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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Next Level

Post  Murph Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:27 pm

Thanks Oracle, but Wise has pretty much been saying the same thing since the beginning of the season, with his "next level" argument. Even when we were 14-6, Wise was skeptical that this team could contend in the long run, as currently constructed. It just took me a while longer to come to the same conclusion.

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty We need a Star or a budding Star, so who to give up?

Post  Oracle Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:13 pm

Would you package up Reggie with Stanley, Ellenson & Kennard to get a star?
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Great post Murph!

Post  Oracle Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:48 pm

This is one of those posts where you read it and realize that all of the facts were right in front of your face and you didn't put them together.

Both Reggie and Bradley are 27 and neither have any upside left. Harris has likely peaked.

Stanley is ruined beyond repair, and the cast of retreads/scrubs stink bad enough to leave a ring around the toilet.

I do think Drummond has upside, even if he keeps his scoring and rebounding the same, if he becomes a defensive demon, that changes a lot.

You're right that while Ellenson & Kenard have a lot of upside, a lot of it will be lost being under the wing of SVG, and they likely weren't going to be all stars, let alone franchise players.

It was just 2 years ago that the world saw us as the next challenger to Cleveland and POOF, it's gone!

SVG had ruined a potentially good thing and replaced it with a team that should make the playoffs before falling apart in the next 2 years... in short, we're on a road to nowhere!

It's tough medicine to swallow, but... Great job Murph.
Murph wrote:Great win last night.  It was desperately needed and well deserved.

But you know what's beginning to dawn on me?  This team has pretty much reached it full potential.  Who on this team is going to get better?  Drummond?  He's playing out of his mind, but 15 and 15 is about as good as he'll ever be.  Reggie?  He's playing well, but with his asthma and bad knees, will he get any better?  No.  Bradley?  He 6'2 and 27 years old, and he won't even be here next year.  Harris?  He's a very good player and might get a little better, but not much.  Ish?  This is the best I've ever seen him play.  Tolliver?  He's already on the decline.  Moreland?  Bad hands.  Galloway?  Nope.  Bullock?  Trash.  Leuer?  Please.

So that leaves our 3 young draft picks.  SJ literally has not improved since the day we drafted him, and might have regressed.   Kennard and Ellenson?  Yes, they still have a lot of upside potential.  But will either of them even become All-Stars or even team leaders?  Probably not.

My point is, this team is about as good as it's ever going to get...and we're currently tied for 8th place in a surprisingly competitive Eastern Conference.


SVG has screwed the pooch.  I keep harping on this, but the Turd has mortgaged our future.   He has shipped out of town all of our young talent, in order to collect a bunch of cast-offs, journeymen and retreads, who have little to no upside potential.

Four years ago, the Turd took over a team full of young talent with seemingly unlimited upside.  Now?  We're a fully mature team, that's made one trip to the playoffs, and is currently fighting for 8th place in the East.
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Great Win, But..

Post  Murph Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:11 am

Great win last night.  It was desperately needed and well deserved.

But you know what's beginning to dawn on me?  This team has pretty much reached it full potential.  Who on this team is going to get better?  Drummond?  He's playing out of his mind, but 15 and 15 is about as good as he'll ever be.  Reggie?  He's playing well, but with his asthma and bad knees, will he get any better?  No.  Bradley?  He 6'2 and 27 years old, and he won't even be here next year.  Harris?  He's a very good player and might get a little better, but not much.  Ish?  This is the best I've ever seen him play.  Tolliver?  He's already on the decline.  Moreland?  Bad hands.  Galloway?  Nope.  Bullock?  Trash.  Leuer?  Please.

So that leaves our 3 young draft picks.  SJ literally has not improved since the day we drafted him, and might have regressed.   Kennard and Ellenson?  Yes, they still have a lot of upside potential.  But will either of them even become All-Stars or even team leaders?  Probably not.

My point is, this team is about as good as it's ever going to get...and we're currently tied for 8th place in a surprisingly competitive Eastern Conference.


SVG has screwed the pooch.  I keep harping on this, but the Turd has mortgaged our future.   He has shipped out of town all of our young talent, in order to collect a bunch of cast-offs, journeymen and retreads, who have little to no upside potential.

Four years ago, the Turd took over a team full of young talent with seemingly unlimited upside.  Now?  We're a fully mature team, that's made one trip to the playoffs, and is currently fighting for 8th place in the East.

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Life sucks when you're a Runt: This is what Bradley & Stanley have to deal with...

Post  Oracle Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:46 am

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty So He Really Is That Stupid

Post  BallinD Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:14 am

cool breeze wrote:
Oracle wrote:I wanted to say we would blow them out before the game, but thought I better not jinx them Smile

Much needed win!!!

Yes it was!

That was the team that I fell in love with in the first regular season game and up until the Denver game. As it turns out Bradley had the flu in that game. Fans never can really know the real story because we are only spectators. You need to be involved with the team to get a clear picture of how things are going relating to team chemistry.
Ok, so if Bradley played with the flu and we have all this depth at SG...Galloway and Kennard, isn't that even more of an indictment of Stupid Van Gundy.  What do you have depth for if you won't use it??  Trying to break out of a losing streak, said "sick" player is playing poorly, but hey, if you're SVG just run him out there to stink it up.  WTF?!?!  "My bad, that one was on me," as SVG, for the 1,274th time admits he lost another game for the team.
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Post  cool breeze Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:27 am

Oracle wrote:I wanted to say we would blow them out before the game, but thought I better not jinx them Smile

Much needed win!!!

Yes it was!

That was the team that I fell in love with in the first regular season game and up until the Denver game. As it turns out Bradley had the flu in that game. Fans never can really know the real story because we are only spectators. You need to be involved with the team to get a clear picture of how things are going relating to team chemistry. In the warm ups Drummond and Johnson were having fun mixing it up. During the game, i enjoyed some interesting comments by the announcers who had talked to Johnson about his current situation. Stanley wants to come off the bench and feels he can contribute more with that unit. Players do care about the team.

Henry Ellenson was jumping up and down showing he is the best cheerleader on this team. then he finally gets in and makes a quick dribble drive and pull up for a nice 8 footer. Perfect for the evening for Henry. The players looked like they were having fun. The guys on the bench looked excited too.

The 2nd unit got this team going. Moreland came in and I think he took 3 charges and played with great effort every minute he was in the game. Somehow I think that Drummond summons more energy while on the bench watching Moreland's movement. AD played with high intensity passing the ball well in the motion offense.

