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Post  WTF Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:51 pm

Oracle wrote:
WTF wrote:Our problem is a results of weak ownership which trickle down to everything else that is crappy about this organization.  First let me say I was never for Gore getting his mitts on this team in the first place.  I really didn't care if Ilitch owned 3 of the 4 professional teams in Detroit the last thing I wanted to see was some goof ball Tom Jones look alike owning the team.

I would have been okay with a first time sport team owner if this was billionaire fan sitting at Detroit games not Lakers games.  Gore wasn't season ticket holder with Detroit but I'll bet my ass he had season tickets in LA if not a suite.  Gore most glaring mistake is allowing SVG to both coach and run the team IMO he could have kept Joe and simply hire a competent coach that didn't have to worry about Joe interfering. There's no checks and balance that is required between a coach and general manager.
I had to listen to this for years  lol  But I now like it, actually a great love song.

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Post  Oracle Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:22 pm

WTF wrote:Our problem is a results of weak ownership which trickle down to everything else that is crappy about this organization.  First let me say I was never for Gore getting his mitts on this team in the first place.  I really didn't care if Ilitch owned 3 of the 4 professional teams in Detroit the last thing I wanted to see was some goof ball Tom Jones look alike owning the team.

I would have been okay with a first time sport team owner if this was billionaire fan sitting at Detroit games not Lakers games.  Gore wasn't season ticket holder with Detroit but I'll bet my ass he had season tickets in LA if not a suite.  Gore most glaring mistake is allowing SVG to both coach and run the team IMO he could have kept Joe and simply hire a competent coach that didn't have to worry about Joe interfering. There's no checks and balance that is required between a coach and general manager.
I had to listen to this for years  lol  But I now like it, actually a great love song.

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Post  WTF Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:47 pm

Our problem is a results of weak ownership which trickle down to everything else that is crappy about this organization. First let me say I was never for Gore getting his mitts on this team in the first place. I really didn't care if Ilitch owned 3 of the 4 professional teams in Detroit the last thing I wanted to see was some goof ball Tom Jones look alike owning the team.

I would have been okay with a first time sport team owner if this was billionaire fan sitting at Detroit games not Lakers games. Gore wasn't season ticket holder with Detroit but I'll bet my ass he had season tickets in LA if not a suite. Gore most glaring mistake is allowing SVG to both coach and run the team IMO he could have kept Joe and simply hire a competent coach that didn't have to worry about Joe interfering. There's no checks and balance that is required between a coach and general manager.

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Post  deusXango Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:45 pm

Regrettably there are some very articulate fans who embrace mediocrity on all levels of our home team; from the executives, the coaching staff, the players, and the most baffling of all, who's going to be the face of our franchise. They allow their articulate voices to make seemingly logical arguments for keeping this team in "also ran" status. For instance, waiting for this imaginary time in space to make a trade, instead of "striking while the iron is hot." When that imaginary time becomes now, that players value has dropped through the floor and we're stuck with hoping that player magically transforms into something we all know is not going to happen. The local news media pumps out all sorts of scenarios of what needs to happen for that player to become a successful commodity; none of which has anything to do with what it takes for the team to become competitive...it's a damn shame when a professional basketball teams success depends on one player who's name ain't LeBron James. This is what happens when a stubborn executive allows his ego get in front of the teams best interest. The articulate fan that supports that type of management, instead of speaking out against it, is championing mediocrity.

When coaches don't give a fair and honest evaluation of what a players worth is truly about and their respective areas of responsibility are lacking, they're not doing their jobs up to fan expectations (the paying fan wheatear at the turnstiles or through subscriptions, or just through their passionate support), yes the fans have a right to expectations. A lot of us have doubts about the best team being fielded and rotations being in place for maximum results; this is what forums such as this are based on, in part. When an articulate voice takes on the mantle of "devils advocate," they're doing just, advocating for the devil! Use those special skills to support your less gifted fellow fans by bringing into question the nonsensical decisions of here and now, instead of dialogue supporting what other teams are doing successfully.

Rarely the face of a team is not the highest paid player on his team (Steph Curry before this summers signing), but it does happen sometime that the highest paid player on a team is nothing more than a tremendous role player (Andre Drummond fits this example as he's a tremendous role player). It's unfair and unfortunate that a highly paid player is demeaned and reviled because he's not qualified to be a leader or worthy of being the face of a franchise, but his outstanding contributions are ignored because of his paycheck and we make a case based on that, not his contributions.

