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Don: Very good post

Post  Oracle on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:35 pm

cool breeze wrote:I recall reading tweets from Tolliver last season as he was fully engaged with what was going on in Piston land even though he played for another team. This was a great pick up by SVG. There is no doubt that he wants to live in the Detroit area and play for the Pistons. His impact called "the Tolliver effect" was missed last season where the team chemistry went into the toilet because of lack of leadership. I saw that as well, Tolliver WANTS to be here and be a Piston, and you can't buy that! IMO, that makes a hell of a big difference in leadership, which you accurately note was missing last year.

Tolliver comments on AD's new attitude and the progress of Stanley Johnson. If this new dedication and attention to detail involving AD is true and translates to him providing more positive energy and intelligence on the court, everyone will be grateful. The key thing to watch is not how he starts the season but how he produces starting in December through March. If he can become more consistent in those critical months, this team will be fun to watch. I'm more able to believe that about Stanley than Drummond, but hope springs eternal. He fooled us two seasons ago with the strong start before turning into a turd later in the season. However, losing weight and draining the boogers may produce a new player.

Tolliver also seems to predict a huge change coming from Johnson. Once Johnson looks at himself as one of the team leaders, he will be something special. That is the way it has always been for Stanley in high school around  towards the end of this freshman season, Johnson looked at himself instead of the older guys to get his team the championship. Johnson should not look to acquire stats this year. Everyone will expect his scoring to greatly improve. But Johnson is known for providing the dirty work necessary for a team to be successful. He needs to become a better defensive rebounder, improve to elite status on defense, set hard legal screens and get tons of deflections in the passing lanes. Even if Johnson does those critical things there will be fans who will not watch the games but ponder over the stats and then evaluate Johnson as a failure because he is not scoring 20 points game. Johnson has to take the attitude that he could care less what the fans think. He needs to give the team what they most need. If he and infect AD with this same attitude, the sky is the limit for this Piston team.

The weak area of this team is still at point guard unless Bradley plays that position for at least 10 minutes a game. The other weak area is back up center with everyone penciling in Boban even before training camp begins. For Detroit to be a really successful team Moreland, Ellenson and even Leuer need to compete hard for playing time at the center position. Which player can be most effective at the center position in crunch time if AD still is unable to get his free throw percentage up to 50% or better? Boban might be able to play some of those minutes against a small amount of NBA teams. Boban's stamina is extremely low. He will need to be well rested for the last 5 minutes of the games. Somebody else must fill some of those backup minutes. I'm still hopeful about Boban, but unfortunately I can now see the weaknesses that allowed Pop to let him go. You summed this up in a recent post, but it all goes back to how he's used. I don't know how Moreland will work out, but I do know he's a hard worker and has a good motor, so it's possible he could just out work Boban for some of those minutes.

Perhaps the strongest combination this season might be Bradley and Johnson. Both are capable help defenders. working together to cover up defects in their teammates on defense could mean more easy wins this season. And I expect Tobias Harris to come in and dominate more on the offensive end and also become a solid defender. Harris has dedicated himself all summer long to conditioning and diet as well as working on the mental side of basketball. We have to hope the head coach plays a style that is most effective for the players he has acquired rather than making them fit into a style they are not suited to play. This is going to be very interesting. Today I am hopeful that we will see a new kind of team that will make Detroit proud. I think Stanley & Bradley will be fun to watch, and I hope now that Morris & KCP are gone, that Harris steps up to the big moments like they did. He's capable physically, I just wonder if that's in his personality.
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Encouraging news for Piston fans from Tolliver today

Post  cool breeze on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:06 pm

I recall reading tweets from Tolliver last season as he was fully engaged with what was going on in Piston land even though he played for another team. This was a great pick up by SVG. There is no doubt that he wants to live in the Detroit area and play for the Pistons. His impact called "the Tolliver effect" was missed last season where the team chemistry went into the toilet because of lack of leadership.

Tolliver comments on AD's new attitude and the progress of Stanley Johnson. If this new dedication and attention to detail involving AD is true and translates to him providing more positive energy and intelligence on the court, everyone will be grateful. The key thing to watch is not how he starts the season but how he produces starting in December through March. If he can become more consistent in those critical months, this team will be fun to watch.

Tolliver also seems to predict a huge change coming from Johnson. Once Johnson looks at himself as one of the team leaders, he will be something special. That is the way it has always been for Stanley in high school around towards the end of this freshman season, Johnson looked at himself instead of the older guys to get his team the championship. Johnson should not look to acquire stats this year. Everyone will expect his scoring to greatly improve. But Johnson is known for providing the dirty work necessary for a team to be successful. He needs to become a better defensive rebounder, improve to elite status on defense, set hard legal screens and get tons of deflections in the passing lanes. Even if Johnson does those critical things there will be fans who will not watch the games but ponder over the stats and then evaluate Johnson as a failure because he is not scoring 20 points game. Johnson has to take the attitude that he could care less what the fans think. He needs to give the team what they most need. If he and infect AD with this same attitude, the sky is the limit for this Piston team.

The weak area of this team is still at point guard unless Bradley plays that position for at least 10 minutes a game. The other weak area is back up center with everyone penciling in Boban even before training camp begins. For Detroit to be a really successful team Moreland, Ellenson and even Leuer need to compete hard for playing time at the center position. Which player can be most effective at the center position in crunch time if AD still is unable to get his free throw percentage up to 50% or better? Boban might be able to play some of those minutes against a small amount of NBA teams. Boban's stamina is extremely low. He will need to be well rested for the last 5 minutes of the games. Somebody else must fill some of those backup minutes.

