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Naysayers

Post  Go Stones! on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:15 pm

You guys are all counting out Jackson. I tend to think Jackson will be just short of all star consideration and SVG will trade his @$$ while his value is high.
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The Pistons minus RJ is the NBA's version of addition by subtraction

Post  deusXango on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:24 pm

lemonpen wrote:Cool, you can count me in as on one of those non-believers who is feeling a smidge better with this devastating news.
Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad

I figure the probability of watching this team play sof thisme version of TEAM oriented ball just increased a tick.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not becoming giddy but, one less minute of Rjax likely means one more minute for a pass first PG, opening the door for a more highly involved, highly motivated roster.  

Who knows, maybe there will be no need for a team meeting in the first month of the season.  dance dance dance
Now that the facts are out in the open where even the blind can see and the insane know that it's foolishness to keep mentioning Reggie Jackson as an important piece to count on for this, all too important, season to be a success and move on. The time for a realistic trade passed when the Rubio trade didn't take place (for whatever reason), now it's about getting Reggie's contract off the Pistons payroll. It's time to forgive yesterdays blunders by SVG on the bench and Drummonds on the floor....if we refuse to look optimistically toward the future with a great, open-minded coach and a young, athletic center then we're doomed. SVG can change his coaching staff and approach to game management; Drummond can improve on his free throws and interior defense. These are easily doable, if only the two most important Pistons start earning their money!

If this is to be the defensive dreadnaught, that many say is our only way to excel, then start with playing our best defenders and offensive players in the rotation. Every great defensive team that the Pistons have fielded had some great offensive players mixed in; I don't recall any unbalanced championship teams and I don't recall any teams that were overstocked with great defenders. In my humble opinion, fans should stop going along with the media driven drivel where our players shortcomings are highlighted, but we've seen starting lineups that were ineffective due to greater shortcomings, and came to love the very inept, mediocre players who were responsible for the disappointing play witnessed from game-to-game. Let's think out the box and try something innovative....let's take full advantage of this weak east everybody's been talking about; it can be done 'ya know.

STOP IT! Talking about Bradley's lack of height as a great defensive SG when he's probably our best candidate for a two-way PG....he can damn sure slow down/stop the elite PG's in the NBA. Talking about Kennard's lack of defensive abilities, because he's an unproven rookie....this isn't your typical, green, 18-19 year old, fresh out of high school, who's only experience is AAU ball; this is probably the best long range sniper on the team and one of the more intelligent players we have. Type casting Leuer as a forward exclusively when for all intents he's the most logical backup for Drummond (he gives the Pistons a whole new dynamic to be dealt with by opposing defenses)....type casting Moreland as a bench center and not fully recognizing the grit, energy, and defensive instincts he displayed this summer (Summer League means that even though he's signed to a pro contract, he can't play on a pro level); who better to pair with Drummond? Talk about a starter at a discount. This guy could be a Morris upgrade! Talking about the "holes" in Harris's game is shameful; he needs a 3 point shot, he's not a great two way player, he has a mediocre defensive game....this is the most effective, efficient scorer, we have, who happens to lead the team in scoring. I don't see why the "doom and gloom" outlook because of Reggie's absence....STOP IT!

If I had the privilege of SVG's ear, I'd suggest the following lineup to be considered, and give him reasons why.

Center Drummond/Leuer/Boban
Power Forward Moreland/Ellenson/Tolliver
Small Forward Harris/Johnson
Shooting Guard Kennard/Bullock
Point Guard Bradley/Galloway/Smith
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I too hope for something different and better

Post  Sparma on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:04 pm

Sounds like you've been living an interesting life, BallinD. I could wrap my mind around the prospect of being back with an old girlfriend, until you included the bad breath and the warts, not to mention the cheating. Dang, and that's a way of preparing us for the season ahead?

We're not able to trade Bradley yet, right? When we can (December?), I'd approach Cleveland with a Drummond & Bradley for Thompson & Shumpert & Nets pick deal. Too lazy to see if the salaries work. But can we please get that pick?!! Maybe by then, Reggie will be setting the court on fire and we can include him instead of Avery.

BallinD wrote:Guys, I think I can speak for most on the forum to say we are NOT casual fans.  But for me as a not casual fan, the last thing I am interested in seeing is Dre, Weggie and to a much lesser extent, Tobias, though I wanna see his usage increase and he become the ballhandler in some more P&R sets if SVG in his blathering wisdom sees fit to gather low-hanging fruit.

What I am interested in seeing is Kennard, Bradley, Boban, Bullock (cutting and screening) SJ (I haven't given up hope).  It's like getting back together with the old girlfriend, it's just never quite the same, even if you both want it to be.  I see Dre and Weggie as old girlfriends who cheated/slacked/refused to put out and are now back with a song and a smile.  

Mostly no thanks!  If they play above replacement level, then I will take them back with open arms, and try to forget, but otherwise, it is "meh,"  I'm from Missouri and I'm not really too excited about being shown, because I have lost faith in you.

Is losing faith from a fan's perspective analagous to losing chemistry with teamates and then trying to re-manufacture it, trying to rejigger a silk purse into a sow's ear.  That didn't work last year and we have the Meat and Potatoes guy, Mr. SVG mostly to thank for that, with an assist from Dre and Weggie.

I feel that way toward Andre and Weggie and maybe it ain't right, but that's how I feel.  Don't pour gravy on that stuffing;  I don't want none.

I wanna believe the deviated septum allergies and 20 pounds was the culprit in Andre's underwhelming effort, but the realist in me knows it was not.  He has no fire in his belly, he is still pining publicly for Weggie and SVG's "2 play" offense:  P&R and Fire at Will!  Maybe that is easiest for him to master, so there is that.

I wanna believe that it was the knee tendinitis that caused the ball to stick to Weggie's hand and made him refuse to pass, and yes that can explain why he could not defend, or maybe it's the conditioning and asthma issues and then there is the quit on the team issue which OKC also alluded to as he was on the way out of the door there.  All of those issues are like a wart, bad breath and runny nose in that girl who want's to get back in.  No Thank You!

I could be wrong.  I know I'm in the minority, but that never bothered me before.   I like Bullock's game if he can stay healthy.  I love Kennard's game if it translates to the Pros, which I am pretty sure it will.  I love Bradley's grit and grind and overall spirit to fight and win...spirit I don't see in Dre and Weggie, nor never hear articulated.  I love Boban, period, a grossly underutilized resource.  I like Moreland from what I've seen and wanna see a lot more of his long, bouncy, spirited, fighting, perimeter defending and rim protecting self.

Do they have warts?  Bad Breath?   Runny nose?  Most likely, but since I haven't seen them parade those failings up and down the court while we are in a race to the playoffs, I would much rather cheer for them than the old girl.  There is a saying, better the devil you know, than the one you don't know.  I tend to disagree with that point of emphasis.  Does this mean I am more optimistic in the new devil, or pessimistic about the old devil?

Time will tell.  I'd like to eat my stuffing with gravy on it.  I'd like some meat too, and that is SVG.  He is the Turkey, literally and figuratively.  No telling what he will do, which old warts he will flash at us and which new ones he will blather about.
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Power Ranking In Reverse

Post  WTF on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:02 pm

5. Detroit Pistons

The Detroit Pistons haven’t been the same since the days of Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton. LeBron James used a 48-point game in Game 5 of the Eastern Conference Finals in 2007 to end their run.

Since then, the Pistons have been a walking example of mediocrity.Their fans have had absolutely nothing to cheer for, except for getting swept in the first round against the Cleveland Cavaliers last season. They have some young talent in Reggie Jackson, Andre Drummond and Stanley Johnson, but it seems to be a car without a direction.  

Like most teams in the NBA, they seem to be stuck in that black hole, where they won’t be bad enough to land a mega-star or good enough to seriously contend for an NBA title. It’s an awful place to be as a fan too, because you know your team isn’t going to compete to win it all. Hang tight, Pistons’ fans, the suffering isn’t ending any time soon.

Apparently the folks over at SI.com thinks very poorly of the Pistons organization as a whole.  "However" they do make a great point about the direction or non direction of this team.  As much as I wanted Joe out of here we at least kind of knew what insane thinking was as far as roster goes though he was an idiot and I mean major idiot for his coach hiring's after Flip.    

How horrible SVG must be as both coach and pres, he can't find 15 competent players to run the 2 plays in his offense.  I wouldn't be oppose to a complete house cleaning starting at the very top and working it way down to the Water Boy.
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Stuffing and Gravy

Post  BallinD on Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:46 pm

Guys, I think I can speak for most on the forum to say we are NOT casual fans. But for me as a not casual fan, the last thing I am interested in seeing is Dre, Weggie and to a much lesser extent, Tobias, though I wanna see his usage increase and he become the ballhandler in some more P&R sets if SVG in his blathering wisdom sees fit to gather low-hanging fruit.

What I am interested in seeing is Kennard, Bradley, Boban, Bullock (cutting and screening) SJ (I haven't given up hope).  It's like getting back together with the old girlfriend, it's just never quite the same, even if you both want it to be.  I see Dre and Weggie as old girlfriends who cheated/slacked/refused to put out and are now back with a song and a smile.  

Mostly no thanks!  If they play above replacement level, then I will take them back with open arms, and try to forget, but otherwise, it is "meh,"  I'm from Missouri and I'm not really too excited about being shown, because I have lost faith in you.

Is losing faith from a fan's perspective analagous to losing chemistry with teamates and then trying to re-manufacture it, trying to rejigger a silk purse into a sow's ear.  That didn't work last year and we have the Meat and Potatoes guy, Mr. SVG mostly to thank for that, with an assist from Dre and Weggie.

I feel that way toward Andre and Weggie and maybe it ain't right, but that's how I feel.  Don't pour gravy on that stuffing;  I don't want none.

I wanna believe the deviated septum allergies and 20 pounds was the culprit in Andre's underwhelming effort, but the realist in me knows it was not.  He has no fire in his belly, he is still pining publicly for Weggie and SVG's "2 play" offense:  P&R and Fire at Will!  Maybe that is easiest for him to master, so there is that.

I wanna believe that it was the knee tendinitis that caused the ball to stick to Weggie's hand and made him refuse to pass, and yes that can explain why he could not defend, or maybe it's the conditioning and asthma issues and then there is the quit on the team issue which OKC also alluded to as he was on the way out of the door there.  All of those issues are like a wart, bad breath and runny nose in that girl who want's to get back in.  No Thank You!

I could be wrong.  I know I'm in the minority, but that never bothered me before.   I like Bullock's game if he can stay healthy.  I love Kennard's game if it translates to the Pros, which I am pretty sure it will.  I love Bradley's grit and grind and overall spirit to fight and win...spirit I don't see in Dre and Weggie, nor never hear articulated.  I love Boban, period, a grossly underutilized resource.  I like Moreland from what I've seen and wanna see a lot more of his long, bouncy, spirited, fighting, perimeter defending and rim protecting self.

Do they have warts?  Bad Breath?   Runny nose?  Most likely, but since I haven't seen them parade those failings up and down the court while we are in a race to the playoffs, I would much rather cheer for them than the old girl.  There is a saying, better the devil you know, than the one you don't know.  I tend to disagree with that point of emphasis.  Does this mean I am more optimistic in the new devil, or pessimistic about the old devil?

Time will tell.  I'd like to eat my stuffing with gravy on it.  I'd like some meat too, and that is SVG.  He is the Turkey, literally and figuratively.  No telling what he will do, which old warts he will flash at us and which new ones he will blather about.


Last edited by BallinD on Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops)
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:09 pm

lemonpen wrote:Cool, you can count me in as on one of those non-believers who is feeling a smidge better with this devastating news.
Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad

I figure the probability of watching this team play some version of TEAM oriented ball just increased a tick.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not becoming giddy but, one less minute of Rjax likely means one more minute for a pass first PG, opening the door for a more highly involved, highly motivated roster.  

Who knows, maybe there will be no need for a team meeting in the first month of the season.  dance dance dance

Yes Lemonpen there are more non-believers than Piston management might think. I can't believe that SVG believes this current roster will produce the team that he can have success with. I cannot get past the idea that he might start AD and RJ. You can hide one horrible defender but not two and both backup centers have no proven history. Of the three centers I like Moreland the best as a potential two way player. So if I am right about Eric being the most effective center, the Pistons might be in big trouble. Plus there is no indication that Moreland has a chance in hell to be anywhere in SVG's plans other than at the end of the bench. So we have Andre and Boban. Looks like an old James Bond movie with two slow moving monsters working for the U.S.S.R. to bust the head of Bond on some ski slope.

Yet the center position on the Pistons is secondary to the potential damage Reggie Jackson might do to the team chemistry this season if he is not traded. WTF is so convinced that RJ will be traded I am getting hopeful as well that this might happen. But what team would be stupid enough to take him and could he pass a physical? RJ is no longer a good fit for this Piston team. The best thing Detroit could do is put out a notice that RJ is not ready to return because of injury.

dX I also got excited about your idea of installing Bradley and Kennard in the starting five. Bradley plays point guard and Kennard could get his feet wet at least for the first 5 games that Bullock will be suspended. SVG could start Smith or Galloway. Of the two I would prefer Galloway who is a far better defender than either Smith or Kennard. Detroit would have the same issues starting Smith. Ish plays hard unlike Reggie on defense but there is no way he can match up on the defensive end with starting caliber NBA guards. For the Pistons to win this season, they will need to win with defense. They have Bradley, Johnson, Galloway, Moreland, Tolliver, Bullock who will get after people on the defensive end. Harris needs to up his defensive game this season and I believe he will get a lot better on that end of the floor if he is not playing next to soft players. This is a big year for Harris. He needs to prove who he is as a two way player. If he gets his defensive game up another notch, the Pistons should click.

I think that Andre Drummond could be more successful coming off the bench. If he did that, he doesn't play against the same centers who always make a complete fool of him. He could dominate the boards.

Starting lineup
Center - Boban or Moreland unless a big trade goes down
Power forward - Harris
Small forward - Johnson
Point guard - Bradley-Galloway-Kennard-Smith
2 guard - Kennard - Bradley - Galloway - Bullock - Johnson
Small forward - Johnson-Harris-Bullock
Power forward - Harris-Ellenson-Johnson-Tolliver-Leuer

2nd unit:
Center - AD-Boban-Moreland
power forward - Ellenson-Tolliver-Leuer-Johnson-Harris
Point guard - Smith-Galloway-Kennard
2 guard - Galloway-Kennard-Bullock-Johnson
Small forward - Bullock-Harris-Johnson

The Pistons have several players who can play two or more positions this season. SVG will need to play those players in many different situations depending on matchups. SVG will need to be the most creative coach the Pistons have ever seen make this thing work well. It appears that the only easy out in the Eastern conference for this current Piston roster might be Atlanta. But who knows. You can't teach old dogs new tricks especially on the defensive end. Two our our current starters are among the worst defenders in the league. One of those starters has not recovered from his knee issues. SVG will need some special magic. Too bad the owner nixed some trade opportunities that had been set up earlier. But AD usually starts the season off with some spirit. The trick will be to trade him before Christmas if no trade goes down before then. I won't count SVG out just yet. He might surprise us and not play his big contract guys so much knowing he can win with them.




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From SVG's Arse...

Post  Oracle on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:56 pm

Wise wrote:What's funny is while some here think we're on the brinks of something great there are others on the outside looking in that think we're still on the low end of rebuilding.
Who's right?

Who knows, that's why I think too much optimism is bad, but too much pessimism is just as bad.

The truth is that this situation is really hard to figure, and looking beyond Reggie, Drummond & Harris, it's hard to get too optimistic about a group of new guys, has been's, never was, rookies and chumps waiting on their next injury... Coached by a guy feeding us stuff out of his candy ass!

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This Is Funny

Post  WTF on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:01 pm

Detroit Pistons
THE GOOD: The Pistons have a chance to right some of their recent wrongs. Their trade for Avery Bradley could prove to be a meaningful move. If he has a breakout year and Detroit locks him up long term, he'll soften the blow of overpaying for Reggie Jackson.

THE BAD: The saddest thing about the Pistons is that they once appeared to have the pieces to build a playoff squad. They drafted Andre Drummond, brought in Stan Van Gundy and signed Reggie Jackson. The climb, however, halted there. As great as Van Gundy is, no funny quip or quick fix can change the trajectory of his team. Drummond is still a historically bad free throw shooter and Jackson still dribbles the air out of the ball. And Tobias Harris and Jon Leuer are solid players, but don't exactly move the needle.
  
THE UGLY: This list is about the NBA's downtrodden teams, so let's go to a dark place: Josh Smith, who the Pistons waived in 2015, is still owed more than $15 million over the next three seasons. — DeAntae Prince 


What's funny is while some here think we're on the brinks of something great there are others on the outside looking in that think we're still on the low end of rebuilding.
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RJAX

Post  lemonpen on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:14 pm

Cool, you can count me in as on one of those non-believers who is feeling a smidge better with this devastating news.
Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

I figure the probability of watching this team play some version of TEAM oriented ball just increased a tick. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not becoming giddy but, one less minute of Rjax likely means one more minute for a pass first PG, opening the door for a more highly involved, highly motivated roster.

Who knows, maybe there will be no need for a team meeting in the first month of the season. dance dance dance
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Preparation For Trade

Post  WTF on Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:34 pm

I'm telling you Reggie will be gone before the season starts I'm 99.9% sure it's going down. Like I said with SVG having 2 years remaining on his current contract he knows he can't wait this season out and become a Lame Duck next season. SVG needs this team to succeed now!

Just look at the acquisitions of Bradley and Galloway and the drafting of Kennard. True SVG needed to replace KCP so Bradley made since kinda but why give up Morris IMO who was your best defensive big player. My guess is that when Reggie is moved it'll be for another big in some semi blockbuster move that might include another Pistons player or two.

I don't know the who's your guess would be as good as mine, but I would look at what team needs to move a big from their starting unit for the soul purpose of clearing cap space and willing to take the remaining 2 years of Reggie contract on.

We don't need a Big Three what we're in need of is a Steady Five. My guess is that SVG can't be that dense to see beyond his own imaginary forest and know that Andre and Reggie is not the answer. He would like to move both but that's a big task so the best thing for him is to take pressure off Andre and that will come in the form of whatever big he gets in return for Reggie.

We're going to be shocked no matter who it is, I'll equated to when we picked up Sheed
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Love Don's observations

Post  deusXango on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:02 am

cool breeze wrote:So all of you who hate the way RJ plays anyway, this might be good news. What about those who love Reggie and have been "if'n" him to death? Maybe we will be seeing a lot of Bradley and Galloway at the point. I'd think now is the perfect time to see what a starting backcourt of Bradley and Kennard would look like (keep in mind Bullock is suspended the first 5 games), that's if SVG is determined to be competitive. How is Smith the forgotten man? Piston defense would be much stronger with those two getting big minutes at that spot and that is what SVG says he wants. How will SVG handle this situation? Will he play the contract game instead of doing the right thing again??? What if RJ is no better physically then he was when he played last season. If I were him, I would sit out this entire season and not come back until he 100% if that is possible. Most likely the Pistons knew that RJ could not pass a physical which prevented any trade opportunities. My question then is why in hell as Piston management been hyping Reggie's return. Let's not forget SVG is management! Was it to sell season tickets???
For me, the most powerful observation Don made was "Until RJ shows that he can play at a high level on both ends of the court he is only hurting his team and creating team chemistry issues." This is more important than Drummonds improvement as a big man, the development of our youth, or even if Reggie's ready to go or not, it's about what has SVG learned and what type of coach he really is today. Do we want/need a coach that does the same thing over and over while expecting different results? Is this what we want to call "a great coach" or used to be good coach?  











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Quick Stuff

Post  WTF on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Reggie: Doesn't sound like the knee is ready as he's being limited to practicing only once a day. Maybe it's part of the plan to get him traded so they don't want to risk injury. Shocked

New Arena: Man I hate I'm no longer in the D. I'm going to visit that arena before the season is over with since I'm thinking about coming home for a Lions game. hehe

DACA: Can they just leave these young folks alone please facepalm

What I'm really hating right now is not seeing games (Lions, Wolverines)
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SVG's comments about Reggie Jackson reveals a lot to me about his health - No way he will be in basketball shape to start the season

Post  cool breeze on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:55 pm

I know a little bit about running marathons. Playing basketball at the NBA level for the starters who play a lot of minutes must be about as hard on the body as running 26 miles. One game getting hit and running full speed, stopping and starting etc is mind blowing. You have to be in fantastic physical condition to play with the best players in the league. That is if you are a player who plays defense with high energy. To think that Jackson can be ready to play when the regular season starts if he has not played any basketball now for months or since way before the end of last season, is not going to happen. Reggie was so out of shape when he returned after hurting his knee last season that he could never get his mojo back. If we can believe what SVG said about Reggie not having played any basketball but instead is doing physical therapy type exercises, what kind of stamina will RJ have when the games begin? Now he will be sitting out at least one practice a day in training camp. That is where players are supposed to tune up their bodies and get in proper basketball condition. Just making that statement SVG is telling everyone not to count on Reggie Jackson coming back at full strength. Will SVG be satisfied with Reggie playing defense like he did last season after his comeback? This is a joke. Why not just tell the fans that Reggie is still injured and his return date as a full time player is still up in the air. Although a lot of the top NBA players do not participate much in the pre season games, being that Reggie played so poorly after his return last season, to me at least it would be a very important thing for Reggie Jackson to be at full strength at the start of training camp. In today's game all the star players are extremely fit before training camp begins. Reggie will be out of basketball shape and stay out of basketball shape right up to the start of the regular season. If he does that his minutes should be regulated as well and perhaps they should not exceed 5 minutes per half. Until RJ shows that he can play at a high level on both ends of the court he is only hurting his team and creating team chemistry issues.

So all of you who hate the way RJ plays anyway, this might be good news. Maybe we will be seeing a lot of Bradley and Galloway at the point. Piston defense would be much stronger with those two getting big minutes at that spot and that is what SVG says he wants. How will SVG handle this situation? Will he play the contract game instead of doing the right thing again??? What if RJ is no better physically then he was when he played last season. If I were him, I would sit out this entire season and not come back until he 100% if that is possible. Most likely the Pistons knew that RJ could not pass a physical which prevented any trade opportunities. My question then is why in hell as Piston management been hyping Reggie's return. Was it to sell season tickets???

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What is the deal on Reggie?

Post  Oracle on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:48 pm

He's had damn near a whole year to get his knee back in order, why in the world would he not be able to practice like anybody else?

I hope this isn't Reggie playing a game to milk all of the possible tension out of the situation, the dude should be good to go by now!

On another note, good to see Michael Gbinije getting a shot to ride the bench in Golden State. At least that coach actually gives rookies and youngsters the opportunity to prove themselves.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:00 pm

WTF wrote:I think with Magic in place with the Lakers and his input KCP will fare a lot better.   If the Lakers are smart they will turn KCP loose and get him back in his comfort zone.  In LA KCP won't be tasked with trying to become a shooter and will be told to attack more.  

Bradley issue are far bigger than KCP not because Bradley will be perplexed by SVG 2 play system (P&R, Fire At Will) it'll be because he will not be able to function in an offense that has Reggie playing point.  

WTF great description of SVG's offense last year "TWO PLAY SYSTEM". It drove me mad. I wanted to throw something at my television screen. The offense was designed for idiots. So that is what SVG thought of his players. He thought that he was surrounded by idiots much like Dr. Evil believed. Maybe this year SVG should buy another animal and name him Mr. Bicklesworth. Maybe he could find a albino rat terrier and hold him close to his chest while he is coaching. This will prevent SVG from throwing up his arms when he gets upset after his players actually forget one of this two plays. As for the Piston defense will the coach use AD as a rover again. He does what he likes. Nobody questions the franchise player. I sure can't figure out why he switches of his man to defend a small guard who is already being defended. That is what the Rover does. This year AD's nickname will be the Rover. He travels lightly. Nobody knows what he will do. He is a very important man. Reggie is the Invisible Man and got that name earlier in his career for be AWOL on defense. How does the masterful coach hide two of his starters on defense. Maybe that is why he made the trade for Bradley.

WE all have a natural tendency to think positive about the new season. We want to believe that returning players will lose their defects through hard work. But in both Reggie and Andre's case, they have the same thing in common. Both believe they are so good on offense that it doesn't matter if they are inept on defense. Lucky for them Piston management believed this as well and signed them to insane contracts. The two players management hypes the most are the loose cannons who are so interested in themselves that they will not bend when it comes to at least trying to give an honest effort to learn the fundamentals of how to play defense. Maybe SVG will have only one request for his star players this time around. Please will you just put your arms up when your man his the ball? Please don't let your arms drag on the the floor when your man goes up for a shot. SVG will look bad as a coach if that happens again.


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KCP-Bradley

Post  WTF on Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:06 pm

I think with Magic in place with the Lakers and his input KCP will fare a lot better. If the Lakers are smart they will turn KCP loose and get him back in his comfort zone. In LA KCP won't be tasked with trying to become a shooter and will be told to attack more.

Bradley issue are far bigger than KCP not because Bradley will be perplexed by SVG 2 play system (P&R, Fire At Will) it'll be because he will not be able to function in an offense that has Reggie playing point.
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Things to watch with KCP & Bradley... Wallace & Stephenson

Post  Oracle on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:54 pm

If we were going to lose KCP, I can't think of many scenario's better than us ending up with Bradley

It's WAY too early to tell how this all plays out, but the financials are a sure fire win in the short term. Unfortunately we aren't supposed to be building for the short term this deep into SVG's tenure, but I'll take this small win.

The cautionary tales of Ben Wallace & Lance Stephenson should be watched closely. Both players and their new employers underestimated the effect on their play of the system they came from and the players they played with.

Big Ben fared a bit better than Lance, who was nowhere near the player he was with the Pacers ever again, but Ben wasn't the Ben Wallace he was with the Pistons.

There are some aspects of Bradley's game that should travel well, but the whole of his game may or may not work as well in SVG's system and with our supporting cast. If enough of his game fails to travel, it will cause the parts that do to suffer.

Not saying this will happen, but it is something to consider.

The same goes for KCP. While the Lakers are a team with a lot higher upside than the Pistons, they're a ways away from it, and their system is radically different. He faces the same problem Bradley faces in a different way.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming season... stay tuned.
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Stan Van Gundy came to the Pistons to help establish a new identify modeled after the Bad Boys and Big Ben's going to work theme. But the Pistons instead became a cream puff team loaded with weak defensive players.

Post  cool breeze on Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:50 pm

I think he is almost comical how SVG now is beating the drum for his players to suck it up and become a top defensive team. It better happen this season but how can it when too many players with the highest price tags a considered weak defenders and low IQ players by their peers? If SVG had been serious about creating a top tier team based on keeping scores low and winning with outstanding defense being that he had no star offensive players, then why in hell did he give Jackson and Drummond such large contracts? Both players are among the worst defenders in NBA history. Both are low basketball IQ players. Neither can hold their own on defense. To top it off SVG signed the 28 year scrub Leuer to an insane contract.

Players who cannot defend worth crap current salary

Drummond $23,775,506
(Indiana has three centers Al Jefferson $9,769,920, Miles Turner $2,569,920
Ike Anigbogu $950,000 who all make around half of what our soft AD makes. Who would you rather have starting the new season Turner or Drummond. Forget about the other two players who are better than Andre by a mile)

Jackson $16,000,000
Why bother providing contract information on other point guards who can all defend better than Reggie? Every starting point guard can defend better than Reggie. How can the Pistons hide him on the perimeter even with Bradley and Johnson working their butts off?

Jon Leuer $10,497,319
SVG and his GM must have been on a pig out eating binge in order to have gained so much weight in the gut since they arrived in Detroit. You never feel good when you are obese. You don't have much energy when you have to carry around 100 or so extra pounds but that still cannot explain why they signed this man for anything more than $3million. He was sitting on the Suns bench. There were no other offers. SVG says he believes in a strong defense. Well Leuer got his ass handed to him in the last game by a skinny but quick guy named Arron Gordon on Orlando. Leuer came in and got his ass kicked in the first half but SVG still had faith in him so in the 2nd half Gordon really showed him who is boss. Nothing seemed to register with SVG after that game where it was clear that Leuer got beat in every way and showed that his upper body is just not strong enough to compete with real NBA players. Oh I forgot SVG wanted better 3 point shooting from the previous season. How much would it have cost SVG to have resigned Tolliver at that time? What if worry about is how SVG operates. He will have to play Leuer because he gave him $10,497,319. Simple as that Piston fans. Why start doing things the right way now. Ellenson should be playing ahead of Leuer but SVG must play his mistake.

So that makes three mistakes we will watch all season long. Management will hype the Pistons chances of making the 8th spot. They will say we have an All Star in AD. Oh he is so good. His potential is off the charts. But wouldn't you all think our chances would be much better with Indiana's three centers for half the price of our sweet shooting free throw wizard? Tom Gores loves the way he dunks the basketball. He gets such a kick out of it so that is the way things will be in Piston land. Good luck to all the hard working players who do have some ability to defend. They will need it playing with SVG's hand picked wimps. The only starting center that our All Star center might dominate is Dedmon who most likely with start at center for Atlanta. AD will get up for that game.

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Michigan

Post  Sparma on Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:27 pm

Looking good! To think that this is supposed to be a transitional season, after losing so many starters (most to the NFL!). I'm hoping the QB drama's an aberration.

Oracle wrote:Coming back from two pick 6's, and sporting a VERY fast defense, they've taken total control over the #17 Florida Gators!

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Michigan is impressing me!!!

Post  Oracle on Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:46 pm

Coming back from two pick 6's, and sporting a VERY fast defense, they've taken total control over the #17 Florida Gators!

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:01 pm

[quote="Oracle"]This is an interesting article that made me think as they went into some detail about how KCP & Bradley are the same, but also how they're different.

It's a good read, but I also think hat like most players on good teams, Bradley benefits from that in some aspects of his game.
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/9/2/16194214/avery-bradley-will-bring-more-versatility-and-efficiency-to-the-offense?src=rss wrote:

The Pistons new shooting guard is more than just another KCP.






[size=Avery Bradley is one of the best on-ball defenders in the league and has been for the past few years. When he was not selected to an All-NBA defensive team this past season,
[/size]
Bradley’s defense is top-notch, this we all know, it’s his offensive game that’s a bit of an unproven commodity. His game has come on strong the past two seasons. Last year he averaged a career high in points and three point shooting and when Stan Van Gundy traded for his services, he did so for his offensive game just as much as his leadership skills and defensive prowess.

To get a better understanding of Bradley’s role next season, reviewing KCP’s 2016-17 season with the Pistons should be helpful. They operated a similar percentage of their plays in most of the offensive play-types featured. But while the “Bradley’s a better version of KCP” and “KCP’s a younger version of Avery Bradley” comments have been said countless times, that’s a bit of a lazy comparison. For comparisons sake, we’ll highlight some of the similarities but mostly their differences in the pick and roll, off cuts, in hand-offs, off screens and while spotting up.


I enjoyed this article as well Oracle. What wasn't mentioned that I hope becomes an important ingredient of the Piston's half court offense is to completely change the small forward's role. Morris was a spot up statue on the wing last season. Johnson is a gifted screener and plays best with he doesn't stand in place. Using the wide body of Johnson to set screens for Bradley and I hope Kennard will get the entire offense looking more interesting. Both Bradley and Johnson thrive when they move without the basketball. Johnson needs to move not stand to get his timing down when he does shoot the basketball. I would believe that Johnson will not be used like SVG used Morris when he played small forward. They are different type players. Johnson is a strong driver or was in college. He just needs to learn how to dish or finish at the rim better. With an offense featuring more player and ball movement both Bradley and Johnson will shine. But how will our point guards adapt to this style? Imagine Reggie making the first pass quickly to either Bradley/Kennard or to Johnson/Bullock and then Reggie moves without the basketball creating a bigger threat without the ball than he had with the ball. Both Bradley and Johnson see the floor well and also believe in screening with Johnson especially effective setting screens in the painted area. This season if SVG can create the best situation for his current players, I visualize more exciting games with our players now getting much easier shots. This standing around and with the emphasis on point guards creating something with no real plan in mind usually results on point guard over penetration into traffic with four players standing in place because they have no idea what in hell the point guard is trying to accomplish. And the point guards don't know either. They just saw an opening which the defense allowed them to see and entered the trap.

We cannot forget that we have another ace offensive player who has a variety of offensive weapons and that guy is Harris. If Harris plays with guys like Bradley and Johnson, Johnson can take his pick on which teammate he sets a hard screen for in the half court set. Johnson just needs to have the freedom to create positive situations for his teammates and then stay out of foul trouble being he will be so active as a screener.

Where does AD fit in with this offensive system. He is not a guy who can draw out the opposing center because he has no outside game. AD will need to be placed on the opposite side of the action relating to Johnson's screens and crash the boards. AD could really benefit with easy put backs if he embraces his role. The offense features action with Bradley/Kennard - Jackson/Smith/Galloway - Harris with his ability to drive or shoot it from distance and Johnson who will have to be the work dog player who will create the openings. And Johnson could benefit with more open looks as he rolls of his screens. He could then drive it strong to the hoop or shoot the mid range jump shot which I hope is softer this time around.

If SVG brings out the same old loser offense where his skill players stand in place, he should be fired. I can't imagine he will do that. I believe the owner had some influence in the way the offense worked last season. AD wanted touches to show off his baseline hook. SVG caved in and that might be why we saw so much dribbling around by the point guards. SVG is not a dumb coach. He has never been a dumb coach but last season he looked like a dumb coach.

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Avery Bradley will bring more versatility and efficiency to the offense

Post  Oracle on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:55 pm

This is an interesting article that made me think as they went into some detail about how KCP & Bradley are the same, but also how they're different.

It's a good read, but I also think hat like most players on good teams, Bradley benefits from that in some aspects of his game.
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/9/2/16194214/avery-bradley-will-bring-more-versatility-and-efficiency-to-the-offense?src=rss wrote:

The Pistons new shooting guard is more than just another KCP.





Avery Bradley is one of the best on-ball defenders in the league and has been for the past few years. When he was not selected to an All-NBA defensive team this past season, players like CJ McCollum, Devin BookerDamian Lillard and Jamal Murray all tweeted their opposition.

Bradley’s defense is top-notch, this we all know, it’s his offensive game that’s a bit of an unproven commodity. His game has come on strong the past two seasons. Last year he averaged a career high in points and three point shooting and when Stan Van Gundy traded for his services, he did so for his offensive game just as much as his leadership skills and defensive prowess.

To get a better understanding of Bradley’s role next season, reviewing KCP’s 2016-17 season with the Pistons should be helpful. They operated a similar percentage of their plays in most of the offensive play-types featured. But while the “Bradley’s a better version of KCP” and “KCP’s a younger version of Avery Bradley” comments have been said countless times, that’s a bit of a lazy comparison. For comparisons sake, we’ll highlight some of the similarities but mostly their differences in the pick and roll, off cuts, in hand-offs, off screens and while spotting up.
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Happy and Sad at the Same Time

Post  WTF on Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:04 am

My mind is really going now not only was the NBA great back then so was the college game. The big man game was a thing of beauty to watch now we're stuck with big men that play like who knows what!!!!

I'm thinking about all the great center matchups we saw on both levels
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DRUGS

Post  WTF on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:52 am

I thought Bedford would have had a great NBA career damn shame what happens when athlete get involve with drugs. Len Bias, Bedford, Tarpley. Micheal Ray. I do wonder how great they've could have been especially Micheal Ray he was MJ before there was a MJ damn shame.

I love 80's and early 90's basketball but it wasn't all good, thinking back on it now weed and coke did a number on a lot of good players.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:49 pm

deusXango wrote:
WTF wrote:We know winners when we see them they're easily identifiable because they came from winning programs, been winners most of their lives and are fundamentally equipped before they even put on a NBA uniform.
This brings to mind an inescapable fact; what player on this young team that fit that description better than Luke Kennard? Why do I silently dread and wonder if he'll be playing in Grand Rapids, because he doesn't have experience.

Why draft a player, but will not allow him to play? Why sign a player to a professional team, but question his abilities, endurance, or I.Q. to grasp the fine points of the pro game by playing, especially when you can see those type players have potential to be outstanding contributors, and/or, the winning pedigree?
Don made a statement that took me back to the late, great, Chuck Day, when talking about playing low I.Q players vs. players who were mentally tough and wanted to win...he had no fear from above and didn't politic to justify running sub-standard lineups out on the floor; William Bedford, anybody remember him? Chuck chose to sit his overpriced ass on the bench, in spite of the fact he was Jack McCloskey's favorite, because he signed him to that ridiculous contract.

dX that is why Zeke had such high respect for Chuck. He did the right thing. We at least lived at a time when coaches and players did the right thing when thinking of the Bad Boys and Chuck and his staff of assistant coaches. What a great time for all Piston fans. NBA TV had a show I watched recently featuring the impact of Zeke in the community. He said he had a higher calling to be a servant for the City of Detroit when he was not playing basketball. I had no idea how much he gave with his time when it came to young kids and the impact he had for doing it. The show featured Chris Webber, Steve Smith, Dennis Smith, and Grant Hill. All told stories about Isiah's impact for them when they were kids. He tool the time to do the right thing for hundreds of kids all the time.

Why he is not a bigger part of the current Piston organization is crazy. I want him making the critical decisions about the future of the Pistons. For sure there would be no question that Kennard would get every opportunity to win playing time. I really think that SVG caved in to the pressure Tom Gores might have created as he made the mistake of protecting his franchise player last season, I have reviewed the matchups AD will have with opposing centers in the Eastern conference this season. Five seasons and he is still at square one relating to his basketball IQ. He is easy prey for high IQ centers with limited athletic ability. Going back to Zeke, I can't imagine that he would have tolerated a player making $20 Plus million a year blowing off the head coach with the shooting coach situation when he has the worst free throw shooting percentage in the NBA. If you shoot so badly you should be humble and maybe believe you don't have all the answers. But for the owner after AD showed again in the last half of last season that he had even become a worse free throw shooter than the season before this still was not enough to convince him that it would be a mistake to OK the trade opportunities that the Pistons had. Imagine if we now had the starting center for the Clippers. Jordan would be a great fit for the Motor City. SVG did not want to coach AD again. There is no doubt about that. It will be interesting to see how things go down in training camp. AD just doesn't know that he doesn't know. How do you deal with that??

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Re: FORUM

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