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Lions...

Post  Oracle on Wed May 02, 2018 10:52 pm

A couple of things jump right at me!

1. The theory is that we need a running game.  I don't follow this line of thinking unless you're saying we need a super star running back, like a Barry Sanders that can carry the team by himself, and we aren't going to get that back here any time soon. The fact is that a running back is NOT the problem.

The Lions offense is designed to do one thing... Pass protect so that Stafford can have time to dissect the defense. Run blocking is an after thought, and until and unless that changes, runners can't run if there are no holes opened. So yes, we can upgrade our running game, but it likely won't help until the offensive line focus is altered.

2. The schedule is tough. Yes it is... so what! If you want to be the best, you have to play and beat the best. Good teams don't fear the schedule, they look at as a challenge, and if that's not how the Lions view things, then they need to be in another business.
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Wise & Don: Lions & SVG/ Gores

Post  Sparma on Wed May 02, 2018 10:08 pm

Tough Lions' schedule, I agree, Wise, with all the Central foes looking significantly improved. I've got the sense that the Lions have been playing it smart this off season, addressing needs prudently. I heard one commentator say they had the worst draft of all. Dangerous feeling that they've been playing it smart given my 50 year history of following them. Further, I've got the sense that they may get better without having a better record to show for it, due to the schedule. Fingers crossed though.

Don writes: "I am not buying into the idea that Tom Gores would now be thinking of cost relating to making his decision on SVG's guaranteed contract. $7 Mil to this owner is just written off as another expense." I'm not saying $$ would be THE reason for Gores keeping SVG [and again I think he'd be making a mistake to do so] but that it would be A reason. He's not "thinking" about saving millions? Wow, that seems like an overstatement. Pre-Gores we saw a number of coaches brought in where I felt saving $$ was a significant motivation: Curry, Kuester, Frank, and Cheeks. With Gores saving millions is something not even thought of? Wow.

That said, I do think you bring up a great point about book keeping. I'd be inclined to primarily apply that point elsewhere though. I wonder if depreciation of assets may have been a consideration when trading for Blake Griffin. Don't think that would apply to SVG qua coach & Prez so long as his health didn't collapse. It's possible that Gores would be eligible for a major tax break on Griffin (weird as it is to think of persons as assets) that made him more willing to take on an injury-prone player. That wouldn't help the team with salary cap (unless we land in a Leuer-like situation), but it may have made some difference to him personally. And there could just be some kind of insurance too. Just for the record: I clearly I don't know the ins and outs of tax laws and sports franchises. But the intricacies probably do make a difference to decisions at times.

WTF wrote:
Sparma wrote:Not a good time to be a Detroit fan more generally, with the Lions our best shot now. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about them, but the early Vegas 8 win prediction sounds fair.

That schedule is a BEAST the year I'm a little worried if we go into the season without a run game.  They can't keep putting on the arm of Stafford nor keep relying on the defense.  Both get worn out over the course of a season and I don't think it's fair that Stafford is expected to carry the offense alone and the defense gets tired by mid season.

The Pistons are just simply doomed as long as SVG stays here, fans seriously need to bailout on them nd hurt Gore's pockets.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed May 02, 2018 8:48 pm

Sparma wrote:It's not a good time to be a Pistons fan, even though I expect improvement, indeed playoffs, next year.

Philip asked what might possess Gores to retain SVG.  Murph mentioned the 7 mil due to SVG next year.  Beyond that, they'd need to pay a different coach next year if SVG left.   Let's say that's 5 mil.   I wasn't getting the saving right in an earlier post.

Scenario 1: SVG is coach & Prez next year: 7 mil cost.

Scenario 2: SVG is replaced as coach: the extra cost would simply be for the cost of the new coach, say 5 mil, as Gores would be on the hook for SVG's 7 mil anyway.  He just would get no benefit (?) from SVG's work.

Scenario 3: SVG stays as coach, but has a reduced front office role.  Harder to figure if Bower's out, maybe Tellum gets a pay boost, or someone else comes in.  

In any case, forcing SVG out early would cost real money, even for a billionaire.  And Stan's been here as the value of the franchise has skyrocketed, an important fact for Gores, as Murph points out.  

Sadly, I agree with Murph that our misery likely doesn't end with letting Stan stay, but that a playoff berth leads to a re-signing of SVG.  Misery in that I foresee a continuing low ceiling accompanied by ongoing financial constraints.

Weirdly, if Stan stays, the best thing for me as a Pistons fan might be if the team gets off to a bad start and he gets axed.  Do I need to start rooting against my team if I want to retain genuine hope in the long term?  Odd stuff.

Not a good time to be a Detroit fan more generally, with the Lions our best shot now.  I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about them, but the early Vegas 8 win prediction sounds fair.

Murph wrote:You know what it is?  Gores doesn't really care about winning.  What he really cares about is his bottom line.  With Van Gundy, the team has tripled in value, and Gores saves himself $7 million by bringing SVG back.  Geesh.

Not only that, if the Pistons make the playoffs next year, which they should, Gores is going to re-sign SVG to a new contract.  We're stuck with Van Gundy.