Galloway-Galloway Galloway. The player of the game in my opinion was Langston Galloway. He as the best Piston point guard in this game. I didn't see him make a turnover. There was no showboating or ball hogging by Galloway. He got the first pass in and the motion offense was back full force. And Langston played his ass off on defense. What was it something like 5 three pointers drilled by Galloway too.. What an amazing quick release Galloway has perfected. Lately he has been missing his shots but Langston made some shots in the Denver game and tonight I thought was he best game of the season. If only this team can get two players hot from beyond the three point line in every game, winning might be a lot easier.

As SVG pointed out the best players on the team are AD, Harris, Bradley and Jackson. Harris and Bradley did their jobs in this game. AD was outstanding at times. Jackson had one positive in my opinion. He is trying harder to play defense with more passion. But his overall floor game was very sloppy against. Reggie please dial it up a notch against Indiana.

Bullock played well as a starter. His shooting touch may have returned. And Reggie played unselfishly. I had counted him out for the season but not true. The starting unit still does not play well together usually in the first half of the first quarter and in the 3rd quarter of games. These NBA games are long and maybe too long. It is good that the coach is using a lot of players.

Now to get Kennard and Tolliver knocking down the long ball more. I think this team can only be successful if they run a more disciplined offense. And the motion offense fits them real well. When the players and the ball are moving and the team uses both sides of the court with solid screens taking place, there is no reason to believe that they will not win their share of basketball games. Make the defense work. Limit transition baskets. Play smart. Stick together regardless of what is being said when the team loses close games. Both Jackson and Smith need to clean some things up and become more disciplined with their approach to running the offense. Keep the turnovers down please and just have fun. Go Pistons!

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Wow, we needed that...

Post  Oracle Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:38 pm

I wanted to say we would blow them out before the game, but thought I better not jinx them Smile

Much needed win!!!
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Don

Post  Oracle Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:08 pm

Don wrote: Avery Bradley is still a very good basketball player Oracle. You have never liked him for some reason.
Just to be clear, it's NOT Avery Bradley I don't like, I'm sure he's a very nice person, and I do love the pickup since we were losing KCP and he appears to be a better player and more experienced.

My complaints about him are well documented, and I have many stated reasons, I don't see him being a solution for us beyond this year.

The biggest complaint is the exact same reason Boston got rid of him... he's too small for the modern NBA.

In an era where 6'2 point guards are considered small, a 6'2 shooting guard in a pipsqueak! He's a runt, and immediately we start getting out rebounded once the larger KCP & Morris were gone.

That's also another nail in Stanley Johnson's coffin, he's a bit of a runt at SF, we're much better served with the 6'9 Harris and the 6'11 Ellenson at PF, IMO.

If Stanley could show something, we might be able to justify playing him, but at this point, I'd have him on the deep end of the bench, there's no value to playing him too much... play Kennard his minutes and I bet we get much better results.

Defense is important, but it isn't everything, and there's a time in a players career to force it upon them. Zeke believes that you should let them flex their offensive muscles first, then drive defensive principles later... worked for the Bad Boys!

So let Ellenson and Kennard do their thing and stop the defense excuse, it's getting old, and look what it did to Stanley! SVG crushed the kids confidence is what I see happening, and it's likely too late to save him!
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty I was Gipped

Post  lemonpen Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:22 pm

cool breeze wrote:
Oracle wrote:
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/12/13/16755038/pistons-by-the-numbers-losing-streaks-make-for-ugly-statistics wrote:Though Tobias Harris and Drummond haven’t been as dominant as they were while the team was winning, they’re not the primary culprits of the drop. Not even Reggie Jackson, despite a few ugly games from him.

Avery Bradley, Stanley Johnson, and Ish Smith have just been disastrous. Bradley has had a TS of 44 percent while Johnson and Ish have each posted 37 percent.
But it gets worse,
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749122-detroit-pistons-on-historic-slide-after-phenomenal-start-to-2017-18 wrote:Tuesday's defeat marked the Pistons' seventh straight, making them just the second team in NBA history to start a season 14-6 or better and have a losing streak of seven or more games later in the campaign
Even Van Gundy hasn't seen crap this bad!

”That was extremely bad basketball,” Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy said. ”That’s one of the worst losses I’ve ever had as a coach, and I’ve coached 850-some games between the regular season and the playoffs.”

Which leaves me looking as clueless as this guy....
FORUM - Page 12 3i1IHdj

I wish everyone would be careful what you wish for relating to this current bump in the road. I call the slump a bump because I have really enjoyed watching this group of rotation players fight this season. SVG said the last game was the worst loss he has ever had as a coach. Meanwhile SVG changed his lineup and his players feel his panic. It is not fun when the coach shows panic before games even start. This group of players seemed to have the best team chemistry that I have witnessed for many years. The team has gone though a really tough schedule. They lost some really hard fought games because some of their shots did not fall. When loses pile up with even really great established NBA teams not young teams like our Pistons, then the fans quickly lose faith and demand big changes. While I believe in the long run this team needs better franchise players and the highest paid players must be leaders and play in a superior way all of the time, there is a blend on this current team that had been working well before his losing streak started. The coach appears to be scraping what did work because he is a panic type individual and is not looking at the big picture. Maybe he feels his job is on the line. But this is what I wish SVG would tell his players. I have faith in you as a group. You have proven that you can beat the best teams in the league on any given night. You as players cannot allow a bad shooting streak to destroy what you have started to build as a team. You must trust each other and not go off on your own. You must play harder with more concentration and trust in the motion offense which means sharing the basketball, screening and moving the ball from side to side and making the extra pass.

