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How good is Avery Bradley's defense?

Post  Oracle on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:48 pm

deusXango wrote:Damn! After reading KCP's enthusiastic remarks about playing with Lonzo Ball (an untried rookie), I understand why he wanted a max contract; if he was to continue playing with ball hogging Reggie Jackson, a max was what was required! It sounded like being Reggie's backcourt mate wasn't any fun at all.

Wise, starting Kennard at PG is not a bad idea at all...I just hope SVG allows him to be a part of his rotation!

First, let me say that DX & Wise have some very good out of the box thinking, I too am all for seeing if Luke "Looking for a new Girlfriend" Kennard can get as many minutes at PG as possible.

IMO, Wise gave some compelling reasons, but the reason I liked best was that the defense could not sag off of him, and that alone opens up the floor for a lot of other things. He's also a guy that can get and hit those last second shots with his quick release, so he can take the pressure off in tight situations.

A lot to ask of a rookie, but he's capable if he gets enough PT, and by year 2, we could be looking at something special... or a dud, but we won't know if we don't try.

Back to Bradley: Here's what they're saying about Bradley,
https://pistonpowered.com/2017/08/15/detroit-pistons-avery-bradley-defense/ wrote:The majority of the stats do not point to Avery Bradley being an elite or lockdown defender, and this is most likely because he spent the majority of time, playing with a very poor defensive guard in the league, in Isaiah Thomas.

If we look at Bradley’s stats as an individual then we discover he had a defensive rating of 107.5 last season, a net rating of +1.2, a defensive rebound percentage of 16.1 and a defensive win share of 2, with a total win share of 3.1. So Bradley is a high-rebounding guard, who contributes more to wins from his defense than his offense, which isn’t really news.
The part I underlined is important, though I know some people here don't believe that a players defense can be changed by playing with a poor defensive guard.

I know this because I said KCP's defense would be better if he played on a team that had other plus defenders, and a lot of people didn't believe it.

Bradley had the benefit of playing on a team that had other good defenders even if the PG was very poor, so to get the best from him, we will need better defense in the starting unit, which drives me to the following starting unit, and yes, I'm playing into some of the coaches politics, but not all of it.

PG: Reggie
SG: Bradley
SF: Stanley
PF: Harris
C:  Drummond

You could argue that Leuer would provide better defense, but IMO, he doesn't have the full package. Reggie & Drummond will have to produce, I have a lot more faith in Drummond than Reggie until I see some preseason games, but it's Stanley's time, we can't keep playing with this, he needs to start so that we can make a decision about the future.

This is an odd season, we're rebuilding, but we're not rebuilding if that makes any sense. I may not be saying that right, but we're in a funny place where I could see this season going one of two ways.

1. We win a lot and life is good, but in this case we may not do much youngster development, or
2. We stumble and then it should be all about player development

I don't trust SVG with the middle ground, where we win AND  he develops the youngsters. I guess I think option 1 is most likely, we win a lot and he shuts out the youngsters other than Stanley.
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Positionless Basketball

Post  BallinD on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:27 pm

Never in my wildest dreams would I expect or believe SVG would let Kennard play PG, but I believe he could allow him to run some offense in certain lineups: SJ, Bullock, Kennard, Ish and Boban; or Moreland, Kennard, Galloway Tobias, Bullock, or Kennard, Bradley, Bullock, Tobias, Leuer.

IMHO, by the end of the season it will be apparent we have a "talent" in Kennard, talent to be unleashed by SVG or his successor?

WTF, DX and Cool, I am excited for his prospects as at least a secondary ball handler and I keep thinking about the comps of Kennard to Ginobli, Mullin...
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PG Mindset

Post  WTF on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:02 pm

Yes Kennard is a rookie and I want to see him start or at least play significant minutes rotating from PG and SG position. I like what I seen thus far from this kid and unlike all the other attempts to convert SG into PG we tried (Stuckey and others) I think this kid is capable.

1. He's a shooter/score much in the manner of CB not that I'm comparing the two but he has the ability to be a deep threat thus keeping defenses honest and he's defender won't be so quick to back off of him.

2. Being 6"5 at the PG is always a plus, can't say he'll be as good as CB drawing fouls but he has something that CB didn't have. Kennard has the ability to create shots off the dribble we seen this in SL play, we seen it in his draft videos from college. He's also quicker and more agile so I'm not all that concerned about his ability to defend. If he's as smart as CB and has the high Basketball IQ I think he does he'll be just fine.

3. This isn't over blown hyping of Kennard more so the realization of knowing Reggie isn't what this team needs as it's PG. Neither is Ish though I prefer Ish over Reggie but I could easily prefer any pass first PG over him. Ish isn't the right PG either.

4. While competition on a team is good so is deferring this is something Reggie can't do and something that Ish can't do consistently. If our intention are to maximize the abilities of both Bradley and Harris and we should then the last thing we need is a PG that's taking 20 plus shots a game. As much as I think the Westbrook's and Harden's of the NBA are exciting to watch and seeing them dominate games Reggie is a wannabe and this hurts the team.

5. Kennard IMO as a rookie would be more likely to defer at PG position, pass first and run the offense effectively.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:19 pm

deusXango wrote:Damn! After reading KCP's enthusiastic remarks about playing with Lonzo Ball (an untried rookie), I understand why he wanted a max contract; if he was to continue playing with ball hogging Reggie Jackson, a max was what was required! It sounded like being Reggie's backcourt mate wasn't any fun at all.

Wise, starting Kennard at PG is not a bad idea at all...I just hope SVG allows him to be a part of his rotation!

I like this post dX. It didn't't make any difference who played the 2 guard last season. Actually KCP got a lot more consideration relating to receiving a pass than any of the other bench guys who played that position. And it really didn't make any difference who played point guard for the Pistons because both Ish and Reggie played offense the same way. So is the strategy SVG implements like this. Reggie and Ish have the green light. The rest of you chumps just stand. You are decoys for my selected scorers. Did opposing teams laugh at Stan Van Gundy last season when they watched the game taps. I did because SVG allowed this lame one on one point guard ball hog style where opposing players only had to steer Reggie or Ish into a double team as they went into the paint out of control as a failing point guard might do in college. Who can have any confidence in the Detroit Pistons if you have any memory at all of the games our Pistons played in the last half of the season? The coaching staff made no changes in the style or the player combinations other than take Harris out of the starting lineup and completely screw up Stanley Johnson's mind. So yes the only way KCP could keep his sanity and play again with our point guards and for this coach would be to secure a max contract. Detroit's coaches were not able to create any sound offensive strategy. They were not only unable to control how the point guards played basketball but they had no control of the franchise player who did his thing on both ends of the floor. And SVG just can't figure out why the team chemistry was so bad.

Kennard needs to play and I would love him to take over the point guard spot. But the owner likes the combination of Reggie and Andre. He thinks that sells more season tickets. So my biggest worry is that we will watch dull dysfunctional basketball with Andre dancing in pre game with his feet hotter than a two dollar gun and then after about 4 minutes gone in the 1st quarter, AD's shoes will be stone cold as he jogs back on defense watching the opposing center make a layup before he gets to the free throw line. Then after the easy score, Reggie will dribble the ball up the court slowly to get his breath and then he will see a tiny opening as Andre sets a weak screen and will drive the basketball towards the hoop only to be met by two big guys. Andre will expend great energy on the roll to the basket but as opposing teams know this is the only play the Pistons have in their war chest, AD will be forced out where he will get the ball and launch that 10 foot fade away hook from the baseline.

Meanwhile Kennard will watch from the bench and see all the possibilities and know better to not drive aimlessly into traffic with only one plan in mind. But he won't get the chance to run the offense. SVG had all last season to change the way Detroit played basketball. Our Pistons played dumb basketball most of the time. Stan talks about players needing to show more energy on both ends of the floor. For sure some were slackers playing with less than a full effort. But they need a better plan. Way did Smith play the same way Reggie did? Why was he a ball dominate point guard too? Is that in his nature or did the coaching staff tell him to play that way? I think the head coach told him to push the ball like Reggie and be a one man show like Reggie. After all don't the fans want entertainment rather than real basketball? Do the Pistons have real coaches or fake coaches? No coach could be that dumb to ignore how the team performed on both ends of the floor last season could they?

The coaching staff should get a wake up call from the owner before the regular season begins. The owner should tell the coaching staff that this current roster has more players who have high basketball IQs but there still are some really mentally ill equipped players coming back who share the big ego problem. How will low basketball IQ players who were the team leaders last season lead high basketball players who know how to play the right way and will not tolerate the style that SVG employed last year relating to the offense and who dominated the basketball? Unless the players like Bradley, Harris, Johnson, Kennard, Tolliver, Galliger, Moreland lead instead of RJ and AD, this team will be going nowhere. That means the offense must play completely different. More passing, cutting, and screening with ball and player movement while playing both sides of the court. That cannot happen with RJ and AD on the court unless they become different players. What are the odds of that happening? And the owner and coaches need a new mind set for everything to work. No longer should the pet players be able to whine to the owner after they get bitched out by a coach. No longer should a player say he will not work with the designated shooting coach unless that player can shoot over 80% at the free throw line. What happened last season was so silly and childish like how can anyone have any confidence with the prime offenders are still here? I am not excluding the coaches with that statement.

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Murph

Post  WTF on Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:52 am

Murph wrote:I think what people also have to consider are the intangibles.  My guess is that Reggie Jackson knee will be much improved this season making Reggie a much better player...more like the Reggie Jackson of 15-16, than 16-17.

Also, improved chemistry will be a factor.  It's always been my contention that dumping Morris will be addition by subtraction.  In other words, the improved chemistry due to his absence, will more than out-weight the loss of his 14 points and 4 rebounds per game.  And just the fact that Harris can now start at SF will represent a huge improvement in talent and chemistry.

The 3rd factor will be the new arena.  I'm guessing the Pistons will get an infusion of energy and enthusiasm from playing in a new, state of the art downtown arena, in front of many more fans.  And I'm guessing the downtown fans will be more hard-core, more vocal and more enthusiastic than the suburban fans.  Hopefully that energy and enthusiasm will be contagious throughout the season.


Clearly the Pistons have enough talent to play over .500 and even make the 2nd round of the playoffs.  The question will be can SVG get this talented group to play together efficiently and intelligently.

I'll predict 46 wins and a 2nd round appearance.


Chemistry starts at the PG position and I'm not convinced d that Reggie is capable being 100% healthy or not. Your PG can't be the first option in the offense and effectively distribute the ball enough to keep the team flowing and other players happy.

I don't think Morris was the chemistry killer, while his 14 point and 4 rebounds can be replaced he was probably the anchor defensively for this team and I'm not sure that can be replaced.

I think there's enough talent on the team that 50 wins should be possible but this team is also dumb enough that could finish the same way it did last season as well. My concerns will always be SVG, Reggie and AD I'm just not confident change will come there not matter what we do around them via draft, FA or trade.
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Sparma

Post  WTF on Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:33 am

Sparma wrote:I'd be very surprised if the Pistons finish behind the Bulls again this year.  Most don't think the Bulls got much of a haul for Butler, Rondo's gone who was dynamite in the playoffs, and Wade's evidently about to be bought out.

The case of Indiana's tougher, I think.  Their Paul George trade was widely panned, but I think they got a nice return for one year of a superstar.  Still, they should take a step back.  I would expect the Pistons to overtake them, but I'm not so sure.

Catching up with Cleveland's a dream (but maybe next year, sans LeBron?)  I don't think Detroit pass Milwaukee either.  A young team can take a step backwards, but I see them above us for a good stretch of seasons.

WTF wrote:Pistons finished last in their division last season and the teams that finished ahead of them had records of .500 and better.  My question is do you think the teams that finished ahead of them gotten better or worse over the season?  Did the Pistons surpass any of them this off-season with the moves they've made over the summer?

Kinda thinking the same thing I can see the Bulls dropping and the Pistons surpassing them but not all that sure the fall off of the Pacers will be that significant with the loss of George.
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Intangibles

Post  Murph on Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:58 am

I think what people also have to consider are the intangibles. My guess is that Reggie Jackson knee will be much improved this season making Reggie a much better player...more like the Reggie Jackson of 15-16, than 16-17.

Also, improved chemistry will be a factor. It's always been my contention that dumping Morris will be addition by subtraction. In other words, the improved chemistry due to his absence, will more than out-weight the loss of his 14 points and 4 rebounds per game. And just the fact that Harris can now start at SF will represent a huge improvement in talent and chemistry.

The 3rd factor will be the new arena. I'm guessing the Pistons will get an infusion of energy and enthusiasm from playing in a new, state of the art downtown arena, in front of many more fans. And I'm guessing the downtown fans will be more hard-core, more vocal and more enthusiastic than the suburban fans. Hopefully that energy and enthusiasm will be contagious throughout the season.


Clearly the Pistons have enough talent to play over .500 and even make the 2nd round of the playoffs. The question will be can SVG get this talented group to play together efficiently and intelligently.

I'll predict 46 wins and a 2nd round appearance.
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Central Division

Post  Sparma on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:25 pm

I'd be very surprised if the Pistons finish behind the Bulls again this year. Most don't think the Bulls got much of a haul for Butler, Rondo's gone who was dynamite in the playoffs, and Wade's evidently about to be bought out.

The case of Indiana's tougher, I think. Their Paul George trade was widely panned, but I think they got a nice return for one year of a superstar. Still, they should take a step back. I would expect the Pistons to overtake them, but I'm not so sure.

Catching up with Cleveland's a dream (but maybe next year, sans LeBron?) I don't think Detroit pass Milwaukee either. A young team can take a step backwards, but I see them above us for a good stretch of seasons.

WTF wrote:Pistons finished last in their division last season and the teams that finished ahead of them had records of .500 and better.  My question is do you think the teams that finished ahead of them gotten better or worse over the season?  Did the Pistons surpass any of them this off-season with the moves they've made over the summer?
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Roster Talk

Post  WTF on Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:57 pm

This that **** that irks the hell out of me. If there was every a time to toss a rookie to the wolves this is it Kennard should be backing up Bradley period otherwise why draft him. Galloway and Bullock might be seasoned but that don't necessarily say they're better or even the better fit for this team.

I swear nothing much has changed with team (regime) from the old one and reeks of the same dumb crap Joe was pulling when time to address certain positions. Joe was either over stacking a position, drafting tweener's or simply playing players out of positon.

A roster consist of 15 players but only 12 can be dressed and in the rotation. Ideally IMO those 12 player consist of 2 centers, 2 SF, 2 PG, 2 SG and at least 3 PF so far that's 11 player, then you throw 1 Hybrid or Tweener spot which I think should be a big that can alternate from the center to forward.

Even if you have combo guards you don't need more than 4 guards in that 12. Even better is a Hybrid from the SF that can effectively play 4 positions for the purpose of going big/small by turning them into a point forward or moving them into the 4 spot.

You know for the most part Chuck rotated Zeke, Dumars, and VJ and LB rotated CB, Rip, Hunter and Mike James, I think both teams had traditionally built rosters. I don't like our roster only because of an inept coach.
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Take Off The Homer Glasses Before Answering

Post  WTF on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:48 pm

Pistons finished last in their division last season and the teams that finished ahead of them had records of .500 and better. My question is do you think the teams that finished ahead of them gotten better or worse over the season? Did the Pistons surpass any of them this off-season with the moves they've made over the summer?
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KCP and Lonzo Ball

Post  deusXango on Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:19 pm

Damn! After reading KCP's enthusiastic remarks about playing with Lonzo Ball (an untried rookie), I understand why he wanted a max contract; if he was to continue playing with ball hogging Reggie Jackson, a max was what was required! It sounded like being Reggie's backcourt mate wasn't any fun at all.

Wise, starting Kennard at PG is not a bad idea at all...I just hope SVG allows him to be a part of his rotation!
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Other If's

Post  WTF on Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:39 pm

If SJ is still playing like a knucklehead SVG need to get the trade talk going ASAP! If he still making the same mistake from last season and his rookie season (trade him or bench him)

I don't want to hear any talk of waiting for Jackson and Bradley to gel as a backcourt. These are both veteran players they should be where they need to be as a dou before traning camp is even over. Question are they playing now in some form together starting that process of developing chemistry. If this isn't working by the first 10 games or the season better yet if it not clicking by end of preseason then Jackson needs to go immediately especially if the team intention are to keep Bradley next season.

If Drummond come in doing the same things as last season then it's time to bench him. Sadley the team is stuck with him but they don't have to be stuck on stupid. Chalk the **** up as a lesson learn and move forward with something else AD won't be the first player over paid and relegated to coming off the bench or not playing at all.

I think we could have a hell of a trio with Kennard, Bradley, and Harris (if may gut feeling is right about Kennard) I rather see Bradley and Harris as the focal point offensively for this team. That can't happen if Reggie wants to be the superstar and AD thinking he deserve 30 touches without playing defense and converting FT's.
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I Will Make One Prediction For The Season

Post  WTF on Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:17 pm

Kennard could very well be ROY clearly a gut feeling but it's a strong one. My fear is again that coaching and politics might very well get in his way.

I think we have a gem waiting to brightly shine for this team. I honestly think Kennard could effectively play the PG well enough to start. I think he's smart enough to effectively run an offense and smart enough to defend it.

I know I have not seen him play one game in the pros but again my gut is saying we have something special here. The last time I thought or felt this was with AA and I think Kennard is better. Ask me I would rather see a backcourt of Kennard and Bradley over the one of Jackson and Bradley.

Also I don't think Kennard needs to be coming off a bench that includes SJ, Tolliver and Ish. This would/could only work if Ish was a traditional pass first PG himself and was smart enough to get the ball consistently to Kennard. SVG wanted a shooter he has one now but watch him screw this up.

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KARMA This Team Is Cursed

Post  WTF on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:11 pm

Coaching has been an issue for as long as our issues with the make up of this roster. I know we can separate one regime from the other but both the regime from the closing years of Mr. D era and this current one of Mr. Gore have more similarities than many might want to admit it does.

Ironic that the last great coach we had is one many fans seemed to hate the must (Flip Saunders). I never liked how Flip was served up to the media and scape-goated. We all knew that the demise of what should have been a Dynasty was mered in dumb move after dumb move by Joe.

Maybe Gore upon purchasing the team should have decided to change the team name separating it from what once was a great legacy and tradition oppose to carrying that curse of ignorance, ineptness and deception that followed the firing of Flip. Question have we had a coach that came even close to being as good as Flip since his firing? Hell to the Naw!!!

Rick, Chuck, Doug, Larry, Flip were likely the last good coaches this team had and 4 of them potentially could have brought us NBA titles but only 2 of them managed to. How many coaches have we gone through since Flips firing? what did all 5 of these coaches have in common that our current coach lacks?

The one decent coach we did have over the last 10-11 season was Cheeks but he was scapedgoated as well and was a lamed duck coach before he even got started.

SVG would have been the last thing on the radar as far as hiring as a coach, GM, President or water boy/towel boy considering many of the other options that were out there for us. I'm sure our current group of players would have hated all 5 of those past coaching greats but they would be a playoff contending team year after year season after season.

No one wants to hear SVG excuses our see the blame game being played and scapegoating of players. Even if this team was to go beyong anyone expectation this season it will not come as a result of great coaching. I would hope Gore would recognized that and proceed to upgrade the team on al fronts.
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Fantasy Basketball #101

Post  deusXango on Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:43 am

Under SVG's regime the ongoing mantra is "defense, defense, defense!" Why is he starting so many non-defenders, hoping and praying that they somehow stop opposing offenses, and I'm not talking elite offensive players, in all cases? Here's a dose of reality people, one elite level defender won't solve our defensive woes! There's daily rants on Andre Drummond's inability or unwillingness to defend the paint to the elephant in the room, Reggie Jackson doing the same on the perimeter. Both have the physical tools, but where the *uck is the effort? Throw in our forwards, Jon Leuer and Tobias Harris, who are mediocre at best and scratch our collective heads over why teams run away from us in the opening of games; how many times during the course of last years campaign did we reverse that trend? We're seeing what the outcome is when paychecks are played instead of competitive player being played. Our championship coaches didn't play the dollar, Chuck and Larry played the players, which SVG refuses to do. It's a shame we don't have "Mr. D" or Will Robinson any longer; they wouldn't have stood for this sh!t. It's remembering those bygone days that I fantasize about what could be done with todays team.

Andre Drummond would and should be our starting center (and not until no deadline)...he's talented and gifted enough that his defensive abilities will manifest under the correct circumstances and he has every right to work on his offense; free throws are an offensive component aren't they? Just like defense takes effort, offensive efficiency requires confidence. Out of the 5 years Drummond's been in the league, how many coaches has he had and what was the caliber of defensive power big that he was partnered with? "The Moose?" Slow footed and lazy. Maxiell? Undersized and inconsistent, whose greatest defensive weapon was a constant scowl. The hardest working power forward Drummond was paired with, IMHO, was Ersan Ilyasova. I'm not going to get into Jon Leuer beyond saying, we can do better....for my money, Leuer would be better served playing backup to Drummond.

Avery Bradley should be given the starting PG assignment because for no other reason, he's a helluva defender going against the elite starting PG's in the league. It's about stopping the ball and disrupting the other teams offense which he's good at. This also answers the naysayers who've been using the argument that Bradley's too short to effectively guard opposing SG's. But does he run the P & R? Who knows, but what we can ascertain he gets the ball up the floor, doesn't pound the air out of it and it doesn't stick in his hands...we loose nothing offensively, but gain a tremendous amount of defense at that spot.

Reggie Bullock would be my choice to start alongside Bradley as the starting SG; he has the size, +/- stats, is a better than average defender, and a truly efficient SG who can shoot! If this Reggie returns to form and remains healthy, we've got a legitimate defensive starting backcourt.

Tobias Harris is the logical choice for SF because of his versatile game as a starting SF on both sides of the ball. His high I.Q., strength, and team first attitude makes for a potentially great help defender. Every player doesn't have to be 1st, 2nd, 3rd All Defensive Team, just the best fitting we've got in order to play up to our potential. Harris has proven that he can fit.

Eric Moreland reminds me so much of Big Ben Wallace that it's a shame; not comparing their games, but their grit, determination, hunger, relentless pursuit to guard the paint, and the fact they were both criminally overlooked. If Ben was on this team, with Drummond, he'd have no problem playing power forward and playing a high level of defense. Chuck would start him. Larry would start him. This guy Moreland, IMHO, is the perfect pairing with Drummond on the defensive end, albeit unproven, but what've we got to loose? How will the team look if this pairing should work out? How would the coach look if this should turn into a top 2-3 defense in the NBA? You don't stop anybody by drifting out to the 3 line and hoisting up shots, that's been tried and we all know how that worked out for us, and this is no way to start the 1st and 3rd quarters. Even though this player is not over-paid, politically connected, or known league wide, he can be a part of resurgence to the top.

Playing 10 deep is easy to do with this starting lineup, because of the energy expended to defend, so there's plenty of room for our young'uns to get substantial PT. This rotation will also preserve the physical health of Reggie Jackson and hold a lead or come from behind when the team finds itself down (very rare occasions). This in my fantasy backup lineup.

Center Jon Leuer
PF Henry Ellenson
SF Stanley Johnson
SG Luke Kennard
PG Reggie Jackson

This is just fantasy and I'd love to hear some of my fellow posters fantasy lineups. I bet we make more sense than some of the write-ups on our Pistons, and certain to be more exciting.
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I'm not concerned with our coaching, I'm disgusted by it

Post  deusXango on Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:17 pm

Great, great post Wise! I know there is support for some players, that'll never change, and I imagine there's coaching support also, that'll never change, but where is the accountability for the Pistons coaching staff? We trade, sign, and let players go, but this inept coaching staff remains firmly in place...what's up with that?!

Tim Hardaway was a part of the famous "Run TMC" trio of Mitch Richman, Chris Mullin, and himself, but aside from all of 'em averaging 20 points in the same season, what did they accomplish team wise? Sure they were exciting to watch, but how many finals did they appear in? We've never had a potentially high-scoring trio like "Run TMC" since Hardaway's been here and Reggie hasn't mastered the Chicago crossover...hell Tim Hardaway Jr. doesn't have it mastered. He's not a defensive minded coach either.

Aaron Gray, who I've often questioned his credentials/qualifications as a big man coach, is/should be in charge of coaching our franchise player, Andre Drummond. As far as teaching the intricacies of a sound defensive game, I have my suspicions about him being responsible for Drummonds lack of development and regression, and SVG doesn't get a free pass on this...Rick Mahorn is always available and Rasheed Wallace was coaching Drummond before SVG took over, so I'm baffled as to why two of the championship, defensive minded big men, from two different eras, are overlooked in favor of Aaron Gray. Some of us constantly downplay the untapped potential of this 24 year old, because of his contract, all while Aaron Gray is quietly stealing money from the Pistons, with SVG's blessings. Perhaps he's transformed Jon Leuer into the indispensable big man he is today....SVG can't find a better fitting big for his starting lineup to play alongside Drummond. (I'm still considering Eric Moreland, I mean, what do we have to loose?)

If a franchise is to grow into a competitive force in todays NBA, how the hell can that be done without developing young talent? Has anyone ever given any thought to what it does to our youthful players confidence when they consistently kick our 2nd-3rd tier veterans asses in practices, only to end up playing in Grand Rapids? When individuals game flaws are exposed to our youth in practices, but SVG rails on imaginary, unimportant, shortcomings of our youth (Stanley Johnson's form on his jump shot, or Henry Ellenson being too small and weak...SVG marked Luke Kennard as a defensive liability right after drafting him, but with that myth being destroyed in less than a month, he's stating that this highly valued shooter probably still won't play, unless it's in Grand Rapids) contributes to team chemistry, doesn't it? If we viewed this from afar, we'd probably say so & so had a sh!t for brains coach, but this is our coach so we won't see past our noses because of misplaced loyalty! If we look at the team payroll and what we have to show for it...if we look at the lack of player development...if we look at the boring offensive style of play SVG insists on...if we look at the apparent inability to make in-game adjustments, we'll see our coach hasn't proven to be deserving of our loyalty...that's if we look with honest eyes.
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Coaching Is My Biggest Concern

Post  WTF on Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:38 pm

Taking I'll believe it when I see it approach to this coming season not even sure I can make a prediction I can be sure of other than I don't think they'll be any worse than last season.

Coaching IMHO was the team most glaring issue for not making the playoffs last season which is why I predicted season last a repeat of the previous season.  I had my doubts about SVG when the team won 44 games and a lot of my doubts we confirmed last season about SVG ability coach this team or any other team.

If defense is Drummond's issue then why is he working on offense this off-season and not defense.  Somewhere the message from SVG to Drummond is not translating so either SVG not capable or Drummond is clearly about self in either case I'm not sure what we'll get out of this team.  

Also I don't think we've gotten better defensively and fear that we might have gotten worse in trading Morris and not knowing if Avery effectively replaces KCP defensively in the line up.
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Don & DX

Post  Oracle on Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:06 pm

Hey guys, good responses from both of you.

Don, I am VERY excited about this coming season. While there are issues and problems to deal with, my excitement centers around a few things.

1. Stanley Johnson possibly getting in the starting lineup and playing with another plus defender. I long dreamed about him and KCP together, but I'm really stoked  seeing him with Bradley. The reason this excites me is that having that level of defense makes it easier to win games and increases our ability to lock teams down in the 4th quarter.

2. Luke and Ellenson: While I want to get Ellenson going, I have to confess that my bigger interest is in Luke, mainly because his game looks like it will translate to the NBA really well. That's no guarantee, but if he doesn't get the chance to work things out in real NBA games, we don't get the benefit. I hope both he and Ellenson make it very hard for SVG to sit them.

3. DX, I haven't given up on Drummond at all, I still have high hopes for him. So I'm excited to see if he listens to SVG and becomes a defense focused player.

4. Reggie: I hope his knee issues are resolved, but even if they are, he still has stamina issues along with his ball hog issues. I believe that if the knee issue is resolved, he may be humbled enough to become a better PG.

Finally, if the stars align, we're a real force to be reckoned with. BTW, I agree with you that the players tuned SVG out in the 2nd half of the season, who could blame them, he blew the season for all of them. That is likely why KCP decided to not come back and walked.

DX, I don't think anybody is hoping or expecting KCP to return, he's in a much better place right now, all he has to do is perform.

He finally has,
1. A real center that can play down low and stretch it out to 3 point land in Lopez

2. A real PG, although a rookie, that only looks to run the team and get others involved in Ball

3. A stage to show off his talent unlike anything he'd ever see here. The Lakers are getting national coverage like CRAZY... he's NEVER coming back!

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Interesting that we were talking about past chemistry issues and today there is an article "SVG Expects Pistons newcomers, led by Bradley t spark a competitive surge"

Post  cool breeze on Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:31 pm

SVG talks about the timeout last season where Morris provided the facts of life to the slackers who showed up for that game. SVG says he took Morris and KCP aside telling them to be more vocal. I don't see KCP as a vocal type of person. He seemed very shy in his interviews. For those of you who hope that KCP returns next year, I suspect that thought will be forgotten once you see Bradley in action. He has leadership qualities and is a really well rounded player who gives maximum effort. And he is articulate. This is the leader that I have been waiting for. I only wish Piston management could work out an extension or secure Bradley's rights long term now because he is going to be fun to watch.

SVG says there is now a larger group of players on the roster who will demand in essence that players play the right way. One should wonder why anyone should have to prod players into doing that given how much money they all make.

Notice that SVG never mentions Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond in that new group he counts on to change the culture 360 degrees from the culture last season when Andre Drummond was the team leader. Some of you say that I pick on the young AD too much. You want to give him a break. But how can you feel that way if you actually watched him play like a slacker for more than half of the season last year. How do you turn a orange into green beans? That is my question. I have never known a big man who was a horrible defender ever completely change their personality and become a really good shot blocker and rim protector. The stats AD gets mean next to nothing relating how he impacts winning and losing. He doesn't get the defensive stops or defensive rebounds when the game is on the line. There has been nothing written or zero quotes from the player himself saying that he plans to change how he plays the game. SVG says a lot and what he hopes Andre will give the team next season. But Drummond by all accounts is working strictly on his offensive game. That must be what he agent is telling him or that is just his nature to be a slacker on defense thinking that a he might get more individual attention if he scores more points. I am sick and tired about anyone saying that we have only one All Star and that guy is Andre Drummond. He was added to that All Star team and I do not believe he ever deserved to make the All Star team because he has always been a below average defender and if you are a big man you cannot be an All Star unless you can defend the paint. It is so silly for Piston management to try to sell tickets based on Andre Drummond making the All Star team two years ago.

While we all thought that Drummond would become a defensive force last season, he fooled us all by coming to training camp about 20 pounds over weight. Now he has lost that weight but I would like to see him lose another 15 pounds if he wants to become a real defender. I will not write AD off completely and would love it if he can change and become a basketball players that his teammates can respect. SVG should give him until the trade deadline to prove he really cares about his teammates and the success of the team. If not and his trade value declines even more, then I hope that SVG does the right thing and starts Eric Moreland and brings either Boban or AD off the bench. If some of you watched Moreland in the summer league, then you might agree that he is the better option right now for the team. He is really athletic and has quick recognitions skills on defense. He helps his teammates when they are over matched in the paint and he never slacks off running from baseline to baseline. I watched Moreland play in the PAC 12 as a college player and really liked him. I suspect that he will beat out Boban eventually and play with the 2nd unit. I just don't believe that AD can get the defensive rotation system down. He cannot make good decisions on the pick and roll plays. Last season I cannot forget how he screwed up the works on the P & R when he would switch from his man to the guard with the ball when guys like KCP had good position after making the effort to go over the high screen. Andre had no clue what he was doing and would up out and force the guard to roll with the opposing center. Then Andre would watch from the free throw line. I think he learned how to slack from Greg Monroe because he did the exact same thing. At no time did SVG identify that big mistake that resulted in easy layups by opposing centers. He never called out AD and acted as if nothing was wrong. This time around I hope Piston fans who attend games become more vocal if the coach doesn't do the right thing. When politics enters the realm of coaching, there will be dysfunction and team chemistry will cause a back up in the toilet.

We have players on the roster this season who want to win. If the coach doesn't interfere I suspect the players will determine who the slackers are and deal with them. Bradley has a long history of kicking ass and taking names. Others who give max effort will stand with him. The coach needs to help in different ways this year. He should not have to tell players to help motivate the team like he told KCP and Morris. If you have to do that in the NBA as a coach, you know for sure that you have a roster full of losers. Will the highest paid players, Reggie and Andre be the biggest problem this coming season? That to me is the biggest question mark this team has to deal with. We have a center who wants to be an offensive star and is not committed to playing defense or improving his defensive game. That guy makes the most money which is an insult to the other players. The other guy plays point guard and is a ball hog and as much of a slacker on defense as AD. Everyone gave him a pass last season because of his past offensive play. This year Reggie Jackson must prove that he can play defense with those long arms and quick feet on a par with Avery Bradley. Then we have Bradley, Jackson, Johnson playing the best perimeter defense in the NBA. Harris, Tolliver, Ellenson, Leuer need to play defense like demons. Who is the best fit for that kind of team at the center position. I say it is Eric Moreland. He goes from a guy hoping to make an NBA roster again to starter and loved by all Piston fans because he will play like Ben Wallace. AD is traded at the deadline because he tried the 10 foot baseline hook shot and was the last man back on defense in a repeat performance from last season. Or AD becomes a man and changes his personality and gives the team, coach and fans what they want most. Then he will be loved and respected as a true Piston player. I say the odds are about 25% that AD will change and that is based on the fact that AD hasn't uttered one word about his need to improve on the defensive end. What does the owner want from AD? Will he kiss his ass again on those late night phone calls? Fans should not blame the coach if AD continues to play like a slacker on defense this season. SVG has made things crystal clear what he has always wanted out of his big man. The fact that AD tuned out SVG should in no way make fans think the tune out was the coaches fault. AD has a long history of tuning out his coaches and doing his own thing. That is why his team lost in the NCAA tournament when he fouled out without even working up a sweat. He let that team down and moved on the the next victim which happened to be the Detroit Pistons. Piston fans need to demand more from him and stop giving him so many excuses. He has been in the league for a long time to get any more passes. AD and RJ are the weak links for this new Piston team not the consistent key vets anyone can count on. They need to show that they can provide the role this team needs from them. They cannot dictate the role that they want to play. The coach needs to make sure they are on the right page with the rest of the team this time around.

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Oracle & Don

Post  deusXango on Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:37 am

Oracle wrote:Don, there are HUGE question marks coming into this season, and those people that predict us to not do well, are 100% correct with their reasoning, but maybe not correct in the conclusion they draw. Here are some of the concerns.

1. Will Reggie make it back? If he does, most of the rest of the team doesn't matter that much, a healthy Reggie means a productive Drummond, and that spells playoffs. It's my belief that putting all our eggs in one basket is wrong; too much is being placed on the shoulders of a selfish PG with a chronic knee problem. Should've taken Rubio when we could.

2. Since Bradley can't offset both KCP & Morris, how do you even break even? Bradley is more steady than KCP, but KCP was much more explosive, I give Bradley the initial advantage, but it's a small one. Can the new additions make up for the loss of Morris? Nobody knows, we have a bunch of unproven guys that we hope will contribute, but we don't know. The one thing the proven guys demonstrated was they were tired of SVG's voice/decision making, no matter what they said publicly, it was their actions on the floor. For some reason last years edition of the Pistons didn't want to play for SVG and if things don't drastically change, he'll loose this years team also. Why do you think the pundits view of the Pistons is so low? SVG!

3. Will Drummond defend? Your guess is as good as mine. As you noticed, he's working on offense yet again, and the film I've seen doesn't impress me one single bit. If we can be so patient with SVG and Reggie, why not Drummond? They either succeed together or go down in flames together? What if Drummond is the only one that earns his pay? Questions, questions, questions.

4. Will Boban be effective? He has great advantages, but he also has great weaknesses. Will they draw him away from the basket then run rings around him? If so, can he score enough to offset that or do teams learn how to strip him easily? Why was he signed, but not played, and without Baynes on the roster, why're we still not planning to play him? (Leuer!)

5. Will SVG play Kennard & Ellenson? We're going to need them later in the season, so even if they don't play much, he has to play them regularly and sometimes at the end of games just to season them. Or will he play the vets at the PF & SG position. Coming off a 37-45 record and missing the playoffs, not playing Ellenson & Kennard makes a strong case for a coaching change before the All-Star break! Seasoning is a good word, but I'd have said something stupid like, developing young talent.