Perhaps the strongest combination this season might be Bradley and Johnson. Both are capable help defenders. working together to cover up defects in their teammates on defense could mean more easy wins this season. And I expect Tobias Harris to come in and dominate more on the offensive end and also become a solid defender. Harris has dedicated himself all summer long to conditioning and diet as well as working on the mental side of basketball. We have to hope the head coach plays a style that is most effective for the players he has acquired rather than making them fit into a style they are not suited to play. This is going to be very interesting. Today I am hopeful that we will see a new kind of team that will make Detroit proud.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:37 pm

WTF wrote:Lions do look GOOD!!!  

First 5 games are always up for grabs I just hope we can go 5-0 without injuries.   After that teams start showing who they really are even steal I think we're 10 or 11 win team this year even without an above average run game. 

Stafford has improved quite a bit the pass 3 seasons I think he deserves the 135 million so I'll make prediction.... MVP and 2 playoff wins this season.

Front office is finally making sound decisions. Get the injured players back on Detroit's offensive line and the running game and quarterback protection should get much better. Lions defense is looking much smarter, quicker and making more big plays. Great start and if this team can get better and avoid extensive injuries Detroit might be a dangerous team this season. How about that field goal at the end of the first half??? Great job Lions!

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Primetime Win

Post  WTF on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:00 am

Lions do look GOOD!!!  

First 5 games are always up for grabs I just hope we can go 5-0 without injuries.   After that teams start showing who they really are even steal I think we're 10 or 11 win team this year even without an above average run game. 

Stafford has improved quite a bit the pass 3 seasons I think he deserves the 135 million so I'll make prediction.... MVP and 2 playoff wins this season.
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Lions look a real team!

Post  Oracle on Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:16 am

Ansah is a man among boys, he looked great tonight, damn near unstoppable at times. Slay made some great plays, and the defense shut down the Giants run game!

Stafford had some very good scrambles, and the offense looked great, although the running was just ok!

Still a great showing on the road... these guys may be for real!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:59 pm

Oracle wrote:He was useless in the championship on both ends of the floor. In this highlight clip, it shows how to easily beat him!

His problem is that he can't move laterally, and guards challenge him and score easily.


What was going on with the two heavy weights, SVG and his obese GM the previous summer when they put their heads together, looked at the same crystal ball and decided to bid against themselves to get Smith, Leuer and Boban? When this happened I tried to find one other team that was trying to sign any of the three players. How did they establish their value?

I could not find any information relating to any actual negotiations that took place relating to Jon Leuer. Our two genius executives must have bit on the opening round. I would like my player to get $10 million. I know he sat the bench most of the season with the Suns. They like Dudley and other power forwards coming off the bench. But my guy Leuer was the 4th best player on Wisconsin in his last year of college. Yes it is true that his upper body is very weak and he gets pushed around a lot in the paint and that is why the Suns gave up on him but Jon is working hard in the weight room so I think he should get $10 mil and by God he will for sure hit a lot of 3 ball shots in that 4 out 1 in offense you run so well. Well thinks Mr agent for those comments I guess we will agree to your demands. Oracle I read your response to dX relating to Leuer. How could you try to compare Johnson and Leuer and then say to the effect that Leuer is more highly thought of around the league? Are you kidding? My biggest disappointment with Leuer was his lack of ability to defend power forwards. He and Andre together were incredibly bad. towards the end of the season every power forward Leuer played against kicked his ass. SVG kept putting him out there anyway. Meanwhile Johnson did have some good moments passing the ball, screening for other players and defending top tier guards better in my opinion than Pope. The year before that he played strong defense against Labron in the playoffs. But you think Leuer has the better reputation. I believe that SVG has done a horrible job coaching Johnson. Johnson was a poor fit with SVG's offensive system where you just stand beyond the 3 point line on the baseline if you play the 2 guard position. Leuer was a total disaster for the entire last half of the season much like AD. Yet the stories keep coming about the question as to if Leuer should start. The real question is should he be in the rotation taking up minutes from Ellenson or Harris. Insanity has returned as if last season never happened. And saying SVG needs to play him so he can trade him is sending a message that SVG doesn't do the right thing as a coach. This is the problem of having the duel role with the Pistons. Leuer, AD, and Jackson are all problem players other teams do not want for anything near the amount of their current contracts. It won't matter if their minutes are reduced or not. It will mean something if SVG cares at all about team chemistry. You do the wrong thing and players get turned of and nobody should blame them.

With Smith being a free agent, the same thing was true. I could not find any active team that was in pursuit of Ish Smith. The underrated TJ McConnell who was not drafted won the heart of Philly's fans and coach in Smith's last season with that team. Philly wanted TJ and they signed him for next to nothing knowing he was the superior player who is a high basketball IQ pass first team orientated point guard who plays hard on both ends of the floor. Everyone loves playing with TJ. He gets them the ball and the young developing players need to touch the ball. SVG doesn't like that idea. Is Smith a horrible player? No he was our best point guard last season. But he was not worth the money he got from the Pistons. Smith cannot guard very many rotation point guards in the NBA. That was a known weakness before SVG and Mr. B. offered him his contract. Knowing how bad Reggie is on the defensive end and his injury status, there were other point guards who were better options. What is worse is the fact that SVG as coach decided that he wanted Ish to play the same way Reggie plays because of course he wanted a point guard who would penetrate ( or should I say over penetrate ) and try to find AD. That was the Pistons offense which was suicide. Was Ish known to be a high percentage shooter before Detroit signed him? He ended up shooting a lot and at times never bothered to pass the ball to Drummond which is a cardinal sin as far as the Piston coaching staff is concerned. Some fans think Ish Smith was a great pickup and when compared to Reggie Jackson's inept play that might be why. but they forgot what happened when the Pistons actually played a strong team with tier 1 caliber talent at both guard positions. The amount of the contract offer is still a mystery to many GMs around the league much like the Leuer situation.

