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Breaking News & Baynes finally opts out...

Post  Oracle on Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:53 pm

I really like Baynes, but I'm also glad he opted out and wish him luck getting PAID!

Gasol opts out and opens the door for the Spurs to go after Chris Paul
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/06/20/report-pau-gasol-declining-player-option-with-spurs-which-could-open-door-for-chris-paul/ wrote:Pau Gasol said in January he’d opt in with the Spurs.

And why not? He seemed happy in San Antonio, and his $16,197,500 salary would likely be more than the soon-to-be 37-year-old would get elsewhere.

But Gasol has apparently had a change of heart – one that could help the Spurs land Chris Paul.
Could the Pistons land D’Angelo Russell in exchange for the 12th pick and change... Lakers want to deal
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2017/06/20/report-lakers-seek-nd-top-pick-pistons-play/103035452/ wrote:It’s an intriguing scenario for the Pistons, who reportedly have gauged interest in starting point guard on the trade market, both at the trade deadline and in the offseason.

It likely would be a more complicated deal than just Russell for the No. 12 pick, as the salaries would need to match and Russell will make $5.6 million next season, with a $7 million team option the following year. The Pistons likely would get the No. 28 pick in return, with some other players involved.
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Sparma

Post  Oracle on Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:19 pm

You really think things through, and  I'm short on time, so let me get to the first part of post now.

Sparma wrote:You seem quite set on the risks of the Process, while giving little weight to the rewards, which are so striking to many now.  Also, again, the Process is designed to accommodate setbacks, of which there were many in Philly (by contrast, SVG just had to hit on the #8 pick he had because that was conceived as a one time high pick based on a poor record).  Also, it would take a while to pin down just what we're discussing.  Being bad in order to become good is hardly new (maybe that's what the KC A's did, although there seemed to be some special sauce in the scouting that yielded so many top players in short order).  Tanking in the NBA's not unusual, if that just means the front office not trying to improve during an off season in order to get a higher pick.
I'm going to pose my answer as a question because I don't remember anything like that working, but that doesn't mean I remember everything that happened, so I'm asking if anyone else recalls any of this ever working, please chime in.

The reason I never addressed the benefits is because I don't remember anyone benefiting from the tanking process, which, in my recollection is fairly new, I want to say in the last 20 years or so.

You mentioned OKC, and they had great success with draft picks, but I don't remember them tanking, they just couldn't win in a tough western conference.

Philly is a classic example, and they raise a lot of questions about the benefit. Just how many #1 picks, or top 5 picks do you need to make the playoffs in a traditionally weak conference?

Boston is a great example of not tanking, but getting great coaching and piling up picks... no tanking involved.

SA is an example, that we could/should have followed of no tanking but staying good, unfortunately, the component I talked about needing, we lost. We lost the coach that guided us and eventually the front office(Mr D) that provided the steady hand. People can keep dismissing the ownership, GM and coaching from the success formula all they want, they're just plain wrong, and Philly will need these to succeed.

So I mentioned this, but not directly, but I see no upside to tanking like that because the benefit takes so many variables to come together correctly that if it does work, it's not repeatable, and thus more luck than anything else.

What SVG is attempting to do is both reliable and repeatable with a smaller risk window because developed pieces will always have value and that value can be moved for either more talented pieces of better fitting ones.

Having said that, I don't reject tanking because if's a valid option when you have no other ways to go. That likely applies to Philly, so I wish them luck unless their success conflicts with ours, LOL!
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What if the owner fired this management team and coaching staff before training camp?

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:22 pm

I was thinking about what would happen if the Pistons went in a different direction from what has been decided on as the future of the NBA which is small ball featuring the 3 point shot. That is a great theme if you have the right players. However, only two or perhaps 4 teams will ever build a team that can be successful with that style. There are only so many Kevin Love or Kevin Garnett type players. And how many times do teams ever get a Labron James? What if a future Piston GM built a team promoting the old theme of blood and guts. Hunting the world for great defensive players and signing those players at every position with the same type of hard nosed players coming in off the bench might wear down even the great teams. This would demand a different style of coaching staff stocked with coaches who can break down the fundamentals and teach pro players how to manhandle opponents whenever they attempt to enter the paint. The team would need to use every player on the roster each game to withstand the amount of foul calls that would surely come in an attempt to force the Pistons to change tactics.

As it stands now, our Pistons have no chance in hell of ever competing for a championship playing the popular style. As of now they do not have enough players on their current roster to play the style I have outlined either. But there is nothing to lose by having a fire sale to start completely changing things. Don't try to find some pussy power forward who hates physical contact in the paint but practices shooting the long ball to get a contract. Get athletic quick big guys who will beat those physically weak athletes to their spots. Make opponents suffer if they try to get into the paint. Detroit is a blue collar town but opponents will now go downtown and see extremely weak defense from this Piston team. How will the Pistons ever be popular again with that image? As soon as Ben Wallace arrived, people identified with the Pistons again. Since he left, the fans have disappeared and who can blame them? Stan Van Gundy has failed to give the fans what they most respect. They do not want to watch players who are not engaged on defense. They use their spin doctors to publish articles stating that the Piston defense is not the problem. Really then why do teams score easily in crunch time against our team? On offense feature players who can execute the mid range jump shot, set hard screens, move without the basketball and share the basketball. Limit the lazy ass three point shooting attempts. This team settles for the 3 too much and the players are just not gifted enough to make a high percentage of those shots. When the 3 ball is missed the team chemistry dwindles a little bit more on each miss. There is no way this current team should be playing the type of offense SVG is using. If he is going to keep these players, he much transform them into hard nosed in your face defenders. If Drummond cannot be traded the new coaching staff must embarrass him enough to get his ass in gear to at least stand in the right positions on defense. The fans would turn out even if the team loses. Eventually a certain type of player who is gifted will find Detroit a very attractive place to play. If they keep playing in this same style the Pistons will suck for the next 10 years of more. The owner needs to sell tickets. No quality player wants to perform before an empty house. This team is on their way to playing before an empty house after the dust settles at the new arena.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:51 pm

Oracle wrote:Sadly, when a person can watch a game and see things that never happened, never existed, and see these things ONLY for certain players... that person has no right to be taken seriously or ever be assumed to being capable of finding a clue.

