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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 12, 2017 1:50 am

deusXango wrote:
Oracle wrote:I also think Boban can steal major minutes from Drummond if SVG plays it fair!
That's the unaddressed elephant in the room; SVG doesn't play fair with this teams players and fans ignore it, saying SVG is/was a great coach back in the day.

After Reggie's "injury" why didn't SVG allow Ish to play out the string; Ish did have the team on a roll finally.

Replacing Harris in the starting lineup with Leuer to justify Reggie's inadequate play as our PG; Harris never had the consistent piss-poor showings that Leuer had, but he never regained his starting spot.

Playing KCP all those non-productive minutes when someone else should've been on the floor (Johnson) and allowing him to continue to hoist up shots that clanged off the rim; who else on the team had that leeway?

Not playing Ellenson earlier in the season once it was realized that Morris was less than 100% and Leuer was sucking; why wasn't Ellenson ever paired with Harris on the court?

When/how did Morris become our SF when last year he was our PF when we made the playoffs? Isn't Morris and Harris the same size? The only major difference is Harris has a more diversified game.

Beno was removed from the rotation for what now? I forget. It was clear to me that Smith coming off the bench behind Jackson was too much of a strain on the team (different styles of play and when Ish tried to play like Reggie, he sucked); Ish and Beno were the two best PG's on this team all year IMHO.

I know Boban can "steal" major minutes from Drummond, because he should've been playing major minutes this year, instead of Andre and Baynes eating up all the minutes at the center spot; damn the 3pointers, quality big man play still rules in this league and we had some quality big men that were not deployed properly.

dX Perhaps with all those skull sessions going on with SVG working his tail off non stop, he will motivate Andre Drummond even more than he did this past season. Last season Andre was giving the power to decide who would be coaching him an for sure he didn't want to hear anything that shooting coach had to say about shooting foul shots. This coming season maybe after all that hard work by the Piston coaches in figuring out sound strategy to get that 8th playoff spot nailed down they will finally give Andre what he wants. So far they have given him everything he has asked for so he would agree to sign his current contract. I know that was a very difficult thing to get done too because everyone was after Andre to come play with their team. This coming season I expect Stan Van Gundy to expand Andre's role on this team. He has already make a huge imprint by being the captain and team leader but next year he will assume the role of player assistant coach and part time snitch. He will be coaching the big men including Boban and get him up to speed on how to play interior defense and the pick and roll play. The mistake a lot of coaches make is telling big men to keep their arms up when you are defending the paint and be ready for drivers and help out your teammates on the baseline drives. Andre knowns that is the wrong thing to do. You need to play smart and save your energy after you make it back on defense. Don't bother trying to block shots either because you will just foul out quicker. And for sure don't spend any time trying to see where your assigned player is located and try to box him out and keep him off the boards. The ball will most likely come your way anyway so save your energy. And then Andre will set Boban down and tell him when to switch on the pick and roll play. Stan will think by giving Andre an even bigger role on the team, he will be more "engaged". Yes tha word came up again and that is the only negative thing that Stan Van Gundy can think of relating to his captain. Under the new plan where Andre becomes a player-assistant coach, Boban will get more minutes. This way Andre can watch more carefully by sitting on the bench instead of playing al lot o minutes. Everybody wins as the fans want to see a lot more of Boban and Andre is all for pleasing the fans. Stan will be happy as well as all he wants is for Andre to be happy. Then next summer Andre will room with SVG at the Chicago Combine to look over the new talent. Andre likes to share his wisdom with the young guys.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 12, 2017 1:24 am

Oracle wrote:You seriously think the playoffs in the east are good??? Where are your standards?

BTW, name the team in the east that would be anything if they lost their starting PG and he never fully recovered... other than Cleveland, there isn't any, and they would struggle without Irving!

Tell me how good would Boston be without Thomas, the Wizards without Wall... let's get real, injury and the resulting coaching response to that injury doomed us... sh!t happens.

But the fact is that they have those players and they still aren't that good.

You praised the Bucks, but any basketball eye would have seen that it was the weakness of Toronto that made that series interesting, the Bucks are a very sub standard team.

Every team in the east had a pretty bad year, from top to bottom, this was not the conference that dominated the west last season.

Boston as the #1 seed is a freaking joke, that's a weak team, and the Wizards can't seem to get it together on the road against a team they should pummel.

Cleveland got lucky getting the #2 seed because it paired them up with all of the teams that they easily beat, it was the Wizards they needed to avoid because they would beat Cleveland in a 7 game series.

You always use the Wizards to talk about how they beat us, do you remember the bad boys, the 2004 team, both of which damn near lost to Utah every time, even when they were bad. In all of your travels, have you never learned that some teams are just bad matchups? Come on Don... however, IMO, if SVG played Boban against the Wizards, we'd do a lot better and again, IMO, win!

I also think Boban can steal major minutes from Drummond if SVG plays it fair!

Oracle I am not sure how you decided that I think that the Eastern Conference has any quality teams with the exception of Cleveland. The Bucks have the potential to have an outstanding team but they would need to keep their core and develop them for several seasons. My emphasis for starting over with the Pistons including the entire coaching staff is the fact that our Pistons were blown out by the Eastern Conference teams this season. I think that Boston plays the game the right way and they have excellent coaching. Washington has three players I like in Wall, Beal, and Gortat. Porter could become a solid player too. No the eastern Conference sucks that our Pistons are the most predictable and the least fun to watch as a spectator of any Eastern conference team. We have to face it we have the more low basketball IQ players than any other team. The players cannot execute a 2nd or 3rd option in their half court offense. They are brain dead on defense but Stan Van Gundy says that the defense has improved. Detroit couldn't even beat Miami in that big game at the end of the season. I thought that after that game, Tom Gores would be firing Stan Van Gundy. But no Tom likes the way the Pistons play. He loves it that Andre Drummond is the team captain. He set a great example in every way. The children need supervision but the teacher is out smoking weed on the playground. Come on boys just shoot the 3 damn it all. What's wrong with you. Back when I coached in Orlando we made those 3s. Now get out there and listen to Andre. He is your leader.

BLOW IT UP AND FIRE THE COACHES. The head coach has had some assistant coaches with him for 3 years and nobody has shown any improvement. Stan Van Gundy says everything in great
and will not manage. Stan will not bring in new assistant coaches. It is not a coincidence that the point guards cannot defend anyone. Can the assistant coach who is in charge of the guards teach others how to play defense when he was never a good defender himself? And the head coach doesn't decide who will coach the big men. Andre Drummond makes all decisions in that area and by God that shooting coach better not even look Andre's way. Naw everything is under control and all we need is better 3 shooting damn it all. We will try to get Redick but his price is high yet he is worth it because made a lot of 3s in Orlando. And once KCP gets his money he will show you some fine 3 point shooting. And don't forget that Reggie hurt his knee but will be back 100% next year. And Andre is still so young and athletic. Is everyone working for the Pistons retarded as well as the sports writers who suck this junk up? Is there not more to playing basketball than just shooting 3 point shots and hoping players can make more of them? Good defense creates good offense at least some of the time doesn't it? Or is that theory out now that Stan Van Gundy is coming back with the teal uniforms? We like to play soft and easy these days in the Motor City a new era is here so get used to it. That will be the surprise strategy when the team opens in the Motor City. Yes Piston management can just concentrate on having a good bowel movement because they are banking on making the playoffs next year knowing all of the other NBA teams in the Eastern conference are floundering as well. But at least some of those teams have a reasonable plan to succeed. Stan Van Gundy is all smoke and mirrors and all he is working towards to getting that 8th spot next year and having fun at the Chicago combine. It will all depend on Reggie and Andre. Won't that be exciting stuff! I wonder how many games the owner will attend next year. Who in their right mind would want to watch this dysfunctional team next season let alone purchase a ticket? The word is DULL. The Pistons are dead in the water and a very DULL team with horrible team chemistry. That should worry somebody who gets paid in the Piston organization.

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Tell me I'm wrong

Post  deusXango on Thu May 11, 2017 9:38 pm

Oracle wrote:I also think Boban can steal major minutes from Drummond if SVG plays it fair!
That's the unaddressed elephant in the room; SVG doesn't play fair with this teams players and fans ignore it, saying SVG is/was a great coach back in the day.

After Reggie's "injury" why didn't SVG allow Ish to play out the string; Ish did have the team on a roll finally.

Replacing Harris in the starting lineup with Leuer to justify Reggie's inadequate play as our PG; Harris never had the consistent piss-poor showings that Leuer had, but he never regained his starting spot.

Playing KCP all those non-productive minutes when someone else should've been on the floor (Johnson) and allowing him to continue to hoist up shots that clanged off the rim; who else on the team had that leeway?

Not playing Ellenson earlier in the season once it was realized that Morris was less than 100% and Leuer was sucking; why wasn't Ellenson ever paired with Harris on the court?

When/how did Morris become our SF when last year he was our PF when we made the playoffs? Isn't Morris and Harris the same size? The only major difference is Harris has a more diversified game.

Beno was removed from the rotation for what now? I forget. It was clear to me that Smith coming off the bench behind Jackson was too much of a strain on the team (different styles of play and when Ish tried to play like Reggie, he sucked); Ish and Beno were the two best PG's on this team all year IMHO.

I know Boban can "steal" major minutes from Drummond, because he should've been playing major minutes this year, instead of Andre and Baynes eating up all the minutes at the center spot; damn the 3pointers, quality big man play still rules in this league and we had some quality big men that were not deployed properly.
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Don

Post  Oracle on Thu May 11, 2017 4:27 pm

You seriously think the playoffs in the east are good??? Where are your standards?

BTW, name the team in the east that would be anything if they lost their starting PG and he never fully recovered... other than Cleveland, there isn't any, and they would struggle without Irving!