Finally the most puzzling free agent signing of all has to be Boban. He was a guy Pop liked to throw out on the floor in mop up time. He has a freaky body and fans get excited. All the Spurs fans loved Boban. But the Spurs had a high quality team and they won a lot of games. Boban got in when the opposing team had thrown in the towel and were using their scrub players against Boban. Boban runs the court as slow as Charlie V did. He is just so slow with very little ability to move laterally as you pointed out. Moreland and Ellenson have to somehow play their asses off if the coach will even consider playing them. SVG will be the corrupt coach again most likely and play the contracts so he can try to trade the contracts. Is he nuts. That will not work. Knowing how bad AD is on defense with the guy coming off the bench Boban. Or SVG's 3rd choice Leuer playing the center position who is a player that cannot guard power forwards. That's real smart and I have read where SVG has offered this option. I am starting to believe that this Piston organization has lost all credibility. Good Piston players most likely want to be traded. Opponents will start laughing at SVG along with all opposing announcers. So that might be fun if you subscribe to PASS. Why so much money for Boban SVG? Provide your reasoning please. What in hell happened here with Mr. B. and SVG? Were they drunk? Did they believe that the sky is the limit and they could spend as much money as they wanted because they had created a team that got the 8th spot in the weak Eastern conference. Didn't the owner do any homework to keep tabs on Mr. B. and SVG? They need to be watched closely. Ask this question. Would Zeke, Laimbeer, Billups or any other smart former Piston player sign the three players Mr. B and SVG decided to bet the farm on? And I already know the answer to the question relating to the contract SVG and Mr. B offered AD that summer. Were SVG and Mr. B. consulting with the spirit of Pee Wee Herman two summers ago?Pee Wee never watched much basketball. Maybe that was it. The only people who should be happy with those three signings should be the players themselves and their agents. The decision making skills and negotiating skills of SVG and Mr. B. on those three deals are among the dumbest that I can remember relating to the Pistons. Of course Joe Dumars gets very low grades when he bid against himself with that trade deal with the Bucks involving Knight-Middleton for Jennings when no team in either conference wanted Brandon Jennings knowing that nobody on that Bucks team wanted to play with Jennings in those times when Jennings played much like Reggie Jackson.Somehow in the middle of next winter, I will be longing for the PGA Fed X cup race to begin. I like watching women's golf better than the Pistons based on last season with the coach worrying about his players being properly engaged as he features his center as the key offensive threat with dribble happy low basketball IQ point guards roaming the hardwood looking for their shot and of course AD who dances and raps better than most NBA players.


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You know how I am

Post  deusXango on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:27 pm

Oracle wrote:Sometimes, the truth and the other side gets in the way... your instinct is right, but, IMO, you may be taking this a bit far.
deusXango wrote:Don, this is the type of written observation that I'd love to see coming from at least one local sports media outlet, be it written, televised, or on air...also, this type of undeserved hero worshipping promotes acceptance of mediocrity. Leuer was signed to be a "force" off the bench! Any other spin, for any reason, on a team with the unexplored resources we have is ridiculous, not to mention the middling record under the current president/coach. The statement made by SVG that "in my eyes Jon Leuer is a starter" makes this fan realize that SVG's vision is distorted. - Totally agree, but SVG needs to do this if he's going to get anything back in trade. He used this tactic with Baynes with great success! He got Baynes thinking that since he's starting material, he could go out and get this big contract, and it made him NOT pick up his option here so that we could move on. Bottom line, it's a small price to pay if it works and Leuer gets traded for something good.If a player is signed for an undetermined overpayment, how/why expect to trade for equal value? Baynes was in his last year, how many years will we be "stuck" with Leuer?

After reading this article for the 2nd time, I read something that escaped my notice initially....Leuer is not only inferior to Johnson, but he's not, IMHO, in the top 3 to be considered for a starting forward role this year(Reality check, Leuer and Stanley were about equally bad last year, and Leuer historically is better).Yes, both stunk up the season, but Johnson was playing in his second season; how long has Leuer been in the NBA? So much for history...biased! Harris as a perimeter scorer is fine, but who's paired with Drummond is what's going to determine how strong the Pistons will be defensively and defense is the drum SVG consistently beats...DEFENSE!!! All Leuer brings to the table as a PF is height and a big ass contract; Tolliver, all though a reliable shooter, is old, a short term player, and can't contain todays PF's; Ellenson is not cared for by SVG and a small cadre of vocal fans, for a starter...the misgivings are unjustified based on actual competition experience. This brings me into naysayers country; Eric Moreland. He's been typecast as a center, based on God only knows why(uggh, well, he's never played another position, might be a reason, just saying) There's no center or PF in the new NBA, just big men, remember? he's so limited, but he's young, strong, has the length, and a strong rim protector...paired with Drummond we've got 2 of the most athletic, fleet footed, defensively balanced big men tandems in the NBA. Rebounding, rim protection, and P & R defense like we've not had since when? Wallace X2! I'm not comparing them to "Big Ben" and "Sheed," that'd be blasphemy!
The naysayers will sarcastically jump to say "they'd be the worst starting FT shooting big men in the NBA(Then the naysayers would be 100% right)," without open-mindedly considering, what team will sacrifice their big men for the sole purpose of exploiting Drummond and Moreland's inability to make FT's for a high percentage(Gee, so you're saying that scrub guards can't foul our big men, or didn't you consider that the rules allow for that). True, but if you start scrub guards, our guards will use them to the tune of a 10-20 point lead before their coach can get them off the floor. The naysayers will ignore the fact that Moreland hasn't got a sexy name (just for being around the NBA), like Ben Wallace didn't before being given a chance, or is a big contract player (contracts don't win games, particularly contracts that weren't earned)...the time to come out of  the box is now, because we don't have a star PF and Leuer(No, Leuer isn't a star, but he looks like one next to Moreland. Not saying we couldn't try this, but it's a real hokey idea long term, just a gimmick) Hokey? Gimmick? I'd love to actually see those two go at it in scrimmages. is how close we are or far away we are to having that defensive partner to play the paint with Drummond. I hope the resentment for the size of his contract doesn't cloud the thinking of Pistons supporters.
As usual, you make great sense Oracle, but we tend to look at things from different directions. Hopefully the middle ground will result in something for both of us to cheer about.
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Arnie, oh how I miss you

