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Ok, now let's get real about this team!

Post  Oracle on Wed May 16, 2018 9:12 pm

This isn't a bad team, this team can make the playoffs and get to the 2nd round with good coaching.

This is NOT the time to rebuild!

1. You can't rebuild with no #1 draft picks
2. We really got screwed because this draft is Big Man heavy, and with the kind of Modern Big Men we would want
3. We need to showcase the guys we want to move before we can move them.

So how should we proceed? My guess is the following

1. Showcase both Reggie & Blake by reducing their minutes as much as reasonably possible to keep them fresh and healthy.
2. We need to really see how both Reggie and Blake perform, injury wise. Blake went 4 years missing only 4 games, so will he get better? Reggie was under low usage in OKC, will the resting he's getting help him next year?
3. Drummond is capable of growing into a BEAST. Can a new coaching staff get that out of him? SVG was just horrible at developing anybody, not a single player got better than the skills they already brought to the table. I credit Drummond more than SVG for his development, but SVG does get a little there.
4. Make damn sure that Stanley, Ellenson & especially Kennard get good PT. IMO, all three have untapped potential that a better coaching staff could ignite.
5. Try hard to keep our role players, I also think they suffered under SVG.

Finally, just be prepared to make major moves especially if #1 picks can be had. If #1 picks are available then we can talk about a full rebuild!

However, this is a 45-50 win team with a good coach, and a ECF contender with a better PG, IMO!
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Rebuild Realism

Post  Murph on Wed May 16, 2018 3:03 pm

Don...thank you for interjecting some realism into your post today.  I don't necessarily believe that now is the time for a complete tear-down and re-build of our Pistons.  

However, if we are going to rebuild, we need to start with Blake Griffin's contract, first and always.  Griffin is the oldest of our stars, one of the most injury prone, and has the biggest, most onerous contract.  Griffin needs to be moved first in any rebuild.  It doesn't make sense to rebuild by trading younger players like Jackson and Drummond who have better contracts, while keeping Griffin.

After Griffin and his contract are moved, then Pistons management can think about moving the rest of the roster for draft picks.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed May 16, 2018 2:00 pm

Sparma wrote:Good point about the other teams that are worse off than us in draft prospects, Wise.

Oracle, your reference to "system" is likely where the two of us would most agree concerning the role of coaches.  Still, you write: "Here, they bought in" [to the system].  I'd agree, up to a point.  SVG wanted the team to bring the ball up faster than Reggie was willing to do so on the regular, and he wanted Reggie back quicker [some improvement there this year].  Also, in partial agreement with Don, I have trouble believing that Drummond consistently complied with the defensive assignment SVG drew up.  Still, at least for those first 20 games it looked like there was a nice alignment between team and coach.

And I've figured out who we should bring in as coach [mild attempt at humor ahead, along with something heartfelt]: Vince Lombardi.  Have been reading parts of an old book on coaches called Beyond Winning, that devotes a chapter to Lombardi.  The author, Walton, points out that Lombardi pulled off the all time turnaround (maybe along with Bill Walsh), coming into years of losing.  The remarkable thing is that the roster didn't turn over that much, with 3rd stringer Bart Starr, Heisman perceived flop Paul Hornung, and ineffective Jim Taylor among those already on board.  Lombardi did a number of things, foremost among which may have been running simple plays to perfection.  One player marveled that in a long training session they dwelled on two plays.

I'm afraid that the moral may be: we need a miracle, we need a Vince Lombardi.

In basketball terms, we may need someone like Mike d'Antoni who really imposes a system on his roster, emphasizing variations on a small number of plays.  Of course that didn't work well in NY or LA, and we (like NY and LA) don't have a roster well suited to his system.  An updated Phil Jackson (Steve Kerr?) might fit this roster well; with better than average passing out of PF and C and the need to conform our PG to the best interests of the team, I think an updated triangle might work well for us.

But what are the odds?  Lombardi does show that the kind of miracle we need can happen.  In fact the Pistons may well have better prospects than GB did when Lombardi arrived.

I still like Budenholzer, but evidently both Toronto and Milwaukee have made overtures already.

WTF wrote:
Sparma wrote:Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

These are all playoff teams the Pistons on the other hand are not so the sacrifice of a 1st is a lot worse.  But not to worry my prediction will come true

You have said all that needs to be said with the title to your most recent post "Our Fate Is Sealed". Dumb and Dumber was the title to a movie but if someone made a movie about the Pistons since Tom Gores brought the team wouldn't that be the appropriate title? A friend called me from Michigan last night after the draft lottery. He made the point that the only member of the current Piston team who was drafted in the top 5 is Blake Griffin. Then he laughed after telling me a story about how hard the Clippers were trying to trade Griffin when it was decided to blow up their team and start over. He made the point again that the Pistons have a history of negotiating much like our State Department did when they negotiated the Iran Nuke deal. First off they were negotiating with an elected leader who had no real decision making ability. The real leader was The head religious leader who was out demonstrating "Death to America" at the time. Tom Gores wanted Blake Griffin at any cost. No other team in the NBA was interested in Blake's ability to earn his amazing contract over the next 4 seasons. So just like our State Department the words spoken had to be " Hey what do you want to make a deal with us? We know there are a lot of other teams that want Blake's contract out there so please give us a chance. OK well we think that Tobias Harris is very young and has great potential but you will have to give us a lot more. Tom and SVG agree with no argument. OK well how about your back up center and that former stand out from Boston you traded for with Marcus Morris? OK no problem. OK you see my son really loves Blake so then do we have a deal? Well how about your number one pick too? You OK with that? Sure thing. Man we sure were a lot smarter than Joe Dumars when he threw in Middleton on that Jennings-Knight trade where no other team wanted Jennings either. This Detroit franchise is really going places now. My friend believes that is the way things went down in that trade. The Pistons have been known for a long time as having the dumbest front office in the entire NBA. Everyone gets the best of the Pistons. That is true even in free agency deals.