This is where I stop being vague and start calling a spade a spade. We should've traded Reggie Jackson for Ricky Rubio when we had the chance; we brought in Jackson to replace Jennings when Jennings got hurt and we didn't give him two years to see if he would recover...he didn't. Rubio, here and now, would give us a sounder backcourt playing alongside Bradley, than an "I hope he returns to form" PG. At this point, I can't see us not coming out on top of that deal; IMHO this is a clear cut case of prideful, egotistical, confusion between the president and HC. There's no way we can possibly trade Jackson for Rubio or any PG in the class of Rubio...his current trade value is through the floor and that's what we get for waiting on the trade deadline before making a move. It's not so much that Jackson returns to form this year, or not, it's the fact that if he doesn't, we should be prepared for another sh!t year; too much is resting on the shoulders of a player with such meager skills...stats yes, but highly skilled as a PG? No, not for my money, but the articulate has put the brakes on us hoping for a winner without Jackson being on top of yesterdays game.

In the practices we're barred from seeing, how is Leuer holding up against Ellenson? It's possible that Jon is kicking Henry's ass going and coming because he won out over Tobias last year; Jon was so good that he transformed Morris from a PF into a SF, thus allowing him to take Harris's starting spot. The smooth talkers made a case that it wasn't important who started, but who finished out games; nothing about how that should've affected the teams chemistry by replacing a historical starter with a career, journeyman, bench player...we just scratch our collective heads and wonder why the entire team regressed. How many coaches and teams did Leuer play for before coming to Detroit and after 25 games SVG saw him as a starter? What was missed by all those other coaches? As recent as last week SVG stated he saw "Leuer as a starter." That tells me that Henry Ellenson doesn't have a chance to develop his game as a pro in Detroit; where is the opportunity for Luke Kennard's development? They're earmarked to become bench players in the Pistons rotation at best; at least one of them should be a starter this year. Given Kennard's skillset, mindset, age, and the Pistons needs, I don't understand why he has to wait until the All-Star break before he can be considered for starting...none of the other highly rated rookies who're going to start for their teams are waiting for no damn 1/3rd to 1/2 of the season to pass before starting. What'll that waiting do to the starters rhythm and chemistry once a new element is introduced into the mix? If Kennard is all the player everyone, but SVG, seems to think he is, then starting next to Bradley would probably make Bradley the face of this franchise and his resigning a given, but Bradley playing next to Jackson is more than likely going to turn him into that "one year rental" the more glib of tongue prophesized.

Regardless of the overriding circumstances, this team won 37 games last year. 37 wins is the golden opportunity to get creative, give your youth room to develop, see what you have, and start building a team direction, which the Pistons don't have! I had to get those things said because I believe I spoke for more than myself, I spoke for others as well.
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Post  WTF Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:43 pm

Murph wrote:Wise, can we at least wait until Kennard is having a good game and decides to drive the lane, and some not-so-nice NBA veteran who's fighting for minutes, such as Marcus Morris, lays him out with a vicious elbow above the eye that requires 8 stiches and knocks him out of the rotation for 3 games...before we anoint him the second coming of Manu Ginobili?

Here, Jonas Jerebko and Joel Anthony come to mind, not to mention Kent Benson and Kareem.

The NBA is a tough league.  No one is going to give Kennard an inch.  box

You're absolutely right Murph beside him in a game we don't know this kids heart just yet. Remember I'm going off of a gut feeling or bad case of gas on this as well. We won't really know until we really know lol

All I'm saying is that the guy clearly looks like a winner, and I can't remember the last time in a long time that we were able to look at draft pick and say the tools are certainly there. Just saying if we can look at raw talent (Andre) and anoint it Franchise based on potential then why not Kennard, if we can see all that I don't see but many others do in SJ who has fluidity and questionable mechanics on his shot then why doubt Kennard?

There are 2 young players on this roster that I would love to see get major burn just so they can get the experience now rather than later. My fear is that SVG will be more politically correct than actually correct and both players will suffer for it. Those 2 players are Ellenson and Kennard.


