FORUM

Page 5 of 29 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 17 ... 29  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Good Stuff

Post  BallinD on Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Sparma, I like what you see as well and do not disagree with any of it.  SVG does talk out of both sides of his mouth, but as you say:  

SPARMA QUOTE:  
You write of SVG's "simplistic, non-nuanced solutions, such as we just need to defend better, we just need Weggie to be Healthy, or we need to shoot and make more threes." Again, my view seems to be a little different, when taking account of SVG's vast capacity for pragmatic/ self-serving rhetoric. Example: KCP being talked up repeatedly, then disappearing without a return once that perceived better opportunity arose. I don't believe SVG believes "we just need Weggie to be Healthy" even though he's clearly said that kind of thing plenty. His recent public pronouncements about his openness to what unfolds suggests otherwise.

By way of comparing what he's said and what he does, I see no real pattern to his way, other than stubbornly going down one road and insisting it is the right one, only to bump his head and insist he went down the right road, but then he correctly reacted to the bump that so many others could see coming.  He may be capable of learning though.  His reputation is at stake and the door is open for the Stones to walk in and claim a place at the EC Playoffs table.

SVG today, via Langlois:   “I think we’ve got to do a better job of using our entire roster.”

Reminded of that this week, Van Gundy chuckled and said, “I hope so. I hope so. Again, I’ve never been that guy.”

Can he become that guy – a coach who employs less of a rigid rotational system and more of a case-by-case rotation based on opponent, schedule and game situation?

SVG: “Most of the time you go in and you have a pretty damn good idea. There might be a spot or two, but for the most part you know who’s going to play. I really don’t right now. I’m more wide open to other possibilities than I’ve been at any time as a head coach in this league. We’ll just have to see how it goes.”


Troubling Comment
Van Gundy plans to use Leuer “a lot more” as a center this season.  Change, but is it the correct change?  I think not, but time will tell.
avatar
BallinD

Posts : 428
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  Sparma on Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:25 pm

Funny stuff about Reggie's body language/ micro expressions. And scary, if they show he just doesn't get it.

You write: "Dre is so averse to any discussion of his flaws at any time, it seems like he is a 10-year old kid." I may see this a little differently, maybe not. I think AD's intensely self-conscious about some of his failings, particularly his FTs. In fact, I think that contributes to him screwing up in game situations. And he may be averse of any discussion, but he must have plenty of them. It sounds to me that SVG and crew are so aware of AD's hyper sensitivity that they treat him with kid gloves. So far, that hasn't yielded impressive results.

You write of SVG's "simplistic, non-nuanced solutions, such as we just need to defend better, we just need Weggie to be Healthy, or we need to shoot and make more threes." Again, my view seems to be a little different, when taking account of SVG's vast capacity for pragmatic/ self-serving rhetoric. Example: KCP being talked up repeatedly, then disappearing without a return once that perceived better opportunity arose. I don't believe SVG believes "we just need Weggie to be Healthy" even though he's clearly said that kind of thing plenty. His recent public pronouncements about his openness to what unfolds suggests otherwise.

Not sure if this counts as speculation or factual regarding SVG: he's a smart guy, who clearly recognizes problems, and has a good sense of the kind of solutions he wants (witness his off season moves, which display a distinctive pattern).

BUT he got scorched in Orlando by being too harsh with players, particularly Howard. He's critical here too (eg with Stanley) but also extremely/ overly delicate, as with AD and Reggie. Regarding some shift in manner I'd speculate: a) he's learned from the backlash to his relentless abrasiveness in Orlando, so lightens up some and b) he figures he's got the front office clout to address problems there, if the issue becomes unbearable. So he's going to support Reggie fiercely as long as that serves his purposes, but he'll turn around and dump him if Reggie will not/ cannot get with the program.




BallinD wrote:Sparma, I'm optimistic and have been for this reason.  There are plenty of fixes for what ailed us last year, but applying them requires seeing that they are fixes...SVG and his braintrust of coaches and advisors.

It is easy perhaps to see them from the perspective of seeing the forest and the trees, when you can step back from the thick of it and try to objectively analyze things.  To his detriment perhaps, it seems SVG and his slappies appear to be in the thick of it and trout out old tired GroupThink excuses and simplistic, non-nuanced solutions, such as we just need to defend better, we just need Weggie to be Healthy, or we need to shoot and make more threes.

The devil is in the details and in the desire to truly improve, not just prove my scheme works, my favorite players are really the best players, etc.

I do believe the stars could align and Bradley could bring a breath of fresh air with his style of play, Drummond will have more energy and fire, and Reggie will most of all have more energy and self awareness, Kennard will get minutes and his style of play and shooting will become infectious, and SJ will finally grow mentally into his man-sized body.

If SVG gets out of the way of organic growth and does not try to protect the feelings of his two annointed ones (Weggie and Dre) let the leadershhip emerge, that will certainly work.  But with so many slappies (in the media) encouraging him to double down on his scheme and buying and parroting his excuses and often simplistic solutions, it appears there is no pressure for him to pick the low-hanging fruit.

Consider the eye test.  This is what scares me.  Weggie interviewed after the Bradley presser, quietly bristled and flashed his me-first smirk when asked specifically if having a secondary ball handler like Bradley would take some of the pressure off him to create.  It was scary to see him saying one thing, but from his body language and facial microexpressions (there is a science behind reading microexpressions BTW), Weggie looked like he wanted to say, hey, I told you I'm back healthy and don't need no stinking help from a secondary ball handler!  I could be wrong, but that is what I read.  His persona is consistently one of the most disingenuous of any I have seen from a Piston in a long time.

On the other hand, Dre is so averse to any discussion of his flaws at any time, it seems like he is a 10-year old kid.  He will have tweet battles with fans suggesting he be traded and yet he says he knows it is just part of the business.  He does not inspire as someone who has grown up.  He talks about adding jumpers, but never about playing harder or being accountable to the team with his lethargy, behavior, or defense.

Yet some of the first words out of Bradley's mouth was he wants to help Detroit Win games and bring a "nasty style" of hard nosed defense, and he said it with conviction and fire, and others say that is his way, and we have seen that it is his way.

To me, these small telltales are as significant as SVG's bluster, the roster and the length of someone's arm wingspan or the height they measure out to.  

So yeah, I actually hope the stars align, I really do.  Leadership can do that if it is genuine. Bradley, Tolliver, and I believe SJ and Kennard will be advocates for playing the right way.  That is what I see in the alignment of the stars.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1071
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:00 pm

BallinD wrote:I have to wonder if SVG and his teams read any of the analytical articles from Fansided or SBNation: Detroit Bad Boys relating to strategy.  Do they even question whether there is low hanging fruit to be bagged.  