Oracle the Piston high command changed the ingredients that made the Pistons a solid team even though they lost close games. The horrible performance was a direct result of SVG's tinkering that completely changed the make up and effectiveness of the 2nd unit. Avery Bradley is still a very good basketball player Oracle. You have never liked him for some reason. The reason why Bradley is out of sync now is because the offense is now running just like it did last season when KCP looked out of sync. Instead of the coach doing whatever he has to do to force the key players (point guard and center) to get the motion offense up and running quickly in the half court set, SVG decided to scrap the entire idea of running the motion offense. He tinkered with the lineup changing the effectiveness of the 2nd unit and destroying any chemistry the starters had when they played with such passion. This losing streak can happen to any team and does. The Pistons had been an effective team even when they lost. Now they are exactly like last year's team based on what I saw in this last game. SVG is on thin ice. If SVG had started Kennard who had at least been in the rotation, then maybe the other starters would have accepted him. AD really likes Stanley Johnson. Johnson helps AD in the paint on defense. Johnson gets AD the ball on the occasional times he does get to touch the basketball. With SVG in charge and his knee jerk reactions to tough times well known, players feel betrayed by him. AD is very emotional. He did not like the tinkering idea which meant that SVG had given up on the group of players he had been going to war with during the good and bad moments. To me this last loss and how the team performed rests directly on SVG's shoulders not the shoulders of Avery Bradley. If the coach creates any more drama i am out because this last game gave me no pleasure at all. All of the other loses provided me with some pleasure because our players had moments when they played together as a group the right way. It was fun to watch Ellenson have some success but he was playing after there was no doubt of the final result. Galloway had a hot shooting night too. But I do not want to go though another season of watching mindless run and gun basketball by our team while playing extremely weak defense. However, I am still hopeful that maybe this team reached the bottom against Denver. Yet if SVG plays that same lineup I expect more of the same. The coach of all people needs to get a grip on himself. He is acting like a fan. SVG made no adjustments in this last game. Maybe he should focus on what he did wrong.  

When you lose like we have the last couple of weeks aren't you usually overly anxious to beat the snot out of the first beatable opponent you see ??? So where was the OVER-anxiousness. Honestly, I sat there wondering if Stan ran them through some overly taxing practice. I was convinced that there had to be a reason. The starters were somewhere south of minus 15 by the half. The bench did fine as they reduced a 10pt deficit to 3. All I know is the 2 supposed leaders lead the retreat.

Nope. That performance screams for a change.
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Post  cool breeze Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:32 pm

Oracle wrote:
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/12/13/16755038/pistons-by-the-numbers-losing-streaks-make-for-ugly-statistics wrote:Though Tobias Harris and Drummond haven’t been as dominant as they were while the team was winning, they’re not the primary culprits of the drop. Not even Reggie Jackson, despite a few ugly games from him.

Avery Bradley, Stanley Johnson, and Ish Smith have just been disastrous. Bradley has had a TS of 44 percent while Johnson and Ish have each posted 37 percent.
But it gets worse,
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749122-detroit-pistons-on-historic-slide-after-phenomenal-start-to-2017-18 wrote:Tuesday's defeat marked the Pistons' seventh straight, making them just the second team in NBA history to start a season 14-6 or better and have a losing streak of seven or more games later in the campaign
Even Van Gundy hasn't seen crap this bad!

”That was extremely bad basketball,” Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy said. ”That’s one of the worst losses I’ve ever had as a coach, and I’ve coached 850-some games between the regular season and the playoffs.”

Which leaves me looking as clueless as this guy....
FORUM - Page 12 3i1IHdj

I wish everyone would be careful what you wish for relating to this current bump in the road. I call the slump a bump because I have really enjoyed watching this group of rotation players fight this season. SVG said the last game was the worst loss he has ever had as a coach. Meanwhile SVG changed his lineup and his players feel his panic. It is not fun when the coach shows panic before games even start. This group of players seemed to have the best team chemistry that I have witnessed for many years. The team has gone though a really tough schedule. They lost some really hard fought games because some of their shots did not fall. When loses pile up with even really great established NBA teams not young teams like our Pistons, then the fans quickly lose faith and demand big changes. While I believe in the long run this team needs better franchise players and the highest paid players must be leaders and play in a superior way all of the time, there is a blend on this current team that had been working well before his losing streak started. The coach appears to be scraping what did work because he is a panic type individual and is not looking at the big picture. Maybe he feels his job is on the line. But this is what I wish SVG would tell his players. I have faith in you as a group. You have proven that you can beat the best teams in the league on any given night. You as players cannot allow a bad shooting streak to destroy what you have started to build as a team. You must trust each other and not go off on your own. You must play harder with more concentration and trust in the motion offense which means sharing the basketball, screening and moving the ball from side to side and making the extra pass.

Oracle the Piston high command changed the ingredients that made the Pistons a solid team even though they lost close games. The horrible performance was a direct result of SVG's tinkering that completely changed the make up and effectiveness of the 2nd unit. Avery Bradley is still a very good basketball player Oracle. You have never liked him for some reason. The reason why Bradley is out of sync now is because the offense is now running just like it did last season when KCP looked out of sync. Instead of the coach doing whatever he has to do to force the key players (point guard and center) to get the motion offense up and running quickly in the half court set, SVG decided to scrap the entire idea of running the motion offense. He tinkered with the lineup changing the effectiveness of the 2nd unit and destroying any chemistry the starters had when they played with such passion. This losing streak can happen to any team and does. The Pistons had been an effective team even when they lost. Now they are exactly like last year's team based on what I saw in this last game. SVG is on thin ice. If SVG had started Kennard who had at least been in the rotation, then maybe the other starters would have accepted him. AD really likes Stanley Johnson. Johnson helps AD in the paint on defense. Johnson gets AD the ball on the occasional times he does get to touch the basketball. With SVG in charge and his knee jerk reactions to tough times well known, players feel betrayed by him. AD is very emotional. He did not like the tinkering idea which meant that SVG had given up on the group of players he had been going to war with during the good and bad moments. To me this last loss and how the team performed rests directly on SVG's shoulders not the shoulders of Avery Bradley. If the coach creates any more drama i am out because this last game gave me no pleasure at all. All of the other loses provided me with some pleasure because our players had moments when they played together as a group the right way. It was fun to watch Ellenson have some success but he was playing after there was no doubt of the final result. Galloway had a hot shooting night too. But I do not want to go though another season of watching mindless run and gun basketball by our team while playing extremely weak defense. However, I am still hopeful that maybe this team reached the bottom against Denver. Yet if SVG plays that same lineup I expect more of the same. The coach of all people needs to get a grip on himself. He is acting like a fan. SVG made no adjustments in this last game. Maybe he should focus on what he did wrong.

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty GM

Post  lemonpen Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:00 pm

It's a good damn thing I'm not the GM. After Tuesday nights debacle Reggie would have beaten Ian Kinsler out of town. All I know is someone has got to go. Not at the deadline, NOW xxxdamit NOW!! (to steal a line from Die Hard) A meaningful statement is necessary. Playin the starters for the final four minutes of a blowout loss isn't nearly a grand enough statement.

RJax has been here too long to have learned so little. At this point the player in return matters less than accomplishing the deed, cause we risk losing the team, again.
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty EllenSON, ElleSON, ElleSON,........

