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No Heart No Will No Chance

Post  WTF on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:27 pm

Oracle wrote:We're about to find out, because there's no reason not to go balls out and leave everything on the court!

SVG always complains that they don't play hard enough, and while effort is important, playing with extra focus and determination is also very important.

Focus on making the right plays, making harder cuts when your man's attention wavers, knowing game situations and reacting accordingly, and more... focus and determination requires less effort for a good outcome.

Let's see how much they want this, because if they do, they'll get it... coaching willing!

I'm not sure any of them have the heart and the handful that might have the heart aren't on SVG list of favorites.   I believe that both Ellenson and Kennard does coming from winning programs and staying 2 years in college.   

Sadly AD is still wildly inconsistent and doesn't so that type of leadership,  Blake hasn't been out of the 1st round of the playoffs and I always thought Nelson was a little soft.   

Don't think this team received enough of a hard knock life lesson that it has what it takes to overcome what's ahead of them.  More importantly SVG needs to lead this group in this stretch run but he's more likely to whine and complain than he is to motivated them.   Hard to will a team if you haven't been doing so from the beginning.  

I'm still comfortable with my 39 win prediction.  All these other teams either have coaches or players that will lead them and motivated the team into the playoffs.  All current coaches with teams seeded 1-8 in the East are far better coaches than SVG.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:37 pm

Oracle wrote:We're about to find out, because there's no reason not to go balls out and leave everything on the court!

SVG always complains that they don't play hard enough, and while effort is important, playing with extra focus and determination is also very important.

Focus on making the right plays, making harder cuts when your man's attention wavers, knowing game situations and reacting accordingly, and more... focus and determination requires less effort for a good outcome.

Let's see how much they want this, because if they do, they'll get it... coaching willing!

Oracle I am glad that you wrote this post today. I hope the players read it. However, players seem to be born with that gift of being able to show their spirit above all else on the court when it matters. This trait appears to not be very important in the eyes of our management team that decides on the players we get to see on the hardwood. In last year's draft there were two players that I had identified as players who play every game with HEART. Both were not picked until the 2nd round and both would really help the Pistons if Piston management did not have the habit of giving away our draft picks.

last season being that I live now in the West I was able to see in person two players who played at Oregon for perhaps the best college coach in basketball today, Dana Altman. Dillon Brooks and Tyler Dorsey were two fantastic basketball players for Oregon. They played all out all of the time on both offense and defense. Both were highly skilled shooters and play makers. They were the real deal which are players who come up with big plays on both offense and defense and are capable of hitting amazing shots at the end of games. If Oregon was behind in a game, those two players would kick themselves into a different gear somehow and bring their team back and win. Where were the pro scouts? What were they thinking? SVG was smug as hell thinking there were no quality players in the 2nd round. Both Dorsey and Brooks should have gone in the first round but all of the media is based on the East Coast and who can stay up past mid night to watch the PAC12? The other player that always brought his heart and sole was Lauri Markkanen. I couldn't believe his highly developed offensive skills when he arrived as an 18 year old guy from Finland. Lauri looked like a pro in his first game on offense. But then being he played with a below average big man, he jacked up his defensive game big time before the season was over. Now is an up and coming NBA star for Chicago. We missed out because our management didn't do what Mark Cuban is now doing with Dallas. We also missed out on the two players from Oregon who are both in their team's rotation and both hurt the Pistons in their last matchups with our players. The other guy I can think of who was off the radar and not even drafted is TJ McConnell who management decided to keep over Ish Smith. He plays with a huge heart and incredible mind.

I guess to have big success players have to have both HEART and an incredible mind to get to the top of the heap. We have too many current players who lack both. The blame rests with the owner and his management team. I leave you with this thought. Several years ago I attended a Arizona - Colorado game. Spencer Dinwiddie was Colorado's point guard. He was amazing as his team's leader on both offense and defense. Talk about HEART. That is what everyone who attended that game identified in Dinwiddie. The fans who attend games at Arizona identify with players if they are amazing even if they play for the opposing team. Everyone stood and clapped for Spencer Dinwiddie before the game was over. He was only a junior at the time. He ended up tearing his ACL otherwise would have been one of the top picks in the draft when he came out. I couldn't believe it when Stan Van Gundy drafted Spencer. I thought SVG was the smartest man on the planet. Then SVG lost himself in my opinion deciding on offering the Pistons another circus act with point guards who push the basketball and are ball dominate. SVG seemed to ignore all of those turnovers that type of point guard causes. And of course for some odd reason, SVG decided that it didn't matter if his point guards could play even average defense. In Dinwiddie the Pistons had a high basketball IQ two way point guard who was a very good defender as well. SVG had hit the jackpot but decided to roll the dice with a circus act featuring the pick and roll with AD and whoever would get the ball up court the fastest be it Brandon Jennings, Reggie Jackson or Ish Smith. When was the last time you ever saw Reggie Jackson did down deep and play hard core defense when his team was behind or needed a spark. Reggie could only give off sparks when he was dribbling and shooting low percentage shots. With that you get shoddy defense and a lot of turnovers. Both cause dysfunction and bad team chemistry. So all fingers point to SVG. He created this mess along with Tom Gores. We have no top tier point guard unless SVG thinks Butter Ball is that guy. It is time to trot out Nelson as the starting point guard for the Detroit Pistons. Are we in a time warp living in one of SVG's dreams? Nelson was the weak link in SVG's team at Orlando in my opinion. Our guards ate him up. But right now I do believe unless Buycks starts, everything depends on how Nelson can lead this Piston team. Maybe he can make sense out of SVG's offense and end the dysfunction. Maybe he will stay out of the paint when Griffin tries to penetrate and not drag his man down so that guy can help defend against Blake's moves.