Tell me how good would Boston be without Thomas, the Wizards without Wall... let's get real, injury and the resulting coaching response to that injury doomed us... sh!t happens.

But the fact is that they have those players and they still aren't that good.

You praised the Bucks, but any basketball eye would have seen that it was the weakness of Toronto that made that series interesting, the Bucks are a very sub standard team.

Every team in the east had a pretty bad year, from top to bottom, this was not the conference that dominated the west last season.

Boston as the #1 seed is a freaking joke, that's a weak team, and the Wizards can't seem to get it together on the road against a team they should pummel.

Cleveland got lucky getting the #2 seed because it paired them up with all of the teams that they easily beat, it was the Wizards they needed to avoid because they would beat Cleveland in a 7 game series.

You always use the Wizards to talk about how they beat us, do you remember the bad boys, the 2004 team, both of which damn near lost to Utah every time, even when they were bad. In all of your travels, have you never learned that some teams are just bad matchups? Come on Don... however, IMO, if SVG played Boban against the Wizards, we'd do a lot better and again, IMO, win!

I also think Boban can steal major minutes from Drummond if SVG plays it fair!
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Piston fans think back to December, January, Feb., March and April remembering the first, third and fourth quarter of all Piston games and then see how the Pistons fit with any team in the playoffs

Post  cool breeze on Thu May 11, 2017 9:05 am

Failure to be real and look at how our Pistons got beat this past season in regular season games by teams that were playing the 2nd of back to back games and then tell yourself you are not ready for this scam to end. Stan Van Gundy says that the Pistons are set and there are no real holes in his team. He just wants to reinforce and make some minor changes and everything will be great. Reggie will come back and be a one man show again too like 2 seasons ago. Andre Drummond is a great team leader who will make 85% of his free throws and become a great defender. KCP will suddenly after signing a big contract suddenly become a adequate ball handler, develop a change of pace, stop dribble penetration and make better decisions on pick and roll plays and develop a mid range game to go with his 44 percent 3 point shooting that will happen next year. Detroit will play exceptionally well with Jon Leuer and Andre Drummond guarding the paint. Leuer will stop Horeford dead in his tracks unlike the Washington big men in this playoff series. Our point guards will sizzle with their one on one dribble happy circus show and will never rest again on defense. Detroit will get better 3 point shots next season because opposing teams will never score easily with layups in the paint so our players will be able to get some easy baskets themselves because Detroit will become a solid defensive team. Don't worry even though the same players I have talked about got their asses handed to them night in and night out last year where the team was usually blown out in the first quarter with our starters against opposing starters, this next season will be much different. There is no need to change anything. We will be successful on offense where 4 players stand around and do not move without the ball. when the ball goes down to the team leader, he will out fox everyone with his decision making skills and shoot for a high percentage and get fouled and make his foul shots. the team leader will be playing in crunch time this next season for sure too so don't worry at all. The 4 players standing at their spots while the point guard creates won't create a situation where the entire Piston team will be easy to guard. No that will never happen again. Players who seldom touch the basketball on offense will receive a spot on pass and not at the end of the shot clock either. Everything will suddenly change and you fans will forget all about this past season where scrub teams blew out the Pistons not because opposing teams were scoring 36 points in the first and 4th quarter and then their starters rested on the bench having to play only limited minutes. John Wall, Bradley Beal, Gortat, Otto Porter the team that knew they would have an easy night playing Detroit will no longer be able to make unopposed layups. Anthony Davis will not be able to score in everyday possible against the Piston team leader.

Piston fans will project 44 to 50 wins next year. We do not need to blow up this team. Are you kidding? We have the fastest center in the league. Look at his rebounding stats. Opposing teams never push the basketball because our starting center is known for his habit of running fast back on defense to protect the paint. His potential is off the charts. No way should Detroit try to move his contract. No Detroit needs to sign Pope to a max contract. Every team in the league wants KCP bad. Pope is a top 10 2 guard in the NBA right??????????????? Andre has just had a nose job and now he will be even faster. SVG has a new dog that will help with planning strategy next season too. The Bucks don't have the team of the future after Labron says he has had enough. At that moment our Pistons will be a great team. Funny but I haven't watched one Piston player who could start for any NBA team that made the playoffs. But sorry for saying that I know you should never look at past history to predict what will happen in the future. Just add JJ Redick who is in his prime now and a great defender. He will be able to hit those contested 3 point shots in SVG's offense where the shooter gets the ball with 3 seconds left in the shot clock or they shoot hit with 21 seconds to go in the shot clock. Defenses really have to work hard to defend players on our Piston team. There is no standing around at all. The screens our players set are incredible. Our pick and roll defense is the best in the league. Reggie Jackson will be fantastic and make 15 out of 44 shots he takes a game. Ish will shoot only 24 times a game. The rest of the players will really enjoy another season of playing with Andre and Reggie.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed May 10, 2017 10:07 pm

deusXango wrote:Ash Vanclay:
Don’t give the ball to Drummond in the post in the half court offense. - He's joking... I'm NOT!

In all seriousness though, the easiest way to fix this is to aim not to play a half court offense. Run the ball at every possible opportunity; reduce the chances of playing in the half court offense at all times. The Pistons had some of their best play sequences out in the open court. - Yes, this is exactly the offense we had when Reggie was out, and it's the offense that triggers the best in Harris, KCP & Drummond. Harris has more space to operate, KCP's assists go up and Drummond is engaged. No silly post ups, most action happens in transition and we pressure the defense of other teams... I loved this style for us.

Alternatively to this they need to make sure that the ball moves around but not just moving for the sake of moving it.  Move the ball with intent, and not only that there needs to be a focus on player movement and spacing. Let’s be honest here, nothing I’ve said is a new point. - KCP's movement when utilized like RIP is one hell of a decoy, but even more it forces a lot of switching which eventually leads to a mismatch somewhere, and they were taking advantage of that regularly.

Oracle's astute remarks in red

This is exactly the springboard I've needed to make my point of Drummond growing up and taking his career seriously; this 1 in 4 out offense hurts Drummond more than any player on the team. Wise on several occasions has made the observation that SVG has misused KCP's skills by demanding something from him
that doesn't fit his game, i.e. a shooter instead of a scorer...the same holds true for Drummond, only to a greater extent.

Who's the fastest big man in the NBA from end-to-end? Who's the most athletic (without long, complicated argument)? The point I'm offering is, Drummond's lack of an effective post game (which is a half court expectation) is more than compensated with his fast break skills (a bigger LeBron?). The pick and roll is to feature Reggie's game, but when Ish ran the team, with his run & gun style, not only did KCP's and Harris game look much better, but Drummond had started to dominate with consecutive 20/20 nights and he was blocking shots and playing the best defense he's played since becoming a Piston! Hell, everybody was playing stellar defense!! The offense inspired the defense and the defense ignited the offense...we were rolling and then SVG f@cked that up with stopping our effective run & gun by reinstating Reggie to the starting lineup to lead the proven less effective 1 in 4 out featuring the P & R. During the run & gun offense there wasn't the pure hate and disgust aimed at Drummond like it is now. Everything wrong with the Pistons is because of Drummond and his lack of this and that, but every excuse for our failure begins with Reggie's "injury." If this was not a serious injury, why is Reggie's worth at it's lowest level? He's been treated, tested his recovery, had an awesome practice, and now an offseason to further rehab this bump in the road...SVG has said he expects Reggie to come back better than ever and fans are following suit by buying into that sh!t because he was so close to being decent two years ago. I strayed; Drummond's offensive game is more like a SF than it is to the classic, plodding, center. Think Magic Johnson; who had ever heard of a 6' 9" PG (the biggest man on the team) until Jud Heathcoat had the basketball insight to evaluate his talent and the courage to coach what he saw. Larry Bird had the same skillset and was a far superior shooter, but he never played PG! I'm not comparing Drummond to Magic or Bird, but I am comparing an open minded college coach to a closed minded professional coach, who's stuck in the past.

Drummond has more trade value than anyone on the team...has anyone ever given any thought to what "Pop," or Budenholzer, or Stevens, or Hammond, or even Phillip would do with Drummond? One things for damn sure, they wouldn't have him living under the bus. Stanley Johnson has some trade value, as do Ellenson, believe it or not and it has nothing to do with contracts...I've gone from the cheapest rookie contract to the outrageous max (let some people tell it) that Drummond is signed to and playoff teams would love to have them, and use them to get better! Are we using them in the most effective manner and if not, why?! I'm with you Oracle, this team doesn't need to be blown up, but we do need a new coach. We keep going down the rabbit hole and it'll be too late before we know it.

But dX you have not mentioned DEFENSE. That is where Andre Drummond hurts any team. And I cannot believe that Drummond would be anywhere but on the bench if Pop was coaching the Pistons. I wish that I could believe what some of you are buying into relating to Drummond. At UCONN he didn't get along with his coaches who couldn't get Andre to agree to learn how to not hurt their team on defense. Drummond's last game showed what he learned in college when he fouled out while playing his game. Now on the Pistons he is even more dangerous because he believes that he knows it all now that he is the team leader. Not to worry for you Drummond fans because he will be with the team for a long time until his big contract expires. Tell me the Spurs would take on his contract?

One final point relating to SVG's observations about lack of 3 point shooting. When you are a coach and do not obtain players who will or can't defend anyone, then your opponent will score a lot and your players will be taking the ball out of bounds a lot. That means you seldom get to run the court and get quick easy shots. The defense is so damn bad and the blame rests directly on that big man you said is the most athletic and fastest big man in the game. If he is so quick why didn't he get that rebound instead of allowing Whiteside to tip the ball in to end Detroit's playoff chances. That was the captain and team leader leading his team and I can't believe fans have not seen enough. Bring out the teal.

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Thanks Oracle, you 'da man!