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Post  Murph Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:22 pm

Wise, can we at least wait until Kennard is having a good game and decides to drive the lane, and some not-so-nice NBA veteran who's fighting for minutes, such as Marcus Morris, lays him out with a vicious elbow above the eye that requires 8 stiches and knocks him out of the rotation for 4 games...before we anoint him the second coming of Manu Ginobili?

Here, Jonas Jerebko and Joel Anthony come to mind, not to mention Kent Benson and Kareem.

The NBA is a tough league.  No one is going to give Kennard an inch.  box

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Post  WTF Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:54 am

Murph wrote:
WTF wrote:Honest question for everyone.  What have you seen thus far that this kid does wrong or that is immediately noticeable as a potential flaw?  I might of missed something so please enlighten me.

Wise, my only issue is that I haven't seen Kennard play in the NBA yet.  I've learned the hard way not to get too excited about summer league.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen players like SJ or Moreland tear up the summer league, only to struggle in the NBA.  In the NBA, those young 1st round draft choices don't get the calls, aren't the focus of the offense, don't get starters minutes and they aren't playing against scrubs.  Each summer league team only has 2 or 3 potential, but raw, NBA players.  We really can't project how a player will perform in the NBA based on what we see in Orlando.

That said, I hope everything you say about Kennard is true.


I feel everyone on the we haven't seen this kid play a pro game yet so we can't say with any certainty that hell be good or not. But there a huge difference and gap between Kennard and all our other previous picks as far back as Hill. Kennard is far beyond just having raw talent he see to be fundamentally gifted unlike SJ, and AD. Even today I question the mechanics on SJ shot and his ball handling, hell we're still waiting on Andre to get his foot work and positioning correct on defense yet alone make his FT. But we all are seeing it with our own eyes now that Kennard has a lot of these fundamentals already in place.

Seems to me the biggest concern is simply the unknown because we haven't pro game yet. Most of what I initially made my assessment on was the college video clips I watched, SL only confirmed what I thought I was seeing from those videos, I wasn't looking at who he was playing against but how he was playing. Some of you have used words like smooth, poised, quick release, when talking about his shot, movement and ball handling.

I knew nothing of this kid before we drafted him and my first thoughts were "Oh My God" we drafted a set shooter with not athletic skills so like many of you I went to viewing all the video I could find on him and was totally shocked. It was what I thought I would see I thought I would see some 6"5 white guy standing on the wing hitting the long ball. I was wrong!

Video after video not all did I see him hit those 3's, I also seen him hitting those shoots off the dribble, I saw him pump fake put it on the floor drive and dunk, I was watching him drive and dish, what I was seeing right decisions not force decisions. I wasn't watching raw talent I was watching talent that already existed even though it was from college video tapes.

When was the last time we drafted a players and our only real concern is that we haven't seen him play a pro game? We couldn't say that was our only concern when we drafted Moose, Knight, Andre, KCP, and SJ, and 3 of them were drafted in the top 10.

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Post  Murph Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:39 am

WTF wrote:Honest question for everyone.  What have you seen thus far that this kid does wrong or that is immediately noticeable as a potential flaw?  I might of missed something so please enlighten me.

Wise, my only issue is that I haven't seen Kennard play in the NBA yet. I've learned the hard way not to get too excited about summer league. I can't tell you how many times I've seen players like SJ or Moreland tear up the summer league, only to struggle in the NBA. In the NBA, those young 1st round draft choices don't get the calls, aren't the focus of the offense, don't get starters minutes and they aren't playing against scrubs. Each summer league team only has 2 or 3 potential, but raw, NBA players. We really can't project how a player will perform in the NBA based on what we see in Orlando.

That said, I hope everything you say about Kennard is true.

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Post  WTF Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:38 pm

BallinD wrote:WTF,

I do not see any clear cut weaknesses for Kid Kennard.  Of course he will have trouble with th elite wings, the Derozens, Beals, McCollums and others of that ilk, but so does everybody else.

I see a smooth, athletic, shooter and playmaker with great handles, poise, feel for the game and ability to make the longer, quicker wings look silly with a great change of pace and craftiness around the basket and in the paint.

Can he defend?  Well enough?  He wont be worse than RJAX, Harden, Irving, Curry, but he might develop some top level offensive skills, in that vein.  There is always a tradeoff.  Shooting covers a multitude of sins.

I think he will have some trouble rebounding until he learns his positioning and gets stronger.  I do not see him as a shut-down defender, but those guys are few and far between.