This is my solution to the current mess knowing this Piston team is going to never be good enough to win a series in the playoffs if they ever make the playoffs.

1. Trade Blake Griffin and agree to pay 50% of his contract.Get a number one draft pick in the deal.

2. Trade Andre Drummond under the condition that the trading partner also will take Reggie Jackson. Agree to pay part of Reggie's contract. Get a high number one pick and two rotation players with short contracts.

3. Buy out Jon Leuer and Langston Galloway's contracts spread out like the Josh Smith buyout.

Lose as many games as possible while snagging some young players who show promise in the G League over the next two seasons. Win the battle of the ping pong balls and get at least a number 3 pick next season in the draft. Actually I believe watching the Pistons through this rebuild would be far more exciting than watching Reggie Jackson, Blake Griffin and Andre Drummond fight for a playoff spot next season.

Danny Ainge has created a super power in a very short time period in Boston. The Pistons need a young smart GM who has complete decision making ability with no interference from the owner. In SVG's defense, I think he put up with a lot of back seat driving by Tom Gores and his buddies who know nothing about NBA basketball. Plus this silly relationship the owner has had with AD has been very destructive which allowed the player to tell the head coach to shove it whenever he felt like it. This Blake Griffin trade was completing orchestrated by Tom Gores with his ties to LA. The Clippers made a complete fool of the Pistons which will make any future deal making difficult for our team. No GM in their right mind would have traded away Tobias Harris and company for a player with a long history of knee issues among other things plus give away a number one pick. Blake has played physical and hard and his body has suffered too much trauma to expect him to play like an elite player. That should have been factored in if the Piston decision makers had any brains at all. The Pistons will look good until the middle of December and crash and burn like always. So wise up and admit the mistakes that have been made and do what is necessary to build a positive future. The draft is the only way to do it.

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LMAO

Post  WTF on Wed May 16, 2018 11:37 am

Oracle wrote:When it comes to predictions, you're close or right on for our season records.

However, your feelings are WAY off. 

1. You had a feeling that Reggie would be traded before the season... WRONG
2. You had a feeling we would keep our pick... WRONG

You're batting 0% on feelings, but in your defense, they were good feelings that just didn't come true  lol

The revenge of Darko still haunts us!!!

I could have sworn you post prior to the above post we were going to land a top 3 pick.  I thought the God's were in our favor facepalm   Well it looked good for a minute but hey I'm holding out hope on the coaching choice hope it's a good one.
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Breaking news: Two shocking cases of sexual abuse!

Post  Oracle on Wed May 16, 2018 10:13 am

Case 1: Superman abused... sexually!

Yes, everyone is familiar with Aliens regularly abducting humans and abusing them sexually with all manner of probes. I won't mention names, but one of the symptoms of this dreaded alien abuse shows up in posters as a fear of the enter key!

This causes the poster to rattle off huge paragraphs as they struggle to get a grip on their thoughts, and as a result, sometimes they're coherent, and others just plain spacey  lol

But I digress, now we have humans abusing aliens. This would be a better world if Superman had been able to get out of therapy and save the world, but constant abuse by his parents, The Kents, left that poor soul a mess and unable to control his bowels, let alone his powers.

Case 2: Stan Van Gundy sexually abuses the Pistons organization and fans.

I think this statement by Gores covers the entire sordid situation.

"Van Gundy straight up F**ked us all, and I accept full responsibility for any and all swollen membranes!"
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Our fate is sealed

Post  Sparma on Tue May 15, 2018 10:21 pm

Good point about the other teams that are worse off than us in draft prospects, Wise.

Oracle, your reference to "system" is likely where the two of us would most agree concerning the role of coaches. Still, you write: "Here, they bought in" [to the system]. I'd agree, up to a point. SVG wanted the team to bring the ball up faster than Reggie was willing to do so on the regular, and he wanted Reggie back quicker [some improvement there this year]. Also, in partial agreement with Don, I have trouble believing that Drummond consistently complied with the defensive assignment SVG drew up. Still, at least for those first 20 games it looked like there was a nice alignment between team and coach.

And I've figured out who we should bring in as coach [mild attempt at humor ahead, along with something heartfelt]: Vince Lombardi. Have been reading parts of an old book on coaches called Beyond Winning, that devotes a chapter to Lombardi. The author, Walton, points out that Lombardi pulled off the all time turnaround (maybe along with Bill Walsh), coming into years of losing. The remarkable thing is that the roster didn't turn over that much, with 3rd stringer Bart Starr, Heisman perceived flop Paul Hornung, and ineffective Jim Taylor among those already on board. Lombardi did a number of things, foremost among which may have been running simple plays to perfection. One player marveled that in a long training session they dwelled on two plays.

I'm afraid that the moral may be: we need a miracle, we need a Vince Lombardi.

In basketball terms, we may need someone like Mike d'Antoni who really imposes a system on his roster, emphasizing variations on a small number of plays. Of course that didn't work well in NY or LA, and we (like NY and LA) don't have a roster well suited to his system. An updated Phil Jackson (Steve Kerr?) might fit this roster well; with better than average passing out of PF and C and the need to conform our PG to the best interests of the team, I think an updated triangle might work well for us.

But what are the odds? Lombardi does show that the kind of miracle we need can happen. In fact the Pistons may well have better prospects than GB did when Lombardi arrived.

I still like Budenholzer, but evidently both Toronto and Milwaukee have made overtures already.