Post  deusXango on Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:51 pm

Oracle wrote:The general health of the team is a lot worse than it used to be?
Oh, hell yeah! It's obviously worse after years of good health and testimonies from players of how Arnie resurrected their careers.
I think SVG looked at Arnie and his concoctions as some sort of voodoo pseudo science and got rid of him, just like he thought Sheed was just a pot smoking big mouth(ok, 1 out of 2 is close lol )
He reminds me of another power mad clown who fixes sh!t that ain't broken, i.e. building walls between people, before building bridges of diplomacy. Who were Arnie and Sheed replaced with and what are their credentials?
But Arnie's stuff worked wonders, and now we have our gimp squad that has injuries regularly. Hell at the rate we lose guards, playing here should qualify as hazardous duty  lol lol lol Playing on a SVG led squad merits hazardous duty considerations.
Right on Oracle, our players need to be on the floor and at their best. rockon
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Boban sucked hard...

Post  Oracle on Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:34 pm

He was useless in the championship on both ends of the floor. In this highlight clip, it shows how to easily beat him!

His problem is that he can't move laterally, and guards challenge him and score easily.

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Arnie

Post  WTF on Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:34 pm

Oracle wrote:The general health of the team is a lot worse than it used to be?

I think SVG looked at Arnie and his concoctions as some sort of voodoo pseudo science and got rid of him, just like he thought Sheed was just a pot smoking big mouth(ok, 1 out of 2 is close lol

But Arnie's stuff worked wonders, and now we have our gimp squad that has injuries regularly. Hell at the rate we lose guards, playing here should qualify as hazardous duty  lol lol lol

Arnie did wonders on Dice when it look like his career was all but done and lets not forget the season he manage to squeeze out of Chris Webber.
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Rufus?

Post  Murph on Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:08 pm

merc wrote:Remember when hit that half court shot on one leg? Even Lee357 had to bow to his superior range.

My recollection was that Rufus had two legs, but only one eye. Although, I do seem to remember that one leg was shorter than the other.

Rufus was a warrior though. He never let his physical shortcoming get in the way of his will to win. lol!
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Anyone else notice that since Arnie got CANNED...

Post  Oracle on Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:01 pm

The general health of the team is a lot worse than it used to be?

I think SVG looked at Arnie and his concoctions as some sort of voodoo pseudo science and got rid of him, just like he thought Sheed was just a pot smoking big mouth(ok, 1 out of 2 is close lol

But Arnie's stuff worked wonders, and now we have our gimp squad that has injuries regularly. Hell at the rate we lose guards, playing here should qualify as hazardous duty  lol lol lol
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DX, I love your passion, but...

Post  Oracle on Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:53 pm

Sometimes, the truth and the other side gets in the way... your instinct is right, but, IMO, you may be taking this a bit far.
deusXango wrote:Don, this is the type of written observation that I'd love to see coming from at least one local sports media outlet, be it written, televised, or on air...also, this type of undeserved hero worshipping promotes acceptance of mediocrity. Leuer was signed to be a "force" off the bench! Any other spin, for any reason, on a team with the unexplored resources we have is ridiculous, not to mention the middling record under the current president/coach. The statement made by SVG that "in my eyes Jon Leuer is a starter" makes this fan realize that SVG's vision is distorted. - Totally agree, but SVG needs to do this if he's going to get anything back in trade. He used this tactic with Baynes with great success! He got Baynes thinking that since he's starting material, he could go out and get this big contract, and it made him NOT pick up his option here so that we could move on. Bottom line, it's a small price to pay if it works and Leuer gets traded for something good.

