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Insult after insult

Post  deusXango on Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:51 pm

Is there another team in the entire NBA that kicks up as much dust over signing meager, 2nd tier, moderately talented players, as we do? I find it insulting that these players are over-paid and the commitments are too long.

Is there a team that apparently refuses to do it's due diligence in preparing for drafts; who consistently has found overwhelming flaws in their draftees, after drafting, suggesting the Pistons were somehow snookered? I find it insulting that the collective brain trust, in charge of making those assessments and evaluations, get free pass after free pass in the media.

The directionless Stan Van Gundy has taken three drafts and not come up with nothing more than potential bench players, the only sure fire one being the last; will Galloway take the shine off Kennard by the end of training camp? Johnson is being hidden more as time goes on, and Ellenson, in spite of showing his ass in leading the team through Summer League, is still more flawed than an asset to the Pistons. I'm insulted that these players are negatively being judged, because they haven't arrived in the league playing like all-pros and SVG acquires mediocre players to play in front of them, thus hindering them from developing...this team is in the late lottery more often than not!

There are too many diversionary, none basketball articles written about SVG's personal life (his mongrel dog, Eastwood, for example) than scathing, dissecting, articles examining the lackadaisical running of the team. Joe Dumars took advantage of his power with the press, to turn a blind eye to the nonsense he was guilty of, and we were all insulted by that. Joe had delivered a winning culture and championship before loosing his mind, but Van Gundy has only given us one 8th seed in the playoffs, resulting in a first round sweep, before totally wreaking the franchises hope recovering any competitiveness.

Why's the 3rd PG being paid more than the backup/possible starter? What impact will Galloway have on Smith and Kennard's playing time? Will Harris continue to come off the bench, behind Leuer, and where will that leave Ellenson after the apparent hard work he's put in; now that I think on it, Harris is working also. Is Leuer resting like his leader suggested? Will Reggie see the floor better, and pass the ball to his teammates who he see open? Considering Reggie doesn't have that blazing end-to-end speed, will he be inclined to pass the ball up the floor? If KCP doesn't get the $20+ million contract, he has his country bumpkin mind set on, will he work on improving or will he regress? Mathematics is preventing SVG from giving KCP a max. contract, but will he make up for it by allowing him to dominate the playing time at SG? If he does, what sense did it make to sign Galloway so soon, and what'll it do to Kennard? How'll this effect fan support?
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Ya never know/ KCP

Post  Sparma on Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:37 am

It's my understanding that the Nets and Philly were thought to be the two most likely bidders for KCP. The Nets made a surprising deal for D'Angelo Russell, a trade that would have been really hard to predict specifically, given how favorable it was to the Nets. Word is that they'd like to work Russell and Jeremy Lin together, even though both are primarily PGs, leaving a lot less room than expected for KCP. Small wonder that they made a max offer for forward Otto Porter, who's likely a better player than KCP. If Washington matches, as is likely, then the Nets may make an offer to KCP. But good chance that they won't anymore, because they're happier with their guard situation post-trade. Philly's position also changed because of a trade, this one with Boston. Had they drafted a forward at #3, as Boston ended up doing, there would have been more space for KCP. With the top pick, they drafted a (point) guard. Further, with three hugely promising players in place, Philly was able to make their first big FA signing, JJ Redick, a shooting guard directly in competition with KCP. So with both of the two most likely destinations, the market turned down for KCP due to post-season developments. In addition, the RFA market proved, in general, to be cooler than expected, at least a while ago, because the salary cap number's lower than last year.

All that makes it pretty difficult to predict at this point what will happen for KCP. As much as anything the Pistons ran into a bit of luck with the two principal suitors being far less likely to come through with the big offer than could reasonably have been predicted during the season. Now that the dust is settling, we'll see if one of the teams with a bunch of money left still makes a move for KCP. That still could be the Nets, if Wash matches with Porter, or it could be a team like Phoenix. At this point, it doesn't look like there's a super likely suitor for KCP this summer. Consequently, I notice that just in the last day or two there have been stories about KCP accepting the qualifying offer and being an unrestricted FA last summer. Now that I hadn't foreseen at all, even though I did have a sense early with Monroe that he might well go that route. I do agree with you, Don, that the Pistons shouldn't bid against themselves (as they may have done with Reggie, and likely did do with Ben Gordon back in the day).
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Pistons make championship game in Orlando - KCP status and all the hype leading up to free agency

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:28 pm

Today's game looked too much like the regular season Piston games. Lorenzo Brown started at point guard and in my opinion played another sub par game especially in the first quarter. On the other hand Pierre Jackson is quick as lightning and ran the team much better. But in this game players were not moving without the basketball or setting or using screens much at all. Too many times Piston players were standing around and eventually someone would shoot a low percentage shot. One thing about Piston stats last season is important. While the experts might look to the shooting percentages and say Detroit needs better shooters, I believe the shooting percentages were low because of the dysfunctional offense where Piston point guards try to do too much by creating the offense all by themselves. Are Last years Starters capable of running a more complex half court offense where they use both sides of the court and use screens to get their shots instead of launching long range bombs that are contested? I hope these young guys play with some teamwork in the championship game and the coach pays closer attention when the subs get out of control and stop playing defense.