WTF wrote:
Sparma wrote:Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

These are all playoff teams the Pistons on the other hand are not so the sacrifice of a 1st is a lot worse.  But not to worry my prediction will come true
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Wise you're FIRED!!!

Post  Oracle on Tue May 15, 2018 9:29 pm

When it comes to predictions, you're close or right on for our season records.

However, your feelings are WAY off. 

1. You had a feeling that Reggie would be traded before the season... WRONG
2. You had a feeling we would keep our pick... WRONG

You're batting 0% on feelings, but in your defense, they were good feelings that just didn't come true  lol

The revenge of Darko still haunts us!!!
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Not Doomed but.......

Post  WTF on Tue May 15, 2018 6:48 pm

Sparma wrote:Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

These are all playoff teams the Pistons on the other hand are not so the sacrifice of a 1st is a lot worse.  But not to worry my prediction will come true
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It is very refreshing watching Golden State play basketball after watching the Pistons all season long

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 15, 2018 2:47 pm

Everyone on the same page working together as a unit. Players moving with purpose without the basketball. Everyone setting screens for each other. Players not known for playing defense digging down deep and making steals. Passing the basketball to the right man at the right time. Golden State has the right players and the right coach. Who in today's NBA game does things better than Brad Stevens and Steve Kerr. Players love playing for them. They are smart, cool and calm. They never turn their backs to the floor and rant to the bench players when things are going wrong. That was a tendency of both Frank and SVG. Golden State makes a great contrast to Cleveland's muscle game with Labron James. It is great to have two styles having success in today's NBA. Labron James is perhaps the greatest player of all time because he can play every position and defend every position. But I can't say that I like watching the Cavaliers.

My prediction for the next matchup between Boston and Cleveland is that the NBA Front office will have had a meeting with the officials who will be calling the game. The meeting will be about strategy to help Cleveland win this game by employing to no call system relating to the high screen set by Tristian Thompson so Labron can have an easy path to the basket for a layup. The screen that I have identified along with many other basketball people is illegal. The screener runs full blast on the blind side of Labron's defender and never stops to set a screen. The screener just runs straight into the defender knocking him off balance. This is how Cleveland turned around the series against Indiana in the first round. Indiana had them by the throat and suddenly you see Thompson doing his thing. This is not just a moving screen where the screener comes to a jump stop and then moves his hip into the defender. Thompson set screens that would be illegal blind side blocks in football. No call. No call. No call. It will be interesting to see if Cleveland employs this secret weapon in Boston's arena. If so those fans are educated on playing basketball the right way and might start throwing things on the hardwood.

Where do our Piston players stack up when thinking to the quality of basketball being played in the Western Conference Finals? I can't see where any of our players with the exception of Blake Griffin could earn playing time with either team. AD would be to confused to have any clue what the Warriors were trying to do on either offense or defense. Can the next coach somehow help our players elevate their games so the team can be more competitive in regular season games not to mention playoff situations? No way with our current set of guards. Neither Reggie or Ish could beat out any of the guards on either team playing in the Western Conference finals or for that matter any of the guards who played in the playoffs in either conference. Why would they be on the bench much like Monroe currently is located in Boston? Lack of ability to defend perhaps? With our guards the other reason would be lack of ability to organize an offense or think more than one play ahead. Whoever takes over the new jobs will be trying like hell to remove the players who have a habit of being on losing teams. But how can any GM find a way to trade Reggie Jackson? And how will any new coach adjust to coaching AD who now is hell bent on showing his skill set with the outside jump shot? Houston coaches have done wonders with their young center who is very coachable. AD will be who he wants to be and that doesn't include ever becoming the best defensive center in the NBA which is could be capable of becoming. That is not his goal. His goal is to follow goals set by his agent to compile stats and to showcase more offensive skills. How about working on basketball IQ AD? How about playing the team first game where teammates can count on you to provide full engagement in every game on defense? somehow the desire to WIN is not part of AD's makeup. Everyone in the playoffs are scratching and clawing and fighting like hell on defense. They know that in the end getting stops will mean the difference between winning and losing. Too bad the best Piston player this year (Tolliver) will not be back because BG, AD, RJ, JL, and LG have stolen the Piston's payroll. Which one of those players would any GM have a chance of trading due to the size of their contracts compared with their skill as an NBA player? And the Pistons have no number one pick again. No chance of getting a steal in the first round. My question is who will take the new jobs being offered by Tom Gores knowing the Pistons will not be able to start a rebuild or be competitive with solid NBA teams for many years to come? This current era of Piston history seems to repeat itself. The team starts out playing hard with purpose out of training camp. They seem to click up until the month of December and then start a long slide into the pits of hell until spring comes around. There are games in the middle of winter where fans see the highest paid players slacking off at times during the games usually in the first and third quarters. The desire is just not there where when the tough get going, our players start slacking but still dance around and smile before all of those game they lose. Is there no wonder that very few former Piston fans watch them anymore? Will the remaining fans blame the next coach when opposing players kick our players asses? Just can't be that our players are not engaged, don't really care, or are dumb as a box of rocks meaning they are not coachable in the ways of winning. Time to fire the coach. But I am happy that SVG is finally finished. He sure didn't help when he closed down players only meetings where some of the players that wanted to win and were tired of losing wanted to change the structure of who the team leaders should be. SVG and Tom Gores insisted on Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond remaining as the Piston's team leaders. Just what free agent would want to sign with Detroit with them being the team leaders? Marcus Morris has spread the word about what it was like playing with those two stat orientated guys. SVG helped create the dysfunction and as long as the same players run things the Pistons will have the same results regardless of who the coach might be unless that coach is someone like Kerr or Stevens or maybe a guy like Kidd who doesn't take crap from any player. Kidd is blunt and to the point and does not act like a scared chicken around the protected players that Tom Gores insisted on protecting. I say SVG and Tom Gores share equally in creating team dysfunction by allowing children to become team leaders.

