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Don

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:59 pm

I don't mean to single you out, but you provide the best case for me to make this point. You said,

Don wrote:This team looks much like last season's team after the month of December. This team is the most dysfunctional team in the NBA.
Right after that you proceed to launch into the player blame game!

Just days ago, you said that this team is FUN to watch... so what happened? Did the players all of a sudden change, and if they did why?

You did EXACTLY the same thing last season, your default is to blame players, it's amazing how going through the same thing fails to make you question your assumptions.

It was clear to me that it wasn't all the players, and in general the old saying that the fish stinks from the head applies more times than not.

Failing to diagnose the REAL problem, everybody was happy to replace players that were part of the solution with players that turn out to be worse in the long run.

News Flash: Ish isn't the problem, how Ish is used is the problem. 

Bradley isn't the problem, delusional belief about who and what he was, coupled with how he's used is the problem.

If you're searching for the real issues, look at what's common, the thread that runs through everything!
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External Motivation

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:31 pm

Maybe our thoroughbred responds best to embarrassment as opposed to the whip.

This masterpiece was very likely the result of an All Star snub.  A few weeks back Dre put up a run of solid performances after having his arse majorly called out AND roundly stomped by Embide.    
Hopefully at some point Andre will develop a means of internally motivating himself to this level.  

It was kinda nice to see him go hard at a top shot blocker.


Last edited by lemonpen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wise

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:04 pm

I'm satisfied, you recognized his accomplishment, that's all I wanted to see.

Your other points are 100% valid and I feel the same way, I want to see something close to this level every night. Then and ONLY then does he get to be anywhere near Big Ben, Laimbeer or Lanier.

But he needs coaching! It's amazing the improvements he's making, I used to doubt his commitment to getting better, but I can see it's there, he just needs more help. It's performances like this that not only shows us what he can do, it shows him what he needs to do.

So I'm like you, this was great, but I'm not satisfied and Drummond shouldn't be either.

Having said that, Drummond is the LEAST of this teams problems!
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Oracle To The Rescue LMAO

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:32 pm

Oracle wrote:What the hell are you guys trying to prove?

Drummond had a fantastic game, record book good and all you want to do is complain, denigrate his accomplishment? I don't get it!

@Sparma: Who cares if someone did it during cave man days? Is the goal to take away from what he did? I do credit you with fairness on both sides by praising his as well.

@Wise: So if someone during the recorded era came close, what is your argument? Why would you be looking for ways to diminish what he did.

The real issue is that if you watched this game and didn't recognize that what Drummond did wasn't special, you need better basketball glasses. Look, I know you guys are trying to look at a bigger picture, but let's not let this accomplishment get lost in the trees.

My first impression was that I had seen something different from Drummond(and I said it right away), I was impressed but didn't know how special it was, but I knew I had seen something really good.

Then there's Don, with another one of those fake posts! "Who can be happy with AD's stats when the team lost while creating over 20 turnovers?"

Well you can and should if your were a Piston fan. I've seen you giddy with Singler's numbers and Knight's numbers in many losses before. I've seen you rave about Stanley's play in amazing losses, and Bradley silly crap while screwing up the whole team.

But you can't be happy for Drummond because we lost due to HORRIBLE coaching(see Lemon's post)? Sick!

Honestly Oracle I would be happier if we were talking him actually averaging that 20/20 I so desire to see out him.  I think we recognize it was a great performance but there are buts  I think Lemon and Don points that it came in a loss does take away from it, worse that it was against a team we should have easily beaten.  Reality is we could probably feel better about it if this same performance was duplicated in the previous 5 losses.

Also I think Sparma assessment was that it was a great performance just as you were thinking my rebuttal was to just keep it in it's proper context as great as a performance as it was it wasn't an uncommon feat beyond the actual numbers being the same.  I just hate when these moments happen we're acting like we haven't seen great moments before.  