Post  deusXango on Wed May 10, 2017 9:36 pm

Ash Vanclay:
Don’t give the ball to Drummond in the post in the half court offense. - He's joking... I'm NOT!

In all seriousness though, the easiest way to fix this is to aim not to play a half court offense. Run the ball at every possible opportunity; reduce the chances of playing in the half court offense at all times. The Pistons had some of their best play sequences out in the open court. - Yes, this is exactly the offense we had when Reggie was out, and it's the offense that triggers the best in Harris, KCP & Drummond. Harris has more space to operate, KCP's assists go up and Drummond is engaged. No silly post ups, most action happens in transition and we pressure the defense of other teams... I loved this style for us.

Alternatively to this they need to make sure that the ball moves around but not just moving for the sake of moving it.  Move the ball with intent, and not only that there needs to be a focus on player movement and spacing. Let’s be honest here, nothing I’ve said is a new point. - KCP's movement when utilized like RIP is one hell of a decoy, but even more it forces a lot of switching which eventually leads to a mismatch somewhere, and they were taking advantage of that regularly.

Oracle's astute remarks in red

This is exactly the springboard I've needed to make my point of Drummond growing up and taking his career seriously; this 1 in 4 out offense hurts Drummond more than any player on the team. Wise on several occasions has made the observation that SVG has misused KCP's skills by demanding something from him
that doesn't fit his game, i.e. a shooter instead of a scorer...the same holds true for Drummond, only to a greater extent.

Who's the fastest big man in the NBA from end-to-end? Who's the most athletic (without long, complicated argument)? The point I'm offering is, Drummond's lack of an effective post game (which is a half court expectation) is more than compensated with his fast break skills (a bigger LeBron?). The pick and roll is to feature Reggie's game, but when Ish ran the team, with his run & gun style, not only did KCP's and Harris game look much better, but Drummond had started to dominate with consecutive 20/20 nights and he was blocking shots and playing the best defense he's played since becoming a Piston! Hell, everybody was playing stellar defense!! The offense inspired the defense and the defense ignited the offense...we were rolling and then SVG f@cked that up with stopping our effective run & gun by reinstating Reggie to the starting lineup to lead the proven less effective 1 in 4 out featuring the P & R. During the run & gun offense there wasn't the pure hate and disgust aimed at Drummond like it is now. Everything wrong with the Pistons is because of Drummond and his lack of this and that, but every excuse for our failure begins with Reggie's "injury." If this was not a serious injury, why is Reggie's worth at it's lowest level? He's been treated, tested his recovery, had an awesome practice, and now an offseason to further rehab this bump in the road...SVG has said he expects Reggie to come back better than ever and fans are following suit by buying into that sh!t because he was so close to being decent two years ago. I strayed; Drummond's offensive game is more like a SF than it is to the classic, plodding, center. Think Magic Johnson; who had ever heard of a 6' 9" PG (the biggest man on the team) until Jud Heathcoat had the basketball insight to evaluate his talent and the courage to coach what he saw. Larry Bird had the same skillset and was a far superior shooter, but he never played PG! I'm not comparing Drummond to Magic or Bird, but I am comparing an open minded college coach to a closed minded professional coach, who's stuck in the past.

Drummond has more trade value than anyone on the team...has anyone ever given any thought to what "Pop," or Budenholzer, or Stevens, or Hammond, or even Phillip would do with Drummond? One things for damn sure, they wouldn't have him living under the bus. Stanley Johnson has some trade value, as do Ellenson, believe it or not and it has nothing to do with contracts...I've gone from the cheapest rookie contract to the outrageous max (let some people tell it) that Drummond is signed to and playoff teams would love to have them, and use them to get better! Are we using them in the most effective manner and if not, why?! I'm with you Oracle, this team doesn't need to be blown up, but we do need a new coach. We keep going down the rabbit hole and it'll be too late before we know it.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed May 10, 2017 5:19 pm

Oracle wrote:If we had the TOP pick, then at least we could have a discussion about blowing things up, but without a true centerpiece, if you blow it up, who do you build around?

You can keep dreaming that we can land a superstar in trade, but newsflash, the only superstars that we need would have to approve of the trade, and you all have seen that movie before. Even with the top pick, nowadays it's hard to really project if that person will be the person you think he is, it's not like wen we drafted Zeke, proven ability in the toughest of situations, a national champion from a great program with high IQ and character.

Once you eliminate the blow-up case, whatever is left is what we're dealing with. Here is part of an article with my comments in red.

http://pistonpowered.com/2017/05/10/fixing-detroit-pistons-problems/ wrote:1. The Pistons half court offense struggled with consistency throughout this past season. What is the easiest way to fix that for next season?

Mike Riina:
The likely answer is Reggie Jackson. If he’s healthy, the pick and roll offense goes back into effect and the offense will improve. Regardless of his health they could get better almost automatically by moving off the ball way more. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Reggie Bullock are the only players who’ll consistently make this important move. - We've seen this quite a bit, so the question is why the other players don't do this.

Andrew Hejka:
As the roster currently stands, the Detroit Pistons are a high-volume two-point shooting team, which isn’t a recipe for success in the modern-day NBA. Combine that with the fact that even though they ranked top five in two-pointers taken, they were in the bottom third in two-point field goal percentage, at only 41.9 percent, and this is more of a recipe for disaster. - You can win in the NBA shooting 2's, but it requires you to defend, especially the 3 point shot, a hell of a lot better than we have.

The obvious solution is for Marcus Morris to step up and shoot better than 46 percent from two-point range. However, the development of a reliable post game for Andre Drummond would also go a long way. It would create an inside-out effect for the offense, while allowing Detroit to run sets through him. - Sadly, we need to stop feeding Drummond in the post, it's a waste! Drummond is great if we can lob it to him, but anything else is an adventure, we need to stop him from thinking offense, become a Ben Wallace and defend. SVG has to step up to the plate and tell his ass the post move experiment is effing over.

Ash Vanclay:
Don’t give the ball to Drummond in the post in the half court offense. - He's joking... I'm NOT!

In all seriousness though, the easiest way to fix this is to aim not to play a half court offense. Run the ball at every possible opportunity; reduce the chances of playing in the half court offense at all times. The Pistons had some of their best play sequences out in the open court. - Yes, this is exactly the offense we had when Reggie was out, and it's the offense that triggers the best in Harris, KCP & Drummond. Harris has more space to operate, KCP's assists go up and Drummond is engaged. No silly post ups, most action happens in transition and we pressure the defense of other teams... I loved this style for us.

Alternatively to this they need to make sure that the ball moves around but not just moving for the sake of moving it.  Move the ball with intent, and not only that there needs to be a focus on player movement and spacing. Let’s be honest here, nothing I’ve said is a new point. - KCP's movement when utilized like RIP is one hell of a decoy, but even more it forces a lot of switching which eventually leads to a mismatch somewhere, and they were taking advantage of that regularly.
Don, I agree we can get better, but it's not all on the players, they're a lot better than you appear to think.

The Pistons are the perfect candidate to BLOW IT UP. Detroit needs to remove the cancer. Andre Drummond is the cancer if anyone doesn't already know. Not only is Drummond a lazy player, he is a low basketball IQ player who has the highest salary on the team and because of Stan Van Gundy and Tom Gores, he believes that he is the team leader. What in hell do the remaining players do with that insanity? What is wrong with giving away Drummond because it is clear to me that management knows that there is not a team in the league that would take on his contract. SVG removed Josh Smith from the team. Why not do the same thing with Drummond. Just release the big guy and wish him luck. I am not sure if the team can spread the money out longer so the impact is not as great as it is with him on the team, can that be done. This team will not get better as long as he is on the team. The guy snitched after the team meeting. The players do not trust him. What is the big deal? Admit the mistake and move on. This fall we start Boban and let the young players develop and hopefully get a chance at the first overall pick in the 2018 draft. Move Jackson if possible and only bring on aging vets who have been stars in the past who have high character and can teach the young Piston players the ropes.

This management team should be fired now as well. First off did they really think that this team could function well designating Drummond and Jackson as the team leaders? Those two formed a click. The rest of the players were outside the inner circle of Jackson, Drummond and Van Gundy. Then Jackson couldn't play so that screwed up Big Stan Van Gundy's plan. The season before the team had Blake as the stabilizing force on the team. He was old and fans couldn't understand why he was there. But Drummond and Jackson are like small children who think they can do anything without doing the work. Their teammates never respected Stan's leaders for many reasons. One big reason is that neither player plays the right way. Neither player gives a crap about providing effort on defense or even learning how to rotate properly. Yet they are the leaders.

So Oracle if you don't blow up the team then you are going to see Andre Drummond strut around before the games being the clown and thinking that is what you do when you are a leader. It will be another embarrassing year for all Piston fans and the teammates of jackson and Drummond. Detroit would have lost another season in their rebuild. Are the Pistons trying to make the playoffs in a conference full of bad teams or do they want to build a winner. Our two captains will never be on a team that wins big in the NBA. Everyone knows it even Stan Van Gundy. He is not interested in going to the finals. Stan has a cake job and he isn't ready to retire. He will milk it and until he gets fired. Meanwhile, the team will flounder deep in the toilet. The team chemistry will be as bad as it was this season. When you have a team that shows bad chemistry throughout the season and especially towards the end of the season and management decides to ignore that fact, then there is nothing to do but for fans to walk away from the Detroit Pistons until the owner agrees to sell the team or Stan Van Gundy is fired and the new guy removes Drummond and Jackson from the team. Detroit is a bad team in a bad conference. The team is already blown up and our key players belong in the D-League much more than Ellenson.

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Blowing the team up isn't wise!

Post  Oracle on Wed May 10, 2017 3:51 pm

If we had the TOP pick, then at least we could have a discussion about blowing things up, but without a true centerpiece, if you blow it up, who do you build around?

