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Don...

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:14 pm

Don wrote:Sorry Murph. I didn't read your post clearly. I am the fool and stand corrected. My memories from watching our dysfunctional Piston team for too long has caused so much bitterness within me that I cannot write much without an angry tone.
.....
All of my close friends who used to be Piston fans haven't followed the Pistons since Knight and Middleton were traded to the Bucks for Brandon Jennings.
Don, that's a refreshingly honest admission, and greatly appreciated.

It explains a lot and it's totally understandable. I too almost lost it when that trade went down, it made so little sense to me to give up on such young talent.

For me that was just the start of more silly moves that I thought would end with SVG, but the dysfunction continues. BTW, I was on the record as skeptical of the Josh Smith move as well.

I hope you don't let that anger stop you from having hope. This team is in trouble and needs fans like you to stand by it and demand better, your voice may be more important that you think right now.

Anyway, thanks for explaining your feelings, I think we can all respect that, I know I do!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:58 pm

Murph wrote:So Don, your theory is that Drummond is calling the shots?  Drummond calls Gores on how to run the offense, who then calls Van Gundy?  That's your theory?

Now I like Andre, both as a player and a person.  He's good natured, and the rare NBA star who doesn't have a scowl on his face all the time.   Drummond is a great guy, but he obviously isn't the brightest bulb on the porch.  You are giving him way too much credit.


And second, you wrote:

"What is ever more funny is Murph's post today about AD and his defense. Murph either has never played on an organized team in his life or he has never really watched many Piston games even this season where during certain moments of games AD actually did show some interest in playing defense. If Moreland had AD's body he would be a defensive monster."

I just stated in my post that I have never played an organized game of basketball in my life.  I could not have been more clear.  

And I didn't write it.  I copied and pasted it from an article by Joseph Sinke on the news feed.  Again, I could not have been more clear about that.

And the point is, Moreland doesn't have Drummond's body, Drummond does.



Drummond Derangement Syndrome is real, and Don suffers from it.

Sorry Murph. I didn't read your post clearly. I am the fool and stand corrected. My memories from watching our dysfunctional Piston team for too long has caused so much bitterness within me that I cannot write much without an angry tone. Maybe I give AD too much credit but there have been way too many signs that AD gets what he wants which I compared previously to kids who want candy but should not be allowed to eat candy an hour before dinner. AD continues to get his candy from the owner at the wrong time. Having played organized ball or not shouldn't matter if a person has watched as many games as some of have done that involve the Pistons so I apologies to you for making that statement too

This was my last season following the Pistons. I have been a lifetime fan since my Father showed me film of George Yardley as a small kid. All of my close friends who used to be Piston fans haven't followed the Pistons since Knight and Middleton were traded to the Bucks for Brandon Jennings. There is nothing left to say other than the Pistons under this current owner or since the Billups trade, our Pistons have had the label throughout the league as being the lowest basketball IQ team. They don't just lose. The Pistons lose in a dumb way say like that Whiteside tip in over AD where all AD had to do is think about knowing where Whiteside was on the floor and then boxing him out and the Pistons as dysfunctional as they were at the time last season could have won that game and still had a chance to play the next game with an opportunity to make the playoffs. Over the years since Billups was traded how many times did the Pistons owner willingly give up our number one pick in the draft? We lost it to rid the team of Ben Gordon's contract. We lost another one this year to the Clippers. The management of both teams are still laughing at how dumb the Piston leadership became. They are an easy mark. Everyone knows it.

Smart ownership looks for smart players not low basketball IQ players who have demonstrated a weak work ethic. It was only fitting that Rondo hit that baseline 3 point shot last night at the end of the game. During that one possession Anthony Davis led team was able to fight until they secured every loose ball before that shot was even attempted. How many times has Rondo been available if only management, owner and AD would agree and break up the bond between AD and RJ?

Murph but did you read the article this past week about the coming meeting between Tom Gores and SVG? In that article like many others that I have read, the author states that Tom Gores advised that he will consult with AD before that meeting takes place. AD didn't want any more player only meetings. The message man who has no real power to run anything and is fine with it ( SVG $$$ show me the money and I will do what you say coach) sent his message as a warning to the rest of the chumps who only wanted to end getting blown out in the first quarter which had become the norm starting in January in the previous season. You could clearly see that the team chemistry fell into the sewer after SVG made that announcement. AD didn't like what was said in that meeting. The player who organized the meeting was Marcus Morris. He is blunt and came down hard on our want to be All Star point guard and his buddy, All Star add on AD. Both AD and RJ are good men and nice guys who are great off the court. But neither could ever be classified as serious basketball players who strive to play the right way. Morris caused trouble when he was playing with his brother on the Suns but both Morris brothers know how to play basketball unlike Reggie and Andre. Marcus hated playing basketball with losers last year and might have gone over board in the players only meeting. Morris has been the star player on the Celtic team in the first two games of the series with the Bucks. Reggie Jackson couldn't have made the rotation on either team.

I will stand by my last thoughts about the current state of the Detroit Pistons. They suck and are being led by idiots. The only way to get the team starting in the right direction is to trade Andre Drummond this summer before the draft. He is the only player on the Pistons who could bring them a serious basketball player who might become a top tier player at his position. We have nobody at any position who is the best player at his position. But the owner will move forward giving another year to SVG who is doing a great job of doing what he is told to do plus the owner has to pay him if he is fired. Then the beat will go on regarding the Big Three with Reggie Jackson feeding the two All Stars or shooting it himself while the rest of the chumps stand in their positions and watch the Big Three. After next season, the owner will announce it is time to move on and will hire a new front office and coaching staff. He will also say it is time to find a new point guard as Reggie's contract expires. But whatever happens, this bond between the owner and AD will not die. The dysfunction will continue for years to come. That is what shows up in my crystal ball. I am tired of looking at it so will put it away now and maybe pick up my interest if this owner sells the team or a spat is created between the All Star and team owner. This is a soap opera and nothing more. The Pistons are lost in space.

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Post  Murph on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:38 pm

So Don, your theory is that Drummond is calling the shots?  Drummond calls Gores on how to run the offense, who then calls Van Gundy?  That's your theory?

Now I like Andre, both as a player and a person.  He's good natured, and the rare NBA star who doesn't have a scowl on his face all the time.   Drummond is a great guy, but he obviously isn't the brightest bulb on the porch.  You are giving him way too much credit.


And second, you wrote:

"What is ever more funny is Murph's post today about AD and his defense. Murph either has never played on an organized team in his life or he has never really watched many Piston games even this season where during certain moments of games AD actually did show some interest in playing defense. If Moreland had AD's body he would be a defensive monster."

I just stated in my post that I have never played an organized game of basketball in my life.  I could not have been more clear.  

And I didn't write it.  I copied and pasted it from an article by Joseph Sinke on the news feed.  Again, I could not have been more clear about that.

And the point is, Moreland doesn't have Drummond's body, Drummond does.