Of course if you aren't that person, then that wouldn't apply to you  violin

When I coached my high school team, it was always easy to get cheap tickets (many times free tickets for my players). We would get seats directly under the basket. At that time period Detroit was worse off than this team but played more fundamentally sound. Still the Pistons were difficult to enjoy. Kent Benson maned the starting center position. He was a true faker playing with a rhythm that looked much like a slow jogger attempting to run a marathon. It was a great learning experience for my players on how not to play the game of basketball. Although Kent Benson was a far smarter basketball player than Andre Drummond they played very similar in effort. While Benson would occasionally box out under the defensive glass, he would often fail to rotate to cut off drivers on the baseline just out of laziness. The guards always did the right thing in those days and my players could see how to properly set screens and move without the basketball. But it was cool to listen to them talk with each other on the way home. We scouted opponents and would practice taking away certain things like guards who would were not good ball handlers like Pope and take away that players favorite route to the basket or beat them to their favorite shooting spots. The kids really got a kick out of finding out that many pro players just rely on their physical gifts while playing mindlessly and making a lot of mental errors. That made those high school kids much more engaged or alert on defense. And it made the players more conscious of their own individual weaknesses on offense. It was a great learning tool for those great kids who most likely are watching the Pistons with the same critical eye that only fundamentally sound players can identify and either appreciate the pro players who play smart or call out the low basketball IQ players who also usually play with inferior effort. I am not alone Oracle. Anyone who has played organized basketball can clearly see that a lot of our players do not play the right way and that is the biggest reason they have such poor chemistry. It appears that some of those amazing dunks by Andre makes you feel confident in SVG's process. Maybe according to the way you look at games, Andre was in proper position and just was unlucky in not getting that important rebound off the Miami missed shot attempt where Whietside tipped the ball in to win the game. Do you think Andre's teammates were happy with his effort on that play? Do you think they like playing with him? Who knows maybe he is passing out extra spending money to his teammates after the games. Maybe they don't mind losing either.

You might try to actually look at what is going on in games next season and have some fun identify glaring errors by our players that our coaches ignore or are unable to correct because of lack of interest by the players. I am still waiting for Andre Drummond to think of locating his assigned man on defense and then screening him out on the defensive glass. He hasn't done it yet in all these years and it has cost the Piston many games so far. Also, if Pope is signed I will be looking to see if Pope will finally set one screen on offense. That would be nice to see as well. There are two things for you to watch for Oracle in case you get bored. I guarantee most of the Piston games will be much like last season if management keeps the same offense with the lame dribble happy point guards always looking for their own shot along with the team leader, Andre Drummond still trying to figure out defensive rotations while weighing in with 35% body fat. Rest those bones Big Guy. There are plenty of reason to purchase PASS next fall although I get Suns games for free. There will be some up and coming fun teams to watch. Everyone is moving up while we wait with fingers crossed for the trade deadline. Meanwhile teams like Boston, Bucks, Orlando, Suns, Philly, Lakers will have fans who make some noise. Piston fans will be sleeping.

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A Process-y Alternative Recent History for the Pistons

Post  Sparma on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:11 am

I appreciate your thoughtful responses, Oracle.  A few quick responses before trying a thought experiment.  You seem quite set on the risks of the Process, while giving little weight to the rewards, which are so striking to many now.  Also, again, the Process is designed to accommodate setbacks, of which there were many in Philly (by contrast, SVG just had to hit on the #8 pick he had because that was conceived as a one time high pick based on a poor record).  Also, it would take a while to pin down just what we're discussing.  Being bad in order to become good is hardly new (maybe that's what the KC A's did, although there seemed to be some special sauce in the scouting that yielded so many top players in short order).  Tanking in the NBA's not unusual, if that just means the front office not trying to improve during an off season in order to get a higher pick.  Philly's Process is of a different order, or at least an outlier on a continuum.  Hinkie's 13 p. credo demonstrates that.   One illustration is how they acquired the 1st pick.  Yes, they didn't do their best to have the optimal record (thought I'd read that Simmons could have played late in the season, but was held out).  Beyond that, they maneuvered to switch picks with Sac, moving them from 5 to 3 in this year's draft.  As I remember they'd picked up LA's high pick in the MCW (of a young ROY!).  And they'd gotten Sac's later pick, I think in the Stauskas maneuver.  Hinkie's maneuvering, rather than sheer luck, resulted in them being able to acquire (post-Hinkie!) the first pick.  The Process isn't just about being bad.  It's about a Stanford MBA figuring out a way to systematically game the system, turning the odds in favor of acquiring truly outstanding playing.

I'm trying to imagine a Process-oriented GM being hired rather than SVG.  How might that have gone?  

Getting rid of Josh Smith at 5-23?  I thought it was a great idea myself, but the Process-y GM doesn't seem to mind his contribution to making us so terrible.

We do make a big trade, recouping an expiring contract and what turns out to be an 18th pick for Greg Monroe, who doesn't fit comfortably with Drummond and Smith.

We recover a bit, winning 20 games, with Josh Smith receiving part of the credit for his play after Monroe left.  After the season, we manage to offload Smith for an expiring contract and an early 2nd rounder.

Others tanked harder than us, so we're left with the 4th pick.  We miss out on Okafur, wondering if he would have fit with AD anyway, and settle for Porzingis, thinking him a nice complement to Drummond.

No trade for Reggie, someone I see as a B+ PG, when healthy.  Results?  We still have a 2nd round pick this year, and wasn't there an earlier one too?  We don't devote 80 mil to a pretty good PG, leaving us with much more financial capability to make Process-y trades.  

Eventually we're able to package two high 2 rounders for a late 1st rounder, dealing with a financially strapped team worried about the cap commitments that come with drafting a 1st rounder.  This leaves us with a high 2nd rounder from the non-trade for Reggie.

The Harris trade is a Process-y trade, so it's viable, except that we never traded for Ilyasova in the first place, so it's a no go.  Porzingis settles in nicely at PF though, relieving pressure from Drummond to be an offensive threat.  His resulting focus on defense receives praise from the coach.

Morris, Tolliver, Leuer, Baynes, Blake, and Boban don't make it to town [incidentally, I liked the Boban signing but it now looks like SVG just being cautious, rather than innovative by going big as I had hoped].  They look to the Process-y regime like guys who keep you from being bad (but not last year!), but don't really help you be outstanding (with the possible exception of Boban).

Ish Smith does play as a Piston for a year, doing well, but then leaving as a FA, playing surprising well in Milwaukee when the starting PG becomes injured.

In the second year, our record's still crummy so we draft 6th, picking Buddy Hield.  Wait, Buddy Hield?  

With more financial flexibility we consider signing KCP before the 2016-2017 season for 16 mil.  Instead, we opt to trade him, in the spirit of the Process, judging him to be a pretty good player, rather than the kind of top talent we're hoping for.  In the trade, we pick up what becomes a #15 pick.  