I feel trapped as a Pistons fan.  Sad

I am not buying into the idea that Tom Gores would now be thinking of cost relating to making his decision on SVG's guaranteed contract. $7 Mil to this owner is just written off as another expense. The guaranteed contracts he has agreed to relating to his 5 highest paid players should make him angry and question the sanity of his management team. What if Mr. Gores hired an independent expert to provide an analysis of the facts comparing other teams in the league with the Pistons relating to payroll and effectiveness. If the Piston organization was being run like a business then the Board of Directors would fire the entire coaching staff and the entire front office. Does anyone disagree with the obvious conclusion anyone could make who has followed the NBA since SVG his crew arrived? He has failed. No business big business enterprise would be worrying about paying $7 Mil if it looked like that business was going in the wrong direction. Just the thought that this owner hasn't hired an outside party to review the current state of the Pistons is mind boggling unless he believes that he knows when he obviously doesn't know squat about running an NBA team. Instead Tom Gores is still appeasing his players who failed him. Who would do that unless they have developed a personal attachment with their employees which is the kiss of death where logic and reason is not factored into business decisions. How much happier can the owner make these Piston players? If the owner fires this coach and GM will certain players become moody to the point where the new coach will question their "engagement" when it comes to game preparation, skill improvement and effort equal to the players Tom's players play against. How many times did Greg Kelser make statements about how important it is to prepare yourself before tip off instead of just showing up. Also, Greg would show replays where our players were not sharing the basketball or failing to go after loose balls. There is a fine line between winning and losing. Things like effort have nothing to do with coaches. Players are expected to show why their teams are paying them a lot of cash. But it seems this owner still doesn't have a clue. Instead he consults with Andre Drummond and Blake Griffin. Do you like the coach?

Now I ask you what if Isiah Thomas had been hired to do all of SVG's jobs. Wouldn't Zeke say keep your damn money. Does this owner know the difference between running Kmart and an NBA team. Let's see I am the owner of Kmart so I think I will ask the cashier what she or he thinks about the store manager. Is he a prick or a nice guy who let's the cashier take a smoke break? This world has gone crazy with the customer surveys and employees evaluating each other instead of the owner or their superior.

This owner is not serious about providing a winning culture relating to the Pistons. It is obvious that this team needs a new set of eyes to evaluate what should be done. But I am thinking that Mr. Gores is going to retain SVG as head coach and fire Bower who makes no decision without SVG's OK. If SVG hasn't had his dog chew off his balls, then he should resign if the owner insists on blaming Bower while trying to avoid firing SVG because of his contract. Does Bower have a guaranteed contract as well? Nobody seems to be talking about that. No the owner is incompetent in my estimation and he has caused a lot of the current problems. Ins't it important to consider that Tom Gores was behind the Blake Griffin trade. Every source I look at indicates that Bower and SVG advised against the trade. There is no way that during the negotiations both men tried to take Mr. Gores out of that deal when the Clippers wanted the Pistons to include the Pistons number one pick.

The bottom line is this. This owner is playing a waiting game. He is testing the waters holding up a finger trying to figure out public opinion. He knows many fans do not like what has happened since SVG arrived. They do not like his offense designed around AD and RJ while the other 3 players stand in place. They don't like the shoddy defense displayed in crunch time when game are decided. They don't like the volume of turnovers committed by Piston point guards. Did I miss anything?

What if Isiah Thomas agreed to take over the responsibilities that SVG currently is in charge of relating to coaching and being a decision maker on player personnel. Would Zeke have given Leuer a multi year $10Mil contract? Would Zeke be running the 4 out and 1 in to appease two players? Would Zeke form personal attachments with players to the point where his judgment was clouded? Who is the smartest Piston that has ever worn a Piston uniform? Who is the smartest analyst in NBA TV? Who would not submit to the whims of this owner when it comes to allowing players to go behind his back and call the owner when they are critisized by their coach? That is why Zeke will never be hired by this owner and no other person like Zeke would even take the job because they are driven to be involved with WINNING. This owner tolerates losing. SVG is a politically correct puppet for the owner. He should resign if the owner fires Bower. This will be interesting to watch relating to SVG. Isn't it funny to hear the owner go on and on about SVG's skill as a coach? SVG was effective at one time in his career but not as the Pistons coach. His team is seldom prepared to play basketball. His team shows lack of effort. His team has shown poor discipline especially in the long winter months when all the players start feeling the effects of playing too many games. Lack of mental discipline results in point guard created turnovers. Center created turnovers. Failing to react properly within the defensive rotation system. On and on it goes. SVG has failed. His players have failed. Meanwhile, the owner continues to provide fans with smoke and mirrors. The owner is not serious. He is using deception so as to not lose more Piston fans again this year. There are many casualties among the fans. It is going to get worse.

The only thing that could inspire fans is to see Zeke's face either in person at the arena or feeling comfort that he is in charge while watching the pistons on television. We know that Zeke has a heart. That he is not full of crap like the others currently involved with this organization. Zeke's spirit is amazing. He would bring out the best in this group of players or find a way to remove them. But the fans who know Piston history would come out in droves because they love Isiah Thomas and trust his judgment. Most of us do not trust the basic judgment of the owner, the coaching staff or the current front office. WE WANT ZEKE! WE DEMAND ZEKE! I hope fans will pick up on this and cause this owner to head for LA if he maintains the status quo.

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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Wed May 02, 2018 12:21 pm

Sparma wrote:Not a good time to be a Detroit fan more generally, with the Lions our best shot now. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about them, but the early Vegas 8 win prediction sounds fair.

That schedule is a BEAST the year I'm a little worried if we go into the season without a run game.  They can't keep putting on the arm of Stafford nor keep relying on the defense.  Both get worn out over the course of a season and I don't think it's fair that Stafford is expected to carry the offense alone and the defense gets tired by mid season.

The Pistons are just simply doomed as long as SVG stays here, fans seriously need to bailout on them nd hurt Gore's pockets.
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SVG

Post  Sparma on Wed May 02, 2018 11:32 am

It's not a good time to be a Pistons fan, even though I expect improvement, indeed playoffs, next year.

Philip asked what might possess Gores to retain SVG.  Murph mentioned the 7 mil due to SVG next year.  Beyond that, they'd need to pay a different coach next year if SVG left.   Let's say that's 5 mil. I wasn't getting the saving right in an earlier post.

Scenario 1: SVG is coach & Prez next year: 7 mil cost.

Scenario 2: SVG is replaced as coach: the extra cost would simply be for the cost of the new coach, say 5 mil, as Gores would be on the hook for SVG's 7 mil anyway. He just would get no benefit (?) from SVG's work.