Do they even question whether:

1. Posting Dre up is such a good idea.

2. Shooting so many long twos and avoiding the easiest three-point corner shot is a good idea.

3. Playing Reggie on the second night of back-to-backs (SEGABABA)

4. Failing to play Boban is a winning strategy

5. Letting Weggie dribble the air out of the ball without passing(he ranks second in the league in seconds of holding the ball)

Per Fansided: Second Game of Back  To Backs

Jackson was an unmitigated disaster in SEGABABA, averaging 10.6 points and 4.8 rebounds on 35 percent from the floor and 26 percent from three-point range. He had an incredible -17.4 net rating in those games and a 41.4 percent true shooting rate.

In all games that were not SEGABABA, however, Jackson was not so drastically diminished from his performance of 2015-16 in which he nearly made the Eastern Conference All-Star team. Per Lazarus Jackson once again, Reggie Jackson averaged 15.2 points and 5.3 assists, hitting 43 percent from the floor and 37 percent from three-point range.

I can't recall the article yesterday that provided insight into the lack of recognition skills players had last season but the film doesn't lie. Failing to see open players in the paint or screwing up floor spacing for players who do get a pass and a clear lane to the basket but can't go because a teammate got himself too close to the opening which allowed his defender to help with the Piston with the ball. This is directly due to poor coaching or lack of aptitude in being able to learn from coaching. There is no other explanation. Maybe coaches do not recognize what is going on so they can correct or teach the players how to correct those mis cues. It didn't appear that the head coach recognized what was going on at times. I had a difficult time reading that article and it should be embarrassing for all of the current Piston coaches if they took the time to see the video provided by the author. Basketball is a simple easy game if you have a brain and use it. Are the coaches are brain dead on this current staff or the players who will be coming back for another go around? Maybe that is why they are content to run the 1 in 4 out offense featuring post ups from Andre and ball dominance from their point guards. Maybe that is the only thing this coaching staff knows or the only offense the players are capable of running.

Ballin you pointed out how Reggie ranks high in being a ball hog or having the ball in his hands for X amount of seconds for each possession. I wonder about Ish Smith and his time of possession. He tried to mimic what Reggie did and must have been told to play that way because he didn't play that way in Philly. Just which group make up the retarded component is it the coaching staff or the roster players? This lame offense will never produce an effective NBA half court offense. Reggie Jackson is in uniform to help Andre Drummond score more points. However, how many points are really generated per game from the Reggie - Andre pick and roll play? How many dunks per game does Andre get since opponents now know that this is the only strategy the coaching staff can come up with? Part of the failure of this team last season was lack of effort but lack of ball movement, player movement, screening, having a 2nd, 3rd or 4th option was equally lacking. To me the Detroit Pistons looked like the dumbest team in the league. The team seldom used both sides of the court because of the dribble happy point guards, Jackson and Smith were always being forced to one side by every opponent. The coaching staff just looked without recognizing or responding to what the opponent defense strategy was game after game. There was no plan to counter the opponent's plan.

So it is really funny now to read that SVG says everything is wide open as to what lineups he will end up using. Will it matter as long as the Piston coaching staff have no plan and cannot create a team that can adjust to opponents defensive strategy? Hit the brick wall head on and get up and hit your head against the wall again. That is the strategy it appears. The only explanation for this behavior by the coaching staff and the head coach is that they are not really in charge of anything. The only thing that makes sense is that the owner and one or two players on the team set the tone as to what the strategy will be for the Piston offense. When the coaches do not involve 3 of the 5 players in the offense and the center and point guard jockey around on offense to make something happen, who wants to play on that team? Better yet, who wants to watch that team? Maybe some fans who are brain dead just love to see the center dunk the ball two times per game. My gut feeling is that until Andre Drummond is traded, this team will not change. The offense will be centered around the center and the point guard much like last season regardless of what SVG is saying now. That is why SVG brought in his idea this week that Jon Leuer is a starter caliber player. He is a starter. Harris is a starter but is very effective coming off the bench. If Leuer is the starter, he will stand out beyond the 3 point line like Charlie V did such a good job doing. Don't want Harris getting the ball with the starting group and putting it on the floor. He will mess with Andre getting his touches in the starting group.

This must be SVG in practice. Hey Avery you go down to the baseline beyond the 3 point line and stand there. Yep that's good now stay right there. Now Stanley you go over to the opposite side and stand on the wing if Reggie goes to Avery's side. Leuer you stand out beyond the 3 point line on the strong side which is Avery's side if you get confused. Andre get ready to receive the ball in the post on the strong side. You go to the opposite baseline side and then cut to the strong side. Reggie you just dribble around until Andre is open or you get your shot. Now just repeat that offensive set for the entire game. If you can get into the paint Reggie do it and then look for Andre for the dunk. This is what the owner is paying large sums of money for and the coach is trying to make the entire offense appear to be very complicated. Can anyone figure out why this team had such bad chemistry last season? Who wants to play on the dumbest team in the NBA? Some of the players are embarrassed. Zeke made some comments in a more politically friendly way on NBA TV last year about the Piston's offense and their composition of players. Does anyone believe that if Zeke were in his prime he would go along with this coaching staff's offensive strategy? It wouldn't happen. Zeke would be asking for a trade to get himself out of the madness. He would not want to play with Andre Drummond in the first place. Imagine Isiah Thomas getting drafted with his skill set and coming in to the Piston team with Andre already established as the team leader as per the instructions of Tom Gores and Stan Van Gundy. How could he react? Not well I guarantee. No sane player would want to play in SVG's system last season. As long as AD is running the team and the offense created by the coach is for Andre Drummond to get on the All Star team as the primary goal by building offensive stats the Detroit Pistons will always be a team that opposing announcers create jokes over like they did last season. How many times did I hear, why in hell do they run the offense through Andre Drummond? Why do the point guards dribble around so much until the shot clock is almost extinguished? This was the coaches plan or the owners plan that the coaches implemented. Nothing changed all season long. No adjustments were made. The rules were in place. No deviation from the game plan was allowed by the head coach who might have been following orders from the owner because of his relationship with the center. Ah well the dancing sure was great before the games. We have an All Star who can really dance. The owner loves good entertainment.

Does anyone really believe that until Andre Drummond is finally traded, anything will look different with the Piston's offense? I am not writing this because I hate Andre Drummond. This is not his fault. He of course wants to score a lot of points and hates playing defense but there are a lot of highly paid players like that.  This post is directed to the owner and the Piston coaching staff. They both failed to do the right thing last season so why would anyone want to buy a season ticket this season? Who can trust them to do the right thing? The players should be allowed to to have a voice on which offense should be used and who should be featured in that offense. Last season was pure madness and I know of few situations where coaches were allowed to return after such dysfunction was displayed. We must remember that there were no adjustments made other than moving Harris to the bench and benching Johnson at certain times of the season. There was no change in the offensive strategy when that strategy did not work. So we must deduce that the coaching staff fully approved of the play of Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson who were the featured players in that offense. The offensive objectives were never changed even when the team was being blown out in the first and 3rd quarters. SVG is now talking almost the same way he talked before training camp last season. Everything is wide open but of course he will feature the 4 out 1 in with AD as our center piece. He is our All Star. And remember how great Reggie played two seasons ago. Don't forget that. The rest of the players will of course be a big problem so SVG will have to study hard to figure out how to use them to fit the offense. He will be watching the young players real close you can bet on that. And this time around no opposing team will be able to figure out SVG's offensive strategy either even though Reggie and Ish will continue to dribble around until they create something. You can take that to the bank because SVG says we now have more pieces to stand around and watch Reggie and Andre. And those guys better play some defense because they will all be well rested on offense. Poor Andre and Reggie and Ish will be too tired to play much of any defense because they really work hard on offense.  Are the Pistons labeled as a franchise that might be as dumb as a box of rocks? Were we idiots last year because we watched them play so many dull games? At least the players get paid a lot of money. Maybe we should watch more golf re runs next winter. Or better yet, why not support the local high school teams more?