The #18 pick landed for Monroe turns out to be Henry Ellenson.  Ellenson is lean, but shows real promise in the 15 mpg he gets his first year.

An opportunity arise in the spring of 2017.  Sac doesn't want to sign Cousins for the max.  We still have plenty of cap space and decide to take the plunge.  In our quest for generational talents, we trade for Cousins, packaging Drummond and Buddy Hield in return.  Critics wonder if Cousins and Porzingis can co-exist, but we've taken the chance seeking to maximize our talent base.  

With an uptick to 30 wins, we landed the #7 pick, with which we're mocked Jonathan Isaac.  With the number #15 pick received for KCP, we're mocked Luke Kennard [Tankathon's 15th pick].  There's talk of packaging those picks in a trade up to #4 or #5.  

I refrain here from detailing the other sly trades made, facilitated by our salary cap allowing exploiting of other teams' perpetual budget struggles.

Our cap situation's still good, but tightening.  We hope to make one major FA pick up, now that free agents are interested in coming to Detroit after ignoring us for years.  Still, it seems unlikely that we'll beat out Boston and Utah for Gordon Hayward's signature.  But given our draft assets, the trade talks for Jimmy Butler appear to have real legs.  

Moving into the fourth year of a serious Process-y rebuild, things are looking up for the Pistons.  There's even talk that the Process-y GM will be re-upped, but there's also the rumor that Sacramento's planning a major bid for him. Others point out that the Rebuild has consisted of nothing but heavy losing and that there's no real success to be celebrated yet.

How might things have turned out differently if the candidate once favored for coach/ President, Stan Van Gundy, had been hired?  His Milwaukee team just won 37 games this year after what looked like a promising start to their rebuild with him.  Reggie Jackson's bound to play better for the Bucks this year though.  He had an excellent end of the year practice, demonstrating his full recovery.  And of course, Ish Smith will still get plenty of minutes behind Reggie.


Last edited by Sparma on Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:19 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Trying to have some more Process-y fun)
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Stones...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:16 pm

Go Stones! wrote:Leur gets a bad rap, but just imagine if SVG had gotten his ol pal, Ryan Anderson for double the money and only a couple more points a game.  I'd bet it also shows that Anderson played more min per game.  Leur is a better rebounder and in handing out assists.  Thoughts?

My bet is that in the next two years you will see this as a brilliant signing.  Could be a piece toward a better player in a trade or that he continues to improve his stats every year.  
I'm not sure about brilliant, the possibility is there, but I'm 100% with you that he could lead to signing a better player.

But that's my argument for a lot of the guys we have now! Who knows who'll be around if we get a lot better, most may be gone, moved to get better pieces.

We're still trying to separate players to arrive at a championship core, the current core is fine for where we are now with some tweaking, IMO.
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Don...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:13 pm

Sadly, when a person can watch a game and see things that never happened, never existed, and see these things ONLY for certain players... that person has no right to be taken seriously or ever be assumed to being capable of finding a clue.

Of course if you aren't that person, then that wouldn't apply to you  violin
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:22 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:Oracle seems upset that Boston was the number one seed in the Eastern conference. Why? They were the most consistent team in the Eastern conference. They showed up every night. They have players who have high basketball IQs and quick recognition skills. One player SVG threw away was Jonas Jerebco. He has quick recognition skills and a high basketball IQ. I always enjoyed watching him for that reason. Boston fans love him. Stan Van Gundy never gave him a fair shot. He is better than any power forward Stan Van Gundy has signed so far. Fans in Boston love watching their team because of the type of players they have. That Boston team did not have the All Star supremely gifted type of players that stand out. They have sound basketball players who play with great team chemistry. We have the opposite of that. Brad Stevens plays all of his players at one time or another. Steve Kerr makes a point of playing all of his players and admitted that is a big reason why Golden State has such great team chemistry. Everyone looks forward to coming to practice because they all feel like they are part of the team. The Golden State Star players all buy into that theme and do not separate themselves from any of the other players. Now recall the big deal made about the bond between Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. It was as if nobody else existed. That would pat each other on the back all the time two years ago. The coach allowed it all to take place and made those two players the team leaders. The other players were just a necessary evil. 
Hardly upset, but they were an odd #1 because the team just isn't that good, it was the coaching and system that made them work so well.

The Pistons are WAY more talented, and beat them like they stole something in their own house when Boston was at the top of their game. That should tell you something!

BTW, will you stop talking about high IQ's, it's getting beyond silly. BBal IQ gets better with experience, coaching and dictated by who you play with.

JR Smith, never known for high IQ anywhere, but playing with LeBron has put him in genius status... give it a rest!

Obviously you have no clue Oracle relating to ever playing organized basketball. I can see how you might believe that experience and coaching can improve your basketball IQ and for sure those two things will improve your reaction time and decision making skills in high school and big men can get by depending how strong and athletic they are but at the NBA level where the pace of play is incredible, you need God given mental ability to see things before they develop. Ask Zeke he is good at describing that special characteristic. I have had the good fortune to play in both high school and college with one of those special gifted high basketball IQ players. If you think somehow Andre Drummond will ever have a high basketball IQ or quick recognition skills, you will never know what I am talking about. You don't know that you don't know Oracle. The great ones all have the gift and the guts when thinking of great big men and then there are the rest of the junk players who have to fake it. Drummond has no clue how to defend Anthony Davis and never will know. Davis is a guy who has the gift having both traits I try to identify. It is fun to try to identify the young guys who might have it.

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Leur

Post  Go Stones! on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:59 pm

Leur gets a bad rap, but just imagine if SVG had gotten his ol pal, Ryan Anderson for double the money and only a couple more points a game. I'd bet it also shows that Anderson played more min per game. Leur is a better rebounder and in handing out assists. Thoughts?

My bet is that in the next two years you will see this as a brilliant signing. Could be a piece toward a better player in a trade or that he continues to improve his stats every year.
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Boston

Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:51 pm

Don wrote:Oracle seems upset that Boston was the number one seed in the Eastern conference. Why? They were the most consistent team in the Eastern conference. They showed up every night. They have players who have high basketball IQs and quick recognition skills. One player SVG threw away was Jonas Jerebco. He has quick recognition skills and a high basketball IQ. I always enjoyed watching him for that reason. Boston fans love him. Stan Van Gundy never gave him a fair shot. He is better than any power forward Stan Van Gundy has signed so far. Fans in Boston love watching their team because of the type of players they have. That Boston team did not have the All Star supremely gifted type of players that stand out. They have sound basketball players who play with great team chemistry. We have the opposite of that. Brad Stevens plays all of his players at one time or another. Steve Kerr makes a point of playing all of his players and admitted that is a big reason why Golden State has such great team chemistry. Everyone looks forward to coming to practice because they all feel like they are part of the team. The Golden State Star players all buy into that theme and do not separate themselves from any of the other players. Now recall the big deal made about the bond between Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. It was as if nobody else existed. That would pat each other on the back all the time two years ago. The coach allowed it all to take place and made those two players the team leaders. The other players were just a necessary evil. 
Hardly upset, but they were an odd #1 because the team just isn't that good, it was the coaching and system that made them work so well.