And when thinking about HEART and the Pistons it is clear that everything depends on if AD brings his HEART to the arena for more than 6 minutes a game. AD needs to be all in and play like he has never played in his entire life. If he could flip the switch in his brain, the Pistons could do almost anything they want. AD could dominate but he doesn't because he has never known the feeling those great basketball players who play with HEART experience when they play basketball. Last season after the month of November, AD played with no heart. This year he has played for brief moments with fantastic energy and focus. Then he loses it in the next game. Mamma Drummond needs to cook up something special for her son and keep him on it for the rest of the season.

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Who on this team has any HEART???

Post  Oracle on Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:20 am

We're about to find out, because there's no reason not to go balls out and leave everything on the court!

SVG always complains that they don't play hard enough, and while effort is important, playing with extra focus and determination is also very important.

Focus on making the right plays, making harder cuts when your man's attention wavers, knowing game situations and reacting accordingly, and more... focus and determination requires less effort for a good outcome.

Let's see how much they want this, because if they do, they'll get it... coaching willing!
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Can't wait to see it... With a shout out to Detroit!!!

Post  Oracle on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:04 pm


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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:38 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:Nelson you are starting next game so great job of bulking up adding that extra fat you didn't have when I played you in Orlando. Nelson has been the guy SVG has had his eyes on all this time. It wasn't easy but Stan got his man.
Don you had me cracking up  lol lol lol lol  Visions of the Butter Ball Nelson has become is a laugher!!!

Now Don, come on and admit it! How much did you pay this guy to do this youtube video  lol  You can tell us, we won't rat you out!

I am down with Ku. I didn't see that play when both Ish and Andre were clogging up the paint but believe it did happen. You could only see that type of thing on a Stan Van Gundy team. While Spencer Dinwiddie keeps sharpening his point guard skill set on another team, SVG will keep looking at his options at point guard. Can you imagine making the kind of money SVG makes and not have secured a better option at point guard after all this time? SVG went out of his way to find the weakest point guard defenders over his tenure. What is up with that? Who would do such a thing? With AD still learning how to play defense it seems the Pistons always have at least two terrible defenders on the court at the same time. I would for sure prefer the old times when the Piston offense sputtered when Michael Curry and Ben Wallace were playing together in the starting unit. At least that team did play tough defense which is a thing at Michigan fans can identify with more. Since Billups was sacrificed and a good basketball team blown up prematurely, the Detroit Pistons have been laughed at, vomited on, and suffered other horrors of embarrassment after tons of money was squandered by two different brain trusts. And now it seems our starting point guard might be Butter Ball. Not Buycks who could knock down mid range jump shots and penetrate in the paint under control without the habit of dominating the basketball while playing better defense than any other point guard on the team. Buycks is untested unlike Butter Ball who has been a very dependable point guard for SVG in the past. Let us fly with Butter Ball and wait for the next video from Ku. Piston fans have a lot to be happy about. The last hope that SVG had in his pocket while laughing at all of our posts seems to have faded as Ballin has reported that Reggie's ankle is still a work in process meaning he is not ready. It was pretty silly to think that even if Reggie's ankle was good now that he could be effective as a starter. Reggie's competition at point guard are all in fantastic game shape. Reggie will take a month to get into proper game shape. He will come out of the gate fast and then crash land with fatigue after three NBA games. The Pistons have too few games left and too many away games to end up with more wins than losses.

It would be a good idea to follow Mark Cuban's advise he has given his team that it would be in Dallas best interest to lose now if only our Pistons' owner had not thrown in our number one pick. So full steam ahead as SVG plots his strategy in the coaches office with Butter Ball at his side. They have one more day after today to figure everything out. SVG is of course worried about things other than the point guard position.

I heard that Stan asks his dog for advise a lot when he gets confused that his 4 out and 1 in offense appears to cause bad team chemistry. We all know about his dog but SVG has never tells us what this creature suggests for improvement of the Piston team. Did the dog tell SVG to make that big trade for Butter Ball? None of us have a job has difficult as SVG. I cannot blame Stan for consulting with his dog because of the pressure he is under. Just tell us what the damn dog is saying please. I am getting anxious on pins and needles too. The odds of making the playoffs have to be around 15% now considering all of those away games ahead. Maybe the dog is suggesting that Blake take even more contested shots when the Piston team returns to action. Maybe the dog is suggesting to Stan who the Pistons should pick with their 2nd round pick next summer. Has the dog given up like Mark Cuban? Maybe the dog is telling our head coach to ask AD one more time to box out at least late in the game some of the time. I know the All Star excitement has caused a lot of fatigue but maybe the dog could get through to AD if he were allowed to attend practice. The dog could promise not to belch, pee or poop on the hardwood. No coach has ever been able to convince AD to screen out offensive opponents who crash the boards. The problem for the dog could be AD's response to the tough dog talk. Why should I do it damn you? I am a NBA All Star. Our highlight for the 2017-2018 season might just be the celebration that took place in every Piston basketball fans home when it was announced that I, AD. had been added to the team due to an unfortunate injury sustained by another player. I have done my part. Get off my back.

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Nope

Post  BallinD on Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:17 pm

If as reported last week he still cannot put all his weight on the ankle, has to run in the pool or low impact treadmill, it is unlikely he will be able to run and cut this week, let alone play in an NBA Game.  Plus, does SVG really want to shove him back into the starting lineup as he did last year, before he is ready, or will he ease him in? We really have no margin for error, but the season is pretty much done anyway unless you believe in Unicorns, and no we don't have one in our lineup!

If we need 16 wins, according to Grant Long, hard to see us getting it with 15 of the 24 games remaining on the road.  SVG and his flunkies screwed that up.  If he continues to trot out Ish and SJ in the starting lineup, providing NO SPACING for Blake and Dre, so our opponents will continue to pack the paint and stuff our moribund offense.  SVG needs to seriously figure a way out to get more shots for Bullock and better shots for Blake, IMO.  He should also seriously consider starting Galloway, Buycks or Jameer till Reggie gets back to energize the second unit and balance it.

Oracle wrote:His 8 weeks is basically up this week, and articles like these make me think his return could be as early as this week, because the pressure in on with only 24 games left, and 15 of those being on the road! Haven't won a road game since Jan 10 when we beat the juggernaut Brooklyn Nets.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/central-notes-oladipo-pistons-rotation-griffin.html wrote:Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy will likely go with a 10-man rotation once Reggie Jackson returns from his Grade 3 ankle sprain, according to Ansar Khan of MLive.com. 

Jackson would join a starting unit of Andre Drummond, Blake Griffin, Stanley Johnson and Reggie Bullock.

Ish Smith would return to his usual role as leader of the second unit with center Eric Moreland and forwards Anthony Tolliver and James Ennis getting steady minutes, Khan speculates. Luke Kennard and Langston Galloway would split time as the backup shooting guard, Khan adds.
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Will Reggie be back on Friday?

Post  Oracle on Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:35 am

His 8 weeks is basically up this week, and articles like these make me think his return could be as early as this week, because the pressure in on with only 24 games left, and 15 of those being on the road!
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/central-notes-oladipo-pistons-rotation-griffin.html wrote:Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy will likely go with a 10-man rotation once Reggie Jackson returns from his Grade 3 ankle sprain, according to Ansar Khan of MLive.com. 

Jackson would join a starting unit of Andre Drummond, Blake Griffin, Stanley Johnson and Reggie Bullock.

Ish Smith would return to his usual role as leader of the second unit with center Eric Moreland and forwards Anthony Tolliver and James Ennis getting steady minutes, Khan speculates. Luke Kennard and Langston Galloway would split time as the backup shooting guard, Khan adds.
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Don...

Post  Oracle on Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:32 am

Don wrote:Nelson you are starting next game so great job of bulking up adding that extra fat you didn't have when I played you in Orlando. Nelson has been the guy SVG has had his eyes on all this time. It wasn't easy but Stan got his man.
Don you had me cracking up  lol lol lol lol  Visions of the Butter Ball Nelson has become is a laugher!!!

Now Don, come on and admit it! How much did you pay this guy to do this youtube video  lol  You can tell us, we won't rat you out!
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Dinwiddie Trade By Dimwitted

Post  WTF on Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:44 pm

Dinwiddie so much reminded me of CB when we drafted him just a lot of his movement and the pace he played at seems like CB.  I wouldn't be surprised if Dinwiddie didn't pattern his game and style to that of CB's 

Trading Dinwiddie almost reminds me of when Joe traded away Affalo too soon.  It wasn't hard to see that Affalo would have great success in the league as well so in this regard SVG is as stupid as Joe.  

I'm not unhappy that we drafted Kennard I still think he can be special but the problem isn't him it's SVG use of him and the limited development time SVG gives him.  Take Kennard off that short leash and we might be talking about Kennard the way we talk about Mitchell.

Like I said this team even with SVG or a new coach is still 2 players away from contending but O do know why I picked them to win only 39 games and reason has been and will be because SVG is a stupid stubborn coach.  Put this same group of players under any of our past great coaches and they'll be consistently winning 50 games each season.   I can't say for all of our past coaches but I don't LB or Flip would have gotten rid of Dinwiddie and all would have found away to make Kennard more involved and effective.  

I will say this if SVG doesn't make real push to make the playoffs his as good as gone after this season (Yes I'm Hoping He's Fired) SVG is desperate so I see him forcing Jackson immediately into the starting rotation.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:57 pm

BallinD wrote:...When you'd rather watch Captain America Winter Soldier than the ASG, even though Dre is in it, and they're playing a bit of defense, it sucks as much as before and Dre is totally out of his element, as are traditional lumbering bigs. Sad!!

...When you have to wish for a high lottery pick and Coach to get fired to have any hope for a Pistons's future.

...When you just can't get that nasty taste out of your mouth when you watch a Pistons game most of the time, even when they stumble through a win.

...When you see a link to a laughable headline about what Dre needs to do to win ASG MVP.

...When you read that some fans still wouldn't be shocked if the team made a run to the ECF.  Whoooooo...hold the Kool Aid!  Not, not, not gonna happen with SVG on board.  Never say never, but I'll say never.  And yes it is sooooooo much more likely they miss the playoffs and get a 10-15 pick only  to give it to LAC.  Wow, and I thought Dumars was bad.  SVG is just bad in a different way.  All Bad.

