FORUM

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Oracle wrote:I didn't say they were although Drummond is an All Star. My point was that they are the ONLY players, IMO, that are anywhere near capable of getting there.

Nobody has ever confused Bradley or Harris of being All Stars, and neither is even projected to be capable of getting there. They've both been in the league long enough, but both are considered complementary players, not ever stars.

That was my point, that we need to get an all star back in trade, and I don't see that as a possibility at this point.

I don't think Bradley will be our best player. He may be our most rounded and balanced player, but I hesitate to say best until I see if he can even produce in this system.

Oracle you must have missed all of the conference finals games between Cleveland and Boston or the semi finals with Boston and Washington and maybe some of Bradley's regular season games last year. Is is an outstanding two way player with a high basketball IQ. We haven't had a player like Bradley is many years. Thomas is almost a bad of a defender as Reggie Jackson. It will be very interesting to see how Boston's perimeter defense works next season without Bradley. Take a look at some of the Boston basketball talk sites. Fans are sick about losing Bradley even though the team has added one hell of a player in Hayward.

The article "Revamped backcourt ---" is pretty good. Perhaps now when teams try to stop the Pistons pick and roll play between Jackson and Drummond, Jackson will actually share the ball knowing how good Bradley is and what he can to to help hide Jackson's weaknesses on defense. And maybe and this is a real maybe Jackson will come back next season with something to prove on the defensive end. I have said it before and say it again, Reggie has all the tools to become an outstanding defender like Bradley if he had the HEART. Same is true with Drummond. Sometimes when a guy like Avery Bradley comes to a new team with slackers like Jackson and Drummond, those slackers get embarrassed to the point where they change who they had previously been as ball players.

It looks like Drummond is standing pat like last summer and is not working on his biggest weakness other than free throw shooting which is his lack of understanding and desire with his slacker mentality when it comes to defense. But who knows miracles can happen and I'll bet that SVG has the odds down after coaching both players for this long. Now there is more focus by fans on the two slackers and their tendency to hide on defense. Also, the team has other new players along with Bradley to provide more insurance that the team will not be run by slackers again. Bradley, Galloway, Tolliver, and older Johnson, Bullock, and a more mature Harris might get Jackson and Drummond motivated to the point where they might start enjoying being successful defenders. Drummond comes across the baseline leaving his man to help and block an opposing shot into the stands. The crowd screams. Drummond notices the response he gets from giving max effort. This most likely is a pipe dream and has a low chance of happening as players like Drummond at least are set in their ways. But Andre has taken some real heat this summer and is not used to being called out. This year the owner cannot protect him from the fans at least. If Jackson does not actually have a cardio issue and Drummond gives the team what is most needed, the Pistons could cause some real damage in the East. I think if they both play like last season, SVG will find them a new home with the owners blessing this time around.

I am trying to make this a positive type post for a change. The point I wanted to get across to you is that being that you have been so negative about Bradley since you found out KCP not being signed, you of all people might be shocked in a good way once the season begins and you actually see what Avery Bradley brings to this team. He is a completely different type player than KCP. I do not mean to take away anything about Pope here either. Bradley will demand that the team will play the right way. He will have a big influence on how the team prepares and what type of attitude the players bring to each game. What I don't get is how you have somehow decided that Avery Bradley is another NBA player who has reached his full potential. Bradley is already playing a a very high level unlike any of the current roster players Detroit had last season. And he always comes back showing off something new he has worked on over the summer to get even better. I guarantee that you will be very excited once you see him in a Piston uniform. What I like best about him his what the Piston coaching staff has already talked about. He has a high basketball IQ and is very consistent with his effort and approach to each game. He doesn't take plays or games off. That type of approach spreads to other players. The team had no player like Bradley last season and that is why they were not only inconsistent but ended up for the last half of the season playing slacker ball.

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For my money, trade Jackson and Leuer...give Drummond one more year

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:16 pm

cool breeze wrote:
In my opinion if either or both Jackson and Drummond are traded nobody should expect that Detroit should get an All Star player in return. The best player on the team is Avery Bradley. He is closest to being a top tier NBA player. He is a man who can excel on both ends of the floor. Harris is the 2nd best player. Without Jackson and Drummond I would anticipate that Harris would be an excellent consistent player.

My excitement and hope lies with Bradley, Johnson, Kennard, Harris, Ellenson, Moreland, Boban, Bullock, Smith and whoever SVG can get for Jackson and Drummond. If Drummond and Jackson come back, they will dominate again and create that weird chemistry that killed the Pistons last season.
IMHO Don has hit the nail on the head...what team in the NBA is in need of trading their two top paid players for an All-Star? What lottery team wants/needs to trade their two top players for a star? One thing's for certain, Harris played excellent, consistent, basketball with and without our fabulous P & R duo....as a starter and non-starter. That to me is the best player on the team. He may not be sexy enough to make the fan voted All-Star Team, like Bradley, but coaches and players alike may raise a ruckus because they're left off, if the Pistons start to make some noise in the east....some star players have been left off the All-Star Team, in favor of lessor, washed-up, players, so the standard we should be looking for is "fit." Drummond and Jackson don't seem to fit the team SVG has assembled and sentiment won't hammer that square peg into a round hole. I see a team that's highly intelligent, that plays selfless basketball and works hard. I hope Little Caesar's Arena is a "No Diva Zone."
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Don...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:53 pm

I didn't say they were although Drummond is an All Star. My point was that they are the ONLY players, IMO, that are anywhere near capable of getting there.