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I Don't Know If The Pistons Approved It But...

Post  deusXango on Tue May 15, 2018 2:07 pm

This was a response I posted on a thread about the possibilities the Pistons landing a top three pick tonight; I received a message that stated I must wait until the Pistons approved it...well, I never!

This article was about the possibilities of the Pistons hitting tonight's lottery and making the team better but, it's ended up with a trade Drummond discussion, which went nowhere. If we're going to talk about being in the lottery, making trades, and the team getting better as a result of that "perfect storm" why not trade back in the lottery (who'll take Jon Leuer with our top 3 pick for 5-7?), draft Trae Young, a needed PG, at a reasonable spot, and begin developing a backcourt of Young and Kennard to compliment the big men we already have. "Promote" Reggie Jackson to third PG, which he'll pitch a bitch about, and wait for his agent to work out an acceptable trade. Saving $27 million on the payroll (Leuer and Jackson), obtaining a PG that really fits the talent we have, and positioned to acquire a starting SF better than Stanley Johnson isn't bad for a team that's missed the playoffs the last 2 years and doesn't have a first round draft pick right now.

Why is it that everyone who's paid to have their "thinking caps" on, from media to management, can't come up with a creative way to trade/dispense with Reggie Jackson and Jon Leuer? I'm looking at who's been let go by the Pistons and have been playing important roles in playoff teams. Is this the power of Drummond, the weakness of Gores, or the curse of Van Gundy?

One thing I'm certain of, if and wherever Drummond, Griffin, and Kennard are traded to, that/those teams will be in the playoffs...two of the three are under 25 years of age and are showing marked potential and development, and the third is a bona fide star in the NBA.
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This and that... and this was a good post. And More!

Post  Oracle on Tue May 15, 2018 6:16 am

Sparma wrote:I'm torn on the Boston-Cleveland series.  My mom was born in Cleveland, and I'm a LeBron fan.  Generally, the Celtics are the team I like least (excepting individuals like Bill Russell, Dennis Johnson, and Bill Walton in his twilight).  But dang, Brad Stevens shows the difference a great coach makes.  And Danny Ainge has done a phenomenal job.  That's a fun, tough, bunch of players, well-suited to slowing down the King.  I'm tempted to agree at long last with Oracle about how crummy that Avery Bradley trade was.  No Griffin without him (maybe not a bad thing), and I hold out hope for the 2nd rounder included.  Still.  Danny Ainge's getting a trade record like Jerry West.   Steer clear of him, Pistons (didn't Murph make that point earlier? YES).  If Boston makes it to the finals sans superstar, first since Detroit in '04, I won't be able to begrudge them that accomplishment.  They don't need to make it to the finals for me to struggle with the fact that Brad Stevens didn't get a single vote for coach of the year! That boggles the mind no matter how I try to figure it.

I go back and forth with Don about how important the coach is, he sometimes gets it, but loves to fall back on blaming the players. It's not that players don't deserve blame, it's that you have to look at the situation, and in most situations you'll find a coach that fails to design a system that works for the players he has, and I don't want to minimize how hard that is, it's hard or everybody would be doing it. If a system is implemented and the players don't buy in, then the players are at fault. Here, they bought in, but the system didn't fit the team, especially after the group it worked for got broken up.

Which brings us to the trade! Bradley was a better player than KCP, so from that perspective, the trade looked decent if you ignore the injury situation, but we were stuck, we had to do something. The big flaw in the plan was giving up Morris who was the only enforcer we had. Losing both KCP and Morris was the problem I had with the trade because Boston couldn't move a gimpy Bradley to anyone, and they tried hard. We should have held out as long as possible to keep Morris, but SVG, as usual just jumps as soon as possible. We lost a lot losing both in the same season, and Bradley was never going to replace all of that production.

We've got one more enormous chance of pulling out of the moor of mediocrity, at the draft lottery tomorrow.  By enormous, I mean that we have a slight chance to have something great happen.  We've got Wise's prediction on our side! I hope Wise is right!

If Cleveland stays where they are, I'm guessing they'd go for a Tristen Thompson & #8 for Andre Drummond trade.  Maybe something like that would be worth doing, maybe not.  (P.S.  I knew that TT's salary was lower than AD's, but thought they were fairly close.  In fact, there's about a 6 mil gap this coming year, so Cleveland would need to add a significant contract.)

btw, AD's got an 8% trade kicker.   And if you're off to a rough start this Monday, don't review the details of Blake's contract.  Can't quite tell what's going on with his 15% trade kicker, listed as activated in the trade to Detroit.  Does that mean he'd get another 15% kicker if traded again.   So, we may not be "stuck" with him in that we just couldn't trade him, but probably best to accept that this is going to be a long term arrangement, for better or worse.

Can we make a big trade now?   What the heck is all this delaying about?   Seems to have big drawbacks, competitively.  I respected Gores talking things through with SVG, but that dragged on too long.  The delaying is killing me, it's bad business, IMO.

Heard Bower may stay on as transitional figure beyond his present contract.  If so, not sure how that would work.  He'd be a consultant, along with Brent Berry?  Tellum's staying, but won't be Prez?  So Tellum and Bower would be staying, but we'd need to hire a Prez, GM, and coach!?  Sounds messy, and difficult to do, let alone do well, in short order.