After reading this article for the 2nd time, I read something that escaped my notice initially....Leuer is not only inferior to Johnson, but he's not, IMHO, in the top 3 to be considered for a starting forward role this year(Reality check, Leuer and Stanley were about equally bad last year, and Leuer historically is better). Harris as a perimeter scorer is fine, but who's paired with Drummond is what's going to determine how strong the Pistons will be defensively and defense is the drum SVG consistently beats...DEFENSE!!! All Leuer brings to the table as a PF is height and a big ass contract; Tolliver, all though a reliable shooter, is old, a short term player, and can't contain todays PF's; Ellenson is not cared for by SVG and a small cadre of vocal fans, for a starter...the misgivings are unjustified based on actual competition experience. This brings me into naysayers country; Eric Moreland. He's been typecast as a center, based on God only knows why(uggh, well, he's never played another position, might be a reason, just saying) he's so limited, but he's young, strong, has the length, and a strong rim protector...paired with Drummond we've got 2 of the most athletic, fleet footed, defensively balanced big men tandems in the NBA. Rebounding, rim protection, and P & R defense like we've not had since when? Wallace X2! I'm not comparing them to "Big Ben" and "Sheed," that'd be blasphemy!
The naysayers will sarcastically jump to say "they'd be the worst starting FT shooting big men in the NBA(Then the naysayers would be 100% right)," without open-mindedly considering, what team will sacrifice their big men for the sole purpose of exploiting Drummond and Moreland's inability to make FT's for a high percentage(Gee, so you're saying that scrub guards can't foul our big men, or didn't you consider that the rules allow for that). The naysayers will ignore the fact that Moreland hasn't got a sexy name (just for being around the NBA), like Ben Wallace didn't before being given a chance, or is a big contract player (contracts don't win games, particularly contracts that weren't earned)...the time to come out of  the box is now, because we don't have a star PF and Leuer(No, Leuer isn't a star, but he looks like one next to Moreland. Not saying we couldn't try this, but it's a real hokey idea long term, just a gimmick) is how close we are or far away we are to having that defensive partner to play the paint with Drummond. I hope the resentment for the size of his contract doesn't cloud the thinking of Pistons supporters.
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Politics and sh!t talking is our adminstrations way

Post  deusXango on Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:19 pm

cool breeze wrote:It can't be SVG and his propaganda spin team at work can it? No that would never happen. What can the Pistons do with a player who makes more than $10 Million a year who couldn't guard any power forward in the league last season and fizzled out shooting the 3 ball that SVG loves from his power forwards? How can Piston management get fans on board with the idea that once again Jon Leuer will be a critical piece of SVG's dysfunctional hand picked team? Forget how Arron Gordon and Orlando targeted Leuer in that last game of the season as Gordon scored at will, got offensive rebounds over and around him at will all the while Leuer offered nothing on the offensive end of the floor. SVG wants everyone to forget that game and almost every game after the half way point of last season. Leuer was right there with the franchise player AD in stinking up the Palace on home games. AD and Leuer playing together meant disaster for the Pistons because neither can play average NBA defense. Leuer does try harder to concentrate but is just not quick enough or strong enough to defend or secure critical defensive rebounds. But who cares about the details. SVG has to play Leuer and he has to play AD significant minutes again. It will not make any difference as to how Ellenson plays in training camp. SVG must feature Leuer so he can build up his trade value and prove that SVG was not a fool to have bid against himself with that bogus contract offer when nobody else was interested. Did the Suns want Leuer? NO SVG they had him at the end of the bench. Nothing against Leuer as a person. Good for him to score such a nice contract from our foolish Piston management team. This is one SVG and the way he runs the Piston's program. He will not do the right thing. He will play contracts. So get used to a lot of Reggie, AD, and Leuer.

How many more articles will it take for Piston fans to start getting excited about seeing the same players who stunk it up for the Pistons last season? Piston management thinks the propaganda will work. But what a turn off for people who want to watch real basketball.
Don, this is the type of written observation that I'd love to see coming from at least one local sports media outlet, be it written, televised, or on air...also, this type of undeserved hero worshipping promotes acceptance of mediocrity. Leuer was signed to be a "force" off the bench! Any other spin, for any reason, on a team with the unexplored resources we have is ridiculous, not to mention the middling record under the current president/coach. The statement made by SVG that "in my eyes Jon Leuer is a starter" makes this fan realize that SVG's vision is distorted.

After reading this article for the 2nd time, I read something that escaped my notice initially....Leuer is not only inferior to Johnson, but he's not, IMHO, in the top 3 to be considered for a starting forward role this year. Harris as a perimeter scorer is fine, but who's paired with Drummond is what's going to determine how strong the Pistons will be defensively and defense is the drum SVG consistently beats...DEFENSE!!! All Leuer brings to the table as a PF is height and a big ass contract; Tolliver, all though a reliable shooter, is old, a short term player, and can't contain todays PF's; Ellenson is not cared for by SVG and a small cadre of vocal fans, for a starter...the misgivings are unjustified based on actual competition experience. This brings me into naysayers country; Eric Moreland. He's been typecast as a center, based on God only knows why he's so limited, but he's young, strong, has the length, and a strong rim protector...paired with Drummond we've got 2 of the most athletic, fleet footed, defensively balanced big men tandems in the NBA. Rebounding, rim protection, and P & R defense like we've not had since when? Wallace X2! I'm not comparing them to "Big Ben" and "Sheed," that'd be blasphemy!
The naysayers will sarcastically jump to say "they'd be the worst starting FT shooting big men in the NBA," without open-mindedly considering, what team will sacrifice their big men for the sole purpose of exploiting Drummond and Moreland's inability to make FT's for a high percentage. The naysayers will ignore the fact that Moreland hasn't got a sexy name (just for being around the NBA), like Ben Wallace didn't before being given a chance, or is a big contract player (contracts don't win games, particularly contracts that weren't earned)...the time to come out of  the box is now, because we don't have a star PF and Leuer is how close we are or far away we are to having that defensive partner to play the paint with Drummond. I hope the resentment for the size of his contract doesn't cloud the thinking of Pistons supporters.
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Notice here is an article planted at least twice a week now about the idea of starting Jon Leuer. Who is doing that?