Drummond Derangement Syndrome is real, and Don suffers from it.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:40 pm

BallinD wrote:Our coach the panic junkie, operates out of fear of what could go wrong, rather than what could work...THUS, he chokes on opportunities, avoids creativity like the plague, ridicules and misuses prospects seeking to be coached up, and rigidly refuses to swap out his game plan and rotation, even when it is obvious to all (but him) that it is failing.  We should have known how STUPID he was when he chose to coach and GM the Pistons vs coach the Warriors?!?!  Nuff said!

Shout out to former Pistons coach Alvin Gentry, who lost Demarcus Cousins for the season (Weggie anyone) and is coaching up his team to the second round against a good Blazers team.  


Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed.  I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces.  Evidently not everyone agrees.  Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base.  And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end.  Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor.  Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man.  Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside.  Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside.  But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach.  Sheed provided a striking example.
What you say is ONLY true if the coach and management allows it!

Big difference, coaches have the influence and choice, players don't! I do agree it's a complex mix, but the rules of engagement are crystal clear.

Somebody needs to pass that information to Don, because if you have the DNA, but get denied from showing how much of it you have, well, that's how you get the Stanley Johnson's, Luke Kennard's, Henry Ellison's and a whole host of players that get stiffed by horrible coaching. But then again, Don believes these guys don't have that DNA.

More disinformation Oracle. You have slipped again. I was the poster who pointed out why Pope, Johnson and the rest could not develop in the dysfunctional offensive system along with several other posters who don't like the 4 out 1 in when you do not have elite players playing the key positions. Forcing 2 guards and small forwards to stand beyond the 3 point line on the baseline with no hope of ever touching the ball while the point guard dribbles around trying to create hopefully for the All Star center will create many casualties and slow development of promising players. But where some of you go wrong is blaming the coach. The team is run by Tom Gores not SVG. Tom Gores gets his marching orders from Andre Drummond. Who do you like AD? I like Reggie Jackson. He gets me the ball. I like the pick and roll because I like to play offense. This has gone on since Pope arrived. What was Pope supposed to offer Tom Gores team? He was supposed to be a decoy on offense and play really good defense. That is what the owner wanted out of him and that is what SVG directed Pope to do. The same is true for Stanley Johnson. Tom Gores wants to create an All Star or two All Star players. Those players were supposed to be AD and RJ. That is what we got and now Blake Griffin is somehow supposed to fit in with this nonsense. Oracle if you read the sports reporters comments that have been placed in articles now for several years you would know that Tom Gores decides everything based on how it will affect Andre Drummond. AD has that hot line where he can call the owner whenever he gets a new idea.

What is ever more funny is Murph's post today about AD and his defense. Murph either has never played on an organized team in his life or he has never really watched many Piston games even this season where during certain moments of games AD actually did show some interest in playing defense. If Moreland had AD's body he would be a defensive monster. Moreland knows what opposing teams are trying to do and moves accordingly. That is a concept that AD has never contemplated in his life. AD is a part time defender who if he had a good basketball mind could be that monster defender the Pistons have needed. But this season like every season before since he arrived in Piston land. AD is very selective as to when he exhibits effort on defense. AD wants to score. He hates playing defense. Every coach AD has had knows that. Murph somehow never watched AD start many games giving up layups by opposing players. If AD is such a great defender whey does Anthony Davis completely destroy him on every meeting? Anthony Davis has his number along with every other average to above average NBA starting center. But "group think" continues on where it is in stone that AD is the future of the franchise. He is the most important player on the team. We must make things good for AD. Meanwhile I believe that it doesn't matter who the Piston coach might be. The result will be the same or that new coach will be fired. The Pistons will always be a lame offensive team and poor defensive team when the game is on the line because everything is centered around AD who has never been known to be a high basketball IQ player in his entire life. What have have seen with the Pistons since he arrived is a low basketball IQ with AD being perhaps the the slowest player on the team relating to having quick recognition skills on defense. He still doesn't know when to switch or to think quickly enough to box out. But of course he is an outstanding defensive player as Murph points out. I hate watching the Pistons in this era of AD. They will never win crap and everyone who watches knows it. As far as the other players are concerned who get burned by SVG because of the pick and roll offense he is ordered to run by the owner, it will be up to them to find a way to get either traded or move on after their contracts expire. I am sure that is what will happen with Johnson and any other sane young player who has been stuck on this team. But posters will continue on in another 2 years blaming the new coach as we either watch Reggie Jackson dribble around looking for his shot or looking for a shot for AD or another point guard like Jackson doing the same thing. AD should be just another player on the team and be forced to earn his pay check on the defensive end of the floor and be engaged all of the time. But that is not in his nature. He is a part time defender who is glorified even when his keeps on losing. This is AD's team. He is the captain. That should scare anyone.

It is time to move on. I am moving on and will watch the Suns next season. They have a smart owner and a really good GM who knows that you must build a team with smart high basketball IQ players who have a history of knowing what it takes to win. You can continue on with the "group think" that the owner creates for you. You can keep on blaming whoever the coach might be. I am not a fan of SVG but know that no coach in their right mind would use the offense he has used and the same key players he has lost with for this long unless he has been instructed to do so by the owner. Who wouldn't want to make $7 million dollars a year. All you have to do is follow orders from AD who tells TG what he wants. Your small kid wants to eat candy before dinner. Do you give him candy? Don't worry Oracle and Murph you won't have to read any of my nonsense again about the Pistons. Maybe I will write something about the current playoff teams who are fun to watch. Is there any Piston fan out there with the exception of Murph or Oracle who thinks it is fun to watch the Pistons with AD running the show. The blind leading the blind off the cliff. That is what has happened for the last 5 years.

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AD

Post  Murph on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:04 am

There's a good article written by Joseph Sinke, praising Drummond as our MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.  Having never played an organized game of basketball in my life, Sinke certainly sums up Drummond's season much better than I ever could:

Most Valuable Player: Andre Drummond

Yeah, this one wasn't hard. Tobias Harris and Blake Griffin would've been worth some consideration, hadn't been traded, but neither was there all season (Griffin should have a good chance for this award next year). The only other real option would've been Reggie Jackson, but he missed a ton of time injured, which pretty much left Drummond as the only realistic option. If you wanted to get goofy, I guess you could say "The Pistons starting power forwards," but that is too much of a stretch. Once Blake Griffin got going, you could argue for him, but other than that, there was no time where Drummond was not the best player on the team.

In the end, 15 points, 16 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.6 blocks, and a true shooting percentage of 55.5% is an almost comical stat-line. Throw in that he figured out his free throws, finishing the year shooting 60.5% at the line, and you have a great season for Drummond. It is too bad that the team around him fell apart, but this was a great year for Drummond, who improved in pretty much every area.