The Pistons are WAY more talented, and beat them like they stole something in their own house when Boston was at the top of their game. That should tell you something!

BTW, will you stop talking about high IQ's, it's getting beyond silly. BBal IQ gets better with experience, coaching and dictated by who you play with.

JR Smith, never known for high IQ anywhere, but playing with LeBron has put him in genius status... give it a rest!
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Questions...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Sparma wrote:You seem to underestimate the desperate straits most teams, including Detroit, are in in today's NBA. Also, you don't seem to recognize that the Process allows for a lot to go wrong. A lot has gone wrong in Philly, but look where they are. That's actually a strength of the Process, the resiliency that comes with it. Sure the salary cap will become a problem for them, but that's true for any NBA team that really good for a while (and for some that aren't very good, like us). The Process offers a great response to that general problem, even if no one has a permanent solution. Not sure what you mean here, I went through a conversation about risks, so I understand the issues. I just see Philly's risks as having the ability for more things to go wrong in more ways... way too many variables need to come together in a short period of time, but you don't seem to see that as I do, so it's alright.

That's a yes that becomes a no then to Philly being more exciting? Are you saying yes or no? Losing with no accomplishments? Sounds like you haven't been following Philly very carefully. Even with their crummy record there's ALREADY cause for excitement. Specifically, I read that while Embiid played Philly yielded the fewest points per 100 possessions. What if Drummond had played 31 games last season but we had been the best defensive team in the league while he played. Not exciting?? C'mon man. I guess you missed the part where I said how weak the east was, so the numbers and the wins are a bit suspect, IMO, which doesn't mean there was no progress, I'm just saying I need to see it over a full season or more. If the question was were they more exciting than we were down the stretch, the answer is yes. If the question is were they even remotely as exciting or capable as this team was when Ish was running it and we were beating all comers, the answer is a resounding hell no! We're capable of a lot more.

Credit to SVG, where due. I'm inclined to think of his approach as sensible, more so than as innovative, but okay. I know that he had staff watch all of the NBA games, so as to be able to move very quickly on transactions. That's innovative for us, if not the league.  Compared to the innovativeness of the Process SVG’s is of small stature. But tanking to get high picks is innovative?

What I don't like is the results as they look now of SVG's "process." He made some smart choices early, but he didn't get the big breaks needed. Specifically, simplifying, he needed at least one, and really two, of AD, Reggie, and the #8 pick he made to really emerge. Hasn't happened. Sucks for him, and for us, but it's not that surprising. I watched the games when Reggie came from OKC thought him an above average (contra Don) PG, but not a franchise pillar. An AD dedicated to D would have made a heck of difference. Could have happened, but didn't. And Stanley? I'll defer to others, having watched him only at the outset, but I don't see stardom looming. That's a short sighted view, IMO, but it's the prevailing view. I guess if you take that view, then radical change is the only option you have left. Not saying you're wrong, but I believe SVG signed up to deliver in 5 years, he has one more to show some leg and if he does, the last one to really drive it home.

SVG's pinned big hopes on a #8, a #9, and a late 1st rounder. Philly's building trying to build on a 1, another 1, and 3. Surprising that different projections follow? Not so much.  So, yes, the Process comes with huge risks, but it’s also just playing the probability game.  SVG/ Gores tried to be both smart and safe, competitive.  Can't blame them, but I'm not happy with where it's left us. I'm not bothered so much by last season anymore as most appear to be, the initial disappointment has worn off. I get it, none of us should be happy about how the season ended, the question is how to move forward. If this group can't get it done next season I think they all know they're in trouble, but in all fairness, they deserve the chance to right the ship. There will be plenty of time to blow things up if they falter.
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Lakers not Fakers

Post  BallinD on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:44 pm

Magic just got in and already he's trying to get another pick out of this draft.  IMHO SVG should do the same.  

Draft well and get a cheap upgrade salary wise and energetically.  It is interesting that down the stretch, the non-starters appeared to play harder n more energetic than the starters, though to some, that doesn't seem to matter much.  Get younger, time to shake up the core.

@Cool. I don't think i have a more moderate view of the situation than you. You obviously point out specifics that I too have seen. And I do not believe a time machine will take us back to 2015. You cannot put the Genie back in the bottle once he has escaped.


Last edited by BallinD on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops)
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Good arguments Piston posters

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:34 pm

Sparma and Ballin might have a more moderate take on the current Piston team and coaching staff than I do and Oracle appears to have the opposite take on the state of the Pistons. Do I envy Philly or Bucks fans at this specific time in history? Hell yes. Do I believe Piston management has spent money foolishly and have now boxed themselves in and are now desperate and determined to not admit their mistakes. The team needs to have a yard sale. But will they now add to the damage by damage by signing another low basketball IQ guard to a crippling contract on the basis that signing Pope might be the only thing they can do because of their financial situation?

The devil is in the details that show on the court. Oracle has stated that every team has to take risks. How about taking educated risks based on facts involving what happens on the court in the regular season? How about looking at how our Pistons got their butts kicked in an attempt to project the future with those same players? I have pointed out the obvious fact that key Piston players do not have quick recognition mental skills. Any NBA coach will tell you that is something players either have or don't have and is not a matter of finding the right coach to change the inferior players with slow recognition skills. The NBA game is just too fast for those players to ever beat the players who have that gift. If you are a high school coach, you can do things to compensate for hard working slow minded players limitations in that area. But when you get to college level players it becomes harder for the mentally slow players to be effective and impossible in the NBA.I am not talking about off the court stupidity or being slow in the classroom. The game now even in high school is a blur. If you played you know what I mean. Players will have your lunch if you cannot automatically recognize and react to situations. Andre Drummond does not have that ability and if you watch him as I have this past season you would know that every opposing coach knows it and they attack that weakness as much as possible. It shows up for Drummond on defense. He just doesn't have a clue what the opposing team is trying to do from moment to moment. Here I go seemingly attacking Andre Drummond again. But the bigger problem is this coaching staff and the leader SVG who knows damn well as much as I do that he should have convinced the owner to trade Drummond instead of signing him to that insane contract. I question the basic judgment of the Piston leadership. When you talk about taking risks, do you bluff and stay in a poker hand when you don't even have a pair? Do you bet the farm because an NBA player can make some dunk shots off the pick and roll play?

