My Head Hurts Ugggh!!!

[WTF]

SVG was over hyped just like most things are when it comes to this team and yes players included.  While I was happy to see Joe go I was not at all happy with the arrival of SVG and I just as excited about his departure as I was with Joe's departure.

It's going to be real hard to be sold on anyone Gore bring in that's not name Zeke or Chauncey or have championship credentials already.  No more hyping and this tiresome wait and see ride we've been on since Flip was wrongly fired.  Zeke and Chauncey are about the only two that I kind blindly attach faith and hope on at this point.  I want to see people that are attached to better parts of this franchise's history and not just some latest trending hopeful that hasn't accomplished much.  Especially one that's been recently fired.  

We don't need people that are going to come in cuddling million dollars players and pleading with them tp perform at the level of their paychecks.  I'm not cutting Blake any slack he gets the same treatment I've been giving AD since he signed his deal.   At 35 million a season he need to be carrying us to finals like Bron carry the Cavs,  I'm tired of AD's inconsistency and I dam sure don't want to see less than inconsistent BS out of BG either.  I think Zeke with the right assistants can motivate this group.   I would love to see Zeke coaching and hiring Ewing, Sheed, Hill and Rip as his assistants.

[deusXango]

Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, I'm so tired of hearing about "the Great Van Gundy" that I don't know what to do. He's been relieved of his head scratching front office decision making duties and trying to get a square peg to fit in a round hole practices from the bench. I don't see how SVG could've straightened out in one more year what he took 4 years to build. The narrative in the minds of many is he was somehow cheated. No one but the fans have been cheated! The greatness I keep reading about wasn't witnessed in Detroit. "He left the franchise in better shape than he found it." No sh!t. I dare say most of the posters on this site could've done the same if allowed to throw away 1st round draft picks and go over the CAP, just to inspire hope of being an 8th seed playoff team...year after year!

I know SVG coached Dwight Howard, and that turned out ugly, but did he coach Shaquille O'Neal also? What are those players opinion of SVG as a coach? It's apparent that ownership doesn't "care" for Van Gundy, and 2nd tier players seem to love him but, how is he viewed by elite level big men who were at the peak of their powers when he coached them; would positive hope be relayed to Drummond and Griffin?

It's clear that as long as SVG was affiliated with the Pistons, Reggie Jackson would be looked to, to be the straw that stirred the drink (heaven forbid RJ should come up lame and unable to perform). Half of Van Gundy's failure to drive his team into the 8th seed, as a playoff team, have been blamed on Reggie Jackson's inability to perform. SVG hasn't signed FA players as much as he signed albatross's to hamstring this franchise. We got them and before their contracts are up, they have no value. We can't trade one of them for comparable value...damn shame.

Donavan Mitchell wouldn't have been given the same chance playing under SVG that he did playing for Quin Snyder, if for no other reason Van Gundy didn't take his opportunity to draft him; the day he drafted Luke Kennard, he downplayed his defensive abilities, and throughout the season he coached him as a defensive liability who was hurting the team when on the floor, which was far from the truth. He never made Henry Ellenson better, but did he in fact make him worse, like he did Stanley Johnson? Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, let's move on and try to forget he was here.

[BallinD]

No we don't want the 1st female NBA head coach, and no don't want anything not related to the great history of this franchise.  I don't like Vince Ellis he's weak as a writer/report/talking head.    This goes for all the local media that's being critical of SVG after the fact when they should have been critical from the start.

Does anybody else remember when Gores bought the team the he made a point of talking up and meeting Zeke and there was even some talk he might buy into the team a bit or get a spot in the hierarchy.  Well now is the time to put up or shut up.  Get some Piston DNA in here.  How hard can it be t figure out what it means to be Going to Work.  

I know Bad Boys is a fading memory and will never return to the NBA, but the combatative and competitive spirit, never-say-die attitude is transferable to today's NBA.  Look no further than Draymond Green and Rondo.  SJ may have a bit of it, and who knows if he still has enough to be coached up, though I get that this is now a "shooter's league."

With Hollywood Griffin, Weggie the broken tool, and Dre the One-trick-pony, how far that will take us is up in the air, but I think we have the talent and grit to at least be pliable clay in the hands of a real coach who can coach us up to at least be competitive, a la Casey.

Ponder this?  How far could Brad Stevens take this team?  How far would SVG have taken Boston.  If he folds with the loss of Weggie, what would he do losing Hayward, Smart and Kyrie!  Come on Gores, wake up from your long sleep.  Wakey-Wakey!?