Inexperience seems to be the only issue I see the fundamentals and BB IQ seems to be there so I banking he's quick learner. Rebound isn't that big of a deal at the guard position definitely a bonus if they can but not a must talent is needed nor required.
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Post  WTF Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:32 pm

Oracle wrote:
Wise wrote:Honest question for everyone. What have you seen thus far that this kid does wrong or that is immediately noticeable as a potential flaw? I might of missed something so please enlighten me.
Your eyes do not deceive you, I saw the same thing, and I always have a negative bias for Dukies!

He far exceeded my expectations and looks like he will translate to the NBA just fine after some initial adjustments.

But nothing is guaranteed is all I'm saying, I've been wrong before  lol 

We don't get to see practice, so until I see some real NBA games, I'm penciling him in as special.

BTW, I'm also taking the same stance on Bradley! Again, SVG and his system is the HUGE Wildcard in all of this.

A coach and his system can make or break everything we think we know.

I agree coaching can have an negative impact on every player, sadly we're seeing it now. The most noticeable was how KCP was used by SVG and prior with trying to turn a scorer into a shooter. KCP had the potential to special here had we simply turned him loose fit could be the thing that slows or kills Kennard's growth especially if politics and ego get in the way. I praying SVG sees the light
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Post  BallinD Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:28 pm

WTF,

I do not see any clear cut weaknesses for Kid Kennard. Of course he will have trouble with th elite wings, the Derozens, Beals, McCollums and others of that ilk, but so does everybody else.

I see a smooth, athletic, shooter and playmaker with great handles, poise, feel for the game and ability to make the longer, quicker wings look silly with a great change of pace and craftiness around the basket and in the paint.

Can he defend? Well enough? He wont be worse than RJAX, Harden, Irving, Curry, but he might develop some top level offensive skills, in that vein. There is always a tradeoff. Shooting covers a multitude of sins.

I think he will have some trouble rebounding until he learns his positioning and gets stronger. I do not see him as a shut-down defender, but those guys are few and far between.
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Post  Oracle Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:20 pm

Wise wrote:Honest question for everyone. What have you seen thus far that this kid does wrong or that is immediately noticeable as a potential flaw? I might of missed something so please enlighten me.
Your eyes do not deceive you, I saw the same thing, and I always have a negative bias for Dukies!

He far exceeded my expectations and looks like he will translate to the NBA just fine after some initial adjustments.

But nothing is guaranteed is all I'm saying, I've been wrong before  lol 

We don't get to see practice, so until I see some real NBA games, I'm penciling him in as special.

BTW, I'm also taking the same stance on Bradley! Again, SVG and his system is the HUGE Wildcard in all of this.

A coach and his system can make or break everything we think we know.
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Post  WTF Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:14 pm

My feeling on Kennard has always been gut based so I can't say for certain but if I was a betting man I would say that my guts are correct. Sometimes we can see player and right away see that he's uniquely special.

From all that I've seen of him from video both pre-draft and SL I struggled to find a flaw in his game especially from a fundamental stand point, meaning he understand the game. I'm surprise he was there at #12 for us o pick.

IMO this is one of the best picks I've seen from this team in a very long time. I tried hard to find something wrong with his game but from what I've seen thus far he doesn't look slow to me, he has a damn good form and release on his shot, seem to pass the ball adequately and his handles don't seem suspect to be.

I hear you though will all of this translate to the pro-level? Again my gut say's yes ironically the last time I felt like this was when we drafted another Dukie by the name of Grant Hill and I wasn't sure at all of Hill until his first preseason game.

Honest question for everyone. What have you seen thus far that this kid does wrong or that is immediately noticeable as a potential flaw? I might of missed something so please enlighten me.
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Post  Oracle Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:27 pm

Major props to Gores and Consumers Energy for their massive donations to the Flint cause. It's sad the people responsible aren't paying, IMO.

Heaven must be a lot happier place these days, now that Dick Gregory & Jerry Lewis are cracking them up... RIP fellas!!!
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Post  Oracle Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:20 pm

We're getting a little carried away. While I think Kennard can be special, I don't have a clue if he will get there, that has to be proven.

Bradley has a very good record behind him, but with only one team and under one coach, nobody has a clue how he'll fit in SVG's system.

