mean who didn't you think you are Cousins. 

Those that want to argue Big Ben and Rodman getting selected please note that they were defensive giants not just rebounding stats.  Why don't you just try shutting the hell up and dominate offensively and defensively like you should be doing already.
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Non News Flash: Drummond is not an All Star!

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:19 pm

Drummond was passed over? Hell, to be passed over, you have to be in the running, he wasn't!

Raise your hand if you thought Bradley would be an all star. I didn't, but I didn't know how bad he turned out to be, although Van Gundy's offense/defense seems to have that effect on players.

Harris started the season like one, but he faded fast, but I think the surprise was that Drummond, by far our best player(let that sink in for a minute), didn't make it shocked the local media.

Utah is coming in and we need to win this one for Kennard, just for the moral victory, but there is no doubt Mitchell is by far the better all around player. He should thank his lucky stars SVG didn't get his hands on him, he'd be riding the bench here or in the G-League for lack of defense!
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More Ranting

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:22 pm

Why not start Kennard at PG and Johnson at SG it wouldn't hurt much considering how thing been going.   Truthfully I would play give the bulk of minutes to Ellenson, Kennard and Johnson for the remainder of the season and let the chips fall where they may.   Forget any hopes of playoffs and start preparing for the draft this summer so if you can move pieces for picks be it 1st or 2nd do so.   

It only makes sense to do it this way because this team is just spinning its wheels and should be a lot further along then struggling for an 8th seed in the playoffs.  Lets just be 100% committed to fully trying to develop our last 3 picks and let them sink or swim then decide what you want to do with them come season end.   Give them all the practice time, and attention they need make them the focus of what you want to do, use the rest of these games teaching games win or lose.   

Scrap your stupid offense and run plays specifically designed to each ones talent and abilities.   I rather watch them lose games this way if I have to watch a loss at all.  Don't yank them if they make a mistake, don't yank them if they're not tired just let them play.  Don't give dumbass looks, criticize them, scream or howl at them, just freaking teach them.   Teach them to think,  tell them what you want them to do.  

Most of the time when I watch them play I often wonder if they're being taught at all.  How much hands on are they getting and who's working with them in practice.   This coaching staff sucks!!!!!! and I'm disappointed in Tim Hardaway, who's the big man coach? 


  • Head Coach


    • Stan Van Gundy
      (College - SUNY-Brockport)



  • Associate Head Coach


    • Bob Beyer
      (College - Alfred)



  • Assistant Coach


    • Malik Allen
      (College - Villanova)
    • Tim Hardaway
      (College - Texas-El Paso)
    • Charles Klask
      (College - Michigan State)
    • Aaron Gray
      (College - Pittsburgh)


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Start Kennard at point guard. With day off, SVG considers tweaks - offense sucks and defense is even worse over 5 game losing streak

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:18 pm

It is becoming tiring to read about the adjustments SVG needs to make to pull the team out of a rut. The truth is that the highest paid athletes are not playing at maximum ability or their ability is not as good as the opponent star players. Take your pick but I suspect the players we have who make the most money are just not good enough to beat the opponents best players. What SVG continues to ponder with his big adjustment decisions is to zero in on the fringe players and put one on the bench and replace that player with another young guy who is has some ability but is not making the big money. Your highest paid players cannot play average or below average. What is happening is that when everything does not go AD's way in the first half of games or in the 3rd quarter, he puts his foot off the gas and will coast for several minutes until the coach finally calls a timeout. Even though Smith does not make the same money as Drummond, Jackson or Harris, he is considered by SVG as a cornerstone it seems. At times Smith has played great but there have also been periods in games where his solo conduct has really hurt the team especially when he doesn't share the ball and then misses his shot. His defense is a problem as well. Yet this coach is concentrating on Johnson, Kennard and Bullock wondering which of those players will fit the starting lineup the best. Right now Bradley is off his game. This is the first time I have joined in on the criticism relating Bradley's faults. But in his defense as some have pointed out, he is not playing well with Ish Smith. He plays better with Jackson. Yet Smith is not in the conversation when SVG talks to his bought and paid for sports reporters. This is what I would do to tweak things.