[deusXango]

The Pistons wouldn't be a fit for Dwane Casey, but Becky Hammon, David Blatt, Mike Budenholzer or Jerry Stackhouse would be perfect? None of the recent mentioned (out of order) coaching candidates have the recent coaching record, SVG included, that Dwane Casey has, but he should be the last coach to be considered. Oh boy! Casey has never had the "beef" like Drummond and Griffin to anchor his front line in Toronto. He may not want RJ as one of his perimeter players but, Kennard and Bullock may surprise us all under Casey's coaching. The major objection against Casey is we don't have a President/GM in place and once we do get one on board, they may want to hire their own coach; what makes the most sense to acquire first, a coach or President/GM?

[WTF]

No we don't want the 1st female NBA head coach, and no don't want anything not related to the great history of this franchise.  I don't like Vince Ellis he's weak as a writer/report/talking head.    This goes for all the local media that's being critical of SVG after the fact when they should have been critical from the start.

[Oracle]

I LOVE everybody's take on this, and I can't say that anybody is wrong!

I think the general consensus is that we need some Pistons DNA up in this mother, and quick! I think another thing I see is that we want somebody who isn't afraid to trade a non-performer and shake the roster up. IMO, a coach is too close to the problem to be objective on what to do personnel wise, the GM generally has a better view of the situation.

Sucks that there are no games until Sunday... oh well, I think I see some paint peeling 

[deusXango]

"Billups has a very calm, buttoned down, professional demeanor that would serve him well in the front office. Let me put it this way, if he can handle Larry Brown screaming at him during playoff games, he can handle the stresses of being GM.

Zeke, OTOH, tends to fly off the handle and make crazy trades when stressed. At least he did for the Knicks. However, Zeke is a excellent judge of college talent and drafts well. Zeke's knowledge, along with Billups' calm demeanor would be a great combination for the Pistons."-Murph

There's only been two Pistons championship players that played their whole careers in Detroit; Joe Dumars and Isiah Thomas. It may not seem like much but, when it comes to Detroit Pistons DNA through and through, my money is on the Piston that knows only Detroit, it's fans, and the tough minded Pistons pride. Isiah is the greatest Piston that ever wore the red, white, and blue but, as mentioned, he's known to go off script; we don't need a president like that, GM perhaps, but not president. Although Chauncey didn't start here and is well traveled, Detroit is where he grew as a champion and come to know the Detroit love. Chauncey Billups is my choice for President of Operations because of his proven leadership abilities, albeit not in executive management, but a true leader none the less. I think the balance of Billups and Thomas could turn this cockamamie around much quicker and easier than most imagine. Billups can keep Gores "cool" and give him all the reassurances that the team is really in good hands while Thomas acquires the complimentary players that fit into a championship contending team.

The coach and coaching staff is yet to be determined but, it's nowhere near as important as getting our leadership in place. We need leadership that's not intimidated by players egos and we damn sure don't need leaders that "play favorites" when it comes to determining who's going to be on the team or not. Tough minded leadership that know what it takes to win it all.

[Murph]

IMO if we're subjected to another 5 seasons of similar BS then let take it old school and hire every Pistons Great we can.  At least that'll be entertainment in itself watching these greats on the sideline and running ****.  Bet the Palace sellout then, bet the team has an identity then,  here's the slogan for them "Bad Boys Goin To Work To Be Champions".  

Wise...I agree. If Gores wants to fill up LCA every night, he should hire Zeke, Laimbeer and Mahorn to coach, along with Billups as GM.

On Billups, my thinking is this: We are pretty locked into the roster due to the bad salaries, so there is not much to do anyway for the next couple of years. So Billups would get a year or two of on-the-job-training before he had to make any major decisions.

Also, Billups has a very calm, buttoned down, professional demeanor that would serve him well in the front office. Let me put it this way, if he can handle Larry Brown screaming at him during playoff games, he can handle the stresses of being GM.

Zeke, OTOH, tends to fly off the handle and make crazy trades when stressed. At least he did for the Knicks. However, Zeke is a excellent judge of college talent and drafts well. Zeke's knowledge, along with Billups' calm demeanor would be a great combination for the Pistons.

Please Mr. Gores...go out on a limb. You have nothing to lose, and you might just build a contender, while you fill up your arena.

[WTF]

This coming year we don't need or want any green GM, coach or president... just say NO to any rookies!

That leaves Zeke, Laimbeer and Mahorn, IMO.