Defensive Player of the Year: Andre Drummond

This was a two-horse race the entire season between Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond. Stanley Johnson improved his defensive game to where he fully belongs among the league's premier all-around defensive wrecking balls, but he just doesn't top Drummond's overall value. Drummond blitzed pick and rolls, averaged over three "Stocks" (steals+blocks) per game, stopped jumping for blocks he had no chance at, got out of position way less and didn't get dominated by Jonas Valanciunas. Oh yeah, Andre Drummond is also the greatest rebounder to ever live, so that's pretty nice, too. Johnson and Drummond formed the backbone of a Pistons defense that will finish the season right around 10th in efficiency. Johnson was the only real option to fill the big wing stopper role, which the Pistons desperately needed. Still, Drummond's defensive prowess was more impressive, which is why he got the nod here. Special shouts to Eric Moreland, who anchored a great defensive bench mob all season, but he didn't play enough minutes to warrant legitimate consideration.


Oracle, I think it says it all that KCP had the best season of his career, as soon as he got away from Van Gundy.  SVG coaches our players down, not up. He's the anti-Brad Stevens.
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Ballin & KCP

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:49 am

@Ballin: I agree Gentry is doing an amazing job, going up 2-0 on the #3 seed in the playoffs. Some would say it's because he has a true superstar level talent, ans while that's true, you do have to coach a team up to get those types of results! Unless you have overwhelming talent, you need a coach that knows how to use every bit of talent available to squeeze out the win. The absolute best I've ever seen do that was Larry Brown.

While Pop always had better talented teams, LB took over a lot of slugs(see Clippers) and instantly made them competitive. He got every ounce of performance through coaching. In fact, he was the coach that showed and convinced me of the power of that position.

BTW, Kawhi Leonard is VERY available and likely will only be traded to an eastern conference team by Pop, but he's dangerously getting close to Avery Bradley injury territory. In short, he's vastly talented, but he's risky without someone like Arnie around to keep him healthy!

KCP: Well the season is over, and I was wondering how KCP did with the Lakers. I didn't expect a lot once I saw how the Lakers were so high on their young core and looked at KCP as a vehicle to just help out their future. It's a tough situation because he was forced to defer to those youngsters and it took quite a while for him to mesh with them. However, it looks like KCP had a good, but not great year, where he did get better in a few categories.
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/180415-player-capsule-kentavious-caldwell-pope wrote:2018 Player Capsule: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Season Summary
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope provided the shooting and defense that was expected when the Lakers inked him to a one-year contract.

He shot 42.6 percent from the field and 38.3 percent on 3-pointers — both of which were career-highs — and was one of the Lakers’ best players post-All-Star Break.

During that last leg of the season, he hit 42.3 percent of his 3-point attempts (63-of-149), which was the NBA’s fifth-best clip among those who attempted at least 125 triples.

He also unexpectedly led the Lakers’ rebounding charge once Josh Hart went down due to injury.

Caldwell-Pope — who never averaged even four boards in his first four seasons — finished the season grabbing 5.2 rebounds per game. Only Jimmy Butler (5.3) had more among shooting guards.

KCP was also a efficient attacking the rim, shooting 66.7 percent in the restricted area.

On the other side of the court, his active off-ball defense and reliable man-to-man coverage was key to the Lakers making the jump from 30th in defensive efficiency last year to 12th this season.
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Speaking of Coaching

Post  BallinD on Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:22 am

Our coach the panic junkie, operates out of fear of what could go wrong, rather than what could work...THUS, he chokes on opportunities, avoids creativity like the plague, ridicules and misuses prospects seeking to be coached up, and rigidly refuses to swap out his game plan and rotation, even when it is obvious to all (but him) that it is failing.  We should have known how STUPID he was when he chose to coach and GM the Pistons vs coach the Warriors?!?!  Nuff said!

Shout out to former Pistons coach Alvin Gentry, who lost Demarcus Cousins for the season (Weggie anyone) and is coaching up his team to the second round against a good Blazers team.  


Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed.  I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces.  Evidently not everyone agrees.  Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base.  And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end.  Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor.  Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man.  Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside.  Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside.  But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach.  Sheed provided a striking example.
What you say is ONLY true if the coach and management allows it!

Big difference, coaches have the influence and choice, players don't! I do agree it's a complex mix, but the rules of engagement are crystal clear.

Somebody needs to pass that information to Don, because if you have the DNA, but get denied from showing how much of it you have, well, that's how you get the Stanley Johnson's, Luke Kennard's, Henry Ellison's and a whole host of players that get stiffed by horrible coaching. But then again, Don believes these guys don't have that DNA.
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Sparma: The single most important thing you missed?

Post  Oracle on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:19 pm

Sparma wrote:Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed.  I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces.  Evidently not everyone agrees.  Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base.  And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end.  Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor.  Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man.  Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside.  Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside.  But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach.  Sheed provided a striking example.
What you say is ONLY true if the coach and management allows it!

Big difference, coaches have the influence and choice, players don't! I do agree it's a complex mix, but the rules of engagement are crystal clear.

Somebody needs to pass that information to Don, because if you have the DNA, but get denied from showing how much of it you have, well, that's how you get the Stanley Johnson's, Luke Kennard's, Henry Ellison's and a whole host of players that get stiffed by horrible coaching. But then again, Don believes these guys don't have that DNA.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:16 pm

BallinD wrote:He said Pistons might as well trade the 2nd round pick because it won't be worth anything: Lazy Thinking!??!
1. Nikola Jokic drafted 41st in the second round.
2. Anybody remember Agent Zero, Gilbert Arenas

#60 C.J. Miles
#59 Allen Crabbe
#58 Ersan Ilyasova
#57 Cuttino Mobley
#56 Bojan Bogdanovic
#55 P.J. Tucker
#54 Jordan Clarkson
#53 Gerald Wilkins
#52 Rafer Alston
#51 Patty Mills
#50 Matt Barnes
#49 Zaza Pachulia
#48 Glen Davis
#47 Anderson Varejao
#46 P.J. Brown
#45 Vinny Del Negro
#44 Luis Scola
#43 Chandler Parsons
#42 Malcolm Brogdon
#41 Hot Rod Williams
#40 Jae Crowder
#39 Steve Kerr
#38 Vernon Maxwell
#37 Trevor Ariza
#36 Khris Middleton
#35 Marcin Gortat
#34 Lance Stephenson
#33 Lou Williams
#32 Danny Green
#31 Eddie Johnson

He is a professional NBA reporter?

WTF wrote:I keep saying our local media/talking heads are special but not in a good way.  I'm okay with opinion as long as it isn't a dumb opinion and you've done your homework before you speak. 


Pistons Mailbag wrote:As for Billups, it’s a move that would excite the fan base because it’s a recognizable name — but what are his credentials, beyond being an ESPN analyst? He was a candidate for the Cavaliers’ GM job last year, but he has no front-office experience. The last time a Detroit team went out and hired someone from the press box in the front office, it was Matt Millen. Billups actually could work out, but there are no guarantees there.

Everyone doesn't need a platform to speak.  How could this idiot mention Matt Millen as an example Billups coming from the broadcast booth has merit that it could work.  Really football and basketball not the same and really what happened the last time we hired an inexperience GM with no previous experience? I believe 2004 did.  I still think Joe was lucky but nonetheless Sherlock do you homework.