If no trade is going to take place involving a point guard, start either Galloway or Buycks. Let Smith resume his role as a pace changer for the 2nd unit. The coach could also try Kennard as point guard which I think is the best idea. Luke can see the court as well or better than any other player on the team. He has been a really good football quarterback in high school so knowing that if I were coaching a struggling team that can't start the game well, then the point guard position is the first thing that I would look to tweak. Not SVG though, he is a stubborn cuss. He loves Ish Smith so emotion rules and logic and reason is non existent. Kennard immediately gives the starting unit better defense. Bradley for sure would be more successful. Kennard would not go solo and run his self created offense. He would run the motion offense so his teammates would know ahead of time what the hell was going to happen when he would bring the ball up the court. Now starting payers have no idea what Smith is going to do. Will he go solo and drive into the paint and then dribble back out. Will he pass the ball to Harris who has to fight to get open to even receive the basketball being opponents all know Smith looks first to pass the ball to Harris. If Kennard played point guard I believe this Piston team would look much different. Then I would start Stanley Johnson who plays really well with both Kennard and Bradley. All three of those players have a high basketball IQ and could play off each other. AD would still be a facilitator but could pass the ball with much more proficiency because Kennard, Bradley and Johnson all move without the ball and have quick recognition skills. The Pistons would be scoring more inside the paint. Harris would have a much easier time on offense because opponents would be really busy trying to guard Kennard, Bradley and Johnson. And Johnson sets good screens which would really help Kennard, Bradley and Harris. And Johnson is a guy who plays inside the paint on defense well and could help AD on the boards and in help defense when drivers get by the perimeter defenders. This is a no brainer to me. Kennard should be playing point guard in the starting unit and if that happens Johnson starts at small forward. But instead, SVG will come up with some dumb ass plan picking one of the two players who should both be starting. Bullock could start in place of Johnson if the coach insists because of his outside shooting potential. But the combination of Kennard and Johnson is a good thing and should not be overlooked by a coach who is close to being fired. It is time to put aside the emotions and blatant bias relating to SVG's love affair with Ish Smith. The team is losing and it is easy to see why they are losing. The current group of players who start do not play well together. Whatever SVG might do will not change a damn thing unless he changes the starting point guard. And if Kennard did play that position, everyone would forget about Reggie Jackson's injury and hope he doesn't return.

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Murph: Kidd?

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:16 pm

Kidd may be the best available, but his problem has been arrogance and general assholery! He can coach, but likely would tear his scalp(most of the hair has been long gone) out with the PG's we have. Of course, I had a hard time trying to convince people that while Reggie wasn't perfect, he has the capability to make this team work. Bradley has looked like sh!t since Reggie went down, he needs a PG to feed off of and divert the defenses attention.

However, I totally agree about Sessions, he's just amazing(yeah, I'm a fan of his) and would easily be the best guard on this team by a long shot!

BTW: Last season it seemed like we were playing games back to back to back to back damn near all of the time. So far this season, we seem to have plenty of time between games, so we're really rested. That's also another reason I don't understand why we're losing so much.
Murph wrote:If the Pistons were smart, they'd hire Jason Kidd as Head Coach immediately.  Coaches like Kidd are not available often.  And IMO, Kidd is an excellent PG coach, which is what the Pistons need most.

The year before Kidd took over, the Bucks went 15-67...15-67!  In the four years since Kidd was hired, the Bucks have only had one losing season.  The turn-around under Kidd's leadership has been miraculous.


It's too bad the Pistons didn't try to pick up a veteran PG such as Ramon Sessions, immediately after Reggie went down.  Since then the 'Stone's have lost 9 out of 12, including 5 in a row.  
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Jason Kidd

Post  Murph on Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:02 pm

If the Pistons were smart, they'd hire Jason Kidd as Head Coach immediately.  Coaches like Kidd are not available often.  And IMO, Kidd is an excellent PG coach, which is what the Pistons need most.

The year before Kidd took over, the Bucks went 15-67...15-67! In the four years since Kidd was hired, the Bucks have only had one losing season. The turn-around under Kidd's leadership has been miraculous.


It's too bad the Pistons didn't try to pick up a veteran PG such as Ramon Sessions, immediately after Reggie went down. Since then the 'Stone's have lost 9 out of 12, including 5 in a row.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:35 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:If you don't mind I want to throw in this final thought. The Pistons would be very foolish to throw in any draft pick including a 2nd rounder if they have one this season. I don't care if they draft in the 20th position. The only way the Pistons will be a big winner is through the draft. The college kids are getting better and better. At some time if the Pistons keep their picks, they will score big.
I totally agree!!!

Don, I'm in the mode that we need to be collecting 1st & 2nd round picks, NOT giving them away.

We have some good young talent right now, from the very young(Stanley, Kennard & Ellenson) to a bit older talent(Bullock, Harris & Drummond).

We need to be adding to that talent while keeping the best of the bench players and go totally young. The baby Bulls are thriving playing young, that's our best hope!

I would love to get Walker, but not if we have to take on more salary or dead weight that isn't expiring... time to get smart!

Let's hope Piston management and the owner think the same way. It seems that all of the trade experts include our draft picks with their proposed trade deals involving the Pistons. Maybe they know the mind of Stan Van Gundy and believe he is one deal maker who wouldn't blink with giving up our draft picks if he can somehow save his job by making the 8th spot in the playoffs. The standard for SVG keeping his job should be that he gets the Pistons into at least the 4th spot in the Eastern conference. If SVG thinks he will be fired will he make some bad trades and leave the Pistons in ruins or will he do the right thing and have the Piston fans with some form of hope for the future? This is Stan Van Gundy's last job as a coach or holding any other future position of importance in the NBA. Maybe the most difficult thing to do wearing the GM hat for the Pistons is making a trade involving the point guard position. Jackson's trade value went up temporarily earlier in the season. It started to go down before his current injury because of his inept defense and inconsistent ability to lead the team from the point guard position. It seems impossible to move his contract now. Yet all the trade talk involving the pIstons centers around potential trades for point guards. That must mean the Pistons are shopping Ish Smith not Reggie. Maybe SVG will bet all the marbles that Reggie Jackson will finish the season strong and get the Piston into the playoffs. If there could be a small trade involving a back up type point guard with the Pistons giving up Smith and another piece that doesn't include any of our young talent or a first round pick, then if the new point guard makes the team better, go for it. Maybe the guy I like, Avery Bradley, would be included to make a deal work. Otherwise I would not make any trade unless SVG could pull off the deal of the century involving the Pistons highest rated trade material, Andre Drummond. Some teams would be willing to give up some really talented players to get AD. Those players might make the Pistons better in the long run. The chemistry is not very good among the current starting group. If nothing happens, SVG has to make some changes there.

I like the article today relating to Henry Ellenson. SVG must believe that he will be around for awhile. He keeps saying that Ellenson has the ability to be a really good NBA player. Yet he brought in Tolliver to stabilize team chemistry with his leadership ability and consistency on both offense and defense. That was a good move but took Ellenson out of contention for minutes even with Leuer out for the season. Plus Moreland has provided some good defense taking up minutes as backup center. The Pistons need a spark. Harris has good numbers scoring yet he is so hot and cold and is missing shots close to the basket in big situations. I think it is time to mix in Ellenson for regular minutes at both center and power forward. See which position he looks best playing right now. I can't see that he is any worse than Harris is on defense playing against power forwards. He bangs in the paint and could match up well against some NBA centers especially with his ability to make shots from the free throw line and out. Henry needs to get a long look not just spot minutes. Right now the coach is showing Ellenson that he has no confidence in his abilities. He did that same thing with Spencer. Dinwiddie needed his coach to show him that he had his back. That is what a lot of extremely talented young NBA players really need. It is that lack of confidence the coach shows young players that kills their belief in themselves. Then they cannot provide anything productive for their team and just get workouts in at the whim of the assistant coaches schedule. It would have been much better for Ellenson to have been able to play in the G League and get consistent minutes there instead of sitting on the bench. When you are young and are forced to sit out almost every game, it kills you inside. There have been many times so far where our power forwards and centers really sucked, yet SVG never considered playing Ellenson. That is plan stupid and SVG knows better. Brad Stevens seems to find a way to play all of his players. SVG has given a long leash to Kennard which surprised me based on SVG's history. The owner needs to have a talk with his head coach.The Pistons are on a losing streak. This would be a good time to adjust the minutes and find some for Ellenson.