Post  lemonpen Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:46 pm

The chant grows louder. His time has come. The need is now. The door should be open. No deep analysis required.
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Stanley Johnson - The Mystery Decoded

Post  lemonpen Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:44 pm

Sparma wrote:Don, I respect that you've been watching Stanley closely for a long time.  You're right that his shooting from the field has declined since college.  The numbers show that clearly.

I do wonder how you explain his FT shooting remaining about the same, slightly better, in the NBA.  If it's his shooting form that's gone South, this would affect his FT shooting too.  But it hasn't.  My explanation -- focusing on the impact of better defenders against what started as a vulnerable (even untenable) shot in the NBA -- has the advantage of explaining regression from the field as well as stability, even slight improvement, from the stripe.

One possibility, to back your view, would be that he's altered his shot from the field, but not from the stripe.  That's not something I'm seeing.  Is that what you're seeing?

I watched SJ for most of the 15 minute pre-game warm up and was dumbfounded.

Stanley suffers from something called UNprofessionalism.  His preparation is CLOWNISH.  Dude was deep into amusing himself with AND1 delusions.  I can't tell you how many times he took 2 or 3 cross-over dribbles then morphed into a euro travel move to one side of the hoop, only to throw up a wild reverse under hand brick.  Everyone else is warming up on shots they take during the game.  When he did take a hand full of J's,   Brick, Brick, Brick, Brick Make,...ok enough of that, on to some more AND1 moves.  

I fear that this dude is getting out pretty much what he puts in.   Color me disappointed.


Last edited by lemonpen on Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  cool breeze Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:42 pm

Sparma wrote:Don, I respect that you've been watching Stanley closely for a long time.  You're right that his shooting from the field has declined since college.  The numbers show that clearly.

I do wonder how you explain his FT shooting remaining about the same, slightly better, in the NBA.  If it's his shooting form that's gone South, this would affect his FT shooting too.  But it hasn't.  My explanation -- focusing on the impact of better defenders against what started as a vulnerable (even untenable) shot in the NBA -- has the advantage of explaining regression from the field as well as stability, even slight improvement, from the stripe.

One possibility, to back your view, would be that he's altered his shot from the field, but not from the stripe.  That's not something I'm seeing.  Is that what you're seeing?

Sparma my memory of Johnson shooting free throws is not as clear as how different his jump shooting form has changed. What comes to my mind is how he is rushing things even at the free throw line. I seems to rush the first free throw. I thought SJ would have a percentage at this point in time approaching 90%. If I could pull him aside, I would tell Stanley stop rushing his release on both free throws and the jump shot. I wonder how he is practicing his jump shot now compared to the past. His Mother was a pro and she had a lot of influence teaching the fundamentals that show well with his floor game today especially his approach to playing defense. There is no way she would approve of his jump shooting style now. He is rushing things. When he comes to a jump stop his base is not solid. And this flicking technique he is using now makes his release appear clumsy like his hands have no flexibility. The coaching staff encouraged Johnson to create a quicker release. What he is doing now does not look like it fits him. Some golfers can create a swing that looks real weird but somehow creates accuracy. Johnson doesn't need to rush things. He is a selective type of shooter. Johnson takes open shots. He has developed a mid range game off the dribble where he gets the defender off balance but when he jumps backward, his balance is not solid. The great shooters can compensate for that by developing a one handed release. That slight last second adjustment where the finger tips of the dominate hand create that control and back spin makes those shooters get the ball up before the defender can block it but it also feels to the shooter like he is releasing in slow motion relating to how the mind is working. Johnson is coming to an abrupt jump stop that is not always solid with the legs spread wider and he appears to be rushing which causes him to use both hands with his release. There is no control with that technique. Do the Piston's not have any coaches who can help Johnson get rid of this shooting technique that will never work in his entire lifetime?

When Johnson is having success putting the ball in the hole he is a different player. He is a leader but Johnson can not feel that he can lead a team until he becomes a player who is part of the offense and contributes with scoring. His current role on the team does not involve scoring. He is often left out of the offense. the motion offense was designed to get all of the 5 players involved and engaged on offense and to encourage playing both sides of the court. That creates more screening and movement. If Johnson gets 8 shots a game that comes in the half court offense or touches the ball in the half court offense 12 times in an entire game, that is unusual. This team shoots the ball early in the shot clock and often those early shots are low percentage shots and no half court offense is actually attempted. To survive on this current team, Johnson needs to be a prolific defender and shut down the best opposing skill player while helping with all the mistakes AD makes in the paint on defense. And Johnson must up his shooting percentage and make at least half of those 8 shot attempts is gets on a good day.

What I like about Stanley Johnson is that he is a survivor. He has developed into a top defender on a team with many weak defenders. Bradley and Johnson hold this team together on the defensive end. Johnson is only 21 years old and has a high basketball IQ. I have no doubt that he will make the change in his shooting technique and will become a guy who is part of a really good team eventually. But it might not be on this Piston team. This is a run and gun type team where too many players who make the most money are fundamentally unsound. It is difficult to grow as a team with those players. Opponents have an easy time using very little energy defending the current starters. Earlier on the starters were moving without the ball, screens were being set and the ball was moving from side to side. Now this team has gradually sunk back into their old bad habits from past seasons where the shots are going up very quickly before some of the players have reached their spots on offense. The starting center is not moving to the right position at the free throw line quickly enough to get open so the ball can be thrown to him to get the offense rocking. I noticed in the last game where Bradley was waiting for the entry pass to Drummond that never came so he could start his movement. On the other side of the court Bullock was standing much like Johnson knowing that he was not part of anything. The opponent defenders all knew and especially Plumblee that if he made a minor effort to prevent AD from moving to the location he needs to be at to get the offense in sync then everything would break down and the point guards would start going off on their own or making that one pass to Harris for a bailout contested jump shot. Harris is going through a very rough patch as you must know. He must be feeling the pressure of being forced into this bailout type of situation where the team depends on him making very difficult shots in large numbers or the team will lose. If the starters can get more disciplined and not give in to minor resistance from opponent defenders and run the damn offense, then the players will get more open shots. They cannot depend on jump shots along. He must get some action going in the paint. So all this focus on Stanley Johnson being a failure at 21 years of age is pretty silly. He is a valuable NBA player for any team because of his defense and unselfishness. If he is on the trade block, I hope SVG doesn't give him away like Dumars did relating to Middleton. My prediction is that if SVG feels he doesn't fit in with the mindless run and gun style, Johnson will end up with a coach like Jason Kidd eventually who will transform Johnson into a star player. I know that Steve Kerr thinks highly of Johnson. Kerr sure knew how to shoot the jump shot and I am sure he could figure out a way to make Johnson an effective scorer.

