Pistons Talk
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

FORUM

+5
deusXango
Murph
Sparma
lemonpen
Phil-Good
9 posters

Page 20 of 40 Previous  1 ... 11 ... 19, 20, 21 ... 30 ... 40  Next

Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Trade Proposal

Post  Murph Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:50 am

Jon Leuer, Ish Smith and Stanley Johnson for George Hill.

We get rid of the contract of the completely useless Leuer in return for a durable starting NBA PG, who doesn't dominate the ball and can play D.

Cleveland gets cap relief with Smith's expiring contract, and they get younger.  Of course this is predicated on Lebron leaving the Cavs for greener pastures.  If Lebron stays, the trade makes no sense for them.


I'm watching that Jalen Brunson - Jevon Carter match-up tonight in the Villanova/West Virginia game.

Murph

Posts : 2437
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 63
Location : Wilton, CT

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:29 am

Murph wrote:Stanley Johnson sucks.  He's a bust.  I'd include him in any trade to get another veteran PG.

Johnson should be graduating from college this summer. He was smart not to pass up the money but was not anywhere close to being the best player on his college team. Stanley would have been much better today if he had stayed in college one more season. SJ will figure out how to make his shots at a much higher rate and I think it will be next season. He has a low contract compared to Andre Drummond too. Have to disagree that Johnson should be given away in a trade unless the Pistons can get a top tier point guard who is not old. If that was the case, I am OK with your idea. However, it is clear to me that the player who can be used as trade bate that could land the Pistons draft picks and a solid player is Andre Drummond. That is the player Piston management must move before the draft or suffer though another miserable season. Maybe I over rate Drummond's value though. Perhaps it would be necessary to throw in Johnson if the Pistons trade Drummond.

I haven't watched the Piston's game yet. Who would watch the Pistons when the Sweet 16 games are on? Those of you who watched DP really are true blue Piston fans. This team doesn't deserve such loyalty. The Pistons need new leadership in coaching, front office and better players. Bring back the glory Mr. Gores.

cool breeze

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty My pick for low profile draft pick in June who will be an outstanding NBA player

Post  cool breeze Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:14 am

KALIB MARTIN - Nevada
This guy is fantastic. He played tonights game with a sore foot but everyone could see how fast his feet can be even with a bad foot. I have been watching this kid and his twin brother now for a long time. Each year he gets better. He is 6 foot 7 inches tall and exceptionally quick and deceptive. He can create his own shot, drive the ball well and his bread and butter is his ability to knock down big 3 point shots that are contested. Nobody on the East Coast knows about Martin. He gets very little publicity but I see that on NBA DRAFT NET is is listed as the last first round pick. This years draft will be difficult for GMs who are picking after the top 3 spots. Some of the players listed in the 2nd round might be better than those listed at least by NBA DRAFT NET. What I really like about Martin is his motor. He is never lazy on the defensive end. Nevada only played 6 players for most of the minutes and they play man to man D. Martin is a no brainer but will GMs know that? So many high school designated 5 star athletes who play in the McDonalds All Star game are not that good. There is too much propaganda involved to establish reputations for players in AAU. I sure have been disappointed with some of those 5 star athletes who come in for one year of college without knowing the fundamentals. Great to see some of the small name colleges kick asses and take names when it counts in the NCAA tournament.

Whoever is in charge of the Pistons needs to do their homework and select a keeper in the 2nd round of this coming draft. This is all we can hope for when it comes to the draft now that we have no number one pick.

cool breeze

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Fun while it lasted

Post  Sparma Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:33 pm

Great charge at the end of the 4th quarter, with Kennard leading the comeback. Best I've seen him play.

Ugly in OT, again. Kelser with Kennard guarding Harden: "Luke needs to back away a little bit, just a little bit." Reach in foul in 3 point territory. Three made FTs. Game over.
Sparma
Sparma

Posts : 2553
Join date : 2011-12-17

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty GO BLUE!!!!!!

Post  WTF Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:02 pm

Man I love My Michigan Team!!!!!!
WTF
WTF

Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty SJ

Post  Murph Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:33 pm

Stanley Johnson sucks. He's a bust. I'd include him in any trade to get another veteran PG.

Murph

Posts : 2437
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 63
Location : Wilton, CT

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty "The Big Three" will never win a game of marbles - So much propaganda and nonsense

Post  cool breeze Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:37 pm

If Andre Drummond continues to play like a Jr. High center on defense and gets paid the amount of money he is making while the head coach ignores the mental errors committed by the Big Three, why should the owner try to make it all work? You have to have blinders on to have any hope. Blake Griffin is stuck in the mud playing with mentally challenged teammates who give questionable effort. How many defensive plays did AD take off in the Suns in the first half? I would guess it was around 21. That would be fair when recalling all of those situations in the paint where AD failed to even get one arm up about his shoulder or fake an attempt to contest a shot in the paint. He shuffles away from the offensive player with the ball and reaches usually one second too late to even commit a foul. I will say it again. No team will win enough games to get above the 7th seed if AD plays the current role the coach has created for him. SVG doesn't care if AD is not a defensive threat in the paint. He encourages AD to shoot those hook shots. More plays instead of less plays have been designed for AD in the low post. WHY? Because AD beats to his own drum. He doesn't beat to the drum of his team. He wants the ball. He wants the stats. To make that kind of player a key guy is insane. But the owner can trade AD and get something really good in return. It is equally insane that the owner refuses to do it. I really believe that SVG wanted to trade AD last summer or before the trade deadline last season. No coach in his right mind wants to coach AD. The coaching staff at UCONN could tell Piston fans a lot about AD's ability to learn from advise of coaches. AD listens to his agent. Blake Griffin is showing a lot of courage but knows what it is like to play with a real center who was willing to provide the roll the Clipper team needed most. AD will never do that. His mind is geared to scoring. He doesn't get excited about defending the paint. Trade AD before next fall and give the Piston fans something new to think about. Something happens to AD after the Christmas break. He quits even trying to defend the paint until the 4th quarter but still cannot concentrate long enough to remember to box out someone crashing the boards.