Buycks had a bad week after signing his contract. It seems that the head coach blames him for the losing streak yet the team kept on losing with Buycks on the bench. The team's highest paid players were not playing their best basketball. That was the reason why the team lost not the back up point guard's fault. He didn't play well but had played really well for two weeks straight. Why in the world does SVG decide to punish certain players and allow others to get away with complete lack of engagement? Buycks confidence must be pretty low now thanks to SVG. I would give him several more chances if no trade is made for a point guard. Smith is playing way too many minutes and he is matched up against players that he cannot guard and that takes a lot out of Smith as he does really try hard on defense. Both Galloway and Buycks can be used. There is no law out there that forbids a coach from playing more than 2 point guards in any one game. It seems that SVG has tunnel vision and is not an objective type coach. In the end that could send him packing and into retirement for good.

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Twin Knuckleheads

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:49 pm

Gilbert is about as stupid as Gores also because there is no way you have a player like Lebron and not have all the right pieces around him and that includes the right coach as well.  

It's like Gilbert didn't learn anything from the first time Lebron left when you lucky to have him back and he delivers you a title why find yourself back in a position of losing him again.  IMO he's gone after this season not where he'll end up but it'll be somewhere he going to win.  He should go play for Pop

This guys know how to make money but when it comes to sports they're stupid as holes in a water bucket.
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Poorly Coached and Poorly Motivated

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:16 pm

On the surface I wanted to predict this team was capable of winning 50 plus games, we do have a talented group of players.  It's not the best talent but it was capable of 50 wins with or without the obvious needed upgrades at PG and PF.  "However" deep down I couldn't get pass the 39 wins I predicted because I knew SVG would muck it up.  

SVG coaching really lacks creativity and that's okay if you can motivate players to play the right way every game all game long.  We know this can work because we watch LB do it.  I'm not saying SVG was more creative than LB or even equally for that matter, in fact he's far less creative and not nearly the motivator. I think the biggest difference between this 2 coaches beyond all the other obvious differences is that LB as hard as he was also was a teacher and it just seems to be SVG just likes to bark and criticize and play the role of victim.

I don't think Gores should wait to season end to fire SVG he really need to do it today/tomorrow but if he's not then he needs to be already thinking about a replacement come seasons end.  I hope Mr. Gore will do his homework on his next hire and not get caught up in what's popular, or names being dropped by ESPN or whomever as being the next great thing.  CB turn down the Cavs GM job before the season started maybe you might want to consider offering CB a position.  Sheed might not pass a drug screening but I can see him becoming a very good coach and boy I'm smiling now just imagining him getting tossed every other game and that's okay too because this team would be motivated, crafty, smart and tough.  Just give Zeke another opportunity I still believe in him and if you can give the job to SVG sorry ass you certainly can give it to Zeke.

These 3 hires alone would give you national media attention 365, 24/7 and that covers your entertainment portion, but rest assure that your team will play harder and smarter.  Hell they might even contend next season.

IJS facepalm
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Don

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:46 pm

Don wrote:If you don't mind I want to throw in this final thought. The Pistons would be very foolish to throw in any draft pick including a 2nd rounder if they have one this season. I don't care if they draft in the 20th position. The only way the Pistons will be a big winner is through the draft. The college kids are getting better and better. At some time if the Pistons keep their picks, they will score big.
I totally agree!!!

Don, I'm in the mode that we need to be collecting 1st & 2nd round picks, NOT giving them away.

We have some good young talent right now, from the very young(Stanley, Kennard & Ellenson) to a bit older talent(Bullock, Harris & Drummond).

We need to be adding to that talent while keeping the best of the bench players and go totally young. The baby Bulls are thriving playing young, that's our best hope!

I would love to get Walker, but not if we have to take on more salary or dead weight that isn't expiring... time to get smart!
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