Post  cool breeze on Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:48 am

It can't be SVG and his propaganda spin team at work can it? No that would never happen. What can the Pistons do with a player who makes more than $10 Million a year who couldn't guard any power forward in the league last season and fizzled out shooting the 3 ball that SVG loves from his power forwards? How can Piston management get fans on board with the idea that once again Jon Leuer will be a critical piece of SVG's dysfunctional hand picked team? Forget how Arron Gordon and Orlando targeted Leuer in that last game of the season as Gordon scored at will, got offensive rebounds over and around him at will all the while Leuer offered nothing on the offensive end of the floor. SVG wants everyone to forget that game and almost every game after the half way point of last season. Leuer was right there with the franchise player AD in stinking up the Palace on home games. AD and Leuer playing together meant disaster for the Pistons because neither can play average NBA defense. Leuer does try harder to concentrate but is just not quick enough or strong enough to defend or secure critical defensive rebounds. But who cares about the details. SVG has to play Leuer and he has to play AD significant minutes again. It will not make any difference as to how Ellenson plays in training camp. SVG must feature Leuer so he can build up his trade value and prove that SVG was not a fool to have bid against himself with that bogus contract offer when nobody else was interested. Did the Suns want Leuer? NO SVG they had him at the end of the bench. Nothing against Leuer as a person. Good for him to score such a nice contract from our foolish Piston management team. This is one SVG and the way he runs the Piston's program. He will not do the right thing. He will play contracts. So get used to a lot of Reggie, AD, and Leuer.

How many more articles will it take for Piston fans to start getting excited about seeing the same players who stunk it up for the Pistons last season? Piston management thinks the propaganda will work. But what a turn off for people who want to watch real basketball.

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We all have our memories of Rufus!

Post  Oracle on Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:48 am

I remember when the Pistons were down 20 points with 45 seconds left and Rufus scored 21 straight points, then blocked the shot that would have beat them at the buzzer... you can't teach greatness!
merc wrote:Remember when hit that half court shot on one leg? Even Lee357 had to bow to his superior range.
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Rufus sighting?

Post  merc on Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:40 am

Remember when hit that half court shot on one leg? Even Lee357 had to bow to his superior range.
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Gimp Lovers?

Post  Oracle on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:19 pm

In order to score, you have to be in the game!

There's something to be said about actually being available to play games, but there are a lot of Gimp Lovers out there  lol

I know, SVG knows, and everybody else should know that Reggie Buttocks is going to get hurt some time this coming season and miss a sh!t load of games.

But do we have another Gimp in waiting, lurking in the starting lineup. I raised the flag quite awhile ago, but it got ignored as dreams of massive accomplishments filled the forum.

But now, even the simple minded local media is beginning to recognize that there may be a problem that hoping might not help.

From the articleBest and worst case scenarios for Avery Bradley
https://pistonpowered.com/2017/09/17/detroit-pistons-avery-bradley-best/[/mention] wrote:More than just Bradley’s performance will be worth watching closely this coming season. His health will be a vital factor as well. Bradley has a hard time staying healthy, with more than 64 games played in only two of his seven seasons. Last year he played just 55 games, and his average games played per season is a meager 59.


He enters the season with a clean bill of health, but it’s a concerning pattern for Bradley. If he has another injury-plagued season, this team might not have enough depth and talent to overcome it. If he misses extended time and Reggie Jackson is hampered once again by knee tendinitis, this season is all but over.
As they say, reality is a bitch, and she just might be in heat...
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Check out the Tobias Harris web site

Post  cool breeze on Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:06 pm

What is not to like about Tobias Harris? He is one of the good guys and he plays for the Pistons. Trains hard, cares about other people, does the little extra things relating to conditioning and diet to become the best player he can be. And his jump shot sure looks sweet in that video. Maybe Tobias Harris is ready to be one of the Piston team leaders with Avery Bradley. No more AD and RJ even thinking about being team leaders.

Don't even think about it Piston management relating to the coach or owner picking the team leader. Players have to decide who they want as their leader. It was incredible that the owner and SVG made that decision last season. The guy they picked was the same guy that the coach was worried about not being engaged with the job he was being paid to do. Slacking in any other profession usually gets you fired unless it is a Federal government job in Washington DC. You can walk the halls with a blank mind for years and nobody will know. AD does work in the community. He has a good heart. But he doesn't have a personality of a leader or a player in the game of basketball who is obsessed with doing whatever it takes to win and can show others how to do it. Only a moron would have designated him as the leader last season. The player who makes the most money is the designated team leader according to this Piston management team. What does Zeke think of that nonsense? We have no Zeke. That is the problem. He needs to be making the decisions for the Pistons. When will that happen????

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:35 pm

BallinD wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Some NBA watchers have predicted the Bucks to take a step back this coming season. No way that will be happening unless they get hit with the injury bug again. No the key young players are work dogs who love working on their weaknesses unlike our franchise player AD. AD we want you to become more engaged on defense. Please will you at least try? If you know about this young group of studs who go at each other for hours, you would know that they would laugh in your face if a coach ever made that statement to them. Nobody would do it. The coaching staff already knows what is in their hearts. That is why Greg Monroe is looking quicker and is in better shape. Watch this team play defense this season if you were impressed with them in the playoffs last spring. They are athletic and explosive. And they have a coach who is playing a style that fits his team unlike our head coach. Our coach will keep on trying the impossible begging and bleeding for his two butt buddies to get in game shape and play defense like men. Nobody can suddenly transform themselves into something they are not. The Bucks young studs are long and lean and extremely quick. They get down the court in transition quicker than any team in the league. Their young studs will challenge any opponent trying to score in the paint.

SVG likes no conflict or opposition to his 4 out 1 in offense featuring brain dead point guard dribbling, no screening, and of course the franchise player throwing up those baseline hook shots. No Jason Terry would pack his bags and be out of that insanity we saw so much of last season very quickly. He doesn't need the money. Meanwhile, SVG and his staff seemed to enjoy what went on last year. They feel that they did their jobs well and all members of the staff returned. SVG must have been very pleased with all of the work of his assistants as well as himself. Yet for many of us he looked and acted like an idiot never making the right adjustments while always featuring his wimpy over paid slackers.