Still, everything could turn tomorrow.  I'm afraid this slight chance is nevertheless our best chance to truly get back on track (unless Brad Stevens has a dear desire to return to the Midwest, and is able to bring Danny Ainge with him).
BTW, I feel the same way about Stanley as I did about KCP, I want him to get his full rookie development here, he deserves the chance to show us more next year. I'm not saying that if a great trade comes along that we shouldn't move him, but I wouldn't go looking to move him, and if his value isn't too high after his rookie season, I'd resign him if conditions warranted it.

Drummond: I'm of two minds about Drummond shooting 3's. His stroke looks good and he's making some, and I do believe that more success on the offensive end would energize him on the defensive end as well, if for no other reason than it's a HUGE confidence builder.

The additional advantage is that it would space the floor a lot better for us, the down side is that his rebounding would likely suffer a LOT!

The bottom line to me is what does the team need, and that won't be determined until we get our new coach, so it's a bit early to judge what he's doing other than to say that at least he's focused on improving!
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Some teams are worse off than us in the draft

Post  Sparma on Mon May 14, 2018 10:28 pm

Tormenting myself, I looked at Tankathon to see which teams are worse off than us in draft prospects for this year. In connection with the firing of Casey, I'd heard that Toronto has no picks, so that's one. Miami has no picks either, so that makes two. Houston just has pick #46, and New Orleans has pick #52, so that's teams 3 and 4. Finally, there's OKC that has picks 53 & 57. I'd probably rather have our pick #42, so I'll put OKC as #5, but some might disagree.

And SVG freely diminished our draft holdings for the future.

What mismanagement.

But we've still got a one in 40 chance to turn our draft fortunes around! Maybe a few more teams slip behind us when that lottery ticket is included in the comparison. We'll have a clearer picture tomorrow.
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With no coach in place what is Andre Drummond working on now?

Post  cool breeze on Mon May 14, 2018 2:09 pm

Breaking news instead of using some of his money to hire a big man coach to teach him how to play defense, team leader Andre Drummond is instead working on his outside game. Everyone knows the Pistons don't need a rim or paint protector. Yes the Pistons need even more offense out of our franchise center. He is working on his outside jump shot as if we don't already have too much of that from other Piston players.

I see it now. The Pistons are in the thick of it to secure the 8th seed next spring. They are playing Miami who have the same record as our Pistons. Miami has the ball with 24 seconds left and the game is tied. Wade shoots with 7 seconds on the clock. AD forgets to block out Whiteside. The ball comes off the rim and Whiteside gets the tip in and the Heat take a 2 point lead. Detroit calls a timeout and inbounds the ball on the sideline. Smith sets a pick for AD who throws up a 3 pointer from the wing. Oh dam't it all, AD somehow misses everything. Now that really hurts especially because the owner decided to trade Kennard for Nelson aka Butter Ball who was sitting the bench for the Clippers before the trade deadline but the Clippers wouldn't budge so Mr. Gores had to throw in the Pistons number one pick. Mr. Gores talked to the press and was very upbeat because the team really had responded to his wise choice of hiring the first female head coach in NBA history. However, she quit after the game saying she was frustrated because center Andre Drummond was not fully "engaged" for that last game against the Heat. A new coaching search is underway but the Piston's front office are confident that the ping balls will bounce their way because they still could retain their 1st round pick rights if they secure the first or second overall pick. Everyone is really excited about next season. The home attendance figures were down from the year when they traded for Blake Griffin but who cares? The tax payers love paying for that new arena even though few people in Detroit follow the Pistons anymore.

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This and that

Post  Sparma on Mon May 14, 2018 9:54 am

I'm torn on the Boston-Cleveland series.  My mom was born in Cleveland, and I'm a LeBron fan.  Generally, the Celtics are the team I like least (excepting individuals like Bill Russell, Dennis Johnson, and Bill Walton in his twilight).  But dang, Brad Stevens shows the difference a great coach makes.  And Danny Ainge has done a phenomenal job.  That's a fun, tough, bunch of players, well-suited to slowing down the King.  I'm tempted to agree at long last with Oracle about how crummy that Avery Bradley trade was.  No Griffin without him (maybe not a bad thing), and I hold out hope for the 2nd rounder included.  Still.  Danny Ainge's getting a trade record like Jerry West.   Steer clear of him, Pistons (didn't Murph make that point earlier?).  If Boston makes it to the finals sans superstar, first since Detroit in '04, I won't be able to begrudge them that accomplishment.  

We've got one more enormous chance of pulling out of the moor of mediocrity, at the draft lottery tomorrow.  By enormous, I mean that we have a slight chance to have something great happen.  We've got Wise's prediction on our side!

If Cleveland stays where they are, I'm guessing they'd go for a Tristen Thompson & #8 for Andre Drummond trade.  Maybe something like that would be worth doing, maybe not.  (P.S. I knew that TT's salary was lower than AD's, but thought they were fairly close. In fact, there's about a 6 mil gap this coming year, so Cleveland would need to add a significant contract.)

btw, AD's got an 8% trade kicker. And if you're off to a rough start this Monday, don't review the details of Blake's contract. Can't quite tell what's going on with his 15% trade kicker, listed as activated in the trade to Detroit. Does that mean he'd get another 15% kicker if traded again. So, we may not be "stuck" with him in that we just couldn't trade him, but probably best to accept that this is going to be a long term arrangement, for better or worse.

Can we make a big trade now?   What the heck is all this delaying about?   Seems to have big drawbacks, competitively.  I respected Gores talking things through with SVG, but that dragged on too long.  

Heard Bower may stay on as transitional figure beyond his present contract.  If so, not sure how that would work.  He'd be a consultant, along with Brent Berry?  Tellum's staying, but won't be Prez?  So Tellum and Bower would be staying, but we'd need to hire a Prez, GM, and coach!?  Sounds messy, and difficult to do, let alone do well, in short order.

