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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:52 pm

Oracle wrote:All SVG can do is trade pieces.

One option is to do what the blow it up guys want, but I doubt that he would go that way.

The other is a trade involving either Reggie or Drummond bringing in a star.

Other than that, I do agree with those that say SVG is really good at spending money  lol

My bad. I ment "regarding kcp". I misinterpreted.
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Lemonpen

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:09 pm

All SVG can do is trade pieces.

One option is to do what the blow it up guys want, but I doubt that he would go that way.

The other is a trade involving either Reggie or Drummond bringing in a star.

Other than that, I do agree with those that say SVG is really good at spending money  lol
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:05 pm

Oracle wrote:This is a really good article on the KCP situation. Sparma, they conclude that the BEST place for KCP would be with your favorite the Sixers, where the talent explosion is likely to yield a good team if they defend better.

While the Lakers are likely to be bad next year, IMO, Magic will get some real talent after that, so it may not be bad, but who knows. I'm inclined to agree that the Sixers is the real opportunity to escape this sinking ship unless SVg has a really good trick up his sleeve.

Here's a taste of the article:
https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/kentavious-caldwell-pope-looking-unexpected-shot-free-agency/ wrote:Unrestricted free agency was once a pipe dream for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Any momentum the Detroit Pistons established in the first two years of coach Stan Van Gundy’s tenure is long gone. After the all-encompassing disappointment of last season, the Pistons are much closer to hitting reset on their volatile young core than actually competing in an increasingly weakened Eastern Conference. Caldwell-Pope, though, was bound to be in Detroit for at least one more season, and probably three or four – that’s the unfortunate reality faced by players coming off rookie contracts during their first foray into free agency.

Van Gundy, surprisingly, had other plans for remaking his backcourt this summer. By agreeing to a three-year, $21 million deal with Langston Galloway on July 2, the cash-strapped Pistons ensured they’d be unable to exceed the luxury tax apron for the upcoming season – a problem considering Caldwell-Pope’s market-value salary would take the team several million dollars over that threshold after factoring in Galloway’s new deal. On Friday morning, Detroit made its intentions with Caldwell-Pope official after adding additional salary in a trade for Avery Bradley, and subsequently renouncing the rights to its starting shooting guard of the past three years.

This is a win for Caldwell-Pope, certainly, but timing of the Pistons’ maneuvers complicates his unexpected turn into an unrestricted free agent. Cap space just isn’t out there anymore. Even since a flurry of highly lucrative deals were announced before July 4, many quality players have taken less money than initially anticipated – think Patrick Patterson, a role-playing archetype for the modern NBA, agreeing to a bargain-bin contract with the Oklahoma City Thunder on July 5.

Maybe I'm missing something. What more can stan do. We have no rights to exersize.
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Kentavious Caldwell-Pope looking at unexpected shot in free agency

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:59 pm

This is a really good article on the KCP situation. Sparma, they conclude that the BEST place for KCP would be with your favorite the Sixers, where the talent explosion is likely to yield a good team if they defend better.

While the Lakers are likely to be bad next year, IMO, Magic will get some real talent after that, so it may not be bad, but who knows. I'm inclined to agree that the Sixers is the real opportunity to escape this sinking ship unless SVg has a really good trick up his sleeve.

BTW, Laker fans are begging for them to sign KCP, the Lakers are offering a 1 year deal for a LARGE number, like Reddick got, but larger.

Here's a taste of the article:
https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/kentavious-caldwell-pope-looking-unexpected-shot-free-agency/ wrote:Unrestricted free agency was once a pipe dream for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Any momentum the Detroit Pistons established in the first two years of coach Stan Van Gundy’s tenure is long gone. After the all-encompassing disappointment of last season, the Pistons are much closer to hitting reset on their volatile young core than actually competing in an increasingly weakened Eastern Conference. Caldwell-Pope, though, was bound to be in Detroit for at least one more season, and probably three or four – that’s the unfortunate reality faced by players coming off rookie contracts during their first foray into free agency.

Van Gundy, surprisingly, had other plans for remaking his backcourt this summer. By agreeing to a three-year, $21 million deal with Langston Galloway on July 2, the cash-strapped Pistons ensured they’d be unable to exceed the luxury tax apron for the upcoming season – a problem considering Caldwell-Pope’s market-value salary would take the team several million dollars over that threshold after factoring in Galloway’s new deal. On Friday morning, Detroit made its intentions with Caldwell-Pope official after adding additional salary in a trade for Avery Bradley, and subsequently renouncing the rights to its starting shooting guard of the past three years.