I don't know anyone who watched the NBA All Star Game. Attended a party where the Olympics was the focus for those who watched television. None of the women knew anything about the NBA All Star game at this party featuring a lot of nurses. I asked all of them and they all said that they never watch an NBA game or why did the NBA schedule a game like that during the Olympics?? So my take on the All Star game is that this game is just for those who somehow make money in the NBA in some way. It is just a big convention like the Amway awards convention where the top sales agents are glorified. All of the nurses stated when asked if they knew Labron James that they had heard of his name but have never watched him play in a game. Some didn't know he played basketball. It seems that the NFL does have some female fans. Maybe just the wives of the players, coaches wives, girl friends, and daughters of coaches and players might know or attend some NBA games. And some female celebrities who have the big breast implants go to Laker games to show off if they get a front row seat. The NBA fan base is dwindling sports fans.

We foolish Piston fans should be learning something new or occupying our minds with something other than watching dull low IQ Piston basketball. But how can we get away from the Pistons if we read the newspaper sports section? This is what many of us found out that Tom Gores and SVG didn't want us to read.

It appears that Lauri Markkannen with the Bulls did well at the All star game as a rookie. He could have been a Piston if SVG and Tom Gores had played all the young players including D-League players from February until the end of the season. Instead SVG closed down all future players only meetings where the players assembled to blast the Pistons pick and roll offense featuring AD and RJ. The players other than AD and RJ wanted something new because they were tired of losing. But the owner and SVG shut future meetings down after AD had a cry and broke down during a late night phone call to someone in the Piston's ownership group. SVG shut it all down and then traded one of the leaders of the meeting to Boston over the summer. If the Pistons could have played the young players so they could be better prepared to play this season and then lost more games, the Pistons would have been in position to draft Lauri M. Who needs that young upstart shooting those accurate 3 point shots? We have Blake and no confusion relating to who the Pistons will have to pick in the first round.

Looks like Mitchell was showing off at the All Star game too. SVG could have drafted Mitchell instead of Kennard. Every Piston fan knew that Detroit's biggest weakness is the type of point guards SVG likes most. He loves ball dominate point guards who shoot the ball a lot and do not play effective defense. There was no way he was going to draft Mitchell to create problems relating to competition. SVG believes that he can create better team chemistry if he screens out any potentially gifted player who might show up his two big contract point guards.

Last but not least I read about Spencer Dinwiddie winning a skills event. Is that the same Spencer Dinwiddie who was another casualty of SVG because of the same reason why Stan didn't draft Mitchell? He didn't want Spencer around to confuse players like Stanley Johnson who hates playing with ball dominate point guards. I think that Pope also was confused as well because he played well when Dinwiddie did get on the court. Dinwiddie played well in every game he started as a Piston. He could have scored 50 points a game in those few games where he did start and still would have been given away for nothing by our fearless leader SVG and owner Tom Gores. Tom hates the thought of doing anything but run the pick and roll play featuring AD. They are close you know. That is a wonderful news item that gets played a lot. Yes Tom Gores and AD are close. Reggie Jackson knows that and makes sure AD gets a lot of touches. Tom Gores really likes that so RJ cannot be included in any future trades.

Now we have AD and BG guarding the paint but somehow I keep seeing that the paint is wide open when Detroit is on defense especially in the first half of games where both players need a lot of rest to prepare for the 2nd half. Please excuse my ignorance, I forgot that RJ is still injured. When he gets back Reggie Jackson will not only learn things up on offense but will show off his defensive skill set too. How can the Pistons miss winning it all this year? Who needs any draft picks? Who needs Spencer Dinwiddie, Donovan Mitchell or Lauri Markkanen?

Some Piston fans might have been surprised when before the trade deadline ended and Labron finished making his latest wish list to acquire the best players available and always get them, Labron didn't have any of our Pistons on his list. I'll bet that Tom Gores was very surprised that Cleveland was not interested in Blake Griffin's contract. And notice Labron refused to give up Cleveland's number one pick and got the cream of the crop including the point guard I wanted for the Pistons. You can't make this up Piston fans. This is our reality. We are screwed if we are stupid enough to care about the Pistons. The nurses at the party I attended were not affected at all about the NBA trade deadline and what happened before it ended.

Now the puzzling question that we are told to concentrate on until spring. "Are The Days Of Andre Drummond Missing All Star Games Over?" How about when will this owner be embarrassed enough to agree to sell the Detroit Pistons? Nobody is buying the smoke and Mirrors. SVG did not call the shots relating to the trade for Blake Griffin. SVG wanted to try to trade AD and RJ last season and last summer. The owner stood in the way. What else has the owner's group done that SVG is getting blamed for? Did the owners group insist on the 4 out 1 in offense so as to feature AD and RJ? No coach in his right mind would be doing that. SVG might be here just for the cash and is laughing in the coaches office while counting the money flow hoping the party will not end. SVG will occasionally leave the coaches office to find some potato chips and say "GO TEAM Go".  Yep that's right keep your posts ups Andre. RJ will be back soon. time for a break now. Practice is over. Defense looks great. Nelson you are starting next game so great job of bulking up adding that extra fat you didn't have when I played you in Orlando. Nelson has been the guy SVG has had his eyes on all this time. It wasn't easy but Stan got his man. No wonder SVG worked the phones so hard to give away Dinwiddie and pass on Mitchell. We are in good hands.

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Chinese Angry Reaction To JJ Redick ''CHINKS'' in Chinese New Year Video

Post  Oracle on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:00 pm

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You Know It's Bad

Post  BallinD on Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:34 pm

...When you'd rather watch Captain America Winter Soldier than the ASG, even though Dre is in it, and they're playing a bit of defense, it sucks as much as before and Dre is totally out of his element, as are traditional lumbering bigs. Sad!!