Maybe this writer is having lunch with SVG and the Piston's owner. Our Piston leadership somehow hates the thought of building a team through the draft. I know a few players who are not even listed on any of the draft boards who could end up having great futures in the NBA. Alonzo Trier does not appear on NBADRAFTNET. Maybe he has decided to return for his final year of eligibility but he plays both guard spots and might become an outstanding NBA scorer. His current weakness is his defense but somehow Tom Gores is OK with the way Reggie Jackson plays defense. Who can be worse? Every college player has flaws but all of our current roster players have flaws. Giving up draft picks when you are outside looking in relating to the playoffs makes you an idiot to throw away draft picks. Our owner needlessly gave away our number one pick as a throw in for Blake Griffin. Tell me the Clippers wouldn't have made that stupid trade the Pistons made without the pick. Maybe that is my stupid opinion but making that trade made no sense at all. The Pistons have the worst management and ownership group in the NBA. They are easy prey for the perennial smart guys who always come up on top.

If watching the playoffs doesn't make all Piston fans angry knowing the team we have, then the owner might be successful in selling season tickets using the current hype relating to how great we will be with a healthy Reggie Jackson and Blake Griffin. And how can we forget about the improvement of AD's free throw shooting. WOW! Our partly engaged team during the months of January and February will improve so much that they will win even if they continue to ignore the mental game preparation players need to be successful. This team shows they are immature. That has been the case for the past 5 years. There is nothing to feel good about now with no first round draft pick. Maybe this owner will give our 2nd round pick away because he is embarrassed about giving away our number one pick and on draft night when the Clippers select a rotation piece, maybe one of the analysts will mention the Blake Griffin trade and who was responsible for negotiating that deal. If we have no pick maybe the owner will believe that no Piston fan will watch the NBA draft.

By the way the leader of creating the players only meeting that caused so much stir last season who was traded over the summer sure had a great game last night. This year the returning players knew better than to suggest a players only meeting knowing that is the kiss of death for the player who mentions such a thing first. It is better to just blend in and keep on losing and don't rock the boat or make any critical remarks to those who are protected. I believe that response by SVG to the players only meeting was the curse of death for the Detroit Pistons. And sure enough Detroit looked and acted like a big loser again while the arena remained close to empty. But what a gift Marcus Morris received when he was traded and plays for Brad Stevens and some high basketball IQ players who are not All Star's will huge stats but know how to win. On paper I can't see how the Celtics can win any playoff game. But there are no chemistry killers on that team and the coach is fantastic. The Pistons will use the old smoke and mirrors tricks to try to keep the fans engaged with the team next season. It won't work.

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Doofus Beard Advocates Pistons Trading Second Round Pick

Post  BallinD on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:06 pm

He said Pistons might as well trade the 2nd round pick because it won't be worth anything: Lazy Thinking!??!
1. Nikola Jokic drafted 41st in the second round.
2. Anybody remember Agent Zero, Gilbert Arenas

#60 C.J. Miles
#59 Allen Crabbe
#58 Ersan Ilyasova
#57 Cuttino Mobley
#56 Bojan Bogdanovic
#55 P.J. Tucker
#54 Jordan Clarkson
#53 Gerald Wilkins
#52 Rafer Alston
#51 Patty Mills
#50 Matt Barnes
#49 Zaza Pachulia
#48 Glen Davis
#47 Anderson Varejao
#46 P.J. Brown
#45 Vinny Del Negro
#44 Luis Scola
#43 Chandler Parsons
#42 Malcolm Brogdon
#41 Hot Rod Williams
#40 Jae Crowder
#39 Steve Kerr
#38 Vernon Maxwell
#37 Trevor Ariza
#36 Khris Middleton
#35 Marcin Gortat
#34 Lance Stephenson
#33 Lou Williams
#32 Danny Green
#31 Eddie Johnson

He is a professional NBA reporter?

WTF wrote:I keep saying our local media/talking heads are special but not in a good way.  I'm okay with opinion as long as it isn't a dumb opinion and you've done your homework before you speak. 


Pistons Mailbag wrote:As for Billups, it’s a move that would excite the fan base because it’s a recognizable name — but what are his credentials, beyond being an ESPN analyst? He was a candidate for the Cavaliers’ GM job last year, but he has no front-office experience. The last time a Detroit team went out and hired someone from the press box in the front office, it was Matt Millen. Billups actually could work out, but there are no guarantees there.

Everyone doesn't need a platform to speak.  How could this idiot mention Matt Millen as an example Billups coming from the broadcast booth has merit that it could work.  Really football and basketball not the same and really what happened the last time we hired an inexperience GM with no previous experience? I believe 2004 did.  I still think Joe was lucky but nonetheless Sherlock do you homework.
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Geez Wiz

Post  WTF on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 pm

I keep saying our local media/talking heads are special but not in a good way.  I'm okay with opinion as long as it isn't a dumb opinion and you've done your homework before you speak. 


Pistons Mailbag wrote:As for Billups, it’s a move that would excite the fan base because it’s a recognizable name — but what are his credentials, beyond being an ESPN analyst? He was a candidate for the Cavaliers’ GM job last year, but he has no front-office experience. The last time a Detroit team went out and hired someone from the press box in the front office, it was Matt Millen. Billups actually could work out, but there are no guarantees there.

Everyone doesn't need a platform to speak.  How could this idiot mention Matt Millen as an example Billups coming from the broadcast booth has merit that it could work.  Really football and basketball not the same and really what happened the last time we hired an inexperience GM with no previous experience? I believe 2004 did.  I still think Joe was lucky but nonetheless Sherlock do you homework.
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What will AD tell the owner? will it be a thumbs up or thumbs down?

Post  cool breeze on Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:39 pm

AD has it made so why would he want a change relating to the GM or head coach? He doesn't have to listen to SVG if he doesn't feel like it. Then when he decides to take a game off or play defense part time, everyone will blame SVG. The head coach is paid a lot of money to take the blame for the owner's blunders as well as the players lack of engagement. So why wouldn't he be back as long as the same guy owns the Detroit Pistons and his pet player plays for the Pistons. This has been a soap opera since SVG arrived. Any real coach would have resigned at least by the end of last season. For the owner to think for one second that Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond could act like grown ups and lead the team by example not talk would be much like the previous head coaches who were forced to play Charlie V when Joe had another mind fart with that free agent signing. AD the guy who put out a restraining order against a shooting coach SVG hired specifically to teach AD how to shoot foul shots. Even if the shooting coach might have been the guy who screwed up Stanley Johnson's jump shot release, to think that a low basketball IQ player could have complete control of all decision making should make all fans run for the exits of the arena. Screw you Stan, Tom says I don't have to do anything I don't want to do. This team is being run by children from the top on down. Now that the Pistons are on the outside looking in the owner will lean on Blake Griffin to become the team leader but just how much of an impact will Blake have on the two losers, Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond?

What you see in the playoffs are players with the DNA that our players do not have. Our players are not athletic or inspired enough to ever get to the top tier level. We have our Reggie Bullock who sure has improved but he is not in any stretch of the imagination on the same level of a guy like Middleton. We need a new owner and a new GM and coaching staff. If Isiah Thomas were asked to run this team there is no way that Reggie Jackson or in my opinion Andre Drummond would be on the team next fall. Drummond could be packaged so his new team would have to take Reggie Jackson if a 3 way trade could not be worked out. Nobody wants Reggie Jackson or his contract. Would Boston want AD enough to take Reggie? My bet is that Zeke would find a way to remove both players. AD could bring the Pistons a high draft pick. Zeke knows the only way the Pistons will get on the right track is to tank and slowly secure hard core players who nobody has to worry about being "engaged" to play in January and February. Every player on the roster should be looked at as a possible trade piece. No chance of moving Blake. We can thank the owner for the Pistons losing our number 1 pick. Who would do that knowing how horrible this team has become? Did AD have an say in who the Pistons drafted last summer? I doubt it but am not sure. Would SVG not want a guy like D. Mitchell to compete for playing time at Point guard? What a huge mistake but in the past it seems that the Pistons have gone out of their way to avoid competition for their chosen players. Middleton and Affalo were casualties from that type of decision making where emotional attachments by management and ownership deliberately eliminated completion first with the obsession to glorify Stuckey and now to protect Reggie Jackson. SVG even went so far as finding a small guy like Smith to bring on the team knowing he would never complete for the starting position over Jackson. Say if Detroit had drafted Brogdon playing now for the Bucks, who would any objective coach pick for playing time knowing how poorly Jackson plays on defense?

The story line that the pistons will easily make the playoffs next season is funny if you are not a Piston fan. Our point guards will get killed in any playoff matchup. Our center will get out smarted in every big man matchup. Our small forward and shooting guards will be inferior to all opponent players at those positions. Meanwhile, our bench will be led by Jon Leuer SVG's ace in the hole. But if there is still an opportunity to fire SVG from all duties and hire Zeke to run the Pistons operations without any input by the owner, then we can all feel that the Pistons have moved out of hell. This team looks like ship that has gone off course because the captain has committed suicide by jumping over board.

I would consider Jason Terry to bring on as an assistant coach for the Pistons next season if he retires. He knows every player in the league as well as the college players. Terry is a tireless worker who has really helped those young players on the Bucks. Can it possibly be true that SVG will return with his entire coaching staff for another go around? Money might talk for Tom Gores on this issue. And of course AD will approve. SVG doesn't say anything cross to AD. SVG knows how to butter his bread. What will happen if Blake Griffin explodes and confronts AD and RJ for their half in and half out style? Will Blake be another Josh Smith showing up on the payroll but not in uniform?

One final observation and prediction regarding the Cleveland-Indiana series. The officials will determine the outcome of this next game regardless of how well Indiana might play. In the last game towards the end, Labron was clearly suing the forearm shiver like football players might do many years ago to clear his way to the basket knocking down defenders and always getting a positive call from the officials. Indiana has the game they wanted though. Maybe the question will be what will happen if the officials are told by the NBA front office to employ the Labron rules when the series returns to the Pacers arena? Those fans have witnessed the Labron rules in the past. Will they create a riot? Great job Indiana! After all that maneuvering with the incredible trades made by Cleveland before the trade deadline and they still lost that first game. Fantastic!

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Incredible 3 point make with.5 seconds left in regulation by Middleton

Post  cool breeze on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:07 pm

You have to wonder if Joe Dumars watched Middleton's game against Boston. He is a real NBA star now. Many players have slipped through our hands due to insane blunders by Piston management but few can match the throw in by Joe Dumars in the Brandon Jennings trade. Of course this was a duplicate bogus decision by Joe when thinking about the give away of Arron Affalo but it appears that Middleton is at the top of the heap relating to NBA guards who can score in every way and also defend like a mad man.

It must cross every Piston fan when watching the playoffs that the Pistons have only part time players for the most part. At some instances Piston players shine in regular season games but I do not see any player with the exception of Blake Griffin in his prime who could cut it playing against most of the players involved in the playoffs. You can see that in the playoffs teams have to have a lot of really good players. Meanwhile, in the recent past Detroit has decided to bet the farm on two or three players. Now we have the Big Three in AD, BG and RJ. AD is a part time defender at best. RJ is a no time defender based on game film from every NBA game he as ever played. Blake Griffin could help if he can be a true leader of the team and demand better decision making by Piston management relating to roster make up. But is Blake still in his prime? Can he play for a complete season and be healthy if the Pistons ever do make the playoffs. As it stands our Pistons are not even close to being good enough to beat out the current 8 Eastern conference teams who are now playing. Maybe if Miami has problems with injures or Labron leaves Cleveland and one or two of our young guys get better there could be a chance.

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What He Didn't Say...

Post  BallinD on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:06 am

SVG forgot to mention the caveat of getting to the playoffs next year.  Once he is fired, this Pistons team will "Easily Reach Playoffs."  Duuuuhhhhhh!!??!!

Oracle wrote:Check out the article on the side: "Detroit Pistons set main goal for next season: Easily reach playoffs"

Damn, why didn't he think of this before, what a radical concept... just EASILY reach the playoffs.

Now keep this quiet, because if it gets out, every team in the league will get into the playoffs if they just peek SVG's secret sauce!

Folks, this is what we're dealing with, and it's the saddest thing I've seen, even sadder than fat Joe's shoe phone & jellies!
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Rasheed; Coach-Player Relationships

Post  Sparma on Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:09 pm

Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed. I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces. Evidently not everyone agrees. Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base. And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end. Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor. Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man. Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside. Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside. But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach. Sheed provided a striking example.
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A team can build a team around Anthony Davis for sure. Andre Drummond is not anyone any owner should have built his team around. Great job by the Pelicans!

Post  cool breeze on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:21 pm

It is fun to watch the playoffs. How about Anthony Davis? Looking at the games I saw several players that this owner could have picked up who would have made the Pistons a better team. I know all of you have this idea that Stan Van Gundy is calling the shots on lame offense the Pistons have used since Reggie Jackson arrived. But I would bet the farm that SVG had instructions he had to follow from Tom Gores and his owner buddies dictating that the offense had to feature his franchise player Andre Drummond. This is AD's team regardless of what any of you might believe. The goal of the owner was to showcase AD and the guy to make that happen was supposed to be Reggie Jackson. So if Reggie is ever traded or retires, it will be up to whoever is selected as the GM to find a player just like Reggie. None of the other players matter to this owner. He is emotionally attached to the hip with AD and it doesn't matter if the team wins or loses as long as AD is selected for the All Star team. Tom Gores doesn't see the game objectively. All he wants is Andre Drummond to succeed and make the All Star team. SVG gave the owner what he demanded. He signed Reggie Jackson. The owner is happy. He doesn't care if the arena is empty. Now if the owner had such a bond with Anthony Davis who would complain? Do any of you believe that Andre Drummond has a basketball brain anywhere close to Anthony Davis? If you do then you could not have watched a game for the past 5 years.