This is a win for Caldwell-Pope, certainly, but timing of the Pistons’ maneuvers complicates his unexpected turn into an unrestricted free agent. Cap space just isn’t out there anymore. Even since a flurry of highly lucrative deals were announced before July 4, many quality players have taken less money than initially anticipated – think Patrick Patterson, a role-playing archetype for the modern NBA, agreeing to a bargain-bin contract with the Oklahoma City Thunder on July 5.
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There has to be a bigger shoe to drop...

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:34 pm

As constructed, this team took a big step back and looks weaker than we've seen when you remove both Morris & KCP.

BTW, the press is reporting that the Pistons offered KCP 5 years at 80M, or 16M per, and they turned them down. IMO, that was a fair offer considering everything, but when you hoped for 25M, well...

I agree with Lemon that Reggie held back KCP, Morris & Harris, but my fear is that he's the gift that will keep giving to Ellenson, Kennard & Stanley. Play making from any position other than Reggie is difficult in SVG's offense.

We have way to many "If's" if this is our new Piston team, SVG wil be banking on a lot, but this is, IMO, a BIG opportunity for Stanley Johnson, who I would start at SG, but knowing SVG, Bradley will get the start.

The Celtics loved Bradley, but they also realized you can't keep starting a generously listed 6'2 player at a position where most guys average around 6'5 or better.

BTW, my biggest concern is the mental aspect of the team. They're professionals and will say all of the right things, but the bloom is certainly off the SVG rose.

After promising to pay Monroe, the didn't, after swearing they would go over the CAP to sign KCP, they didn't. While there may be valid reasons in both cases, the pattern is clearly set in players minds... these people's word can not be trusted.

KCP & Morris were also popular with the players, especially Drummond & Reggie, they aren't going to like this, but I don't think it will bother their play.

It's just a bad look for the franchise, but FA's don't want to come here anyway, so how much worse can our image get...
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KCP

Post  lemonpen on Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:12 pm

Given that RJax is kryptonite to Popes production I'm good with the deal.  I guess this means we're sticking with Reg though.

4 men entering, 3 men leave.  The door is open for Ellenson.  Three cheers !!

I won't be too surprised if Bradley becomes a trade chip in February. Particularly if Reg and Dre are still around.
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Bradley: The devil is in the details...

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:56 pm

This is KEY: Players produce when they're put in the right situations that match their talents.

Moves don't mean a thing if the same old coaching misuses the players, so hopefully SVG coaches better. Here's some of the skinny on Bradley, the full article has a lot more.
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/7/7/15934734/2017-nba-offseason-avery-bradley-brings-versatile-offense-stout-defense-to-detroit wrote:Offense
If you’re penciling in Avery Bradley for point guard minutes and to serve as a Reggie Jackson replacement, let’s go ahead and hit the pause button on that now. Bradley’s not a point guard.
He can fill some point guard minutes in a pinch. He can get the ball up the court competently when needed. But Bradley is a shooting guard.

Bradley’s strengths on the offensive end revolve around his shooting ability. He’s just a 36.6 percent career three point shooter, but shot 39 percent last season and - brace yourself - he takes a lot of long twos. He converts them reasonably effectively for a long two and all, 41.6 percent for his career, but sheesh he takes a lot of them. Last year 70 percent of his shots came from beyond 16 feet.


Defense
Bradley comes to the Pistons with a reputation as a bulldog defender. As was the case with Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Bradley’s numbers haven’t always supported that reputation.

Last year Bradley allowed a 44.3 percent opponent field goal percentage, which was 2.1 percent above those opponents’ season average. That field goal percentage differential was one of the worst marks on the Celtics.
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KCP, what to do

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:39 pm

This is likely a very good thing for KCP, as both the Nets and Lakers will be taking a hard look as will others.

KCP is listed as the #2 ranked FA left after Porter, who the Wiz will match.

I hope SVG knows what he's doing because I can't see the full picture right now.
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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:33 pm

Ballin wrote:If the Pistons are actually renouncing KCP's contract, it represents a sea change in Pistonland.

1. SVG is more cagey than thought, despite his bluster of signing KCP at all costs. Those of us who ridiculed this notion appear to have interpreted things accurately. Not Core...maybe there is no core, but one is now being formed.
2. Avery Bradley is an upgrade in every way except height. He is an actual all-defensive team member (not imagined, like KCP) and he shoots better and is considered by many the best on-ball defender from the guard position. 
3. Presumably much more is to come with Weggie and Dre, who, if unable or unwilling to play Deeeetroit Basketball may find themselves outta here too.
4. SVG is going for defense with Bradley and Galloway and maybe Moreland, to compliment the offense from Tobias, Kennard, Ellensen.
5. Other moves may be afoot, including a trade for a star, but by renouncing KCP, this means a S&T is out. Stay Tuned
Excellent post, and this is a sea change, because your point 5 basically means that they ran the numbers and said KCP isn't even worth looking at a S&T for, or they realized that the teams interested had nothing to play with.