Again I'm not as easily impress by it because I can only look at it in it's entirety especially when he's mention in the same breathe as great players like Ben and Bill. I'm only interested in Next Level at this point so what happens if he lays an egg in the next 2 games that's that may or may happen but it could and then what will this performance matter.
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@Sparma

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:09 pm

@Sparma, There's not a doubt that Andre's performance was nothing but spectacular and I do give him that.  I just doubt have a one game view of him and wish he was more along the line of this statement you offered of Wilt averages about 24/24/8 assists I think that's fair to ask, but I'm only asking him for a consistent 20/20 and perhaps a couple of blocks.  

I'm not trying to talk down Andre's performance I just refuse to talk it up beyond it being a spectacular performance.  I'm just saying that there's be a ton of individual performances like this rather they been exact in numbers.  But in playing the if game I don't think Andre would fair very well with either Bill or Ben because this guys where good in their own right.   I don't think they benefitted from the players they played with, Andre is physically more gifted than both of them but Bill did his thing against the best centers and Ben dominated players centers just like Andre.  

I'm just saying that we've seen incredible games by Bill and Ben in more pressure moments in bigger games.  In one playoff season Bill averaged 17 rebounds I think its was the season we lost to Boston in the ECF before our first trip to the Finals.  Bill wasn't going up against scrub centers every night either seems every team had a dominated big.   I don't think he's ready to be compared to those 2 not yet anyway.

Where was this performance when he face D Howard,  where was this performance in the 3 losses to Philly?  I'm hard on Andre for good reason so petting him on his head for something he should be doing more often than not is just too hard to do.
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Come on, quit with the caveats!

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:54 pm

What the hell are you guys trying to prove?

Drummond had a fantastic game, record book good and all you want to do is complain, denigrate his accomplishment? I don't get it!

@Sparma: Who cares if someone did it during cave man days? Is the goal to take away from what he did? I do credit you with fairness on both sides by praising his as well.

@Wise: So if someone during the recorded era came close, what is your argument? Why would you be looking for ways to diminish what he did.

The real issue is that if you watched this game and didn't recognize that what Drummond did wasn't special, you need better basketball glasses. Look, I know you guys are trying to look at a bigger picture, but let's not let this accomplishment get lost in the trees.

My first impression was that I had seen something different from Drummond(and I said it right away), I was impressed but didn't know how special it was, but I knew I had seen something really good.

Then there's Don, with another one of those fake posts! "Who can be happy with AD's stats when the team lost while creating over 20 turnovers?"

Well you can and should if your were a Piston fan. I've seen you giddy with Singler's numbers and Knight's numbers in many losses before. I've seen you rave about Stanley's play in amazing losses, and Bradley silly crap while screwing up the whole team.

But you can't be happy for Drummond because we lost due to HORRIBLE coaching(see Lemon's post)? Sick!
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Centers

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:32 pm

I partly agree with Wise's caveats; I'd just like to hear acknowledgement from him that Drummond's achievement was truly spectacular.

Caveat 1: I doubt that AD's numbers are unprecedented.  Wilt's career ran through 1972-73; at an ESPN site, he credited with no blocks or steals!  The mention of no equivalent since 1973-'74 likely signifies that that's when official records of blocks and steals started.  We know that Wilt led the league in assists one year.  I've read estimates that he frequently got 10 blocks in a game.  Steals by centers (as for AD and Ben W) are often based on strength and quick hands, both of which Wilt had.  So I'd guess that Wilt for one, did equal AD's numbers.  We don't know that there's no precedent; we can make a reasonable guess that that there has been.

Caveat 2: Bill James's pointed out that focusing on the exact combination of numbers of an accomplishment (eg above .316 with 34 doubles, 6 triples, and 24 HRs) can lead to idiosyncratic, even misleading, comparisons.  I'm not claiming that AD's stats were the greatest ever, just that they were really great.  Aside from averaging 50/25 one year, Wilt averaged about 24/24/8 assists for two seasons, no doubt with a ton of blocks added.