...When you have to wish for a high lottery pick and Coach to get fired to have any hope for a Pistons's future.

...When you just can't get that nasty taste out of your mouth when you watch a Pistons game most of the time, even when they stumble through a win.

...When you see a link to a laughable headline about what Dre needs to do to win ASG MVP.

...When you read that some fans still wouldn't be shocked if the team made a run to the ECF.  Whoooooo...hold the Kool Aid!  Not, not, not gonna happen with SVG on board.  Never say never, but I'll say never.  And yes it is sooooooo much more likely they miss the playoffs and get a 10-15 pick only  to give it to LAC.  Wow, and I thought Dumars was bad.  SVG is just bad in a different way.  All Bad.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:40 pm

Sparma wrote:The Booker/Mitchell/ Dinwiddie triple did hurt.  We all know about fishing stories about the one that got away, but we've got the three that got away.

As a committed fan, I feel stuck.  We've gone all in to max out performance now, but the team doesn't seem very good.  I still wouldn't be shocked if we peaked at the right time and made the conference finals, but odds are better that we'll miss the playoffs altogether.  They've got a tough stretch, then a West Coast trip.  I won't be surprised if they're all but mathematically eliminated by the end of that trip.  And then the future....   Little chance to improve unless Kennard, Stanley, and Ellenson pretty much max out potential.

I will say that the team's pretty interesting now.  But if we don't make the playoffs and are lack of resources for improvement sets in ... no fun ... for years.

Weird when the Lions seem like Detroit's best hope (as well as likely candidate for ongoing agony.)

The one that still kills me the most is Spencer Dinwiddie. This was the player SVG had around everyday but didn't know that he didn't know who is talented and who is not talented. SVG instead wanted ball dominate point guards. SVG is not a team orientated type of coach if that exists. I didn't know any existed but SVG is a guy who likes selfish ball dominate point guards as long as they push the basketball and create a lot of turnovers. SVG should be fired now for giving away Spencer Dinwiddie. Anyone can mess up in the draft. Nobody has a crystal ball. But when you actually have a tall athletic high basketball IQ point guard who can defend well and give him away so no competition for playing time would exist for SVG's chosen players, then that is pure evil. This is what I know. Stanley Johnson liked the way Spencer Dinwiddie played basketball Stanley and Spencer think the same way about what is most important. PLAY THE RIGHT WAY AND YOU HELP YOUR TEAM WIN. We have too many players who don't know that or don't care. Have you ever worked with another person who was in it for himself and screw everyone else? We have too many of those type individuals and SVG loves those guys. FIRE SVG AND HIS STAFF. Somebody buy out the owner too.

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Trifecta

Post  Sparma on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:05 pm

The Booker/Mitchell/ Dinwiddie triple did hurt. We all know about fishing stories about the one that got away, but we've got the three that got away.

As a committed fan, I feel stuck. We've gone all in to max out performance now, but the team doesn't seem very good. I still wouldn't be shocked if we peaked at the right time and made the conference finals, but odds are better that we'll miss the playoffs altogether. They've got a tough stretch, then a West Coast trip. I won't be surprised if they're all but mathematically eliminated by the end of that trip. And then the future.... Little chance to improve unless Kennard, Stanley, and Ellenson pretty much max out potential.

I will say that the team's pretty interesting now. But if we don't make the playoffs and are lack of resources for improvement sets in ... no fun ... for years.

Weird when the Lions seem like Detroit's best hope (as well as likely candidate for ongoing agony.)
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STUPID

Post  BallinD on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:58 pm

We all know the acronym: SVG: Stupid Van Gundy, and Stubborn Van Gundy is also appropriate for Old Yeller. Our old-school coach,a dinosaur who is going extinct due to his limited diet of Coney Islands, Philly Cheese steaks and Pizza with diet coke: and yes, it fries brain cells!

We're probably in the stretch run for the tenure of this old has been. For someone who reveres 3pt shooting so much, how could he pass on Booker. He has done a Dumars, and like Doc Rivers needs a redo on his positional responsibilities, or seriously just fired.

Oracle wrote:I'm going with STUPID!!! We passed on two amazing rising stars and we dumped a youngster way too soon. Sadly, SVG likely would have screwed them all up anyway!

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Snake Bit or Stupid??

Post  Oracle on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:06 pm

I'm going with STUPID!!! We passed on two amazing rising stars and we dumped a youngster way too soon. Sadly, SVG likely would have screwed them all up anyway!

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Ho Hum!!!!

Post  WTF on Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:57 pm

I was watching I guess an old clip of MJ and he was talking about paying for potential and how back in his day they actually had to earn their money on the court so they put in the time and effort to improve their game.   I wish this was still true today I find it real hard to respect a lot of these players.

I listen to Shaq comments about the Rondo and IT incident and that to went back to Old School thinking.  Shaq seemed to enjoy it and suggested that IT man up. We seem to pay far too much tribute to small accomplishments and this shows the disconnect of todays fans to a great NBA past, yes applaud IT for playing after the death of his sister but he was far from the first to do so as many players have endure losses during big moments our own Joe D for one yet we somehow think IT was an exception.