You can keep dreaming that we can land a superstar in trade, but newsflash, the only superstars that we need would have to approve of the trade, and you all have seen that movie before. Even with the top pick, nowadays it's hard to really project if that person will be the person you think he is, it's not like wen we drafted Zeke, proven ability in the toughest of situations, a national champion from a great program with high IQ and character.

Once you eliminate the blow-up case, whatever is left is what we're dealing with. Here is part of an article with my comments in red.

http://pistonpowered.com/2017/05/10/fixing-detroit-pistons-problems/ wrote:1. The Pistons half court offense struggled with consistency throughout this past season. What is the easiest way to fix that for next season?

Mike Riina:
The likely answer is Reggie Jackson. If he’s healthy, the pick and roll offense goes back into effect and the offense will improve. Regardless of his health they could get better almost automatically by moving off the ball way more. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Reggie Bullock are the only players who’ll consistently make this important move. - We've seen this quite a bit, so the question is why the other players don't do this.

Andrew Hejka:
As the roster currently stands, the Detroit Pistons are a high-volume two-point shooting team, which isn’t a recipe for success in the modern-day NBA. Combine that with the fact that even though they ranked top five in two-pointers taken, they were in the bottom third in two-point field goal percentage, at only 41.9 percent, and this is more of a recipe for disaster. - You can win in the NBA shooting 2's, but it requires you to defend, especially the 3 point shot, a hell of a lot better than we have.

The obvious solution is for Marcus Morris to step up and shoot better than 46 percent from two-point range. However, the development of a reliable post game for Andre Drummond would also go a long way. It would create an inside-out effect for the offense, while allowing Detroit to run sets through him. - Sadly, we need to stop feeding Drummond in the post, it's a waste! Drummond is great if we can lob it to him, but anything else is an adventure, we need to stop him from thinking offense, become a Ben Wallace and defend. SVG has to step up to the plate and tell his ass the post move experiment is effing over.

Ash Vanclay:
Don’t give the ball to Drummond in the post in the half court offense. - He's joking... I'm NOT!

In all seriousness though, the easiest way to fix this is to aim not to play a half court offense. Run the ball at every possible opportunity; reduce the chances of playing in the half court offense at all times. The Pistons had some of their best play sequences out in the open court. - Yes, this is exactly the offense we had when Reggie was out, and it's the offense that triggers the best in Harris, KCP & Drummond. Harris has more space to operate, KCP's assists go up and Drummond is engaged. No silly post ups, most action happens in transition and we pressure the defense of other teams... I loved this style for us.

Alternatively to this they need to make sure that the ball moves around but not just moving for the sake of moving it.  Move the ball with intent, and not only that there needs to be a focus on player movement and spacing. Let’s be honest here, nothing I’ve said is a new point. - KCP's movement when utilized like RIP is one hell of a decoy, but even more it forces a lot of switching which eventually leads to a mismatch somewhere, and they were taking advantage of that regularly.
Don, I agree we can get better, but it's not all on the players, they're a lot better than you appear to think.
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Adam Fromal article "Which NBA Teams Need To Start Over This Offseason?"

Post  cool breeze on Wed May 10, 2017 12:04 pm

At least Adam tells the truth about the Pistons. More than any other NBA team DETROIT NEEDS TO BLOW IT UP THIS OFFSEASON BUT HOW DO THEY REMOVE THE TRASH?

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Piston fans who write on this forum represent most other fans who do not participate. Ask yourself this question.. Why are we more worked up now after the season than during the season?

Post  cool breeze on Wed May 10, 2017 11:43 am

The answer is that during this season like many past seasons, reality sets in as we watch with our own eyes that the players management has signed are way below the standards necessary for an NBA team to be successful. We watched as the inept Andre Drummond played like a project player in almost every game and it was decided by management that he would be the team leader. They say that Stan Van Gundy is a micro manager. Did he believe that just because he handed Drummond a max contract Andre could suddenly play the game better and have the smarts of say Anthony Davis? Then the other question that I have comes up in my mind a lot. If you are a player in the NBA and continually get targeted as an inept defender and a guy who cannot execute defensively on the basic pick and roll play EVER and seem to look as if you are lost a lot and incapable of making sound basketball decisions quickly, why in hell would you want to be the team leader? If you become a leader, that is a huge responsibility. As a team leader you MUST prepare for each game mentally so you can LEAD by example by bringing outstanding energy and smart high basketball IQ decisions on the floor when it counts. Just knowing now that Andre Drummond thinks of himself as the team leader is mind-blowing after watching with my own eyes the bad example he set for himself let alone his team. You have to be a moron if you are a coach not to know the main problem as to why the Pistons failed this last season. It wasn't Reggie Jackson or Ish Smith or Stanley Johnson or T. Harris. Andre Drummond was the most dysfunctional player on the entire team in almost every game. He was the player who made key mistakes on defense in the paint with his inexcusable switches, lazy foot work, and failure to get his arms up or attempt to block shots. And Drummond was the guy who was in the wrong spots when the team tried to run weak side plays. He was also the man who attempted those long drawn out baseline hook shots.

The season in review was exactly this. We fans were excited awaiting a huge improvement within the team to be smarter decision makers on defense and offense. We expected the players to be more comfortable playing with each other and look as if they enjoyed playing together. Reggie was out but most players on the team responded by playing harder at first. Yet I watched Drummond carefully during this period and was amazed at how inept he still was when playing in the paint on defense. He just couldn't figure out what opposing teams were attempting to do or how opposing players were able to go around him for layups. Other teammates attempted to cover up for his mistakes but the team did not have a Ben Wallace type defensive ace. Drummond was supposed to be the ace defensive player. After all he was the self appointed team leader. Did he ever help any player out on defense all season long? NO NO NO. So fans please get real about what we have in Andre Drummond and this coaching staff that props him up. Stan Van Gundy has no control over Andre Drummond. Andre is the same man he was in college and every season he as played as a pro. He is not coachable. the head coach is afraid of him and never dares to confront Andre Drummond for fear that Andre with tank and really show management how bad he can play. Stan Van Gundy fears that this could happen so he props Drummond up saying yes you are the team leader Andre. You are a great basketball player. That is why SVG always turns his back to the action after a Drummond mind fart and yells at the players sitting on the bench. He has to take his frustration out on the other guys and blame them.

The reality is that Stan Van Gundy and Tom Gores now feel like they need to save face and not admit that it was insane to give Andre Drummond that max contract that no other team in the league would accept even if they wanted to give him away. That is why I say that Drummond cannot command even a late first round pick. The only way he would not destroy any team would be if he played for a guy like Pop who would give Drummond limited minutes like he gave Boban. Notice now management is trying to build up the image of Boban and now he supposed to step right in and become a key player. Please tell me how. Boban has problems running the court and getting back on defense. Opposing teams will push th basketball and get into the paint for easy shots. After all the rest of the players on the Piston team are not known as good defensive players. Stan Van Gundy picked all of them out and signed them as free agents because he was looking for better 3 point shooting. I believe Van Gundy had three power forwards in previous seasons that are better defenders and shooters than he has now. At least 2 of them played in the playoffs this season.

Please do not try to figure out how SVG's players with become players they are not suddenly come back next year and become winners. SVG bases all of his player decisions on guessing as to how well the player can shoot the 3 point shot. He makes bad guesses and over pays new players while letting better players go to other teams. Look at every position and you see players who are not good defenders. Then if you watched the Rockets-Spurs game last night where tough defensive players made it almost impossible for either team to score you would have to wonder what in hell Stan Van Gundy is doing. He has no regard for players who play tough defense. He tells the press reporters that the problem is poor 3 point shooting and he is out looking and ready to gamble on finding better shooters. His assistant coaches cannot teach the current players how to play really good defense because the assistants in charge have never been even average defenders themselves during their NBA careers. How can they teach something they themselves could never do. Meanwhile, Cleveland can destroy any team with their attention to detail on defense and no player sees the floor without permission from Labron James perhaps one of the best defenders at any position of all time. Remember when he played defense in the finals against players with dominate centers in the past? Stan Van Gundy is looking for more fools gold while he is working in the Motor City which is a place where tough hard nosed basketball is respected not ignored. We have a soft coach and his designated soft lazy team leader so just how excited are we supposed to be Mr. Gores and why should anyone purchase a season ticket? This team might get a following from the old Clippers fans not the current Clipper fans. The Pistons are now the Clippers.

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If Drummond thinks he is the team leader he has another thing coming when training camp starts

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 09, 2017 8:56 pm

Labron James is the team leader for Cleveland and Andre Drummond announced that he is the team leader of the Pistons. Players throughout the league want to play for Cleveland because of Labron James history as a great teammate, incredible skill level especially on defense but also offense, and extremely high basketball IQ. Andre Drummond is a good dancer in the circle with players watching his feet fly. What does that signify? Maybe hey guys there will be a great party after the game so let's get this game over with so we can party. Andre Drummond looking puzzled or mystified with that blank look on his face as he shuffles on defense. Everyone knows he had no idea what he should be doing from moment to moment. So which kind of teammates will Andre attract in the future? What about the situation where he rats out players to the press and coach after the private team meeting? After management bent over backward kissing Drummond's ass, he betrayed them by getting heavier, falling to get himself into top physical condition, and ignoring his weaknesses on the defensive end where he is most needed. Was his failure to make the necessary effort to secure a defensive rebound and allowing Whietside to tip the winning shot in which took Detroit out of the playoffs something that should be forgotten? It is pure fantasy to believe that Andre Drummond will ever be a key player on any team let alone a team leader. You have to be an excellent player who is dedicated and unselfish to be a team leader. In the NBA the team leader is the MAN not a guy who can't even play in crunch time not only because he can't shoot free throws but because he overall basketball IQ is off the charts LOW. Andre is trying hard to figure things out, but the game is just too fast for him. His concentration is one of the lowest of any NBA player currently in any rotation.