I agree with Murph that the chances of Bradley being a PG is much higher than Kennard getting there. Remember that we can't believe the hype about him being a good defender, SVG blows smoke, you all should be skeptical that he can even guard the SG position, let alone the PG slot. But it's good to think out of the box, we just shouldn't go too far with it.
DX wrote:
KCP started as a rookie and it's no way in hell that he came in a better player than Luke is now.
This comparison is a bit off, KCP came in to a horrible team, so starting didn't mean as much, KCP would have never started for this team. Also, you seem so sure but you have no evidence that Kennard is a better player. Maybe evidence that he is could be a better shooter, but even that's speculation until we see some real games. You may be right, but you can't be sure.
Don wrote:Murph you must know that Bradley came into the league as a point guard. He converted to a 2 guard and got playing time based on his defensive ability
Are you sure about that? When Bradley came into the league, he was indeed classified as a PG, but only that first year under Rivers, with Rondo as the PG. As soon as Stevens came in, he was made a SG, he didn't convert, he just wasn't any good as a PG. He failed to beat our a bunch a scrub PG's so he remained a SG with PG size.

While I do think he's better now and the conversion could work, needing to convert him says more about our PG situation than his ultimate ability to be a winning team's PG.
Wise wrote:Danny is gambling on a lot of things happening especially with chemistry in hoping it all mesh together. Trading Thomas was just the icing on the cake IMO. The big story for me is that they flipped their roster to this magnitude after a 53 win season.
We all wished Joe would have done something similar, but Ainge is playing his cards so much better. Remember that the lions share of that turnover is in scrubs. They learned from Cleveland and GS that they needed size to contend with the big boys, Boston was just too small, so Bradley & Thomas the two smallest of the core needed to go.

These are calculated moves, Boston will be either the 2nd or 3rd best team in the east, but best positioned to be top dog when LeBron leaves. You're right about chemistry issues, which may bother them most of this season, but they'll get it right. As a move to be better this coming season, it's a slight step back, but the following season will be different.

Additional things I didn't think about with this trade. Irving is 25, Isiah is 28, not a big difference, but Irving fits a sweeter window for them. Also, Thomas was injured and may miss the start of the season with some wondering if he'll be as explosive as he once was(Like Reggie?).
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Post  Sparma Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:15 pm

Agreed, WTF, about the importance of not quickly disqualifying. As coach, it's important to focus on what your player CAN do (eg, hey, that Bradley can really rebound) as opposed to what he can't do. That said, it's important to take everything in account, including size. For instance, I'm with Phil Jackson in liking big PGs. But you work with what you have, always hoping to upgrade where possible.

Also, I really like Murph's Bradley as PG, Kennard as SG, idea. Doubt SVG will go that way though; he's going to give Reggie every opportunity to succeed/ fail, and maybe you can't blame him. If he doesn't make quick adjustments if things aren't working though, we're likely to see him go down with that boat.


WTF wrote:Come on people just think about our 2 Championship Backcourts here.  I don't understand why we would be so quick to disqualify on things like SIZE, HANDLES, and SPEED.   Zeke was only 6"1, but his heart and will made him 10 feet tall,  CB was 6"3 and slow as tree sap so speed doesn't matter,  Joe was 6"3 really wasn't that quick just smart at defending the likes of MJ and other elite SG his entire career, Rip 6"7 tall lanky quick energetic had no handles at all so I just don't understand all the disqualifications about this things.

There's something special about Kennard
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Post  WTF Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:32 pm

Come on people just think about our 2 Championship Backcourts here. I don't understand why we would be so quick to disqualify on things like SIZE, HANDLES, and SPEED. Zeke was only 6"1, but his heart and will made him 10 feet tall, CB was 6"3 and slow as tree sap so speed doesn't matter, Joe was 6"3 really wasn't that quick just smart at defending the likes of MJ and other elite SG his entire career, Rip 6"7 tall lanky quick energetic had no handles at all so I just don't understand all the disqualifications about this things.

There's something special about Kennard
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Post  WTF Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:56 pm

Either case both these players need to be on the court starting. There's no way you keep Kennard from major PT unless he's a complete flop and I just don't see it.