Scenario 3: SVG stays as coach, but has a reduced front office role. Harder to figure if Bower's out, maybe Tellum gets a pay boost, or someone else comes in.

In any case, forcing SVG out early would cost real money, even for a billionaire. And Stan's been here as the value of the franchise has skyrocketed, an important fact for Gores, as Murph points out.

Sadly, I agree with Murph that our misery likely doesn't end with letting Stan stay, but that a playoff berth leads to a re-signing of SVG.  Misery in that I foresee a continuing low ceiling accompanied by ongoing financial constraints.

Weirdly, if Stan stays, the best thing for me as a Pistons fan might be if the team gets off to a bad start and he gets axed. Do I need to start rooting against my team if I want to retain genuine hope in the long term? Odd stuff.

Not a good time to be a Detroit fan more generally, with the Lions our best shot now.  I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about them, but the early Vegas 8 win prediction sounds fair.

Murph wrote:You know what it is?  Gores doesn't really care about winning.  What he really cares about is his bottom line.  With Van Gundy, the team has tripled in value, and Gores saves himself $7 million by bringing SVG back.  Geesh.

Not only that, if the Pistons make the playoffs next year, which they should, Gores is going to re-sign SVG to a new contract.  We're stuck with Van Gundy.

I feel trapped as a Pistons fan.  Sad
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SVG

Post  Murph on Wed May 02, 2018 9:36 am

You know what it is?  Gores doesn't really care about winning.  What he really cares about is his bottom line.  With Van Gundy, the team has tripled in value, and Gores saves himself $7 million by bringing SVG back.  Geesh.

Not only that, if the Pistons make the playoffs next year, which they should, Gores is going to re-sign SVG to a new contract.  We're stuck with Van Gundy.

I feel trapped as a Pistons fan.  Sad
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Just looked up the definition of a Vagina

Post  Oracle on Wed May 02, 2018 12:10 am

Here's the picture I found:

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Players who do not win should not have input on who stays and who goes when the team has failed

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 01, 2018 10:33 pm

What has happened shows signs that the owner is weak. He should never consult with players especially players who have a history of losing. Andre Drummond has a history of being on losing teams. Fire SVG and the front office staff. HIRE ISIAH THOMAS. Zeke is the only man who could turn this franchise around. Just his presence would sell tickets. Do the fans support SVG or the Piston front office? NO! This owner is part of the problem He is not a strong leader. We need a strong leader. That man is Zeke. This owner is just thinking of ways to keep SVG because he will have to pay him if he is fired. Look at the results. The results are not good. The financial position is horrible. The roster is horrible. The leadership is horrible. Piston fans will not support this nonsense. The arena will be empty. The fans have already disappeared. What is left but the owner, SVG and his family members, the players family members and the owner's family members who will attend the games.

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BRING IN ZEKE! Detroit sports writers have a tough job coming up with news about the Pistons

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 01, 2018 7:33 pm

Of course there is no good news for Piston fans. The only news left now is to conjure up stories about the big meeting between Tom Gores and Stan Van Gundy. Tom consults with AD who gives a thumbs up or down. We don't know what Andre's decision was but maybe AD wants SVG back as his head coach but doesn't like Bower because he was thinking about ways to trade AD. Does SVG allow AD to sit on the bench during suicides in practice? We know AD doesn't have to listen to the shooting coach. Could be AD did that because he saw what happened to Stanley Johnson when we was forced to change his jump shot release. Maybe AD is allowed to practice his free throws as the rest of the players are spilling their guts doing the conditioning work. Most likely Reggie Jackson is also held out of the suicides as nobody wants him to suffer another injury. Can't have that. You can't be too careful. Meanwhile, Labron James is leading his team in suicides as he knows it takes hard work to get in better physical condition than any other NBA player to be successful during playoff games. Maybe AD and RJ are happy to miss playing in the playoffs but both really want to be named to the All Star team.

If SVG is retained as head coach but doesn't get to keep his buddy Bower, then SVG will be lonely when he attends eating addiction prevention meetings next winter. Tom Gores may nsist on Bower being the scapegoat even though everyone knows Bower makes no decisions without SVG's OK. But perhaps SVG would approve of the firing his brother Jeff could step in as the GM. If that happens NBA fans will most likely celebrate knowing Jeff will not be back as an announcer where he tells the audience his opinion on all foul calls. " No that wasn't a foul". "Yes that for sure was a foul". Can you imagine getting paid to provide you subjective thoughts about NBA officials decision making skills? On the one hand there is Hubie Brown who intelligently breaks down to fans what offense is being run and why a team is running that specific offense. Hubie sees a lot of stuff the normal person never understands. Then there is Dick Vitale and Jeff Van Gundy. I always turn off the sound whenever they are announcing games. He is a dapper dandy! Look at that dunk! Maybe we better be careful what we wish for. Maybe if both Stan and Jeff are fired, we will get Dick Vitale as head coach and Jeff Van Gundy as the new GM and President. Holy hell why not do it? This team has no chance with the current payroll and so much money being paid out to AD, RJ, BG, JL, and LG. Any new coach for the Pistons will be forced to play those 5 players a lot for the next two to four years.

I have been hard on the Piston's owner. He is learning the hard way. Years from now Tom will look back and shake his head wondering how things got so screwed up. The quick decisions to sign Jon Leuer and Galloway for so much money for sure was pretty insane when you think about what the Pacers got with one year contracts this past season. Now they can decide on which players they want to keep. The Pistons do not have that option. Ownership is stuck with the Big 5. All they need to do to get their fat paychecks is show up. The NBA is not do or die. You just need to show up. And for many years the Pistons have suffered because they have too many players who just show up with no thought at all about the game ahead or the practice ahead and have no goals set to attempt improvement. So I feel for the sports reporters who are forced to come up with something positive about the Detroit Pistons. This summer the Pistons are lower than they have been in a very long time. The Pistons are known as a dumb team that lack spunk or "engagement" at times. They lose because of poor decision making and lack of effort.