Nobody has ever confused Bradley or Harris of being All Stars, and neither is even projected to be capable of getting there. They've both been in the league long enough, but both are considered complementary players, not ever stars.

That was my point, that we need to get an all star back in trade, and I don't see that as a possibility at this point.

I don't think Bradley will be our best player. He may be our most rounded and balanced player, but I hesitate to say best until I see if he can even produce in this system.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:59 pm

Oracle wrote:Without Drumond or Jackson, the ONLY player left that I even think that has a chance to be an All Star is Stanley Johnson.

Obviously I'm not saying that about Stanley based on anything he's actually done, just what I think he's capable of, but there's no one else.

We simply can't get rid of Drummond & Reggie without getting a star back, IMO!

BTW, that article on the right about Stanley making cuts, assumes a PG smart enough to hit a guy making cuts, that hasn't been my experience with this team.

Oracle you made a statement above that is confusing. Who would be the star player that we would be giving away if Drummond and Reggie are traded? If you believe one or both are star players, how did you come up with that analysis? Jackson appeared to have cardio issues last season instead of a knee injury because he looked exhausted after playing only one minute or two at the start of games. Jackson was the best Piston player the year before last. Is he the star player you are referring to? It can't be Drummond. Drummond was added to the All Star team for one season. Last year he did not play like a guy who should be considered a starter in my opinion. Andre couldn't even play in most games during crunch time. Now it appears Drummond must be listening to his agent more or his agent is planting stories again relating to Andre's loss of weight and his play in Drew League. Or how about Andre working on getting a shooting touch? When will his agent create a story stating that Drummond is working hard on improving his defense and will have a new attitude relating to his contribution on the defensive end? That is where he could develop into an All Star player but he just doesn't enjoy playing defense like our Ben Wallace did. If you don't have an aptitude for becoming a top tier defender early on in your career it seems that it becomes more difficult to ever acquire the quick recognition skill set needed to become a great shot blocker. The world according to Andre Drummond relating to the game of basketball seems to exclude sacrifice what you may want to provide what the team needs the most. No coaching staff in AD's life has ever been able to crack the code to unleash the beast in Andre Drummond when it comes to learning how to defend, set screens, box out, anticipate the play on defense, make the correct decisions on pick and roll plays, and reserve maximum energy for shot blocking. Why he hates playing defense might always be a mystery to every coach he interacts with. Andre has a guaranteed long term high end contract. He can do whatever he wishes to do. That is what must scare the hell out of SVG this summer. He hasn't changed at all it seems over this summer. He wants to get more touches on offense and is working harder on his offensive game. That is a sign that this man needs to be traded but others feel differently so I respect that to. But he is no All Star player. He gets a lot of meaningless rebounds to keep his stats on rebounds high enough to get some notice. But he is not a real basketball player yet.

In my opinion if either or both Jackson and Drummond are traded nobody should expect that Detroit should get an All Star player in return. The best player on the team is Avery Bradley. He is closest to being a top tier NBA player. He is a man who can excel on both ends of the floor. Harris is the 2nd best player. Without Jackson and Drummond I would anticipate that Harris would be an excellent consistent player.

All of my current excitement about the Pistons has nothing to do with Jackson or Drummond as you might guess. I wish SVG would move them before training camp. They are chemistry killers. My excitement and hope lies with Bradley, Johnson, Kennard, Harris, Ellenson, Moreland, Boban, Bullock, Smith and whoever SVG can get for Jackson and Drummond. If Drummond and Jackson come back, they will dominate again and create that weird chemistry that killed the Pistons last season. But I would be very surprised if the owner ever agrees to part with Andre Drummond or Reggie Jackson. Reggie is needed to make sure Andre gets his touches. Good luck if you have to be the coach in that system.

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Just Saying...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:08 pm

Without Drumond or Jackson, the ONLY player left that I even think that has a chance to be an All Star is Stanley Johnson.

Obviously I'm not saying that about Stanley based on anything he's actually done, just what I think he's capable of, but there's no one else.

We simply can't get rid of Drummond & Reggie without getting a star back, IMO!

BTW, that article on the right about Stanley making cuts, assumes a PG smart enough to hit a guy making cuts, that hasn't been my experience with this team.
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I really want to talk Galloway, Bullock, Boban and Moreland

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:44 pm

Don, I didn't mean to call you a hater (I know how passionate you are and what a stickler you are for solid defense) and the "man love" narrative won't be going away anytime soon, so don't sweat it; I'm for doing whatever it takes to upgrade the PG slot on the Pistons...if it's a pass first PG great, if it's a scoring PG give me one in the mold of Wall, Curry, or Thomas, but not a sorry ass, selfish, ball hog one like Jackson. Right now, I'm all for Irving, if it takes trading Drummond to get the job done, do it!! That Drummond/Jackson dynamic in Detroit has to be broken up or ship both their asses out of here.