I am concerned with the quality of SVG's assistant coaches. Henry Ellenson is another young player about Johnson and Kennard's age who has great potential. Who is working with him with his defense? Why is it that Ellenson is not being developed to play both center and power forward? He looks to have a big frame so why couldn't he become a center who could draw out opposing centers because of his shooting potential from beyond the free throw line? Ellenson appears to have a great motor and can move well off the dribble. Yet he appears raw in many respects. He needs playing time and the assistant coaches should have developed a plan to keep things simple for him when playing defense. Just get to the right spots and learn opposing offenses so you don't get beat on the weak side. Ellenson seems shaky at times guarding the baseline. That makes me wonder what the coaches are doing with him every day in practice. If you are not in the rotation then players like Ellenson should be under strict control of the assistant coaches where they should be working with him for at least 3 hours a day.

By the way I want to mention how much improved Greg Kelser has become as an announcer. He is spot on and is teaching the fans who watch the games on television some basic basketball. Now I wish he could investigate what is going on behind the scenes with the young players in this organization and what the coaches are doing to help those guys become better basketball players. It puzzles me that not one assistant coach has not corrected Johnson's faulty jump shot release and the base he gets off the jump stop before going up for a jumper off the dribble. High school coaches know how to help players in that regard. Players come in and grasp the correct fundamentals quickly if they have the right coach. If the coach fails to know the fundamentals themselves ( and some retired NBA players who become coaches are in that group) then the player is left to figure out things on their own. It appears to me that Johnson has been on his own for a long time. I am sure that Johnson's old coach, Sean Miller, would have corrected Johnson's jump shot a long time ago.

Maybe the Pistons can win this next game. My preference again would be for SVG to go back to the rotation he started with at the beginning of the season. That means Moreland comes off the bench with the 2nd unit. Boban should be used to take AD's minutes if he starts the first and 3rd quarter like he did against Denver. If AD doesn't have it on a given night then don't make him suffer. Put Boban in the game early. He was much more active than AD in this last game. But the 2nd unit was effective because of their teamwork and quickness. They were a great change of pace from our starters. Now with Boban the 2nd unit is sluggish too. The entire focus is getting the ball to Boban which allows the defense to rest as much as they do when playing the starters. So is SVG telling the 2nd unit players " just get the ball to Boban and forget all about what made you so effective in the past"? I think that might be the case. SVG is folding under the pressure of this losing streak. The weight of the world is on his shoulders and the players feel it. Relax SVG and ride out the bad streak and let the players know you believe in them. But please put in Boban when you see AD having a difficult time being "engaged". I still have that image of AD getting that 3 second call in the second half. He wasn't even trying to get open and was standing in the paint for over 5 seconds. What was the ref supposed to do? AD's mind was not in the game. We need the superstar AD to awaken again. Please return to us AD from wherever you have gone.

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty My 2c

Post  lemonpen Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:25 pm

Sparma wrote:First, some data:

1) College: 44.6% FG, 37.1 %, 74.2 FT
2) NBA: 36.5, 29.8, 74.3%

Factual conclusion: Stanley J.'s shooting has gone down for FGs generally and for 3s specifically in the NBA, while his FT% has stayed about the same, even going up a tick.

Interpretation?  What's the best explanation?

Hypothesis 1: His confidence is down.   (Problem: one would expect loss of confidence to apply generally, but in fact his FT shooting is actually up slightly.  I return to this below, suggesting the loss of confidence is initially an effect, and perhaps subsequently a cause.  So I do think there's something to this hypothesis, but it doesn't work as an across the board explanation.)
Hypothesis 2: His shooting stroke has been damaged, presumably by interference by Piston coaches. (Comment: maybe, but again there's the issue that his FT shooting remains about the same.  Is there evidence that his shooting stroke has been altered from the field, but not from the charity stripe?  If so, that would bolster this hypothesis.  I'm not aware of any such evidence, however.)
Hypothesis 3: A combination of 1 & 2.  (Same issues as above).
Hypothesis 4: Stanley's shooting % from the field has been diminished due to the tougher competition he faces in the NBA.  (Comment: sounds plausible to me.  I doubted SJ's low release would fly in the NBA from the moment I saw it.  Evidently, so did the coaching staff, who attempted to help SJ correct the problem.  Supporting evidence: this hypothesis comports well with SJ struggling from the field, but not experiencing no decline from the stripe.  In fact, it explains the disparity of the %s in a way that the preceding hypotheses do not.)
Hypothesis 5: A combination of Hypothesis 4 and 1 (confidence), perhaps with the added ingredient of resentment.   (This strikes me as the best explanation, combining strengths of #4 with other elements to make it comprehensive.  Here, loss of confidence would be an effect initially, namely of not having the same success from the field as in college (and presumably HS, where he was a 4 time state champ, as I remember), later perhaps becoming a cause for increased problems shooting from the field.  Seeing loss of confidence as an effect fits with him staying the same at the FT line: no defenders there.  The loss of confidence is appropriately targeted to where there's a problem then.   But if SJ agrees with Don that the coaches have been his undoing, then there'd be an element of resentment too.)
Maybe it's because the line is three feet further back.
Maybe it's because he couldn't shoot them in college either. As a Piston Kyle Singler proved that a deceptively high % can be maintained if one only shoots 3 per game, and only when WIDE open.
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Fire The Turd Now, Not Later

Post  Murph Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:34 am

Fire the fat steaming turd now, before he does something stupid and desperate to try to save his job like shipping Drummond out to LA for the over-the-hill, injury prone Brook Lopez, Larry Nance Jr  and Jordan Clarkson.  We don't need the Lakers left over garbage.

And just because SVG sucks as a coach and can't figure out how to develop players, doesn't mean that players like Drummond need to go.  The Turd is the one who needs to go, before he ships out what's left of our talent for more retreads and journeymen.

Don, I don't know much about Luke Walton as a coach.  At this point, I would prefer a coach with a proven track record of success.

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Post  Sparma Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:14 am

Don, I respect that you've been watching Stanley closely for a long time. You're right that his shooting from the field has declined since college. The numbers show that clearly.