Some fans are trying to believe in the impossible. How will Drummond be great in the future when he can't do the basics now after so many years in the league? Andre Drummond is still a project player. If Andre is the team leader today, then Charlie V should have been the team leader after he signed that free agent contract. I think this nonsense started last summer with Stan Van Gundy and Tom Gores as they were kissing Drummond's ass so he would agree to sign that stupid contract that management will never live down. Yes you will be the highest paid player Andre so look you will be the team leader too. Won't that be fantastic to finally be thought of as a team leader Andre? This is further proof that the Piston management has lost their marbles. Please fire Stan Van Gundy and bring in Zeke. Andre will not last a week. He will be gone so he can assert himself as a leader on another team and I sure will feel sorry for which ever team gets stuck with him.

Other NBA teams are planning for the day when Labron James loses his mojo. They plan by securing top talent through the draft especially small market teams. Instead of trading Drummond and the other highly paid players now, management will linger and wait and laugh at the Pistons management who think it is only a matter of time until their low basketball IQ players somehow get smart. You are born smart. You are born with a certain type of personality and only the alpha dogs survive to reach the finals. We saw it happen twice but now we will most likely have to wait another 4 years until a new management team comes in and starts at the bottom again. WE ARE AT THE BOTTOM. Every team in the league have a better upside and hope for success in the future than the Detroit Pistons. This season we found out how many bad teams the Eastern conference really has by the way they played in the playoffs. There is one supreme complete team in the Eastern Conference. Can anyone guess who that team might be. And for Piston management to now spin this idea that the Pistons have some good players when those players lost badly to bad teams all season long is actually funny. Then to top it off for Drummond to announce that he is the team leader when he is a fringe player and only plays and gets special treatment because of his big contract, all hope is gone. We are a bottom feeder and there will be more of the same dysfunctional uninspired basketball being played next year. Then next summer the same spin game will be played. The reason why management is trying to sell the idea that Drummond will be great in a few years is the fact that no team wants his contract. He is not worth a first round pick. Can anyone say he is worth a first round pick?

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Stuff

Post  BallinD on Tue May 09, 2017 7:47 pm

DX, I want to believe Dre can pull it together and wanna defend, pass out of the post, use his speed and length to defend the pick and roll.  I don't even care if he can shoot, if he could become Deandre Jordan, I would be satisfied.  His recent comments about working on his post game and free throws does not inspire me.  According to analysis, his postup is a more inefficient shot than his 38% FT shooting.  He also commented that this was his team and he was the team leader.  It takes a lot more than saying that though.


deusXango wrote:Drummond...don't give up at this point folks because of his exasperating past; this man is going to get much better as he matures. Fingers crossed.
Harris...this is our most effective and consistent offensive player...don't follow the shade SVG has subtly thrown on this man and his contract is not outrageous by SVG's standards (it was signed BEFORE the money explosion).  No shade here.  I love Tobias, hopes he focuses almost exclusively this summer on 3pt shooting and defense.  I also think we (SVG) slept by not running more P&R with Tobias (but we know Weggie has no chemistry with him)
Johnson...just give this kid a break; don't be thrown by his size and strength, he still has some maturing to do.  Gotta shoot it better, or be our Tony Allen, I wouldn't mind  that.
Ellenson...the same for this kid; I'm going to make a dogged stand for Henry, simply because he hasn't been given an opportunity, just nitpicked on. I'm looking at rookies of lessor talent contributing in the playoffs. SVG dropped the ball.  He will be a revelation someday, I believe.
Ish and Beno...in my mind and by the numbers, they're better for this team than Reggie, until someone better comes along. True
Bullock..."when you find your hand in the lions mouth, ease it out, because if you snatch it you're subject to loose the whole arm." KCP is one of the pieces that'll give us salary relief with his absence; S & T if he wants a nickel more than $14 million. Resigning Bulloch, who's a better shooter and plays defense just as well, is much cheaper. Actually over the last two years I read that Bullock yielded 42% shooting, while KCP yielded 43% shooting, so there is that.  Plus, he is our best shooter.
Morris...man has grit and determination, also played well with Harris and Drummond when we didn't have a ball hogging PG. A better deal in the NBA can't be had. Love his Swag.  Besides Weggie and KCP (occasionally) he can really go on a streak when he's hot like no other Piston.
Boban...the man is a force that's been hidden from view for too long; split Drummonds time with him.  Agree.  We can actually run offense through him, IMHO, and SVG said the same.

We tried for Horford, but he turned us down; the only other hardnosed paint player out there is Millsap. Any takers? Okay, but don't find an over the hill, declining player as our veteran savior. ZBo anyone??
If Brooklyn really has the hot's for KCP, sign and trade for Lopez, or a couple of their trash contracts and their first round pick this year! Take their pick and ours to rebuild the Pistons backcourt; real defenders with size...a PG that has an I.Q. and plays unselfish and a SG that can see the floor and actually shoot with some athleticism! This is where the league is today.
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Dx & Ballin

Post  Oracle on Tue May 09, 2017 7:08 pm

@Ballin - I have to admit that Phillip was 100% right about Booker, that dude just blew up!!! Man I wish we had drafted him instead of Stanley, so I hope Stanley can blow up this coming season.

@DX - I kind of feel the same way about Drummond. It's dangerous to give up on athletic big men too early, my feeling is that he could really be something in 2 years.

I also hate to part with KCP, but the problem is his asking price and the fact that we really need someone that can shoot playing behind him. You want to start your best defender, but nobody can afford to pay for a good shooter and a defender at one position unless it's one person.

I reluctantly would do the deal with NJ for KCP, but we will need a 3rd team to get the best value. It stinks because you can't teach CLUTCH, and in that department, we only had KCP & Reggie, then crickets!

To be honest, I feel that our biggest issue is at starting PG and that the rest of the problems will take care of themselves. I know a lot of people liked Baynes, but I felt that he held us back more than he helped.

With a better PG, using Boban regularly, getting Ellenson in the rotation and Stanley getting better, we can be a very good team.

I just don't think we were all crazy to believe how good this team could have been, but that doesn't mean we can't improve.
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Core? Core!!

Post  deusXango on Tue May 09, 2017 6:16 pm

Drummond...don't give up at this point folks because of his exasperating past; this man is going to get much better as he matures.
Harris...this is our most effective and consistent offensive player...don't follow the shade SVG has subtly thrown on this man and his contract is not outrageous by SVG's standards (it was signed BEFORE the money explosion).
Johnson...just give this kid a break; don't be thrown by his size and strength, he still has some maturing to do.
Ellenson...the same for this kid; I'm going to make a dogged stand for Henry, simply because he hasn't been given an opportunity, just nitpicked on. I'm looking at rookies of lessor talent contributing in the playoffs.
Ish and Beno...in my mind and by the numbers, they're better for this team than Reggie, until someone better comes along.
Bullock..."when you find your hand in the lions mouth, ease it out, because if you snatch it you're subject to loose the whole arm." KCP is one of the pieces that'll give us salary relief with his absence; S & T if he wants a nickel more than $14 million. Resigning Bulloch, who's a better shooter and plays defense just as well, is much cheaper.
Morris...man has grit and determination, also played well with Harris and Drummond when we didn't have a ball hogging PG. A better deal in the NBA can't be had.
Boban...the man is a force that's been hidden from view for too long; split Drummonds time with him

We tried for Horford, but he turned us down; the only other hardnosed paint player out there is Millsap. Any takers? Okay, but don't find an over the hill, declining player as our veteran savior.
If Brooklyn really has the hot's for KCP, sign and trade for Lopez, or a couple of their trash contracts and their first round pick this year! Take their pick and ours to rebuild the Pistons backcourt; real defenders with size...a PG that has an I.Q. and plays unselfish and a SG that can see the floor and actually shoot with some athleticism! This is where the league is today.
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True Dat

Post  BallinD on Tue May 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Oracle: I totally agree that there are pieces out there for them to get at least one star to work with, but let me play devil's advocate for just a minute.

In my experience, and I'm sure you guys have seen this a million times, if you get the right star, the players you thought were trash, all of a sudden become way better than they were before. As much as LeBron gets on my nerves at times, he makes ordinary dudes look like championship contenders. Kyrie was a talented loser until he showed up, and that cast of cast offs wouldn't even be interesting if it wasn't for LeBron.

So we aren't getting a star of that caliber, but the right one can get this engine started in a positive direction. So with that in mind, the question becomes who do you keep.

Who to keep should be decided on two factors, upside/fit and how much they cost.

It's also dependent on the cost of the star, but in any case, I believe that we need to keep enough of a core to help guide the transition or the season could be a lost one... again.

This isn't easy at all and it's loaded with dangers. I don't envy SVG, this is likely make or break for him!"


Oracle, that is why I'm hopeful we can grab Luke Kennard and/or Zach Collins in the draft, maybe Terrance Ferguson or Frank Niitikina.  Players who make their teamates better know how to pass, can shoot and have a high BBIQ.  IMO, we have Ish, SJ (potentially) Tobias (potentially) Boban, Bullock and Beno who I think meet the criteria. We know we have needed shooting forever but somehow failed to draft Booker and now might pass on Kennard, best shooter in the class, who also has some BBIQ and intangibles, but is not the top athlete by a long shot.  I say, so what! 
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RIP

Post  Oracle on Tue May 09, 2017 4:28 pm

George Irvine!
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Good one Ballin...

Post  Oracle on Tue May 09, 2017 4:27 pm

I totally agree that there are pieces out there for them to get at least one star to work with, but let me play devil's advocate for just a minute.

In my experience, and I'm sure you guys have seen this a million times, if you get the right star, the players you thought were trash, all of a sudden become way better than they were before. As much as LeBron gets on my nerves at times, he makes ordinary dudes look like championship contenders. Kyrie was a talented loser until he showed up, and that cast of cast offs wouldn't even be interesting if it wasn't for LeBron.

So we aren't getting a star of that caliber, but the right one can get this engine started in a positive direction. So with that in mind, the question becomes who do you keep.

Who to keep should be decided on two factors, upside/fit and how much they cost.

It's also dependent on the cost of the star, but in any case, I believe that we need to keep enough of a core to help guide the transition or the season could be a lost one... again.

This isn't easy at all and it's loaded with dangers. I don't envy SVG, this is likely make or break for him!
BallinD wrote:Opportunities abound for VanBower if the talk of liking "The Core" was simply a smokescreen.  It's like a candy shop this summer.  Talk of must sign KCP is nonsense, and if we can open our minds the sky is the limit.  

Shakeups in ATL and Indy and possibly LA Clips n Lakers, Chicago, Toronto, Golden State and other franchises indicate the Pistons could recast themselves this summer if they are willing to shed Drums, RJax, KCP, even Tobias for a star to help lead us out of mediocrity.  If the ceiling for this team is a 4th seed, we have to ask if it's worth it to continue down this road.

IMO, the scheme must be blank slated, and all cards should be on the table.  Because if an athletic big who can't shoot or play defense, an asthmatic high-usage PG with a bum knee, and a SG who can't shoot well or dribble well, but defends ok;if this is our core, there is actually no core! The emperor has no clothes SVG!!

We need an old vet or two, ala Joe Johnson, Zbo, Lee, Redick.  We need a shooter, Redick, CJ Miles.  We need someone else who can put the ball on the floor and make plays, KCP can't and Bullock can't.  SJ can, but he is a turnover machine and very poor shooter.


Old Vets who are playoff tested: ZBo (Memphis), PJ Tucker, Matt Barnes, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Barbosa, Tony Allen, Monta Ellis, Redick, Tolliver (not so much), Sefolosha, Avery Bradley, Wilson Chandler

Stars: Melo, Butler, George, CP3,

Shooters:  Redick, CJ Miles, McDermott, Meeks, Lou Williams, Korver

Promising Role Players: Beasley, CJ Miles, Teague, Livingston, Ibaka, Olynik, Shumpert

Young Up and Coming: Seth Curry, Shabazz Muhammad, Wiggins, Gary Harris, Archie Goodwin, Will Barton,
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Topsy Turvy Offseason

Post  BallinD on Tue May 09, 2017 2:38 pm

Opportunities abound for VanBower if the talk of liking "The Core" was simply a smokescreen.  It's like a candy shop this summer.  Talk of must sign KCP is nonsense, and if we can open our minds the sky is the limit.  

Shakeups in ATL and Indy and possibly LA Clips n Lakers, Chicago, Toronto, Golden State and other franchises indicate the Pistons could recast themselves this summer if they are willing to shed Drums, RJax, KCP, even Tobias for a star to help lead us out of mediocrity.  If the ceiling for this team is a 4th seed, we have to ask if it's worth it to continue down this road.

IMO, the scheme must be blank slated, and all cards should be on the table.  Because if an athletic big who can't shoot or play defense, an asthmatic high-usage PG with a bum knee, and a SG who can't shoot well or dribble well, but defends ok;if this is our core, there is actually no core! The emperor has no clothes SVG!!

We need an old vet or two, ala Joe Johnson, Zbo, Lee, Redick.  We need a shooter, Redick, CJ Miles.  We need someone else who can put the ball on the floor and make plays, KCP can't and Bullock can't.  SJ can, but he is a turnover machine and very poor shooter.


Old Vets who are playoff tested: ZBo (Memphis), PJ Tucker, Matt Barnes, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Barbosa, Tony Allen, Monta Ellis, Redick, Tolliver (not so much), Sefolosha, Avery Bradley, Wilson Chandler

Stars: Melo, Butler, George, CP3,

Shooters:  Redick, CJ Miles, McDermott, Meeks, Lou Williams, Korver

Promising Role Players: Beasley, CJ Miles, Teague, Livingston, Ibaka, Olynik, Shumpert

Young Up and Coming: Seth Curry, Shabazz Muhammad, Wiggins, Gary Harris, Archie Goodwin, Will Barton,
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Trades?

Post  Sparma on Mon May 08, 2017 8:59 pm

Good to hear all of the trade talks. The Pistons threaten to make my pessimism that served well when predicting chronic.

Reasons to think trading will go worse (!) than in the past, even though we badly need it to go well:

1) SVG made several trades with the wind in his back (eg the Morris and Harris) trades. Given the Pistons' financial circumstances he was able to make a number of trades that you could immediately see were uneven talent exchanges. The Harris trade was a puzzler from Orlando's perspective, but I gather that they didn't want to pay quite so much for Harris with a youngster (Gordon) emerging behind him. Now SVG's going to need to win trades straight up (well, sometimes there are mutually beneficial deals to be had).

2) The two main guys I'd want to deal if there's a reasonable return out there, i.e., Drummond and Reggie, have been found out to some extent this season. Last year would have been the time to deal, with AD's promise looking very high to some (in spite of his obvious flaws). Maybe that's unfair to an injured Reggie, but there seems to be a consensus that the return on him would be low now. Selling low's generally not a good idea, unless it's really necessary which it may be, but doesn't seem to be SVG's sense.

3) A disappointing, bad, season tends to suppress the value of players. The vultures gather.

4) We have fewer valuable spare parts to deal, what with Baynes likely leaving and Stanley's stock way down. If only we'd dealt Leuer at the trade deadline, letting Ellenson and co. take their shot. That would have been a bold move! Now the available moves may be only the reckless ones, where you're not getting an even return at all.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon May 08, 2017 8:36 pm

Oracle wrote:Here are a LOT of "if's", but a lot of this is possible, IMO.

1. Stanley Johnson starts showing the reason we drafted him and has a very good season
2. Harris develops a passable 3 point shot
3. KCP improves as usual

These 3 things would make a huge difference because if Stanley gets more minutes it means we have a better defender on the floor. If Harris hits 3's it means that we can spread the floor better.

This article on Stanley starts out with the Josh Smith comparison, but Stanley has a lot better upside offensively and he's already on a good defensive path.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/5/8/15567566/detroit-pistons-stanley-johnson-player-review-2016-17 wrote:Coming into the 2016-17 NBA season, many were hoping that Stanley Johnson, the No. 8 pick in the 2015 NBA Draft, would build on his promising rookie season. Having averaged over 8 points and 4 rebounds as a rookie in the league, expectations were high, and once again, the question was when he would assume starting small forward duties in place of Marcus Morris, not if.

Cue freefall.
If we look at the raw per-game numbers, they don’t tell the whole story. Instead, they are just the prelude into a six-month dramedy of Movie 43 (ed note: If you don’t get this reference, consider yourself lucky) proportions. 4.4 points per game, 2.5 assists, 1.4 rebounds, all in a lackluster 17.8 minutes. Then we get to the special effects. A PER of 7.2, worse than all teammates not named Darrun or Mike, a True Shooting percentage of 43.6, besting only old mate Mike again, and a turnover rate of 15.5 percent, good enough for 13th on the team ... better than only Darrun and #TeamHenny.

Oracle the only good thing that happened to Stanley Johnson was his discipline and determination to get on a health kick and lose body fat and excess weight. He lost a lot of weight in order to become the true professional like the professional tennis players. Losing weight and getting into great physical condition is nothing to take lightly. Many NBA players get on the party circuit and can never get off it. Hopefully all the negative mind games Van Gundy played with Johnson this past season will no affect him next year. This year was a huge set back. Johnson could not concieve of any team he is on missing the NBA playoffs. However, something will have to give with the head coach and his creation of the special click of his designated team leaders, Drummond and Jackson. The players sure didn't pick those to to be the face of their team. If SVG is to stay, he much create a new atmosphere for the players. I think he needs to bring in some new assistant coaches. Take a look at the assistants who have been with Van Gundy for the past three seasons. Are they part of the problem. Do they help create this negative outlook? Do the players other than Jackson and Drummond trust the assistant coaches? Which assistant coach has been able to help any one player show improvement? When Johnson played at Arizona he made a huge improvement from the Red-Blue inter squad scrimmage before the home fans to the start of the regular season. Johnson was the typical freshman 5 star young kid who wanted to show off his one on one moves. That ended really quick which is unusual and Stanley became a unselfish defensive minded guy who let the game come to him on the offensive end. I expected a big jump this past year in his impact on the team. He worked extremely hard over the past summer to get ready while working on the bogus shooting technique that didn't feature good ball control on his release. Johnson used to release the ball at the last moment with one hand. He had good control and although the shot was somewhat flat, it landed softly on the rim.

However, the article you mentioned was spot on regarding Johnson's tendency to get in bad situations because of ball handling problems. KCP has the same issue but does have some designated plays. Johnson has none. The other problem is SVG's lame offense. Johnson is old school and gets his touches off pick and roll plays and action off his valuable skills relating to screening in the paint. He is a guy that Van Gundy ignores and fails to use his skill set properly. Detroit needs some sort of mid range game. Johnson is good at moving without the basketball and setting screens and getting the ball back in a half court set. He would for sure look a lot better on a more experienced team with players who move the basketball rather than dribble around and have the entire focus of the offense centered on one on one play. The two Piston teams that won championships with entirely different players placed their success on ball movement, screening, and hard core defense. Tom Gores hired the wrong man to run the Detroit Pistons. He places no importance on the those traits that brought Detroit previous success. Remember how badly Detroit beat up his teams in the playoffs? SVG didn't learn a thing and here he is with the blessing of Tom Gores featuring a big flawed and lazy center and a selfish shoot first ball dominate point guard. Both players Stan features have one thing in common. They are the weakest defenders at their individual position in the entire NBA. They would struggle playing defense in the D-League. If Something doesn't change next season, Tom Gores will have the same problem he had this past season. Nobody wants to watch his team so they won't be purchasing many tickets. The kids in Detroit should make out great because the free tickets will be available for every game.

My hope is that Stan Van Gundy wants to stick around a little bit longer in basketball. He doesn't want to go out into retirement this way. He is a failure now and he must know it. So I hope Stan brings in more capable assistant coaches especially the coach responsible for the guards. The Piston guards have been horrible in my opinion on both defense and offense. Who is the guy most responsible? Why is he still working for the Pistons? After a little house cleaning I would also hope that Stan sees the light and would not want to coach Andre Drummond for another season. Who would want that if they had had that experience? Get him out and move the team in the right direction. Maybe Reggie Jackson would play better if he has a different type of assistant coach working with him. Stan Van Gundy has been an assistant coach before so he knows he cannot repeat what has happened before. Three seasons should be enough time for any assistant coach to show a trend in the right direction for the players they coach. I would also suggest that Tom Gores hire an outside basketball person to take a look at the entire coaching operation and offer suggestions for improvement.

Does Stan Van Gundy want to create a team that if extremely lucky could end up in 3rd place in the Eastern conference some day? Or does he want to build a champion? If so then it won't come through free agency or the players currently on his roster. He will need to build a team from the draft. If there is any demand for the services of Andre Drummond and Detroit can get any first round pick, it is a no brainer. As much as I want to believe that Boston might bite on giving their first round pick for Drummond, I believe no GM would rate Andre high enough for even a top 5 pick. If any offer up to the 15th pick would be thrown in, SVG should grab it. We lose his salary. That is a big deal. And he doesn't play for Detroit anymore and that is an even bigger deal for all Detroit fans.

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Stanley showed flashes of Josh Smith mixed with touches of Josh Smith... Ouch!!!

Post  Oracle on Mon May 08, 2017 6:37 pm

Here are a LOT of "if's", but a lot of this is possible, IMO.

1. Stanley Johnson starts showing the reason we drafted him and has a very good season
2. Harris develops a passable 3 point shot
3. KCP improves as usual

These 3 things would make a huge difference because if Stanley gets more minutes it means we have a better defender on the floor. If Harris hits 3's it means that we can spread the floor better.

This article on Stanley starts out with the Josh Smith comparison, but Stanley has a lot better upside offensively and he's already on a good defensive path.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/5/8/15567566/detroit-pistons-stanley-johnson-player-review-2016-17 wrote:Coming into the 2016-17 NBA season, many were hoping that Stanley Johnson, the No. 8 pick in the 2015 NBA Draft, would build on his promising rookie season. Having averaged over 8 points and 4 rebounds as a rookie in the league, expectations were high, and once again, the question was when he would assume starting small forward duties in place of Marcus Morris, not if.

Cue freefall.
If we look at the raw per-game numbers, they don’t tell the whole story. Instead, they are just the prelude into a six-month dramedy of Movie 43 (ed note: If you don’t get this reference, consider yourself lucky) proportions. 4.4 points per game, 2.5 assists, 1.4 rebounds, all in a lackluster 17.8 minutes. Then we get to the special effects. A PER of 7.2, worse than all teammates not named Darrun or Mike, a True Shooting percentage of 43.6, besting only old mate Mike again, and a turnover rate of 15.5 percent, good enough for 13th on the team ... better than only Darrun and #TeamHenny.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon May 08, 2017 4:30 pm

Oracle wrote:
merc wrote:
Sparma wrote:Braden Shackelford writes: "I’m good losing either player for the right price. I think Jackson has to net shooting help or a first round pick. The same with Drummond, though the first rounder needs to be a top-five pick or future pick that should land in that area."

Sure, but would anyone pay that "right price"?  I'm afraid that rest of league would see those returns as really inflated prices.  If another team sees that as the "right price," go for it.
Good points Sparma.... I could see the Lakers showing interest in Dre (especially after he dominated them)... possibly swapping picks and they throw in mid level type player (Mozgov?).
It appears that if SVG is serious about moving pieces to get a star, the flood gates are, as they say, wide open!

Three of the five teams mentioned in this article look like teams we would have a chance to deal with, either directly or getting a 3rd team involved.
http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/zero-sum-game-pistons-make-18-playoffs-someone-must-be-dislodged wrote:Indiana – If there’s a star more likely to be traded this summer than Butler, it’s got to be Paul George. He’ll be a free agent after next season, assuming he opts out, and he’s been fairly transparent about his desire to join the Lakers. Jeff Teague will be a free agent this summer and that could go either way. Larry Bird just walked away as head of the front office, so the ball is now in the court of his former first lieutenant and successor, Kevin Pritchard, who generally drew high marks for his run in Portland. Wouldn’t be surprising to see a revamping with young big man Myles Turner as the centerpiece.

Atlanta – Another team starting over in organizational structure with Mike Budenholzer relinquishing his role as leader of the front office but staying on as coach and general manager Wes Wilcox reassigned. Paul Millsap is widely expected to opt out. Before the shakeup, it was more likely than not that he’d remain with the Hawks. Now? Who knows? We don’t even know yet who’ll make the decision on management’s end. Dwight Howard, Kent Bazemore and Dennis Schroder all signed long-term deals last summer, so there’s your core – unless the new management team decides it isn’t. Tim Hardaway Jr.’s strong second half probably makes him as important as anyone this side of Millsap in their immediate future.

Toronto – Surprised to see the Raptors on this list? They’re the long shots to fall out of the playoffs, but Kyle Lowy is all but certain to opt out and we’ll see where that leads. With Serge Ibaka also headed for free agency – just a few months after the Raptors shed elite sniper Terrence Ross to get him – it wouldn’t shock to see a team with legitimate cap concerns decide to let Lowry go, elevate Cory Joseph to starter and roll with some combination of incumbents Delon Wright, Fred Van Vleet and a cheaper free-agent option to compete for backup minutes. Lowry’s 31 – a dangerous age to invest long term in a point guard, from management’s perspective – but he’s been integral to Toronto’s recent run. It’s hard not to see a downturn if he walks.

BTW, I do agree with Don that it's stupid to say KCP is a done deal, we need to be sure of what the market is and sign him after that. I don't see any problem with signing him to market value, but no more because we can always move him if things don't work out, but the main issue is getting rid of the guys(Drummond & Reggie) that cause the others to look bad. Once they're gone, a much better evaluation can be made, and in the process of moving them, there will be fresh competition for current positions.

If neither can be moved, we're still not dead in the water, but we'll have to hope on both of them turning things around. If you look at the numbers, our problem is NOT offense, it's defense. If we defended even slightly better, we're in the playoffs near 6th seed.

Good thoughts Oracle. Anyone I have talked with who decides to torture themselves watching the Pistons talk about how horrible Detroit's defense was and yet when Stan Van Gundy was asked about the biggest problem he stated that Detroit's defense actually improved. Stan then went on to reveal the team's biggest weakness - failure to make 3 point shots. So when the Heat's center Whiteside got that tip in over Andre Drummond to take Detroit out of the playoff picture, That one play didn't stay in Stan's brain long. was he watching the game? Sometimes I wonder. I can't think of any coach who wouldn't lose sleep if their team lost because of simple lack of effort and execution of the basic fundamentals you learn as a 10 year old in high school, college or the NBA. The focus is on 3 point shooting. It seems that Stan didn't know that all the great 3 point shooters are on Cleveland's team. Maybe Van Gundy fully expected to be fired after the season and was just making fun of the question.

It was difficult to watch the Toronto-Cleveland game yesterday. All Eastern conference teams should raise the white flag and just designate Cleveland as the conference representative for the finals. Although the game was better than I expected until the 4th quarter, everyone knew what was coming and it did. Labron was outstanding. Irving was outstanding. Frye was outstanding. On and on it goes. Cleveland has all the right players who all play the right way. The best memory I have of this game was the breakdown Hubie Brown made with both teams. He is one of a kind. If only Stan Van Gundy would hire him to watch game film of the current Piston team so Hubie can tell Stan what he doesn't want to know. While Hubie Brown can breakdown game situations and the proper way to handle those situations in a split second. Meanwhile Stan Van Gundy throws tantrums on the sidelines and turns his back to the action thus missing a lot. If you are Hubie Brown you remain calm and concentrate on the game or you are of no help to your team in the role of coaching. A fan can do what Stan does but not a professional coach. Sometimes I wonder if he knows how Drummond screws up pick and roll plays or when a weak side play on offense is about to happen and Andre isn't aware and goes to the weak side taking his defender with him. Hubie would be all over that mistake. As a coach, it would be real funny to get his response if Andre Drummond complained to him that he doesn't want to work with the designated shooting coach. Of course Andre Drummond wouldn't see the floor either until he showed some interest in playing defense, boxing out and using proper positioning and anticipation on the defensive boards. Meanwhile Stan says Andre you do whatever makes you happy. Please Stan retire from coaching before next fall. Please just hang out in the front office. Hubie Brown always hired fantastic assistant coaches who all had the gift of making players better because they could teach the fundamentals and had a way of making practice tough but fun. It was always a mental game as well as a physical thing for the players. Brown was a great coach regardless if it was high school, college or the NBA. Now I rank him up at the top of all announcers along with Steve Kerr who also can articulate game action with profound insight.