Now that I have finished my rant relating to our All Star center, do I need to mention Reggie Jackson who somehow is considered part of the Big 3. Reggie Jackson is the worst starting point guard in the entire NBA with everything considered. He is by far the worst defender of all starting point guards and is most likely worse on defense than any rotation point guard. Is Reggie a good floor general? Nobody can say that and be truthful. Reggie Jackson was a guy who could drive to the hoop. He is not longer that athletic. His body will not allow him to be that kind of reckless player on offense. Yet he still is a dribbler and ball dominator. The Pistons latest trade has handcuffed management from making any meaningful business decisions. Therefore the owner must spin this Big 3 thing. Everything continues on the same course of smoke and mirrors while attempting to get fans to buy tickets.

Next season Johnson will need to finally figure out how to make his jump shot more effective. Notice the positive about Stanley. He has figured out how to create his own shot and when to shoot and not to shoot. I think if he gets a new coach, Johnson will be a changed man next season. As the announcers from Phoenix were saying, Johnson has a body and quickness similar to Labron James. He is an effective defender too. Johnson must emerge from the depths of hell relating to making jump shots and become a leader. He will need to team up with Blake Griffin to make the Pistons a smarter more effective team against good competition.

Reggie Bullock has surprised a lot of fans with his outside shooting. Next season he must have better mental stability on the court and be a more consistent defender and a better passer. Reggie is quick to shoot it and with a new coach will give the ball up more and then get it back after moving without the ball.

If the Pistons cannot land a good point guard through the draft or make a trade then it is time to use Kennard at point guard. Overtime is watch him bring the ball up the court it is clear to me that he sees the floor well and can determine what the defense is attempting to do by the time he passes half court. Kennard was a quarterback in high school. He is a high basketball IQ player who can defend, drive the basketball and finish, and is a threat from beyond the 3 point line. But Luke's best skill might be his passing ability and his quick recognition skill set. Why SVG has not used Kennard at the point shows me a lot about the lack of perception this coach has. Luke can defend better than any of our point guards. He can pass the ball better than any of our point guards. He shoots the ball better than any of our point guards and he is smarter than any of our point guards. With all the meaningless games left this season, it is a crime that SVG won't use Kennard at the point. I know I sound crazy but my gut feeling is that Kennard would shine playing the point guard position. Does he need work on ball handling skills? Maybe he does but there is so much to like about Luke's mind and his work ethic that I think if the coach said that he is going to play point guard next season, Luke would be ready and effective. But of course that won't happen The owner will keep SVG for one more season because of his contract. We will see Jackson and Smith. I would even feel better if Buycks were going to be playing next season. the combination of Jackson and Smith is a killer. Neither can defend NBA level players. Both are ball dominate point guards. I am saying this while really appreciating the amazing effort Ish Smith has made this season. He is not the reason why the Pistons suck.

cool breeze

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty The sun rises

Post  Sparma Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:03 pm

Very good game v Phoenix, with Blake terrific.

Kelser pointed out something interesting about Reggie: the arc on his shot from distance seemed much higher than in the past. Maybe a good adjustment, if he can stick with it.

Celebrate the dawning of a new day?! Some on the Pistons seem to think so.
Sparma
Sparma

Posts : 2553
Join date : 2011-12-17

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Welcome Back Reggie

Post  Murph Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:12 am

Yes, I'm happy that Reggie is finally back.  At least we now finally have two NBA PGs on the roster.  And what a difference that actually makes.

But let's not get lulled into a false sense of security, when the team goes something like 8-5 over their last 13 games with Reggie back in the line-up.  Gores  cannot sit pat in the off season with SVG as his coach, and think, "Well if Reggie had never gotten hurt, who knows how good we could have been?"

Chauncey Billups would be a welcome addition as GM.  But Gores absolutely must fire SVG.  My guess is that Gores is reluctant to fire Van Gundy because Gores was the one who acquired Blake Griffin (on Tellum's advice), against Van Gundy's wishes.  And now Gores is guilty that the team went south, so he wants to give SVG one more year to prove himself.  But this goes beyond just the Griffin trade.  SVG was stinking it up long before Griffin got here.  Gores needs to swallow his guilt and move on.

So hire Billups as GM.  Hire a damn coach (Jason Kidd?).  And acquire another NBA PG.  We need a durable, starting NBA PG.  Put together a package of players and acquire a starting veteran PG with another bad contract like George Hill.  I mean we are basically locking into most of these bad contracts for another 2-4 years, so what's one more bad contract at this point?

I doubt we can move Reggie, but I think Reggie would make a very good back-up PG for 20 minutes a game.  Make Buycks or Smith the 3rd string PG.  And draft Brunson as our PG of the future in the 2nd round, if he's still available.  He's having an outstanding NCAA Tournament.

We still can't win a Championship with the above changes.  But at least we could win close to 50 games a season, get as high as a 3rd or 4th seed, and become slightly relevant for the next 4 years, until all the bad contracts finally expire.

Murph

Posts : 2437
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 63
Location : Wilton, CT

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty 50 wins? Not even if the table is ran!

Post  deusXango Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:33 am

Who is the LEADER of this team going to be going forward? Blake Griffin? Andre Drummond? Reggie Jackson? Alfred E. Newman? He's got to be one helluva leader with the orchestrated, unnecessary, state of hopelessness Stupid-Ass Van Gundy has created. Long after he's gone, Griffin, Drummond, Jackson, and the ghost of Josh Smith will suck the spirit out of Pistons fans. This is the legacy Van Gundy will be leaving behind. Thanks Mr. Gores.
deusXango
deusXango

Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Could He Save Us?

Post  BallinD Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:19 pm

Chchchchchauncey  BBBBBillups for GM or something??

PppppPlAYOFFS Boys n Girls Weggie is Back!

Choose Baby; Weggie or Chauncey

They say where there is smoke, there is fire, and what with Weggie Starting, we have 13 more games and then we shall see what we shall see at the end of the season?  Is Gores really gonna address SVG and avoid the snooze button this time on the alarm and gonna make a basketball personnell decision we can live with?

FORUM - Page 20 Servei10

Or, should we bank on Weggie?  I can't believe SVG think's it's Groundhog's Day (Stupid Van Gundy) and is gonna reprise the debacle of last year and no GLeague either, and no letting him come off the bench.  One game of 4-on-4 and SVG shoves him back in the starting lineup!?!?
FORUM - Page 20 Servei11
BallinD
BallinD

Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Self-sabotaging Stan?

Post  Sparma Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:08 pm

Thanks for a fun exchange, guys, as the games diminish into irrelevance.

You really demonstrated why it's not so simple as Stan not getting buy in, BallinD. In rethinking, I think I'm left both in agreement and disagreement with you. Not sure.

I maintain that in some general, abstract, way Stan wants individuals to sacrifice what's best for them (at least their stats) for the well-being of the team. Maybe his prodding of SJ to being a hustling defensive player, rather than the go to guy he grew up being, is a case in point. Still, I can see more clearly that he's self-sabotaging [I already was convinced he needs to go.]

On defense, I'm sure he wants the team to buy into a team first mentality. For instance, he wants Reggie J to get back on D, rather than just saving his limited supply of energy for O. Still, there may be something about his mindset that gets in the way. We all seem to agree that he's more driven by a fear of failure than a hope of succeeding. This is wildly speculative (and hence could be quite wrong): what if it was Bradley who spearheaded the swarming, backing, D that we saw the first 20 games, but Stan became uncomfortable with the mistakes that come with an aggressive, risk taking, D? Could he have simplified the instructions, cutting back on mistakes, but also cutting into the early high self motivated players?

On O, your case that Stan's a big problem seems pretty straightforward, BallinD. Good memory on the thing about such an O being less sustainable [manifesting fear of failure]. I'm not sure what all caused the collapse [remember that Reggie J had a great last game with 13 assists, but that the decline had already started with him at the helm.] One thing I remember is the overpriced Galloway looking like he might be worth it after all with his devastating cuts into creases in middle distance combined with dynamite shooting; Harris did something similar, often on the other side of the course. Recently, Griffin's been quite an offensive credit, with at least one writer giving credit to SVG. Still, the offense looks really static. It looks like SVG wants to pile on opportunities for his best options (now Blake and Reggie B), while being uncomfortable giving opportunities to the erratic guys like Stanley J, Kennard, and Galloway. Makes sense, but not really, because going with your best options again and again makes the O more predictable and easier to stop by good teams. Doing the risky thing, many elements of which you describe BallinD, doesn't come naturally to SVG. Ironically, then, individuals (like Blake and Reggie B) come to be featured [incidentally my guess is that Reggie B will recede some when Reggie J reemerges] even though SVG, abstractly, is committed to a team oriented O. He's temperamentally unable to live up to his own ideals.

cool breeze wrote:
BallinD wrote:@Sparma: There may be even more going on than what is possible, but what is also comfortable.  Consider: SVG is a P&R guy who had to be dragged kicking and screaming toward a motion offense, with secondary ball handlers and secondary passers.  He talked about motion being harder to sustain at the beginning of the season, compared to pick and roll, his baby.  He warned us, perhaps because of the personnell and also warned about his own tendencies.  With Luke and Blake, and Bullock and even Dre, we have cutters, passers, shooters, post up, offensive rebounding.  Luke and Blake pose the best passing, and SJ is no slouch off the bench.  RJax can be a willing passer, but it is not his nature, but he is capable.

The culture here of an unselfish team has never been created nor supported by MGT/Leadership.

So back to Stan.  It is not really a surprise, considering how we got Blake before the ASB, that he went straight ISO with Blake for so many games, probably fueled by the false confidence spawned by the "catching teams on the second game of a B2B winning streak."  Now with Weggie coming back to an empty arena and a floundering team, why shouldn't we go back to the comfort zone of Weggie P&R, hero ball and let's go get a couple of more wins, even though we have no shot at the playoffs and we could sure use the opportunity to keep that 1-4 protected pick.  

It could be different, but SVG is not the man to make it so.


SPARMA: The reasons for us not playing such a team oriented way, that would include second passes and swarming defense, are many. Lack of basketball IQ? Sure, but I think we did show what we could do in the first 20 games. The coach? Yes, he's not getting the buy in needed, and seems behind the times tactically. PG troubles? Yes, but again I don't think that's the whole story. Along with those factors, success itself plays a role. Here's a genuine case of success breeding success, leading to buy in. But then, we were successful for 20 games, so success then and failure now don't seem to be the whole explanation.

What the Spurs got going, what the Dutch had decades ago with their Total Football, is a complex system, dependent on numerous elements. Sadly, we fall short of several counts, so that I think we're well removed from sustained success, even though we've got some good players. But then again, the beginning of the season showed what was possible.

WoW! Both Sparma and Ballin provide more interest for sure than watching the actual Piston games. Ballin you have identified the whole picture of how SVG and his staff settle for the damn pick and roll brain dead offense. The pick and roll make sure you execute the first option and shoot it offense that has put most Piston fans asleep early in most games is geared for low basketball IQ players. So does SVG believe his players are not capable of playing a style that Sparma articulated so well in his post? regardless of the score, i am ready to scream out of boredom before the first quarter is over now because of the lack of brain power being used by our players. SVG provides the leadership and is responsible for the result during most possessions where usually only two players actually touch the basketball. Greg Kelser actually has to point out moments where the Pistons actually did make more than one pass. Maybe we should get excited when we see a player set something other than the high screen. Usually AD sets the high screen but is too late setting it or sets it on the wrong side. No young player can develop or flourish in a system that we have witnessed since SVG arrived. Ballin has it down as to how SVG thinks. He cannot wait for Reggie Jackson to come back to end any chance of a motion offense or any other type of offense to be run other than the din witted SVG pock and roll Jr High offense. Soon we will see even fewer passes. We will never see the day when we have a team that has a system like the Spurs as long as SVG is in charge.

Watching AD against the Kings in the first half made me almost laugh. AD is determined to be an offensive juggernaut. He tried a turn around jump shot that missed the rim. Several hook shots were forced contested shots that had no chance of going in. I can forgive all of this nonsense being that the Pistons are out of contention for the playoffs. But what grinds me is AD's attitude on defense. If anyone has the game recorded on their DVR go to the 3:26 minute mark of the 2nd quarter. The rookie point guard Fox for the Kings drove into the center of the lane. AD was not guarding his man who was out on the right wing setting a screen for Fox. If you get a chance take a look at AD's footwork. If he did what he did for any college team his ass would be quickly moved to the bench where he would stay for the remainder of the game. In the 2 seconds it took for Fox to get within 3 feet of the basket, AD took two slow steps while watching Fox approach. There was clearly no attempt by Drummond to provide any resistance against this small guard who made a jump shot over AD. AD never brought one arm above his waist to contest the shot. That was not a winning type of moment for our expensive starting center who keeps getting all those records and stats that should make him great trading material. We will never win anything with this center. His mind is not conditioned to making the special plays all great players can make to help their team become great. No team can win when their starting center offers little to no resistence in a one on one situation inside the painted area. This was the AD I saw a lot of when he played at UCONN. AD does block some shots but he is never consistently a feared defender of the paint. He is a part time defender and nobody can guess when he will even box out when a game is on the line in the closing seconds. Maybe some of you enjoy watching AD dunk the ball or get the meaningless rebounds. I want a top tier point guard and 2 guard to start the process of rebuilding. We need to trade AD to start that process. But as others have pointed out, SVG is just waiting for Reggie Jackson to right the ship with that pick and roll play featuring AD's offense. If AD is not open on the roll Reggie can either shoot it or pass it back to Blake to shoot the 3 ball. Will we actually have to watch that next season?
Sparma
Sparma

Posts : 2553
Join date : 2011-12-17

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:00 pm

BallinD wrote:@Sparma: There may be even more going on than what is possible, but what is also comfortable.  Consider: SVG is a P&R guy who had to be dragged kicking and screaming toward a motion offense, with secondary ball handlers and secondary passers.  He talked about motion being harder to sustain at the beginning of the season, compared to pick and roll, his baby.  He warned us, perhaps because of the personnell and also warned about his own tendencies.  With Luke and Blake, and Bullock and even Dre, we have cutters, passers, shooters, post up, offensive rebounding.  Luke and Blake pose the best passing, and SJ is no slouch off the bench.  RJax can be a willing passer, but it is not his nature, but he is capable.

The culture here of an unselfish team has never been created nor supported by MGT/Leadership.

So back to Stan.  It is not really a surprise, considering how we got Blake before the ASB, that he went straight ISO with Blake for so many games, probably fueled by the false confidence spawned by the "catching teams on the second game of a B2B winning streak."  Now with Weggie coming back to an empty arena and a floundering team, why shouldn't we go back to the comfort zone of Weggie P&R, hero ball and let's go get a couple of more wins, even though we have no shot at the playoffs and we could sure use the opportunity to keep that 1-4 protected pick.  

It could be different, but SVG is not the man to make it so.


SPARMA: The reasons for us not playing such a team oriented way, that would include second passes and swarming defense, are many. Lack of basketball IQ? Sure, but I think we did show what we could do in the first 20 games. The coach? Yes, he's not getting the buy in needed, and seems behind the times tactically. PG troubles? Yes, but again I don't think that's the whole story. Along with those factors, success itself plays a role. Here's a genuine case of success breeding success, leading to buy in. But then, we were successful for 20 games, so success then and failure now don't seem to be the whole explanation.

What the Spurs got going, what the Dutch had decades ago with their Total Football, is a complex system, dependent on numerous elements. Sadly, we fall short of several counts, so that I think we're well removed from sustained success, even though we've got some good players. But then again, the beginning of the season showed what was possible.

WoW! Both Sparma and Ballin provide more interest for sure than watching the actual Piston games. Ballin you have identified the whole picture of how SVG and his staff settle for the damn pick and roll brain dead offense. The pick and roll make sure you execute the first option and shoot it offense that has put most Piston fans asleep early in most games is geared for low basketball IQ players. So does SVG believe his players are not capable of playing a style that Sparma articulated so well in his post? regardless of the score, i am ready to scream out of boredom before the first quarter is over now because of the lack of brain power being used by our players. SVG provides the leadership and is responsible for the result during most possessions where usually only two players actually touch the basketball. Greg Kelser actually has to point out moments where the Pistons actually did make more than one pass. Maybe we should get excited when we see a player set something other than the high screen. Usually AD sets the high screen but is too late setting it or sets it on the wrong side. No young player can develop or flourish in a system that we have witnessed since SVG arrived. Ballin has it down as to how SVG thinks. He cannot wait for Reggie Jackson to come back to end any chance of a motion offense or any other type of offense to be run other than the din witted SVG pock and roll Jr High offense. Soon we will see even fewer passes. We will never see the day when we have a team that has a system like the Spurs as long as SVG is in charge.

Watching AD against the Kings in the first half made me almost laugh. AD is determined to be an offensive juggernaut. He tried a turn around jump shot that missed the rim. Several hook shots were forced contested shots that had no chance of going in. I can forgive all of this nonsense being that the Pistons are out of contention for the playoffs. But what grinds me is AD's attitude on defense. If anyone has the game recorded on their DVR go to the 3:26 minute mark of the 2nd quarter. The rookie point guard Fox for the Kings drove into the center of the lane. AD was not guarding his man who was out on the right wing setting a screen for Fox. If you get a chance take a look at AD's footwork. If he did what he did for any college team his ass would be quickly moved to the bench where he would stay for the remainder of the game. In the 2 seconds it took for Fox to get within 3 feet of the basket, AD took two slow steps while watching Fox approach. There was clearly no attempt by Drummond to provide any resistance against this small guard who made a jump shot over AD. AD never brought one arm above his waist to contest the shot. That was not a winning type of moment for our expensive starting center who keeps getting all those records and stats that should make him great trading material. We will never win anything with this center. His mind is not conditioned to making the special plays all great players can make to help their team become great. No team can win when their starting center offers little to no resistence in a one on one situation inside the painted area. This was the AD I saw a lot of when he played at UCONN. AD does block some shots but he is never consistently a feared defender of the paint. He is a part time defender and nobody can guess when he will even box out when a game is on the line in the closing seconds. Maybe some of you enjoy watching AD dunk the ball or get the meaningless rebounds. I want a top tier point guard and 2 guard to start the process of rebuilding. We need to trade AD to start that process. But as others have pointed out, SVG is just waiting for Reggie Jackson to right the ship with that pick and roll play featuring AD's offense. If AD is not open on the roll Reggie can either shoot it or pass it back to Blake to shoot the 3 ball. Will we actually have to watch that next season?

cool breeze

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty System Error or Cultural Wasteland

Post  BallinD Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:02 pm

@Sparma: There may be even more going on than what is possible, but what is also comfortable.  Consider: SVG is a P&R guy who had to be dragged kicking and screaming toward a motion offense, with secondary ball handlers and secondary passers.  He talked about motion being harder to sustain at the beginning of the season, compared to pick and roll, his baby.  He warned us, perhaps because of the personnell and also warned about his own tendencies.  With Luke and Blake, and Bullock and even Dre, we have cutters, passers, shooters, post up, offensive rebounding.  Luke and Blake pose the best passing, and SJ is no slouch off the bench.  RJax can be a willing passer, but it is not his nature, but he is capable.

The culture here of an unselfish team has never been created nor supported by MGT/Leadership.

So back to Stan.  It is not really a surprise, considering how we got Blake before the ASB, that he went straight ISO with Blake for so many games, probably fueled by the false confidence spawned by the "catching teams on the second game of a B2B winning streak."  Now with Weggie coming back to an empty arena and a floundering team, why shouldn't we go back to the comfort zone of Weggie P&R, hero ball and let's go get a couple of more wins, even though we have no shot at the playoffs and we could sure use the opportunity to keep that 1-4 protected pick.  

It could be different, but SVG is not the man to make it so.


SPARMA: The reasons for us not playing such a team oriented way, that would include second passes and swarming defense, are many. Lack of basketball IQ? Sure, but I think we did show what we could do in the first 20 games. The coach? Yes, he's not getting the buy in needed, and seems behind the times tactically. PG troubles? Yes, but again I don't think that's the whole story. Along with those factors, success itself plays a role. Here's a genuine case of success breeding success, leading to buy in. But then, we were successful for 20 games, so success then and failure now don't seem to be the whole explanation.

What the Spurs got going, what the Dutch had decades ago with their Total Football, is a complex system, dependent on numerous elements. Sadly, we fall short of several counts, so that I think we're well removed from sustained success, even though we've got some good players. But then again, the beginning of the season showed what was possible.
BallinD
BallinD

Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty System Error

Post  Sparma Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Thanks Don. Getting so few second assists reflects a really big problem, I think, one that's related to their poor defense (of late).

During the first 20 games, I'm pretty sure that we did get plenty of those second assists, and we did play a swarming team defense. That's why I'd thought we'd turned the corner.

My favorite sports team of all team was the '68 Tigers, followed the 1974 Dutch World Cup team, along with the Bad Boys. I lived in the Netherlands at the time, and the nation lived and died with their team. They lost a heartbreaker to Germany after going up in the first minute. Scoring the most goals in the tournament, letting up the fewest, having the MVP (Cruijff) won them admiration, but they were loved for the beautiful brand of Total Football that they invented. Without going into detail, a key component (along with individual brilliance) was putting the well being of the team over that of the individual, both on O and D.

We don't do that.

An example closer to home are the Spurs, where the individual is subordinated to what's best for the team, leading to decades of sustained excellence until this season.

The reasons for us not playing such a team oriented way, that would include second passes and swarming defense, are many. Lack of basketball IQ? Sure, but I think we did show what we could do in the first 20 games. The coach? Yes, he's not getting the buy in needed, and seems behind the times tactically. PG troubles? Yes, but again I don't think that's the whole story. Along with those factors, success itself plays a role. Here's a genuine case of success breeding success, leading to buy in. But then, we were successful for 20 games, so success then and failure now don't seem to be the whole explanation.

What the Spurs got going, what the Dutch had decades ago with their Total Football, is a complex system, dependent on numerous elements. Sadly, we fall short of several counts, so that I think we're well removed from sustained success, even though we've got some good players. But then again, the beginning of the season showed what was possible.


cool breeze wrote:
Sparma wrote:It's the Kings, but we'll take it.  Incidentally, they'll probably be better than us in two years.

Impressive game by Griffin.

Read a stat recently that confirmed my eye test: we're a little below average with assists, but near the bottom of the league with hockey assists, or passes leading to an official assist.  

Kelser highlighted a score by Griffin as our best offensive play, with all but one touching the ball on the play, and Griffin getting the ball back a third time, with the D out of balance.  It occurred to me that a reason Kelser emphasized that play so much is that it's so rare.  He knows that ball movement is key.  And not just  ball movement, not just passing the ball around the around.  What's needed is effective, creative, ball movement that leaves the D unable to cover the last guy who gets the ball.  We're really subpar on that score.  The numbers bear it out.

That said, we'll take any win on the road.

Well said Sparma. The play Kelser mentioned was meaningful. It must be a drag to announce Piston games when they see the same thing over and over. We have a low basketball IQ team when it comes to playing defense especially when games are on the line but the offense takes the cake. It seems that all of our players can only think one play ahead. And that play is them visualizing that they will shoot the ball. Nobody moves without the ball for a good reason. This makes the entire Piston coaching staff appear to be the dumbest or lowest basketball IQ coaching staff in the entire league. Maybe the players do fit well with this coaching staff. And where does the owner fit in with both entities if he was the one who insisted on that trade with the Clippers????
Sparma
Sparma

Posts : 2553
Join date : 2011-12-17

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:12 pm

Sparma wrote:It's the Kings, but we'll take it.  Incidentally, they'll probably be better than us in two years.

Impressive game by Griffin.

Read a stat recently that confirmed my eye test: we're a little below average with assists, but near the bottom of the league with hockey assists, or passes leading to an official assist.  

Kelser highlighted a score by Griffin as our best offensive play, with all but one touching the ball on the play, and Griffin getting the ball back a third time, with the D out of balance.  It occurred to me that a reason Kelser emphasized that play so much is that it's so rare.  He knows that ball movement is key.  And not just  ball movement, not just passing the ball around the around.  What's needed is effective, creative, ball movement that leaves the D unable to cover the last guy who gets the ball.  We're really subpar on that score.  The numbers bear it out.

That said, we'll take any win on the road.

Well said Sparma. The play Kelser mentioned was meaningful. It must be a drag to announce Piston games when they see the same thing over and over. We have a low basketball IQ team when it comes to playing defense especially when games are on the line but the offense takes the cake. It seems that all of our players can only think one play ahead. And that play is them visualizing that they will shoot the ball. Nobody moves without the ball for a good reason. This makes the entire Piston coaching staff appear to be the dumbest or lowest basketball IQ coaching staff in the entire league. Maybe the players do fit well with this coaching staff. And where does the owner fit in with both entities if he was the one who insisted on that trade with the Clippers????

cool breeze

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty What is the real truth relating to who pulled the trigger on the worst trade in Piston history????

Post  cool breeze Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:03 pm

When the trade was first announced, writers stated that the Piston front office recommended against the trade involving Blake Griffin. Several sources stated that Tom Gores insisted on the trade and forced it to happen. Now according to the articles on the right side of this page the trade is regarded as a panic move by Stan Van Gundy and the Piston GM to save his job. What is it Piston fans? We need to identify who the idiot was so we can request the following. Either fire Stan Van Gundy from all duties or force the owner to sell the team to a more competent owner. Even Bill Davidson's wife wouldn't have agreed to the trades that ended up placing the Pistons in an impossible position to make any meaningful moves plus giving up our number on pick this season and the 2nd round pick next year. Nobody could dream up something this bad.

One final comment about the coaching. Why in hell is SVG still using Tolliver now that the Pistons are out of the playoff picture? Same thing happened last season where we saw Leuer log minutes that should have been used for a G League player or the forgotten Henry Ellenson. What if Ellenson played with the starters? Rest Blake Griffin for the rest of the season so he doesn't incur a serious injury. The Pistons ownership and management all the way down to the head coach and his assistants are the dumbest group in the entire NBA. What does that make us if we watch this abortion. The Pistons are dead and buried in the ground. They will dwell in no mans land for many years while AD works on the defensive rotation system. The only way to have any chance to improve the team would be to trade the Pistons most tradable asset. Andre Drummond must go. The Pistons might as well go deep into the basement and attempt to get lucky in the 2019 draft. We need draft picks and a young enough player who has great potential to become a star player in 3 years in any trade involving Drummond. We have no other players on the team that will bring much of anything. We have to hope that Stanley Johnson will figure things out next season too or let him go.