Oracle tries to camouflage the shortcomings of Piston players saying the system is flawed and that has been caused by the head coach. I really believe that if SVG had any power or control of player movement there would be no doubt that AD would have been traded last summer. Reggie Jackson might have been bought out too. I do blame SVG for signing Boban and Leuer for the money he blew. They were both worth less than 65% of the money offered but why were they selected in the first place? Boban never fit this Piston team. Leuer had no chance of signing anywhere other than the Pistons. The Suns had no interest in his services. The other player that turned out to be much better than I expected was Ish Smith. However, I think Smith would be a liability if the Pistons ever make the playoffs again while he is a Piston. But he is much better than the Jackson option. Why didn't SVG get Darron Collison who always kicks Reggie Jackson's ass in every matchup they have ever had. Collision can play defense. And then there was George Hill who could have been added easily if Tom Gores would agree. But Tom knows that Hill would not be the type of point guard who would make Andre Drummond his first option. Even the 40 year old Jason Terry would have proven to be a valuable player if he had been picked up two years ago. He is a player coach who makes all of the young guards better. But the entire thought process relating to this owner is to find ways to showcase Andre Drummond on offense. He could care less how he looks on defense. That is why I wish this owner would sell the team.

The playoffs are great and it is good that the Pistons didn't make the grade. They are boring as hell to watch. It is so good that the regular season is finally over but expect the same type of thing next season.

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I'm At Peace

Post  WTF on Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:10 pm

I didn't get to frustrated with season because I knew what I knew as far as the coaching was concerned.  I was never taken by surprise with the level of stupidity SVG displays as both the coach and president, and especially as the coach which is why I predicted how I did.   I only showed interest this season from a distance maybe watched 10-15 games all season just to get a peek a Luke Kennard.   

I can't get into this team I just never could connect with these players, not just this team but the NBA as a whole really.  It's sad when an unproven rookie is your only favorite player on the team.  I don't hate the players on his team but I don't like them either but it could be a generational thing because I just feel that they're lazy and uncommitted to wanting win games at all cost.   I think some of you give them far too much credit wouldn't it be a hoot if news broke that AD was addicted to eating Tide Pods and Snorting Condoms.  Sad but that's how I see a lot of these young players today,  I mean what else could wrong with that they can't take the huge amounts of money they're being paid more seriously and give 100% to winning.

There use to a time players just wanted to win but not anymore so it seems.  I think when AD finally shows some Pistons DNA that's when I'll like him right now I don't give rat's ass about his stats largely because they're worthless in a loss.   It's a 125 million he's making and I don't believe any of strongest or most loyal supporters believes he's earned it.   Especially if you can't carry your team as franchise players to the playoff and we have seen franchise player do this so it shouldn't be okay that AD can't.   

This I know for certain and that is if SVG is still coaching next season I may be done with this team all together.  I can get enough from watching the NCAA, NFL and NHL like did this year.  I honestly don't need this Pistons BS in my life
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SVG will be back, he's finally figured it out!!!

Post  Oracle on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:36 pm

Check out the article on the side: "Detroit Pistons set main goal for next season: Easily reach playoffs"

Damn, why didn't he think of this before, what a radical concept... just EASILY reach the playoffs.

Now keep this quiet, because if it gets out, every team in the league will get into the playoffs if they just peek SVG's secret sauce!

Folks, this is what we're dealing with, and it's the saddest thing I've seen, even sadder than fat Joe's shoe phone & jellies!
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DX/Sparma & more ranting :)

Post  Oracle on Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:05 pm

DX, great to hear from you Bro, and that was one stellar post! I posted earlier that I just couldn't stand watching them anymore, and that shocked me because I've watched when I knew we were going to lose damn near every game, but still enjoyed it.

It's like watching a movie where you never bond with any of the characters and you simply don't give a damn who gets killed, hell, kill all of them, it'll be over quicker  lol

So I know how you feel.

Spama, SVG is always in reaction mode with his FA signing. He has two fatal flaws,
1. He lets way too many valuable players walk with no return, and
2. He then overpays for marginal talent he could get on the cheap if he wasn't trying to out bid himself.

He totally mistreated Harris, and panicked with KCP, but in the case of KCP, Gores made the biggest mistake. You don't telegraph to a player(read his agent) that you'll go over the CAP to sign them to a max contract! That stupid move made KCP and his agent's heads so big, the infection never went down.

Both KCP & Morris were very important players for this team, as was Harris. Neither of them were great players by themselves, but the chemistry between that starting 5 was very good and would have gotten a LOT better. All young and growing, and that one year, they were a top 5 starting unit in the NBA.

In short, they had found the magic, and after losing Reggie the next year they struggled with Ish until they found the magic again. Not one to recognize success when he has it, SVG proceeded to screw that up inserting Reggie before he was ready. They never found the magic again!

Fans not responsible , but...: Fans went into blame mode, blaming players for the problems when coaching was the issue. But fans regularly blame players for things they have little input in, and shouldn't be listened to by management, but they are a factor. Don does this regularly on the money issue. News Flash: Agents are making the decisions you blame on the players. KCP's agent is LeBron's agent, do you really think KCP is doing any negotiation or setting any prices?

This resulted in SVG doing 3 really stupid things.
1. Sign Galloway to a ridiculous contract
2. Move Morris
3. Sign Bradley

Sadly, fans liked the signing of Bradley, I all but guaranteed everyone that he would soon be hurt and crap out on us when we needed him the most. How many games did he play for the Clippers, 4 or 5, and then injured for the season... what a joke!

There was even one poster that believed that Bradley's influence was so powerful that he would keep the coach in line... delusional to say the least.
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Want to get more depressed about the future of the Detroit Pistons? Watch the battle between Toronto and Washington and then watch Reggie Jackson play in the Pistons final game.

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:04 pm

During a timeout in the exciting game between the Wizards and Raptors i went to my DVR and put on the final Piston game. There was Reggie Jackson dribbling the ball up the court at half speed. He has that change of pace when nobody is guarding him. Reggie looks out of shape compared to the guards playing on both of the playoff teams that I had been watching. Then Reggie goes on defense and does the two step and then stands and reached as a driver went by him. How can Reggie Jackson be playing in the same league as John Wall? This Piston team management team has not planned for the future. they have a fake team.

Sparma gave a great review of Langston Galloway. He was not trying to pick on Langston. Sparma was just showing that the owner and SVG have a long history of over paying players so the Pistons won't end up in the basement. They prop up their starters by creating an offense that is suited to only two players, Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. Turning off the Pistons and watching the big men play in the playoffs also shows that AD would either be on the bench for most of the game because of foul trouble if he attempted to really play defense or would have allowed the guards on either Toronto or Washington to make 25 uncontested layups. If they missed of course either team would have been able to get mega 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities. The real NBA players turn things up three notches when the playoffs arrive. We all know when the chips are down our team has no chance of not getting blown out if they ever do make the playoffs again. But Reggie Jackson in the role of a starting NBA point guard making $16Mil is on our team is a true nightmare.