Some of us were right about the speculation that the Nets and other teams were standing in line to present offers to Pope. All those stories must have been planted by Pope's agent so the Pistons would mentally be conditioned that they would have to play KCP big money. I see a lot of other players including 3 players on Golden State who are far better players that settled with really moderate contract offers. Maybe Piston management felt last season that they didn't want to get into a bidding war for Drummond but my thought is that they should have waited it out because most teams know all of Drummond's weaknesses on the defensive end and they know about his attitude of disregarding what the coaches designate as his role for the team. My personal wish is that Pope accepts the qualifying offer and waits until next season to test the market. I hope that Detroit does not offer a long term contract at all unless the contract is for 3 to 4 years at no more than $9 mil/yr. Pope has to prove that he can become a better decision maker and ball handler. He needs to show that he can set screens and play off screens better. And he has to stop gambling on defense. Free Press writer Ellis was interviewed and made a stab at the offer Detroit should made with was $18mil. Will Piston management bid against themselves again? They big against themselves with Drummond, Leuer, Smith and Boban last season. How dumb can you get? I refuse to believe that SVG will made that same mistake again knowing how his blundering spending has cost the team this summer.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:17 pm

deusXango wrote:A starting lineup with a non-defensive center, who wants to be the #1 offensive option, but isn't an accomplished scorer.
Andre Drummond
A starting PF who's never been a team starter, weak rim protector, weak P & R defender, and lacking offensive confidence.
Jon Leuer
A starting SF who's your classic "black hole", has leadership abilities...abilities that would be better served leading the 2nd unit.
Marcus Morris
A starting SG who's viewed as "the best player on the team," but in all actuality is the teams most inconsistent.
KCP
A starting PG who's the NBA's biggest question mark...low on stamina, high on ball dominance, and mediocre in leadership.
Reggie Jackson

Come hell or high-water, this is the starting lineup SVG will ride until there's an injury (heaven forbid), or a sudden dwindling of attendance (which you won't have any choice but to fire him); fan ire, or team uprising won't move this mule stubborn man. I implore you to get out in front of that painful embarrassment and fire him now. Sure, there'll be some dissenting voices, but they'll be soundly over toned by the cheers that'll go up behind your courageous and compassionate decision. The sooner the better, because once the season starts and the house has to be torn down, this season will be lost.

If before the end of Summer League he comes to you, looks you in the eye, and gives you his word on the change of past practices, guarantees he'll be playing the young core (players under age 25) extensively to prepare them as an unified group to contend in the next 2-3 years, and make the necessary trades (Jackson and Leuer) to bring the payroll down, and strengthen the teams future flexibility. He'll give his word to take this seemingly ill-fitting team and put together a cohesive, highly competitive rotation, that'll play hard and be exciting every night, regardless of their paychecks...paychecks don't win games, players who're competitive and determined win games. This should be the only standard SVG could meet that would allow him to enter the pre-season as both President and Head Coach.

His reckless spending on 2nd tier, mediocre players, going into games unprepared (at least coming out of them with that excuse), starting lineups loaded with non-defenders, but complaining about poor defensive effort, rotations based on bias rather than professional logic, and politicking in areas that are not basketball related...when the team shows some consistency in winning, then and only then should he exercise that right! Living on yesterdays glory isn't worth two dead fly's today; what he did in Orlando hasn't translated to success in Detroit and what Reggie did two years ago doesn't offer any guarantees for a winning leader next year. Drummond and Jackson are both stumbling blocks to the teams growth today, but Drummond is a safer bet going forward...it's bad business to trade Drummond and keep Jackson on the roster, no matter how low his trade value has fallen, so demand that SVG make the hard decisions that goes along with the power he wanted!

I second that dX. Add my name to your list to present to the owner.

Exciting game in Orlando with the Pistons getting a huge lead in the first quarter and then the 2nd unit comes in and everything breaks down and infects the players who started the 2nd half. Ellenson played really well in the first half and then showed off some of his weaknesses which is lack of ability to stop dribble penetration yet. But Ellenson is a gamer for sure and has special offensive gifts which should translate to huge success in future years. Kennard impresses me a lot. While some alleged basketball idiots decided to mention that he doesn't have long enough arms those same experts somehow didn't know how quick his hands are and his reaction time is elite. Luke knows how to react to every offensive situation. He moves without the ball all the time and sets screens and uses screens while the players in Detroit's starting rotation still have no clue how to use screens with the exception of Harris. Kennard is calm yet determined in clutch situations. He did not blink an eye when he stepped up to drill three straight foul shots at the end of regulation to send the game to overtime. I am so impressed that even knowing how SVG hates to use rookies, he will be forced to play Kennard massive minutes this next season if he wants to win. Detroit has not had a player in Kennard's caliber in a long time Piston fans. He is a smart basketball player who should be the best player on the team in two years. WOW! I feel the same way about Kennard now as I did after Gordon Hayward was in his rookie season. They play a lot alike only different positions. But I want to see Kennard play some point guard in the summer league. One final comment on Kennard. If Luke had the lucky timing that Pope had when he came to the Pistons in the draft with no competition at the 2 guard spot and could have had anywhere near the playing time Pope has had though his rookie contract, Kennard would be outstanding. He does so many things better now than Pope it isn't even close. While Pope is the superior defender at this time, Kennard's offensive skill set relating to court vision, using screens, finishing inside, shooting stroke, ball handling, recognition skills is in the elite category. All he has to do is hold his own on defense and being that he is so damn smart, it is clear that he will be one of the few Piston players who will take the time to learn the offensive plays of all Piston opponents. He will anticipate what is going to happen and become a really good defender. He just has to stay in front of his man this season and not get beat off the dribble. Ellenson has to work on that as well.

Good coaching job by the Piston staff while SVG was sitting with his father using his phone. Piston coaches had to notice that the team chemistry on this Piston summer league team was outstanding and much different than what they experienced last year in the regular season. I think he did watch the last few of regulation and the overtimes. Stu Jackson made some comments that were way off in this game which was weird. Everyone is different in how they see the game though. I think that Moreland would really help this Piston team at the center position. He was talking and pushing his teammates into position on defense in this last game. I haven't seen a Piston center do that since Big Ben played. Great win Pistons!

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:54 pm

Sparma wrote:Rod Beard asks in a good article at detnews.

As we all know, the Pistons were below average last year.  Troublingly, Vegas sees us that way during the coming season too, as Beard reports, with our odds being 150-1 to win the championship, sitting in a three way tie for 22nd worst odds (with the Knicks (!) and Dallas).

My eyes lit up upon reading this: "Jackson missed 30 games total and the offense suffered in his absence."  

What?  Puzzling statement.  I'm pretty sure that's not true numerically.  We were 11-10 starting the season with him out.  I've heard it said (Langlois) that in the 3 game winning road winning streak we had an uncanny (lucky?) high shooting %, esp. from distance.  Do those who watched agree that the O suffered with Jackson out?

Maybe what Beard means is that the offense suffered from not having Jackson play as he had the previous year?

That has to be it Sparma. What a blunder though.

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"Can the Pistons be better than just average?"

Post  Sparma on Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:16 pm

Rod Beard asks in a good article at detnews.

As we all know, the Pistons were below average last year. Troublingly, Vegas sees us that way during the coming season too, as Beard reports, with our odds being 150-1 to win the championship, sitting in a three way tie for 22nd worst odds (with the Knicks (!) and Dallas).

My eyes lit up upon reading this: "Jackson missed 30 games total and the offense suffered in his absence."

What? Puzzling statement. I'm pretty sure that's not true numerically. We were 11-10 starting the season with him out. I've heard it said (Langlois) that in the 3 game winning road winning streak we had an uncanny (lucky?) high shooting %, esp. from distance. Do those who watched agree that the O suffered with Jackson out?

Maybe what Beard means is that the offense suffered from not having Jackson play as he had the previous year?
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A plea directly to Tom Gores

Post  deusXango on Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:55 pm

A starting lineup with a non-defensive center, who wants to be the #1 offensive option, but isn't an accomplished scorer.
Andre Drummond
A starting PF who's never been a team starter, weak rim protector, weak P & R defender, and lacking offensive confidence.
Jon Leuer
A starting SF who's your classic "black hole", has leadership abilities...abilities that would be better served leading the 2nd unit.
Marcus Morris
A starting SG who's viewed as "the best player on the team," but in all actuality is the teams most inconsistent.
KCP
A starting PG who's the NBA's biggest question mark...low on stamina, high on ball dominance, and mediocre in leadership.
Reggie Jackson

Come hell or high-water, this is the starting lineup SVG will ride until there's an injury (heaven forbid), or a sudden dwindling of attendance (which you won't have any choice but to fire him); fan ire, or team uprising won't move this mule stubborn man. I implore you to get out in front of that painful embarrassment and fire him now. Sure, there'll be some dissenting voices, but they'll be soundly over toned by the cheers that'll go up behind your courageous and compassionate decision. The sooner the better, because once the season starts and the house has to be torn down, this season will be lost.

If before the end of Summer League he comes to you, looks you in the eye, and gives you his word on the change of past practices, guarantees he'll be playing the young core (players under age 25) extensively to prepare them as an unified group to contend in the next 2-3 years, and make the necessary trades (Jackson and Leuer) to bring the payroll down, and strengthen the teams future flexibility. He'll give his word to take this seemingly ill-fitting team and put together a cohesive, highly competitive rotation, that'll play hard and be exciting every night, regardless of their paychecks...paychecks don't win games, players who're competitive and determined win games. This should be the only standard SVG could meet that would allow him to enter the pre-season as both President and Head Coach.

His reckless spending on 2nd tier, mediocre players, going into games unprepared (at least coming out of them with that excuse), starting lineups loaded with non-defenders, but complaining about poor defensive effort, rotations based on bias rather than professional logic, and politicking in areas that are not basketball related...when the team shows some consistency in winning, then and only then should he exercise that right! Living on yesterdays glory isn't worth two dead fly's today; what he did in Orlando hasn't translated to success in Detroit and what Reggie did two years ago doesn't offer any guarantees for a winning leader next year. Drummond and Jackson are both stumbling blocks to the teams growth today, but Drummond is a safer bet going forward...it's bad business to trade Drummond and keep Jackson on the roster, no matter how low his trade value has fallen, so demand that SVG make the hard decisions that goes along with the power he wanted!
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Good article on Moreland and puzzling comment by SVG regarding filling 3rd center position

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:32 pm

News flash to Stan Van Gundy. The Pistons need an upgrade at the starting center position.

The team needs a paint protector and shot blocker and a player who will agree to run the floor hard especially getting back on defense fast. We do not have that player Mr. Van Gundy. You know it but are acting like you are oblivious to this weakness in our team. I am talking about the Piston's starting center position not the 3rd string center. Comments by both Ellenson and Kennard describe the reasons why they like Moreland. He is fun to play with because he is always in the play blocking shots helping teammates etc. Those two young kids are smart players unlike your starting group Stan. If Moreland were on the team or several other big men who are now without contracts playing in the summer league like big Zeus and Moreland, if you would be fair, they would beat out the franchise player for the starting center spot. But the comments that Stan made that he will be signing one of several players management is looking at to fill that position but must wait it out because only a one year minimum contact is affordable makes one scratch one's head and wonder why you signed Galloway to a 3 year deal for considerable money based on what he has shown in the past. Hopefully Stan has a plan to trade the starting Piston center before training camp because that player doesn't want to play for Stan. He made that really clear with the "rest" comment.

Problem number 2 relating to the center position which is the weakest position on the team now with just two centers under contract and the type of centers Stan has picked involving the question of how Boban will fit this team. SVG wants up tempo offense. However, if the team cannot get stops how do you get into up tempo unless your point guards are out of control and over penetrate against two or more defenders like they did last season? Why didn't the coach learn from last year's experience?? If the team does play up tempo out of control type of offense then how can Boban be an effective player? Boban is a player who can thrive in the slow down half court grind it out type of offense. When Piston players run down the court and just jack up 3 point shots before teammates even make it past the half court line like Pope did last season, how will Boban keep up? He is a plodding type of player who can block shots on defense if he can get himself up in the paint quick enough. Knowing that SVG wants the high speed pace one has to ask the question as to why in hell he ever over paid for Boban when he was never a fit in SVG's system. Very little makes sense to me these days. I understood where Joe Dumars more than since SVG arrived and Dumars needed John Hammond to be successful when he was in command. This team needs Isiah Thomas to straighten things out. But would he take the job? He likes his current gig a lot. But one thing is for certain, this current front office team seems to be making decisions that do not make any sense and it has been happening for a long time. And the coaching is also puzzling especially last season where the head coach at least didn't seem to know why the team was suffering from bad team chemistry issues. He didn't identify which players were not doing their job. He never disciplined the players who were slackers and fakers but instead made the press believe it was all Stanley Johnson's fault. That is a great confidence builder for a 20 year old at the time. Please explain your actions Mr. Van Gundy. Do you want to be fired? The GM with the Knicks wanted out so he screwed with the team to make it happen. Is that what Stan is doing now? Does he believe this team is beyond repair because of the decisions he and his staff have made? Clearly his two key players have betrayed him in a big way but why screw up the team even more?

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:52 pm

BallinD wrote:
cool breeze wrote: If anyone can tell me why SVG gave a player a three year contract to play 2 guard and possibly be a third string point guard after he only played 18 games on a horrible team last season and could not cut it on other NBA teams before that, please explain. Now will Galloway get playing time over Kennard and Johnson even if he sucks because of the contract?

This summer was looking up for me after watching Ellenson and Kennard but most likely we will see another dysfunctional team again once the regular season begins. Don't count on Detroit making the playoffs. Even teams that have decided to blow up their teams have players on their roster good enough to beat those starters SVG put on the court last season. He wasn't able to trade Jackson or Drummond or refused to do it if any offers were made. Now we will most likely see the next news item being that Detroit signed Pope for just under the max.

Cool: I fear the same thing, and can't believe SVG would be that stupid, but here it is in our face, the immortal Langston Galloway poised to steal money from our prized rookie, which would be a classic Stupid Van Gundy move...unless there is another shoe to drop.  Here's Hoping!!  No stinking development for the damn rookie.  Though he did give SJ minutes, so there is that.  I will hold my ire!, but somebody needs to hold SVG's feet to the fire.

I'm sure though that SVG would not give pg mins to the rookie.  But we can hope.

BallinD but why so much money for this guy? Leuer and Smith got contracts that nobody would ever give them. Now of all players, Galloway, who did next to nothing gets insane money. Meanwhile, George Hill hasn't signed a contract yet. SVG wants tempo pushers to play the wild and crazy game. So how does Boban play in that kind of style? What am I saying, SVG has solid vets at every position. He has players nobody else wants.

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More Shenanigans?

Post  BallinD on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:08 pm

cool breeze wrote: If anyone can tell me why SVG gave a player a three year contract to play 2 guard and possibly be a third string point guard after he only played 18 games on a horrible team last season and could not cut it on other NBA teams before that, please explain. Now will Galloway get playing time over Kennard and Johnson even if he sucks because of the contract?

This summer was looking up for me after watching Ellenson and Kennard but most likely we will see another dysfunctional team again once the regular season begins. Don't count on Detroit making the playoffs. Even teams that have decided to blow up their teams have players on their roster good enough to beat those starters SVG put on the court last season. He wasn't able to trade Jackson or Drummond or refused to do it if any offers were made. Now we will most likely see the next news item being that Detroit signed Pope for just under the max.

Cool: I fear the same thing, and can't believe SVG would be that stupid, but here it is in our face, the immortal Langston Galloway poised to steal money from our prized rookie, which would be a classic Stupid Van Gundy move...unless there is another shoe to drop. Here's Hoping!! No stinking development for the damn rookie. Though he did give SJ minutes, so there is that. I will hold my ire!, but somebody needs to hold SVG's feet to the fire.

I'm sure though that SVG would not give pg mins to the rookie. But we can hope.
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Looking up Langston Galloway's pro history career and the amount of money the Pistons spent signing him doesn't add up.

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:09 pm

I heard what Tobias Harris said in this interview yesterday but then after reviewing his stats and finding out that he only played 18 NBA games last season on the Kings why in hell is he suddenly a good fit for our Pistons? Somebody says he is a good fit and nobody questions why. Harris said he is a good guy to have in the locker room. After seeing some really established players who have experience playing in the playoffs take one year contracts, why would any sane GM ever give Galloway a three year contract and then over pay him? Earlier I thought perhaps SVG signed him to include him in a trade. But why would any team take him now after Detroit has given him this stupid contract? Why would Galloway be an attractive piece in a trade? It appears once again this management team has made a deal that makes no sense financially. I know very little about the inner workings of how the agents dictate things in the NBA now. If anyone can tell me why SVG gave a player a three year contract to play 2 guard and possibly be a third string point guard after he only played 18 games on a horrible team last season and could not cut it on other NBA teams before that, please explain. Now will Galloway get playing time over Kennard and Johnson even if he sucks because of the contract?

This summer was looking up for me after watching Ellenson and Kennard but most likely we will see another dysfunctional team again once the regular season begins. Don't count on Detroit making the playoffs. Even teams that have decided to blow up their teams have players on their roster good enough to beat those starters SVG put on the court last season. He wasn't able to trade Jackson or Drummond or refused to do it if any offers were made. Now we will most likely see the next news item being that Detroit signed Pope for just under the max. Next season we will watch players on other teams earning a fraction of what Stan's key players make and Stan will look puzzled again and throw up his arms and say you guys are not engaged enough. Kinder works ever never spoken to losers.

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KCP contract négociations not what sports writers predicted

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:10 pm

NBA TV had a nice segment on Rich Paul after the Piston-Knicks game. Isiah Thomas interviewed him. It seems that Paul has become the most powerful agent at least relating to the NBA. Paul represents KCP. Maybe the hype relating to Pope's value leading up to free agency had a lot to do with Paul's ability to get the media involved to help his cause. KCP sure picked a smart agent. But Piston management didn't bite on all the press hype so I am giving SVG a high five today. What is Pope's current value based on some of the other players especially those players on the world champion Golden State team last week? I am puzzled with this Piston signing of Galloway. Is there something brewing with KCP and perhaps another Piston player (maybe Jackson or Drummond) relating to a trade?

If so please do not include Kennard and Ellenson! Both of those young men play with an edge. They see the court. Notice in the first quarter yesterday where Ellenson got some assists with great passes instead of settling for his jump shot? Tell me both of these guys do not have better shooting potential than anyone on this current roster? Kennard gets into the lane easily and then switches hands to throw off his defender and banks in a sweet shot off the glass. His jump shot release is perfect soft off one hand. Damn we have two players who will be fun to watch. Ellenson's release is exceptional as well. The future is with Ellenson, Kennard and Johnson. That should be the core. Two 21 year olds and one 20 year old player and all have high basketball IQs and drive to become winners. Play these guys and don't worry about the record. Give them a year to make mistakes. All three players do learn from their mistakes. Snag a top 6 draft pick next summer and that makes 4 players to build the team around. In 3 years our Pistons could be something special. If those three kids make the rotation and play together I predict the ball will be flying around on both sides of the court. There will be a lot of player and ball movement and better decision making. This group needs to play with a point guard who is not ball dominate. Therefore the point guard should be Kennard. Can he rise to the occasion as a rookie? I believe so because he is a smaller Larry Bird type player who has a lot of grit and ability to size things up real quick. He will get burnt early in the season on defense but by mid season if he gets the time on the court, Kennard will figure things out on defense and will be 50% better on that end than Jackson or Smith by the end of the season. SVG has to trust his kids this year. He has to coach them hard but make sure they keep their confidence in tact. Go Pistons!


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Sarcasm...

Post  BallinD on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:46 am

Cool: I was just mocking the short-arm crowd about Kennard. Dude is gonna be a player and has future starter written over him. Do Not Trade Him nor Ellensen, nor SJ right now, IMO.

Kennard is a great shooter and playmaker from the SG position. Tough and smart. BTW, his wingspan is the same as one Devin Booker, who lit up the association for 70 last year.

I am just hopeful because if they are putting in packages for Kid Kennard and will give him lottsa burn with Ellensen and SJ we can have a secondary ball handler to give us a modern NBA offense this year.

I love Marcus, but his ball-dominant ISO style clogs the works, same as weggie. Can we package him and Leuer? Will Drummond wake up, breathe through both nostrils and act like a rim protector along with an offensive rebound gobbler?

It will be an interesting season for so many reasons, and maybe KCP will take his rightful place as a complimentary player 3&D and not eat all the SG minutes??? We can hope.

As to trading Kennard or Ellensen, I don't think Stupid Van Gundy is that stupid...nor Gores!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:10 am

BallinD wrote:The crickets they are chirping while all predicted offers for our "must have" SG wither on the vine.  Whew!  maybe we dodged a bullet there.  

Interesting that Bob Beyer is already saying they have put in packages for Kid Kennard, who's arms are too short to play in the NBA, but somehow they are long enough to get off threes and make plays and develop "chemistry" with Ellensen, our other prospect, and presumably with SJ.  Kennard said he's already trying to figure out how to "take care of his NBA "tough" body, while it is year three and SJ is admitting he is just learning this lesson.  

Yes, our "loaded" team needs chemistry to play better than last year.  I'ts not just about personnel, long wingspan, or any of the sexier attributes we hear the pundits spew.  Is it even defense...IMHO, no.  We were close to the worst offensive teams and one of the better defensive teams.  We need defense, but if that is really the goal, jettison one "Big Dre" and "Weggie."  It is possible with Tobias, Boban, Kennard,  SJ and Ellensen we can be a juggernaut, maybe next year and start to develop a real identity around real players, not one-dimensional "athletic studs," who can jump out of the gym, wave their long arms and "rest."

K

Tobias, my choice for potential future leader, correctly identified said chemistry as a must-have attribute for improvement, in direct contrast to our fearless leader Big Dre, who said we need "rest."  Refreshing to hear some sanity coming out of PistonLand.


BallinD is that really true regarding your comment on Bob Beyer? We finally draft a player who has the mental capability to become an exceptional NBA player and our retarded management can't wait to move him? I thought Kennard looked much better in this 2nd game. He had some trouble keeping in front of his man and went for some fakes but this guy picks up things real quick unlike any young draft pick I have seen play in the summer league at least for a long time. I liked his interview post game as well. He loves it. Basketball is not work for him. He enjoys the mental part of the game which is 90% of it. If he makes a mistake he learns from it. I want to see him play point guard and agree with others that it is time that Detroit used a play maker at that position who has a high basketball IQ. Plus he can shoot it perhaps better than anyone on this Piston team. Only an idiot AAU coach would be concerned with arm length. But maybe we won't see him at all. Maybe they will move Ellenson as well. Got to keep the basketball IQ down possibly. Maybe players who can actually be effective in a half court offense are not wanted so the coach can keep his lame offense and keep the AAU thing going.

Still I find it difficult to believe that the Pistons would trade either Kennard or Ellenson. But you never know if this management team is worried about being terminated they might just do anything possible to get more experience so as to lock up the 8th spot on the playoffs. Job preservation would be the motive. I hope that SVG is a bigger man than that. Both Ellenson and Kennard have a nice change of pace off the dribble. That is something that KCP has not yet mastered if he even works on it. The new free agent signing is very puzzling so something else must be in the works.

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Could be incorrect, but these are my thoughts

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:53 am

Tobias Harris, PF? Sh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!t. Why not a small ball center? If SVG and company keep insisting that Tobias is a PF to justify Jon Leuer's presence in the starting lineup and continue starting Marcus Morris alongside him, then look for more of the same we got last year. I remember distinctly when Tobias came to Detroit, by way of trade, he was the SF and Marcus was the PF...what happened along the way to change that? Marcus was a career bench player before coming to Detroit also, and Tobias was a career starter.

The longer I wait for KCP to get an offer extended to him, the less respect I have for the talking heads who've been theoretically granting him a max deal...I know KCP dreamed of being a $20+ million a year player, and I ain't mad at him, but it seems he may come home for considerably less, unless SVG looses his mind. With a manageable contract for the next 3-4 years, I'd love to have him back.

I've been campaigning for Luke Kennard to be groomed as a PG (as opposed to being a backup SG) and thus far I've seen nothing to change my mind...not only am I curious to see him play with KCP, but Drummond as well and I see the potential of him outperforming every PG we have under contract. Let me make it plain; out with Reggie ($) and keep KCP. Who looks for a backup 10-15 minute a night player with a #12 lottery pick? Certainly not a franchise that's looking to contend.

We hated Ish Smith before ever seeing him play (some still do after watching what he meant to the Pistons, without interference) and now we're going down that same road with Langston Galloway; I for one am curious to see Smith and Galloway playing the backcourt, together, in a small ball lineup. Could be something special, off the bench. Morris and Johnson can be something special also.

After a year and a summer I know it's too soon to make judgements on Henry Ellenson's fitness as a viable, starting PF, but damn!!! The young man can play...he has handles for a man 6' 11", can pass the ball and is a willing passer, possesses a mean mid-range offensive game, and a tough rebounder...what more are we looking to see? Oh yeah, the 3 ball. How our young players are allowed to develop and how our rotational players are deployed will determine how long we remain mired in mediocrity.

I'll end with one last suggestion, trade Reggie Jackson and Jon Leuer...unpopular as it may seem, trade 'um!
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Crickets

Post  BallinD on Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:14 pm

The crickets they are chirping while all predicted offers for our "must have" SG wither on the vine. Whew! maybe we dodged a bullet there.

Interesting that Bob Beyer is already saying they have put in packages for Kid Kennard, who's arms are too short to play in the NBA, but somehow they are long enough to get off threes and make plays and develop "chemistry" with Ellensen, our other prospect, and presumably with SJ. Kennard said he's already trying to figure out how to "take care of his NBA "tough" body, while it is year three and SJ is admitting he is just learning this lesson.

Yes, our "loaded" team needs chemistry to play better than last year. I'ts not just about personnel, long wingspan, or any of the sexier attributes we hear the pundits spew. Is it even defense...IMHO, no. We were close to the worst offensive teams and one of the better defensive teams. We need defense, but if that is really the goal, jettison one "Big Dre" and "Weggie." It is possible with Tobias, Boban, Kennard, SJ and Ellensen we can be a juggernaut, maybe next year and start to develop a real identity around real players, not one-dimensional "athletic studs," who can jump out of the gym, wave their long arms and "rest."

K

Tobias, my choice for potential future leader, correctly identified said chemistry as a must-have attribute for improvement, in direct contrast to our fearless leader Big Dre, who said we need "rest." Refreshing to hear some sanity coming out of PistonLand.

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Summer League Piston team - Free agent agreements

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:13 pm

SUMMER LEAGUE: Watching summer league games in Orlando is very dull especially when the announcers do not concentrate on game action and ask questions about other teams that are not actually playing the game they were hired to announce. There is no room for fans to watch the game live like in Las Vegas. Some of the teams are involved in the other summer league destinations. Why is it that SVG is determined to keep the Pistons in this venue? What connections does he still have with Orlando that forces the players to play in Orlando instead of Vegas which would be a lot more fun for the players? Does SVG get money for sending the team to Orlando? I just don't get it.

My other observation on the game yesterday involves how boring it is to watch the entire game even though I wanted to see our players perform. Then I got to thinking back to last season with the real Piston team. Yesterday there was a lot of dysfunction for the Pistons on both offense and defense. The point guards were trying to push the ball and all of the players were trying too hard to play at a fast pace. There was actually more ball and player movement though compared to the real Piston team last season. But the point guards did dominate the ball too much. I came away thinking there is no difference from this summer league team than the team I watched in the regular season last year. I doubt many fans would disagree with me that at least 80% of the time in the regular season last year our Piston team full of highly paid athletes played as if they had never played one game together in their entire lives. The point guards for sure last season did not learn their teammates strengths and weaknesses. They never were concerned about timing within the half court offense where a good solid heady point guard like our Zeke would know everything about his teammates and get the ball to them at the right spot and time. Yesterday there was not much screening going on in the Piston offense. Shots would fly from beyond the 3 point line with no regard as to where the other 4 players were located on the floor so a miss meant that the opposing team was able to get a fast break going pretty darn easy. Is this why Bill Laimbeer stated that he doesn't watch the Pistons most at all anymore? We now have an extremely smart number one draft pick who is used to playing an offense where teamwork is mandatory. How will he fit in with AAU ball that SVG seems to love above all else? Mindless stupid foolish aimless running around with no plan in mind is the norm.

FREE AGENT AGREEMENTS AND HOW THAT SHOULD RELATE TO POPE:

Joe Ingles - 4 years - $52M - Jazz

Patty Mills - 4 years - $50M - Spurs

Andre Iguodala - 3yrs - $48M - Warriors

Shaun Livingston - 3yrs - $24M - Warriors

West - 1yr - 2.3M - Warriors

Calderon - 1yr - 2.3M - Cleveland

Michael C. Williams - 2.7M

Players who are not superstars but superior to Pope want to play on a functional team not a dysfunctional team like the Pistons. They take less because the game is a lot more fun when you play with key players who know what they are doing. Mills is a solid player who has had big moments in playoff situations. Livingston had a fantastic playoff season especially in the finals this year. God would I love to have Livingston running the Piston team because he can play 3 positions and has some basketball brains. Why can't the Pistons get players on a one year contract who can actually help the team? Answer is that nobody who can play wants to play with the Piston's key players. The word has spread around the league that Detroit has a dysfunctional group of leaders who get paid the most amount of money. With this a known fact why would Piston management throw money down the drain in an attempt to sign Pope? If Pope would accept something in the range of Mills or Iguodala then maybe it would be a smart thing to do. But Pope is not in their league yet mentally. He is not in Livingston's league mentally either. Until Detroit management removes the players who cause the dysfunction and also cripple the team from making any smart moves nothing will change and as we saw last season Pope made no difference in the outcome of a bad season.

Save the money and do not take on big contracts until you move Drummond and Jackson. Then sign players to fit the mold you want to create. Other teams in the East who were much better than the Pistons last season have decided to start over. They still might end up with a better record than the Pistons by next spring. Unless the coaching staff can construct a new offense that is based on teamwork this team will like like our Piston summer league team again. Instead the reporters all spit out the same thing. What can Detroit do? All they can do is sign Pope to whatever he wants. we just can't let him go. Panic is created on a false premise. The devil is in the details and key management people must not care about details.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:47 am

Oracle wrote:Sometimes it's hard to tell much after one game... this wasn't one of those times!

Ellenson: He showed some really good stuff, but I can't see how he's better than Leuer this year. IMO, he's a long shot to displace Leuer this year, but he has a shot, but it's a long one.

Gbinije: Is gone, he's not showing much of anything

Kennard: Stanley Johnson should see absolutely no minutes backing up KCP, Kennard is for real!!! I said I thought his shot was NBA capable, but now I'm sure. This guy will space the floor like nobody we've had in awhile, and with him possibly playing SF in a small ball lineup, SVG should get a lot of mileage out of him. What's more, he's ready now, but he does have a few issues.

As I also noticed earlier, he has trouble finishing on the break, but even bigger, if this is the "Better than we thought" defense, all I can say is cover your eyes!

Ellenson wore a mask, Kennard may be the first player to openly sport a butt plug! On a few occasions he does try flailing those short arms, but anybody with any ability can drive right by him like he isn't even there.

I'm sure his defense will improve, but quite honestly, that's not why he's here, and what he does is so special, I'll hold my nose and be happy he's draining 3's!

Lastly, Kennard likely means we can safely let Bullock seek medical attention elsewhere. Good guy, just terminally on the IL too much.

Oracle it is difficult to make any judgments on the players based on summer league play. I thought the Piston point guards were out of control too much which looked like more of the same thing we watched with the point guards during the regular season. Players are attempting to play too fast but Kennard was under control on offense most of the time and he at least knows how to get himself open and create space when he is isolated. Ellenson offer passion and high energy which is rare for big men. He made a tough baseline shot but settled for the 3 too much in the 2nd half. In the first half Ellenson showed his post up skills and was especially effective on the 10 baseline jumper.

My wish would be to see Kennard running the point in the future to use his leadership and high basketball iQ more. Kennard is a really good ball handler. Detroit management seems to be attracted to point guards who are small, push the ball and make things happen quickly instead of running a half court offense.

My final thought is that I feel for the players who play in the summer league with so many unknowns. Many are without contracts knowing that they have to pull off a miracle in a very short time period. Got to love the game to do that. How about the refs blowing it and giving two technical free throws instead of one that ended up determining the outcome...

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Damn right

Post  deusXango on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:38 am

Phil1980boy wrote:Stan ability to go out and find the most average, basic, ball player and spend 21 million is amazing to me.

Jody Meeks, Martin, Gray, Galloway. And we guarantee these below average ball players also. lol

The Pistons are MAXED out and we AVERAGE! We spending 21 Million on AVERAGE!!

Come on man. Take some cash and trade into the top of the second round and try to steal A F.U.C.K.I.N.G ball player. DAMN!

How about not giving 21 million to Galloway and package some of these average ball player together and  get into the lower, first round and get A kid with potential??

I'm starting to see that Stan doesn't believe in the Detroit Pistons as A franchise or A brand.


This is what happens when you don't have A TRUE DETROIT PISTONS Type of guy running the Organization. If all Stan is going to do is make AVERAGE moves, then I say FIRE Him now and bring in Billups or even bring back Joe Dumars. Go out and get Isiah Thomas. Somebody who knows that it's possible to do more then be average in DETROIT!
Helluva post Phillip Boy!

Oracle, I apologize for misreading your post on injury and commenting on it, out of context.

Oracle pt. 2. If Ellenson is a long way from replacing Leuer in the rotation (based on todays Summer League performance) then we've got a superstar in waiting in Jon Leuer!
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Who's ready, who's not...

Post  Oracle on Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:16 pm

Sometimes it's hard to tell much after one game... this wasn't one of those times!

Ellenson: He showed some really good stuff, but I can't see how he's better than Leuer this year. IMO, he's a long shot to displace Leuer this year, but he has a shot, but it's a long one.

Gbinije: Is gone, he's not showing much of anything

Kennard: Stanley Johnson should see absolutely no minutes backing up KCP, Kennard is for real!!! I said I thought his shot was NBA capable, but now I'm sure. This guy will space the floor like nobody we've had in awhile, and with him possibly playing SF in a small ball lineup, SVG should get a lot of mileage out of him. What's more, he's ready now, but he does have a few issues.

As I also noticed earlier, he has trouble finishing on the break, but even bigger, if this is the "Better than we thought" defense, all I can say is cover your eyes!

Ellenson wore a mask, Kennard may be the first player to openly sport a butt plug! On a few occasions he does try flailing those short arms, but anybody with any ability can drive right by him like he isn't even there.

I'm sure his defense will improve, but quite honestly, that's not why he's here, and what he does is so special, I'll hold my nose and be happy he's draining 3's!

Lastly, Kennard likely means we can safely let Bullock seek medical attention elsewhere. Good guy, just terminally on the IL too much.
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Myles Turner Pacers center interview at summer league games

Post  cool breeze on Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:49 pm

Nobody needs to feel sorry for the Indiana Pacers. If anyone watched the interview between games today with Grant Hill and Turner you would have to be just a little envious if you are a Piston fan. Turner says he watched Paul George be the first man in the gym and the last to leave and Myles is modeling himself adapting that same work ethic. This man is motivated and knowledgable engaging and has all the right stuff to become a superstar himself. If you haven't watched him play much make sure you do next season. He is light years ahead of Andre Drummond relating to basketball IQ, quick recognition skills, and basic skill set on offense and defense. And of course his work ethic is well known. There is no way he would ever say that all that is needed over the summer is to rest. I can't stop thinking of that bogus comment. Indiana got some good players in the Paul George deal. Management at Indiana did a great job with a bad situation relating to losing George. We shall see just how well Stan Van Gundy's team does in the Eastern conference if he bets the farm on Jackson, Drummond and Pope.

So what will Andre do when he plays against Turner next season? I think that I have figured out SVG's game plan for all teams relating to Andre. SVG knows that Drummond cannot defend without fouling so last season special rules were created for Andre. Don't play defense. Just act like you are playing defense and do not get in foul trouble. That is why Drummond played defense with his arms down below his waist. The other strategy involved getting Drummond off the court when opposing teams employed Hack Drummond any time you can do it within the rules. Poor guy no wonder he isn't interested in practicing this summer. Coaching can't be too much fun either in Piston land. But Stan will stay the course with this strategy because the owner is shelling out over $22 mil for this nonsense. Andre will have those meaningless rebound totals too so the coach can justify agreeing to the contract. But players like Myles Turner will be working harder and harder to become the best players they can be. The fans will get to watch it all happen. We will see more dysfunction and smoke and mirrors unless SVG has fooled me has has no intention of repeating this same story line again. There must be a way to move Drummond and Jackson isn't there? What is the real plan?

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Sparma

Post  Oracle on Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:32 pm

One more....

KCP is inclined to accept either the Nets or Philly's offer and has information on what it is and has notified SVG as a courtesy.

Hell anything is possible these days  lol

One thing for sure, NBA TV is showing our youngsters in less than 1/2 hour, we need some answers there.
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Sparma

Post  Oracle on Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:28 pm

Sparma wrote:Informative piece by Duncan Smith at PP concerning our FA signing and KCP.  He's consistently outstanding, I think.

Looks like the Pistons may not be set to match a max offer to KCP.  Surprising?  A relief?  An augur of moves to come?
Interesting, I was thinking the same thing.

There is one other notion and that's that SVG knows that KCP wants to stay and will take less. Long shot, but who knows.

However, the fact is that unless a sign & trade is executed, the money coming off the books for KCP is minimal at best.

Oh, just thought of one other possibility. KCP goes the Monroe route, accepts the qualifying offer and becomes unrestricted.
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Too early to tell...

Post  Oracle on Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:25 pm

This was indeed a strange move based on the numbers(even though it makes sense on the court) unless there is something else going on.

Could the Pistons be thinking,

1. Let KCP walk? This move made signing him a lot more difficult to swallow. However, not signing him still leaves them with no money to get anyone else.

2. Could Reggie be in play, thinking they could either start his replacement or groom him while letting Ish start?

3. WTF happened to CJ Miles, 21M for him would make more sense.

So many questions...
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"hard cap dilemma"?

Post  Sparma on Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:20 pm

Informative piece by Duncan Smith at PP concerning our FA signing and KCP. He's consistently outstanding, I think.

Looks like the Pistons may not be set to match a max offer to KCP. Surprising? A relief? An augur of moves to come?
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Re: FORUM

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