Team chemistry is important yet Piston management has tried to ignore the fact that the chemistry got much worse towards the end of the season. Nothing changed for the better. Anyone with half a brain knows that you have to change the make up of the players when that happens. It does happen a lot more when you have players with low basketball IQs who have slow recognition skills. You have the basketball being doubled and the unguarded Piston doesn't move to the open spot where the guy with the ball is looking. Why didn't you move idiot? Or how about the guard on the baseline who is watching the point guard get into his area while dribbling. He fakes moving out to the wing but then back cuts moving fast down the baseline wide open calling for the ball. Meanwhile the point guard is oblivious to that obvious reaction and turns his back and doesn't see the 2 guard cut. How about on defense when the center calls a switch without yelling something to his teammate. Then the guard he switches with has to guard a big center who is only about 3 yards away from the teammate who called the switch. The guard says that is not the way we practice. Why in hell did he do that? Players lose trust in their teammates. They also don't like it when they never touch the basketball unless it is at the end of the shot clock. They have to shoot a low percentage shot and that hurts their personal shooting percentage. I have witnessed those basic mistakes over and over and both point guards, KCP, and Andre Drummond made those mistakes. The coaches were either asleep at the wheel ( because in college you would be spotted quickly and place on the bench) or the coaches do try to correct the players with zero effect. It does not appear that the coaches have reacted to those mistakes in the games that I watched though so that is really puzzling.

Maybe this team has too many coaches and front office staff. It is like Congress where in both parties nobody who the people elect actually read the laws they pass. They have hundreds of staffers. In earlier times representatives had to do their homework and actually do something other than be salesmen or women who are out on the campaign trail for their entire careers. I like Danny Ainge because he is a hard worker who loves basketball so much he does not mind doing the dirty work himself. Go on line and just look at the amount of people the Piston organization employs. It is insane. Not one Piston player has improved in several years that I can see. Harris even looked better in Orlando than he does in Detroit. What obstacles are the coaching staff putting up to hurt the chances of players being successful? One obstacle is Andre Drummond. The other is Reggie Jackson. Possibly the other might be KCP who is not a guy who sees the court well, finishes well, passes well or in my opinion is a good defender. He does not have quick recognition skills but is faster than Andre Drummond in that area.

Oracle seems upset that Boston was the number one seed in the Eastern conference. Why? They were the most consistent team in the Eastern conference. They showed up every night. They have players who have high basketball IQs and quick recognition skills. One player SVG threw away was Jonas Jerebco. He has quick recognition skills and a high basketball IQ. I always enjoyed watching him for that reason. Boston fans love him. Stan Van Gundy never gave him a fair shot. He is better than any power forward Stan Van Gundy has signed so far. Fans in Boston love watching their team because of the type of players they have. That Boston team did not have the All Star supremely gifted type of players that stand out. They have sound basketball players who play with great team chemistry. We have the opposite of that. Brad Stevens plays all of his players at one time or another. Steve Kerr makes a point of playing all of his players and admitted that is a big reason why Golden State has such great team chemistry. Everyone looks forward to coming to practice because they all feel like they are part of the team. The Golden State Star players all buy into that theme and do not separate themselves from any of the other players. Now recall the big deal made about the bond between Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. It was as if nobody else existed. That would pat each other on the back all the time two years ago. The coach allowed it all to take place and made those two players the team leaders. The other players were just a necessary evil.

There is nothing to look forward to as of this moment in time. We have to hope either the owner fires the current coaching staff and the upper management team or they get their asses back on track.

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Philly/ Det/ Oracle

Post  Sparma on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:27 pm

You seem to underestimate the desperate straits most teams, including Detroit, are in in today's NBA. Also, you don't seem to recognize that the Process allows for a lot to go wrong. A lot has gone wrong in Philly, but look where they are. That's actually a strength of the Process, the resiliency that comes with it. Sure the salary cap will become a problem for them, but that's true for any NBA team that really good for a while (and for some that aren't very good, like us). The Process offers a great response to that general problem, even if no one has a permanent solution.

That's a yes that becomes a no then to Philly being more exciting? Are you saying yes or no? Losing with no accomplishments? Sounds like you haven't been following Philly very carefully. Even with their crummy record there's ALREADY cause for excitement. Specifically, I read that while Embiid played Philly yielded the fewest points per 100 possessions. What if Drummond had played 31 games last season but we had been the best defensive team in the league while he played. Not exciting?? C'mon man.

Credit to SVG, where due. I'm inclined to think of his approach as sensible, more so than as innovative, but okay. I know that he had staff watch all of the NBA games, so as to be able to move very quickly on transactions. That's innovative for us, if not the league.  Compared to the innovativeness of the Process SVG’s is of small stature.

What I don't like is the results as they look now of SVG's "process." He made some smart choices early, but he didn't get the big breaks needed. Specifically, simplifying, he needed at least one, and really two, of AD, Reggie, and the #8 pick he made to really emerge. Hasn't happened. Sucks for him, and for us, but it's not that surprising. I watched the games when Reggie came from OKC thought him an above average (contra Don) PG, but not a franchise pillar. An AD dedicated to D would have made a heck of difference. Could have happened, but didn't. And Stanley? I'll defer to others, having watched him only at the outset, but I don't see stardom looming.

SVG's pinned big hopes on a #8, a #9, and a late 1st rounder. Philly's building trying to build on a 1, another 1, and 3. Surprising that different projections follow? Not so much.  So, yes, the Process comes with huge risks, but it’s also just playing the probability game.  SVG/ Gores tried to be both smart and safe, competitive.  Can't blame them, but I'm not happy with where it's left us.
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I think we need a PG defender to allow KCP to focus elsewhere

Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:13 pm

http://pistonpowered.com/2017/06/19/donovan-mitchell-detroit-pistons-draft/ wrote:At long last, Donovan Mitchell made his visit to the Detroit Pistons practice facility in Auburn Hills. The sophomore shooting guard out of Louisville had been expected to make his trip to town sometime this week, and his arrival came better late than never.