I do wonder how you explain his FT shooting remaining about the same, slightly better, in the NBA. If it's his shooting form that's gone South, this would affect his FT shooting too. But it hasn't. My explanation -- focusing on the impact of better defenders against what started as a vulnerable (even untenable) shot in the NBA -- has the advantage of explaining regression from the field as well as stability, even slight improvement, from the stripe.

One possibility, to back your view, would be that he's altered his shot from the field, but not from the stripe. That's not something I'm seeing. Is that what you're seeing?
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Post  Phil-Good Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:05 pm

It's clear that everybody is let down by Stanley Johnson. The organization has taking A major step back with the selection of Stanley Johnson. The reality is we have to accept the fact the kid is A BUST and move forward and see what's out there trade wise.

So the next logical step is moving Stanley Johnson to the DNP list and giving Ellinson that starting spot and opportunity to shine. I don't know what Van Gundy is afraid of? He drafted this kid and says he doing all the right things. So give this kid the opportunity to shine. What the F.U.C.K man. The bar can't get any lower then Stanley Johnson. HE IS TRASH!! Give the kid you drafted A chancer.


NO MORE EXCUSES STAN Van GUNDY! You drafted him, SO F.U.C.K.I.N.G use him.
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Well Well People

Post  WTF Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:50 pm

Okay I was trying to stay quiet on this/these topics but I can't but you all know with my 39 win prediction I kind of seen this crap coming and is partly why I didn't offer up a 20 game assessment.  Although for a moment it looked like SVG made a slight adjustment the fear that he would become desperate always loomed.

I hear the SJ comments and yes he's a piece of crap but SVG plays him so that's on SVG you simply can't get mad at a turd for smelling so no blaming SJ just SJ coach.  


I don't think I can ever recall when this team ever had 5 starters combine for less than 30 points in a game and I mean ever.  No matter how bad they were shooting this is unacceptable.  What are the combined salaries of our starting unit.  SMH Damn Shame!

Even when the team Mutiny under Kuester they didn't stoop/stink this low.  This is where I do shift some blame to the players for not having enough pride to compete better than they did.   I don't want to hear about SVG getting under their skin when green is going into their pockets everyone works for an asshole at some point.  

Back to SVG because I keep telling everyone it's a bigger story to those 3's that just goes up so freely if you're shooting crappy on 2's what makes one think they do any better shooting 3's.  These 3's feed into everything else that goes wrong in a game for this team but sorry SVG doesn't have a Flip Saunders like play book nor can he manage a roster like Rick,  I won't even mention the 2 Championship coaches.

Reggie looked on board initially but has slip back into darkness and I just knew he would be traded before the season started.  When a team is shooting this bad a great PG find better opportunities for his team mates and take control of the game even when they're in a slump themselves they still help create better shots for their team mates.    Sure Zeke and CB had slumps here and there and their scoring might have been down but their assist went up.

I don't know if  SVG should be fired now or at season end but I do know he shouldn't be here next season regardless how this team finish the season.  I'm telling you this month is going to be a horrible one but January doesn't get any smoother.
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Tell me again how Avery Bradley is going to change this team...

Post  Oracle Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:07 pm

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/12/13/16755038/pistons-by-the-numbers-losing-streaks-make-for-ugly-statistics wrote:Though Tobias Harris and Drummond haven’t been as dominant as they were while the team was winning, they’re not the primary culprits of the drop. Not even Reggie Jackson, despite a few ugly games from him.

Avery Bradley, Stanley Johnson, and Ish Smith have just been disastrous. Bradley has had a TS of 44 percent while Johnson and Ish have each posted 37 percent.
But it gets worse,
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749122-detroit-pistons-on-historic-slide-after-phenomenal-start-to-2017-18 wrote:Tuesday's defeat marked the Pistons' seventh straight, making them just the second team in NBA history to start a season 14-6 or better and have a losing streak of seven or more games later in the campaign
Even Van Gundy hasn't seen crap this bad!

”That was extremely bad basketball,” Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy said. ”That’s one of the worst losses I’ve ever had as a coach, and I’ve coached 850-some games between the regular season and the playoffs.”

Which leaves me looking as clueless as this guy....
FORUM - Page 12 3i1IHdj
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Andre Drummond's trade value has gone up. Is it time to consider making a trade to obtain a top draft pick

Post  cool breeze Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:53 pm

I m not down on AD in any way. He has surprised me a lot so far this season ignoring last night's performance. But can a team really win anything significant with a player who dominates the payroll that has always been a very inconsistent player who is not fundamentally sound. His mental approach is scary for any coach to deal with. Yet at times he can dominate games.

What if this team could trade both Reggie and Andre before the trade deadline. The Pistons start fresh. Maybe whoever the coach is could try Henry Ellenson at the starting center position. Let him learn how to play that position while sacrificing any chance of making the playoffs. Henry looks big enough to play center against most NBA centers. He could have an advantage on offense as he starts knocking down that 3 point shot. The Pistons would lose two good players and they would suffer greatly with their fan base because they should lose a lot of games. But if there is a chance to acquire a top 2 pick and then have another first round pick, that might create a ton of interest next season. With AD and Jackson gone the Pistons would acquire new leadership. Something none of us really can know unless you are on the current Piston team or the team last season is wrong. The highest paid players are not leading their team the right way in my opinion. Both AD and RJ have had outstanding games this season. Yet overall this team does not play basketball with a high basketball IQ. There are some fantastic college players this season. Meanwhile the Pistons have lost 7 games in a row and were blown out by Denver and looked much like they did last season from December through April. 20 turnovers and this team could only manage 17 assists allowed Denver to easily beat our Pistons. This group had been competitive even though they had lost 6 in a row. This game was different. There confidence is gone. The lackluster attitude by the highest paid athletes helped Denver a lot. The elite athletes all have this special mental gift that lifts them up and over all the obstacles in their way. That is as true with elite distance runners as it is with basketball players who win championships. It is doubtful that the Pistons have any really elite basketball players. The highest paid Piston players should be on the trade market because they are not capable of creating an atmosphere where the team is growing in a winning way. It might be time for a new experiment and maybe the Pistons can get lucky in the draft. If no trades are going to be made, then I would keep the starting group together for the entire season to give them every last chance to prove themselves. However, based on this game, I believe that Boban might have helped the starting group more in the first and third quarters than AD accomplished. However, I would love to have Plumblee wearing a Piston uniform. He is smart and prepared. He sets a lot of good screens. His positioning in the paint is superior to any of our centers. Not sure how much money he makes. Does he make as much as Boban?