Zeke is, again, IMO, the obvious candidate for GM. Zeke's eye for talent is damn near unmatched, only exceeded by the great Jerry West.

While Laims & Mahorn have experience, it's not at the NBA level, so if a better candidate is available, I'll just take Zeke and call it a day, letting him pick the next coach.

A rookie coach is not a good idea for a veteran team like this one, we need a coach that can immediately get the respect and attention of these players.

Well, that's my 2 cents...

I kind of feel that way but this thing is such a crap shot these days.  I'm leaning towards the experience factor but I'm okay with the candidate being green and fresh as long as they have ties to this organization with great success.   So I'm open to guys like CB, not coaching but in a GM role, theirs no doubt Zeke tops the list of all former Pistons players.  

I wouldn't object to Zeke as President, CB as GM and Laimbeer as Coach.   I'm also supportive of support roles on the coaching staff for guys like Ben and Sheed.   

Other than that I would love to give these 3 guys a shot also at coaching (Ewing, a return of Cheeks, or Woodson LB former assistant)  What I honestly don't want to see is some number crunching analytical ass that never played the game because they're less relative to players or the game itself.  No denying the importance of actually being there as a player.  Most of the good coaches actually played the game before coaching while there been a handful that never played they seem rare when it comes to NBA success as a coach.

Just a thought but I do in a way think CB has a slight advantage as far as being a coach because of the number good coaches he's played for.  IMO he's seen it all as far as playing for good coaches goes.   

In the end I just hope the hiring has in depth meaning and not just something pulled out of Arn's and Gore asses and forced down the throats of players and fans.  The media needs to be very mindful of keeping a eye on this and not be just Homers in reporting on this process or the new hire.

[Oracle]

This coming year we don't need or want any green GM, coach or president... just say NO to any rookies!

That leaves Zeke, Laimbeer and Mahorn, IMO.

Zeke is, again, IMO, the obvious candidate for GM. Zeke's eye for talent is damn near unmatched, only exceeded by the great Jerry West.

While Laims & Mahorn have experience, it's not at the NBA level, so if a better candidate is available, I'll just take Zeke and call it a day, letting him pick the next coach.

A rookie coach is not a good idea for a veteran team like this one, we need a coach that can immediately get the respect and attention of these players.

Well, that's my 2 cents...

[WTF]

If we were to dip into the college ranks for a coach I vote John Beilein as the next coach.  I really just want someone that has ties to this organization or at least the state of Michigan.  No more jump on the first shiny object that's trending.

While I'm one happy camper that SVG has seen his last days I'm not so eager to jump on the next coach that slides through here and start this cycle all over again of giving it 5 years to pan out.   We need to win now period the window is closing and we don't have another 5 year to play wait and see.  AD is gone when his deal is up,  BG is a big uncertainty for the next 4 season and we can't keep banking on RJ.   

IMO if we're subjected to another 5 seasons of similar BS then let take it old school and hire every Pistons Great we can.  At least that'll be entertainment in itself watching these greats on the sideline and running ****.  Bet the Palace sellout then, bet the team has an identity then,  here's the slogan for them "Bad Boys Goin To Work To Be Champions".  

[deusXango]

GM:  Chauncey Billups
Chauncey has NO front office experience, Isiah does. Popularity has gotten us into enough trouble.
Head Coach:  Isiah Thomas
Bill Laimbeer has long deserved a shot at coaching in the NBA, why not the Pistons? He has a record of turning things around.
Asst Coach:  Bill Laimbeer
Rick Mahorn is arguably the best defensive big man coach the league has never seen; if he can't get his weight down, Big Ben.
Asst Coach:  Rickie Mahorn
The diverse skill set, for a big man, is undeniable and my personal vote goes to Rasheed Wallace.
Big Man Coach:  Ben Wallace
I don't think we need a big man coach as much as we need a President and that's where Chauncey comes in, we also need a staff that has a place for Rip Hamilton, perpetual motion, relentless scorer. This crew could convince Arnie Kander to come out of retirement; we sorely need him back!.

This is not a criticism Murph, but just my 2-cents worth. I expect other posters to express their opinions on new leadership as this is a very stimulating subject you brought up and what better for us Pistons fans to debate right now?

[Murph]

Is this going to be another Warriors/Cavs NBA Finals for the 4th year in a row?    

Warriors in 6?

[Murph]

GM:  Chauncey Billups

Head Coach:  Isiah Thomas

Asst Coach:  Bill Laimbeer

Asst Coach:  Rickie Mahorn

Big Man Coach:  Ben Wallace

[Sparma]

Good talk by Vince Ellis at the freep, with Shawn Windsor. One point he made is that SVG might still be coaching if he'd given Kennard more of a chance, with the team playing better with him than without. He mentioned Stan's pulling Kennard after a minute. Saw Kennard developing into a good player, not a star. He added that Gores had a problem with Stan qua coach, not just as front office guy. He mentioned that some wondered if Stan's abrasive style could still work in the NBA. He emphasized that the Griffin trade was a Stan AND Gores decision. Strikingly, he said that maybe one person could do the job, but that Stan couldn't be that one person. He reiterated the problem of Stan overspending on okay FAs, like Leuer and Galloway, which left little room for roster flexibility [I think Windsor added, like when Reggie J went down]. Focused less on drafting problems, but added that SVG doesn't have a lot to show there after 4 years. Also injury woes. Repeatedly said he could see the Pistons winning 44-45 next year. Added more than once that the team's low ceiling makes for a legitimate gripe about SVG. Brought up Griffin's half joking complaint about the amount of practice in comparison with Doc Rivers, and a similar remark by Avery Bradley in relation to Brad Stevens [surprising].

They both seemed to give SVG credit for stabilizing the team, for changing the culture for the better, and for upgrading the roster in comparison with 4 years ago.

Gores came in for his fair share of the blame, moving to his fourth coach since 2011 (as I remember) with little success to show. They cast doubt on the perception that he's so removed, but rather focused on the largely crummy results since he's been in charge.

Asked about major trades, like of Reggie J, he said that he could see why the next management team might want to keep things about the same next year, apart from tinkering (not that there's much flexibility anyway). Accountability really comes into play once the new management team makes big moves [not really what I want to hear as Pistons fan, but maybe a realistic assessment].

He raised Stackhouse and Budenholzer as two strong candidates for coach. Seemed to issue a warning about Stack's intensity, that he'd done good work with young players, but that some (Griffin?) might take issue with his style.

I know that the Detroit press takes lots of flack (and Langlois richly deserves it with the propaganda smothering his insights), but I think we get some good coverage through Vince Ellis, Rod Beard, and John Niyo. Ellis is a friendly guy, but he doesn't mind telling it like it is. The guy at mlive who used to focus on the Pistons was also good.

SI's Michael Rosenberg, formerly of Detroit, had a good review of the situation. He seemed to cast shade on SVG's honesty concerning the eventual troubles in Miami and Orlando. But then, I also think he was the one to predict that we'd soon be hearing more about SVG's reservations about the Blake trade and maybe his reservations about drafting Kennard over Mitchell too. As I remember, it was he who added that ultimately SVG has been in charge, so needs to take responsibility for front office decisions.

Lots of good coverage, along with plenty of mediocre stuff too.

[Oracle]

No, I'm not talking about those two losers in Toronto, who are AGAIN bleeding from the Butt after getting bent over by LeBron.

These days they call it getting chippy as players once in a blue moon get in each others face and act like they want to win.

No, in a real rivalry Blood Must Flow... I give you Isiah Lord Thomas and the Bad Boys! Watch the blood flow...

[deusXango]

Get a damn GM in here and f@ck worrying about replacing SVG as coach...he wasn't all that as a coach for Detroit however, he was one helluva an excuse maker. Signing and sticking by Reggie Jackson as PG was ludicrous and going on record saying Jon Leuer was a starter in the NBA?! Get a GM who will make astute decisions and let's move past the SVG love!

Jerry Stackhouse will be worse than Stan Van Gundy as a HC.

[BallinD]

Tweet:


Bill Simmons

@BillSimmons
Dear Detroit,
Sorry about taking Kennard over Mitchell, overpaying Reggie Jackson, taking Stanley Johnson over getting four 1sts from Boston, ruining your salary cap with the Blake trade, and leaving you without a 2018 1st. I’m gonna go do TV, I’ll see you later.
—Thanks, SVG

7:51 AM - May 7, 2018

TNT Guys: Sir Charles, Kenny, Shaq: It's time to get Isiah Lord Thomas in the house.

[WTF]

I've been on point the vast majority of the season so why not take a shot on predicting we'll be keeping our pick this seasons.  Yes the odds are not in our favor but I just got a feeling.  Had this feeling since the day we gave up the pick something keep pulling at me that we're landing in the top 3.

Also Toronto is a joke not sure what's more sickening getting thumped by Bron or winning 39 games.  I can see losing but getting swept my goodness and as for the Sixer's SMH but that happens to young teams.

[Murph]

Firing SVG was a good first step. But of course it all depends on who the Pistons bring in as GM and head coach.

I would love to see Billups hired as GM. That might be a long shot though. I'm guessing Gores will go with someone more experienced. And then it's the GMs job to hire a head coach.

Keep the faith, Pistons fans. This is a great opportunity. You never know who the next Jack McClosky or Chuck Daly might be.

[Phil-Good]

This is my message to Gores.

Get this s.h.i.t together.

No more rush **** Jobs.

Stop pretending to be A NBA owner. BE ONE!

Trust the process!

Draft, develop, build cap space and hire A new, fresh, head coach and let him develop the talent.

No more games! No more Hollywood S.H.I.T

Build this s.h.i.t from the ground up! This will take years! Years! But when you win, the wait will be worth it.

[Oracle]

You're right, nobody knows, and I meant exactly what I said, MY answer would be NO, i.e. that's my opinion, I didn't say THE answer is no.

Having said that, the probability that SVG would win enough to get into the playoffs was awfully low, having failed 75% of the time, and that's being generous, because he's self destructed the last two seasons, making stunningly stupid roster and coaching decisions.

So while I didn't rule out that he could do it, because anything is possible, i.e. he gets smarter and more focused, I just looked at the odds and drew my own conclusion.

Oracle: "Sparma wonders if SVG could have got us to the playoffs, and my answer would have to be NO!"  That's fine, we see it differently.  As long as we both realize that neither of us knows what might have been.   That's part of what makes assessments of what happens (e.g., the impact of coaching, the impact of SVG leaving) tricky; there are implicit comparisons with what might have been that take us into the unknown.  Not that probabilistic judgments can't be made (e.g., if Koufax could have pitched in '67....) so maybe that's what you're saying.

[Sparma]

I've seen four reactions by Pistons players (the first 3 at detnews):

Reggie J says he's "stunned."  He provides the most detailed commentary, and I hear him as being genuinely distraught.  Uncertain times ahead for him.

Ish says that Stan was "really instrumental to my growth as a player."  He sounds truly grateful to Stan.

AD takes a moment to thank Stan for "everything" he's put into the team.   Here I become a bit skeptical.  Sounds pretty formal and generic.  (Earlier, there were reports that he and Griffin had met with Gores.  Also, I saw a report earlier (Wojo) about Stan's grating style getting to some players.)  

Griffin ("relayed by USA Today’s Andrew Joseph."): “He’s actually a very cool guy. Very nice guy. Funny. And actually genuinely cares about people. That’s kind of rare.” Sounds really positive. Although, of course, there's nothing positive about SVG's coaching there!

Lots of good, insightful, commentary, also on our forum.  Bill Simmons reminded us that the Pistons purportedly turned down four 1sts from Boston, opting to draft Stanley J at #8 instead.  Ugh.  If true that's a fireable offense, in retrospect at least and maybe even at the time.

[Sparma]

Oracle: "Sparma wonders if SVG could have got us to the playoffs, and my answer would have to be NO!" That's fine, we see it differently. As long as we both realize that neither of us knows what might have been. That's part of what makes assessments of what happens (e.g., the impact of coaching, the impact of SVG leaving) tricky; there are implicit comparisons with what might have been that take us into the unknown. Not that probabilistic judgments can't be made (e.g., if Koufax could have pitched in '67....) so maybe that's what you're saying.

[Oracle]

I posted yesterday that we needed to cut SVG loose, fully believing it wouldn't happen, then.... BOOM!

I find out today that Gores, for once, had the balls to dump that no coaching azz f**ker... WOW!

I don't see a down side dumping SVG, the talent is here to make the playoff run. Sparma wonders if SVG could have got us to the playoffs, and my answer would have to be NO! He had a playoff team at the start of the year, he had one last year until he re-inserted Reggie back into the lineup and lost the team over it!

Let's face it, SVG would have found a way to F**K up this coming season, he just hasn't thought of the excuse yet, and thankfully he won't get the chance.

Wise got it 100% right, Good Riddance! 

DX, shoes on feet, it makes no difference, SVG don't wear shoes, because they get in the way of him shooting himself in same!

This franchise will recover, and I see good days ahead, and DX had a fantastic idea!

Test the trade possibilities for Markell Fultz, as Philly is drunk in love with Ben Simmons now.

Get on the horn ASAP and look into making this happen!

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