This is a gutsy and risky move that only works if they keep Reggie, but he also was the cause of low ball movement in an offense designed for him to pound until either he or Drummond had a shot.

Sparma wrote:I suppose the counter would be that KCP's productivity simply doesn't justify a max or near max contract (contra to earlier SVG & Gores bluster) which would limit roster maneuverability whereas Bradley does merit a max (or near max) deal. The roster limitations that would come with Bradley's signing would be worth it in his case, but not KCP's. 
This is an excellent observation. We all knew KCP didn't deserve a max, but I thought they had made the moves for him to settle for around 16/17M.

This is too radical a departure from KCP is needed to he's not. My guess now is that they talked to KCP's agent and couldn't get to a level low enough and they had to do something else when KCP's camp vetoed under 20M.
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BallinD and Sparma good analysis of this fantastic news

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:29 pm

Avery Bradley will be a Piston next season! I can't believe it. What this tells me is that I have SVG and his management team all wrong. Fantastic job SVG and company. Just when I think the worst something like this move brings hope and assurance that management does want to build a championship caliber team.

Avery Bradley is a dedicated intelligent man who doesn't settle for being average. He is an outstanding defender and developed a potent offensive game that he showed off in the playoffs. Now I doubt any additional low basketball IQ players will ever be added by SVG. He drafted Kennard and now Bradley. His post game press interview after Boston lost the series against Cleveland made by a believer in Bradley. The entire picture now changes for the Pistons for the future. Bradley will be worth the big money too as Sparma indicated.

As BallinD indicated there is hopefully more to come to make the Detroit Pistons even more exciting to watch next season. Coach SVG will love coaching Avery Bradley. Sweet!

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I hope this isn't all...

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:19 pm

I'm totally torn here, losing Morris and his sweet contract bothers me a bit, Boston fleeced us on this one, we get smaller, but at least Morris gets to go to a better team, so I'm happy for him.

KCP's situation is interesting on several levels, he really needs to move on now, there's nothing here for him, and I do see Bradley as a short term upgrade, but who starts, he's good, but he isn't starting SG material. Does SVG start him and pray that Kennard develops quickly?

This is all interesting, but there has to be more, I don't see how we're better... am I missing something?

BTW, everybody taking SVG at his word better rethink, and that goes for fans, players and the media, it appears that they say one thing and will do another in a NY minute... maybe Monroe was right, LOL.
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A third thought

Post  Sparma on Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:42 pm

I've been worried that the Bradley trade just pushes back troubles for a year, with the likelihood of his salary doubling and more, while losing nice resources in Morris with his contract and the 2nd rounder.

I suppose the counter would be that KCP's productivity simply doesn't justify a max or near max contract (contra to earlier SVG & Gores bluster) which would limit roster maneuverability whereas Bradley does merit a max (or near max) deal. The roster limitations that would come with Bradley's signing would be worth it in his case, but not KCP's.

To the thought that Avery could easily walk away after a year, the counter would be that the Bird rights the Pistons would hold would allow them to offer quite a bit more lucrative max deal than competitors. Paul George may not have cared about that, but most mortals do. The Pistons may have a very good chance to resign Bradley.

In any case, the trade, the summer league events including a new signing, renouncing KCP, all make things far more interesting in Pistonland than I had expected this summer.
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Hardball Roundball

Post  BallinD on Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:53 pm

If the Pistons are actually renouncing KCP's contract, it represents a sea change in Pistonland.

1. SVG is more cagey than thought, despite his bluster of signing KCP at all costs. Those of us who ridiculed this notion appear to have interpreted things accurately. Not Core...maybe there is no core, but one is now being formed.
2. Avery Bradley is an upgrade in every way except height. He is an actual all-defensive team member (not imagined, like KCP) and he shoots better and is considered by many the best on-ball defender from the guard position.
3. Presumably much more is to come with Weggie and Dre, who, if unable or unwilling to play Deeeetroit Basketball may find themselves outta here too.
4. SVG is going for defense with Bradley and Galloway and maybe Moreland, to compliment the offense from Tobias, Kennard, Ellensen.
5. Other moves may be afoot, including a trade for a star, but by renouncing KCP, this means a S&T is out. Stay Tuned
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Second thoughts...

Post  Sparma on Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:45 pm

There goes KCP, renounced.  So the Pistons lose KCP, Morris (on a great contract), and a 2nd rounder for Bradley.  What wasn't hitting me before is that Bradley's on a 1 year deal.

Signing KCP for 18-20 mil was going to put us into a really difficult spot, with a decent team (hopefully) but very little room to improve (from without).

Now, I'm starting to see this as more of a time buying maneuver than a genuine fix.  Next year, we likely should be back in a similar spot with Bradley due a big (doubling?) pay raise.   But we'll face that conundrum again without still having Morris on a great contract and without a second rounder.

On the bright side, I'd be surprised if we're not a playoff team in our first year in the new home.  And the franchise should be energized with Bradley and an infusion of young talent on the roster and on the floor.   The roster probably makes more sense now, with Harris moving to SF and with more minutes for Ellenson at PF.

And Ellis talks about bringing in two players (could be Pierre Jackson and C.J. Miles, I think).

Evidently, Boston fans are unhappy.  Understandably.  And I do think we caught a break because we were heading into an untenably tight cap situation by signing KCP to a big deal.

If I had been the Boston GM, I would have (going back in time, pre-draft) traded Thomas to us for AD (& a pick?), would have drafted Fultz at #1, and would have kept Bradley, being in a position to resign him next summer w/o needing to worry about Thomas.  That's working on the assumption that the Hayward signing still would have happened, which may not be a fair assumption.

As Pistons GM, going back even farther, I would have traded Jackson for Rubio at the deadline, if that was out there. Under the present circumstances, I still think SVG maneuvered skillfully, but then he was the one landing himself in the difficult circumstances to begin with.
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Back in business

Post  Sparma on Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:38 pm

Wow!

The Pistons caught a break in that the Celts needed to move contracts with Hayward coming in, but smartly moved on it, in competition with multiple teams.

Good knowing you, KCP, unless you want to sign for a truly reasonable deal.

I don't understand how the trade could work: Bradley stands to earn 8.8, Morris 5. I thought one salary couldn't be like more than 125% of another in a trade, unless one team below a certain threshold?

I've been watching extensive highlights of the Summer League. For one game, they posted over 9 minutes, which likely captured about all of our good plays. I'm getting excited about integrating fresh, hungry, guys into the team, and into the rotation. And, yes, bring on Pierre Jackson.

Great post, btw, BallinD, and, earlier, specifically about him, Oracle. I've enjoyed Don's summer league game observations too.

Back to budget sanity, while taking a step forward competitively? I wouldn't have thought it possible! Credit where credit is due: great job, Stan!!

A maddening part of rooting for the team is that key players, esp AD, exude a blasé, entitled, attitude. I foresee this team being more gritty and hungry. I'd rather have seen Reggie on his way out rather than KCP, but maybe that just wasn't workable. This is the most excited I've been about the team in some while.
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Things To Like

Post  BallinD on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:25 am

Damn, I love Marcus Morris, but wow, things are getting confusing around here if we are trading our hard-charging Mook to Boston for Avery Bradley, an upgrade over KCP for sure.  What does this mean???? Well for one thing, it means we can run Tobias at the 3, IMHO his natural position.

On to regularly scheduled program!

1. Maybe Moreland...Wow, can he show Dre how to play hard and block shots.  We can hope!  Not sure if he's an NBA player, but time will tell.  I like his hustle and on court demeanor and touch around the basket.  Like we can hope some players shoot 1000 contested a day over the summer, I can hope Moreland will Dunk on Dre in camp and workouts till something clicks for the big dummy.  Or is he simply a summer league wet dream.

2. Ellensen absolutely needs to stay out of the G League and get consistent burn.  His moves and handles appear very solid.  On a bad team, he should play a lot.  I don't think we will be a bad team this year.  And if the east is as weak as it appears, we should be able to afford reasonable development time to the younguns!

3.  Kennard should get (earn) at least 15 mins per game as a rookie.  Kid Kennard could be special.  He passes, makes plays, rebounds and seems to "get it" already.  Oh, yeah, he can shoot too!  Can he run the point some?  Maybe.  Great pickup SVG.

4. Pierre Jackson.  Kid got game!!  Sign him to a two-way contract ASAP.

5. Galloway based on film, looks pretty damn good for a no-name bum who has bounced around the league.  But maybe there is more to him than that, and he could be another secondary ball-handler/scorer off the bench...
we need that, but I fear he will steal minutes from the rookie if we resign KCP.  He looks like he has Pistons DNA, maybe, so there is that.

6. Tobias already showing leadership...I like it.  Who will be our captain?


Last edited by BallinD on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops)
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:57 am

"They largely blamed last season’s 37-45 disappointment on Reggie Jackson’s knee injury, and there’s certainly a supporting argument for that."-John Niyo

There's no argument I have until this season long question is addressed; why, during the time the Pistons were clearly playing their best basketball (effective, exciting, offense, and top 5 defense) and winning, was that forward thrust of development not allowed to play out before reinstalling Reggie Jackson? Until a logical, reasonable answer is given, IMHO, Jackson's knee "injury" is not as much to blame for that wasted, disappointing season as was SVG's inept decision making as coach! Every core player was playing their best basketball, on both ends of the floor, and Andre Drummond had begun routinely posting 20/20 games, in wins! KCP, Harris, and Morris were refreshingly unstoppable. That voodoo, hoodoo, crystal ball gazing, coming up with inane excuses about "how long would it have lasted with Ish Smith leading," is pure bullsh!t. The fact is, it lasted until he was replaced with Reggie Jackson...Mr. All About Me and Damn The Team. The fact is, we'll never know what the outcome would've been if the team continued to play, as was, another 25 games.

Players vilified for basketball related meeting, players (individually and collectively) criticized for not playing defense, unexplained and ridiculous benching of the most effective/consistent scorer (who happened to be the leading scorer also), not allowing Stanley Johnson to play his way through the funk he was in, as some other players had the luxury of doing, but never once showing any indication what kind of production was coming out of the coaches meeting, criticizing the offensive coordinator for that stupid, unimaginative offensive scheme was taboo, and benching the less talented/productive replacement for our top scorer when he begun to suck to high heaven....the only consistency was the number of games he sucked and the excuse given was "he lost his confidence." Git the f**k outta here!!

Thanks BallinD for giving me a touchstone off sanity...it's important to me to realize that I'm not alone in my disgust, like I'd hate to be the only one cheering when the home team is winning. It's something about me that I don't care for excuse makers, hand sitters, or band wagon jumpers that sit quietly in the darkness of denial, when leadership is prognosticating.
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Forum

Post  BallinD on Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:01 am

deusXango wrote:"Last season, the Pistons’ hopes were tempered after the news of Reggie Jackson’s tendinitis injury in the preseason. With Jackson out, Ish Smith was forced into a bigger role and the rest of the offense suffered without the leading scorer and best player from the 2015-16 season."-Rod Beard

Would someone please tell me what I apparently thought I saw in the first 21 games, particularly games 10-21? I hope that Rod Beard isn't hanging his credibility on statements like this, but this goes unnoticed because of the regularity of this B.S.!

Deus: It is an avalanche of BS coming from all corners of the GroupThink happy-talk land of delusion. Beard is a slappy like most of the local sportswriters and many fans and forumites. They take the easy, unexamined perspective because nobody wants to hurt SVG's feelings, or stick his neck out with an opinion that is original and not necessarily "positive." You have to be able to see the weeds and root them out to get the garden to grow, not pretend they don't exist, or pretend they are not a weed.

It is so funny that nobody can simply say, maybe KCP was overvalued locally, that he is not the core piece SVG is assuming he is. I get hedging bets on Galloway, but $21 million worth of hedge, and what for the rookie, who is like a breath of fresh air of playmaking from the SG spot and not to mention shooting.

Beard ranked Ish's value to the team behind SJ...and this guy attended most of the games last year too. He spun the yarn that KCP increased his offensive production and is more valuable to the than Tobias. And so it goes.

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Don't you dare believe your lying eyes

Post  deusXango on Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:28 am

"Last season, the Pistons’ hopes were tempered after the news of Reggie Jackson’s tendinitis injury in the preseason. With Jackson out, Ish Smith was forced into a bigger role and the rest of the offense suffered without the leading scorer and best player from the 2015-16 season."-Rod Beard

Would someone please tell me what I apparently thought I saw in the first 21 games, particularly games 10-21? I hope that Rod Beard isn't hanging his credibility on statements like this, but this goes unnoticed because of the regularity of this B.S.!
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Oracle/ Galloway

Post  Sparma on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:34 pm

I sent my last note before watching the video you posted. Impressive stuff.

I think the Pistons are trying to position themselves for a various contingencies. One might be that if KCP still gets a huge offer, they just let him go, riding with (combo guard) Galloway and Kennard at SG and Reggie and Ish at PG. Maybe that wouldn't be so bad.

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Galloway signing// KCP

Post  Sparma on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:27 pm

I'm still puzzling over that signing. I just know what I'm reading about him, which sounds pretty good at PP. Maybe he brings leadership qualities, is suggested?

Still, it seems like overpaying, as even a Det paper remarked.

Also, the timing is weird because of the KCP situation and running up against the hard cap. I may be looking too deep for reasons for what I see as a peculiar signing, for the amount of money, the timing, and the cap ramifications, but here goes.

I wonder if the Pistons are, in part, with the timing of the deal, sending a message both to KCP and potential suitors. The Nets have a history of being able to drive up the cost of signing RFAs without needing to follow through. As I remember it was Allen Crabbe last year. It looks to me like the Nets might not go after KCP after all; still, I wonder if the timing of the Galloway deal conveys the message to potential suitors of: hey, don't play games, if you want to offer a near max deal to a pretty good player, you'd better be prepared to follow through, because we may not match, in spite of what we said earlier. And maybe there's a message to KCP too: you'd better think long and hard about signing an offer sheet, because that may be where you're going. We'd need to do some real moving to match a max or near max, so don't count on that happening, whatever we said earlier. Don't count on things just continuing as is, except for you being much richer. (Maybe not much of a threat for someone being offered 20 mil + per?)

btw, it sickens me to hear (in a Det paper, I think) that the Pistons might need to include a draft pick in order to be able to move Leuer out in order to be able to sign KCP. Not the way to build a franchise. We've been down that road (although I'd hope a 2nd rounder was meant, rather than the 1st rounder we included to move Ben Gordon).

I think Don cited Vince Ellis saying maybe 18 mil would be a fair offer. Lacking other offers, I'd like to think it could get done for 15 mil per (or less!).

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Galloway, a bit more interesting than I thought...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:16 pm



Also, "Rod Beard ranks the Pistons in value to team", Who are the top 3?
http://www.detroitnews.com/picture-gallery/sports/nba/pistons/2017/07/06/rod-beard-ranks-the-pistons-in-value-to-team/103483770/ wrote:Go through the gallery as Rod Beard of The Detroit News ranks the Pistons in terms of value to the team, including point guard Reggie Jackson.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:16 pm

Oracle wrote:Yes, these are the unforeseen events that can shape the way things turn out, but don't tell Don and his band of people that he claims KNEW that Russell was going to the Nets & the Clippers were dumping folks left and right, which of course changes the FA market. They have insight that none of us have... SMH!

This does bode well for the Pistons unless KCP goes the Monroe route, which, IMO, is the best way for him in the long term. I say that because I believe that this team will be very good and players on winning teams always "Look" better, and are better because winning teaches you good things... Always bet on yourself!
Sparma wrote:It's my understanding that the Nets and Philly were thought to be the two most likely bidders for KCP.  The Nets made a surprising deal for D'Angelo Russell, a trade that would have been really hard to predict specifically, given how favorable it was to the Nets.  Word is that they'd like to work Russell and Jeremy Lin together, even though both are primarily PGs, leaving a lot less room than expected for KCP.  Small wonder that they made a max offer for forward Otto Porter, who's likely a better player than KCP.  If Washington matches, as is likely, then the Nets may make an offer to KCP.  But good chance that they won't anymore, because they're happier with their guard situation post-trade.  Philly's position also changed because of a trade, this one with Boston.  Had they drafted a forward at #3, as Boston ended up doing, there would have been more space for KCP.  With the top pick, they drafted a (point) guard.  Further, with three hugely promising players in place, Philly was able to make their first big FA signing, JJ Redick, a shooting guard directly in competition with KCP.  So with both of the two most likely destinations, the market turned down for KCP due to post-season developments.  In addition, the RFA market proved, in general, to be cooler than expected, at least a while ago, because the salary cap number's lower than last year.

All that makes it pretty difficult to predict at this point what will happen for KCP.  As much as anything the Pistons ran into a bit of luck with the two principal suitors being far less likely to come through with the big offer than could reasonably have been predicted during the season.  Now that the dust is settling, we'll see if one of the teams with a bunch of money left still makes a move for KCP.  That still could be the Nets, if Wash matches with Porter, or it could be a team like Phoenix.  At this point, it doesn't look like there's a super likely suitor for KCP this summer.  Consequently, I notice that just in the last day or two there have been stories about KCP accepting the qualifying offer and being an unrestricted FA last summer.  Now that I hadn't foreseen at all, even though I did have a sense early with Monroe that he might well go that route.  I do agree with you, Don, that the Pistons shouldn't bid against themselves (as they may have done with Reggie, and likely did do with Ben Gordon back in the day).

I never said that my supposed " band of people" knew anything about those trades Oracle. Your hate for a fellow poster is shinning though again. What aroused you nasty side? Are you a victim of spousal abuse? If so report it and and don't feel embarrassed because there are a lot of women out there who are pretty tough. My I suggest that you stop making things up about your Piston brothers. All I like to report on is what I see about the value of current Pistons who were big players in the disgraceful past season. It is just an opinion. We all have a different opinion. You want to be a judge or protector perhaps.

I am afraid that we helpless fans who cannot make any decisions will see the same product on the court that many fans saw last season the way things are going. The starters as a group hated playing with each other and showed it clearly on the hardwood for most of the season and especially in the biggest games which happened in the closing weeks of the season. Pope was a big part of the losing along with SVG's other pet players including the franchise player that you seem to have so much respect for even though Andre is resting over the summer months while other NBA players on opposing teams who are making far less are working to improve. Those big men work hard knowing that Andre Drummond will be even easier prey as his mother serves him a half gallon of ice cream as he takes breaks from watching the soaps. (Honestly Andre I hope like hell you are working out and will fool everyone and will not come to training camp weighing 340LBs).

Pope had no hesitation shooting the rock from wherever he could get open. That is the same problem a lot of the starters had. So why is he so important now? Teams in the alleged hunt for KCP picked other players. Who gives a crap? I don't. I want a player to man the 2 guard who is a whole lot better than Pope or the Pistons have no chance in hell to ever win a title. He is not a high basketball IQ player. He is not a good ball handler. He is not a good penetrator who can finish. His passing skills are below average for a NBA top tier money player. I can't recall the last time I saw him set a screen like our rookie Kennard has done in the summer league games. He doesn't know how to use screens like our rookie Kennard or 2nd year player Ellenson. He doesn't have great basketball instincts like Johnson and Kennard. What Pope has is a lot of experience because SVG made sure he got 90% of the minutes regardless of how he played. And we cannot forget that SVG told the press who reported to us that "KCP has a green light to shoot it". Why in hell would any coach tell that to a historically low percentage shooter like Pope? That is why I include him a one of SVG's pet players. He has treated Pope special. Isn't that sweet so why not finish it all off with a near max contract and we can all have some apple pie to celebrate. Exactly what will we be celebrating as Piston fans? More guaranteed losing seasons perhaps? Stan has ignored those long three point shot attempts in transition which are chemistry killer if you miss. Is Stan working with graphs this summer trying to figure out why his team had such bad team chemistry? Accountability is not one of the factors that Stan must study. There was no accountability for Stan's Pet Players. They all had "the Green Light". Just jack up your shot Pet Players. I will get down and dirty with the selected fringe players to show How tough a coach can get. Meanwhile Pope's teammates run hard to get open for a layup but see the ball fly in the air while they are almost to the free throw line with no opponent in sight. A high rebound goes to the opponent who sends the ball back down the other way. This is when SVG turns his back to the game action and says to himself I didn't see that but doesn't connect that that moment might be a chemistry killing moment. The players who busted their asses to get the easy layup look puzzled as they run full blast back on defense only to get there a little too late to prevent an easy score. There is no way that Pope has ever demonstrated that he is an outstanding long range shooter. Therefore, he should not try to take advantage of the "GREEN LIIGHT" our silly coach has bestowed. Pope should instead pass the ball to the open man. That creates good team chemistry. But the coach just can't figure out what went wrong with the team chemistry. At some time the owner will realize that just throwing money at people will not necessarily get the job done. A high school coach would notice that type of stupid play and make corrections to avoid what comes if you don't do the right thing as a coach. Yes you guessed it. The team will contract the disease called bad team chemistry. If you ignore the obvious as a coach the team will have no hope. All I can say is the Piston coaching staff must have a lot of YES men because they lived through all those boring basketball games last season.

By the way I wonder what is going on with all those teams that want Andre Drummond so badly. He is special of course and is the one pet SVG player who wears a special badge in practice saying "I am special. No coach can scold me because of my sensitive nature. I don't run the sprints hard because I don't feel like it. And don't let that shooting coach get near me or I will call my agent. I think that I will skip the suicides and go over to the side and work more on my baseline hook shot. Get someone to fetch the ball for me. SVG says OK Andre I just hope you have some fun. Please don't call Tom on me.

The news about how lucky the pistons might yet be because no team has made a max offer to Pope is exciting isn't it? If we can just get him to sign that contract the Pistons are set. It will take a lot of hard work by this great Piston management team but they will get their man. Here is a news flash for those who are on pins and needles over the delay in signing Pope. There is a high probability that none of the following players will ever be key players on a team that makes the NBA finals in their entire careers wherever they might go after departing the Pistons.

Drummond (highest paid dysfunctional player)

KCP (soon to be 2nd highest paid dysfunctional player)

Jackson (3rd highest paid dysfunctional player)

Leuer ( why couldn't Detroit have signed him for less money and less years)

Smith ( which he would shoot less and defend better)

Morris ( another SVG pet who scares SVG so much that he agreed to start him at his chosen position small forward rather than risk taking a beating)

Langston Galloway ( the crafty insurance piece that SVG has always wanted so he can make sure that none of his younger players ever see the court. Could it be that Galloway will end up being the starter for the Pistons. It might not be a bad idea because he does play smarter and harder even though he has had problems finding a home for any length of time. I will take him off the loser list. Sorry Langston.

Harris, Ellenson, Kennard and Johnson will be traded because they might be the only players who he can trade in the future. Like college administrators, SVG loves to spend money but he has over paid the players ho need to be traded. Will he add to this list or will he keep a cool head and maybe take a pass this time around and not bid against himself? Will Pope elect to take the qualifying offer? All I want is to see fair competition for the 2 guard position this year. Will that ever happen?

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The best Pistons in Summer League...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:42 pm

Well, this hasn't been the dynamic summer leagues of the past, when Pistons like KCP & Stanley simply DOMINATED the summer leagues, but it has been very productive.

1. Jackson was the BEST player in summer league. Plenty of talk here by the guys that say SVG plays favorites, but none of it about the guy that was clearly the best player on our team. He ran the team, dished assists and scored when needed, a general all around game nets him the best player award.

2. The Skywalker was a close second. Kennard didn't dominate, but he showed me everything I wanted to see from him. When his 3 point shooting sucked, he used his mid range game or took it directly to the hoop. He also showed that he's a fierce competitor, and that counts for a lot. Some complain that we've noticed that he has short arms. Why the truth bothers them is not understood, but short arms don't appear to hamper Luke, at least not in summer league. Color me impressed with the young man! If KCP stays around, the kid will give him the competition that I've always wanted at SG.

3. Ellenson is 3rd, but his choke job in the championship game was a big problem. While Luke stepped up his game Ellenson just barely beat out silent G by a point for scrub of the game. However, taken as a whole, he had a good summer, showing improved strength, a somewhat improved 3 point shot, and the ability to back down summer league scrubs although that skil may not translate to the NBA.

4. Moreland was a huge surprise for me. This dude protects the rim like we wished Drummond could and can shoot FT's. IMO, between him and Boban, Andre better watch his back and his lunch. Hungry dudes tend to be very aggressive and they might be able to limit Drummonds minutes if he doesn't get with the program.
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Shhhhh...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:25 pm

Yes, these are the unforeseen events that can shape the way things turn out, but don't tell Don and his band of people that he claims KNEW that Russell was going to the Nets & the Clippers were dumping folks left and right, which of course changes the FA market. They have insight that none of us have... SMH!

This does bode well for the Pistons unless KCP goes the Monroe route, which, IMO, is the best way for him in the long term. I say that because I believe that this team will be very good and players on winning teams always "Look" better, and are better because winning teaches you good things... Always bet on yourself!
Sparma wrote:It's my understanding that the Nets and Philly were thought to be the two most likely bidders for KCP.  The Nets made a surprising deal for D'Angelo Russell, a trade that would have been really hard to predict specifically, given how favorable it was to the Nets.  Word is that they'd like to work Russell and Jeremy Lin together, even though both are primarily PGs, leaving a lot less room than expected for KCP.  Small wonder that they made a max offer for forward Otto Porter, who's likely a better player than KCP.  If Washington matches, as is likely, then the Nets may make an offer to KCP.  But good chance that they won't anymore, because they're happier with their guard situation post-trade.  Philly's position also changed because of a trade, this one with Boston.  Had they drafted a forward at #3, as Boston ended up doing, there would have been more space for KCP.  With the top pick, they drafted a (point) guard.  Further, with three hugely promising players in place, Philly was able to make their first big FA signing, JJ Redick, a shooting guard directly in competition with KCP.  So with both of the two most likely destinations, the market turned down for KCP due to post-season developments.  In addition, the RFA market proved, in general, to be cooler than expected, at least a while ago, because the salary cap number's lower than last year.

All that makes it pretty difficult to predict at this point what will happen for KCP.  As much as anything the Pistons ran into a bit of luck with the two principal suitors being far less likely to come through with the big offer than could reasonably have been predicted during the season.  Now that the dust is settling, we'll see if one of the teams with a bunch of money left still makes a move for KCP.  That still could be the Nets, if Wash matches with Porter, or it could be a team like Phoenix.  At this point, it doesn't look like there's a super likely suitor for KCP this summer.  Consequently, I notice that just in the last day or two there have been stories about KCP accepting the qualifying offer and being an unrestricted FA last summer.  Now that I hadn't foreseen at all, even though I did have a sense early with Monroe that he might well go that route.  I do agree with you, Don, that the Pistons shouldn't bid against themselves (as they may have done with Reggie, and likely did do with Ben Gordon back in the day).
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