Still, everything could turn tomorrow.  I'm afraid this slight chance is nevertheless our best chance to truly get back on track (unless Brad Stevens has a dear desire to return to the Midwest, and is able to bring Danny Ainge with him).
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The Three Stooges

Post  BallinD on Sun May 13, 2018 11:02 pm

Gores, Local Media, SVG

The unholy trinity of sloth, stupidity and sycophancy. The reporting in this town is feeble and negligent. So, apparently the good ship Pistons is listing and has taken on water, but no one can do anything about it or tell anyone else that fact or identify real issues and solutions. So be it. With summer league on the horizon, coaches being snatched up and development of our young players more important than ever, we get crickets.

deusXango wrote:Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, I'm so tired of hearing about "the Great Van Gundy" that I don't know what to do. He's been relieved of his head scratching front office decision making duties and trying to get a square peg to fit in a round hole practices from the bench. I don't see how SVG could've straightened out in one more year what he took 4 years to build. The narrative in the minds of many is he was somehow cheated. No one but the fans have been cheated! The greatness I keep reading about wasn't witnessed in Detroit. "He left the franchise in better shape than he found it." No sh!t. I dare say most of the posters on this site could've done the same if allowed to throw away 1st round draft picks and go over the CAP, just to inspire hope of being an 8th seed playoff team...year after year!

I know SVG coached Dwight Howard, and that turned out ugly, but did he coach Shaquille O'Neal also? What are those players opinion of SVG as a coach? It's apparent that ownership doesn't "care" for Van Gundy, and 2nd tier players seem to love him but, how is he viewed by elite level big men who were at the peak of their powers when he coached them; would positive hope be relayed to Drummond and Griffin?

It's clear that as long as SVG was affiliated with the Pistons, Reggie Jackson would be looked to, to be the straw that stirred the drink (heaven forbid RJ should come up lame and unable to perform). Half of Van Gundy's failure to drive his team into the 8th seed, as a playoff team, have been blamed on Reggie Jackson's inability to perform. SVG hasn't signed FA players as much as he signed albatross's to hamstring this franchise. We got them and before their contracts are up, they have no value. We can't trade one of them for comparable value...damn shame.

Donavan Mitchell wouldn't have been given the same chance playing under SVG that he did playing for Quin Snyder, if for no other reason Van Gundy didn't take his opportunity to draft him; the day he drafted Luke Kennard, he downplayed his defensive abilities, and throughout the season he coached him as a defensive liability who was hurting the team when on the floor, which was far from the truth. He never made Henry Ellenson better, but did he in fact make him worse, like he did Stanley Johnson? Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, let's move on and try to forget he was here.
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Funny thing while social media with Shaq and Barkley among others saying hire Isiah Thomas, no local Detroit sports reporters in contact with Tom Gores mentions his name

Post  cool breeze on Sun May 13, 2018 2:43 pm

Piston posters provide the voice for thousands of current and former loyal Piston fans. Many say they have had enough experimenting by this owner. Meanwhile reporters from the two Detroit newspapers keep throwing out names of many other potential hires for head coach and President of operations. They seem to support hiring the first female head coach. Gender equality is important. The Van Gundy experiment will be forgotten soon so maybe in 10 years the gender equality experiment first tried by the Pistons will be lost in history.

Why is it that none of our old heroes can make Tom Gores final cut? Has he already asked them and they have refused because they believe the roster is so flawed and the financial situation with bad player contracts makes change almost impossible? Who wants to jump off a cliff for a few bucks when you are already rich? Why damage your reputation a Detroit sports hero when you believe there is no way you can win with the players who have the biggest contracts on this Piston team? This should be a no brainer for Tom Gores that is that if he hasn't already asked some of the former Bad Boys to take control of operations. If Zeke had SVG's old job do any of you doubt that there would not be an immediate lightning bolt of relief among those who care about the Detroit Pistons? Ticket sales would explode. Merchandise sales would explode. Everything about the Pistons would feel better.

I have doubts that Billups could create the same excitement especially if he were hired as President or GM for the Pistons. He has zero experience. Why wouldn't Billups try coaching first? You never seem to hear Chauncey's name mentioned within the context of coaching. I wish he would try it out as an assistant coach at first. He needs to prove himself before becoming a final decision maker relating to roster decisions. Maybe I don't know his skill set in the area of management. Zeke made his mistakes and I am sure he has learned from this experience. He was a really good coach at one time. Both Zeke and Mr. Big Shot have it made with their television gig so maybe neither want to fall on the sword taking a job in any capacity with the Piston team knowing how screwed up things are at this current point in time. But I wish they were interested and have no respect for this owner if he hasn't begged them to take a job with the Pistons now. This lack of interest relating to Isiah Thomas by the local Detroit media is very upsetting. Maybe they know something we don't know. But there is no doubt that there is a sadness in the air relating to the Pistons. There are two good NBA coaches available who are mentioned as candidates for the head coaching job. The problem is that few fans have any confidence in the current players who will be coming back and doubt that those coaches can get much more out of them then SVG managed to get. Will AD be more "engaged". Can the $36 Million Dollar A Year Man play a complete season? Will Reggie Jackson shut out the 2 guards and small forwards again and play his own personal offense while faking it on defense? If you are a coach and have to worry about those things then for sure you will be out of a job soon if you are the coach. I think fans would support the Pistons if Zeke ran things because we would know that changes would be coming soon. Better players would be wearing the Piston uniform in coming seasons. Fans know that. Otherwise, few have any trust in this owner and more fans will drop off until the owner will try out his experiments in another city and get the residents there to pay for another new arena.