Mitchell stands 6’3″ and 210 lbs with a tremendous 6’10” wingspan. Per Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press, he has a body fat percentage of just 5.9. He’s explosive and one of the best athletes in the draft, posting the combine’s highest standing vertical at 36.5″ and one of the combine’s fastest ever three-quarter court times at just 3.01 seconds.
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Excellent example of what I mean...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:56 pm

BallinD wrote:Oracle, have to acknowledge your dogged determination to talk up the sow's ear into a silk purse(It's neither, but when you're predisposed to one line of thinking, showing you another appears to be talking something up. I don't say the consensus is wrong, just not practical or a good idea yet, IMO).    Arguably we could be a third or fourth best team in the east assuming everybody else stays static  and we somehow find a way to solve: You seem to ignore the possibility of teams following some of the advice given here and getting worse. The assumption that all change leads to better outcomes isn't always true. Also, you assume that we will stand still, stay tuned(Drummond, Trade Watch).

1. Chemistry, our two leaders are anything but...Weggie and Dre.  Other players have seen the emperor (SVG) wears no clothes and it's not a pretty sight.  Assist to Stupid Van Gundy for inserting his mouth into the player's only meeting and undermine team leaders, saying they complain they don't get touches with Weggie, then later acknowledging we were the poorest shooting team in the league by some measures.  Just a coincidence, right?!?! The evidence for any of that isn't trustworthy at this point since it's been more than a year since you've seen those two working together injury free.

2. SVG playing favorites with his ridiculous lineups. I do agree with this, and while I complain, I don't know why he does this.

3. Shooting, shooting, shooting. That's ONLY been an issue whey the right lineups aren't played and ONLY if you endorse the stand out at the 3 point line and chuck. When we've played  a game that looks for the BEST shot, not a 3 point shot, we don't struggle at all!

4. The understanding by all involved that the team played better with Ish than Weggie. True, but again, under circumstances you really shouldn't make sweeping judgements about. IMO, if Reggie is healthy, it's possible to get the best of both worlds. Again, if you read my post about risks, yes, this is a risk, but a risk based on facts, not hope.

5.  Cap space once we sign KCP allows only one way to improve, that is to hope/pray our players shoot better than they ever have before.  No incremental progress, but real, tangible improvements not subject to interpretation (ala KCP). This is so wrong, and lies at the root of what people keep saying. We have valuable assets, and CAP doesn't matter in a trade, the value of the assets reign supreme.

6.  The realization that after 5 years in the league, Dre is who he is, weaknesses equal to his strengths, which is a push.  Will he explore the Boban option or remain stubbornly stupid??? IMO, he's going to do this to the max within reason. If he comes to that conclusion, and I haven't yet, then he needs to do this with caution. He can't behave irrationally if he wants to move Drummond and retain any value of the asset.

7. What is this team's identity??? If there is none, and it appears there is not, then we are screwed.  Who do we want to be?  What is the way out?? 90% plus of teams don't have identities! You get identities organically, I don't recommend forcing it. I do believe that SVG let solid veteran influences go before it was time. While it looked like they didn't need any more hand holding, this team is still very young.
BTW, the Lakers are really shopping the 2nd pick! IMO, it could be for assets or just to move down a place or two.
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Go For It

Post  BallinD on Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:44 pm

Oracle, have to acknowledge your dogged determination to talk up the sow's ear into a silk purse.    Arguably we could be a third or fourth best team in the east assuming everybody else stays static  and we somehow find a way to solve:

1. Chemistry, our two leaders are anything but...Weggie and Dre.  Other players have seen the emperor (SVG) wears no clothes and it's not a pretty sight.  Assist to Stupid Van Gundy for inserting his mouth into the player's only meeting and undermine team leaders, saying they complain they don't get touches with Weggie, then later acknowledging we were the poorest shooting team in the league by some measures.  Just a coincidence, right?!?!

2. SVG playing favorites with his ridiculous lineups.

3. Shooting, shooting, shooting.

4. The understanding by all involved that the team played better with Ish than Weggie.

5.  Cap space once we sign KCP allows only one way to improve, that is to hope/pray our players shoot better than they ever have before.  No incremental progress, but real, tangible improvements not subject to interpretation (ala KCP).

6.  The realization that after 5 years in the league, Dre is who he is, weaknesses equal to his strengths, which is a push.  Will he explore the Boban option or remain stubbornly stupid???

7. What is this team's identity??? If there is none, and it appears there is not, then we are screwed. Who do we want to be? What is the way out??


Last edited by BallinD on Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops)
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We're innovative as well, you just don't like it

Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:24 am

Sparma wrote:Let's bookmark that statement on this memorable Father's Day, Oracle.

Between the three coming stars, they've played 31 NBA games, so I'll grant you W-L results won't be stunning real soon, but the Process (take your pick) (a) is about to succeed, b) is in the process of succeeding, or c) has succeeded.  I'm even willing to put it as (c), as argued with analogy to the '68 KC A's, however ridiculous that is to many.

btw, let's say c really is ridiculous and we need to wait for Philly to win and win big, to claim any degree of success.  Fine, in one sense.  But if you're trying to be a smart, innovative, GM in a tough market you need to act before it's obvious to all that it's a sensible approach under the circumstances.  Hinkie explicitly noted the importance of selectively going against market trends, being contrarian, exploiting openings created by standing patterns.  Buying IBM stock's best done before it's generally clear it's a smart thing to do.  So yes, we can wait for the W-L results, but I also can lament our think tank not being more creative, thinking out of the box, when it looks like there was a competitive edge for the taking. I'm not objecting to Philly's approach, I think that when your back is to the wall, you have to take chances. But make no mistake, it's a huge risk, so many things can go wrong(and have already), and a lot of things need to go right. Time is NOT on their side, not the way the salary CAP is structured these days, all of that young talent is going to get real expensive real fast.

But let's see if we can agree on this much: as of Father's Day 2017, it a lot more fun, more exciting, to be a 76ers fan than a Pistons fan.  We get to watch a dreary mess unfold, with a(n unlikely) peak of maybe 50 wins, whereas Philly fan can begin to make Vegas strength projections (given health) of being an outstanding team in three years. Yeah, Philly is more exciting if you like LOSING with no accomplishments to show except for the thrill of winning the lottery every year, I guess it depends on your tastes. I simply haven't bought into the doom and gloom here. I KNOW that winning produces additional opportunities that losing doesn't.

Not that I'm calling for something like switching rooting interests.  I for one, having lived in Detroit city as a kid, just can't do that.  I'm stuck rooting for the home team for as long as I live.  That doesn't mean I can't hope for a gutsy, creative, ahead of the market approach.
The Pistons HAVE been innovative, you just don't either like it, or don't recognize it as innovative.

There is a sh!t load to structural changes SVG has made in his short tenure that are forward looking and innovative. Short term thinkers demand immediate results, but some things take time.

SVG also was VERY innovative getting talent in here with smart efficient moves.

SVG also brought in talent ahead of the huge jumps in salary and locked them up for a chance at a run within a window of time.

Every method of innovation has risks, ours are less than others and there have been mistakes.

1. We have 17M tied up in two non starters, Leuer & Boban, which looks like a mistake in the case of Leuer, the jury is still out
2. It's a risk to sign KCP to a max(we may get lower). He's not worth a max deal right now, can he grow into it? Again, the jury is out.
3. Believing in the Reggie/Drummond combo is a risk. Too much faith in one basket, but last year revealed talent elsewhere, can we capitalize?

There's more, but risk is part of the process, but some people like others risk over ours. 

That's alright until you land in their shoes and discover that higher risk isn't all it's cracked up to be... been on any Philly boards lately?

Just remember this: Philly looked good in a year that the east was really weak and the Pistons were racked with injury(mostly Reggie & KCP) and dysfunction.

To a lesser degree, this applies to the Bucks as well, but on what planet should that Boston team have been the #1 seed?

Bottom line: Don't trust last years results...
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"Philly is going nowhere, and they're doing it FAST!"

Post  Sparma on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:00 am

Let's bookmark that statement on this memorable Father's Day, Oracle.

Between the three coming stars, they've played 31 NBA games, so I'll grant you W-L results won't be stunning real soon, but the Process (take your pick) (a) is about to succeed, b) is in the process of succeeding, or c) has succeeded. I'm even willing to put it as (c), as argued with analogy to the '68 KC A's, however ridiculous that is to many.

btw, let's say c really is ridiculous and we need to wait for Philly to win and win big, to claim any degree of success. Fine, in one sense. But if you're trying to be a smart, innovative, GM in a tough market you need to act before it's obvious to all that it's a sensible approach under the circumstances. Hinkie explicitly noted the importance of selectively going against market trends, being contrarian, exploiting openings created by standing patterns. Buying IBM stock's best done before it's generally clear it's a smart thing to do. So yes, we can wait for the W-L results, but I also can lament our think tank not being more creative, thinking out of the box, when it looks like there was a competitive edge for the taking.

But let's see if we can agree on this much: as of Father's Day 2017, it a lot more fun, more exciting, to be a 76ers fan than a Pistons fan. We get to watch a dreary mess unfold, with a(n unlikely) peak of maybe 50 wins, whereas Philly fan can begin to make Vegas strength projections (given health) of being an outstanding team in three years.

Not that I'm calling for something like switching rooting interests. I for one, having lived in Detroit city as a kid, just can't do that. I'm stuck rooting for the home team for as long as I live. That doesn't mean I can't hope for a gutsy, creative, ahead of the market approach.
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Well, sounds like the comedy club is in town...

Post  Oracle on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:54 pm

Sparma wrote:I agree with you Go Stones.  Looks to me like Philly is well on their way, particularly if they pull off the heavily rumored trade for Fultz at #1.

I wish our "process" was working nearly as well.
Man, this is the funniest stuff I've heard in awhile. Sparma, talent doesn't get you there, never had and Philly won't be the exception. Hell, even a generational talent like LeBron struggled early in Cleveland. Five good men will beat one or two great men every day and twice on Sunday.

You of all people should know that it takes good to great coaching, decent ownership and the right combination of talent and chemistry to make it, and then you still need a little luck.

Philly is going nowhere, and they're doing it FAST!

Stones wrote:Bottom line: With Celtics, Wiz, Cavs, Raptors winning and Philly and Magic improving in the next few years...we are screwed! Consider us equivalent to the Teal Years.
Phillip wrote:Move on from these guys and take the L now for the W later!
You guys are saying similar things, but here's a news flash.

The Pistons, even if they fail to make ANY moves is easily the 3rd or 4th best team in the east... PERIOD!

I really see only two teams that would cause this team any trouble, and one of them is just good(Cavs) and the other is a matchup issue(Wiz) that a better coach should have eliminated by now.

This is an amazingly talented team that is not producing at the level they should, but will!

The most puzzling thing should have been how any of these teams beats us, but a lot of that will end if SVG can get his act together and allow this team to operate using all of it's talent focused on a single goal.

The grass always looks greener somewhere else, especially when you don't want to put in the work to keep your own damn grass green... yeah Don, thinking of you  lol
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Phily and Boston are the future of the East

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:44 pm

The Pistons better get on board right F.U.C.K.I.N.G now with what's going on in the East.

The 76ERS and Boston are leading the charge as the future of the East.

In between time, Detroit and Gores are happy to struggle to get the 7th and 8th seed. lol

Gores. If the red tape don't F.U.C.K up the deal and the Pistons actually move into Downtown. Every home game will sale out for the next two or three years. So don't worry about profits. Focus on rebuilding this Organization. A maxed out Reggie Jackson and KCP will not get the job done. GUARANTEED!

Move on from these guys and take the L now for the W later!
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While Piston's management team flounders around with no plan for the future, Boston keeps on building a possible dynasty

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:37 pm

Danny Ainge is a guy that I have seen a lot of over the past few seasons. He attends a lot of Arizona games. unlike a lot of GMs like our Detroit crew, he gets his butt out on the college scene himself and it doesn't matter if he has to travel to the West coast to get the job done. Ainge has been quoted as saying he himself has to see the college players perform in pressure situations. He doesn't necessarily look at stat sheets. Ainge is looking for a certain type of player that fits his mold which he knows will fit the type of player Boston fans are used to watching. Those players have to be high basketball IQ type players who are key players both on offense and defense. He looks to see what the match ups will be when he scouts players. He has the knowledge as to who will guard who and what coaches are doing to stop the prolific type players and how those players react to situations. Ainge will not bring a low basketball IQ player with a questionable work ethic on any Boston team as long as he is in charge.

Now it appears that Ainge will pull off another beautiful trade involving the number one overall pick. Ainge knows that Philly wants Fultz. Ainge has watched all o the top tier players and knows who he really wants on his team. It isn't the projected number one pick from Washington and never was. While Ainge will actually secure the rights to the player he really wants, he will also obtain another top first rounder next season. And of course he will land an alpha dog free agent as well this summer. Look out Cleveland, Boston is going to be much better next year and the year after that unless bad luck with injuries occur. Fantastic results can happen if the management team has some brains and works as hard as Danny Ainge.