Will Jon Leuer replace either Moreland or Tolliver next season. They have to play him because of his contract. Leuer cannot play either position well enough to be a starter in the G League. But the story line will be that Jon had a great summer and will make a big impact next year. Look at that Piston payroll. The owner should be embarrassed.

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Deus/ Langston

Post  Sparma on Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:05 pm

Good to see you reporting in, Deus.

This a tough team to root for, even though there seem to be a lot of good guys. Example: Langston Galloway. His initial interview showed him to be a positive guy, and I read he's a welcome presence in the locker room. On the court, I enjoyed watching him light it up early, playing a big part in the 14-6 start.

Four unpleasant associations with Langston: 1) he had the lowest 3% percentage (tied, if I remember right) of his career, adding to the list of guys with declining shooting ability upon coming to the D (Leuer being around recent example), 2) given congestion on the inside once Blake arrived we really could have used a guy who could shoot at PG among the starters, filling in for Reggie J. But Langston really couldn't manage the passing aspect or ballhandling aspects from what I saw. SVG evidently agreed, playing him little at PG. But I'm not SVG! Weren't they supposed have an extensive scouting apparatus, watching every NBA game, allowing them to move quickly (good idea, btw). But shouldn't that scouting have revealed that he wasn't suited to help out significantly at PG, even though that's why you're bringing him in, as combo guard? This isn't a 19 y.o. Serbian we're scouting, but a guy with a long track record, 3) the Pistons way overpaid to bring him in. He's a guy who's supposed to be delivered by astute scouting for a bargain, not a sudden 3 year 21 mil deal with no competitors in sight, 4) I think Langston can play, can contribute as a glue guy. We shouldn't have brought him in for so much, but now that he's here, let's put in to good use. SVG failed here, just bringing him back at the tail end when Langston proved that he can still play.

So: good guy, that Langston (as best I can tell), nice player, but, dang, he illustrates in telling ways what's wrong with the team and what makes them hard to root for.
deusXango wrote:Congratulations Wise, you surely live up to your principals and insights.

I've been in a state of reflective disgust for the longest and being a homer, apathy is threatening to set in (what Gores decides to do with Van Gundy is why). The first thing that our silly ass President/coach did that made no sense to me was "fire" Arnie Kander; I can't help but believe that injuries wouldn't have lingered as long as they did, or play as big a role in our teams failure, had Kander remained on board. As unorthodox as his methods were, he was a proven asset for the Pistons over the years.

My next head scratcher was "firing" Rasheed Wallace, as big man coach, and replacing him with Aaron Grey, who was originally signed to play but, could not perform. I'll never believe there was wisdom in that move!

Stan Van Gundy's propensity to overpay for middling FA talent long before the market has been set and never openly addressing the fact that he suckered himself as #1 decision maker for the Pistons; he runs his mouth about everything else. I can understand the max contract he (Gores) signed Drummond to but, the contract he signed Reggie Jackson to?! Jon Leuer!  Ankle sprains are an unpredictable part of the game but, the teams physician should've known of Reggie's asthmatic condition, his history of needed plasma injections into his knee and reported that to President SVG; Reggie Jackson shouldn't have had 2 bargaining agents at the table during contract talks, Van Gundy being one of them through his ignorance. IMHO no team in basketball would've given Jon Leuer a $10 million a year contract other than the SVG led Pistons. What about that cute "stretch provision" (that no one had heard of) that he applied to Josh Smith, you know the one that the bottom line is still haunted by. More has gone wrong than right but, he remains in favor based on past accomplishments from the bench, not the front office and the bench coach has lost his magic....this failure of a team is the one SVG put together but, can't successfully coach.

We've got Blake Griffin, our super star, albeit not a young beast of a player like he once was, who's dependent on Drummond and Jackson to succeed in the highly critical Detroit (rightfully so; we know what a winner looks like) and I can't help but remember that a lot of local fans wanted DeAndre Jordan instead of Andre Drummond, and IMHO Reggie Jackson is nowhere near being in the same conversation with Chris Paul. Can you see where I'm going with this? As soon as Chris Paul ends his career he's on his way to the HOF, whereas Reggie Jackson can't/has yet to make an All-Star appearance! If the Clippers didn't make it into championship contention, with superior supporting talent around Griffin, where is this band of hopefuls going? No CAP space, no first round draft pick(s), no clear cut direction, and no rating/grade for Stan Van Gundy in this past losing season; isn't he a part of this team who's tasked with performing? We yet look forward to the victorious return of Jon Leuer, Reggie Jackson, and the coaching genius that once was Stan Van Gundy.

I wouldn't bet a race horse could outrun a milk cow but, I did bet that this team could've won 50 games this past season; what the hell happened? Put me down as official haters of Stan Van Gundy, Reggie Jackson, and Jon Leuer; over-paid non-performers. I really don't hate Leuer, but it's that opinion of SVG that he's a starter in this league that I find maddening and he's still here, while Tobias Harris is gone...Avery Bradley and our first rounder as well but, Leuer is still here.
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The joy of watching the team play was gone and no Pistons DNA could be found.

Post  deusXango on Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:45 pm

Congratulations Wise, you surely live up to your principals and insights.

I've been in a state of reflective disgust for the longest and being a homer, apathy is threatening to set in (what Gores decides to do with Van Gundy is why). The first thing that our silly ass President/coach did that made no sense to me was "fire" Arnie Kander; I can't help but believe that injuries wouldn't have lingered as long as they did, or play as big a role in our teams failure, had Kander remained on board. As unorthodox as his methods were, he was a proven asset for the Pistons over the years.

My next head scratcher was "firing" Rasheed Wallace, as big man coach, and replacing him with Aaron Grey, who was originally signed to play but, could not perform. I'll never believe there was wisdom in that move!

Stan Van Gundy's propensity to overpay for middling FA talent long before the market has been set and never openly addressing the fact that he suckered himself as #1 decision maker for the Pistons; he runs his mouth about everything else. I can understand the max contract he (Gores) signed Drummond to but, the contract he signed Reggie Jackson to?! Jon Leuer!  Ankle sprains are an unpredictable part of the game but, the teams physician should've known of Reggie's asthmatic condition, his history of needed plasma injections into his knee and reported that to President SVG; Reggie Jackson shouldn't have had 2 bargaining agents at the table during contract talks, Van Gundy being one of them through his ignorance. IMHO no team in basketball would've given Jon Leuer a $10 million a year contract other than the SVG led Pistons. What about that cute "stretch provision" (that no one had heard of) that he applied to Josh Smith, you know the one that the bottom line is still haunted by. More has gone wrong than right but, he remains in favor based on past accomplishments from the bench, not the front office and the bench coach has lost his magic....this failure of a team is the one SVG put together but, can't successfully coach.