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:03 pm

Sparma wrote:First, some data:

1) College: 44.6% FG, 37.1 %, 74.2 FT
2) NBA: 36.5, 29.8, 74.3%

Factual conclusion: Stanley J.'s shooting has gone down for FGs generally and for 3s specifically in the NBA, while his FT% has stayed about the same, even going up a tick.

Interpretation?  What's the best explanation?

Hypothesis 1: His confidence is down.   (Problem: one would expect loss of confidence to apply generally, but in fact his FT shooting is actually up slightly.  I return to this below, suggesting the loss of confidence is initially an effect, and perhaps subsequently a cause.  So I do think there's something to this hypothesis, but it doesn't work as an across the board explanation.)
Hypothesis 2: His shooting stroke has been damaged, presumably by interference by Piston coaches. (Comment: maybe, but again there's the issue that his FT shooting remains about the same.  Is there evidence that his shooting stroke has been altered from the field, but not from the charity stripe?  If so, that would bolster this hypothesis.  I'm not aware of any such evidence, however.)
Hypothesis 3: A combination of 1 & 2.  (Same issues as above).
Hypothesis 4: Stanley's shooting % from the field has been diminished due to the tougher competition he faces in the NBA.  (Comment: sounds plausible to me.  I doubted SJ's low release would fly in the NBA from the moment I saw it.  Evidently, so did the coaching staff, who attempted to help SJ correct the problem.  Supporting evidence: this hypothesis comports well with SJ struggling from the field, but not experiencing no decline from the stripe.  In fact, it explains the disparity of the %s in a way that the preceding hypotheses do not.)
Hypothesis 5: A combination of Hypothesis 4 and 1 (confidence), perhaps with the added ingredient of resentment.   (This strikes me as the best explanation, combining strengths of #4 with other elements to make it comprehensive.  Here, loss of confidence would be an effect initially, namely of not having the same success from the field as in college (and presumably HS, where he was a 4 time state champ, as I remember), later perhaps becoming a cause for increased problems shooting from the field.  Seeing loss of confidence as an effect fits with him staying the same at the FT line: no defenders there.  The loss of confidence is appropriately targeted to where there's a problem then.   But if SJ agrees with Don that the coaches have been his undoing, then there'd be an element of resentment too.)

You have thought long and hard on this issue Sparma. All I know is that Stanley Johnson used to knock down wide open jump shots in college as I attended all home games and watched every game he played in college. His release was different. He clearly shot the ball like all good shooters with the off hand off the ball on release and the dominate hand directing the ball towards the basket with the finger tips of the dominate hand. Some of the old times were effective shooters using the two hand approach. I am not buy the idea that Johnson's problems involve playing against better defenders in the NBA. He is smart and usually doesn't just throw up contested shots. He is missing open shots.

With all this information now out there thanks to you and me regarding Johnson's jump shooting problems, there is no way that Stanley Johnson is responsible for this losing streak. Whoever plays the small forward position this season is designated by the head coach as a non factor relating to their role in providing scoring. The scoring according to the dictates of the head coach involves the other 4 positions. Last season Morris was a featured shooter. He touched the ball a lot. One of the big problems is that this season the small forward seldom touches the ball. AD even improved this season at the start when the team did run the motion offense and AD got the ball at the free throw line. This team is not attempting to run any offense now. That much was clear last night. If the offense involves only one pass on 3 or more straight possessions where the point guard makes one pass and gets the ball back and then shoots it, then this team completely goes haywire. And most teams would do the same thing. When Ish Smith came in during the 3rd quarter that is what was happening. Reggie also did the same thing too. Where is AD? Why did he not run hard out to the free throw line and ask for the basketball more? Where were the cutters. Nobody will cut if they know there is no chance of getting a pass. The point guards are incapable of setting up other players so the motion offense can work. They are the primary shooters. When the shots are not falling and the shots are going up quickly without most of the players even touching the ball for up to 12 possessions in a row then there will for sure be a breakdown. Now Avery Bradley is experiencing the issues this team has had now for several years. If opponents take away shooting spots Harris has established, then the one big weapon has been taken out. If AD is easy to guard and cannot get open for the pass to get players like Bradley moving then you get that one pass from the point guard and then back to the point guard for that contested jump shot that was not falling last night. The way I see it, the starters are all very easy to guard. There is no plan on offense. It is read and react and the point guards and the center are not able to read the defenses now. Opponents now have a game plan that works. Earlier in the season opponents were flying my the seat of their pants and had not created a game plan before playing the Pistons. Meanwhile, the Pistons never seem to create a specific game plan to take advantage of their opponent's weaknesses. This team plays the same way every night with no adjustments. Who is at fault. I do not know but I do know it is bigger than Stanley Johnson's bricks. It was good that SVG called out AD after the game. AD started the game poorly much like he did starting in December and for the remainder of the games after December last season. Boban looked quicker and more engaged than AD. The point guards seem to dominate now like they did last season. Harris is now missing shots like he did in the last half of last season. The 2 guard Avery Bradley is looking more like KCP did over the past few games. Opponents know Bradley is a key player they need to stop and they are doing everything they can to disrupt him now. What are the Piston starters doing to disrupt any of their opponents now? Is there a game plan? Are the players doing their homework preparing for the games now? These are the same questions that were asked last season. With that said, it is not too late for them to turn it all around. They need a players only meeting now. They need to re focus and get their mojo back. The 2nd unit now has Boban. That is an adjustment for them. It is no wonder that the 2nd unit is off kilter. Players are looking for Boban instead of running the motion offense where they often ran that offense in a far superior way than the first unit. Now that has all been thrown out the door because the focus is on getting the ball to Boban. Remember last season when the Pistons completely came apart, all the focus was on getting the ball to AD in the paint. What the hell is this coach doing? He is changing everything because he is in the panic mode much like the fans. You can't let your players believe you are in the panic mode. Doesn't SVG at least know that much about coaching? SVG looks scared standing on the sidelines. Everyone feels it. I never see Brad Stevens show his frustrations or fear that he is losing control. Maybe if SVG created a specific game plan for individual opponents and made sure his key players like AD actually has thought about the game plan beforehand, then he would not panic stricken. Relax and have fun but know what in hell you are supposed to be doing on the court before the game starts. That is missing for sure now. Bringing in Johnson at the end of the 3rd quarter was stupid. If the coach decided to punish him then send the message and stick with it. The only bright moment in the 3rd quarter was Galloway's 3 pointer with a little more than a minute left. A timeout was called after that shot was made so I hope the fans who attended the game at least felt a little better while eating their hot dogs.