With that said Boston needs a big center. Is there a chance that Danny Ainge might think that his fantastic head coach Brad Stevens could change Andre Drummond's bad habits? I doubt that is possible due to Andre's low basketball IQ, lazy work ethic and slow basketball recognition skills. If there was any interest though, I would take Kelly O,, and Avery ( that means we can forget about signing Pope) with perhaps other Celtic rotation players along with that Philly pick in exchange for our 12th pick. Would Morris be part of this deal because of his attractive contract?

How about the Suns? Detroit appears to be interested in Bledsoe and the Suns are over stocked with guards. Does anyone know the inside story relating to talks with the Suns?

Detroit's assets appear to be Johnson, Morris, and the 12th pick. Drummond does not fit the mold of the type of center NBA teams want nowadays. So the idea involving Boston is based on a hope and prayer. But Drummond has been tweeting again indicating he might welcome moving to Boston. If that happens will Andre take over the job as team leader for the Celtics? He has experience in that area. Let's hope Brad Stevens didn't read Andre's advise to his Piston teammates this summer relating to the importance of resting a lot. All of the players that Stan Van Gundy has placed his trust in have betrayed him so far. I know some of you actually believe the nonsense that this team is in good shape with real studs at every starting position with fantastic backups coming off the bench. We have no weaknesses according to the local sports reporters and Piston management. It is just this memory of how those players performed in real games that bothers some of us stupid fans. We just don't accept what the press and Piston propaganda media experts have been feeding us. Of course it is par for the course to expect Piston management to spin false stories. How else will they sucker innocent fans who don't pay attention to detail into buying season tickets. However, I wonder how many games TNT will broadcast next season involving the Pistons. And of course there is the matter of the experts predictions as to where Detroit will end up after next season that the propaganda team will have to drown out to avoid a lot of empty seats for every game. Looking at the projections, it seems that most experts believe Detroit will end up in the 12th position of next year's draft again or no man's land. Good luck Mr. Van Gundy if that happens.

I feel for SVG and his staff of experts as there is no doubt they feel boxed in now. Stan knows he has losers in Drummond and Jackson. He doesn't want to sign Pope either but has built up the false story lines to the point that perhaps he will do it. Then where will the team be after next season? Stan will reflect on the little moves such as failing to judge Jonas Jerebco properly long ago instead of signing three other players for more money and ending up with the Leuer contract. And Jonas sold a lot of season tickets too. The Drummond, Jackson, Leuer, Smith and Boban contacts will haunt SVG to his grave. Meanwhile we will suffer a bit for several more years watching dull boring mindless AAU style basketball which is the only typo of basketball this team is capable of playing. That is what you get with low basketball IQ players who have a questionable work ethic. They simply don't know that they don't know. They don't know that they don't know Stan's defensive rotation system. They don't understand Stan's offensive system but think they might know. And the coaching staff doesn't understand the players. It is like talking to a wall. All a coach can do is turn his back to the starters while they are playing in this mindless style and bitch out the guys on the bench to release frustration before the post game press conference. Meanwhile we will read posts from some posters who believe Detroit has great talent capable of great things yet they maybe only watched three games last season. Isiah Thomas will tell you the truth about the Pistons. Just watch him rant on NBA TV sometime. He knows what kind of players we have and how they stack up with NBA players on other teams. Or ask Bill Laimbeer who doesn't watch the Pistons anymore. Can you guess the reason why? All of the Bad Boys and Billups team was invited to the Palace last season and saw our team in action. They saw Andre dancing in the circle before the games and then go out and play defense with his arms below his waist. They saw the point guard ball hogs in action too and a lot of standing around. You would think that all of the coaches would be embarrassed but it seems that they aren't. And the owner is not embarrassed either. Only the fans are embarrassed. I can't wear my Piston hat out on my runs anymore.

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The Process has never worked, the Process has never worked, the Process....

Post  Sparma on Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:56 pm

I agree with you Go Stones.  Looks to me like Philly is well on their way, particularly if they pull off the heavily rumored trade for Fultz at #1.

I wish our "process" was working nearly as well.

Go Stones! wrote:Well, it appears GSW and Cavs are our the current favorites for Finals.  We saw Boston come very close, and with Ainge in charge it will come soon enough.  I see that Ainge is slowly bettering that group and being very savvy with possibly trading down so he helps his future.  

I'M VERY CONCERNED!  Boston is going to be the new hot spot.  I'm MORE concerned about Philly though!  They have been the brunt of every joke the last decade, however, if you look at their lineup a Fultz-Simmons-Embiid group may be the future.  Why?  Well, Philly is ONLY committed to $36M next year!  That leaves money for at least 2 All-star-caliber-money that could be added to these young guys!  Think about adding a SG and SF like Wade and Durant to that group or the equivalent.  The other guys (Bayless, McConnell, Covington, Holmes, Stauskas) as the bench.  Mixing vets and young guys has historically been very successful.  If Philly knows what they are doing now with new admin, it could get very scary.  

The reason the Cavs won't win moving forward is b/c Lebron is getting older and demands $30M+ per year.  That will not end well in the future. GSW may have a dynasty on their hands, but only if the players share and not get greedy.  If all sign for 1/2 of their potential it will all work out. Only injuries and getting old/slow will give anyone else a shot in that case.

Your thoughts?
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Go Danny

Post  Sparma on Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:54 pm

Leroux at SI: "The Pistons are in an unenviable position to start the summer. While they have a talented roster, they are a rare non-playoff team with very little flexibility."

I think (evidently contra Don?) that's a fair statement of our situation.

It gets to be pretty disheartening when we're told there's no cap space for spending (except for maybe or maybe not the mid level exception?), but I can agree that it's a talented roster, particularly in its depth.

What's disappointing to me is that the depth wasn't used well last year. Specifically, with Drummond, Baynes, Boban (and, in a pinch, Leuer and Ellenson) able to man the C position, I'd hoped that SVG planned to create some mismatches of our own. Not so though, with Boban and Ellenson spending almost the entire year on the bench, even when it looked like Boban could be an offensive weapon.
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Hammond

Post  Go Stones! on Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:39 pm

As you guys know, Hammond was the assistant GM under Dumars that brought the 2000 Pistons a TON closer to the 2004 Pistons. Together they did it by packaging moderately valuable players together to get a greater player. Hammond was working towards that with the Bucks. They have so many nice pieces that Kidd had a problem trying to find minutes for everyone. Now you will see them package a couple to get a larger piece, but Hammond is gone to Orlando! I will project that Orlando will turn around in the next 2 years. The difference between Bucks and Magic is that Florida is easier to live in and has tax benefits that adds equivalent money to each salary.

Bottom line: With Celtics, Wiz, Cavs, Raptors winning and Philly and Magic improving in the next few years...we are screwed! Consider us equivalent to the Teal Years.
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