I would be reluctant to move Bradley back to PG only because I don't think he's is or was a pass first PG and the last thing we need is another PG looking for 20 shots a game. We might as well keep Jackson in place if that's the case and IMO Kennard would a more sensible choice to run the offense I would keep Bradley at the SG.
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Post  WTF Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:48 pm

ESPN wrote:Boston now has just four players on its roster from last season's team that won an East-best 53 games. That's 11 players gone from a roster that advanced to the Eastern Conference finals before bowing to the Cavaliers in five games.

This what I'm talking about, this the **** I wanted Joe to do but maybe not to this extent but close. This is something that I still would like to see from the Pistons organization.

Be bold, take risk at getting better, don't be afraid to gamble. Not saying Boston made all the right moves but damn what balls to flip a roster like that after a 53 win season. This was beyond a tweak here and a tweak there this was an over-haul of an entire roster.

Danny is gambling on a lot of things happening especially with chemistry in hoping it all mesh together. Trading Thomas was just the icing on the cake IMO. The big story for me is that they flipped their roster to this magnitude after a 53 win season.

This could blowup in Danny face, but if it works it could land him genius status. The jury is still out but IMO I think Danny will find himself back in rebuilding mode or worse unemployed after next season. Big respect for having the balls Danny.

The other question or another question is Kyrie's feelings on this trade considering the huge turnover on this roster. Is this where he really want to be?
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Post  deusXango Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:15 pm

Murph wrote:I think SVG and the Pistons are going to have a much easier time converting Bradley to PG, than Kennard.  Kennard is a great shooter and seems to have a high BB IQ, but is he quick enough and will his handles ever be good enough to play the point?  I have my doubts.  

Meanwhile Bradley is just as smart or smarter than Kennard, much quicker with much better handles and has much more experience as a PG already.

In fact, if Bradley can convert to being an effective PG, I'd say sign him in the off season for whatever it takes, and then start him at the point next year, along side Kennard at SG.
Great insight Murph...the Bradley/Kennard backcourt should be the starting backcourt THIS year! KCP started as a rookie and it's no way in hell that he came in a better player than Luke is now. The I.Q., the nifty ball handling, the consistent outside shooting, he was let go working toward those skills Kennard already has and there's still room for Kennard to grow as a pro! Ish Smith outperformed Reggie Jackson for the first 21 games last season, leading a team he was totally unfamiliar with and he's not a star; what've we got to loose starting Bradley at PG?! I haven't forgotten how badly we played LAST year under Jacksons leadership, damn two years ago and the possible return to that form, he's playing with a revamped rotation and his inability to read the floor coupled with his unwillingness to pass the ball to the open man, makes for a bench player or trade bait!

Let's stop talking about the Kyrie Irving trade to Detroit and why it didn't happen (we didn't need him), but why didn't the Ricky Rubio trade to Detroit happen?
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Post  cool breeze Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:39 am

Murph wrote:I think SVG and the Pistons are going to have a much easier time converting Bradley to PG, than Kennard.  Kennard is a great shooter and seems to have a high BB IQ, but is he quick enough and will his handles ever be good enough to play the point?  I have my doubts.  

Meanwhile Bradley is just as smart or smarter than Kennard, much quicker with much better handles and has much more experience as a PG already.

In fact, if Bradley can convert to being an effective PG, I'd say sign him in the off season for whatever it takes, and then start him at the point next year, along side Kennard at SG.

Murph you must know that Bradley came into the league as a point guard. He converted to a 2 guard and got playing time based on his defensive ability. That was then and this is now meaning that Bradley should be used at the point guard position if the coach has any brains at all. If Reggie returns to his previous form, then it might be smart to trade him before the deadline. Pistons drop Reggie's salary and give Bradley whatever it takes. I think that in today's game teams would have the best success if both guards share the point guard role. If Kennard can shoot it from distance, he would be a good candidate to be a player like Bradley who can easily bring the ball up court, see quickly how to attack the defense, and make the right play to give the offense the best opportunity to score. But will SVG change the offense or come right back with his dysfunctional ball dominate point guard style featuring the center who is not a natural offensive weapon? If he decides to waste a talent like Bradley to base everything on the point guard-center pick and roll play which is very limited because of Drummond's lack of ability to shoot a 6 foot jump shot along with Reggie's inability to see both sides of the floor, he is an idiot indeed. I think what Detroit is lacking is a talented offensive assistant coach. The head coach needs to step aside and allow a specialist coach to create an offense that best fits the players. Last season SVG showed that he didn't have the talent to do this himself and had no ability to change the system even though it was completely dysfunctional.

There is no doubt that the Pistons will flounder around again if the offensive system depends on Reggie and Ish creating everything in the half court offense. Yet I have not heard a word that SVG is working on anything new. He sure hasn't changed anything regarding who he has employed as his assistant coaches. The Pistons need sharper more creative younger coaches to get this new team working properly.

Regarding Irving joining Boston this makes them so damn good with Hayward also on board it is silly. If they can avoid injuries, it will be fun to see another team in the finals for the Eastern conference. Boston's big men would be my only concern as a weakness. Why didn't they make a trade for Drummond? That would have been so sweet to move that big salary off the board. But if the Pistons can move Jackson this year, that would also be sweet unless Reggie changes and becomes a better defender. And he is capable of becoming a better defender just like AD. It is just that they don't give a crap about defense so they will always be on the losing team. And we have to watch it happen until they leave.

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Stevens

Post  Murph Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:43 am

I agree that the Cavs made a remarkably good trade, under the circumstances. Thomas, although ridiculously short, is a serviceable PG, especially off the bench. I've always liked Crowder and his energy and defense (are you paying attention SJ?). And the Nets 1st round pick should be money.


That said, if Stevens can turn a circus act like Thomas into a top NBA PG, a leading scorer and a winner...imagine what Stevens can do with Irving? I expect Stevens to make Irving into a great NBA PG.

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Post  Murph Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:33 am

I think SVG and the Pistons are going to have a much easier time converting Bradley to PG, than Kennard.  Kennard is a great shooter and seems to have a high BB IQ, but is he quick enough and will his handles ever be good enough to play the point?  I have my doubts.  

Meanwhile Bradley is just as smart or smarter than Kennard, much quicker with much better handles and has much more experience as a PG already.

In fact, if Bradley can convert to being an effective PG, I'd say sign him in the off season for whatever it takes, and then start him at the point next year, along side Kennard at SG.


Last edited by Murph on Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:05 am; edited 3 times in total

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FORUM - Page 12 Empty Cavs win this one by a nose!!!

Post  Oracle Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:00 am

Ainge finally made a somewhat bone headed move, even though facing the Cavs taught him a lesson about how far small ball can take you. We're going small while the best teams in the league get bigger(while remaining fast)... SVG is a bit out of touch.

He got two things right, getting bigger and younger, but this move along with dealing Bradley to us, weakens Boston a bit early, although they should ultimately be the best team in the east with their key stars in their mid 20's.

They rightly thought Bradley was too small and was injured whenever they really needed him, just wait for the annual Irving injuries to crop up!

His injuries get overlooked because the rest of the team was so strong nobody missed his arse, but now, the Celtics will be SOL when he craps out.

Meanwhile, the Cavs will have some initial integration problems early, but they can easily cover Isiah on defense, and I think they're ultimately a better team in the 4th quarter, and here's why.

Irving may be better hitting that deep 3 in the 4th, but I'll take the sure 2 as Isiah easily gets to the rim in traffic.

We'll see how much better Isiah gets with tons of firepower around him, he'll likely score less, but that's alright.

Of course the devil is in the details, but I give this one to the Cavs, but here's the kicker...

While there is a winner in this deal, that's just the deal!

The bottom line is that BOTH teams got better, Boston loses because they failed to get better than the Cavs! Isiah is like Bradley, most likely a 1 year rental because nobody wants to pay small players a lot of money on a long term contract.

This is high drama and fun stuff...
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Post  WTF Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:40 pm

BallinD wrote:Cavs and Boston did the trade and the winner is???

Wait and see???

I think Boston gave up a lot for two fairly equivalent offensive talents, Kyrie and IT, neither of which plays a lot of defense.  Jae Crowder can really help the Cavs defend vs GS and that first round pick will hurt too.  I will say that Cleveland won the trade if what is on ESPN holds true.

BTW,  Kennard is the best shooter in his class according to peers, and I believe one of the better playmakers as well.



I'm thinking the Cavs here both short and long term. Think about the Kyrie lead Cavs before Lebron return you're basically looking at the same results as before.

Secondly Kyrie is looking to shine alone, he wants the same stature as Lebron, and perhaps some others sadly he's on his way to being the Lone Ranger and that's not good. Thomas will carry the Cavs after Bron leaves and who know what that pick will net them next draft.
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