BallinD, I must admit I had no idea this offseason would be as exciting as it's been so far; I was looking for SVG to shot himself in the foot by resigning KCP to a max contract, trading away Harris (pennies on the dollar) to make an excuse for doing what would've been financial suicide. I don't want to get too fancy, but it'd be great if we could fleece New York or New Orleans...Porzingis, or Anthony Davis! That'd be a class "A" fleecing!! It won't happen, but I'm enjoying the dream.

I hope Drummond takes a leap forward this year, but I'm done with Jackson; his age, health, injury history, and ball hogging are turnoffs. I think he does Drummond more harm than good with the overblown P & R.
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How about the British Open championship today!!

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:58 pm

The final round with the final pairing was remarkable. even golf haters would be on the edge of your seat if you tuned in on television. Watching Jordan S. turn on the switch in the final 5 holes was one of the most incredible things in sports that I have ever witnessed. Pro golfers today are real athletes.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:50 pm

[quote="deusXango"]If, and, & what...if we did trade Drummond and Jackson for Kyrie and Love and they looked at the teams potential in the east & agreed to the trade, we could have a potential starting lineup of;
C- Love
PF-Harris
SF-Johnson
SG-Bradley
PG-Irving
This won't happen, of course, but the damndest thing is, the team would be built around Tobias Harris, the player SVG didn't seem to appreciate or value. I really don't see where there'd be a problem with establishing chemistry with this group, nor do I see any silly dumb-dumbs on the floor.

Don has made a strong case for a "man love" affair between Gores and Drummond so if this is true, President Van Gundy doesn't stand a chance of moving Drummond, but if it's just speculation/hating, we need to explore the possibly A.S.A.P.!!

No hating on my part dX. Special rules did apply for Andre and I am not the only person who put that together. But enough with the Man love story. I like that lineup but getting both Love and Irving might not be a possibility. How about Irving and Thompson?

C - Thompson
PF - Harris
SF - Johnson
G - Bradley
G - Irving

What we don't want is Anderson's contract. Love alone or Irving alone would be fantastic. Securing both players would be mind blowing incredible. Will our owner let go of the Jackson - Drummond pick and roll duo? I see Cleveland wanting to make a deal with the Pistons and might take both Reggie and Andre. Labron would have his hands full with those guys.

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Well Hell

Post  BallinD on Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:34 pm

@ Deus  Is this the most dynamic offseason in quite some time, and there is still the chance to fleece the Knicks or perhaps the Pelicans or the Lakers? by dumping Andre.  I like the Cavs idea though, even so I agree it will not happen, but we can probably rest in the news that something will. I would do that Trade, then maybe Flip Love.  And there is still the Melo to Houston deal we can wiggle into, so there is that.  

That being said, there is a part of me that hopes this is the year Dre gets it and Weggie finds his 2014-15 self.
Go Pistons.


Last edited by BallinD on Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)
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If's and iffen

Post  deusXango on Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:48 am

If, and, & what...if we did trade Drummond and Jackson for Kyrie and Love and they looked at the teams potential in the east & agreed to the trade, we could have a potential starting lineup of;
C- Love
PF-Harris
SF-Johnson
SG-Bradley
PG-Irving
This won't happen, of course, but the damndest thing is, the team would be built around Tobias Harris, the player SVG didn't seem to appreciate or value. I really don't see where there'd be a problem with establishing chemistry with this group, nor do I see any silly dumb-dumbs on the floor.

Don has made a strong case for a "man love" affair between Gores and Drummond so if this is true, President Van Gundy doesn't stand a chance of moving Drummond, but if it's just speculation/hating, we need to explore the possibly A.S.A.P.!!
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Now to get serious - check out "Piston' Stanley Johnson time to shine" article today

Post  cool breeze on Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:05 pm

The description made of Stanley Johnson in his earlier days where he was fearless as a basketball player is the SJ that I used to know and that is why I was so damn excited when SVG drafted him. If SVG is allowed to coach with no interference from above, I have high hopes it will be a really exciting and fun experience watching the Pistons. Avery Johnson, Tobias Harris, Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard are the players I hope have wonderful seasons. If players like Moreland, Bullock, Ellenson, Leuer, Smith, Boban and even Jackson and Drummond can build some good chemistry and play unselfishly and tough on defense, maybe well will forget all about last season and how the team died a slow death after the Christmas holiday.