Comparisons with Piston greats: I love and admire Laimbeer and Ben Wallace.  I'm trying to praise AD by placing him in conversation with them, not talk them down. In all, I'm presently inclined to go with a Lanier, Wallace, Drummond, Laimbeer ranking among Piston centers now. Won't be able to complete the comparison until AD's career is in the books. We've been blessed by an incredible set of centers!

That said, one thing that seems clear to me is that if Bill or Ben could be teleported to go up against Andre 1:1, he'd destroy them.

Bill also made 4 All-Star teams.  Both Bill and Ben benefited from Centers have their own slot, or two really, on the All Star teams.  Andre, at 24!!, would at least be sitting at 2, if not more if it still were that way.

Ben has an impressive set of honors, no doubt.  If I'm counting right, at Andre's age, Ben was on the bench in Washington, while Bill was an ordinary center in Cleveland, about to be traded to Detroit.  Andre, by contrast, just set a youngest ever mark in rebounding.

Yes, Ben was truly great on D.  He also averaged 5.7 ppg for this career, only twice going over 9 ppg (the first time with serious help from an innovative Larry Brown).  That's about where I'd project Eric Moreland's production, if he were given Ben's numbers.  Ben could be a serious drag on the O; not so for Andre, who makes a good, though not great, offensive contribution. And more controversially: I think Ben offered little resistance to Shaq in the finals, getting pushed around easily.  Great D, yes, but not against the best.  I can't picture AD getting pushed around like that, although in fairness Embiid has punked him pretty good in other ways.

Switching briefly back to yesterday's game, and to Boban: in the 2nd quarter, with Boban playing a lot, Kelser commented that he really liked the tandem of Centers SVG was using, as they were both capable of putting pressure on Gobert.  Blaha said he wanted to see Boban go up against Gobert; once Boban destroyed him on a play, both he and Kelser praised him. Boban didn't do much in the 2nd half (partly due to SVG limiting his opportunities), but did end up neutral (0) for the game, third best on the team, with only Kennard and Tolliver + for the night.  The idea that he just shouldn't be playing against Utah didn't occur to Kelser (a company man, but one I regard as not only astute but also honest and frank, albeit politely).
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Dead Man Walking

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:51 am

After Smiths miracle steal with 13.8 seconds remaining, and having a 1 point lead, and having 2 time outs in his pocket, AND seeing his team misfire badly on its last 5 possessions, HOW COULD STAN NOT CALL AN IMMEDIATE TIME OUT TO ORGANIZE OUR LAST POSSESSION.
Someone help me, I’m bewildered. It took Utah 2 seconds to figure out to foul Dre. Plenty of time for a game reset.

Afterward all Stan could talk about was how difficult it is to win when committing 20 turnovers. Didn’t Utah’s one turn over with 13 seconds left damn near outweigh all 20 of ours.

I think I have seen enough to support relieving SVG of the coaching reins.
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Hope Springs Eternal

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:49 am

A week ago I laid out all of my reasons why Andre was not All Star quality. Fast forward 5 days.

When I learned of Andre’s response to the All Star snub my reaction was one of disappointment. I felt that he had a distorted view of what an All Star looked like on a nightly basis. To use a well worn phrase it seemed like his “BAR WAS LOW”.

I hope the masterpiece he painted last night is a direct result of him now carrying a Sequoia size chip on his shoulder. I hope that masterpiece reflects an upgraded realization of what ALL STAR quality is. I hope the chip on his shoulder is never to be dislodged, stoking a career-long inferno. I have never before seen THAT guy. How long before the next game?
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I Guess His Whining On Twitter Rubbed Me Wrong

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:26 am

I think many are putting too much mustard on this hotdog lol

Quadruple Doubles only the Admiral and Dream,  Kareem, Moses, Parrish and Love all recorded a 30/30 game before I'm sure that had a block or assist to go along with that stat.  

Here's a Tidbit:  Big Ben is a 4 time All Star, 4 time DPOY, 11 time ALL NBA Team in his short NBA career,    Rodman had season rebounding averages of 18 per game 3 times.  

Come on people we know better!!!
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Who can be happy with AD's stats when the team lost while creating over 20 turnovers?

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:00 am

This team looks much like last season's team after the month of December. This team is the most dysfunctional team in the NBA. The offense once Ish Smith enters the game is the most primitive offensive team in the NBA as well. How can shooters be successful if the point guard takes over the entire offense and creates his own offense. This is what happened too much of the time. Smith gets lucky and beats the opponent's big man down the court and scores a layup. After that happened Smith tried it again. Then all I could see was 4 players standing around at spots while Smith dribbled. The shot clock winds down and Smith dribbles to one corner and gives up the ball when he is within 3 feet of his teammate. This happened to Harris, Tolliver, and Johnson. They are stuck now trying to beat the shot clock while now having two defenders on them. Smith trots away to the backcourt as if he has done his job. The Pistons have a defensive breakdown when AD fails to recognize the play Utah is running on the side out of bounds. Johnson is screened out. AD is the guy who is supposed to cut the baseline off but is too high. Result a layup to send the game into overtime. The coach who has his head up his rear keeps Smith in the game instead of bringing in Galloway. Somehow the head coach doesn't notice the total dysfunction going on with the Pistons half court offense. There is no offense. This is pure street basketball like a pick up type game where players play together for the first time. The team needed a different point guard so they could run a more predictable type offense that was effective earlier in the game. If you have a guy like Bradley who does well going around screens and then you see him standing because no offense is being run, then the coach should recognize that something is wrong. No adjustment by the head coach who is in la la land.

Keeping your head in the game is important if you are the coach. In the 3rd quarter the Pistons were looking good until SVG brought in Boban. This was not a good game to use Boban. Any coach in their right mind should have recognized that fact and if they did play him, it should have been clear after 3 turnovers in a row that someone else should have been playing center for the Pistons.

Harris is the victim of a dysfunctional offense. He is expected to make contested shots and create shots in a dysfunctional offense. Harris is confused. He is now shooting the ball without getting a good base. His body is floating. His timing is off. He is shooting the ball in the paint off balance much like Smith. But his worst trait lately is his lack of energy on the boards. Tobias is not rebounding the basketball or playing even average defense in the paint or outside the paint. Last night Tolliver should have been in the game more in the 4th quarter. It was Tolliver who dug the Pistons out a a huge hole created by the coach playing Boban.

My final comment is one that is scary and i will bet that all of you who watched the Pistons lose to a horrible NBA team that has lost a lot of games this season will agree with this observation. The Piston players look very confused on both offense and defense. I have seldom seen a team this far along in the season look so confused as a team that has now played together for a long time. On offense, the pistons appear to play the most primitive offense in the NBA. Only a few players recognize situations on the court and take advantage of those situations. Who got the ball into AD the most for easy shots around the rim last night? It was Stanley Johnson. He would penetrate and know that AD's man had to switch onto him and then could make a safe pass to the fully engaged AD. Simple plays when you use your head can work. This type of play seldom happened last night. And players seem to be rushing too much while making bad decisions as if they are in a panic situation before the 4th quarter arrives. They have the got to get the shot up look on their faces even when they do not have a high percentage chance of making the shot.

The Pistons have turned themselves into a lottery team. Why not get as high up in draft position as possible. If the coach wants the circus act with Smith so be it. Just continue to lose and make sure the games are not close. We don't want to win too many more games. Trade any of the high contract players that you can including AD. His numbers mean nothing. If the Pistons could trade Drummond with a deal for first round picks and force that team to take Reggie Jackson or Tobias Harris, the Pistons will be back in good financial shape. Now they are in a bad financial position with a horrible team on a 6 game losing streak while playing games at home against losing lottery teams. Start playing Ellenson and all of the players who are 23 and younger. Bring in players from the G League just for fun. This last game was a horribly played game by the Pistons even while they played hard with great energy. Last season they played with less energy so I guess you could say the Pistons are improving. Who ever is in charge of the point guards has been doing a horrible job now for several years.

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Great Game By Andre but.......... Other Worldly????

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:05 am

Oracle wrote:The last person before @AndreDrummond with 30 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 blocks and 3 steals in the same game is ... no one. All those stats have been kept since 1973-74. It hasn't been done. - Keith Langlois

It might be a 1st but I would still like to see how close the next player was to those exact stats stats.  Of course Keith wouldn't add that because it'll take away from the obsessive hyping he wants to apply to this moment.    lol

I'm just saying what if the opposing player or any player for that matter had a stat line of 24 points, 30 rebounds, 10 blocks, assist and 2 steals would it be any less or more impressive that what Andre put up?   Simply can't view this as being the greatest thing we've ever seen when we have all have witness performances like this many times by numerous players.  

See this kind of stuff IMHO is that the media far too often overstate moments like this KL an idiot lol


Last edited by WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Maybe I'm Throwing A Bit Of Shade

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:36 am

Oracle wrote:How many of these guys did that while scoring 30 points and recording 6 blocks, 3 steals & 4 assists against a 7'2 opponent with a 8' wingspan?

I could imagine that a few of those guys came very close to doing so.  I came across this list trying to find comparable games still looking, but I would find hard to believe that players like (Hakeem, Shaq, KG, Duncan, Camby and Barkley) didn't have similar games like this.  I'm sure I miss mentioning someone on that list that might have came closes.

I'm not knocking AD at all I just think moments like this get a bit overstated because there's a 50-50 chance he'll come out far short of those numbers next game.  I mean it when say his numbers should be bordering 20/20.   There's a ton of context in that list from a rebounding perspective just by looking at the number of times a player appears on it.
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FYI: I said Drummond's game was other worldly, well the proof is in...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 am

The last person before @AndreDrummond with 30 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 blocks and 3 steals in the same game is ... no one. All those stats have been kept since 1973-74. It hasn't been done. - Keith Langlois
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Wise: Impressive List, but you need context...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:37 am

How many of these guys did that while scoring 30 points and recording 6 blocks, 3 steals & 4 assists against a 7'2 opponent with a 8' wingspan?
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Modern Era Rebound Single Game