I'm really not interested in the ASG Weekend think I'll binge watch some Netflix
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Kidd Hill Webber

Post  WTF on Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:17 pm

I just love it that these guys are HOF'er now especially Chris Webber.    Only wish Chris would take the Fab Five to the induction ceremony with him that would be so sweet.  I'm sure all of them are happy for him and proud of this accomplishment come on Chris do it.
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Lack of concrete strategy for success long term should make all Michigan Piston fans point fingers directly at Tom Gores and SVG. They have set back the Pistons for many years to come

Post  cool breeze on Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:22 pm

First off I join all who are very happy the Timberwolves honored Flip. We should all remember the day when Joe Dumars fired Saunders. What a black day that moment was where Dumars acted like a coward first for not telling Chauncey Billips that he was traded and then firing our head coach Flip. This is when the slide started that has never really ended. The Pistons get a new owner who is in the entertainment business and brings his associates who all think they know everything there is to know about building a winning basketball team. Joe makes two bogus free agent signings after the Iverson fiasco that few teams were interested in and then gave them big contracts as well. Neither worked out at all. He makes the fatal trade for Brandon Jennings that no other NBA team wanted to sign. Yet Joe for because no reason is the best reason throws in Middleton. Dumars seemed to always try to reduce competition for playing time to protect his favorites. Maybe that was the reason but who really can make sense of that decision? Then enter SVG and his staff of knuckleheads. The rest is history where since Billups was traded the two different management teams have had a cavalier attitude regarding actually building a real basketball team through the draft. It seems both with Dumars leadership and SVG, the goal has been to create smoke and mirrors to fool Piston fans by either making trades or signing free agents that no other team is interested in adding to their teams. We get rejects and for some odd reason our management teams are completely incapable of negotiating properly when making those horrible free agent signings and trades. Somehow our GMs find it really easy to throw in either young developing players with promise or our draft picks. Meanwhile, all of the successful NBA teams who operate in small markets do the opposite. Now Phoenix like Philly might pull off a big win in this next draft. I believe the Pistons could have picked up Blake Griffin in an even swap for Tobias Harris. And that would have been a dumb decision by the Pistons in my opinion. The way I see it, Griffin's contract was insane. He is one play away from a career ending injury. That is based on the way Griffin plays basketball. He needs contact and has to mix it up in the paint on offense. Therefore, with his past injury history, Blake's contract is something nobody should want to touch. The Clippers had to be jumping up in the air after that trade. But to show just how dumb our management team is and our owner who drove the trade against the advise of SVG's staff, the owner was so anxious to get the deal done that he threw in our number one pick in next year's draft. We would have gotten a real basketball player so that bogus decision to needlessly throw in the number one pick will cost the Pistons big time in the future.

One final piece of evidence that points to the owner and SVG destroying the Piston franchise from within is what happened last season. I should include the players only meeting because when the player held that meeting they had it because some of the players wanted to win and make the playoffs but knew that could not happen the way Reggie Jackson was running the team. In fact this meeting also involved SVG and his stupid 4 out and 1 in point guard dominate offense too. Players wanted to change the offense and confront the head coach. Reggie Jackson was protected by SVG. SVG insisted that last year's team was AD and RJ's team. The meeting was held to set things straight that the rest of the players were sick and tired of that nonsense. They were insisting that RJ give up the basketball. The players were insisting on more movement, playing both sides of the court and for the point guards to stop freezing out some of the players in the offense.

The 2nd huge thing that happened and was caused by management was their decision not to play the rookies and younger players after it was known that the way the Piston had been playing there was no chance to make the playoffs. SVG says he will never tank. But other teams do not look at it like that. They play the young players and develop them if the hand writing is clearly on the wall that the team is going nowhere. And then they move up in draft status. Other teams also trade ineffective players for draft picks. The Pistons did neither with the full blessing of the owner Tom Gores. For instance, if the Pistons had lost just a few more games, they could easily have drafted Lauri Markkanen who as a rookie has proven himself to be a solid starter on the Bulls. Markkanen also would have fit the need of a power forward who can knock down the 3 point shot really well.

Fans need to keep talking about all the details on how Piston management and this owner have all been guilty in destroying any hope for a future championship within the next 10 years. Anyone who watches what is going on and cares about the Pistons has either stopped watching them or has become depressed knowing without draft picks there will be no hope for the Pistons do anything more than make the 8th spot in the playoffs. That is the goal of Tom Gores. SVG will be the next sacrifice. I am not happy with SVG's coaching or his trades. But Tom Gores and his executives are the real culprits that everyone needs to be aware of. They have no idea as to how to create a real NBA team.


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Truth

Post  BallinD on Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:43 am

WTF wrote:The Eye Test tells me that we're at least 2 players and coaching change away from contending forget all the numbers and analytics it's clearly a matter of players that fit.


It's daunting that we go out and trade away flexibility and future assets for a star, and still probably won't make the playoffs, still did not trade the right player (Weggie), and I know his value is on the low low. And oh I know, everybody will say it is the injury bug and that SVG is just unlucky, but we here know better.

Players that Fit: Few players will fit what SVG wants to do because he has no clue what that is. We have no philosophy, no team identity, no calling card. We're not Bad Boys, We don't Go To Work. We don't wear Teal, but maybe we should, or is that an insult to Stackhouse and G Hill.

What. In. The. He11 is Stupid Van Gundy trying to do here, except raise all our blood pressure, and his own, put players in position to fail, sacrificing them all on the altar of his stubborn ego and stupid schemes. Nobody Fits That! Not even Lebron or KD.