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My Head Hurts Ugggh!!!

Post  WTF on Sun May 13, 2018 11:10 am

SVG was over hyped just like most things are when it comes to this team and yes players included.  While I was happy to see Joe go I was not at all happy with the arrival of SVG and I just as excited about his departure as I was with Joe's departure.

It's going to be real hard to be sold on anyone Gore bring in that's not name Zeke or Chauncey or have championship credentials already.  No more hyping and this tiresome wait and see ride we've been on since Flip was wrongly fired.  Zeke and Chauncey are about the only two that I kind blindly attach faith and hope on at this point.  I want to see people that are attached to better parts of this franchise's history and not just some latest trending hopeful that hasn't accomplished much.  Especially one that's been recently fired.   facepalm

We don't need people that are going to come in cuddling million dollars players and pleading with them tp perform at the level of their paychecks.  I'm not cutting Blake any slack he gets the same treatment I've been giving AD since he signed his deal.   At 35 million a season he need to be carrying us to finals like Bron carry the Cavs,  I'm tired of AD's inconsistency and I dam sure don't want to see less than inconsistent BS out of BG either.  I think Zeke with the right assistants can motivate this group.   I would love to see Zeke coaching and hiring Ewing, Sheed, Hill and Rip as his assistants.
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A Little Love (and I do mean little) For Stan Van Gundy

Post  deusXango on Sat May 12, 2018 10:23 pm

Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, I'm so tired of hearing about "the Great Van Gundy" that I don't know what to do. He's been relieved of his head scratching front office decision making duties and trying to get a square peg to fit in a round hole practices from the bench. I don't see how SVG could've straightened out in one more year what he took 4 years to build. The narrative in the minds of many is he was somehow cheated. No one but the fans have been cheated! The greatness I keep reading about wasn't witnessed in Detroit. "He left the franchise in better shape than he found it." No sh!t. I dare say most of the posters on this site could've done the same if allowed to throw away 1st round draft picks and go over the CAP, just to inspire hope of being an 8th seed playoff team...year after year!

I know SVG coached Dwight Howard, and that turned out ugly, but did he coach Shaquille O'Neal also? What are those players opinion of SVG as a coach? It's apparent that ownership doesn't "care" for Van Gundy, and 2nd tier players seem to love him but, how is he viewed by elite level big men who were at the peak of their powers when he coached them; would positive hope be relayed to Drummond and Griffin?

It's clear that as long as SVG was affiliated with the Pistons, Reggie Jackson would be looked to, to be the straw that stirred the drink (heaven forbid RJ should come up lame and unable to perform). Half of Van Gundy's failure to drive his team into the 8th seed, as a playoff team, have been blamed on Reggie Jackson's inability to perform. SVG hasn't signed FA players as much as he signed albatross's to hamstring this franchise. We got them and before their contracts are up, they have no value. We can't trade one of them for comparable value...damn shame.

Donavan Mitchell wouldn't have been given the same chance playing under SVG that he did playing for Quin Snyder, if for no other reason Van Gundy didn't take his opportunity to draft him; the day he drafted Luke Kennard, he downplayed his defensive abilities, and throughout the season he coached him as a defensive liability who was hurting the team when on the floor, which was far from the truth. He never made Henry Ellenson better, but did he in fact make him worse, like he did Stanley Johnson? Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, let's move on and try to forget he was here.
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I Remember

Post  BallinD on Fri May 11, 2018 9:59 pm

WTF wrote:No we don't want the 1st female NBA head coach, and no don't want anything not related to the great history of this franchise.  I don't like Vince Ellis he's weak as a writer/report/talking head.    This goes for all the local media that's being critical of SVG after the fact when they should have been critical from the start.

Does anybody else remember when Gores bought the team the he made a point of talking up and meeting Zeke and there was even some talk he might buy into the team a bit or get a spot in the hierarchy.  Well now is the time to put up or shut up.  Get some Piston DNA in here.  How hard can it be t figure out what it means to be Going to Work.  

I know Bad Boys is a fading memory and will never return to the NBA, but the combatative and competitive spirit, never-say-die attitude is transferable to today's NBA.  Look no further than Draymond Green and Rondo.  SJ may have a bit of it, and who knows if he still has enough to be coached up, though I get that this is now a "shooter's league."

With Hollywood Griffin, Weggie the broken tool, and Dre the One-trick-pony, how far that will take us is up in the air, but I think we have the talent and grit to at least be pliable clay in the hands of a real coach who can coach us up to at least be competitive, a la Casey.

Ponder this?  How far could Brad Stevens take this team?  How far would SVG have taken Boston.  If he folds with the loss of Weggie, what would he do losing Hayward, Smart and Kyrie!  Come on Gores, wake up from your long sleep.  Wakey-Wakey!?
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The Chicken and The Egg

Post  deusXango on Fri May 11, 2018 8:43 pm

The Pistons wouldn't be a fit for Dwane Casey, but Becky Hammon, David Blatt, Mike Budenholzer or Jerry Stackhouse would be perfect? None of the recent mentioned (out of order) coaching candidates have the recent coaching record, SVG included, that Dwane Casey has, but he should be the last coach to be considered. Oh boy! Casey has never had the "beef" like Drummond and Griffin to anchor his front line in Toronto. He may not want RJ as one of his perimeter players but, Kennard and Bullock may surprise us all under Casey's coaching. The major objection against Casey is we don't have a President/GM in place and once we do get one on board, they may want to hire their own coach; what makes the most sense to acquire first, a coach or President/GM?
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NO NO NO

Post  WTF on Fri May 11, 2018 1:53 am

No we don't want the 1st female NBA head coach, and no don't want anything not related to the great history of this franchise.  I don't like Vince Ellis he's weak as a writer/report/talking head.    This goes for all the local media that's being critical of SVG after the fact when they should have been critical from the start.
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Just checking in...

Post  Oracle on Thu May 10, 2018 8:57 pm

I LOVE everybody's take on this, and I can't say that anybody is wrong!

I think the general consensus is that we need some Pistons DNA up in this mother, and quick! I think another thing I see is that we want somebody who isn't afraid to trade a non-performer and shake the roster up. IMO, a coach is too close to the problem to be objective on what to do personnel wise, the GM generally has a better view of the situation.

Sucks that there are no games until Sunday... oh well, I think I see some paint peeling  banana
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President/GM

Post  deusXango on Thu May 10, 2018 12:10 pm

"Billups has a very calm, buttoned down, professional demeanor that would serve him well in the front office. Let me put it this way, if he can handle Larry Brown screaming at him during playoff games, he can handle the stresses of being GM.

Zeke, OTOH, tends to fly off the handle and make crazy trades when stressed. At least he did for the Knicks. However, Zeke is a excellent judge of college talent and drafts well. Zeke's knowledge, along with Billups' calm demeanor would be a great combination for the Pistons."
-Murph

There's only been two Pistons championship players that played their whole careers in Detroit; Joe Dumars and Isiah Thomas. It may not seem like much but, when it comes to Detroit Pistons DNA through and through, my money is on the Piston that knows only Detroit, it's fans, and the tough minded Pistons pride. Isiah is the greatest Piston that ever wore the red, white, and blue but, as mentioned, he's known to go off script; we don't need a president like that, GM perhaps, but not president. Although Chauncey didn't start here and is well traveled, Detroit is where he grew as a champion and come to know the Detroit love. Chauncey Billups is my choice for President of Operations because of his proven leadership abilities, albeit not in executive management, but a true leader none the less. I think the balance of Billups and Thomas could turn this cockamamie around much quicker and easier than most imagine. Billups can keep Gores "cool" and give him all the reassurances that the team is really in good hands while Thomas acquires the complimentary players that fit into a championship contending team.

The coach and coaching staff is yet to be determined but, it's nowhere near as important as getting our leadership in place. We need leadership that's not intimidated by players egos and we damn sure don't need leaders that "play favorites" when it comes to determining who's going to be on the team or not. Tough minded leadership that know what it takes to win it all.
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Mr. Gores....Take a Chance

Post  Murph on Thu May 10, 2018 8:01 am

WTF wrote:
IMO if we're subjected to another 5 seasons of similar BS then let take it old school and hire every Pistons Great we can.  At least that'll be entertainment in itself watching these greats on the sideline and running ****.  Bet the Palace sellout then, bet the team has an identity then,  here's the slogan for them "Bad Boys Goin To Work To Be Champions".   tb

Wise...I agree. If Gores wants to fill up LCA every night, he should hire Zeke, Laimbeer and Mahorn to coach, along with Billups as GM.

On Billups, my thinking is this: We are pretty locked into the roster due to the bad salaries, so there is not much to do anyway for the next couple of years. So Billups would get a year or two of on-the-job-training before he had to make any major decisions.

Also, Billups has a very calm, buttoned down, professional demeanor that would serve him well in the front office. Let me put it this way, if he can handle Larry Brown screaming at him during playoff games, he can handle the stresses of being GM.

Zeke, OTOH, tends to fly off the handle and make crazy trades when stressed. At least he did for the Knicks. However, Zeke is a excellent judge of college talent and drafts well. Zeke's knowledge, along with Billups' calm demeanor would be a great combination for the Pistons.

Please Mr. Gores...go out on a limb. You have nothing to lose, and you might just build a contender, while you fill up your arena. eat
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It's All a Big Gamble

Post  WTF on Wed May 09, 2018 7:31 pm

Oracle wrote:This coming year we don't need or want any green GM, coach or president... just say NO to any rookies!

That leaves Zeke, Laimbeer and Mahorn, IMO.

Zeke is, again, IMO, the obvious candidate for GM. Zeke's eye for talent is damn near unmatched, only exceeded by the great Jerry West.

While Laims & Mahorn have experience, it's not at the NBA level, so if a better candidate is available, I'll just take Zeke and call it a day, letting him pick the next coach.

A rookie coach is not a good idea for a veteran team like this one, we need a coach that can immediately get the respect and attention of these players.

Well, that's my 2 cents...

I kind of feel that way but this thing is such a crap shot these days.  I'm leaning towards the experience factor but I'm okay with the candidate being green and fresh as long as they have ties to this organization with great success.   So I'm open to guys like CB, not coaching but in a GM role, theirs no doubt Zeke tops the list of all former Pistons players.  

I wouldn't object to Zeke as President, CB as GM and Laimbeer as Coach.   I'm also supportive of support roles on the coaching staff for guys like Ben and Sheed.   

Other than that I would love to give these 3 guys a shot also at coaching (Ewing, a return of Cheeks, or Woodson LB former assistant)  What I honestly don't want to see is some number crunching analytical ass that never played the game because they're less relative to players or the game itself.  No denying the importance of actually being there as a player.  Most of the good coaches actually played the game before coaching while there been a handful that never played they seem rare when it comes to NBA success as a coach.

Just a thought but I do in a way think CB has a slight advantage as far as being a coach because of the number good coaches he's played for.  IMO he's seen it all as far as playing for good coaches goes.   

In the end I just hope the hiring has in depth meaning and not just something pulled out of Arn's and Gore asses and forced down the throats of players and fans.  The media needs to be very mindful of keeping a eye on this and not be just Homers in reporting on this process or the new hire.
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