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Stuff

Post  BallinD on Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:31 pm

Sparma, I'm optimistic and have been for this reason.  There are plenty of fixes for what ailed us last year, but applying them requires seeing that they are fixes...SVG and his braintrust of coaches and advisors.

It is easy perhaps to see them from the perspective of seeing the forest and the trees, when you can step back from the thick of it and try to objectively analyze things.  To his detriment perhaps, it seems SVG and his slappies appear to be in the thick of it and trout out old tired GroupThink excuses and simplistic, non-nuanced solutions, such as we just need to defend better, we just need Weggie to be Healthy, or we need to shoot and make more threes.

The devil is in the details and in the desire to truly improve, not just prove my scheme works, my favorite players are really the best players, etc.

I do believe the stars could align and Bradley could bring a breath of fresh air with his style of play, Drummond will have more energy and fire, and Reggie will most of all have more energy and self awareness, Kennard will get minutes and his style of play and shooting will become infectious, and SJ will finally grow mentally into his man-sized body.

If SVG gets out of the way of organic growth and does not try to protect the feelings of his two annointed ones (Weggie and Dre) let the leadershhip emerge, that will certainly work.  But with so many slappies (in the media) encouraging him to double down on his scheme and buying and parroting his excuses and often simplistic solutions, it appears there is no pressure for him to pick the low-hanging fruit.

Consider the eye test.  This is what scares me.  Weggie interviewed after the Bradley presser, quietly bristled and flashed his me-first smirk when asked specifically if having a secondary ball handler like Bradley would take some of the pressure off him to create.  It was scary to see him saying one thing, but from his body language and facial microexpressions (there is a science behind reading microexpressions BTW), Weggie looked like he wanted to say, hey, I told you I'm back healthy and don't need no stinking help from a secondary ball handler!  I could be wrong, but that is what I read.  His persona is consistently one of the most disingenuous of any I have seen from a Piston in a long time.

On the other hand, Dre is so averse to any discussion of his flaws at any time, it seems like he is a 10-year old kid.  He will have tweet battles with fans suggesting he be traded and yet he says he knows it is just part of the business.  He does not inspire as someone who has grown up.  He talks about adding jumpers, but never about playing harder or being accountable to the team with his lethargy, behavior, or defense.

Yet some of the first words out of Bradley's mouth was he wants to help Detroit Win games and bring a "nasty style" of hard nosed defense, and he said it with conviction and fire, and others say that is his way, and we have seen that it is his way.

To me, these small telltales are as significant as SVG's bluster, the roster and the length of someone's arm wingspan or the height they measure out to.  

So yeah, I actually hope the stars align, I really do.  Leadership can do that if it is genuine. Bradley, Tolliver, and I believe SJ and Kennard will be advocates for playing the right way.  That is what I see in the alignment of the stars.
avatar
BallinD

Posts : 428
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

View user profile

Back to top Go down

BallinD

Post  Sparma on Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:32 am

Good stuff.

I hadn't realized the huge drop off for Reggie in the back-to-backs. That looks like a quick fix, although I'd want to know how much numbers of players in general, and of PGs in particular, drop off by way of comparison. Still, with Reggie's stamina issues which Don describes so vividly, it makes sense that he's got an extraordinary problem, one that we have the roster to address.

And I liked your earlier optimism, maybe more attempted than heartfelt?, about the various ways in which the stars may be aligned for this season. I'm feeling pretty good about the upcoming season.

BallinD wrote:I have to wonder if SVG and his teams read any of the analytical articles from Fansided or SBNation: Detroit Bad Boys relating to strategy.  Do they even question whether there is low hanging fruit to be bagged.  

Do they even question whether:

1. Posting Dre up is such a good idea.

2. Shooting so many long twos and avoiding the easiest three-point corner shot is a good idea.

3. Playing Reggie on the second night of back-to-backs (SEGABABA)

4. Failing to play Boban is a winning strategy

5. Letting Weggie dribble the air out of the ball without passing(he ranks second in the league in seconds of holding the ball)

Per Fansided: Second Game of Back  To Backs

Jackson was an unmitigated disaster in SEGABABA, averaging 10.6 points and 4.8 rebounds on 35 percent from the floor and 26 percent from three-point range. He had an incredible -17.4 net rating in those games and a 41.4 percent true shooting rate.

In all games that were not SEGABABA, however, Jackson was not so drastically diminished from his performance of 2015-16 in which he nearly made the Eastern Conference All-Star team. Per Lazarus Jackson once again, Reggie Jackson averaged 15.2 points and 5.3 assists, hitting 43 percent from the floor and 37 percent from three-point range.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1071
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Pistons Media Guys and Low Hanging Fruit

Post  BallinD on Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:16 pm

I have to wonder if SVG and his teams read any of the analytical articles from Fansided or SBNation: Detroit Bad Boys relating to strategy.  Do they even question whether there is low hanging fruit to be bagged.  

Do they even question whether:

1. Posting Dre up is such a good idea.

2. Shooting so many long twos and avoiding the easiest three-point corner shot is a good idea.

3. Playing Reggie on the second night of back-to-backs (SEGABABA)

4. Failing to play Boban is a winning strategy

5. Letting Weggie dribble the air out of the ball without passing(he ranks second in the league in seconds of holding the ball)

Per Fansided: Second Game of Back  To Backs

Jackson was an unmitigated disaster in SEGABABA, averaging 10.6 points and 4.8 rebounds on 35 percent from the floor and 26 percent from three-point range. He had an incredible -17.4 net rating in those games and a 41.4 percent true shooting rate.

In all games that were not SEGABABA, however, Jackson was not so drastically diminished from his performance of 2015-16 in which he nearly made the Eastern Conference All-Star team. Per Lazarus Jackson once again, Reggie Jackson averaged 15.2 points and 5.3 assists, hitting 43 percent from the floor and 37 percent from three-point range.
avatar
BallinD

Posts : 428
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:46 pm

BallinD wrote:Aligned so that Weggie and Bradley find themselves conspiring to share the ball among themselves and the team, especially the primary and secondary scorers like Tobias, Leuer SJ, Kennard (do not freeze out the rookie)
and especially (not Dre for post-ups).

Aligned for Chemistry to develop organically among the alpha dogs (whoever works hardest and plays the right way) and not imposed by Stupid Van Gundy.

Aligned for it to rain threes in the new arena at the hands of Bradley, RJax, Tobias, Bullock, Kennard, Galloway, Ellensen, SJ.

Aligned for another run at a top ten-top five defense, this will require a step-up for Dre and Weggie, maybe more Moreland than we expect, especially for small-ball defense, doses of SJ and Bullock.

Aligned for a run at the fourth-sixth seed.

Aligned for a significant upgrade on the 1 in 4 out, including multiple pick-and-rolls, secondary ball handlers and cuts to the basket, swinging the ball to the weak side, more of a modern motion offense, and limiting post ups to Boban.

I start dreaming like you and then I read where SVG is not sure if Leuer should be the starter over other power forwards on the Piston roster. This is a player that no team in the NBA will consider as a throw in unless the Pistons throw in several high draft picks and one good roster players. Leuer received an insane type contract based on how he played for Phoenix. Last season he showed that he cannot defend power forwards and when playing next to Drummond the paint is wide open. the weak side is open. The free throw line is wide open. And Leuer doesn't have the body that can keep opponents off the glass. So what does SVG do now? Make Leuer a starter again. Did you read that nonsense in the interview that was supposed to be about Harris. Yes SVG considers Harris and starter but several starter quality players have sacrificed and come off the bench to give the reserves a special punch.

Is Oracle correct that SVG will seldom even play guys like Kennard and Ellenson and stick with many of the players who failed last season? SVG has us all guessing.



 

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Are The Stars Aligned?

Post  BallinD on Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:29 pm

Aligned so that Weggie and Bradley find themselves conspiring to share the ball among themselves and the team, especially the primary and secondary scorers like Tobias, Leuer SJ, Kennard (do not freeze out the rookie)
and especially (not Dre for post-ups).

Aligned for Chemistry to develop organically among the alpha dogs (whoever works hardest and plays the right way) and not imposed by Stupid Van Gundy.

Aligned for it to rain threes in the new arena at the hands of Bradley, RJax, Tobias, Bullock, Kennard, Galloway, Ellensen, SJ.

Aligned for another run at a top ten-top five defense, this will require a step-up for Dre and Weggie, maybe more Moreland than we expect, especially for small-ball defense, doses of SJ and Bullock.

Aligned for a run at the fourth-sixth seed.

Aligned for a significant upgrade on the 1 in 4 out, including multiple pick-and-rolls, secondary ball handlers and cuts to the basket, swinging the ball to the weak side, more of a modern motion offense, and limiting post ups to Boban.




avatar
BallinD

Posts : 428
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:01 pm

Murph wrote:Don, your rants against Drummond are amusing, but there are two sides to every story.  At the time of the team meeting last year, the team was 10-11.  You could represent the situation from Marcus Morris' viewpoint and claim that the Pistons were playing like a well oiled machine, and that Drummond and Jackson were the cancers.  Or you could represent the situation from Drummond's viewpoint and claim that the Pistons were NOT playing like a well oiled machine, and that Morris was the cancer.

In making your determination, please consider that the year before Drummond and Jackson had led the team to the playoffs for the first time in 7 years, and that Drummond was an All-Star.  And then also please consider that Morris has a past history of being a cancer on his previous team, the Suns.

Given the evidence, the odds are that the real problem with team chemistry last season was Marcus Morris, not Andre Drummond.  And with Morris gone this season, we will know for sure soon enough.  If the Pistons play well this year and make the playoffs, Morris was the problem.  If the Pistons continue to struggle and miss the playoffs again, then most likely Drummond and Jackson are the problems.

Murph did you actually watch many games last year especially after Reggie Jackson returned to action and failed yet still played for some odd reason? I didn't see where Morris didn't give a good effort on both ends after the players only meeting. However, I am not alone in noticing after actually watching those miserable games that both Andre and Reggie played as if they could care less about actually winning a game. Neither played hard for one complete game after that meeting. It was as if they got together and said screw it we will show the rest of the team who is boss. What didn't help was SVG acting as a protector to the two most dysfunctional players at the time. The Piston organization deserved to lose big and they did because management provided no leadership or backing to the players who did give an honest effort.

Murgh you keep bringing up the Morris brothers mis behavior when they played for the Suns. I agree with you that they were chemistry killers there. But it appears that both men are now on a different course now and at least on the court played the right way and in the case of Marcus he was the guy who tried to stand up for what is right. Reggie and Andre represented the wrong way to lead and it showed big time as the season progressed after that meeting. While I am not unhappy that Morris is gone, I will say that he was one of the most stable consistent Piston players while he played for Detroit of anyone on the roster.

And one should not forget what actually went on during the games in the 1st and 3rd quarters of almost every game the team played after the players only team meeting. Morris got back on defense. Morris was in the right spots on the floor on offense. But Andre wasn't giving an honest effort. Reggie perhaps was unable to give an honest effort but if that was the case, he should have taken himself out of the lineup. And there is no excuse for the actions of Stan Van Gundy. He was a horrible head coach after the players only team meeting. The players lost respect for him after he make those stupid statements that he didn't like what went on in the players only team meeting. SVG was a coward. He feared addressing the real problems on the team and the biggest problem of all was Andre Drummond and his goofy attitude while posing as a team leader. How can anyone forget? Who can now trust anything that SVG does if he actually was in charge and not the owner.

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Explaining 11-10?; Morris

Post  Sparma on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:47 pm

Deus, Keith Langlois is the opposite of a "fault finder" (to the point of being annoying). He accounted for the most spectacular part of that run -- the 3 road wins in a road just before Reggie got back -- by referring to uncanny shooting from distance during that stretch. There was a good dose of luck, in other words, was his claim (maybe he changed his tune later).

Murph, I'd speculated that SVG including Morris in the trade was partly an effort to bring back harmony to the locker room. I still think that may have been a factor, but I've become convinced that SVG didn't see Morris as a cancer, given the high praise with which he sent him off (didn't he speak of it being the toughest thing he's done?). Maybe more of an attempt at healing than of singling out the problem then.

If that's correct, there's another way of looking at a successful season than you suggest. It wouldn't be Morris was a bad guy if the Pistons succeed. If they succeed it could be that the rift in the locker room (ie Morris, AD, Reggie taken together) was a major problem and that sending out a leader of a faction was crucial.

What I'd want to know in comparison with a successful season, and never will, is what would have happened if Reggie (or AD) had been sent out?

My final comment is probably unfair, but I don't see a way around it. If the Pistons have another bad season, Reggie and AD will be prime candidates as cause in my mind, although there would be other candidates too (apart from injury) like ineffective coaching/ stale offensive plan, failure of youngsters to emerge/ be given good opportunities, and an ongoing failure of the roster/ locker room to gel.



Murph wrote:Don, your rants against Drummond are amusing, but there are two sides to every story.  At the time of the team meeting last year, the team was 10-11.  You could represent the situation from Marcus Morris' viewpoint and claim that the Pistons were playing like a well oiled machine, and that Drummond and Jackson were the cancers.  Or you could represent the situation from Drummond's viewpoint and claim that the Pistons were NOT playing like a well oiled machine, and that Morris was the cancer.

In making your determination, please consider that the year before Drummond and Jackson had led the team to the playoffs for the first time in 7 years, and that Drummond was an All-Star.  And then also please consider that Morris has a past history of being a cancer on his previous team, the Suns.

Given the evidence, the odds are that the real problem with team chemistry last season was Marcus Morris, not Andre Drummond.  And with Morris gone this season, we will know for sure soon enough.  If the Pistons play well this year and make the playoffs, Morris was the problem.  If the Pistons continue to struggle and miss the playoffs again, then most likely Drummond and Jackson are the problems.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1071
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

AD

Post  Murph on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:11 am

Don, your rants against Drummond are amusing, but there are two sides to every story. At the time of the team meeting last year, the team was 10-11. You could represent the situation from Marcus Morris' viewpoint and claim that the Pistons were playing like a well oiled machine, and that Drummond and Jackson were the cancers. Or you could represent the situation from Drummond's viewpoint and claim that the Pistons were NOT playing like a well oiled machine, and that Morris was the cancer.

In making your determination, please consider that the year before Drummond and Jackson had led the team to the playoffs for the first time in 7 years, and that Drummond was an All-Star. And then also please consider that Morris has a past history of being a cancer on his previous team, the Suns.

Given the evidence, the odds are that the real problem with team chemistry last season was Marcus Morris, not Andre Drummond. And with Morris gone this season, we will know for sure soon enough. If the Pistons play well this year and make the playoffs, Morris was the problem. If the Pistons continue to struggle and miss the playoffs again, then most likely Drummond and Jackson are the problems.
avatar
Murph

Posts : 966
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 57
Location : Wilton, CT

View user profile

Back to top Go down

How, why, what, and when?!

Post  deusXango on Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:07 am

How do the "fault finders" explain the 11-10 record Ish Smith led the Pistons to, at the start of his first season in Detroit? Had he started the entire year, how would've our final record been...just speculate.

Why is SVG so determined to make Jon Leuer a starting PF for the Pistons? He's outmuscled by too many PF's in the league, doesn't compliment Drummonds skillset, and quite possibly will be outplayed by Anthony Tolliver, who's at the end of his career.

What'll SVG's coaching strategy be like this year, with the abundance of offensive threats at his disposal? Overall there's been improvement on the defensive side of the ball and the pros seem to be out weighing the cons. What will our rotation look like and how deep will it go? Thoughts?

When will we see exactly what Galloway, Moreland, Ellenson, and Kennard have to offer and how much Tolliver have left in the tank?
avatar
deusXango

Posts : 2782
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Don't be surprised if Moreland doesn't take minutes from both Boban and Drummond if the Pistons do not make another trade

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:46 pm

i know that we only saw him play in the summer league but I was impressed. He didn't take any plays off. His defensive rotations were spot on. He helped teammates on defense. Moreland is athletic and gets from end to end quickly. And he can make free throws. What is not to like about this 25 year old player? Boban is a question mark. Can he run the court fast enough to protect the paint? Will Drummond be engaged and can he make free throws well enough to be on the floor in crunch time?

If there were good offers for Drummond this summer that were rejected, that gamble will look like a bad one if Andre cannot make free throws when opponents hack him in the 4th quarter this coming season. He will have to be an outstanding defender this season or his trade value will be even lower next summer. It will be very interesting to see how the coach and the player handles stress next season.

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:48 pm

Sparma wrote:Don, you score a lot of good points against AD.  Still, if he really has lost 20 pounds over the summer, I give him a lot of credit for that.  Not easy to do.  I'm hoping we find him determined to be a better player, in the mold of the C Murph describes.

cool breeze wrote:
Murph wrote:I think the best course of action for Drummond would be to bag the low post offense completely and focus on rebounding, weak side shot blocking and improving his defense.  He is clearly a sub-par offensive player, and any focus his puts on his offense only takes away from his strength which is rebounding.  He should turn himself into a Ben Wallace type of offensive garbage man who only scores on put-backs, pick-and-roll dunks and alley-oops.  He could still score 10 or 12 ppg that way, with a 60% field goal percentage or higher.  And in the meantime, he could focus on rebounding, shot blocking and improving his defense.

And he needs to play all-out all the time.  He needs to play hard, with the understanding that he probably won't be playing late in the 4th quarter anyway, so who cares if he expends his energy early in the game or racks up early fouls.

If he did this, he could be a really special player.  SVG, are you listening?

Murph in defense of SVG coaching Drummond has been impossible. Everything you mentioned in this post is right on relating to What Drummond needs to give to this Piston team. Stan Van Gundy is no fool. He wants exactly what you have stated from Andre Drummond. However, Andre has other interests that do not include any of your suggestions. He is working on his shooting touch this summer. Last summer he worked on that baseline hook shot. Like you mentioned, Tom Gores has acted as Andre's driver in the past, Drummond has a hot line to the owner. This might be like being a high school basketball coach and fate has it that the superintendent has a son who is going out for the varsity and wants updates from the coach everyday as how things are going in practice and where will the son fit in position wise and then ask the coach to make his son the team captain. Murph it is not SVG's idea to feature Drummond so much on offense especially with that lame baseline hook shot. But I guess it tells us a lot about what kind of person the coach is to even stick around in that job. MONEY might be a motivator to allow dysfunction. Show me the money Mr. Owner and I will give him special rest periods in practice and 20 touches a game.  

I was critical of SVG for most of last season. Nothing made sense to me. Then as more information brought up relating to the politics that goes on within NBA teams more makes sense to me as to why the Pistons looked so much like lost souls and certain players were never punished for "not being engaged" enough. On a high school or college team a player would be punished by taking away playing time. With Detroit last year the head coach appeared to be oblivious when players were destroying chances of the team to be successful. a couple of good posters have described Reggie after the players only meeting and how he ran the offense determined not to shoot even a wide open shot. Andre after the players only meeting with an unmistaken look of a slacker especially on defense in the first and third quarters until the end of the season. Politics was in play. Somebody really powerful inhibited the coach from doing the right thing which would have been to remove the cancer to restore team chemistry. The two players, Reggie and Andre, had big weaknesses the season before last with their inability to defend. Reggie was clearly unhealthy but even though he didn't have the burst to run that pick and roll play at a high level, he could have shown his teammates that he cared about them and showed some spunk on defense. Reggie couldn't do anything well last season yet the head coach continued on featuring him as the starter. few coaches in the NBA would do that unless they were told to do it. And then there is Andre Drummond who showed his teammates that he was not willing to interested in playing solid defense or offering shot blocking or even getting back quickly on defense. SVG gave Andre instructions last summer in their exit interview that he wanted Andre to become a more dominate defensive player. Instead, AD became less engaged on defense than the previous season. What did the coach do about it? How many coaches would voluntarily allow their team to slide down hill willingly after watching their team get blown out in the first quarter because of lack of basic effort? Something was fractured within the players - coaches bond. Outside influence had to be involved where a player or players felt immune from any recourse and the coaches had no authority. Was it the owner - player relationships that twisted things into an ugly mess? Has that all been worked out now or will it happen after the Christmas holidays again? Last season everything hinged on what AD and EJ would bring to the table to improve Detroit's playoff position. Instead everything collapsed and the final games were pitiful.

I am happy Andre has lost 20 pounds. That isn't easy to do if you are a big man especially. I agree that is a good sign. There was so much dysfunction last year who can you trust to do the right thing? The coach get in your face if you are screwing up or don't come prepared to play. He is trying to help players become more successful. I always took raw emotion from coaches when they blasted me as something positive. They cared about me. If the owner tries to come to the rescue when that happens with sensitive players, he is not helping that player get better. He is causing dysfunction. Why is it that adults always make things so complicated? High school kids know how to tolerate coaches telling them what they need to do to improve. Some highly paid adult players take that stuff as ridicule. Not allowed in my contract. Andre and Reggie need to come back with a fresh perspective and learn how to become complete players. Many doubt that they can do it. If they change the sky is the limit. The old transgressions are out there and bringing it all up should motivate them. Several of us on this forum have pointed out the insanity of the past very well. Reporters are now doing it. So there is no hiding allowed for the suspect slackers this season. Maybe SVG will not listen to outside influence and risk getting fired while in the process of making hard decisions if things go south again. I think the owner gave Andre and Reggie a one year free pass and might allow SVG to trade players who do not get on his program this time around. And we have a different blend of players on the roster. We already have some players who want to play the game the right way. That will help. Go Pistons!

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

AD

Post  Sparma on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:15 am

Don, you score a lot of good points against AD. Still, if he really has lost 20 pounds over the summer, I give him a lot of credit for that. Not easy to do. I'm hoping we find him determined to be a better player, in the mold of the C Murph describes.

cool breeze wrote:
Murph wrote:I think the best course of action for Drummond would be to bag the low post offense completely and focus on rebounding, weak side shot blocking and improving his defense.  He is clearly a sub-par offensive player, and any focus his puts on his offense only takes away from his strength which is rebounding.  He should turn himself into a Ben Wallace type of offensive garbage man who only scores on put-backs, pick-and-roll dunks and alley-oops.  He could still score 10 or 12 ppg that way, with a 60% field goal percentage or higher.  And in the meantime, he could focus on rebounding, shot blocking and improving his defense.

And he needs to play all-out all the time.  He needs to play hard, with the understanding that he probably won't be playing late in the 4th quarter anyway, so who cares if he expends his energy early in the game or racks up early fouls.

If he did this, he could be a really special player.  SVG, are you listening?

Murph in defense of SVG coaching Drummond has been impossible. Everything you mentioned in this post is right on relating to What Drummond needs to give to this Piston team. Stan Van Gundy is no fool. He wants exactly what you have stated from Andre Drummond. However, Andre has other interests that do not include any of your suggestions. He is working on his shooting touch this summer. Last summer he worked on that baseline hook shot. Like you mentioned, Tom Gores has acted as Andre's driver in the past, Drummond has a hot line to the owner. This might be like being a high school basketball coach and fate has it that the superintendent has a son who is going out for the varsity and wants updates from the coach everyday as how things are going in practice and where will the son fit in position wise and then ask the coach to make his son the team captain. Murph it is not SVG's idea to feature Drummond so much on offense especially with that lame baseline hook shot. But I guess it tells us a lot about what kind of person the coach is to even stick around in that job. MONEY might be a motivator to allow dysfunction. Show me the money Mr. Owner and I will give him special rest periods in practice and 20 touches a game.  
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1071
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:49 am

Murph wrote:I think the best course of action for Drummond would be to bag the low post offense completely and focus on rebounding, weak side shot blocking and improving his defense.  He is clearly a sub-par offensive player, and any focus his puts on his offense only takes away from his strength which is rebounding.  He should turn himself into a Ben Wallace type of offensive garbage man who only scores on put-backs, pick-and-roll dunks and alley-oops.  He could still score 10 or 12 ppg that way, with a 60% field goal percentage or higher.  And in the meantime, he could focus on rebounding, shot blocking and improving his defense.

And he needs to play all-out all the time.  He needs to play hard, with the understanding that he probably won't be playing late in the 4th quarter anyway, so who cares if he expends his energy early in the game or racks up early fouls.

If he did this, he could be a really special player.  SVG, are you listening?

Murph in defense of SVG coaching Drummond has been impossible. Everything you mentioned in this post is right on relating to What Drummond needs to give to this Piston team. Stan Van Gundy is no fool. He wants exactly what you have stated from Andre Drummond. However, Andre has other interests that do not include any of your suggestions. He is working on his shooting touch this summer. Last summer he worked on that baseline hook shot. Like you mentioned, Tom Gores has acted as Andre's driver in the past, Drummond has a hot line to the owner. This might be like being a high school basketball coach and fate has it that the superintendent has a son who is going out for the varsity and wants updates from the coach everyday as how things are going in practice and where will the son fit in position wise and then ask the coach to make his son the team captain. Murph it is not SVG's idea to feature Drummond so much on offense especially with that lame baseline hook shot. But I guess it tells us a lot about what kind of person the coach is to even stick around in that job. MONEY might be a motivator to allow dysfunction. Show me the money Mr. Owner and I will give him special rest periods in practice and 20 touches a game.

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

AD

Post  Murph on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:02 am

I think the best course of action for Drummond would be to bag the low post offense completely and focus on rebounding, weak side shot blocking and improving his defense.  He is clearly a sub-par offensive player, and any focus his puts on his offense only takes away from his strength which is rebounding.  He should turn himself into a Ben Wallace type of offensive garbage man who only scores on put-backs, pick-and-roll dunks and alley-oops.  He could still score 10 or 12 ppg that way, with a 60% field goal percentage or higher.  And in the meantime, he could focus on rebounding, shot blocking and improving his defense.

And he needs to play all-out all the time.  He needs to play hard, with the understanding that he probably won't be playing late in the 4th quarter anyway, so who cares if he expends his energy early in the game or racks up early fouls.

If he did this, he could be a really special player. SVG, are you listening?
avatar
Murph

Posts : 966
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 57
Location : Wilton, CT

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  BallinD on Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:49 pm

Oracle, you may be confusing me with another poster.  I have not used the word homer directed at you or anyone else, but it may have been implied, and you picked up on that.  There's an old saying, If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one you hit is the one that yelps.

Nobody said stop looking for those guys with those tools either, nor implied that.  In fact, what I am saying is there are other tools just as valuable or more, and that the presence of those tools does not make one an elite, or even good player.

We seem to agree on that, so I don't know where the labels "bad way to think," or "totally disconnected thinking" come from other than a bit of venom mixed in with your logic, which does not in any way refute my post.




Oracle wrote:
BallinD wrote:In defense of the little guy, or just regular guy, I think height and length is great, Oracle, but we currently have two long freaks in Andre, at 6'11 with a 7'6" wingspan yet he struggles to get those "long arms" into position to block shots or protect the rim; the same for Weggie, with his 6'11" wingspan  and 6'3" height who neither blocks shots, gets steals, nor rebounds like the shorter Bradley.(That's just a bad way to think. Just because these guys don't use their tools, doesn't mean that you stop looking for guys with those tools. Totally disconnected thinking, or should be) They are our two worst defenders.  facepalm  There may be other, more pressing things to worry about in PistonLand.

Is it possible that heart, desire, footwork, smarts, positioning, film study could play as big a role in offense, defense, pound-for pound, as length and height in many cases?  Putting too much emphasis in the hard numbers, may prevent our ability to see the forest and the trees.  In this league, few jumpshooters straight up get their shots blocked or bothered, and shorter players shoot over taller, longer players on the regular.
Is it possible? Yes!  Of course it is...Isaiah Thomas (Vers. 1&2), Steph Curry, CP3, Ben Wallace, Iverson, Avery Bradley, Barkley, Moses Malone, Archibald, and so it goes.  What is the norm anyway?  Isn't it like a mean, where there are equal numbers above and below the level of the issue of concern?  Looking to the norm, tells you little of nothing.  Often the outliers are way more interesting and illustrative.  The norm is at best the baseline, but it gives you the Tony Mitchells of the world just as often as it gives you the Kawhi Leonards.

Is it the norm... hell no! Nobody in their right mind ignores the numbers/measurements, that's not realistic unless we use your favorite word... Homer  lol   Pray tell, who said ignore anything.  I simply said there may be other considerations just as important or more important.  

no offense intended, I just couldn't resist, since you regularly use that word when any of us start dreaming.  Not sure this applies at all, my argument is more expansive, while yours is limiting.  

Having said that, I do believe in this case you may have a point, but here's my problem with you guys. Guys?? I'm just one guy, not a pantheon of guys with a monolithic viewpoint.

Why is it you can't take someone saying that they would like to take a wait and see? Are you so sure that everything translates, that SVG's death bed conversion has made his system better?  Never said that, and I believe I have said quite often that we will have to wait and see a lot of things.  To me that is part of the excitement, rather than closing off possibilities cause youre not tall enough or your arms are not the longest.  That is what I have said and am saying here.  Please do not put words in my mouth.

I think we'll be alright, but I simply won't close the door and assume the stuff you're taking for granted.  What am I taking for granted here?  I have made no assertions and closed no doors, rather opened others.  The only assertion implied is that there is more to consider than height and length.  

It's not a question of being right or wrong, I hope you're right, but IMO, while we can trust, we should have the foresight to verify as well.
avatar
BallinD

Posts : 428
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Dare I say it :)

Post  Oracle on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:55 pm

BallinD wrote:In defense of the little guy, or just regular guy, I think height and length is great, Oracle, but we currently have two long freaks in Andre, at 6'11 with a 7'6" wingspan yet he struggles to get those "long arms" into position to block shots or protect the rim; the same for Weggie, with his 6'11" wingspan  and 6'3" height who neither blocks shots, gets steals, nor rebounds like the shorter Bradley.(That's just a bad way to think. Just because these guys don't use their tools, doesn't mean that you stop looking for guys with those tools. Totally disconnected thinking, or should be) They are our two worst defenders.  facepalm  There may be other, more pressing things to worry about in PistonLand.

Is it possible that heart, desire, footwork, smarts, positioning, film study could play as big a role in offense, defense, pound-for pound, as length and height in many cases?  Putting too much emphasis in the hard numbers, may prevent our ability to see the forest and the trees.  In this league, few jumpshooters straight up get their shots blocked or bothered, and shorter players shoot over taller, longer players on the regular.
Is it possible? Yes!

Is it the norm... hell no! Nobody in their right mind ignores the numbers/measurements, that's not realistic unless we use your favorite word... Homer  lol

no offense intended, I just couldn't resist, since you regularly use that word when any of us start dreaming.

Having said that, I do believe in this case you may have a point, but here's my problem with you guys.

Why is it you can't take someone saying that they would like to take a wait and see? Are you so sure that everything translates, that SVG's death bed conversion has made his system better?

I think we'll be alright, but I simply won't close the door and assume the stuff you're taking for granted.

It's not a question of being right or wrong, I hope you're right, but IMO, while we can trust, we should have the foresight to verify as well.
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6110
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Defense

Post  BallinD on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:03 pm

In defense of the little guy, or just regular guy, I think height and length is great, Oracle, but we currently have two long freaks in Andre, at 6'11 with a 7'6" wingspan yet he struggles to get those "long arms" into position to block shots or protect the rim; the same for Weggie, with his 6'11" wingspan  and 6'3" height who neither blocks shots, gets steals, nor rebounds like the shorter Bradley.  They are our two worst defenders.  facepalm  There may be other, more pressing things to worry about in PistonLand.

Is it possible that heart, desire, footwork, smarts, positioning, film study could play as big a role in offense, defense, pound-for pound, as length and height in many cases?  Putting too much emphasis in the hard numbers, may prevent our ability to see the forest and the trees. In this league, few jumpshooters straight up get their shots blocked or bothered, and shorter players shoot over taller, longer players on the regular.


Last edited by BallinD on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops)
avatar
BallinD

Posts : 428
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

View user profile

Back to top Go down

I guess they will trade Irving... and thoughts

Post  Oracle on Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:02 pm

Cavs just pick up Derrick Rose.

Other areas of concern:

Stanley Johnson: This is a concern, but not a huge one, because he's been able to defend SF's much better than SG's. But his height, while not as bad as Bradley, still puts him at a disadvantage once taller SF's realize that they can shoot over him easily because he doesn't jump that high.

Bradley: Don, I did watch a little Bradley footage. I specifically stayed away from the highlight stuff and went to actual full games. One thing I noticed is the same issue I raised with Stanley, but it's much worse. Bradley is very good in using his body and tenacity to keep PG's & SG's from backing him down too low. He has more success with PG's which he tends to guard more to hide Thomas.

But what I saw from players like Wall is that when they didn't blow by him, they simply rise up and shoot, and Bradley has to just stand there and hope they miss. He has no defense against taller players like that, they rise very high and jumping to get a hand there isn't an option.

But against most teams he should be alright, especially if our help defense is working properly, but it is a concern.
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6110
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Don...

Post  Oracle on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:34 pm

You and others want to believe that I'm negative about Bradley and no matter what I say, you're still going to believe it was because of KCP.

It doesn't matter that I've said I think he's an upgrade over KCP on both sides of the ball... yeah, that's what I said, but it doesn't register when all you want is to come to the conclusion you want to. Being an upgrade in a vacuum is one thing, my negativity is how that works in the real world, not on paper.

With Bradley, I need to take a wait and see posture because of the following.

1. We're a lot smaller now with the loss of KCP & Morris across the board. Stanley is smaller, the players brought in are smaller, and Bradley is smaller. That bothers me.
2. Bradley played well in Boston's system, but so did a lot of scrubs they just let go. You saw them as good, like some of GS's scrubs, but they look good in good systems surrounded by stars. How much is them and how much is their performance from the system.

Some players translate to other systems very well, others don't. I don't think it matters much here if Reggie plays well, I'm the guy you call negative for predicting a 3rd-6th seed finish for the team. I'd hate to find guys more negative than I am.

My biggest concern is the way you're thinking, that Bradley is a piece to build around, which better minds than ours have already concluded he isn't(Boston and the rest of the league, except for here).

Then finally, Bradley(who should just be a rental) represents to me, a continuation of bad planning by SVG. I see next season as a good one, but beyond that, there is no plan at all with the current players except resign Bradley, and IMO, that's worse than no plan, it's terrible.

We do have one good sized player if he gets to play in Luke "I'll slap you if you get close enough" Kennard. Here's how his Mom describes him to her friends  lol


Bottom line: We're in rebuild mode, but we're pretending that we aren't.
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6110
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:59 pm

BallinD wrote:As much as I hate to say it, this question IMHO is so nuanced that it makes me hate to speak on it.  But for this upcoming season, I think there are four possibilities.

Andre: The Giant in talent, stature, measurables, athleticism, but a mental midget, not a fighter, not a winner, but could learn to be.

Reggie: So many ifs here, but if health, if attitudinal shift, if ability to make a decision on the fly, and not after five dribbles, then he could be a special and transcendent talent for us.  Unlikely.

Bradley: As sure a thing, barring health issues, that you could wish for.  Smart, intense, hates to lose, defends like hell and scratches like a wild cat for points, while learning how to shoot from three at an elite level.  May (most likely) have one more step of upside to be explored before he peaks.

Tobias: With his low usage, high efficiency all around offensive game, decent defense, and ability to get his shot when he wants to, he is also very consistently good, but rarely great, possibly, partly because Reggie appears to hate him.

My vote goes to...whoever earns it.
guitar

I'll bet that if SVG actually did make the decisions for the Pistons that Jackson would be playing in Denver and Detroit would have a young pass first type point guard who will make mistakes at first but could become a really good NBA player. Andre wants Jackson. What Andre wants, Andre gets it seems. Unless SVG has been watching Jackson practice and has had several physicians give a thumbs up regarding Reggie's cardio health, why would he gamble again with Reggie? That puzzles me but as some believe, SVG is just a puppet master and Tom Gores makes all trade decisions and consults with Andre first. As none of us can know the truth about how Detroit makes their decisions on players and trades, we have to hope that Avery Bradley has a positive effect on players like Jackson and Drummond. He has to take charge of the team and remove the chance of people with great power who are not on the roster meddle with the team chemistry. Jackson highly respects Bradley has he has stated to the press. Jackson is not the type of player who shares the basketball with just any teammate. That is his big problem. But maybe no players only meeting will need to take place if Bradley sets the tone. Guys like Harris, Johnson, Bullock, Kennard are players who love playing Bradley's style. If things go the right way the players with issues will have to get on board or life could be very difficult for them this year unless the owner decides to trade the players who like playing the right way. That could still happen.

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

The old injury bug sure can mess things up. Hard luck for the Suns and Brandon Knight

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:42 pm

As one of Brandon Knight's biggest supporters when he was drafted and played for the Pistons, I sure feel for Brandon Knight today. He has suffered another knee injury and this time it was a serious ACL type injury. Who can predict what will happen in the future? I had Knight as a player who might have a great season with the Suns this time around. He had just fully recovered from his previous injury and now it appears he will be out for at least a year.

At least Knight has scored some serious money playing basketball. Some of us are among the old players who sustained the dreaded ACL when physicians couldn't even diagnose it. Some of my friends went ahead to endure what was basically experimental type surgery with large incisions that solved nothing and made things a lot worse. In my case, I waited several years living with the knee popping out now and then and giving up basketball until my brother found a surgeon who immediately was able to have me sit down and then he lifted my leg and turned the lower leg which immediately took my knee completely out of joint. The success rate today is incredible but still athletes who suffer a serious ACL injury may never find their way back to the hardwood playing the same reckless way they did before sustaining the injury.

It is so difficult to put an NBA team together that bond and become a big winner. You need a lot of luck especially these highly paid NBA players to be physically healthy at draft time and then they need supreme luck to avoid a career ending injury crusher like Knight just experienced. I have never forgotten how Knight addressed the press after his rookie season and stated that he was a weak defender. He promised Piston fans that he would be working on his defense for the entire summer and that is just what he did too.

Knight was a very effective defensive player who took the brunt of abuse from the press and fans when the Pistons couldn't pull things together. But lost in the blame game at the time was the fact that he had to play the pick and roll with Monroe and Maxiell. Impossible to do that but the story line was that Knight is just not a point guard and Joe Dumars got so exited with the possibility to trade him to the Bucks that he threw in Middleton when no other NBA team was even interested in Jennings. Talk about being brain dead as a GM. John Hammond rejected Charlie V and Joe grabbed him thinking Charlie would make Detroit great again of course forgetting all about the fact that most good teams win with their defense. Then Joe gets burned again with a trade that will go down as one of the dumbest of all time in Piston history.
Joe Dumars was one of my favorite Piston players of all time so it is very difficult for me to understand what he did in the late stages of his other job.

cool breeze

Posts : 2632
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Best Player

Post  BallinD on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:27 pm

As much as I hate to say it, this question IMHO is so nuanced that it makes me hate to speak on it. But for this upcoming season, I think there are four possibilities.

Andre: The Giant in talent, stature, measurables, athleticism, but a mental midget, not a fighter, not a winner, but could learn to be.

Reggie: So many ifs here, but if health, if attitudinal shift, if ability to make a decision on the fly, and not after five dribbles, then he could be a special and transcendent talent for us. Unlikely.

Bradley: As sure a thing, barring health issues, that you could wish for. Smart, intense, hates to lose, defends like hell and scratches like a wild cat for points, while learning how to shoot from three at an elite level. May (most likely) have one more step of upside to be explored before he peaks.

Tobias: With his low usage, high efficiency all around offensive game, decent defense, and ability to get his shot when he wants to, he is also very consistently good, but rarely great, possibly, partly because Reggie appears to hate him.

My vote goes to...whoever earns it.
guitar
avatar
BallinD

Posts : 428
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 29 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 17 ... 29  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum