Re: FORUM

[BallinD]

Oracle, you may be confusing me with another poster.  I have not used the word homer directed at you or anyone else, but it may have been implied, and you picked up on that.  There's an old saying, If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one you hit is the one that yelps.

Nobody said stop looking for those guys with those tools either, nor implied that.  In fact, what I am saying is there are other tools just as valuable or more, and that the presence of those tools does not make one an elite, or even good player.

We seem to agree on that, so I don't know where the labels "bad way to think," or "totally disconnected thinking" come from other than a bit of venom mixed in with your logic, which does not in any way refute my post.

In defense of the little guy, or just regular guy, I think height and length is great, Oracle, but we currently have two long freaks in Andre, at 6'11 with a 7'6" wingspan yet he struggles to get those "long arms" into position to block shots or protect the rim; the same for Weggie, with his 6'11" wingspan  and 6'3" height who neither blocks shots, gets steals, nor rebounds like the shorter Bradley.(That's just a bad way to think. Just because these guys don't use their tools, doesn't mean that you stop looking for guys with those tools. Totally disconnected thinking, or should be) They are our two worst defenders.    There may be other, more pressing things to worry about in PistonLand.

Is it possible that heart, desire, footwork, smarts, positioning, film study could play as big a role in offense, defense, pound-for pound, as length and height in many cases?  Putting too much emphasis in the hard numbers, may prevent our ability to see the forest and the trees.  In this league, few jumpshooters straight up get their shots blocked or bothered, and shorter players shoot over taller, longer players on the regular.

Is it possible? Yes!  Of course it is...Isaiah Thomas (Vers. 1&2), Steph Curry, CP3, Ben Wallace, Iverson, Avery Bradley, Barkley, Moses Malone, Archibald, and so it goes.  What is the norm anyway?  Isn't it like a mean, where there are equal numbers above and below the level of the issue of concern?  Looking to the norm, tells you little of nothing.  Often the outliers are way more interesting and illustrative.  The norm is at best the baseline, but it gives you the Tony Mitchells of the world just as often as it gives you the Kawhi Leonards.

Is it the norm... hell no! Nobody in their right mind ignores the numbers/measurements, that's not realistic unless we use your favorite word... Homer    Pray tell, who said ignore anything.  I simply said there may be other considerations just as important or more important.  

no offense intended, I just couldn't resist, since you regularly use that word when any of us start dreaming.  Not sure this applies at all, my argument is more expansive, while yours is limiting.  

Having said that, I do believe in this case you may have a point, but here's my problem with you guys. Guys?? I'm just one guy, not a pantheon of guys with a monolithic viewpoint.

Why is it you can't take someone saying that they would like to take a wait and see? Are you so sure that everything translates, that SVG's death bed conversion has made his system better?  Never said that, and I believe I have said quite often that we will have to wait and see a lot of things.  To me that is part of the excitement, rather than closing off possibilities cause youre not tall enough or your arms are not the longest.  That is what I have said and am saying here.  Please do not put words in my mouth.

I think we'll be alright, but I simply won't close the door and assume the stuff you're taking for granted.  What am I taking for granted here?  I have made no assertions and closed no doors, rather opened others.  The only assertion implied is that there is more to consider than height and length.  

It's not a question of being right or wrong, I hope you're right, but IMO, while we can trust, we should have the foresight to verify as well.

[Oracle]

In defense of the little guy, or just regular guy, I think height and length is great, Oracle, but we currently have two long freaks in Andre, at 6'11 with a 7'6" wingspan yet he struggles to get those "long arms" into position to block shots or protect the rim; the same for Weggie, with his 6'11" wingspan  and 6'3" height who neither blocks shots, gets steals, nor rebounds like the shorter Bradley.(That's just a bad way to think. Just because these guys don't use their tools, doesn't mean that you stop looking for guys with those tools. Totally disconnected thinking, or should be) They are our two worst defenders.    There may be other, more pressing things to worry about in PistonLand.

Is it possible that heart, desire, footwork, smarts, positioning, film study could play as big a role in offense, defense, pound-for pound, as length and height in many cases?  Putting too much emphasis in the hard numbers, may prevent our ability to see the forest and the trees.  In this league, few jumpshooters straight up get their shots blocked or bothered, and shorter players shoot over taller, longer players on the regular.

Is it possible? Yes!

Is it the norm... hell no! Nobody in their right mind ignores the numbers/measurements, that's not realistic unless we use your favorite word... Homer 

no offense intended, I just couldn't resist, since you regularly use that word when any of us start dreaming.

Having said that, I do believe in this case you may have a point, but here's my problem with you guys.

Why is it you can't take someone saying that they would like to take a wait and see? Are you so sure that everything translates, that SVG's death bed conversion has made his system better?

I think we'll be alright, but I simply won't close the door and assume the stuff you're taking for granted.

It's not a question of being right or wrong, I hope you're right, but IMO, while we can trust, we should have the foresight to verify as well.

[BallinD]

In defense of the little guy, or just regular guy, I think height and length is great, Oracle, but we currently have two long freaks in Andre, at 6'11 with a 7'6" wingspan yet he struggles to get those "long arms" into position to block shots or protect the rim; the same for Weggie, with his 6'11" wingspan  and 6'3" height who neither blocks shots, gets steals, nor rebounds like the shorter Bradley.  They are our two worst defenders.    There may be other, more pressing things to worry about in PistonLand.

Is it possible that heart, desire, footwork, smarts, positioning, film study could play as big a role in offense, defense, pound-for pound, as length and height in many cases?  Putting too much emphasis in the hard numbers, may prevent our ability to see the forest and the trees. In this league, few jumpshooters straight up get their shots blocked or bothered, and shorter players shoot over taller, longer players on the regular.

[Oracle]

Cavs just pick up Derrick Rose.

Other areas of concern:

Stanley Johnson: This is a concern, but not a huge one, because he's been able to defend SF's much better than SG's. But his height, while not as bad as Bradley, still puts him at a disadvantage once taller SF's realize that they can shoot over him easily because he doesn't jump that high.

Bradley: Don, I did watch a little Bradley footage. I specifically stayed away from the highlight stuff and went to actual full games. One thing I noticed is the same issue I raised with Stanley, but it's much worse. Bradley is very good in using his body and tenacity to keep PG's & SG's from backing him down too low. He has more success with PG's which he tends to guard more to hide Thomas.

But what I saw from players like Wall is that when they didn't blow by him, they simply rise up and shoot, and Bradley has to just stand there and hope they miss. He has no defense against taller players like that, they rise very high and jumping to get a hand there isn't an option.

But against most teams he should be alright, especially if our help defense is working properly, but it is a concern.

[Oracle]

You and others want to believe that I'm negative about Bradley and no matter what I say, you're still going to believe it was because of KCP.

It doesn't matter that I've said I think he's an upgrade over KCP on both sides of the ball... yeah, that's what I said, but it doesn't register when all you want is to come to the conclusion you want to. Being an upgrade in a vacuum is one thing, my negativity is how that works in the real world, not on paper.

With Bradley, I need to take a wait and see posture because of the following.

1. We're a lot smaller now with the loss of KCP & Morris across the board. Stanley is smaller, the players brought in are smaller, and Bradley is smaller. That bothers me.
2. Bradley played well in Boston's system, but so did a lot of scrubs they just let go. You saw them as good, like some of GS's scrubs, but they look good in good systems surrounded by stars. How much is them and how much is their performance from the system.

Some players translate to other systems very well, others don't. I don't think it matters much here if Reggie plays well, I'm the guy you call negative for predicting a 3rd-6th seed finish for the team. I'd hate to find guys more negative than I am.

My biggest concern is the way you're thinking, that Bradley is a piece to build around, which better minds than ours have already concluded he isn't(Boston and the rest of the league, except for here).

Then finally, Bradley(who should just be a rental) represents to me, a continuation of bad planning by SVG. I see next season as a good one, but beyond that, there is no plan at all with the current players except resign Bradley, and IMO, that's worse than no plan, it's terrible.

We do have one good sized player if he gets to play in Luke "I'll slap you if you get close enough" Kennard. Here's how his Mom describes him to her friends 


Bottom line: We're in rebuild mode, but we're pretending that we aren't.

[cool breeze]

As much as I hate to say it, this question IMHO is so nuanced that it makes me hate to speak on it.  But for this upcoming season, I think there are four possibilities.

Andre: The Giant in talent, stature, measurables, athleticism, but a mental midget, not a fighter, not a winner, but could learn to be.

Reggie: So many ifs here, but if health, if attitudinal shift, if ability to make a decision on the fly, and not after five dribbles, then he could be a special and transcendent talent for us.  Unlikely.

Bradley: As sure a thing, barring health issues, that you could wish for.  Smart, intense, hates to lose, defends like hell and scratches like a wild cat for points, while learning how to shoot from three at an elite level.  May (most likely) have one more step of upside to be explored before he peaks.

Tobias: With his low usage, high efficiency all around offensive game, decent defense, and ability to get his shot when he wants to, he is also very consistently good, but rarely great, possibly, partly because Reggie appears to hate him.

My vote goes to...whoever earns it.

I'll bet that if SVG actually did make the decisions for the Pistons that Jackson would be playing in Denver and Detroit would have a young pass first type point guard who will make mistakes at first but could become a really good NBA player. Andre wants Jackson. What Andre wants, Andre gets it seems. Unless SVG has been watching Jackson practice and has had several physicians give a thumbs up regarding Reggie's cardio health, why would he gamble again with Reggie? That puzzles me but as some believe, SVG is just a puppet master and Tom Gores makes all trade decisions and consults with Andre first. As none of us can know the truth about how Detroit makes their decisions on players and trades, we have to hope that Avery Bradley has a positive effect on players like Jackson and Drummond. He has to take charge of the team and remove the chance of people with great power who are not on the roster meddle with the team chemistry. Jackson highly respects Bradley has he has stated to the press. Jackson is not the type of player who shares the basketball with just any teammate. That is his big problem. But maybe no players only meeting will need to take place if Bradley sets the tone. Guys like Harris, Johnson, Bullock, Kennard are players who love playing Bradley's style. If things go the right way the players with issues will have to get on board or life could be very difficult for them this year unless the owner decides to trade the players who like playing the right way. That could still happen.

[cool breeze]

As one of Brandon Knight's biggest supporters when he was drafted and played for the Pistons, I sure feel for Brandon Knight today. He has suffered another knee injury and this time it was a serious ACL type injury. Who can predict what will happen in the future? I had Knight as a player who might have a great season with the Suns this time around. He had just fully recovered from his previous injury and now it appears he will be out for at least a year.

At least Knight has scored some serious money playing basketball. Some of us are among the old players who sustained the dreaded ACL when physicians couldn't even diagnose it. Some of my friends went ahead to endure what was basically experimental type surgery with large incisions that solved nothing and made things a lot worse. In my case, I waited several years living with the knee popping out now and then and giving up basketball until my brother found a surgeon who immediately was able to have me sit down and then he lifted my leg and turned the lower leg which immediately took my knee completely out of joint. The success rate today is incredible but still athletes who suffer a serious ACL injury may never find their way back to the hardwood playing the same reckless way they did before sustaining the injury.

It is so difficult to put an NBA team together that bond and become a big winner. You need a lot of luck especially these highly paid NBA players to be physically healthy at draft time and then they need supreme luck to avoid a career ending injury crusher like Knight just experienced. I have never forgotten how Knight addressed the press after his rookie season and stated that he was a weak defender. He promised Piston fans that he would be working on his defense for the entire summer and that is just what he did too.

Knight was a very effective defensive player who took the brunt of abuse from the press and fans when the Pistons couldn't pull things together. But lost in the blame game at the time was the fact that he had to play the pick and roll with Monroe and Maxiell. Impossible to do that but the story line was that Knight is just not a point guard and Joe Dumars got so exited with the possibility to trade him to the Bucks that he threw in Middleton when no other NBA team was even interested in Jennings. Talk about being brain dead as a GM. John Hammond rejected Charlie V and Joe grabbed him thinking Charlie would make Detroit great again of course forgetting all about the fact that most good teams win with their defense. Then Joe gets burned again with a trade that will go down as one of the dumbest of all time in Piston history.
Joe Dumars was one of my favorite Piston players of all time so it is very difficult for me to understand what he did in the late stages of his other job.

[BallinD]

As much as I hate to say it, this question IMHO is so nuanced that it makes me hate to speak on it. But for this upcoming season, I think there are four possibilities.

Andre: The Giant in talent, stature, measurables, athleticism, but a mental midget, not a fighter, not a winner, but could learn to be.

Reggie: So many ifs here, but if health, if attitudinal shift, if ability to make a decision on the fly, and not after five dribbles, then he could be a special and transcendent talent for us. Unlikely.

Bradley: As sure a thing, barring health issues, that you could wish for. Smart, intense, hates to lose, defends like hell and scratches like a wild cat for points, while learning how to shoot from three at an elite level. May (most likely) have one more step of upside to be explored before he peaks.

Tobias: With his low usage, high efficiency all around offensive game, decent defense, and ability to get his shot when he wants to, he is also very consistently good, but rarely great, possibly, partly because Reggie appears to hate him.

My vote goes to...whoever earns it.

[cool breeze]

I didn't say they were although Drummond is an All Star. My point was that they are the ONLY players, IMO, that are anywhere near capable of getting there.

Nobody has ever confused Bradley or Harris of being All Stars, and neither is even projected to be capable of getting there. They've both been in the league long enough, but both are considered complementary players, not ever stars.

That was my point, that we need to get an all star back in trade, and I don't see that as a possibility at this point.

I don't think Bradley will be our best player. He may be our most rounded and balanced player, but I hesitate to say best until I see if he can even produce in this system.

Oracle you must have missed all of the conference finals games between Cleveland and Boston or the semi finals with Boston and Washington and maybe some of Bradley's regular season games last year. Is is an outstanding two way player with a high basketball IQ. We haven't had a player like Bradley is many years. Thomas is almost a bad of a defender as Reggie Jackson. It will be very interesting to see how Boston's perimeter defense works next season without Bradley. Take a look at some of the Boston basketball talk sites. Fans are sick about losing Bradley even though the team has added one hell of a player in Hayward.

The article "Revamped backcourt ---" is pretty good. Perhaps now when teams try to stop the Pistons pick and roll play between Jackson and Drummond, Jackson will actually share the ball knowing how good Bradley is and what he can to to help hide Jackson's weaknesses on defense. And maybe and this is a real maybe Jackson will come back next season with something to prove on the defensive end. I have said it before and say it again, Reggie has all the tools to become an outstanding defender like Bradley if he had the HEART. Same is true with Drummond. Sometimes when a guy like Avery Bradley comes to a new team with slackers like Jackson and Drummond, those slackers get embarrassed to the point where they change who they had previously been as ball players.

It looks like Drummond is standing pat like last summer and is not working on his biggest weakness other than free throw shooting which is his lack of understanding and desire with his slacker mentality when it comes to defense. But who knows miracles can happen and I'll bet that SVG has the odds down after coaching both players for this long. Now there is more focus by fans on the two slackers and their tendency to hide on defense. Also, the team has other new players along with Bradley to provide more insurance that the team will not be run by slackers again. Bradley, Galloway, Tolliver, and older Johnson, Bullock, and a more mature Harris might get Jackson and Drummond motivated to the point where they might start enjoying being successful defenders. Drummond comes across the baseline leaving his man to help and block an opposing shot into the stands. The crowd screams. Drummond notices the response he gets from giving max effort. This most likely is a pipe dream and has a low chance of happening as players like Drummond at least are set in their ways. But Andre has taken some real heat this summer and is not used to being called out. This year the owner cannot protect him from the fans at least. If Jackson does not actually have a cardio issue and Drummond gives the team what is most needed, the Pistons could cause some real damage in the East. I think if they both play like last season, SVG will find them a new home with the owners blessing this time around.

I am trying to make this a positive type post for a change. The point I wanted to get across to you is that being that you have been so negative about Bradley since you found out KCP not being signed, you of all people might be shocked in a good way once the season begins and you actually see what Avery Bradley brings to this team. He is a completely different type player than KCP. I do not mean to take away anything about Pope here either. Bradley will demand that the team will play the right way. He will have a big influence on how the team prepares and what type of attitude the players bring to each game. What I don't get is how you have somehow decided that Avery Bradley is another NBA player who has reached his full potential. Bradley is already playing a a very high level unlike any of the current roster players Detroit had last season. And he always comes back showing off something new he has worked on over the summer to get even better. I guarantee that you will be very excited once you see him in a Piston uniform. What I like best about him his what the Piston coaching staff has already talked about. He has a high basketball IQ and is very consistent with his effort and approach to each game. He doesn't take plays or games off. That type of approach spreads to other players. The team had no player like Bradley last season and that is why they were not only inconsistent but ended up for the last half of the season playing slacker ball.

[deusXango]

In my opinion if either or both Jackson and Drummond are traded nobody should expect that Detroit should get an All Star player in return. The best player on the team is Avery Bradley. He is closest to being a top tier NBA player. He is a man who can excel on both ends of the floor. Harris is the 2nd best player. Without Jackson and Drummond I would anticipate that Harris would be an excellent consistent player.

My excitement and hope lies with Bradley, Johnson, Kennard, Harris, Ellenson, Moreland, Boban, Bullock, Smith and whoever SVG can get for Jackson and Drummond. If Drummond and Jackson come back, they will dominate again and create that weird chemistry that killed the Pistons last season.

IMHO Don has hit the nail on the head...what team in the NBA is in need of trading their two top paid players for an All-Star? What lottery team wants/needs to trade their two top players for a star? One thing's for certain, Harris played excellent, consistent, basketball with and without our fabulous P & R duo....as a starter and non-starter. That to me is the best player on the team. He may not be sexy enough to make the fan voted All-Star Team, like Bradley, but coaches and players alike may raise a ruckus because they're left off, if the Pistons start to make some noise in the east....some star players have been left off the All-Star Team, in favor of lessor, washed-up, players, so the standard we should be looking for is "fit." Drummond and Jackson don't seem to fit the team SVG has assembled and sentiment won't hammer that square peg into a round hole. I see a team that's highly intelligent, that plays selfless basketball and works hard. I hope Little Caesar's Arena is a "No Diva Zone."

[Oracle]

I didn't say they were although Drummond is an All Star. My point was that they are the ONLY players, IMO, that are anywhere near capable of getting there.

Nobody has ever confused Bradley or Harris of being All Stars, and neither is even projected to be capable of getting there. They've both been in the league long enough, but both are considered complementary players, not ever stars.

That was my point, that we need to get an all star back in trade, and I don't see that as a possibility at this point.

I don't think Bradley will be our best player. He may be our most rounded and balanced player, but I hesitate to say best until I see if he can even produce in this system.

[cool breeze]

Without Drumond or Jackson, the ONLY player left that I even think that has a chance to be an All Star is Stanley Johnson.

Obviously I'm not saying that about Stanley based on anything he's actually done, just what I think he's capable of, but there's no one else.

We simply can't get rid of Drummond & Reggie without getting a star back, IMO!

BTW, that article on the right about Stanley making cuts, assumes a PG smart enough to hit a guy making cuts, that hasn't been my experience with this team.

Oracle you made a statement above that is confusing. Who would be the star player that we would be giving away if Drummond and Reggie are traded? If you believe one or both are star players, how did you come up with that analysis? Jackson appeared to have cardio issues last season instead of a knee injury because he looked exhausted after playing only one minute or two at the start of games. Jackson was the best Piston player the year before last. Is he the star player you are referring to? It can't be Drummond. Drummond was added to the All Star team for one season. Last year he did not play like a guy who should be considered a starter in my opinion. Andre couldn't even play in most games during crunch time. Now it appears Drummond must be listening to his agent more or his agent is planting stories again relating to Andre's loss of weight and his play in Drew League. Or how about Andre working on getting a shooting touch? When will his agent create a story stating that Drummond is working hard on improving his defense and will have a new attitude relating to his contribution on the defensive end? That is where he could develop into an All Star player but he just doesn't enjoy playing defense like our Ben Wallace did. If you don't have an aptitude for becoming a top tier defender early on in your career it seems that it becomes more difficult to ever acquire the quick recognition skill set needed to become a great shot blocker. The world according to Andre Drummond relating to the game of basketball seems to exclude sacrifice what you may want to provide what the team needs the most. No coaching staff in AD's life has ever been able to crack the code to unleash the beast in Andre Drummond when it comes to learning how to defend, set screens, box out, anticipate the play on defense, make the correct decisions on pick and roll plays, and reserve maximum energy for shot blocking. Why he hates playing defense might always be a mystery to every coach he interacts with. Andre has a guaranteed long term high end contract. He can do whatever he wishes to do. That is what must scare the hell out of SVG this summer. He hasn't changed at all it seems over this summer. He wants to get more touches on offense and is working harder on his offensive game. That is a sign that this man needs to be traded but others feel differently so I respect that to. But he is no All Star player. He gets a lot of meaningless rebounds to keep his stats on rebounds high enough to get some notice. But he is not a real basketball player yet.

In my opinion if either or both Jackson and Drummond are traded nobody should expect that Detroit should get an All Star player in return. The best player on the team is Avery Bradley. He is closest to being a top tier NBA player. He is a man who can excel on both ends of the floor. Harris is the 2nd best player. Without Jackson and Drummond I would anticipate that Harris would be an excellent consistent player.

All of my current excitement about the Pistons has nothing to do with Jackson or Drummond as you might guess. I wish SVG would move them before training camp. They are chemistry killers. My excitement and hope lies with Bradley, Johnson, Kennard, Harris, Ellenson, Moreland, Boban, Bullock, Smith and whoever SVG can get for Jackson and Drummond. If Drummond and Jackson come back, they will dominate again and create that weird chemistry that killed the Pistons last season. But I would be very surprised if the owner ever agrees to part with Andre Drummond or Reggie Jackson. Reggie is needed to make sure Andre gets his touches. Good luck if you have to be the coach in that system.

[Oracle]

Without Drumond or Jackson, the ONLY player left that I even think that has a chance to be an All Star is Stanley Johnson.

Obviously I'm not saying that about Stanley based on anything he's actually done, just what I think he's capable of, but there's no one else.

We simply can't get rid of Drummond & Reggie without getting a star back, IMO!

BTW, that article on the right about Stanley making cuts, assumes a PG smart enough to hit a guy making cuts, that hasn't been my experience with this team.

[deusXango]

Don, I didn't mean to call you a hater (I know how passionate you are and what a stickler you are for solid defense) and the "man love" narrative won't be going away anytime soon, so don't sweat it; I'm for doing whatever it takes to upgrade the PG slot on the Pistons...if it's a pass first PG great, if it's a scoring PG give me one in the mold of Wall, Curry, or Thomas, but not a sorry ass, selfish, ball hog one like Jackson. Right now, I'm all for Irving, if it takes trading Drummond to get the job done, do it!! That Drummond/Jackson dynamic in Detroit has to be broken up or ship both their asses out of here.

BallinD, I must admit I had no idea this offseason would be as exciting as it's been so far; I was looking for SVG to shot himself in the foot by resigning KCP to a max contract, trading away Harris (pennies on the dollar) to make an excuse for doing what would've been financial suicide. I don't want to get too fancy, but it'd be great if we could fleece New York or New Orleans...Porzingis, or Anthony Davis! That'd be a class "A" fleecing!! It won't happen, but I'm enjoying the dream.

I hope Drummond takes a leap forward this year, but I'm done with Jackson; his age, health, injury history, and ball hogging are turnoffs. I think he does Drummond more harm than good with the overblown P & R.

[cool breeze]

The final round with the final pairing was remarkable. even golf haters would be on the edge of your seat if you tuned in on television. Watching Jordan S. turn on the switch in the final 5 holes was one of the most incredible things in sports that I have ever witnessed. Pro golfers today are real athletes.

[cool breeze]

[quote="deusXango"]If, and, & what...if we did trade Drummond and Jackson for Kyrie and Love and they looked at the teams potential in the east & agreed to the trade, we could have a potential starting lineup of;
C- Love
PF-Harris
SF-Johnson
SG-Bradley
PG-Irving
This won't happen, of course, but the damndest thing is, the team would be built around Tobias Harris, the player SVG didn't seem to appreciate or value. I really don't see where there'd be a problem with establishing chemistry with this group, nor do I see any silly dumb-dumbs on the floor.

Don has made a strong case for a "man love" affair between Gores and Drummond so if this is true, President Van Gundy doesn't stand a chance of moving Drummond, but if it's just speculation/hating, we need to explore the possibly A.S.A.P.!!

No hating on my part dX. Special rules did apply for Andre and I am not the only person who put that together. But enough with the Man love story. I like that lineup but getting both Love and Irving might not be a possibility. How about Irving and Thompson?

C - Thompson
PF - Harris
SF - Johnson
G - Bradley
G - Irving

What we don't want is Anderson's contract. Love alone or Irving alone would be fantastic. Securing both players would be mind blowing incredible. Will our owner let go of the Jackson - Drummond pick and roll duo? I see Cleveland wanting to make a deal with the Pistons and might take both Reggie and Andre. Labron would have his hands full with those guys.

[BallinD]

@ Deus  Is this the most dynamic offseason in quite some time, and there is still the chance to fleece the Knicks or perhaps the Pelicans or the Lakers? by dumping Andre.  I like the Cavs idea though, even so I agree it will not happen, but we can probably rest in the news that something will. I would do that Trade, then maybe Flip Love.  And there is still the Melo to Houston deal we can wiggle into, so there is that.  

That being said, there is a part of me that hopes this is the year Dre gets it and Weggie finds his 2014-15 self.
Go Pistons.

[deusXango]

If, and, & what...if we did trade Drummond and Jackson for Kyrie and Love and they looked at the teams potential in the east & agreed to the trade, we could have a potential starting lineup of;
C- Love
PF-Harris
SF-Johnson
SG-Bradley
PG-Irving
This won't happen, of course, but the damndest thing is, the team would be built around Tobias Harris, the player SVG didn't seem to appreciate or value. I really don't see where there'd be a problem with establishing chemistry with this group, nor do I see any silly dumb-dumbs on the floor.

Don has made a strong case for a "man love" affair between Gores and Drummond so if this is true, President Van Gundy doesn't stand a chance of moving Drummond, but if it's just speculation/hating, we need to explore the possibly A.S.A.P.!!

[cool breeze]

The description made of Stanley Johnson in his earlier days where he was fearless as a basketball player is the SJ that I used to know and that is why I was so damn excited when SVG drafted him. If SVG is allowed to coach with no interference from above, I have high hopes it will be a really exciting and fun experience watching the Pistons. Avery Johnson, Tobias Harris, Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard are the players I hope have wonderful seasons. If players like Moreland, Bullock, Ellenson, Leuer, Smith, Boban and even Jackson and Drummond can build some good chemistry and play unselfishly and tough on defense, maybe well will forget all about last season and how the team died a slow death after the Christmas holiday.

[cool breeze]

1. Andre wil not be involved in any conditioning drills such as baseline to baseline suicides.
2. Andre gets 10 water and bathroom breaks for each practice session. They count separately which means 20 total breaks in a 2 hours practice session. The rest of the players will get one break.
3. SVG will wait outside the practice facility and wait for AD to drive in and then park his vehicle. Stan will also be forced to wear a service station uniform with his full name showing high on his chest. Stan will stay outside until Tom Gores arrives and he will park his vehicle next to Andre's. Then SVG will wash both cars.
4. Once back inside the practice facility SVG will be forced to change from the service station uniform to a speedo with a tank top and make sure he doesn't put on his whistle. Andre hates hearing whistles. Tom agrees it is frustrating for his franchise player to have to stop practicing his baseline hook or be bothered during his breaks with unfriendly sounds.
5. If Andre is in the bathroom for one of his breaks and SVG tries to install a new offense that does not feature Andre in the 4 out 1 in offensive set, practice will be stopped immediately because Tom will be watching everything that goes on when Andre is on his breaks. When Andre decides his break is over Stan, Tom and Andre will visit the coaches office for some clarification as to why SVG was going behind Andre's back.
6. Being that the shooting coach was hired on a two year contract for Andre he will be limited never getting any closer to Andre than 40 yards whenever both are at the practice facility. This will work like a restraining order for domestic violence situations. The shooting coach will be allowed to work with all of the other players but can never speak to Andre. Andre gets confused with more than one of his hand picked assistant coaches telling him how to shoot free throws. This worked well for Andre last season as his shooting percentage was better than the previous year.
7. Before the team can have a shoot around before practice starts, Tom will bring in the dance team coach with with dance team fully decked out with their game time outfits. 30 minutes will be dedicated for dance practice as this will be a new feature to be introduced at the first regular season home game where Andre will exclude all the roster players from his former traditional circle and the female dance team will take the floor at center court and form up with Andre when the lights go off. Then Hip Hop Daddy Drummond will grab the microphone and sing as he dances in the circle as the spot light shines and Andre's basketball shoes will be hotter than a two dollar gun and his voice will be pure because of that nasal surgery.
8. There will be no national anthem as the Andre show will take up all the pre game hoopla.
9. Being that SVG has been a team player for the owner by agreeing to park cars, wear the speedo and install Andre's 4 our 1 in offense, he will be allowed to bring his dog to the players bench and sit on SVG's lap during all home games. He will carry the dog in his arms much like Dr. Evil carried Mr. Bicklesworth in the Austin Powers movies. But Tom and Andre will have driven a hard bargain in their negotiations with SVG so he can bring in the dog to calm his nerves. According to the new contract, Drummond will get a minimum of 22 touches in the paint or beyond the 3 point line per game where Andre can feature his new outside game as a surprise for the fans who love him as much as the owner. Andre's confidence has grown a lot since he played in the Drew League.
10. Andre Drummond will be installed as team captain again. The owner will insist that there will be no secret vote. All roster players will have to turn their vote into the owner's hands where he alone will check the votes. Andre will be allowed to vote for himself.
11. When the team install's the defense in training camp, Andre will not participate as he gets an upset stomach whenever anyone mentions shot blocking, boxing out, communicating on pick and roll defense or thinking about the confusing rotation system that SVG employs for the other players. Andre will do his thing again and it will all work out well. After all Detroit has a top 10 defense. We all know that.
12. Andre and his girl friend at the time and Tom Gores family will fly to an undisclosed beach front Pacific Island for the Christmas holidays and Andre will not be available for any games that are scheduled from Christmas to three days past New Years.
13. In late March Andre will not be available because he will be in LA to try out for two different movie scripts. Tom hired an acting coach who will be traveling with the team for all away games. There will be no time for Andre to look at opposing game film before any of those away games.
14. Andre Drummond will be the only player on the Piston roster who will have his name on the back of his jersey.
15. Andre will receive one million dollars for each playoff game he participates in and that same amount of money will be taken out of his teammates pay in the even that the Pistons make the playoffs.
16. There will be no players only meetings during the regular season.
17. The Bad Boys annual team celebration night will be cancelled next winter and will be replaced with a special night dedicated to Andre Drummond for signing the max contract with the Pistons. Where would we be without him?

Actually there are 25 rules in place for next season and they will be revealed at a later date. Get ready for another exciting season of Piston basketball.

[BallinD]

I internally scoffed at the Kyrie Irving rumors, but now that it appears the Cavs are going after D. Rose, indicates a potential truth in there somewhere.

This year could be so interesting. I get that Kyrie thinks he is now ready to put a team on his back, kind of like Westbrook. It will have the same effect...no deep playoff run in this era of Superteams.

Milwaukee looks to be continuing on the upswing, Cavs could be crashing to Earth, Boston will be a beast, Washington and Toronto and Miami will contend for the top tier as well. Pistons, hard to say... Chemistry is such an elusive thing and with proven chemistry killers like Dre, Weggie and SVG, who can bet on the Stones?

The sooner we get Kennard contributing, the better. A lineup with Avery, Special K, Stanimal and Hank-the-Tank Ellensen, could be the makings of a contender. Not sure if Dre and Weggie are ready for prime time, but that's just me.

[Murph]

Yes, clearly Drummond and Gores are good friends.  I'm guessing the two bonded several years ago, when Gores chaperoned Drummond and McCurdy on their date in LA.  

It would not surprise me if Drummond has Gores' personal cell phone number and permission to call him anytime...like when Marcus Morris spouts off in a players only meeting.

I admit this comes from the category of, "you can't make this stuff up."  Nevertheless, that is the reality that SVG is living in.  

But as bizarre as this may seem, who's to say, Gores is wrong?  After all, Gores bought the Pistons for $325 million in 2011, and they're now worth a nifty $900 million according to Forbes.  And that figure will increase even more when the Pistons move downtown.  So I'm sure Tom Gores has no qualms about being besties with Drummond, while he counts his $575 million in increased net worth in only 6 years.

SVG, the coaching staff and the GM must have to walk on tip toes knowing they better not piss off Andre Drummond. Maybe this season Tom Gores will insist that SVG and all of his assistants dance with Andre in Andre's circle just to make sure that everyone knows that Andre Drummond is the captain. All of the lights ill go off and one big spot light will show Andre inside the circle telling the coaches to get out of the circle. SVG will have a puzzled look on his face and will flap his arms two times as he walks to his seat on the bench. Notes will be transferred during the games from the owner to SVG to insist on more post up plays for AD. The only living soul Stan will be able to vet to will be his dog who will still have behavior issues. I'll bet that Avery Bradley will not be one of the insignificant roster players who form the circle for the mega former all star AD. Fans like kid Rock who are close to the floor might hear Avery say what the hell is going on? Arn't we here to play basketball? Then Tom might appear out of nowhere after looking at his hidden cameras step and say do you want to be traded? This is Andre's team. Show him some support. Avery might be the only player who will say please trade me. Meanwhile after the game when SVG has to attend another beating at the post game press conference the snow is flying outside the arena and the windshield wipers are moving fast. Tom will be driving Andre and his date to a private party where movie deals will be discussed. Andre will feel a bit down after Whiteside gets another tip in over Andre's head to win the game but not to worry because the owner will be there to console our big center. After all who cares about the game anyway. the value of the Pistons will continue to rise. The local papers will report the following morning about the fierce fight that is going on for playing time at the power forward position with no mention of the last second win by Miami with that tip in. SVG will be forced to blame Ellenson for causing the loss this time to divert attention from the team Captain. SVG won't tell the press about his special instructions from Tom after the game. The owner might insist that SVG place some extra consideration with playing time for those power forwards who cheer the loudest and clap while Andre does the shimmy during the games and shows the most support for Andre's pre game dance routine. Now that I think about it, maybe Tom Gores is on to something. Maybe this could turn into a situation where fans just come to see what will happen next with the AD and TG show. There will some great half time entertainment as well.  

Don, that's the funniest post I've read in years, and not far from the truth.  

[cool breeze]

It's sounding to me like LeBron will be heading to Houston or the Lakers after one more season in Cleveland.  I think he's about to demonstrate that getting to the Finals is quite a feat given the right competition (in the West).

Is that going to make Detroit about #4 seed if they just keep from imploding?

If true, it is interesting that Minnesota (small market team) is on the comeup!  How fast did Minnesota ascend under Thibs, vs. SVG still treading water with the Dre & Weggie show, if it is Gores' plan, I believe (could be wrong) SVG bought all into that notion because he is the Big-Guy Whisperer by reputation and he is trying to ride that rep (P&R anybody, 1 in 4 out, that's all I got folks).  

Still, though I hope this year is the year of the Stones and soon it will be Stanley and Kennard's team as SVG rides off in infamy?  

"Among several possibilities discussed in Irving's meeting with the Cavaliers, the San Antonio Spurs were raised as a preferred destination, league sources told ESPN. Irving said he'd also be willing to join the New York Knicks, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources said."

The Big Guy Whisperer! That is what we will call him. Detroit wasn't on Irving's list. How will the dreamers deal with that? Will Mr. G. get some reporter or even his whipping boy BGW to issue a statement that Irving really would love to play with the Pistons Captain AD but he wants to live in warmer weather. Irving sees a lot of possiblities with the 1 in 4 out dance.

[BallinD]

It's sounding to me like LeBron will be heading to Houston or the Lakers after one more season in Cleveland.  I think he's about to demonstrate that getting to the Finals is quite a feat given the right competition (in the West).

Is that going to make Detroit about #4 seed if they just keep from imploding?

If true, it is interesting that Minnesota (small market team) is on the comeup!  How fast did Minnesota ascend under Thibs, vs. SVG still treading water with the Dre & Weggie show, if it is Gores' plan, I believe (could be wrong) SVG bought all into that notion because he is the Big-Guy Whisperer by reputation and he is trying to ride that rep (P&R anybody, 1 in 4 out, that's all I got folks).  

Still, though I hope this year is the year of the Stones and soon it will be Stanley and Kennard's team as SVG rides off in infamy?  

"Among several possibilities discussed in Irving's meeting with the Cavaliers, the San Antonio Spurs were raised as a preferred destination, league sources told ESPN. Irving said he'd also be willing to join the New York Knicks, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources said."

[Sparma]

It's sounding to me like LeBron will be heading to Houston or the Lakers after one more season in Cleveland. I think he's about to demonstrate that getting to the Finals is quite a feat given the right competition (in the West).

Is that going to make Detroit about #4 seed if they just keep from imploding?

I was trying to remember such mismatched conferences/ divisions. Unfortunately, what came to mind was the Twins winning in the AL Western division in 1987, then clobbering a Tigers team in the playoffs that had won 13 games more than them, led by the true MVP in Alan Trammel. Was it Gary Gaetti who played like he was heading straight to Cooperstown in that series? And we gave up a pitcher with a HOF career ahead of him to acquire the half season stud who helped us inch past Toronto.

(btw, evidently no way the Tigers can make the kind of trade Atlanta did this season, trying to be big time sellers this season.)

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