We would have players that fit well together, (which is what I think is part of what you mean), except with SVG's ragged rotations, propensity to play favorites and give former favorites DNP-CDs, and his refusal to run plays in the vein of the 2018 modern NBA. We have seen two consecutive years of Old Yeller sabotaging team chemistry with his yelling and fuming and ability to see reality only in hindsight and encouraging one and all to hoist three after three in a three-for-all leading to NBA oblivion.
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I Just Hate SVG

Post  WTF on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:35 pm

The Eye Test tells me that we're at least 2 players and coaching change away from contending forget all the numbers and analytics it's clearly a matter of players that fit.  

When I think about 2004 I'm always thinking about how well this group of players fitted even under 3 different coaches (Rick, Larry and Flip) The chemistry was so great that 3 different coaches, 3 different coaching philosophies and styles of coaching.   Three coaches 7 straight ECF and 2 NBA Finals.

I don't like SVG for a number of reasons but the main reason is that he never played at a major college or sniffed the pros as a player both times I think he was lucky to land in both Miami and then Orlando.  I think his good fortunes was player based and not a result of his great coaching only a hand full of non NBA players make great coaches.   It's not like SVG learned under great coaches before becoming a coach, he's not a teacher of the game and he's limited in his thinking process.   

I keep hearing that the game is a perimeter game now, but I can't imagine LB adapting, or Flip, or Chuck.  I couldn't see Jackson changing his offense to jack up more 3's,  I not sure if Pop or Riley would have sold all out to the idea of just jacking up 3's.   What I do know about all these coaches is they would have kept with their program and found away to beat a team like GS.  They would have done it with better defense!!!
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Sweet

Post  WTF on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:11 pm

Oracle wrote:Minnesota Timberwolves give Flip Saunders' name a place among rafters



I know he wasn't with us long but I kind of wish we could've have done something similar.  Considering how we went in the opposite direction after he was wrongly fired things haven't been right since.  Wish we had a coach half as smart as Flip was.  Sadly SVG might as well be Curry or Kuester and that might be saying too much.
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I get a little emotional...

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:50 pm

Minnesota Timberwolves give Flip Saunders' name a place among rafters

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BOBBY HURLEY DETROIT PISTONS NEW HEAD COACH - Hope some of you basketball fans watched the Arizona-ASU game last night featuring Dandre Ayton

Post  cool breeze on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:37 pm

"Curtain of Distraction" as ASU fans like to call it had Sean Miller look alike coming out of the curtain with a sweaty white dress shirt distract the foul shooter. They came out with fake bare butts mooning the foul shooters as well. Bobby Hurley has created a monster at ASU. What a tough place to play in if you are the opponent. Hurley is intense. His players play with a chip on their shoulders. He gets every ounce of life out of them. He does not watch the game. He is part of the game unlike SVG who seems unable to make quick game adjustments. The following is what Hurley said about Ayton.

"After competing against him twice, he may be the best big that I've seen in college, as a player and as a coach. In terms of future and his upside, he's just scratching the surface. It's hard to imagine what he'll be". Nobody has to question if Ayton is "engaged" in any game. He is being guarded by 3 players at times and yet was able to secure 8 offensive rebounds in the 2nd half of this last game. He has the quick feet and quick mind. He can pass out of a triple team or shoot an accurate 3 point shot. Being so young, his stamina might be the only thing that at times holds him back but not last night. Who would you pick for a teammate right now relating to this freshman college player or the seasoned 5 year experienced NBA All Star Andre Drummond. It is the mind that separates these two players.

Before arriving in college this fall, ESPN draft analysis stated Ayton entered Arizona with the following traits.
"He never boxes out".
"He doesn't always fun back on defense"
He doesn't always protect the rim the way you might hope"
"His body language is awful at times"
"He takes some awful shots"
"The other team scored whenever they wanted when he wa under the basket"
"Not sure how good his instincts are defensively"

Ayton has shown how coachable he really is so his upside in the NBA is off the charts. That is where AD has gone wrong. He learned nothing in college because he was at odds with his coaches. And he still remains a difficult player to help if you work with him in the NBA to eliminate simple bad habits like not boxing out. Meanwhile, every day Ayton is getting better and listening to instruction from his coaches. He loves being coached. He wants to become the best player possible. Bobby Hurley says he was as impressed with Ayton's durability as his numbers. "He doesn't get tired either" Hurley said after this last game. "We had him running around on the perimeter, running him around on ball screens. He holds his own away from the basket on defense. You can't push him away".

I only bring up Ayton and how much he has improved his game because I am tired of watching our starting center being so content with himself as a player. He is not interested in getting better. AD's big flaw is his mind. He remains to this day as a player who cannot accept critical coaching or self evaluation so he can break through barriers that only he has created. There is no reason whey AD cannot or will not screen out offensive players who are crashing the boards. There is no reason why AD cannot concentrate at a high level while playing inside the paint. Failing to quickly come out under control on shooters who pull up for a jump shot in the lane and blocking those shots instead of backing away like he always seems to do, is a clear indication that he is never going to be part of a winning team. He is capable of doing what Ayton is doing as a freshman in college. When the Pistons have a coach who does not have the communication skills or is afraid to confront a player who has the ear of the owner, then everything will remain the same. The Pistons will continue to dwell in the toilet.

What the Pistons need a a head coach like Bobby Hurley. His intensity and dedication to the game of basketball where playing all out the right way is the only way to play, is what we need to save this franchise. He brings in fans just to watch his crazy emotion during the games. There is no way any NBA owner could intimidate him like Tom Gores has done with SVG. SVG just wants to save his own ass and his job. SVG should realize that he is bound for the scrap heap soon because this owner is going to throw him under the bus regardless of how he interacts with the players this owner treats like little babies. Imagine Bobby Hurley becoming the Pistons new head coach. Would he tolerate players shuffling back on defense? Imagine who Hurley would pick as his assistant coaches. They would all be hard asses. This is what Detroit needs. We are tired of the Teal.