We've got Blake Griffin, our super star, albeit not a young beast of a player like he once was, who's dependent on Drummond and Jackson to succeed in the highly critical Detroit (rightfully so; we know what a winner looks like) and I can't help but remember that a lot of local fans wanted DeAndre Jordan instead of Andre Drummond, and IMHO Reggie Jackson is nowhere near being in the same conversation with Chris Paul. Can you see where I'm going with this? As soon as Chris Paul ends his career he's on his way to the HOF, whereas Reggie Jackson can't/has yet to make an All-Star appearance! If the Clippers didn't make it into championship contention, with superior supporting talent around Griffin, where is this band of hopefuls going? No CAP space, no first round draft pick(s), no clear cut direction, and no rating/grade for Stan Van Gundy in this past losing season; isn't he a part of this team who's tasked with performing? We yet look forward to the victorious return of Jon Leuer, Reggie Jackson, and the coaching genius that once was Stan Van Gundy.

I wouldn't bet a race horse could outrun a milk cow but, I did bet that this team could've won 50 games this past season; what the hell happened? Put me down as official haters of Stan Van Gundy, Reggie Jackson, and Jon Leuer; over-paid non-performers. I really don't hate Leuer, but it's that opinion of SVG that he's a starter in this league that I find maddening and he's still here, while Tobias Harris is gone...Avery Bradley and our first rounder as well but, Leuer is still here.
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14 Years People

Post  WTF on Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:43 pm

I've always said Joe was lucky and stupid at the same time because had he just simply drafted Carmelo things would have been different and for certain we win at least 2 more titles.  SVG not lucky he's just stupid because he should have been able to make a Monroe, Drummond and Smith work but he fucked that up royally buying out Smith and letting Moose walk away.

Just been so much dumb **** since 2004 all virtually down hill
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:36 pm

Murph wrote:My fantasy was that the Pistons would keep their championship core together, and then little by little replace them in the starting lineup with Stuckey, Afflalo, Johnson and Maxiel, so that as time went on, we'd have a rotation that looked something like this:

Stuckey, Billups
Afflalo, Hamilton
Prince, Maxiel
Johnson, Sheed
McDyess, Wallace

Or something like that.

My fantasy was that our core could stay together and aged gracefully, playing like 20-24 minutes a night off the bench, while our young players learned from them, picked up their Piston DNA, and gradually took over the starting roles.  Really, under this scenario, there was no reason why our core couldn't have played productive until they were like 37 or 38 years old each, retired as Pistons, had their jerseys raised to the rafters, and become HOFers.  And meanwhile, the Pistons would have been relevant for another 5 to 8 years, like the Spurs, and maybe even won another championship.

Unfortunately, Joe blew it all up by trading Billups for Iverson, letting Wallace then Sheed walk, firing Flip, hiring Curry then Kuester, ruining the rest of Hamilton's career, dumping Afflalo and Johnson for a bag of basketballs, etc. etc. etc.  It didn't have to happen like that.

Makes great sense Murph. Being an outstanding 2 guard himself, what was it that caused Joe Dumars to lose his mind and not realize what he had in Affalo. Affalo himself was shocked when Joe dumped him. I used to travel a lot from Arizona to Michigan and back and one 3 occasions Affalo was on the flight. What made me think of that is how smart that guy was when he was really young. He didn't waste his money flying first class. Arron flew economy on Southwest Airlines. I'll bet he still has 80% of the money he made on his first contract.

My worry is this current Piston owner. Coaches will come and go. But this ownership group might cause the Pistons to dwell in no mans land for the rest of my life. This might be my last year of purchasing NBA League Pass. It is a waste of time to think about the Pistons. Andre Drummond might in time become the best center in the NBA. However, his relationship with the owner is pure poison relating to the health of the Piston organization moving forward. I can see an owner saying what do you want Zeke? Who do you think we should get to make our team better? But asking for advise from a player who still is not interested in learning the fundamentals, becoming the defensive player his team needs to be successful, or having the ability to prepare himself mentally before games and concentrate and think more than one play ahead, is insane. AD can become an important piece but he has no clue about the big picture. AD wants RJ. RJ gets him the ball. RJ and AD are friends. AD and TG are like family. Such a bond but where do other Piston players fit in?

Maybe the owner should ask Anthony Tolliver what the Pistons should do next with no number one pick this summer to stimulate the fan base. Anthony seems to be about the smartest player on this team even when his shots are not falling. He came prepared to play every night. He knows the defensive rotation system and gives great effort when playing defense. He doesn't switch at the wrong time. He runs the court all out. I only bring up his name to show how far the Pistons have fallen. it is a stretch to think that this Piston team with Reggie Jackson and Ish smith running the point guard position will be able to beat out any of the current playoff teams in the Eastern conference. We have a low basketball IQ team. Maybe if the Hornets would trade Walker to the Pistons, we might have a chance. Maybe one or two of the 21 and 22 year old players will break out next year. But AD wants RJ so that is the way it will be and it will be likely that those young guys will be shut out of the offense. RJ, BG and AD will get 85% of the touches. Fans will want the young guys traded because their scoring averages are down. No attention will be made to RJ's turnovers. My best guess that in this meeting coming up, SVG will tell Tom Gores that he doesn't want to come back as long as RJ is the Pistons starting point guard. Then Tom can hire another coach who will run the 4 out and 1 in pick and roll offense where the team runs only the first option 85% of the time. The way this team showed us how they ran this offense was a dead giveaway of their mental capacity when it comes to playing basketball.

to bad we can't go back to the old days and talk Joe out of making bad decisions. But his bad decisions must be tempered with the good things he did. Joe was a genius compared to this group running the Pistons now.

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Flip and Co.

Post  Murph on Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:07 am

My fantasy was that the Pistons would keep their championship core together, and then little by little replace them in the starting lineup with Stuckey, Afflalo, Johnson and Maxiel, so that as time went on, we'd have a rotation that looked something like this:

Stuckey, Billups
Afflalo, Hamilton
Prince, Maxiel
Johnson, Sheed
McDyess, Wallace

Or something like that.

My fantasy was that our core could stay together and aged gracefully, playing like 20-24 minutes a night off the bench, while our young players learned from them, picked up their Piston DNA, and gradually took over the starting roles.  Really, under this scenario, there was no reason why our core couldn't have played productive until they were like 37 or 38 years old each, retired as Pistons, had their jerseys raised to the rafters, and become HOFers.  And meanwhile, the Pistons would have been relevant for another 5 to 8 years, like the Spurs, and maybe even won another championship.

Unfortunately, Joe blew it all up by trading Billups for Iverson, letting Wallace then Sheed walk, firing Flip, hiring Curry then Kuester, ruining the rest of Hamilton's career, dumping Afflalo and Johnson for a bag of basketballs, etc. etc. etc. It didn't have to happen like that.
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