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:10 am

[th]Rank[/th][th]Player[/th][th]TRB[/th][th]Date[/th][th]Tm[/th]
1.Charles Oakley351988-04-22CHI
2.Rony Seikaly341993-03-03MIA
 Dennis Rodman*341992-03-04DET
4.Charles Barkley*331996-11-02HOU
 Kevin Willis331992-02-19ATL
6.Dennis Rodman*321994-01-22SAS
 Dennis Rodman*321992-01-28DET
8.Kevin Love312010-11-12MIN
 Dikembe Mutombo*311996-03-26DEN
 Dennis Rodman*311992-03-14DET
 Kevin Willis311991-12-03ATL
12.Andrew Bynum302012-04-11LAL
 Dennis Rodman*301995-02-21SAS
 Michael Cage301988-04-24LAC
15.Andre Drummond292015-11-03DET
 Timofey Mozgov292014-04-10DEN
 Nikola Vucevic292012-12-31ORL
 Dikembe Mutombo*292001-01-31ATL
 Dikembe Mutombo*291999-12-14ATL
 Dennis Rodman*291997-12-27CHI
 Dennis Rodman*291993-11-09SAS
 Herb Williams291989-01-23IND
23.Tyson Chandler282013-02-27NYK
 Ben Wallace282002-03-24DET
 Ben Wallace282001-04-17DET
 Dikembe Mutombo*282000-12-26ATL
 Popeye Jones281996-01-09DAL
 Dennis Rodman*281993-12-01SAS
 Shaquille O'Neal*281993-11-20ORL
30.Tyson Chandler272016-01-23PHO
 Andre Drummond272015-11-08DET
 DeAndre Jordan272015-02-09LAC
 Andrew Bogut272011-01-07MIL
 Tim Duncan272010-01-27SAS
 Marcus Camby272008-12-17LAC
 Ben Wallace272006-12-15CHI
 Dennis Rodman*271997-12-29CHI
 Charles Barkley*271996-12-04HOU
 Popeye Jones271996-04-06DAL
 Dennis Rodman*271995-03-05SAS
 Dennis Rodman*271995-02-07SAS
 Dennis Rodman*271992-12-23DET
 Dennis Rodman*271992-02-18DET
 Dennis Rodman*271992-01-23DET
 James Donaldson271989-12-29DAL
 Buck Williams271987-02-01NJN
 Moses Malone*271984-03-25PHI
48.Dwight Howard262016-01-18HOU
 DeAndre Jordan262015-03-01LAC
 Andre Drummond262014-04-11DET
 Andre Drummond262014-03-03DET
 Dwight Howard262013-10-30HOU
 Reggie Evans262013-03-27BRK
 Dwight Howard262013-01-06LAL
 Al Jefferson262012-04-16UTA
 Tim Duncan262010-02-17SAS
 Al Jefferson262010-01-13MIN
 Joel Przybilla262008-03-22POR
 Andris Biedrins262008-01-27GSW
 Dwight Howard262006-04-15ORL
 Erick Dampier262005-01-29DAL
 Shaquille O'Neal*262004-03-21LAL
 Lorenzen Wright262001-11-04MEM
 Chris Webber262001-01-05SAC
 Jayson Williams261997-11-13NJN
 Ervin Johnson261997-04-19DEN
 Dennis Rodman*261997-01-10CHI
 Charles Barkley*261995-03-24PHO
 Dikembe Mutombo*261994-11-11DEN
 Dennis Rodman*261994-02-19SAS
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-11DET
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-09DET
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-08DET
 Patrick Ewing*261992-12-19NYK
 Dennis Rodman*261992-02-16DET
 Dennis Rodman*261992-02-06DET
 Charles Shackleford261990-02-20NJN
 Otis Thorpe261990-02-15HOU
 Charles Oakley261986-03-15CHI
80.Rudy Gobert252017-01-20UTA
 DeAndre Jordan252016-12-28LAC
 Hassan Whiteside252016-11-15MIA
 Bismack Biyombo252016-03-17TOR
 Andre Drummond252015-03-11DET
 Hassan Whiteside252015-03-04MIA
 Kenneth Faried252014-12-26DEN
 Tyson Chandler252014-11-26DAL
 J.J. Hickson252014-02-25DEN
 Anderson Varejao252014-01-02CLE
 LaMarcus Aldridge252013-12-12POR
 John Henson252013-04-10MIL
 Dwight Howard252012-03-13ORL
 Ersan Ilyasova252012-02-19MIL
 Dwight Howard252012-01-18ORL
 Zach Randolph252010-02-27MEM
 Marcus Camby252010-01-20LAC
 Dwight Howard252007-01-10ORL
 Emeka Okafor252006-12-29CHA
 Kevin Garnett252005-01-12MIN
 Erick Dampier252004-03-28GSW
 Kevin Garnett252003-12-05MIN
 Tim Duncan252003-02-01SAS
 Dikembe Mutombo*252000-02-18ATL
 Jamie Feick252000-01-20NJN
 Lorenzen Wright251999-03-11LAC
 Dennis Rodman*251997-12-23CHI
 Patrick Ewing*251997-02-23NYK
 Charles Barkley*251997-01-10HOU
 Jayson Williams251996-01-30NJN
 Dennis Rodman*251995-01-22SAS
 Dennis Rodman*251994-03-26SAS
 Olden Polynice251993-12-08DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-11-10SAS
 Shaquille O'Neal*251993-04-20ORL
 Kevin Willis251993-04-13ATL
 Kevin Willis251993-03-29ATL
 Dennis Rodman*251993-03-26DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-03-07DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-02-23DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-03-20DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-03-18DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-02-19DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-01-31DET
 Dennis Rodman*251991-12-13DET
 Jerome Lane251991-04-21DEN
 Larry Smith251991-02-16HOU
 Larry Smith251991-02-03HOU
 Roy Tarpley251990-04-01DAL
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251990-02-27HOU
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251989-12-17HOU
 Mark Eaton251989-03-15UTA
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251989-02-21HOU
 Mark Eaton251987-11-17UTA
 Charles Barkley*251987-03-24PHI
 Charles Barkley*251987-03-20PHI
 Artis Gilmore*251987-01-17SAS
 Robert Parish*251987-01-09BOS
 Charles Barkley*251986-03-30PHI
 Robert Parish*251986-03-08BOS
 Ralph Sampson*251985-12-26HOU
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WTF

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As with most things... it's complicated, but...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:17 am

We're missing a CLOSER!!! However, here are the main culprits.

1. Bradley sits front and center, especially in this game. Why is he playing in the 4th? Ish passes him the ball and he passes it right back, forcing Ish to be the guy taking deep 2's or 3's, and that's Reggie's game, not Ish.  Ish becomes the guy to take shots because after Bradley's fear of missing, which is real, Harris starts feeling the pressure, as did Kennard & Stanley. If Drummond wasn't converting so many of their misses, we would have been blown out.

2. SVG is doing is playing not to lose, but even worse, he can't adapt to his roster to save his life. Sparma nailed it when he said that he should have subbed in Galloway for Ish! You needed a shooter, especially if you're going to insist on playing a totally ineffective Bradley.

Drummond had a game that Lanier, Laimbeer or Big Ben would have been crying to have, he out shown all of them! This was a MONSTER performance by Drummond, and I don't say that lightly.

Wise, I agree about the 20/20 or close to it every night, but this performance was other worldly! Drummond on many occasions just wouldn't be denied, and his block of Golbert was a thing of beauty, and that game saving block of Mitchell was Big Ben like!

You're right, I'd give anything to get this level of rebounding and defense every night and I wouldn't complain if he scored a bit less.

The last reason we are losing is we need a PG, we're missing our flawed leader Reggie very badly when it comes time to close out games. Go back and see what I wrote before the season!

I said what we lose when we move BOTH KCP and Morris were closers, and that left only one in Reggie. now that Reggie is down, you can't lean on role players like Harris, who's the best of the rest. I won't put that on youngsters, it's too early to expect that they can close games regularly.
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AD

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:37 am

Wise:
"As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself."

I think it's mlive that reports no NBA player's put up these numbers since 1973-74 (or as long as recorded).

I'm not quite sure how I'd compare Drummond to Laimbeer and Wallace on the whole (I'd have him behind Lanier), but my instinct would be to acknowledge he's weaker in some ways (defensive positioning), but also better in certain respects (offensive rebounding).

I'll stick with being skeptical that he's the guy to lead the charge, but this was a historic night for him. Evidently no (Piston) center's been known to match him in the set of statistical categories where he exceled tonight. That doesn't tell the whole story, but it's quite something.


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SVG Need To Be Kicked In The Face

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:21 am

If Andre was trying to make a statement it needs to go far beyond this game.  As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself.   I'm always saying there's no reason he shouldn't be a consistent 20-20 guy every game.

Still I have issues about this performance especially if it was motivated solely on being snubbed as he thinks.  Why not be motivated by the desire to win or motivated by the fact that you have 125 million dollar deal.  Forget the points and rebounds I was more impressed by the 6 blocks another thing we should see on a more consistent basis as well.

I'm not trashing him I'm just being honest and keeping it in it's proper perspective.  Also he doesn't get that free pass Sparma of who he's playing with just my opinion.  Bill couldn't jump 2 inches but play smart tough position basketball, and had range from 3 point line to the paint, he was very capable of 20-20 nightly but he was on the floor with another rebounding demon (Worm).  While I could never expect 30 point out of Big Ben he was much in the manner of Rodman a Defensive Demon.    Andre doesn't have that It Factor, that extra thing that Bill and Ben had.  

If he plays like he did tonight for the remainder of the season especially the blocks, then I'll be convince he's arrived.  These numbers he had tonight are the same number he needed to put on Embiid after being punk that first game.   