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SVG's comments about 2nd unit's play in the last game

Post  cool breeze on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:40 pm

Maybe SVG should be looking at himself to find some of the answers to why the 2nd unit gave up that big lead. His over weight out of shape point guard, Nelson led the way in creating dysfunction that started the slide into the gutter. But it was almost funny when an article came out the next day suggesting that perhaps Nelson should be the starter at point guard. The idea was that Nelson could get more out of our starters because he knows how to run an NBA team better than Smith. If he couldn't run the 2nd unit, then why would this writer suggest such a thing? Again people write things without actually watching game action. SVG instead should be looking at how his 2nd unit played before the bogus trades were made. Call me crazy but I still think that Buycks played really well in a lot of games. He can make shots, play effective defense and pass the basketball without turning the ball over. He is in good physical condition as well. Maybe being out of shape and over weight isn't a factor SVG thinks about when he inserts a new player into the rotation.

How do the players who were once in the rotation feel now about playing for SVG and being on this Piston team? Could they feel the coach has betrayed them and is trying to ruin their careers as they sit on the bench watching the new 2nd unit stink up the arena? Where is Moreland who is the one big man who at least gets back quickly on defense and prevents layups? He also is used as a screener and passer in the half court offense. He doesn't hold the basketball for 5 seconds trying to find his own shot when he is out of his comfort range like AD is doing now that the new system is in. What exactly is that system SVG has created and calls a half court offense? I would sit Nelson where he belongs until he loses 15 pounds. Play Buycks who for sure can out play Nelson. Use Ellenson if not Moreland as the back up center. End the idea of using Blake as the big man when AD is on the bench. Bench AD when he fails to get his butt back on defense and keep that same butt in the paint where he belongs on defense. T

A wise man once told me when I was a kid that "life is messy". Basketball is messy as well and SVG has now created a big mess with the players he has selected to be in his rotation system. If players are not playing hard, it is up to the coach to send them to the bench. Instead SVG talks about it to the press after the fact. He has to think quicker and make changes and identify the players who are causing the dysfunction. But if one of the players in the second unit (Nelson) is causing dysfunction by turning the ball over a lot, that causes SVG's world view of things to go off kilter. He cannot accept what everybody else is seeing. Just why did he not sent Nelson to the bench in the 4th quarter of this last game and bring in Buycks or Smith earlier? Please answer that question and be truthful SVG. During over parts of the last game if the coach sees the starting center out wondering out past the free throw line on defense guarding nobody but waiting to attempt a steal if a guard comes his way so he can try to get a steal and go coast to coast for a dunk but allows his man to sneak into the paint for a dunk himself, then isn't it is time to call that player out immediately by sending him to the bench regardless of who that player might be. This is especially true when the power forward, Blake Griffin is also outside the painted area guarding his man. No big man is inside the paint to play defense. Ish Smith instead is supposed to be responsible for interior defense according to the world view of SVG it appears. The head coach has the power to send players to the bench doesn't he? Maybe not according to the world view of the owner Tom Gores. That private line from the starting center to the owner is still active it appears. I really think that SVG is afraid to confront his highest paid players to force them to play the right way. If big men fail to run the court and are caught walking back on defense while that player's assigned man has already set up in the paint, then it is time to remove that player from the game. In Jr. High, High School, or college any coach would quickly see what is happening and replace that player. Who knows maybe that player has the flu.

Lack of trust shown by the coach to the bench players causes them to feel like they are not part of the team. When they see players on the floor who are faking it and not "engaged" in the game, then they lose respect for the coach and get depressed. How much longer must Ellenson sit on the bench? Why can't he at least play in the G-League SVG? SVG talks the talk but doesn't have the guts to walk the walk. But he knows that the owner has pet players who make calls at night criticizing the coach if he does call them out. Who is causing the dysfunction? Is it the owner or SVG? I can't tell. The owner should not have special relationships with the players. The players should not be able to tell the coach to keep his trap shut bragging that they will call Tom if the coach suggests anything the players don't like. I am referring to only one player who has that special relationship with the owner. This Piston team is dependent on a dysfunctional starting center. If AD will not give his team what they most need which is a monster paint protector fully engaged shot blocker all of the time he is on the court, then this team is doomed. The meaningless rebound stats and this bogus offensive game AD is trying to show off with now is killing the team.

SVG's own selection of players in the 2nd unit has caused that unit to play worse than any 2nd unit in the NBA. I go back to how this team played against Cleveland at home before the trade and how the team is playing now. In that game, the Pistons looked unified and everyone who played gave everything they had. The team looked like they were enjoying playing basketball too. Now new players have been inserted not because any of them with the exception of Griffin deserve it, but because management must now try to prop themselves up to show that they did a great job bringing in new players who were not really effective players on their previous team. The players who have been with our team all season long now are in the scrap yard. I would want to go down and play int he G-League and get away from both Tom Gores and SVG. I guess trying to make sense of the NBA today is impossible. It is truly a fake game this owner is trying to sell Michigan basketball fans. Snake oil and smoke and mirrors has not worked Mr. Owner and SVG. The arena is empty. Fans have walked away. Better go to the schools and give away free tickets and food now.

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