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Tom Gores and Andre Drummond with put their minds together and tell the head coach and President what they want him to do when training camp begins

Post  cool breeze on Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:32 pm

1. Andre wil not be involved in any conditioning drills such as baseline to baseline suicides.
2. Andre gets 10 water and bathroom breaks for each practice session. They count separately which means 20 total breaks in a 2 hours practice session. The rest of the players will get one break.
3. SVG will wait outside the practice facility and wait for AD to drive in and then park his vehicle. Stan will also be forced to wear a service station uniform with his full name showing high on his chest. Stan will stay outside until Tom Gores arrives and he will park his vehicle next to Andre's. Then SVG will wash both cars.
4. Once back inside the practice facility SVG will be forced to change from the service station uniform to a speedo with a tank top and make sure he doesn't put on his whistle. Andre hates hearing whistles. Tom agrees it is frustrating for his franchise player to have to stop practicing his baseline hook or be bothered during his breaks with unfriendly sounds.
5. If Andre is in the bathroom for one of his breaks and SVG tries to install a new offense that does not feature Andre in the 4 out 1 in offensive set, practice will be stopped immediately because Tom will be watching everything that goes on when Andre is on his breaks. When Andre decides his break is over Stan, Tom and Andre will visit the coaches office for some clarification as to why SVG was going behind Andre's back.
6. Being that the shooting coach was hired on a two year contract for Andre he will be limited never getting any closer to Andre than 40 yards whenever both are at the practice facility. This will work like a restraining order for domestic violence situations. The shooting coach will be allowed to work with all of the other players but can never speak to Andre. Andre gets confused with more than one of his hand picked assistant coaches telling him how to shoot free throws. This worked well for Andre last season as his shooting percentage was better than the previous year.
7. Before the team can have a shoot around before practice starts, Tom will bring in the dance team coach with with dance team fully decked out with their game time outfits. 30 minutes will be dedicated for dance practice as this will be a new feature to be introduced at the first regular season home game where Andre will exclude all the roster players from his former traditional circle and the female dance team will take the floor at center court and form up with Andre when the lights go off. Then Hip Hop Daddy Drummond will grab the microphone and sing as he dances in the circle as the spot light shines and Andre's basketball shoes will be hotter than a two dollar gun and his voice will be pure because of that nasal surgery.
8. There will be no national anthem as the Andre show will take up all the pre game hoopla.
9. Being that SVG has been a team player for the owner by agreeing to park cars, wear the speedo and install Andre's 4 our 1 in offense, he will be allowed to bring his dog to the players bench and sit on SVG's lap during all home games. He will carry the dog in his arms much like Dr. Evil carried Mr. Bicklesworth in the Austin Powers movies. But Tom and Andre will have driven a hard bargain in their negotiations with SVG so he can bring in the dog to calm his nerves. According to the new contract, Drummond will get a minimum of 22 touches in the paint or beyond the 3 point line per game where Andre can feature his new outside game as a surprise for the fans who love him as much as the owner. Andre's confidence has grown a lot since he played in the Drew League.
10. Andre Drummond will be installed as team captain again. The owner will insist that there will be no secret vote. All roster players will have to turn their vote into the owner's hands where he alone will check the votes. Andre will be allowed to vote for himself.
11. When the team install's the defense in training camp, Andre will not participate as he gets an upset stomach whenever anyone mentions shot blocking, boxing out, communicating on pick and roll defense or thinking about the confusing rotation system that SVG employs for the other players. Andre will do his thing again and it will all work out well. After all Detroit has a top 10 defense. We all know that.
12. Andre and his girl friend at the time and Tom Gores family will fly to an undisclosed beach front Pacific Island for the Christmas holidays and Andre will not be available for any games that are scheduled from Christmas to three days past New Years.
13. In late March Andre will not be available because he will be in LA to try out for two different movie scripts. Tom hired an acting coach who will be traveling with the team for all away games. There will be no time for Andre to look at opposing game film before any of those away games.
14. Andre Drummond will be the only player on the Piston roster who will have his name on the back of his jersey.
15. Andre will receive one million dollars for each playoff game he participates in and that same amount of money will be taken out of his teammates pay in the even that the Pistons make the playoffs.
16. There will be no players only meetings during the regular season.
17. The Bad Boys annual team celebration night will be cancelled next winter and will be replaced with a special night dedicated to Andre Drummond for signing the max contract with the Pistons. Where would we be without him?

Actually there are 25 rules in place for next season and they will be revealed at a later date. Get ready for another exciting season of Piston basketball.


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Stuffing and Gravy

Post  BallinD on Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:31 pm

I internally scoffed at the Kyrie Irving rumors, but now that it appears the Cavs are going after D. Rose, indicates a potential truth in there somewhere.

This year could be so interesting. I get that Kyrie thinks he is now ready to put a team on his back, kind of like Westbrook. It will have the same effect...no deep playoff run in this era of Superteams.

Milwaukee looks to be continuing on the upswing, Cavs could be crashing to Earth, Boston will be a beast, Washington and Toronto and Miami will contend for the top tier as well. Pistons, hard to say... Chemistry is such an elusive thing and with proven chemistry killers like Dre, Weggie and SVG, who can bet on the Stones?

The sooner we get Kennard contributing, the better. A lineup with Avery, Special K, Stanimal and Hank-the-Tank Ellensen, could be the makings of a contender. Not sure if Dre and Weggie are ready for prime time, but that's just me.

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Instant Classic

Post  Murph on Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:57 am

cool breeze wrote:
Murph wrote:Yes, clearly Drummond and Gores are good friends.  I'm guessing the two bonded several years ago, when Gores chaperoned Drummond and McCurdy on their date in LA.  

It would not surprise me if Drummond has Gores' personal cell phone number and permission to call him anytime...like when Marcus Morris spouts off in a players only meeting.

I admit this comes from the category of, "you can't make this stuff up."  Nevertheless, that is the reality that SVG is living in.  

But as bizarre as this may seem, who's to say, Gores is wrong?  After all, Gores bought the Pistons for $325 million in 2011, and they're now worth a nifty $900 million according to Forbes.  And that figure will increase even more when the Pistons move downtown.  So I'm sure Tom Gores has no qualms about being besties with Drummond, while he counts his $575 million in increased net worth in only 6 years.

SVG, the coaching staff and the GM must have to walk on tip toes knowing they better not piss off Andre Drummond. Maybe this season Tom Gores will insist that SVG and all of his assistants dance with Andre in Andre's circle just to make sure that everyone knows that Andre Drummond is the captain. All of the lights ill go off and one big spot light will show Andre inside the circle telling the coaches to get out of the circle. SVG will have a puzzled look on his face and will flap his arms two times as he walks to his seat on the bench. Notes will be transferred during the games from the owner to SVG to insist on more post up plays for AD. The only living soul Stan will be able to vet to will be his dog who will still have behavior issues. I'll bet that Avery Bradley will not be one of the insignificant roster players who form the circle for the mega former all star AD. Fans like kid Rock who are close to the floor might hear Avery say what the hell is going on? Arn't we here to play basketball? Then Tom might appear out of nowhere after looking at his hidden cameras step and say do you want to be traded? This is Andre's team. Show him some support. Avery might be the only player who will say please trade me. Meanwhile after the game when SVG has to attend another beating at the post game press conference the snow is flying outside the arena and the windshield wipers are moving fast. Tom will be driving Andre and his date to a private party where movie deals will be discussed. Andre will feel a bit down after Whiteside gets another tip in over Andre's head to win the game but not to worry because the owner will be there to console our big center. After all who cares about the game anyway. the value of the Pistons will continue to rise. The local papers will report the following morning about the fierce fight that is going on for playing time at the power forward position with no mention of the last second win by Miami with that tip in. SVG will be forced to blame Ellenson for causing the loss this time to divert attention from the team Captain. SVG won't tell the press about his special instructions from Tom after the game. The owner might insist that SVG place some extra consideration with playing time for those power forwards who cheer the loudest and clap while Andre does the shimmy during the games and shows the most support for Andre's pre game dance routine. Now that I think about it, maybe Tom Gores is on to something. Maybe this could turn into a situation where fans just come to see what will happen next with the AD and TG show. There will some great half time entertainment as well.  

Don, that's the funniest post I've read in years, and not far from the truth.  lol
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:49 pm

BallinD wrote:
Sparma wrote:It's sounding to me like LeBron will be heading to Houston or the Lakers after one more season in Cleveland.  I think he's about to demonstrate that getting to the Finals is quite a feat given the right competition (in the West).

Is that going to make Detroit about #4 seed if they just keep from imploding?

If true, it is interesting that Minnesota (small market team) is on the comeup!  How fast did Minnesota ascend under Thibs, vs. SVG still treading water with the Dre & Weggie show, if it is Gores' plan, I believe (could be wrong) SVG bought all into that notion because he is the Big-Guy Whisperer by reputation and he is trying to ride that rep (P&R anybody, 1 in 4 out, that's all I got folks).  

Still, though I hope this year is the year of the Stones and soon it will be Stanley and Kennard's team as SVG rides off in infamy?  


"Among several possibilities discussed in Irving's meeting with the Cavaliers, the San Antonio Spurs were raised as a preferred destination, league sources told ESPN. Irving said he'd also be willing to join the New York Knicks, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources said."

The Big Guy Whisperer! That is what we will call him. Detroit wasn't on Irving's list. How will the dreamers deal with that? Will Mr. G. get some reporter or even his whipping boy BGW to issue a statement that Irving really would love to play with the Pistons Captain AD but he wants to live in warmer weather. Irving sees a lot of possiblities with the 1 in 4 out dance.

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So Fast, The Rebuild

Post  BallinD on Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:55 pm

Sparma wrote:It's sounding to me like LeBron will be heading to Houston or the Lakers after one more season in Cleveland.  I think he's about to demonstrate that getting to the Finals is quite a feat given the right competition (in the West).

Is that going to make Detroit about #4 seed if they just keep from imploding?

If true, it is interesting that Minnesota (small market team) is on the comeup!  How fast did Minnesota ascend under Thibs, vs. SVG still treading water with the Dre & Weggie show, if it is Gores' plan, I believe (could be wrong) SVG bought all into that notion because he is the Big-Guy Whisperer by reputation and he is trying to ride that rep (P&R anybody, 1 in 4 out, that's all I got folks).  

Still, though I hope this year is the year of the Stones and soon it will be Stanley and Kennard's team as SVG rides off in infamy?  


"Among several possibilities discussed in Irving's meeting with the Cavaliers, the San Antonio Spurs were raised as a preferred destination, league sources told ESPN. Irving said he'd also be willing to join the New York Knicks, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources said."
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The meek shall inherit the East

Post  Sparma on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:48 pm

It's sounding to me like LeBron will be heading to Houston or the Lakers after one more season in Cleveland. I think he's about to demonstrate that getting to the Finals is quite a feat given the right competition (in the West).

Is that going to make Detroit about #4 seed if they just keep from imploding?

I was trying to remember such mismatched conferences/ divisions. Unfortunately, what came to mind was the Twins winning in the AL Western division in 1987, then clobbering a Tigers team in the playoffs that had won 13 games more than them, led by the true MVP in Alan Trammel. Was it Gary Gaetti who played like he was heading straight to Cooperstown in that series? And we gave up a pitcher with a HOF career ahead of him to acquire the half season stud who helped us inch past Toronto.

(btw, evidently no way the Tigers can make the kind of trade Atlanta did this season, trying to be big time sellers this season.)
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:39 pm

Oracle wrote:
Go Stones! wrote:He wants out.  Go get him SVG!
He was a loser before LeBron came and while he could improve a team, he's another ball dominant guard that without the other weapons around him can't get it done.

He doesn't realize that he gets those clean shots, not because he's great, but teams have to worry about the real threats on the Cavs. Another case of press clippings going to a players head.

Celtics may well inherit the east and the Pistons move up a notch  lol

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/cavs-kyrie-irving-asked-team-to-trade-him-report-says/ar-AAozfD0?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp wrote:
"The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to go play in a situation where he can be a more focal point and no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said."

James, according to the report, was blindsided by the news.

Bradley said that Irving was his most difficult assignment and spoke extremely highly of him. He seemed to be injury prone earlier on in his career and also in his one season at Duke. But if I were rating players who performed in the playoffs this last season, he would be really high on the list as prime time performers. He does create his own shot without Labron and does a great job moving without the basketball and using screens.

While Labron James is one of the great all time basketball players, I see where some of his teammates are coming from this summer. The team has three outstanding offensive players in James, Irving and Love. After Cleveland lost in the finals suddenly those players feel like they are not good enough for Labron to share the locker room with anymore. Love especially must feel that he no longer measures up. Who has created all they hype as to Labron James future? The guy is from the State of Ohio. If he wants out why wouldn't the other players want out because they came to Cleveland for the chance to play with James. All James wants is more rings. Will he go to the Lakers? How about Houston? Players now wonder why they are in Cleveland. The fans in Ohio are much like the loyal Piston fans. We grew up pulling for the Pistons and haven't changed throughout our lives. We have witnessed fantastic basketball played by real champions who loved each other like family. There was a real bond between the fans and the players which the Bad Boys keep on saying to this day. Who thought about wanting to get a ring at another city in those times? Player agents and huge egos have affected the NBA and other pro sports in a bad way. When will the interest die out and fans not longer watch or care? That documentary on Cleveland about their sports teams is revealing. When the Cavaliers won their first title all the other sports teams got involved in the parade especially some of the old Browns players and that one back who fumbled the football on the one yard line that cost the Browns a championship many years ago. He was in the parade.

Labron could be a real hero if he finished out his career in Cleveland. He could set the tone for the other superstar players. But it appears he will leave for greener pastures as quickly as he can to perhaps LA where he can sell his brand and make even more money. This is a free country at least for awhile so best of luck Labron. But he will not be remembered as a hero in Cleveland or in the State of Ohio where he grew up. I really am surprised at this turn of events with James. I thought might finish his career in Cleveland. What if the basketball Gods strike like and his luck runs out once he moves as the injuries start piling up. Will he get some boos in Laker land if he can no longer deliver? They would still love him in Cleveland if he stayed.

I would sure give up Drummond for Irving or Love but of course Mr. Gores would not trade Andre Drummond for even Labron. They have a special relationship. I can't stop laughing about that idea the press has brought out. Where are our comedy writers? Now is the time to return.

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This is too rich...

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:27 pm

Go Stones! wrote:He wants out.  Go get him SVG!
He was a loser before LeBron came and while he could improve a team, he's another ball dominant guard that without the other weapons around him can't get it done.

He doesn't realize that he gets those clean shots, not because he's great, but teams have to worry about the real threats on the Cavs. Another case of press clippings going to a players head.

Celtics may well inherit the east and the Pistons move up a notch  lol

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/cavs-kyrie-irving-asked-team-to-trade-him-report-says/ar-AAozfD0?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp wrote:
"The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to go play in a situation where he can be a more focal point and no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said."

James, according to the report, was blindsided by the news.
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Kyrie

Post  Go Stones! on Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:08 pm

He wants out. Go get him SVG!
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Does the Pistons playoff potential actually depend on Reggie Jackson? If so Piston management didn't do their job.

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:42 pm

How could it be possible that the Piston front office with Jeff Bower advising the President SVG would stake the fortune of the Pistons this coming season with one player, Reggie Jackson? There is no doubt that there was a big effort to trade Jackson and upgrade the point guard position by at least Bower and SVG. But it gets back to who makes the actual decisions for this team? Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson have a special click that excludes all other players. The owner has embraced this theme that Reggie and Andre are the star players and the rest of the players only play minor roles. Reggie looked like he had a cardio issue instead of a knee issue when he returned. He was gasping for oxygen after only one or two minutes and looked exhausted most of the time he played. The coaching staff couldn't have missed that if some of us and especially the opposition noticed that Reggie was struggling with something other than a physical problem with his knee. But does logic and reason apply when decisions are actually made with the Pistons in this era? We know this much. Andre Drummond loves Reggie Jackson. Reggie gets Andre the ball on offense or did the previous season. They formed a special bond. The owner has a special bond with Andre Drummond. We know that much too. So if there were trade opportunities available to the Pistons say for Rubio or other established point guards, did Andre have the final say in those potential deals. I say this because maybe the owner who made Andre team captain last year tells Drummond what SVG wants to do and after consulting with his buddy Andre, could it be that the owner then says NO? No trade damn it all. Reggie gets Andre the ball for his baseline hook shot. That is what we need more of next season.

Using logic and reason which SVG and Bower are not allowed to do, one could believe that Detroit will struggle again next season because of the same reasons they had such bad team chemistry last season. Almost anyone who knows the NBA and is not emotionally involved with the Pistons would say that the Pistons have major flaws that have not been addressed. They are weak at point guard regardless of what the spin is with the local press who get their stories from the Pistons front office. The front office get their marching orders from the owners group of non basketball people. The only thing the owners group is interested in is Andre Drummond and keeping him happy. Meanwhile, the Pistons do not have a top tier point guard on the team. They have a 2nd tier at best starting point guard in Reggie Jackson who has some kind of medical issue that does not involve his knee. And Reggie is a huge liability on defense which will hurt the team's chances of success in getting that 8th spot. The other big issue is the starting center position. Andre Drummond is a horrible defender regardless of the spin. The only center who could defend last season is no gone and his name was Baynes. Remember all those games where Baynes was in the game in crunch time while the $20 plus million dollar man had to ride the bench? Why would anyone think Andre Drummond will be good enough of a player to provide valuable minutes in crunch time next season? Nobody plays defense in the Drew League? That is not where a player goes to improve on the defensive end. Andre wants the ball more next year. So once again healthy or not Reggie will be dribbling around trying to throw the ball to Andre while the rest of the players stand around. How many touches have been deemed as mandatory by the owner for Andre next year?

If the point guard position is not upgraded from Jackson and Smith the Pistons are in big trouble. If the coach got permission to try Bradley or Kennard in the point guard role, that would be great but not likely. Andre won't approve. He wants more of the pick and roll play again. That is all Andre knows and it is all about what Andre wants. If the coach revolts and does the right thing will he be fired? He has Boban and Moreland which to me is a better option than Andre Drummond but still how much those two players can give is still a big unknown. I got excited for one day when I heard that the Clippers might be interested in trading their center for Drummond. Wouldn't that have been fantastic even if it would only last for one season? Imagine a center who cares about shot blocking, defensive rebounding and protecting the paint more than getting offensive touches. Maybe the writer who provided the article on Reggie Jackson and the Pistons playoff hopes does know the real story about who makes all the decisions. Imagine the power Andre Drummond holds having the owner in his pocket. Forget all about all the other players that SVG and Jeff Bower has added. They are not important. This approaching season will be act two of the Reggie - Andre show. I suspect that SVG will resign after the season is over. The owner won't blink and eye. He will be consulting Andre as to who he should hire next while watching pre game clips of Andre and Reggie dancing in the circle with the rest of the roster players forming the circle for the stars trying hard to look excited.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:06 pm

Oracle wrote:Wow Don, that's a very great observation, and I totally agree!

Don wrote:While Oracle has said that a player can develop a higher basketball IQ through experience I do not dispute that thought but believe through my own personal experience that there are just some basketball players who seem to be able to see the future or see the opportunities faster than other players(Very true). They are just born with that gift. In Bradley's case forgetting his high basketball IQ, one should look at his ball handling skills compared to Pope. He played some point guard in the NBA but had some difficulty playing the NBA type game. Over the past three seasons, Avery has dedicated his off season to get better and better as a ball handler, shot creator, passer, screener, and just about every other area that I haven't mentioned. He does the little things that make all the difference between success and failure. KCP has not yet scratched the surface and is not anywhere close to being in the same category as Bradley(Totally true, and while not an excuse, IMO, SVG's offense discourages picking up those skills because he wants KCP camped out at the 3 point line while Reggie dribbles). He might become a prolific scorer some day. But the two players are very different and always will be difference type players. That ends my attempts to compare the two

Oracle there is no doubt that Pope's improvement has been limited like Johnson because he is told to stand and wait until the point guard throws a bone his way. How could KCP learn how to set an effective screen and then use the screen he set to get open. SVG's 2 guards are seldom involved in this stupid offense. But with all the new stuff on this "special" relationship between the proclaimed franchise player and the owner makes a lot of Piston fans wonder if Stan Van Gundy actually makes any decisions. Is he a puppet in title only head coach and President? It just doesn't make any sense that any coach would stick with the pick and roll offense that never worked all season long and especially after Reggie Jackson played so poorly after his return from the knee issue. Who benefits from this 4 out and 1 in out dated offense? What is the number one option in that offense? It is clear to me that the owner still insisted on the team running the offense so Andre Drummond could get the touches he wanted. Isn't it too bad that Andre Drummond doesn't give a crap about being a real basketball player and to use his physical assets in a way that could really help any basketball team he plays on? He hates playing defense. He doesn't understand how to rotate or position himself properly not mentioning his inability to anticipate opponent plays. Wouldn't it be great if AD called his buddy the owner at night after a big loss and asked the owner if he would talk to SVG and ask him to hire a conditioning coach and outstanding big man defensive coach to get the big center on the All Star team based on his defensive ability. He has a clear path to stardom but won't embrace it. And the owner enables his employee anyway he can. If only SVG would tape some of his conversations from the owner about AD. That would be a way to stop the insanity.

I cannot believe that Stan Van Gundy or any coach for that matter would stick with the pick and roll as the first option in the team's offense after Reggie couldn't perform and the play would involve Ish Smith and AD. That was like committing suicide. Yet it happened. How far will Piston management go this season to make AD happy? Maybe you are right about the young guys getting excluded and playing in the G League this coming season. They will not be effective anyway if the team runs that same offense.

But there still is talk about AD and the Suns. The roster is better in my opinion and the players are capable of running an offense featuring 3 or more options in one half court possession. Kennard is mature for his age and is a smart basketball player. Ellenson has a ways to go with his positioning and anticipation on defense. Johnson is smart and capable of getting teammates open using his body in the paint. We could see a lot of player and ball movement for the first time in years. If the owner would agree to a beneficial trade to bring in a athletic defensive minded shot blocking center, that could be a start of something special in Piston land. If the pick and roll offense with Reggie and Andre is forced down the throats of the players who are not named Jackson and Drummond, we are in for more of the same. Andre's value might be about as high as it will ever be right now. If nothing happens all we can hope for is that Andre Drummond suddenly sees the light and changes completely from his former self. He has lost some weight. That is a start. But will he become a dominate feared defensive minded center that opponents don't look forward to playing against. Last year opponents really enjoyed playing against our big guy. The clock is ticking.

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News Flash: OJ finds killers with amazing new technology!!!

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:49 pm

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Don

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Wow Don, that's a very great observation, and I totally agree!

Don wrote:While Oracle has said that a player can develop a higher basketball IQ through experience I do not dispute that thought but believe through my own personal experience that there are just some basketball players who seem to be able to see the future or see the opportunities faster than other players(Very true). They are just born with that gift. In Bradley's case forgetting his high basketball IQ, one should look at his ball handling skills compared to Pope. He played some point guard in the NBA but had some difficulty playing the NBA type game. Over the past three seasons, Avery has dedicated his off season to get better and better as a ball handler, shot creator, passer, screener, and just about every other area that I haven't mentioned. He does the little things that make all the difference between success and failure. KCP has not yet scratched the surface and is not anywhere close to being in the same category as Bradley(Totally true, and while not an excuse, IMO, SVG's offense discourages picking up those skills because he wants KCP camped out at the 3 point line while Reggie dribbles). He might become a prolific scorer some day. But the two players are very different and always will be difference type players. That ends my attempts to compare the two
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Sparma, Killers & new signing

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:14 pm

@Sparma - That's a fairly objective comparison. I like Bradley a lot because there's no way to measure a player with a sh!t load of HEART, and he has that in spades.

My three issues with Bradley are,

1. Size! With more teams getting bigger and longer, we're going in the wrong direction. I think he's great for a one year rental, but that's it, IMO.
2. Nobody thinks he'll sign here again because, IMO, he's going to have a great season and will get good offers from better clubs.
3. This isn't about Bradley, it's more SVG, but the move simply kicks the can down the road and doesn't address the 90M/yr in non-producing players.

My prediction for how good this team could be is partly based on the fact that if Stanley Johnson makes the starting lineup, the combination of two plus defenders will produce an effect that's greater than the sum. Hence the reason I always wanted to see KCP & Stanley together.

@Killers - Your time is up! OJ Simpson is soon to be a free man! Free to track you killers down, you should be quaking in your boots!

New signing: Yet another SF that SVG will never play... at least he's cheap.
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