Until either SVG leaves Detroit or is forced to coach the right way and establish an offense and defense that best benefits the superior players on the roster instead of the highest paid below average players, this team will flounder while the Bucks players zoom past our big men for easy layups whenever they feel the urge. Can't wait for this matchup with the Pistons to see how SVG tries to do the impossible. His post game comments will be much the same. Well we just need to concentrate more and be more engaged on defense. We are working on that.

Cool:  We got AT and I hope he leads on the court and leads us in 3pt. shooting, behind the rookie.  There may be a few candidates for that slot, and it may be one Avery Bradley who leads us in 3pt shooting, and provides the type of leadership tandom with AT that is effectively a two-headed snake of leadership and shooting.  Another candidate is Bullock, if he can stay on the court, and Kennard, if he can get on the court.

I hope the players and the assistant coaches and the fans remind SVG of all his mea culpas from last season, afte he forgot to substitute for a player who did not have it that night, or forgot to call a play, or forgot to call off the "fire at will" phase of his offense, or forgot to sit Weggie on the second night of a back-2-back  ("my bad," said Stupid Van Gundy.  " I woulda, shoulda, but couldn't quite force myself to mend my evil ways.")  If he does not, we will have a lame duck loser.  At least he brought back AT.

He never lost the weight.  He never recast the Pistons, just shuffled the chairs around.  Never is a long time, so let's see what change was wrought from last season's swan song to end the season.  So far, I'm seeing a classic double down on the Weggie and Drum show.  AT and AB may not like it,  but he is the coach so what can they do?  

Call another player's only meeting and tell Dre and Weggie to get with the program?

BallinD I sure hope Tolliver gets more minutes than Leuer but take a look at the planted article to the right about who should start Leuer or Johnson. Yes the old simulation trick where you blend stats in to make logic out of something that your own eyes have already seen last season. What is interesting is how the writer for SVG states how respected Leuer is around the NBA. I respect him as well. He is a great guy off the court. But the Suns didn't like what they saw and placed him on the bench. SVG decided to over pay Leuer so what can he do but do the wrong thing now. He will play him a lot of minutes and bump other players out. Leuer is the $10 plus million dollar man. He has to play. AD has to play he is the franchise player. And then there is Reggie Jackson with his contract. SVG just has to play him to so all three might be in the starting lineup. That means Detroit will be starting three of the weakest defenders in their position in the entire NBA. Add Harris who is not great at defending small forwards and it is clear that Bradley will have his hands full. Bradley could cover for Thomas last season but that was just one player. SVG might be blaming him when everything goes sour in the first quarter again this season. Or maybe he will blame Johnson again.

I sure will be surprised if SVG actually does the right thing for the first time as a Piston coach and doesn't play contracts. But history shows he has never done that. What should PASS subscribers do this season? Should we finally throw in the towel? How can Drummond, Jackson and Leuer suddenly after one summer off resting become average defenders? They don't know how much effort and concentration it takes to play average defense in the NBA.

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Grizzled Vets

Post  BallinD on Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:14 pm

cool breeze wrote:Some NBA watchers have predicted the Bucks to take a step back this coming season. No way that will be happening unless they get hit with the injury bug again. No the key young players are work dogs who love working on their weaknesses unlike our franchise player AD. AD we want you to become more engaged on defense. Please will you at least try? If you know about this young group of studs who go at each other for hours, you would know that they would laugh in your face if a coach ever made that statement to them. Nobody would do it. The coaching staff already knows what is in their hearts. That is why Greg Monroe is looking quicker and is in better shape. Watch this team play defense this season if you were impressed with them in the playoffs last spring. They are athletic and explosive. And they have a coach who is playing a style that fits his team unlike our head coach. Our coach will keep on trying the impossible begging and bleeding for his two butt buddies to get in game shape and play defense like men. Nobody can suddenly transform themselves into something they are not. The Bucks young studs are long and lean and extremely quick. They get down the court in transition quicker than any team in the league. Their young studs will challenge any opponent trying to score in the paint.

SVG likes no conflict or opposition to his 4 out 1 in offense featuring brain dead point guard dribbling, no screening, and of course the franchise player throwing up those baseline hook shots. No Jason Terry would pack his bags and be out of that insanity we saw so much of last season very quickly. He doesn't need the money. Meanwhile, SVG and his staff seemed to enjoy what went on last year. They feel that they did their jobs well and all members of the staff returned. SVG must have been very pleased with all of the work of his assistants as well as himself. Yet for many of us he looked and acted like an idiot never making the right adjustments while always featuring his wimpy over paid slackers.

Until either SVG leaves Detroit or is forced to coach the right way and establish an offense and defense that best benefits the superior players on the roster instead of the highest paid below average players, this team will flounder while the Bucks players zoom past our big men for easy layups whenever they feel the urge. Can't wait for this matchup with the Pistons to see how SVG tries to do the impossible. His post game comments will be much the same. Well we just need to concentrate more and be more engaged on defense. We are working on that.

Cool:  We got AT and I hope he leads on the court and leads us in 3pt. shooting, behind the rookie.  There may be a few candidates for that slot, and it may be one Avery Bradley who leads us in 3pt shooting, and provides the type of leadership tandom with AT that is effectively a two-headed snake of leadership and shooting.  Another candidate is Bullock, if he can stay on the court, and Kennard, if he can get on the court.