6. Will Stanley step up? 86 points is impressive no matter where you're playing, but that's not going to happen in the NBA. We need scoring from him but defense is more important out of the box. My biggest fear is that SVG leans on him too hard and blows his confidence again... we'll see. If SVG continues to treat Stanley like dog sh!t, we'll clearly see why the lack of team chemistry is here; minimizing Stanley, Tobias, Luke, and Henry is something that'll corrupt the fabric of team unity.

7. Chemistry: How log will it take the team to develop chemistry? A lot has to do with SVG sticking with a consistent lineup and rotation. The longer he experiments, the longer it will take. The longer it takes, the quicker Bradley will make up his mind to walk at seasons end...this'll make some fans happy, who hold out hope for KCP's return.

The bottom line is that for this to be a successful season, this team needs to win 50-54 games, anything less is clearly a bad outcome. Why that number? Well, if anybody believes that we're better from the upgrades, then 

1. That makes this team better than the team that won 44 games in a tough conference
2. As weak as the east will be, a better team should win at least 6-10 more games There is no truer words spoken! I've heard too many times about how weak the east is going to be, but not enough about how powerful the Pistons should be on their own. Thanks Oracle.

So yes, there are questions, but there are also opportunities. We'll see which way this one comes out.

cool breeze wrote:I agree there are some big question marks for Detroit this coming season but i do not agree that the loss of Pope and Morris should be the primary reasons. Last season's roster had big time chemistry issues because the team has too many slackers occupying the starting positions. The biggest slackers were AD and RJ although Reggie was injured so maybe calling him a slacker is a bit harsh. My big question mark for Piston progress is how will AD play? He hasn't said much about becoming a better defender.  SVG has made his request made for Andre to change is emphasis from offense to defense but Andre has been working on offense this summer again. I think AD will be forced into making that change because the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Fans know how much he slacked on defense and will be watching him closely.

The rest of the roster is stronger in my opinion. Perimeter defense will be much better if RJ commits to doing his job in that area. He has the tools to do it but hasn't had the desire much like AD in the past. Those two players need to show the world that they are actually serious basketball players this time around. If so everything will be super cool for the Detroit Pistons and they will make the playoffs. I am getting edgy for training camp.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:13 pm

Oracle wrote:Don, there are HUGE question marks coming into this season, and those people that predict us to not do well, are 100% correct with their reasoning, but maybe not correct in the conclusion they draw. Here are some of the concerns.

1. Will Reggie make it back? If he does, most of the rest of the team doesn't matter that much, a healthy Reggie means a productive Drummond, and that spells playoffs.

2. Since Bradley can't offset both KCP & Morris, how do you even break even? Bradley is more steady than KCP, but KCP was much more explosive, I give Bradley the initial advantage, but it's a small one. Can the new additions make up for the loss of Morris? Nobody knows, we have a bunch of unproven guys that we hope will contribute, but we don't know.

3. Will Drummond defend? Your guess is as good as mine. As you noticed, he's working on offense yet again, and the film I've seen doesn't impress me one single bit.

4. Will Boban be effective? He has great advantages, but he also has great weaknesses. Will they draw him away from the basket then run rings around him? If so, can he score enough to offset that or do teams learn how to strip him easily?

5. Will SVG play Kennard & Ellenson? We're going to need them later in the season, so even if they don't play much, he has to play them regularly and sometimes at the end of games just to season them. Or will he play the vets at the PF & SG position.

6. Will Stanley step up? 86 points is impressive no matter where you're playing, but that's not going to happen in the NBA. We need scoring from him but defense is more important out of the box. My biggest fear is that SVG leans on him too hard and blows his confidence again... we'll see.

7. Chemistry: How log will it take the team to develop chemistry? A lot has to do with SVG sticking with a consistent lineup and rotation. The longer he experiments, the longer it will take.

The bottom line is that for this to be a successful season, this team needs to win 50-54 games, anything less is clearly a bad outcome. Why that number? Well, if anybody believes that we're better from the upgrades, then 

1. That makes this team better than the team that won 44 games in a tough conference
2. As weak as the east will be, a better team should win at least 6-10 more games

So yes, there are questions, but there are also opportunities. We'll see which way this one comes out.

cool breeze wrote:I agree there are some big question marks for Detroit this coming season but i do not agree that the loss of Pope and Morris should be the primary reasons. Last season's roster had big time chemistry issues because the team has too many slackers occupying the starting positions. The biggest slackers were AD and RJ although Reggie was injured so maybe calling him a slacker is a bit harsh. My big question mark for Piston progress is how will AD play? He hasn't said much about becoming a better defender.  SVG has made his request made for Andre to change is emphasis from offense to defense but Andre has been working on offense this summer again. I think AD will be forced into making that change because the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Fans know how much he slacked on defense and will be watching him closely.

The rest of the roster is stronger in my opinion. Perimeter defense will be much better if RJ commits to doing his job in that area. He has the tools to do it but hasn't had the desire much like AD in the past. Those two players need to show the world that they are actually serious basketball players this time around. If so everything will be super cool for the Detroit Pistons and they will make the playoffs. I am getting edgy for training camp.

Very well said Oracle. Are you getting ramped up for the new season? I am but that has always been the case since I was a small kid. Piston basketball!

I am feeling thankful today that my Arizona Wildcat basketball team members, staff and supporting fans are safe after the terrorist attack close to their hotel. Last game has been cancelled but the team has to wait until Saturday to leave so i can only imagine what is going through those kids heads as they wait it our in their hotel.

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Ya Think???

Post  Oracle on Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Don, there are HUGE question marks coming into this season, and those people that predict us to not do well, are 100% correct with their reasoning, but maybe not correct in the conclusion they draw. Here are some of the concerns.

1. Will Reggie make it back? If he does, most of the rest of the team doesn't matter that much, a healthy Reggie means a productive Drummond, and that spells playoffs.

2. Since Bradley can't offset both KCP & Morris, how do you even break even? Bradley is more steady than KCP, but KCP was much more explosive, I give Bradley the initial advantage, but it's a small one. Can the new additions make up for the loss of Morris? Nobody knows, we have a bunch of unproven guys that we hope will contribute, but we don't know.

3. Will Drummond defend? Your guess is as good as mine. As you noticed, he's working on offense yet again, and the film I've seen doesn't impress me one single bit.

4. Will Boban be effective? He has great advantages, but he also has great weaknesses. Will they draw him away from the basket then run rings around him? If so, can he score enough to offset that or do teams learn how to strip him easily?

5. Will SVG play Kennard & Ellenson? We're going to need them later in the season, so even if they don't play much, he has to play them regularly and sometimes at the end of games just to season them. Or will he play the vets at the PF & SG position.

6. Will Stanley step up? 86 points is impressive no matter where you're playing, but that's not going to happen in the NBA. We need scoring from him but defense is more important out of the box. My biggest fear is that SVG leans on him too hard and blows his confidence again... we'll see.

7. Chemistry: How log will it take the team to develop chemistry? A lot has to do with SVG sticking with a consistent lineup and rotation. The longer he experiments, the longer it will take.

The bottom line is that for this to be a successful season, this team needs to win 50-54 games, anything less is clearly a bad outcome. Why that number? Well, if anybody believes that we're better from the upgrades, then 

1. That makes this team better than the team that won 44 games in a tough conference
2. As weak as the east will be, a better team should win at least 6-10 more games

So yes, there are questions, but there are also opportunities. We'll see which way this one comes out.

cool breeze wrote:I agree there are some big question marks for Detroit this coming season but i do not agree that the loss of Pope and Morris should be the primary reasons. Last season's roster had big time chemistry issues because the team has too many slackers occupying the starting positions. The biggest slackers were AD and RJ although Reggie was injured so maybe calling him a slacker is a bit harsh. My big question mark for Piston progress is how will AD play? He hasn't said much about becoming a better defender.  SVG has made his request made for Andre to change is emphasis from offense to defense but Andre has been working on offense this summer again. I think AD will be forced into making that change because the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Fans know how much he slacked on defense and will be watching him closely.

The rest of the roster is stronger in my opinion. Perimeter defense will be much better if RJ commits to doing his job in that area. He has the tools to do it but hasn't had the desire much like AD in the past. Those two players need to show the world that they are actually serious basketball players this time around. If so everything will be super cool for the Detroit Pistons and they will make the playoffs. I am getting edgy for training camp.
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Some good and maybe not so good statements from SVG in article "Kennard As Good As SVG Hoped".

Post  cool breeze on Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:29 pm

This article shows the depth of knowledge SVG really has and how he projects success with young NBA players. As I was reading this piece my excitement grew thinking Kennard would be an important part of the Piston rotation this season. But right at the end, SVG makes the comment that there are players ahead of both Kennard and Ellenson but he has confidence that if needed both could really help the team. What can we make of that last comment? Is SVG trying to tell Piston fans that he will go right back to the same system that caused the team to flounder last year. He refused to give Ellenson a fair shot. He screwed with Stanley Johnson's mind all season long making him into a fringe player. Meanwhile, Brad Stevens did the opposite with his Boston roster. He played everybody so they were all ready to contribute when called upon. SVG cannot expect Kennard and Ellenson to step up to the plate and hit a home run or winning shot at the and of a game if the sit the damn bench and are not part of the rotation. Nobody can do that. You are not in game shape. You lose your confidence. You want to be traded so you can work with a coach who will trust you enough to play you so you can make mistakes and learn from them. If SVG plays his vet fringe players big minutes and excludes his young guns, he is making a huge mistake. Remember earlier in the summer when SVG said that he planned to carve out minutes for the younger inexperienced players? Is this new interview a message he has sent that there is no way he will be playing Ellenson and Kennard next season. They are promising, have shown a lot of ability but are just not ready or as good as the other veteran roster players who have been on the fringe for their entire careers. Good luck with that. Ellenson needs to play over Leuer. Kennard needs to play over all the other bench players SVG has signed who have always been bench players playing the wing positions. Both Ellenson and Kennard were key players on their college teams. Were the fringe vet bench guys ever key players on their college team? Other NBA teams seem to have some interest in both Ellenson and Kennard. Will SVG trade them quickly to remove what he might consider a problem he might have with the fans? I do not trust the head coach or the entire coaching staff to do the right thing after Detroit's experience last season where the coaching staff made the team chemistry issue worse rather than better. How can we forget that Stan? You made no adjustments. You played the players who caused the dysfunction game after game without blinking an eye and your assistant coaches were your Yes Men puppets. Why not hire coaches who will disagree with your logic so you can get some balance and possibly make better decisions?

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ESPN says Pistons will miss the playoffs - Bad memories from last season for Piston fans were observed by others

Post  cool breeze on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:43 pm

I agree there are some big question marks for Detroit this coming season but i do not agree that the loss of Pope and Morris should be the primary reasons. Last season's roster had big time chemistry issues because the team has too many slackers occupying the starting positions. The biggest slackers were AD and RJ although Reggie was injured so maybe calling him a slacker is a bit harsh. My big question mark for Piston progress is how will AD play? He hasn't said much about becoming a better defender. SVG has made his request made for Andre to change is emphasis from offense to defense but Andre has been working on offense this summer again. I think AD will be forced into making that change because the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Fans know how much he slacked on defense and will be watching him closely.

The rest of the roster is stronger in my opinion. Perimeter defense will be much better if RJ commits to doing his job in that area. He has the tools to do it but hasn't had the desire much like AD in the past. Those two players need to show the world that they are actually serious basketball players this time around. If so everything will be super cool for the Detroit Pistons and they will make the playoffs. I am getting edgy for training camp.

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Kyrie n Weggie

Post  BallinD on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:03 pm

If Weggie can come alllllllllllll... the way back, he could be a Kyrie-lite player for us, with his ability to get to the rack and his improved 3pt shooting and his me-first attitude. Me myself, I am not a Weggie fan at all, but in the interest of objectivity he could be pretty good if all the stars line up and if he dedicates himself to getting shots for somebody other than Weggie and Dre.

Perhaps if he played with an Alpha Dog like Lebron, his ball hog, pass-to-myself mentality would be no longer a problem, but since we have no Alpha Dog, and Reggie thinks he is our Alpha Dog, that is part of the problem.

No to Kyrie though. It's too early to say what we will be like and what Avery will do for our chemistry and perimeter defense, but I will say it is intriguing, so there is that. Not sold on SVG's newfound stated flexibility with lineups, rotations, calling plays... either, so there is that.

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