Plumblee dominated the paint outplaying both of Detroit's centers. One of the things I liked when Moreland played was the fact that the center position was not a factor on offense. Eric set good screens for the other 4 players. That created more open looks. Maybe Moreland is not the best center in the league but I thought it was refreshing to see actual basketball being played without a featured scoring center who cannot play defense or set screens. Both AD and Boban have that reputation. They need to score and seldom are in the right position to defend the paint well or get defensive rebounds. AD had changed his reputation a lot earlier this season. Now he is back to the old AD. But I expect him to recover and bring out his A game soon. I do not think he will tank this season like he did last year. Plumblee should never beat the pants off of AD. But Plumblee is a guy who prepares for each opponent center. He executes the game plan.

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Stanley J's Shooting

Post  Sparma Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:09 pm

First, some data:

1) College: 44.6% FG, 37.1 %, 74.2 FT
2) NBA: 36.5, 29.8, 74.3%

Factual conclusion: Stanley J.'s shooting has gone down for FGs generally and for 3s specifically in the NBA, while his FT% has stayed about the same, even going up a tick.

Interpretation?  What's the best explanation?

Hypothesis 1: His confidence is down.   (Problem: one would expect loss of confidence to apply generally, but in fact his FT shooting is actually up slightly. I return to this below, suggesting the loss of confidence is initially an effect, and perhaps subsequently a cause. So I do think there's something to this hypothesis, but it doesn't work as an across the board explanation.)
Hypothesis 2: His shooting stroke has been damaged, presumably by interference by Piston coaches. (Comment: maybe, but again there's the issue that his FT shooting remains about the same.  Is there evidence that his shooting stroke has been altered from the field, but not from the charity stripe?  If so, that would bolster this hypothesis.  I'm not aware of any such evidence, however.)
Hypothesis 3: A combination of 1 & 2.  (Same issues as above).
Hypothesis 4: Stanley's shooting % from the field has been diminished due to the tougher competition he faces in the NBA.  (Comment: sounds plausible to me.  I doubted SJ's low release would fly in the NBA from the moment I saw it.  Evidently, so did the coaching staff, who attempted to help SJ correct the problem.  Supporting evidence: this hypothesis comports well with SJ struggling from the field, but not experiencing no decline from the stripe.  In fact, it explains the disparity of the %s in a way that the preceding hypotheses do not.)
Hypothesis 5: A combination of Hypothesis 4 and 1 (confidence), perhaps with the added ingredient of resentment.   (This strikes me as the best explanation, combining strengths of #4 with other elements to make it comprehensive.  Here, loss of confidence would be an effect initially, namely of not having the same success from the field as in college (and presumably HS, where he was a 4 time state champ, as I remember), later perhaps becoming a cause for increased problems shooting from the field.  Seeing loss of confidence as an effect fits with him staying the same at the FT line: no defenders there.  The loss of confidence is appropriately targeted to where there's a problem then.   But if SJ agrees with Don that the coaches have been his undoing, then there'd be an element of resentment too.)
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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Sadly Murph, more questions and fewer answers

Post  Oracle Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Murph wrote:SVG has been coach and GM of the Pistons for 4 years.  In that time, can anyone remember a single player that SVG has drafted and successfully developed? NO

Instead, we get an endless supply of retreads....Morris, Lauer, Tolliver, Bradley, Ilyasova, Baynes, Boban, Galloway, Moreland, Bullock... I don't mind retreads if there's at least some tread left Smile
SVG is really incompetent.   But I'm not sure if he's a worse coach or GM. thumbs down It's BOTH, IMO
Having said that, I do agree with Don that it's better to can his ass after the season than now, but for a different reason. There is still some hope, and other teams will go through losing spells and anything can happen. The continuity of keeping him for the season will also help the youngsters, but I'd like to see a good house cleaning after the season, barring a finals appearance  lol

However, a few things are clear.
1. Murph is right, SVG is a turd! I didn't like or dislike him, but I hated his 3 point and a cloud of dust offense. If he has players hitting those 3's, SVG appears to be a genius, but it's just a mirage. He's a one trick pony and he needs a lot of help to make that one trick work.

2. Murph is also right about SVG's offense. It took awhile, but almost every bright spot is becoming tarnished. I'm sure Bradley's resume is being polished up and making sure everyone knows he didn't have a choice to play for this loser.

3. SVG's drafting: This one is interesting, and even though Kennard still looks good to me, folks have been comparing the choices made.

How bad is Stanley Johnson: Look at this response from a Piston Fan responding to Langlois(I added the bold).
Piston Fan wrote:"Booker is a vastly different player than Johnson but, again, it’s too soon to call a winner on that decision." - Langlois

That's a joke, right? You have one guy capable of dropping 71 points in a game, and another guy who shoots with as much composure as a frightened squirrel. If you're unable to "call a winner" on the careers of Booker or Johnson, then what the hell will it take? I really don't care how good Stanley's defense is when opposing defenses essentially just play 5-on-4 when we're on offense. This team, with another scoring option like Booker, would be lethal. My God, what have you been watching?
But even with Kennard, fans question not choosing Mitchell. Another fan questions,
Another Piston Fan wrote:Also, while Van Gundy has made great trades and excellent decisions in free agency, he has taken the wrong player in at least two drafts. (The jury is still out on Ellenson.) Booker is clearly a better player than Johnson and Mitchell in Utah looks like a superstar in the making. Does the college scouting department need changes?
I realize the draft can be a bit of a crap shoot, but when you keep crapping out, you may want to start checking the dice!

4. Then there's the giving contracts to VERY marginal players: It all started with F@%king Jodie Meeks, and after that is just spiraled out of control! Here's all of the offenders, I may be missing some.
     a. Jodie Meeks
     b. Leuer
     c. Boban
     d. Galloway, even though he's done well, he's still over paid, IMO

5. Finally, we're in a horrible financial position because of idiot decisions like these.
     a. Failing to trade Josh Smith, so we buy him out. Worse than no return, we're still paying him
     b. Letting Moose walk for absolutely nothing
     c. Letting KCP walk for absolutely nothing

The last 2 is the reason he can only afford retreads when we should have had quality players coming in from trading Moose & KCP.

Hell, this is Joe Dumars bad, just screwed up in a different way.
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