I hope the players and the assistant coaches and the fans remind SVG of all his mea culpas from last season, afte he forgot to substitute for a player who did not have it that night, or forgot to call a play, or forgot to call off the "fire at will" phase of his offense, or forgot to sit Weggie on the second night of a back-2-back ("my bad," said Stupid Van Gundy.  " I woulda, shoulda, but couldn't quite force myself to mend my evil ways.")  If he does not, we will have a lame duck loser.  At least he brought back AT.

He never lost the weight.  He never recast the Pistons, just shuffled the chairs around.  Never is a long time, so let's see what change was wrought from last season's swan song to end the season.  So far, I'm seeing a classic double down on the Weggie and Drum show.  AT and AB may not like it,  but he is the coach so what can they do?  

Call another player's only meeting and tell Dre and Weggie to get with the program?
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Bucks smart to bring back Jason Terry

Post  cool breeze on Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:01 pm

Some NBA watchers have predicted the Bucks to take a step back this coming season. No way that will be happening unless they get hit with the injury bug again. No the key young players are work dogs who love working on their weaknesses unlike our franchise player AD. AD we want you to become more engaged on defense. Please will you at least try? If you know about this young group of studs who go at each other for hours, you would know that they would laugh in your face if a coach ever made that statement to them. Nobody would do it. The coaching staff already knows what is in their hearts. That is why Greg Monroe is looking quicker and is in better shape. Watch this team play defense this season if you were impressed with them in the playoffs last spring. They are athletic and explosive. And they have a coach who is playing a style that fits his team unlike our head coach. Our coach will keep on trying the impossible begging and bleeding for his two butt buddies to get in game shape and play defense like men. Nobody can suddenly transform themselves into something they are not. The Bucks young studs are long and lean and extremely quick. They get down the court in transition quicker than any team in the league. Their young studs will challenge any opponent trying to score in the paint.

Jason Terry is a man who has a long history of playing the right way and teaching young players how to play the right way. Terry brought a lot of stability to the Bucks young roster last season. It was a no brainer to bring back a 40 year old player. I remember Terry when he played for Arizona. For his first three seasons, he bit the bullet and volunteered to come off the bench. His unselfishness and defensive ability was a key to his team winning the NCAA championship. Then in his senior season he showed the world how good he was individually as he was an outstanding offensive talent on a team that had lost many future NBA players. He was PAC10 MVP and single handedly beat UCLA in the last game of the season in the biggest PAC10 game of the season. Detroit sure could have benefited from a player like Terry over the past 3 years. I am sure Jason would have been upset with the ball hogging habits of SVG's chosen point guards though so most likely that is why SVG didn't try to sign him. SVG likes no conflict or opposition to his 4 out 1 in offense featuring brain dead point guard dribbling, no screening, and of course the franchise player throwing up those baseline hook shots. No Jason Terry would pack his bags and be out of that insanity we saw so much of last season very quickly. He doesn't need the money. Meanwhile, SVG and his staff seemed to enjoy what went on last year. They feel that they did their jobs well and all members of the staff returned. SVG must have been very pleased with all of the work of his assistants as well as himself. Yet for many of us he looked and acted like an idiot never making the right adjustments while always featuring his wimpy over paid slackers.

Until either SVG leaves Detroit or is forced to coach the right way and establish an offense and defense that best benefits the superior players on the roster instead of the highest paid below average players, this team will flounder while the Bucks players zoom past our big men for easy layups whenever they feel the urge. Can't wait for this matchup with the Pistons to see how SVG tries to do the impossible. His post game comments will be much the same. Well we just need to concentrate more and be more engaged on defense. We are working on that.

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Fairly good news: "Ranking Every NBA Team's Starting Backcourt Ahead of 2017-18 Season"

Post  Oracle on Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:51 pm

We came in 14th out of 30, which is a better ranking than I expected! This is amazing because it puts us ahead of the Spurs, Clippers and other good teams backcourts! For reference, Lonzo Ball & KCP rank 20th on the list!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2733014-ranking-every-nba-teams-starting-backcourt-ahead-of-2017-18-season[/mention] wrote:As the NBA moves further and further into the three-point revolution, having guards capable of spacing the floor, setting up their teammates and shutting down others who can do the same has only grown increasingly important. 

Only two of last year's postseason quarterfinalists find their backcourt ranked outside the top half in this countdown of the league's best for 2017-18. So while having star wings is advantageous—ditto for versatile contributors from the biggest spots—enjoying quality play at the smaller spots is almost always vital to success. 

We're factoring in offense, defense, rebounding and plenty more—literally everything that happens on the court. But do note that these rankings are ultimately determined in subjective fashion. That subjectivity is based on plenty of film analysis and numerical work, but evaluating players is almost always a task in which opinions matter.

The order will also likely change as the season progresses and relevant players either regress or begin to break out. But for the time being, this is how the backcourts stack up heading into the next campaign. 

The best of the best get to the top either by boasting a dominant player at one key spot and a competent one at the other, or by featuring a star apiece at point guard and shooting guard. The latter is the goal for every organization, but attaining it makes for a tall order. 
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OMG, Rufus registered???

Post  Oracle on Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:33 pm

Murph wrote:I see Rufus is the most recent poster to register on this forum.  Hmmmm....you don't suppose?
Wise, I forgot that you weren't one of the long time DetNews forum vets.

How could we forget the GREAT Rufus Henry, whose legend is only eclipsed by Zeke himself!

I'm sure Merc & Lemonpen remember Rufus!

I only hope for your sake he isn't pissed off by a fan that can't remember his Piston greatness  lol
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LMAO!!! Murph

Post  WTF on Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:23 am

Murph wrote:I see Rufus is the most recent poster to register on this forum.  Hmmmm....you don't suppose?


Who the hell is Rufus Henry?
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Re: FORUM

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