In fairness though Andre didn't lose this game as usual his coach did.  Again I'll keep stressing my point on the number of 3's why they lose games like these.  SVG say it was the 20 TO's SMH,  I guess the bad shooting had nothing to do with it.  facepalm
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Utah

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:14 am

Andre with 30 and 24, HoF numbers, and HoF game. Complaint: it seems like a lot of his bounce passes inside have gone for TOs recently. Still, let's appreciate what we have in him. His game's still got serious flaws, but in a number of significant ways he's better than B. Wallace and Laimbeer. Those guys were part of dream ensemble casts (with a superstar added in on the Bad Boys); the present cast comes nowhere near those championship teams. But Andre does, the way he played tonight, and much of this season.

Noticing the line up at 89-82 (AD, Tobias, Ish, Stanley J, and Bradley), I wondered how they were going to create O. They didn't. Tolliver and Kennard (easily the only two + guys for the night, with Boban neutral) needed to be in there for SJ (moving Harris to SF) and Bradley. It came as no surprise that they sputtered. SVG fielded a related question, saying it was the best defensive unit. Possibly, although debatable (Tolliver's been pretty great on D most of the year). But it goes back to my complaint that SVG coaches to avoid failure too much: he's coaching not to lose, when he needed to keep the offensive pressure on, go for the win (how many football games have been blown with teams playing not to lose at the end?). I may even have switched in Galloway for Ish.

All credit to Spencer the other night, but that may have been a low % percentage shot for the win. This one, you could see coming. Utah's a solid team, but our (avoidable) collapse made for a terrible loss.
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Another Loss I Saw It Coming

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:49 pm

Oracle wrote:At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!

I'm not surprised one bit facepalm
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If you can't BLOW out a team like Utah...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 pm

At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!
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Mitchell plays like Bradley isn't even there!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:34 pm

Where is the effing defense???

Mitchell needs no screens or anything, he just goes around Bradley like he isn't even there!

Seconds left, and Drummond is keeping us in this game with his defense and offense!
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End of regulation, on to OT!!!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:23 pm

Drummond, this is the way you fight back if you think you've been dissed, you go out and have a GREAT game!

That's exactly what the big fella did, he filled up the stat sheet and was totally impressive on BOTH ends of the floor!

Ish made a fantastic defensive play in the 4th, but Kennard just couldn't hit the shot to win it!

Bradley is too scared to take a shot... please move this guy SVG!
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Stuff

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:28 pm

I hope this media whining about the alleged stop as well,  we all been around long enough to see what an All Star actually look like I mean really we had many over the past 20 years.  I can't think of one time that any of them didn't deserve being selected either by the fans or coaches this whining of Andre's is very disturbing to say the least.  

24 players get selected every year so every years someone feels like they've been snubbed and most don't go to twitter to whine like a little bitch about not getting selected.   You want to mad at someone be mad at yourself because you are the only reason you're sitting on the outside looking in.  Let Embiid take your spot when he publically punk you in the media then you lose 3 times to him SMH.  You got played and was too stupid to see it coming because you're a damn goof ball.

175 years in addition to the 60 years for the child.  Once you get to prison you might not make to 30 years.  I don't feel bad for you sir but its just sad that a you chose to take advantage of all those young girls.  I do think MSU should hold some accountability in this I'm just not sure to what extent it seems that someone should have know something.

Did the NFL really claim they fix games or was what I was watching was more fake/fabricate FB News?  We know refs blow calls, we know they secretly do make up calls.  Not saying games can't be fixed but it's kind of hard from a ref perspective seems more feasible and likely they a player could miss passes, drop balls, blown field goals, miss tackles.  I just think between instant replay, and challenge flags by coaches it would be a little difficult.   

SVG you too just shut up on the snub thing as well,  you know damn well he didn't deserve to go and the only reason you're speaking on it is because you bear some of blame why he didn't get selected.  In fact your so shady you probably didn't vote for him either.  Instead of pacifying him be truthful with him about why he was snubbed. 

Fire SVG Please
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