Being the Pistons need to get down to the range of the worst team in the NBA next season, SVG must go. He is an idiot who will try to win meaningless games unlike any other franchise when playoff chances are dim. SVG would drive any business into bankruptcy. The Pistons need a new young front office with a young college coach who can select competent assistant coaches not old cronies as SVG has done. If the owner trots out this same coaching staff and players next year he should not show his face in the arena. But maybe he could because unless a lot of free tickets are passed out to the high school kids, nobody will attend the games. You can see that this current group of Pistons prefer to play away from home. They liked the crowd at Portland. People there attend games win or lose but of course they love watching their guards play basketball. The perfect hell for SVG would be to have to spend eternity with his point guards with the exception of Buycks.

cool breeze

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Kings of the road?

Post  Sparma Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:38 am

It's the Kings, but we'll take it. Incidentally, they'll probably be better than us in two years.

Impressive game by Griffin.

Read a stat recently that confirmed my eye test: we're a little below average with assists, but near the bottom of the league with hockey assists, or passes leading to an official assist.

Kelser highlighted a score by Griffin as our best offensive play, with all but one touching the ball on the play, and Griffin getting the ball back a third time, with the D out of balance. It occurred to me that a reason Kelser emphasized that play so much is that it's so rare. He knows that ball movement is key. And not just ball movement, not just passing the ball around the around. What's needed is effective, creative, ball movement that leaves the D unable to cover the last guy who gets the ball. We're really subpar on that score. The numbers bear it out.

That said, we'll take any win on the road.
Sparma
Sparma

Posts : 2553
Join date : 2011-12-17

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Michigan wins a STUNNER!!!

Post  Oracle Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:28 am

FORUM - Page 20 Untitl20
Oracle
Oracle

Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  Sparma Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:42 pm

WTF: "If only this kind of magic happened in the NBA playoffs."

I'm wondering if there are fewer upsets in the NBA playoffs than in any other sport. Seven game series inherently lend themselves to the best team coming out victorious more often than in a single contest. Plus there are so many rounds the best, or one of the very best, almost always seems to win. There's baseball but a) success is distributed across a 25 man roster, and b) chance (millimeters making a difference in clubbing a projectile) plays a big role than in basketball.

Correction? Winning the regular season championship in (European) soccer rarely allows for real upsets. Leicester City winning the Premier League a couple of years ago was a genuine miracle. In the various playoffs, weird winners sometimes emerge (Liverpool winning when down 3-0), but even there it's rare anymore at the highest level (Champion's League).

But not as rare as in the NBA playoffs. The Pistons were a big surprise (could easily have lost v NJ or Indiana that year), but in retrospect it seems like they were clearly the best team in the playoffs that year.




WTF wrote:
Murph wrote:My condolences to all the Arizona fans out there.  Shocked

Is that the biggest upset in NCAA Tournament history?

It was until yesterday when a 16 seed knocks off a 1 seed in dominate fashion WOW!  Shocked  I can imagine everyone bracket is jacked up as Loyola just knocked off Tenn.    If only this kind of magic happened in the NBA playoffs 

Here's hoping my Wolverines are no worse than an Elite Eight team.   Funny though I'm thinking they could win it all smelling like 1989 all over.
Sparma
Sparma

Posts : 2553
Join date : 2011-12-17

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty DeAndre Ayton

Post  WTF Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:25 pm

I'm not sold, really getting tired of the hyping of freshman players and this one and done crap.   The only reason he could work at the NBA level is that it's so freaking watered down a turd could flourish.   Taking these freshmen players only makes the league worse year after year.
WTF
WTF

Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Upset City

Post  WTF Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:18 pm

Murph wrote:My condolences to all the Arizona fans out there.  Shocked

Is that the biggest upset in NCAA Tournament history?

It was until yesterday when a 16 seed knocks off a 1 seed in dominate fashion WOW!  Shocked  I can imagine everyone bracket is jacked up as Loyola just knocked off Tenn.    If only this kind of magic happened in the NBA playoffs 

Here's hoping my Wolverines are no worse than an Elite Eight team.   Funny though I'm thinking they could win it all smelling like 1989 all over.
WTF
WTF

Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:20 pm

Murph wrote:My condolences to all the Arizona fans out there.  Shocked

Is that the biggest upset in NCAA Tournament history?

Thanks Murph. It is pretty quiet in Tucson today. Everyone has the basketball blues. Arizona has won the conference tournament two years in a row plus were champs of the PAC12 tournament in both years. They had no juice in the NCAA tournament after that success during the regular season. But this loss should send a message to coach Miller. He had the best player in the country in DeAndre Ayton. Any team who had Ayton had a chance to win the tournament. But the guards on Arizona were not of the caliber of those skill players on Buffalo. Trier was the 2nd best player and was MVP of last season's PAC12 tournament. He plays both point and 2 guard. He was a deadly shooter up until the last week of the regular season. His game was off last night.