Maybe Van Gundy can multi task and can rant and carry on while still knowing what is going on within the game. Who Knows but when I listen to Jeff Van Gundy announce a NBA game it is clear that he doesn't pay much attention either and has little insight to provide fans. You are better off turning the sound off. He is annoying more than anything else. All Jeff does is react like a typical fan after a ref blows the whistle. Then he starts a big debate while the game is being played. " No that was not a foul". "Yes i agree that was a foul? Jeff must know important people in high places. Hubie Brown should a a finals announcer not Jeff Van Gundy. If teenagers are watching when Hubie Brown is announcing they can learn a lot about what is going on within the game and what to watch for and how to implement Hubie's information for their own improvement. Hubie has helped hundreds of young men become outstanding basketball players.

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Merc/Sparma

Post  Oracle on Mon May 08, 2017 2:57 pm

merc wrote:
Sparma wrote:Braden Shackelford writes: "I’m good losing either player for the right price. I think Jackson has to net shooting help or a first round pick. The same with Drummond, though the first rounder needs to be a top-five pick or future pick that should land in that area."

Sure, but would anyone pay that "right price"?  I'm afraid that rest of league would see those returns as really inflated prices.  If another team sees that as the "right price," go for it.
Good points Sparma.... I could see the Lakers showing interest in Dre (especially after he dominated them)... possibly swapping picks and they throw in mid level type player (Mozgov?).
It appears that if SVG is serious about moving pieces to get a star, the flood gates are, as they say, wide open!

Three of the five teams mentioned in this article look like teams we would have a chance to deal with, either directly or getting a 3rd team involved.
http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/zero-sum-game-pistons-make-18-playoffs-someone-must-be-dislodged wrote:Indiana – If there’s a star more likely to be traded this summer than Butler, it’s got to be Paul George. He’ll be a free agent after next season, assuming he opts out, and he’s been fairly transparent about his desire to join the Lakers. Jeff Teague will be a free agent this summer and that could go either way. Larry Bird just walked away as head of the front office, so the ball is now in the court of his former first lieutenant and successor, Kevin Pritchard, who generally drew high marks for his run in Portland. Wouldn’t be surprising to see a revamping with young big man Myles Turner as the centerpiece.

Atlanta – Another team starting over in organizational structure with Mike Budenholzer relinquishing his role as leader of the front office but staying on as coach and general manager Wes Wilcox reassigned. Paul Millsap is widely expected to opt out. Before the shakeup, it was more likely than not that he’d remain with the Hawks. Now? Who knows? We don’t even know yet who’ll make the decision on management’s end. Dwight Howard, Kent Bazemore and Dennis Schroder all signed long-term deals last summer, so there’s your core – unless the new management team decides it isn’t. Tim Hardaway Jr.’s strong second half probably makes him as important as anyone this side of Millsap in their immediate future.

Toronto – Surprised to see the Raptors on this list? They’re the long shots to fall out of the playoffs, but Kyle Lowy is all but certain to opt out and we’ll see where that leads. With Serge Ibaka also headed for free agency – just a few months after the Raptors shed elite sniper Terrence Ross to get him – it wouldn’t shock to see a team with legitimate cap concerns decide to let Lowry go, elevate Cory Joseph to starter and roll with some combination of incumbents Delon Wright, Fred Van Vleet and a cheaper free-agent option to compete for backup minutes. Lowry’s 31 – a dangerous age to invest long term in a point guard, from management’s perspective – but he’s been integral to Toronto’s recent run. It’s hard not to see a downturn if he walks.

BTW, I do agree with Don that it's stupid to say KCP is a done deal, we need to be sure of what the market is and sign him after that. I don't see any problem with signing him to market value, but no more because we can always move him if things don't work out, but the main issue is getting rid of the guys(Drummond & Reggie) that cause the others to look bad. Once they're gone, a much better evaluation can be made, and in the process of moving them, there will be fresh competition for current positions.

If neither can be moved, we're still not dead in the water, but we'll have to hope on both of them turning things around. If you look at the numbers, our problem is NOT offense, it's defense. If we defended even slightly better, we're in the playoffs near 6th seed.
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I don't see many NBA teams using the strategy Piston management uses relating to their players coming up for new contracts

Post  cool breeze on Sun May 07, 2017 9:06 pm

As far back as the times of Rodney Stuckey contract negotiations nothing seems to have changed. We were supposed to be acquiring a really smart basketball person in Stan Van Gundy and his team. How does that team differ from Joe Dumars other than Joe seems to be a lot smarter in that he didn't spend as much money to keep 2nd tier type players. Once management had Piston fans sold on the idea that Stuckey was going to develop into a star player. It was just around the corner after the next contract was signed, Stuckey would explode and suddenly transform himself into an All Star. So near the end of the season during that time period Piston management would start releasing press announcements that other teams better forget Stuckey because the Pistons would match any offer. After the big contract (small in today's crazy era) was signed management would pat themselves on the back and say job well done. The only problem was that no other team was really interested in Stuckey especially for the amount of money Detroit had offered. Was Joe Dumars set up by Stuckey's agent maybe indicating that several teams wanted him? Who knows but this same stupid game plan has been used by Stan Van Gundy and company but this time around the Pistons really got burned. All teams knew in advance of Drummond's rookie contract expiring that Drummond was off limits. He was their franchise player and nobody was going to out bid Stan Van Gundy. Meanwhile every NBA team that needed a starting caliber center evaluated the strengths and weaknesses of Andre Drummond and how he would fit in with their teams. How many teams does anyone think would have evaluated Andre Drummond high enough to warrant the huge contract the Pistons offered. It was a done deal far in advance. The owner even stepped in and said that he was OK with offering Drummond the max contract. I can see doing that type of thing if you really know that you have a superstar player like our hero Isiah Thomas. It appeared the Piston management was scared as hell that Andre might bolt. So they bid against themselves once again but this time it killed the Pistons financially for many years to come. Stan Van Gundy better bank on the new nose job Drummond just had to justify his high price tag. Maybe the reason why Andre couldn't get his arms above his waist on defense was that he wasn't able to get enough oxygen. It couldn't have been because he was out of shape and over weight. Of course not because every team in the league wanted Andre Drummond real bad but did not make any attempt to sign him because our brave management team stepped in and shut that down. Andre is off limits. now KCP is off limits. KCP is so valuable what will we do if he decides to pull up stakes and take another offer. Yet after last season I was not sold on the idea of offering Drummond a max contract. He was a liability on defense at that time. He couldn't play in crunch time a year ago because he couldn't figure how to rotate quickly enough on defense and of course he NEVER BOXED OUT HIS MAN ON DEFENSE AND ALLOWED OPPONENTS TO SECURE 2ND CHANCE OPPORTUNITIES. Fast forward as the Pistons were fighting for that last playoff spot, who screwed up at the end of the game and allowed Whiteside to tip in the winning shot directly over Andre Drummond who failed to box out and stood flat footed too far under the basket? Who was that man Mr. Gores and Mr. Van Gundy? Yes he was the guy you had to protect at all cost because every other team in the league wanted your guy. Over inflating the value of players that coach Van Gundy watched in practice and in games is inexcusable. He had to see how inept this player was before he signed the contract.

Now we see the same approach take place with KCP. "HE IS OFF LIMITS". DETROIT WILL MATCH ANY OFFER. Well why not let other teams make an offer before you put your foot in your mouth idiots? Agents must get a good laugh when thinking about how the Pistons negotiate. What do you want Mr. Agent? Well I am getting a lot of calls on KCP and they are extremely interested so you better offer a max contract now because he really doesn't want to play with Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson anymore. Now he will want to play for Detroit for the right price though. So show me the money. Stan says it is a done deal. Don't get any offer sheets on KCP tell him we will give him whatever he wants. We can't imagine losing him. Instead of saying the the agent that KCP has a few flaws that we worry about based on his history of playing the most minutes of any other players now for 3 seasons, why don't you see what the market is for KCP and get back to me? KCP is not up to speed with his ball handling skills and he has no change of pace with his dribble either so it is difficult for him to control himself or the ball when he attempts to penetrate. He doesn't have a mid range game either and we don't see him coming off picks clean enough to get his shot off but then we don't encourage players to set picks on this team so that is an unknown for us relating to KCP's potential to create a good mid range jump shot like other 2 guards have already developed. And we have had trouble getting KCP to prevent dribble penetration and play smarter in pick and roll plays on defense. He gambles a lot. And KCP is not known as a guy who sees the floor well and passes the basketball accurately. Finally, KCP doesn't recognize situations and take advantage of those situations that he should exploit like a lot of other highly skilled 2 guards. No there will be no discussion at all relating to the value of KCP. It is in stone that KCP will remain on the Piston team for years to come we know his potential and can't live without it. Can you imagine anyone who owns a small business operating and surviving if you negotiate like the Piston brain trust? Please Mr. Gores sell the team to someone who cares.

If Stan Van Gundy does not know the reason why his team keeps on losing could it be that he has no idea as to how to evaluate the players he coaches? Stan didn't seem to get it that his offensive style of play did not fit the players he selected. It is as if this last embarrassing season never happened where no player improved under Stan's coaching crew. Everyone got worse even KCP especially relating to KCP's defense. I take no stock in shooting percentages. When the team needed a spark KCP gave it a few times but he never showed anyone that he stood out as a future star player. Paul George is a star player. He should get a max contract. But maybe Stan was sleeping and had a dream that KCP was an All Star. Maybe he had this same dream last summer about Andre Drummond. Maybe he is using astrology cards to make decisions. There are too many maybes to trust Piston management. KCP is not a max type of player. Don't be so stupid please. If the Pistons can move Andre Drummond then I am OK with negotiating with KCP's agent for a modest raise but nothing near the max. Otherwise, the team will just be repeating the same mistakes and getting themselves into an even worse position after the team gets their butts kicked even worse next season. It is crazy to even talk about signing KCP until they at least move The Franchise player AD. In trade talks use the idea that Andre will be much better next season now that he can breath perfectly after the nose surgery. Could it be that is what Piston management is trying to sell Piston fans on so they can take the summer off without even trying to trade the world's worst free throw shooter?

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