Watching Zeke put his finger in his birthday cake while remembering his Mother on NBA TV reveals that Isiah Thomas still has that same personality that he had as a player. He is fun to be around and shows his excitement about basketball clearly. Why in hell is Zeke on the outside looking in relating to the Pistons organization? If there ever was a time when the Pistons needed a leader it is now. The Pistons need Isiah Thomas as their front office leader and as their head coach. If Tom Gores has any brains he will be begging Zeke to take over the entire operations of the Pistons. Just let him so his thing with no owner interference.  Zeke never just showed up for a regular season or playoff game. He was always thinking ahead to what needed to be done to get his team ready to play the next game. There is no doubt about his leadership abilities or his high basketball IQ. We fall back on memories of the Bad Boys and Zeke as their leader as we try to block out the reality now where the Piston roster is inferior to most every current roster in the NBA. Many teams have worse records but are for sure in a better financial position and have planned ahead to make sure they have some good picks available in the draft. The Pistons have no first round pick AGAIN. How could that be? How dumb are they? Are the front office people dumber than our players? That would be a good suggestion for the Detroit sports writers to work on. I believe the front office and coaching staff should get the award for being the most mentally deficient relating to the sport of basketball. Fire SVG and everyone in the front office who has decision making ability along the the entire coaching staff. The Pistons need a shake up. WE NEED ZEKE! Would he take on this project? Any front office leader or head coach will have difficulty making changes because of the player contracts. But I would not bet against Zeke. He can still perform miracles.

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Half Right Is Stll Wrong

Post  WTF on Tue May 01, 2018 6:41 pm

Yes Gore is a dumb ass but this things doesn't sound like its etched in stone though.  I'm hoping SVG is too stubborn to come back in Lame Coach status with forced changes and he quits.  Sounds like a lot of control is being taken away but not enough or in the right area because it's the coaching that screwing this team more so than his front office decisions.  

This is just plain stupid!!!! facepalm
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SVG is BACK, and The Doctors Report is in...

Post  Oracle on Tue May 01, 2018 6:10 pm

Yes, the X-Rays are in,


Based on this evidence, Gores has been certified as having...

Phil1980boy wrote:This is my question for all the Piston fans.

Today is May 1st 2018. The time is 1:18 PM Eastern time.

HOW IN THE F.U.C.K does Stan Van Gundy still have A job on this date?

Tom GORES is A F.U.C.K.I.N.G S.H.I.T for brains, dumb azz, PRICK!

Good day all!!
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May 1st 2018

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue May 01, 2018 2:20 pm

This is my question for all the Piston fans.

Today is May 1st 2018. The time is 1:18 PM Eastern time.

HOW IN THE F.U.C.K does Stan Van Gundy still have A job on this date?

Tom GORES is A F.U.C.K.I.N.G S.H.I.T for brains, dumb azz, PRICK!

Good day all!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Murph wrote:I know they didn't teach you much at Arizona.  I mean after all, you were an athlete.  I'm sure you didn't even have to go to class.  drunken

Or maybe your high school coach football banged your head against the bus window one too many times. scratch

But even a U of A grad should be able to look at a stat sheet and see that Stanley Johnson sucks.  It ain't rocked science.  lol

Sounds like you work for the main stream media Murph where Arizona's head coach was vilified by ESPN based on some fake leads allegedly from the FBI. I don't know who the dirty individuals are from the many schools identified so far and am not worked up about anything. I do not believe DeAndre Ayton took any money to play at Arizona. My complaint would be why the coaching staff and Arizona guards could not figure out a way to get him the ball more. I will leave the politics to you. But you are a nasty man Murph. You try to hit players and posters below the belt. Did you kick out your leg to hit opponent defenders in the testicles if you did ever play organized basketball?

By the way I was raised in the state of Michigan and moved to Arizona for a great job opportunity. Plus Arizona was attractive because you can run here year around and I have been a long distance runner not a basketball player since my college days. I did play basketball for a college in Michigan and I get more pumped up watching the Michigan college football and basketball teams from Michigan then I do for the Arizona schools. But it is cool to go to McHale Arena to watch the U of A basketball games. Maybe you don't approve because after all U of Arizona fans should feel shame as you say. What did the fans have to do with the FBI probe which also includes Michigan State and possibly other Michigan schools. My thought on this entire matter is who cares. Why would the FBI spending mega resources on college basketball where poor kids are monitored on their iPhones and computers when violent gangs are taking over our country? Read the book published in the Detroit News about my old hometown Detroit. Pretty scary stuff to know Detroit has taken over first place as the most violent city in the USA.

As for Johnson obviously you didn't read my posts. Contracts rule so the Big 5 mean Johnson has to go. The Pistons have no money to keep him so why do you have such a need to smear him? Johnson has never had any clout relating to what offense would be run for this Piston team in the past. He was the guy standing in the baseline corner getting rust for his stay on the Piston team. He will blossom. Johnson can play defense unlike most of the players on the Piston team regardless of the bogus stats you keep pulling out relating to AD. RJ and AD have controlled the Pistons. That is why the Pistons have run the 4 out and 1 in offense. Take a look at other successful teams and then look at the Pistons roster. That is what you should be concentrating on not me or Stanley Johnson. But USA is a free country to bring it on.

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Is The Reason Don Can't Read a Stat Sheet Because He Went to UA?

Post  Murph on Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:41 am

I know they didn't teach you much at Arizona. I mean after all, you were an athlete. I'm sure you didn't even have to go to class. drunken

Or maybe your high school coach football banged your head against the bus window one too many times. scratch

But even a U of A grad should be able to look at a stat sheet and see that Stanley Johnson sucks. It ain't rocked science. lol
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Is The Reason Stanley Johnson Is So Stupid Is Because He Went To Arizona???

Post  Murph on Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:30 am

We know Stanley Johnson is stupid.  I mean after all, he can't even figure out that he can't shoot.  I mean the freaking moron continues to shoot 29% from the 3 point line, but this year, he shot even more 3 pointers.

And we know Arizona is a crappy school.  I mean they accept almost everyone who applied.  79%

Coinkidink?  I hardly think so.   Stanley Johnson is as dumb as a box of rocks.  And he's Don's favorite player.  lol lol lol


Last edited by Murph on Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bucks... Nine straight series losses, new NBA record!

Post  Oracle on Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:32 pm

How many more years will we hear how good the Bucks are... they SUCK!

Beaten by a Boston team they should be able to eliminate in 5-6 games at most! Boston down two major players, and losing another in game 7!

With for sure the best player on the floor and arguably the two best players on the floor!

While they do lack coaching and a PG that fits the team, just like we do, that's no excuse for getting beaten by a team that will be lucky to win another game in the playoffs.

This Buck team hasn't ever gotten as good or better than the team that had Knight as their PG.

Please, I'm sick of hearing how much better they are than us, but I loved how Morris and Baynes are key players for Boston.

Idiot SVG let KCP walk(when he could have gotten something) and traded Morris to Boston for the horribly inferior Bradley.
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What will SVG and the Piston's owner say now after Mitchell scores 38 points to beat the Thunder?

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:17 pm

It is as easy to identify the smart front office executives from the dumb as it is when it comes to NBA coaching staffs. Too bad the Pistons have the dumb and dumber running both entities. While I explored the Pacers decision making skills it is just as easy to compare the Pistons to Utah. Utah never says in the dumb mode for long. They lose a star player to Boston and the Pistons have a mind fart on Mitchell and bam Utah hits a home run. But this was no fluke. When owners have personal attachments with players, hire inept front office planners, ignore the advise of the head coach and GM to sign an often injured former semi star, protect the starting point guard from competition because one player has a special relationship with that point guard, then all bets are off relating to creating a roster any sane person can understand. Going into next season the Pistons are banking on AD, BG and RJ along with Jon Leuer and Langston Galloway. Plus the Pistons gave away their first round pick because the owner got tired of negotiating. Or was it Brower and SVG who were in charge of the negotiations with the Clippers? The rest of the roster players take a look at who is making all the money and must feel sick about being on this Piston team.

Reggie Jackson looks feeble. He has old legs. Reggie looks like he is gasping for air after expending energy on offense especially in the last two seasons. I had thought this would be his last season with the Pistons but he has two years to go. AD loves Reggie so that is the way it will be. No turning back now. Everything is in Reggie Jackson's hands. Meanwhile, Jackson is the worst starting defensive point guard in the league. Nobody else is close to his incompetence. What are the odds of Jackson playing 75% of the regular season games. Jackson was not a starter before he signed his Piston contract. No coach could trust him on defense and no coach liked his ball dominance tendencies. With all the great guards we have watched for the Pistons in the past, where does Jackson rank as a starter? Can he compete with point guards currently in the playoffs or who played for teams that made the playoffs? Why would an owner or GM ever spend that kind of money on a player like Reggie Jackson? Reggie is not going to get better. Yet Piston management never worried about that possibility. They are selling the story line - a healthy Reggie will bring dividends when he forms the trio. Three mega stars to go with Leuer and Galloway.

AD is the empty headed stat accumulator and close friend of the owner. He might improve some this next season but his basketball IQ is not good enough in my opinion. If he is engaged will be the big question that has haunted him for his entire career. The Pistons might be able to trade him now and should just to reduce their payroll. But that is not going to happen.

Blake Griffin most likely will be sitting on the bench with Reggie as the injuries pile up relating to his knees and back. The tough get going in January and February because that is when the body really starts hurting. The beauty of those guaranteed contracts is that if you are a star, you can do as you please. Remember Zeke who played through the pain exceptionally well. He hated losing unlike our Big 5. They are used to losing. It is nothing new for them.

Galloway was in and out of the rotation this year. Why did the Pistons give him a big long term contract? Indiana only gave one year contracts to proven playoff players for close to the money Leuer and Galloway received. Does SVG have such a low opinion of Detroit that he thinks no player will sign a contract unless they over pay them.

Leuer got his butt kicked by everyone in the league two seasons ago. He can't defend either centers or power forwards. His mid range game is below average. His 3 point shooting skill set is unreliable. So why was he offered a long term $10 mil contract? Did he have playoff experience? Was he a key player on his previous Suns team? No he failed the test in Phoenix. His worth might have been in the $3Mil range for one season. What team was competing with the Pistons for his services? I don't hate Leuer. He is a good man and he got real lucky. Good for him. But SVG has failed the test badly. He has failed as the coach and President.The Pistons are worse off now than any time that I can remember. That is due to the size of immoveable contracts. Five contracts involving BG. RJ, AD, JL and LG have taken away HOPE. What team looking to improve their team would be calling the Pistons this summer or at the end of next season? Only one player has any chance of being moved. This team cannot beat any good team on a night when that team is playing well. The Pistons need to catch teams on their off nights. The highest paid player are not capable or running a complex offense where the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option is an option. The BG is the only player with a high basketball IQ within that group of the 5 highest paid Piston players.

Discussing players like Kennard, Henry E., Bullock, Johnson and Moreland can be fun but they are not in a position to become team leaders. The highest paid players are always the players coaches are forced to play and they have a big impact on how things will be fun. I see no way there is a future for Stanley Johnson on this team due to the current payroll structure. They will not be able to afford his new contract so expect another low IQ trade by our Piston management team. I just hope they get a draft pick for him.

If anyone can make any sense of what has happened speak up? Otherwise it is time to sign off for the summer.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:37 pm

cool breeze wrote:Has Murph been hired by SVG to distract Piston fans from realizing total destruction has taken place relating to the Pistons future? I must be Johnson's fault as to why the Pistons suck. It can't be the fault of the way this roster was constructed by a silly owner and perhaps a President, GM and head coach who is completely incompetent or intentionally destroyed the Detroit Pistons. A 15 year old kid who never watched an NBA game could have done a much better job constructing this Piston team. After watching the Cleveland-Indiana game, I decided to take a look at the Pacers financial picture compared with the Pistons. The results are SHOCKING. Here are the facts that Piston fans should be concentrating on instead of spending time in the sewer with Murph.

In 2017 Pacers President Kevin Pritchard hired 44 year old Chad Buchanan as their new GM. As of today Indiana's payroll stands at $179,466,695. Meanwhile the Piston's payroll currently is $370,165,932. While Tom Gores has treated the Pistons as his play thing with this weird relationship with AD, the Pacers owner has two smart executives who might be the smarted duo in the entire NBA. It is clear that the combination of insanity by the owner and the incompetence of SVG and his large staff if idiots are pure poison. I am now going to compare the current rosters of the two franchises. We Piston fans have been betrayed for sure as you will see.

PACERS DATA:
Pacers current roster players - Age - contract length- 2018-19 Salary

Victor Oladipo                         25          4 yrs                 $21M
Thaddeus Young                     29         last year             $13,754,045
Bojan Boganovic                     29         last year             $10,500,000
Darren Collison                       30         last year             $10,000,000
Al Jefferson                            33         last year             $10,000,000
Cory Joseph                           26         last year             $7,945,000
Lance Stevenson                    27         last year             $4,360.000
Miles Turner                           22         last year             $3,410,000
Domantas Sebonis                  21         first year Rookie  $2,659,800
Glen Robinson                        24         last year              $1,524,305
Joe Young                              25         last year              $1,600,520
Ike Anigbogu                         19         exp. 2020             $1,378,242
Monte Ellis (waived)               33        through 2022         $2,245,400
TJ Leaf                                  20       first year rookie      $2,407,560    

PISTON DATA: TOTAL PAYROLL $370,165,932

Blake Griffin                         29       expires 2022           $31,873,932 - $38,957,028
Andre Drummond                 24       expires (PO) 2021   $25,434,263 - $28,751,775
Reggie Jackson                     28       expires 2020          $17,043,478 - $18,086,956
Jon Leuer                             28       expires 2020          $10,002,000 - $9,508,043
Lanston Galloway                  26       expires 2020          $7,000,000 $7,333,333
Ish Smith                             29       last year                $6,000,000
Stanley Johnson                    21      last year Rookie      $3,940,000
Reggie Bullock                      27       last year                $2,500,000
Luke Kennard                       21       first year R. 2021   $3,275,280 - $5,275,280
Nelson (aka Butter Ball)                   Gone
Henry Ellenson                     21       expires 2020          $1,826,300 -$1,913,267
Eric Moreland                       26       expires 2020          $1,826,300 - $1,913,267
Anthony Tolliver                   32       Gone                    Last season - $3,290,000
Josh Smith                                     2020                      $5,400,000

look at the top highest paid Piston players and compare those players with any other roster in the league. Plus I believe as many others do that Anthony Tolliver was the most valuable player on the team last season. His spirit, effort and skill made him my pick for MVP. Meanwhile, Leuer was not in the rotation of the Suns when the Pistons signed him to his lucky contract. Add Galloway's contract and you can see how the Piston front office has destroyed everything. Why didn't they pick up some of the players the Pacers got so easily at a reasonable price? Just watching Jeff Brower and SVG walk together at the chicago Combine last summer gave me a sick feeling. They do not look healthy and are extremely over weight. Those two together passing on Mitchell and signing 4th rate players at a high price makes me suspicious that they were trying to destroy the franchise. Meanwhile, Tom Gores did the most damage when he want against advise of everyone in the Pistons front office when he made that trade with the Clippers. He helped the Clippers for sure. He moved the Pistons downtown so they could play in an empty arena. The Pacer fans can get a good laugh knowing they have clever planners who have a hard working smart team that has taken Labron James to the 7th game in the first round of the playoffs. The Pistons with that roster are toast with that roster. But Murph is very concerned about Stanley Johnson who for sure will not be with the Pistons for long. Good for him. In his position, who would not want out? No player in his right mind would want to get stuck on this Piston team knowing which players are making all the money. We are screwed and the players making the least amount of money are screwed.


I forgot to include the fact that the Pacers will be drafting in the first round unlike our Pistons. It really doesn't matter now if SVG is fired. What does matter is if that happens that nobody in the current front office staff is retained or elevated into the GM position. They all should go along with SVG. That also includes the entire coaching staff. Focus on the contracts. I see no chance of any of the top 5 highest paid Pistons offering trade material. Johnson's contract will expire and he will be a free agent too so unless a sign and trade could be worked out, Johnson's trade value is nil. We need to forget this team.

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Has SVG deliberately sabotaged the Detroit Pistons knowing Tom Gores is just another rich idiot? The following will blow all the trust you had left in this owner and his front office.

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:59 pm

Has Murph been hired by SVG to distract Piston fans from realizing total destruction has taken place relating to the Pistons future? I must be Johnson's fault as to why the Pistons suck. It can't be the fault of the way this roster was constructed by a silly owner and perhaps a President, GM and head coach who is completely incompetent or intentionally destroyed the Detroit Pistons. A 15 year old kid who never watched an NBA game could have done a much better job constructing this Piston team. After watching the Cleveland-Indiana game, I decided to take a look at the Pacers financial picture compared with the Pistons. The results are SHOCKING. Here are the facts that Piston fans should be concentrating on instead of spending time in the sewer with Murph.

In 2017 Pacers President Kevin Pritchard hired 44 year old Chad Buchanan as their new GM. As of today Indiana's payroll stands at $179,466,695. Meanwhile the Piston's payroll currently is $370,165,932. While Tom Gores has treated the Pistons as his play thing with this weird relationship with AD, the Pacers owner has two smart executives who might be the smarted duo in the entire NBA. It is clear that the combination of insanity by the owner and the incompetence of SVG and his large staff if idiots are pure poison. I am now going to compare the current rosters of the two franchises. We Piston fans have been betrayed for sure as you will see.

PACERS DATA:
Pacers current roster players - Age - contract length- 2018-19 Salary

Victor Oladipo 25 4 yrs $21M
Thaddeus Young 29 last year $13,754,045
Bojan Boganovic 29 last year $10,500,000
Darren Collison 30 last year $10,000,000
Al Jefferson 33 last year $10,000,000
Cory Joseph 26 last year $7,945,000
Lance Stevenson 27 last year $4,360.000
Miles Turner 22 last year $3,410,000
Domantas Sebonis 21 first year Rookie $2,659,800
Glen Robinson 24 last year $1,524,305
Joe Young 25 last year $1,600,520
Ike Anigbogu 19 exp. 2020 $1,378,242
Monte Ellis (waived) 33 through 2022 $2,245,400
TJ Leaf 20 first year rookie $2,407,560

PISTON DATA: TOTAL PAYROLL $370,165,932

Blake Griffin 29 expires 2022 $31,873,932 - $38,957,028
Andre Drummond 24 expires (PO) 2021 $25,434,263 - $28,751,775
Reggie Jackson 28 expires 2020 $17,043,478 - $18,086,956
Jon Leuer 28 expires 2020 $10,002,000 - $9,508,043
Lanston Galloway 26 expires 2020 $7,000,000 $7,333,333
Ish Smith 29 last year $6,000,000
Stanley Johnson 21 last year Rookie $3,940,000
Reggie Bullock 27 last year $2,500,000
Luke Kennard 21 first year R. 2021 $3,275,280 - $5,275,280
Nelson (aka Butter Ball) Gone
Henry Ellenson 21 expires 2020 $1,826,300 -$1,913,267
Eric Moreland 26 expires 2020 $1,826,300 - $1,913,267
Anthony Tolliver 32 Gone Last season - $3,290,000
Josh Smith 2020 $5,400,000

look at the top highest paid Piston players and compare those players with any other roster in the league. Plus I believe as many others do that Anthony Tolliver was the most valuable player on the team last season. His spirit, effort and skill made him my pick for MVP. Meanwhile, Leuer was not in the rotation of the Suns when the Pistons signed him to his lucky contract. Add Galloway's contract and you can see how the Piston front office has destroyed everything. Why didn't they pick up some of the players the Pacers got so easily at a reasonable price? Just watching Jeff Brower and SVG walk together at the chicago Combine last summer gave me a sick feeling. They do not look healthy and are extremely over weight. Those two together passing on Mitchell and signing 4th rate players at a high price makes me suspicious that they were trying to destroy the franchise. Meanwhile, Tom Gores did the most damage when he want against advise of everyone in the Pistons front office when he made that trade with the Clippers. He helped the Clippers for sure. He moved the Pistons downtown so they could play in an empty arena. The Pacer fans can get a good laugh knowing they have clever planners who have a hard working smart team that has taken Labron James to the 7th game in the first round of the playoffs. The Pistons with that roster are toast with that roster. But Murph is very concerned about Stanley Johnson who for sure will not be with the Pistons for long. Good for him. In his position, who would not want out? No player in his right mind would want to get stuck on this Piston team knowing which players are making all the money. We are screwed and the players making the least amount of money are screwed.


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And Arizona Is A Crappy School With A Corrupt Basketball Program

Post  Murph on Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:58 pm

And I would be ashamed to be an alum of such a miserable school.  

79% acceptance rate?  I'm surprised you could even get in there.
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Who Said Stanley Johnson Would Be Good????

Post  Murph on Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:37 pm

Stanley Johnson sucks big donkey dong.
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Bucks-Celtics game going to another game 7. Who is sitting on the bench in this series that many said would be an All Star when he was with the Pistons?

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:32 pm

The forgotten man in the series is Greg Monroe. I am not sure why is is not getting much playing time but would guess that he is not on the floor because he can't play defense against anyone well except for our Andre Drummond. The Pistons cannot match the talent that any of the playoff teams currently have on their rosters. The Pistons have fallen to the bottom of the heap. The Piston front office have been masters at creating rosters that finish either with the 8th seed with no chance of winning one game or in that pack who are mediocre teams that seldom get a really good draft pick. Some of the playoff teams have such smart GMs that they still managed to not only be successful in the playoffs but still use their draft picks so well that they end up with some of the best players while drafting behind our Pistons. Most of the playoff teams have 8 to 9 players who know how to play basketball well, are fundamentally sound, plus they all play with high energy and look highly engaged. These players know that you have to play together and sacrifice for each other or you will lose. Many teams who seldom make the playoffs have players who accumulate great stats who never buy in to sacrificing what you want for yourself to play a different way to make the team better. That is something our key players do not know.

THE PISTONS CURRENT FINANCIAL POSITION PROVES THE INCOMPETENCE OF THE OWNER AND HIS FRONT OFFICE. Smart GMs and owners believe in balance within the roster. Successful teams do not ignore the value of the draft. Good teams need a blend of young talented players on their first contracts with some proven war tested vets who know how to lead others and teach other teammates how to win. Last season, Marcus Morris tried with the players only meeting to convince his teammates that if they stay on the same course with AD and RJ running the show, then the blowouts will continue. The owner decided he didn't mind the blowouts and was content to allow his chosen one AD to be known as the team leader. SVG was also content with losing so in my opinion, the team after the players only meeting was perhaps the worst Piston team that Have seen in my lifetime. They had no spirit. They were impossible to cheer for anymore. And with that said, this owner never learned one thing from that dismal season. Morris was moved. Now he is very effective playing with better teammates and a great coach.

This owner, SVG, Brower and al the underlings in the front office are responsible for creating the BIG THREE. Most of the Piston's payroll is going to those three players. The financial picture is not pretty. There is no balance. Two of the players, AD and RJ would not be highly sought players by any team currently playing in the playoffs. Most likely both would be on the bench like Greg Monroe if they were on one of those teams. And their GM would be on the phone trying to move them much like the Clippers did with Blake Griffin. By the way how many games has Griffin competed in relating to the playoffs? I think if healthy he would fit in but I do not think AD or RJ could fit in. They are both too slow mentally to hold their own on defense and not smart enough to play on a top tier team that can run the 2nd, 3rd and 4th options in a more complex half court offense. I come to the conclusion that no current teams would be agreeable to take on the contracts of Reggie Jackson, Blake Griffin or Andre Drummond. Wouldn't the Bucks pass on Drummond when they have a young guy on a small contract in Maker? Since he has been in the starting lineup the Bucks paint defense has become much better. And Maker is a skinny young kid with very little basketball experience. So for the Bucks, AD and his $20+ million a year would make every GM hesitate regardless of his stats that Piston management love to promote. Can AD play defense good enough to make an impact in the playoffs when the game speeds up and all the top players challenge the defenders in the paint all of the time. What if Danny Ainge believes that Brad Stevens can create the monster defensive ace that we Piston fans want from him. AD wants to improve on his offense. He is given a green light to do as he wishes with the Pistons due to his special relationship with the owner. What if Stevens could get AD on the right path and he does unleash his full potential as a player? Boston needs a center. The Pistons need better financial balance and a number on draft pick. Trading AD to Boston could be a good thing for both teams. Detroit could get some battle tested players with a high draft pick. Boston gets their paint protector.

Drummond is the only player in the BIG THREE crew that is tradable. Nobody wants Reggie Jackson except SVG and Andre Drummond relating to people who get a pay check in the NBA. However, I do not believe that Brad Stevens wants to coach AD. Nobody wants to coach AD. And all the Pistons really have is a fat payroll with 3 alleged stars that no GM would take a gamble on due to the size of their contracts and their playing history. Soon their only option relating to making a trade will involve Stanley Johnson. Johnson should jump at the chance of taking a sign and trade deal even though he will be free after next season. Playing another season with Jackson making all of the decisions should make any player run for the fences. Could the Pistons get an expiring contract player and a number one pick at least? Who knows but teams do know about his effort and defensive ability. Making that deal could have a positive effect being that the Pistons will lose their only competent defender which should create more loses and get them a higher pick the following summer. The Pistons trading options are almost non existent. But if SVG gets Leuer in the starting lineup again, Griffin's knees swell to the point he can't play, RJ plays his normal defense, AD plays his normal defense, then maybe just maybe the Pistons could get a lop 5 pick next year. So all of you who are paying to watch the Pistons. make sure you call to cancel your subscription before the first regular season game or you will get charged and be forced to watch the Big Three lineup for the tip off after a summer of bonding. Some of you will be crying and screaming for the coach to play Buycks. But Buycks might be included in the Stanley Johnson trade. Can't create too much competition for our highly paid point guards. Piston management is pretty clever to always eliminate completion for playing time when it comes to the PT Barum promotion of their star franchise players who are right on the edge of making the All star team every summer. Nobody in their right mind should want to be the Pistons new GM unless that person is broke.

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Greats

Post  Sparma on Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:00 am

That's a convincing top three, Murph. Wilt's the wild card for me; the best stats ever, but just didn't win enough (even granting that Boston had the better team again and again) to sit at the very top.

Murph wrote:I don't really care for Lebron or the way the NBA refs give him ridiculous calls, but you have to give the devil his due.  Who in NBA history is better?  

I would take MJ and Kareem over Lebron.

But who else?  Magic?  Wilt?  Kobe?  Shaq?  Duncan?  Maybe.

Bird?  Oscar?  Olajuwon?  Russell?  Definitely not.

It a pretty short list, and Lebron is pretty high up on that list.  And Lebron's career ain't over yet.  If he goes to LA and stays healthy, he could play at a high level for another 5 years.
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All Time Greats

Post  Murph on Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:15 am

I don't really care for Lebron or the way the NBA refs give him ridiculous calls, but you have to give the devil his due. Who in NBA history is better?

I would take MJ and Kareem over Lebron.

But who else? Magic? Wilt? Kobe? Shaq? Duncan? Maybe.

Bird? Oscar? Olajuwon? Russell? Definitely not.

It a pretty short list, and Lebron is pretty high up on that list. And Lebron's career ain't over yet. If he goes to LA and stays healthy, he could play at a high level for another 5 years.
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Just Stop It

Post  WTF on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:38 am

I like Bron but why do this generation want to consistently compare him to MJ or say he's better?   Bron is a beast amongst boys compared to the level of competition MJ faced game after game.   Yet it seems this generation can't see beyond the numbers here's just one of the many things they use to make their case and how I rebut them over and over.

1. Lebron was younger than MJ when he went to the Finals and won a Finals and then I rebut Lebron didn't have to beat Bird and Zeke. Lebron should be on the losing end of this debate all the time but I just can't seem to get it in their big hard heads because they swear they're are looking at the great basketball being played.   

I get it they never seen actual basketball being played in the 80's hell the 90's either but it don't keep them from making that claim.  Still when I say to them that MJ would have had 8 undefeated NBA Final had he not took 2 season off they're still not convinced.  

I tried telling them that MJ had to compete against well over the Top 50 Greatest the like of which Lebron has never seen since coming into the league.  If I could just take them back in time to watch 1 full season of the 80's and full season from the 90's of what MJ went through they might think differently
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