There are some comparisons between Arizona and our Pistons. The emphasis by Piston management has been to spend the bulk of the money on the center and power forward positions. Neither our center or power forward are good enough to carry any team in the NBA. Our skill players are 2nd rate and nowhere near close to any of the skill players on the current rosters of the playoff teams. Reggie Jackson was a back up for the Thunder and his teammates didn't approve of his selfish ways where Reggie put himself above the good of his team. Players let him know of their feelings too. There was no way he was coming back to the Thunder before Detroit made the trade for him. Yet Piston management has tried real hard to push the narrative that Reggie Jackson is a top tier NBA point guard. Reggie is a 2 guard and has never been a good game manager who could think like a point guard needs to think if his team is going to be successful. Mitchell was available in last season's draft. Coach SVG had his two guys in Jackson and Smith. Who in hell would go with those two if they ever expected to win in the playoffs let alone make the playoffs? Big mistake that has cost the Pistons big time. Now it is clear that Buycks is a better point guard than either Jackson or Smith based on his amazing game last night. He came from the minor leagues not high up in the draft. Is Buycks a top tier point guard. NO. Going to the Pistons 2 and 3 positions things get even more muddy. It is clear that our point guards, 2 guards or small forwards could crack the starting lineup on any current playoff team. We need to sift through the propaganda that the owner and President keeps sending. The Pistons played hard last night but couldn't stop my Grandmother on defense at any time for the entire first half. The starting unit is terrible.

The coaching strategy for Arizona and the Pistons sucks. Last night the coaching staff never made the adjustment when their big men were getting beat off the dribble. Sean Miller refuses to use any type of zone defense and that team has paid a big price all season long especially relating to Duson Ristic the starting center who is caught too far out on the pick and roll plays and is slow to recover. At least Ristic doesn't switch off like AD does with Smith so Smith is matched up with the opposing center in the paint. SVG refused to create an offense that fit his team now for the past two seasons. Miller refused to create a defense to fit his team at Arizona or to create an offense so his center could touch the ball more in the paint. Last night Ayton was really off his game. He hits his jump shots at a high percentage on most nights. Got to find a way to get him the ball in the paint but his teammates kept making mental mistakes including R. Alkins Arizona's small forward. I only mention his name because I saw his name listed as the Pistons 2nd round pick in this year's draft. What a mistake that would be to draft that player. Alkins is about 20 pounds over weight and is not in good basketball shape. He had an ankle injury earlier and missed a lot of games. But his ball handling skill level is primitive at best. His outside shooting ability is not anywhere near that of Alonzo trier who is listed further down in the 2nd round from Alkins. Alkins is not a good decision maker on offense and often leaves his feet before a teammate is open for a pass. Alkins turns the ball over a lot. It is insane that he is listed in the 2nd round. But it would only be fitting for the Pistons to pass on a point guard and draft Alkins. I don't think that SVG is that dumb but who knows.

I am happy for my old conference the MAC. Buffalo has an outstanding coach and some really tough players. I just hope they beat Kentucky. I still recall those loses in the tournament when CMU was matched up against Kentucky and took them to overtime and lost on a bogus call. And then there was the loss to UCLA that still hurts when Reggie Miller just couldn't miss. Go MAC! Watching Arizona lose the way they lost and then watching the Pistons game against Denver may have cured me of spending so much time watching basketball. But I still love the first week of the NCAA where the small schools get a chance to get lucky and knock off the media favorites.

If SVG doesn't start Buycks in the next game, he is an idiot. That trade involving Griffin has upset the applecart. I think Detroit had a good chance to make the playoffs if they had done nothing at all and retained their first round pick. It seems clear that almost everyone would agree with me on that.

cool breeze

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  Sparma Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:15 pm

Really good point on Utah's commitment to development, Phil. This may sound silly now, but I'm not sure Gordon Hayward (drafted #9) was seen as a much better highly regarded prospect than Luke coming into the league. But Utah was fully committed to developing him. Same story with Mitchell. That's not to say I see Luke hitting their heights, but that commitment to development makes a big difference.

I really liked Spencer Dinwiddie coming into the league, even though I questioned if he (post-injury) could quite hang with NBA pace. You could see he had skills and smarts though. And getting farther from the injury, developing more strength gave him the physicality do very well in the league. I feel differently about Stanley J at #8 because I could see at once that his release point would be trouble in the NBA. That's someone you take a flier on lower in the draft (after drafting that super shooter from the region). Still, you could put a ton of work into developing him into a scrappy D guy who can be a weapon in open court from the get go. And the "development" of Kennard's been appalling; I can't get over Stan humiliating him by pulling him after a minute. That was a teaching moment, not a humiliation moment.

Phil1980boy wrote:I was looking at the 2017 NBA Draft close and I had Kennard ranked Sky high over Mitchell. Mitchell looked like A Rodney Stuckey clone to me.

Utah knows the only way they will ever win anything is to develop their draft picks.

Detroit and Gores think the only way for Detroit to win is to trade for Blake Griffin and give away lottery picks for A Organization that needs lottery picks DESPERTLEY!

Van Gundy does not develop young guys.

Utah does.

Advantage Mitchell. But Luke can play.
Sparma
Sparma

Posts : 2553
Join date : 2011-12-17

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Arizona

Post  Murph Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:38 am

My condolences to all the Arizona fans out there. Shocked

Is that the biggest upset in NCAA Tournament history?

Murph

Posts : 2437
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 63
Location : Wilton, CT

Back to top Go down

FORUM - Page 20 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 20 of 40 Previous  1 ... 11 ... 19, 20, 21 ... 30 ... 40  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics
» FORUM
» FORUM
» FORUM
» FORUM
» FORUM

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum