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Oracle

Post  deusXango on Sun May 14, 2017 2:13 am

Oracle wrote:@Don - Please read before you get out too far ahead of your headlights...

Oracle wrote:I don't think you all are haters, but it's hard to figure where a lot of this is coming from in the face of clear logic and facts.
Obviously you don't belong to that camp. I'm not out to punish, just to point out what you don't want to say. BTW, the draft is a total crap shoot as you should know, since damn near everything you said about Stanley Johnson turned out to be totally false. Hopefully he recovers from the false praise you and others heaped on his rookie shoulders.

On another note... you tell weird stories just like Lee356/357.

@DX - I can't figure out where you're coming from.

DX wrote:I'm hating because I don't want to experience another year of watching asshole ball.

So, just who is responsible for that and then who are you hating on?
I'm not hating on any player, even though the ones SVG chose to unadvisedly play ahead of players that were more fit should've manned up and taken the "high road"; when you don't, that's not competiveness, it's selfishness! SVG put this team together and is responsible for game planning, player development, and coaching, which IMO he failed on all counts; so my hating is not player directed, but SVG directed. I apologize for not being clear.
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PISTON MANAGEMENT THOUGHT THEY HAD SUCH A GREAT TEAM THAT THIS DRAFT WOULD'T BE A BIG THING

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 13, 2017 8:33 pm

Total mis calculation with planning and talent selection makes this draft vey important. Yet we have no 2nd round pick which is deadly this season because of the talent available in the 2nd round. There are three players who played for Oregon last season who I like. Brooks is a guy that the experts have little respect for yet he is a killer player who every college coach in the PAC 12 feared most of all. But another player on his team is listed in the 2nd round as well and I can't believe it. Tyler Dorsey is a first round pick any day of the week. I am not sure he has signed with an agent and if not he should pull out of the draft and show he game at Oregon again. I think that the experts who rate players seldom watch teams like Oregon. Those teams need to make the NCAA finals to get any press. Dorsey is a clutch shooter, driver, passer and defender. He is tough as hell and is a hard worker always improving. If he stays in the draft, some team is going to have a rotation player next year and most likely a team like the Spurs will pick him up for next to nothing. Dorsey would beat KCP out of his job real quick. Piston fans would have died and gone to heaven. He would fit SVG's game well because he is a dead eye outside shooter with defensive players hanging all over him. If Oregon hasn't lost their best defender and shot blocker in the PAC12 tournament due to injury, Oregon would have dominated the NCAA tournament. Looking at some of the other players listed in the 2nd round makes me ill thinking that we will not one of those guys.

It appears that Detroit will not draft a point guard and I am surprised that Ferguson did not get an interview with Detroit. Will the Pistons try to sign one or more players at the combine who stay in the draft but are not picked? That is something the Spurs would do but not Piston management. Our team is set. Last season was a fluke. We will win the championship next year. Everything is great and there is nothing to worry about. Detroit has the best coaches in the entire league. They will figure it out.

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Van Gundy should consider checking into the Betty Ford clinic to control his eating disorder

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 13, 2017 7:56 pm

Wow I just saw Stan Van Gundy and his buddy who acts as the GM walking around at the Chicago Combine and it wasn't pretty. How in hell are they able to function well while carrying that much weight? I have nothing against Stan Van Gundy and thought things would really improve in Piston land when he was hired. This past season made be sour on him and I have to admit that at times I have been cruel in my assessment of how he runs things and who he puts in charge. Now I am worried about him more than anything else. He does not look well. Stan doesn't take care of himself. He should take some time off and get his weight under control before training camp. I'm serious both Stan and Jeff look like they are about to have massive heart attacks. Stan looks like a bowling ball and he shakes a lot.

You can't make sound decisions when you feel like crap. I can't see how Stan can feel good. The best thing SVG can do for himself is to concentrate on losing at least 60 pounds before September and then another 30 pounds during the season. He and Andre should work together to find a new diet. For Stan it might save him his life.

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Which way to go...

Post  Oracle on Sat May 13, 2017 7:01 pm

Here is my thought, and I do like what Lemonpen had to say,
Lemonpen wrote: In my mind we cannot go into next season with 3 huge contracts none of which is for an established All Star. Its tough to plan on some unnamed FA, draft pick or trade prospect.
On May 22nd my preference is to pay KCP and say bye-bye to RJax.

First, I agree that 3 large contracts without one star among them is not sustainable, and I like your solution with some additional information.

Drummond: Yeah he looks like trash, but it's way too early to give up on him, but if we were to do that, we blew it big time when we passed on Cousins. He would have been a centerpiece to actually build around and it's hard for me to see how we wouldn't be in the playoffs regularly. Deals like that just don't happen too often, so Drummond is worth keeping because what he does, he does very well, unfortunately what he doesn't do well he totally sucks at, but that can change.

Reggie: His health issues can be managed by playing him fewer minutes and saving him for end of game situations, but that's not the biggest issue with him. Reggie's problems are legion,
1. He's past 25 and the type of issues he has never get better, just worse.
2. His style of play is an issue, but just like his health, it also can be managed
3. The biggest issue is that he's holding back the progress of Harris & KCP, both of whom need the ball to move to stay in the flow. KCP and Stanley suffer the most as they can go many possessions with quality touches.

Considering all of this, we should look to move Reggie, but it may not be workable before the season starts, it may not happen until the Feb. Deadline.

KCP: The only smart thing to do is to sign him, there isn't any other choice. I prefer to keep KCP, but if there is a S&T that makes a lot of sense then we would be fools not to entertain it. But a move just to make one makes no sense, and we need to wait to see how things play out.

Nothing is valuable unless you value it. Only Drummond isn't playing up to his contract, Reggie played his heart out last season after he got paid, I expect KCP to do the same and improve as well.

That's the big 3. After that, we have to wonder how long we want to keep Leuer, and that likely will depend on how fast Ellenson can develop.

However, we better pray that Baynes get a higher offer, because he could come back and we have to pay him.

So no, this isn't a blow it up plan in the short term, but keeping our options open to make smart moves as they present themselves. If we get into a situation where we have low paid guys, waiting around for their potential to show, we won't have tradable assets and because we can't attract the big FA's, we would be in a really bad place.
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No Don, we're living in the can't read to save your life times & stuff

Post  Oracle on Sat May 13, 2017 6:36 pm

@Don - Please read before you get out too far ahead of your headlights...

Oracle wrote:I don't think you all are haters, but it's hard to figure where a lot of this is coming from in the face of clear logic and facts.
Obviously you don't belong to that camp. I'm not out to punish, just to point out what you don't want to say. BTW, the draft is a total crap shoot as you should know, since damn near everything you said about Stanley Johnson turned out to be totally false. Hopefully he recovers from the false praise you and others heaped on his rookie shoulders.

On another note... you tell weird stories just like Lee356/357.

@DX - I can't figure out where you're coming from.

DX wrote:I'm hating because I don't want to experience another year of watching asshole ball.

So, just who is responsible for that and then who are you hating on?

Anybody ever heard of "Backup Quarterback Syndrome"?

If it was just one guy, maybe it's understandable, but the consensus around here is that damn near every backup is better than the starter, and that's a new one on me.

@Ballin - I hear you on the Singler issue, but we were so bad back then it wasn't about talent, but about at a minimum playing the right way. Bad analogy, but I did get your drift.

General Question: So the plan as I hear it is to draft, then dump as many of Reggie, Drummond & KCP as possible, count 3, pray, then bend over and kiss our collective asses goodbye? lol lol lol

Seriously, I'll say what I think in the next post.
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Are we living in a George Orwell novel? Oracle has declared that everyone who doesn't want to watch KCP are HATERS

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 13, 2017 3:59 pm

This is the old argument of intimidation that the philosophy of Objectivism warns all objective people to beware of. When you lear of read something that you don't like then just point a finger and call out the offender as a HATER. By evoking the HATE word the proper response is supposed to be shock and then a quick apology. The judge has decided an offense has been committed so what will be the punishment? Only in a totalitarian society do any of us have to fear retribution. This is "Newspeak" which is becoming more and more popular with the young people who have been led around like puppets by college professors. Just label someone with some word that has an emotional connection in popular Newspeak and condemn that person based on your gut feeling and give the offender a ticket to Siberia for a 10 year sentence. I am guilty Oracle. Are you in charge of the punishment?

It sure can get pretty silly when emotions are triggered while discussing basketball. The great thing is that we all care about the Pistons and do hate it when we are forced to watch dull basketball all season long.
Nobody wants to go through another season like the last one. To avoid that from happening, I would be happy to see Pope go out and get his big money from another team so the Pistons won't be handcuffed financially any more than they already are now. Also, isn't is smart to make changes when after several years there there has been no clear improvement in KCP's game? He is not an alpha dog. His standing as a starting 2 guard is way down the list of other starting 2 guards in the NBA. I liked what one of the announcers in last night's game said about John Wall and what Wall said helped him improve so much as a player over the past two years. A former pro suggested that Wall develop a change of pace in his offensive game. Wall is extremely fast and adding that ingredient has made him one of the top players in the game. He hit the winning shot after making a sensational drive to the rim with a 360 move for a layup around Boston's big interior defender. KCP has no change of pace as I have stated several times in the past. In addition, Pope has real problems with ball handling and dribbling. He takes big steps instead of little quick steps and cannot get himself under control on his drive attempts in the half court offense. There are many college players who play point guard and 2 guard who have outstanding dribbling or ball handling skills and some have developed a change of pace as well. And I agree with dX and Ballin who say Bullock is a better overall defender and if he can stay healthy is a better choice than KCP if you have to make that decision. Management would be foolish to offer KCP much money. If not Bullock then try out several other young guys until one sticks as a keeper.

I believe that Kobe Simmons has better potential to become a NBA star than Pope. He is listed in the 2nd round. Simmons played off the ball at Arizona as a freshman but he should have been the starting point guard. Talk about a great shooting stroke and ball handling skills. This guy has the change of pace, great ball handling, court vision, defensive ability and a high basketball IQ. He is skinny now but comparing Simmons to KCP relating to pure potential Simmons wins in every important area. And I only bring up Simmons for the same reason I mentioned Bullock. There are other players out there that can fill the need and have a higher upside than KCP. Kyle Anderson, Simmons and Murray are better players than Pope. Like other so called Haters have said, Pope got extreme minutes that he didn't earn. It was another decision by a flawed coach who is not objective minded. Detroit needs to suffer through another season and that should be it for Stan Van Gundy's nonsense. However, he might further damage the Pistons by signing Pope like he signed Drummond.

I base my judgment regarding Piston players on what I saw during Piston games. I think that Drummond is a nightmare type of player that we are stuck with unless a Josh Smith type of decision is made by the next coach. I would be so happy if SVG would or could trade him for nothing if necessary just to lose the contract. Dido Reggie Jackson. However, Oracle I pull for those players to do well once a game is in progress and hope that they give a better effort and are smarter than they show me. I never hate any player. This is only a game. The players are people and I don't hate anyone.

What I don't like is when it is necessary to set the record straight with finger pointers. One of my only fist fights as an adult came in a pick up basketball game two days after I had completed a marathon. You stay pretty emotional for several days after an event like that and I was just shooting free throws minding my own business when a nice kid begged me to play with their team because they only had 4 players. All went well and we won the first game. Winners take on the next team and the next team wore uniforms and were medical doctors who came on the court pushing and shoving and acting way to serious maybe because they had never been good enough to play organized basketball as kids. Sure enough one short dude stopped play and bitched out one of the teenaged guys I was playing with and called a moving screen like the kid had committed murder. The kid had set the screen for me and I passed the ball back to him and he made a short jump shot. I thought the kid was well positioned. But the doctor kept getting closer and closer to the kid and put a finger on the kid's chest kept poking him. I stepped in and told the punk doctor know it all that he needed to calm down and to not touch the kid along with offering more talk intended to calm the waters. It didn't work and the guy then got in my face or about 2 inches from it and then made the mistake of jabbing me with his damn finger. That was it, I grabbed the finger and bent it backwards and then he tried to slug me. I won't go any further but I doubt he will ever do that same thing again unless it is with a defenseless woman. That emotional bully doctor used another form of the argument of intimidation on the kid without words being the weapon. He used the finger to physically push another person to intimidate just as you used the word HATER to try to win something perhaps an argument. But just to set the record straight, I do not think any fan who writes on this forum hates any Piston player in any way. We might not like having certain types of players on the Piston team because of the way they play or the amount of money they want, but please stop this nonsense. I might sound cruel when I try to breakdown say Drummond's approach to playing basketball. This kind of thing needs to be said by his coaches so he might attempt to change how he plays. Coaches have jerked me around and said some real nasty things to me in the past. But I always sucked it up and got mad at first but as my Dad used to say, listen to the coach if he gets on you because he cares about helping you to improve or he wouldn't say anything. Perhaps Andre Drummond never had a Dad to set him straight. We are sometimes our own worst enemy. My wife corrects me and sets me straight now in my adult life. Is there a coach out there who can set Andre straight and help him get on a path to success? Should somebody send him some old Ben Wallace game tapes? Would he watch them? Andre Drummond, not KCP is the key to success for the Pistons. If he can be traded - GREAT because the team can add new players until we get a good center. If Andre could somehow change and transform into a defensive star by dominating the defensive boards, making it impossible for opposing players to get shots off in the paint, play his man tightly, dominate on the pick and roll plays on defense, and become the best shot blocker in the NBA, our Pistons could climb out of the toilet and make it to the finals. Instead of smiling and dancing in the pre game celebration, Andre would have a cold stare because he had mentally prepared himself to kick ass and take names once the tip off takes place. There would be no resting. It would be all hard work and deep concentration. The fans would chant Andre Andre. He would be a hero instead of being known as the underachiever guy who is over weight. I hoped I would see Andre transform before my eyes every time I started watching a game. It never happened so the first option is the soundest option. TRADE HIM IF POSSIBLE. Please don't take that as a hateful wish Oracle.

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I Remember Kyle Singler

Post  deusXango on Sat May 13, 2017 3:37 pm

BallinD wrote:Singler got all the minutes, got a few buckets here and there, there were moments but...he wasn't all that!  
Dude got all the playing time he could handle for us; was middling on a poor team, but for some reason our coaches and many misguided fans thought he was must-have, essential, had all these intangibles, had to start every game.  Well as soon as he went to OKC, he was exposed and never again saw the light of day.  Michael Curry anyone???

Not saying KCP is Kyle Singler, but similarly he is overvalued because our coach (Stupid Van Gundy) plays him when he's off target, doing his disappearing act, or is coming back from injury, out of rhythm, out of sorts, all day long, all season long and the numbers nor the eye test justifies it.  Middleton languished on the bench, didn't get much PT and look what he turned out to be.  

There are parallels here.  It wouldn't be the first time grizzled old coach overlooked diamond in the rough rather playing a safe middling choice.  We all have seen how SVG plays favorites, even to the detriment of the team!?!?!?

SVG played Leuer all those minutes, does that make him a good player.  What about Baynes over Boban. Your argument is because Bullock hasn't really got a shot at PT that he doesn't deserve a shot at PT?!?! Because the Basketball Savant SVG says so?!?!  Kuester  Get rid of our best shooter (Bullock) and our best shotmaker (Tobias) cause we certainly don't need none of that, right?!?!
Call me a hater because I'd love to see the Pistons play to the standards of Pistons champions, instead of dumb ass coaches favorites. Kyle Singler set the stage (in great part because he was the most recent mystery favorite) for my "hatred" because he came on the tail end of players like Jason Maxiell, Rodney Stuckey, and Lindsey Hunter, to name a few, who started and ate up PT all while better players languished on the bench. I remember 0 points, 0 rebounds, o assists, and 5 fouls in 20 minutes Michael Curry, who played in front of Tayshawn Prince. Was there a better player than Maxiell? Hell yes and if there wasn't, why not? Was there a better player than Stuckey? Several! What about Lindsey? Come on lol . These players only started for Detroit, in Detroit, because once they left....BENCH!

KCP has eaten up so much PT that it's been hard for the casual fan (I include myself in that number because I'm not privy to the practices, to see for myself, to determine the true value of bench players or players being hidden in the D-league) to really know who's the best fitting player and most productive at SG...this has not been addressed in 3 years and it should've been because of the inconsistency of KCP. The length of time he's spent on the court his numbers should be staggering, but they're mediocre for a none playoff team member and now fans want to justify giving him what he wants for mediocre play...I find that twisted in the strange world I live in. Damn the market, we should pay him what he's worth, but if someone wants to pay him an outrageous amount, so be it...be prepared to compensate us to the level of which YOU value him through S & T.

The fact is, I don't hate KCP and I do value what he brings to the table, but I don't favor paying another bench player star wages...our team is made up with bench players from Drummond to Smith; there are no stars, just some good players, and not too many of them. It's taken a jackass to push our payroll through the roof just to make it into the late lottery. I've already stated SVG can't coach winning basketball in todays game, now I'm getting a running start to blister his abilities as president (depending on how this years draft, FA signings, and trades go). I'm hating because I don't want to experience another year of watching asshole ball.

Why do the Pistons keep playing in that weak Orlando Pro Summer League? Why not go out west and try the Las Vegas Summer League?
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Reggie Bullock

Post  lemonpen on Sat May 13, 2017 2:20 pm

Oracle wrote:To a man the response has been more than strange, but has exposed the true facts.

Bullock is worst than a scrub, because at least a scrub shows up to play.

But that isn't what exposed you guys... nobody ever mentioned this being a choice between Bullock & KCP!

The ONLY one that should have thought that would have been me because you all assume/want KCP to be traded.

This should have been Bullock vs anybody else you could hope to get, but the hate was so strong, you picked your whipping boy... Yikes!

You guys are impervious to FACTS, but here are a few more.

Once you guys trade Reggie & KCP, please inform us who will we turn to when we need someone to put the team on his back and bring in the win? They're the ONLY two players we have that have and have proven to have that ability regularly. Nobody on this team does it better than these two.

I'll take damn near anybody rather than take Bullock, a guy that's NEVER taken over a game, who's highest scoring game likely was never 20 points and who probably never won a game by himself... seriously, how low can your standards be???

But obviously we're not talking facts or logic here, hate grinds those into the dust. For whatever reason, some of you simply can't stand to see KCP get paid what he can get in a free market... capitalism at work.

I don't think you all are haters, but it's hard to figure where a lot of this is coming from in the face of clear logic and facts.
Your concerns are certainly valid. There is a BIG difference between 15mpg and starters PT. More-so for a guy with a persistent injury history.
BUT, at this point Bullock is the only visible alternative. Silent G probably won't (shouldn't) make the cut and Hillard seems to be slated as a b/u or 3rd PG. In my mind we cannot go into next season with 3 huge contracts none of which is for an established All Star. Its tough to plan on some unnamed FA, draft pick or trade prospect.
On May 22nd my preference is to pay KCP and say bye-bye to RJax.
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Does Anyone Remember Kyle Singler

Post  BallinD on Sat May 13, 2017 9:00 am

Singler got all the minutes, got a few buckets here and there, there were moments but...he wasn't all that!
Dude got all the playing time he could handle for us; was middling on a poor team, but for some reason our coaches and many misguided fans thought he was must-have, essential, had all these intangibles, had to start every game.  Well as soon as he went to OKC, he was exposed and never again saw the light of day.  Michael Curry anyone???

Not saying KCP is Kyle Singler, but similarly he is overvalued because our coach (Stupid Van Gundy) plays him when he's off target, doing his disappearing act, or is coming back from injury, out of rhythm, out of sorts, all day long, all season long and the numbers nor the eye test justifies it.  Middleton languished on the bench, didn't get much PT and look what he turned out to be.  

There are parallels here.  It wouldn't be the first time grizzled old coach overlooked diamond in the rough rather playing a safe middling choice.  We all have seen how SVG plays favorites, even to the detriment of the team!?!?!?

SVG played Leuer all those minutes, does that make him a good player.  What about Baynes over Boban. Your argument is because Bullock hasn't really got a shot at PT that he doesn't deserve a shot at PT?!?! Because the Basketball Savant SVG says so?!?!  Kuester  Get rid of our best shooter (Bullock) and our best shotmaker (Tobias) cause we certainly don't need none of that, right?!?!


Last edited by BallinD on Sat May 13, 2017 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Oops)
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The fresh smell of hate in the morning, LOL!

Post  Oracle on Sat May 13, 2017 8:19 am

To a man the response has been more than strange, but has exposed the true facts.

Bullock is worst than a scrub, because at least a scrub shows up to play.

But that isn't what exposed you guys... nobody ever mentioned this being a choice between Bullock & KCP!

The ONLY one that should have thought that would have been me because you all assume/want KCP to be traded.

This should have been Bullock vs anybody else you could hope to get, but the hate was so strong, you picked your whipping boy... Yikes!

You guys are impervious to FACTS, but here are a few more.

Once you guys trade Reggie & KCP, please inform us who will we turn to when we need someone to put the team on his back and bring in the win? They're the ONLY two players we have that have and have proven to have that ability regularly. Nobody on this team does it better than these two.

I'll take damn near anybody rather than take Bullock, a guy that's NEVER taken over a game, who's highest scoring game likely was never 20 points and who probably never won a game by himself... seriously, how low can your standards be???

But obviously we're not talking facts or logic here, hate grinds those into the dust. For whatever reason, some of you simply can't stand to see KCP get paid what he can get in a free market... capitalism at work.

I don't think you all are haters, but it's hard to figure where a lot of this is coming from in the face of clear logic and facts.
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KCP vs. Bullock...I'll take the bargain!

Post  deusXango on Sat May 13, 2017 1:27 am

Oracle, Oracle, my brother Oracle, have you taken a real look at the game/seasonal stats you provided us with? Regardless of how many games Bullock missed, he's a far better gamble, to excel, than KCP. A lot of those games Bullock missed, as a Piston, were DNPCD misses, that's why the sample size is so small, but numbers don't lie and the eye test should tell you the difference between Bullock and KCP. Bullock has played his best basketball for the Pistons and if given the chance, those numbers should go up; he's coming into the peak of his powers years.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 12, 2017 11:50 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:Ballin what I can't figure out is why management even ponders this situation relating to KCP and his quest for a huge contract. I totally agree with you on your analysis of the two players and believe Bullock for sure is a better defender, passer, ball handler and sees the floor better not counting his great shooting stroke. The argument some are making is the unknown relating to how KCP would fit in a system other than SVG's system. I still think KCP has some big flaws in this game with lack of ability to see the floor well and lack of a change of pace and ball control when he attempts to drive into the paint. This team will not be going anywhere upward for several years until Jackson and Drummond are gone anyway so signing Pope prevents the next coach after SVG from stealing players who are un drafted or playing in the D-League.
Ballin wrote:
I'm still firmly in the camp of let KCP go via S&T if possible and resign Bullock who defends better than KCP gives up 42% shooting vs 43% for KCP is our best shooter and has consistently been that best shooter over the past couple of seasons, though SVG gives all available minutes to KCP even when he is off and confessed he doesn't care how much or what quality of shots he puts up. But then he admits we are the worst shooting team in the NBA and admits he never designed plays for Boban (and certainly not for Bullock) SMH.

All of that based on this??? He played 43 games in his rookie season and never hit that mark again... yup, screams starting material!


No Oracle some of us free thinkers believe that scraping the idea of signing KCP is a good thing. I can only speak for myself but I do see more potential in Bullock than I see in KCP. Granted Bullock has been hit with some injuries but I like his defense better than Pope and he has better ball handling skills than Pope too. KCP has had a free pass like Drummond and Jackson. He never has had to worry about being out of favor of the coach like other players. He can go on horrible shooting nights and go home and sleep well. I wonder what some of the other players could do if they could get out of the dog house more. But the biggest reason is money. KCP is a huge gamble much like Drummond. Take another look at the salary payout on the Spurs. Then if you watched last night's game you would know that KCP has never played as well as the young bench players did in a big game that decided the series. Since when has Pope ever been a big time player? Yet he expects to be paid as much as Leonard. It would be a gamble for Detroit to pay Pope anything over $8 million a year tops. I would still worry about giving him that much money based on his play so far. But of course that doesn't worry Stan Van Gundy at all. I would sign Bullock for a modest sum and then do what the Spurs do. Stan needs to secure more draft picks this summer. There are some good players in the 2nd round. He must make an all out effort to beat the weeds down and find some potential stars in the D-League or in Europe. We don't have the players that can win in the NBA. Of course we don't have the coaching that can get us there either. And Stan's hand picked staff of assistant coaches have not shown that they are capable of making young players better.

Not signing KCP will offer the next coach more options. I expect Stan Van Gundy to be fired at the latest before next June. We cannot expect anything good to happen until he is gone. Then I want Zeke to be offered the same deal as SVG and I am sure the first thing he will do is move Drummond and Jackson. Then we will be in business and have hope for the future.

Maybe the only fun I will have next season is watching Ellenson if he gets to play. I have my doubts that will happen. SVG has a lot invested on Leuer and won't give up easily. Drummond and Jackson will be the team captains again and will be unsupervised by the coaching staff. Whatever they want to do, they will do. What does a small kid do when he ditches his Mother in a candy store? That is the way it works under SVG and his coaching staff. Drummond will be expecting a lot of touches on offense next year. We all know that he gets what he wants and if he doesn't he calls Tom Gores. Poor Stan might be looking forward to being fired. Andre will be working hard on his hook shot again. Don't mention defense to Andre. Don't mention shot blocking or boxing out. Don't mention losing weight and getting on a better diet. And no players only team meeting will be allowed by the two captains and their Mother, Stan Van Gundy. But all is not lost because at seasons end, we will be saying so long and good luck to Mother. And hopefully the two kids will be adopted by another team.

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Kennard, Ferguson...what about a 3 headed monster?!

Post  deusXango on Fri May 12, 2017 9:53 pm

BallinD, that was an awesome post and I agree with your assessment of Kennard totally...it's his lack of size, speed, and  athleticism, that I favor Ferguson over him, plus Kennard has the PG skills and capability to score 16 points off the bench easily. The perfect 6th man! I mentioned in an earlier post that Ntilikina, Ferguson, and Kennard are the players I want NOW to begin building around. If we had a forward thinking, innovative, president that could gather those players together, we'd see a team much better than the Jackson/Smith led team we seem destined to go downtown with. Why are we content with thinking drafting #12 only and have so much trade bait sitting around, anxious to be traded? Other than Drummond, Boban, Harris, Morris, Ellenson, and resigning Bullock, does anyone actually believe we can't get another lottery pick and mid first rounder with the remainder of our roster?

Damn, we need a coach in the worst way and for those that can't/won't see it now, wait until the All-Star break next year. If the team that SVG assembles is playing .500 basketball then, I'll eat crow; I expect to be feasting on King Crab legs however.
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You can't make this stuff up...

Post  Oracle on Fri May 12, 2017 9:19 pm

Don wrote:Ballin what I can't figure out is why management even ponders this situation relating to KCP and his quest for a huge contract. I totally agree with you on your analysis of the two players and believe Bullock for sure is a better defender, passer, ball handler and sees the floor better not counting his great shooting stroke. The argument some are making is the unknown relating to how KCP would fit in a system other than SVG's system. I still think KCP has some big flaws in this game with lack of ability to see the floor well and lack of a change of pace and ball control when he attempts to drive into the paint. This team will not be going anywhere upward for several years until Jackson and Drummond are gone anyway so signing Pope prevents the next coach after SVG from stealing players who are un drafted or playing in the D-League.
Ballin wrote:
I'm still firmly in the camp of let KCP go via S&T if possible and resign Bullock who defends better than KCP gives up 42% shooting vs 43% for KCP is our best shooter and has consistently been that best shooter over the past couple of seasons, though SVG gives all available minutes to KCP even when he is off and confessed he doesn't care how much or what quality of shots he puts up. But then he admits we are the worst shooting team in the NBA and admits he never designed plays for Boban (and certainly not for Bullock) SMH.

All of that based on this??? He played 43 games in his rookie season and never hit that mark again... yup, screams starting material!

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Lemon, I really like this post because...

Post  Oracle on Fri May 12, 2017 8:29 pm

It's very balanced and reasoned. We get a lot of emotional posts and there's nothing wrong with that, loving your team tends to bring out that emotion, but I just thought this post was exceptional. Now about that loan I need...  lol
lemonpen wrote:Message to SVG & Co.
Anything less than being the best road dog (5th seed) in next years playoff will mean CURTAINS FOR U.  This year’s outcome doesn’t completely reset the clock.
Be very very careful how you play this Jackson – Drummond decision.  Who you hitch your wagon to will likely determine your future.
Is Andre repairable.  Can you guys not only re-establish his ascending trend but also raise his ceiling.
Is the question with RJax reeeally about health, or do you in your heart of hearts secretly question FIT.  In a head to head comparison there is NO 2 or 3 man combination with Ish that doesn’t outperform the same with Reggie.  Both offensively and defensively.  I repeat “NO” combinations.  

Stan claims to be willing to match any offer for KCP.  Given Pope’s continued yoy growth I won’t knock the decision.  What I will question is the sanity of such a plan if Reggie remains the starting PG.  Why retard the production of your newly minted high earner.   Van Gundy can,  (1) lose RJax for whatever can be gotten in return, then allow Ish to unleash Pope (and others);  Or (2), seek a S&T for KCP (again getting whatever we can in return), then retain Bullock as the SG along side RJAX.  It all depends on their plan for RJ.

Power Forward
Let the competition begin.  Or not, and just roll with Henry in the starting unit while pretending there was ever a competition (my choice).  In his short end of year debut Ellenson demonstrated too many tantalizing positives to believe he would not surpass Leuer inside of a season.

After watching Simmons vs the Rockets I’m left asking how the Freak did the Spurs grow that from an undrafted guy while we get Johnson on the other (spelled expensive) end of the draft spectrum.  Doesn't that strongly suggests that if coaching ain’t everything it's damn close.

I believe the Spurs just confirmed that a game predicated on abundant 3 point shooting is highly over-rated.  They clubbed the Rockets to death 2 points at a time.  

Does Lowery entering the free agent market make KCP just a little less expensive.

Think twice about wooing Teague.  He is a pretend All Star.  His reluctance to step up along with George is mostly what doomed the Pacers.  Sits in the background too much for his talent level.  Atlanta felt the same pinch.
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Bullock & KCP

Post  Oracle on Fri May 12, 2017 8:26 pm

Amazing you guys keep bringing this guy up who can't stay on the floor to save his life... what a joke! He's always hurt and no GM or coach would trust their future on a guy that plays at most a quarter of a season per year.

@Ballin - It's well established that numbers in a short stint generally go down, that's why most basketball minds recognize that the projections to minutes varies wildly.

Sadly, you prove my point when you simply can't find his numbers for anything resembling a full season... tell me again why you're so high on this walking MASH Unit  lol

I think we can go one of 3 ways with KCP, 

1. S&T
2. Sign Him and keep him
3. Sign him and make a later move

Interesting that it's "Fans" that want to move him the most. Not saying that Fans can't be right, but it's just an observation.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 12, 2017 7:53 pm

BallinD wrote:Guys, I'm liking Kennard (handles + Shot + BBIQ) over Ferguson, but I'm not mad at Ferguson, I just think he's more a scorer than a shooter and we need a shooter, we already have a scorer (KCP) and that's not the answer for this team. Plus because Kennard has handles and "feel for the game," he would be a complement to Weggie who wants to pound the air out of the ball and pass to himself. We need another secondary ballhandler (KCP ain't that) for our predictable, pedestrian offense.

I'm still firmly in the camp of let KCP go via S&T if possible and resign Bullock who defends better than KCP gives up 42% shooting vs 43% for KCP is our best shooter and has consistently been that best shooter over the past couple of seasons, though SVG gives all available minutes to KCP even when he is off and confessed he doesn't care how much or what quality of shots he puts up. But then he admits we are the worst shooting team in the NBA and admits he never designed plays for Boban (and certainly not for Bullock) SMH.

Oracle, you said if he shot more, he would inevitably shoot it worse, don't know why you are offering an opinion as a fact, but it fits with the conventional wisdom that says KCP is a can't miss part of our core, yet he shot worse from the floor than Ish last year 39% vs 42%. Bullock shot 38.5% from 3 in 25 games with LAClippers in 2014-15, 41.5% from 3 for us 2015-16 in 37 games and 38.4% last year in 31 games, including 5-6 in our last game. It's not a fluke and from the eye test he is a wash with KCP, moves better without the ball (cuts and screens) and would be helluva cheaper. 6'7" vs 6'5", what's not to like. I like the way the team plays when he is given quality minutes.

Ballin what I can't figure out is why management even ponders this situation relating to KCP and his quest for a huge contract. I totally agree with you on your analysis of the two players and believe Bullock for sure is a better defender, passer, ball handler and sees the floor better not counting his great shooting stroke. The argument some are making is the unknown relating to how KCP would fit in a system other than SVG's system. I still think KCP has some big flaws in this game with lack of ability to see the floor well and lack of a change of pace and ball control when he attempts to drive into the paint. This team will not be going anywhere upward for several years until Jackson and Drummond are gone anyway so signing Pope prevents the next coach after SVG from stealing players who are un drafted or playing in the D-League.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 12, 2017 7:31 pm

Oracle wrote:You're missing the point!

They aren't great players by any standard, hell, some of them aren't that good, and if we got them they'd be 10 times worse.

You fail to see what's right in front of you.

High IQ is either something the player already has(not likely), or almost always, it's been drilled into them by the coach and enforced by the system.

It's ALL coaching, the invisible hand that guides teams and fools the casual fans into believing it's all the players.

If we had the same players playing this 4 out 1 in, camp out at the 3 point line, they might win a few more games, but likely would get worse over the course of the season.

You guys would think KCP was one of the best 2 guards in the league is SVG's system didn't have him jacking up 3's even when he's off all while he discourages KCP from taking better shots. KCP's 3 point average would be closer to 40%, but they love to toss it to him when other stuff isn't working, and yet he still shot 35%... amazing! BTW, all of his averages would be stellar if SVG sat his ass when he's off, or just moved the ball better so his assists could go up.

There's just way too much standing around in SVG's offense, but he blames it on the players... go figure.

But the bottom line is that while Reggie & Drummond are issues, I see coaching as the biggest issue, I just hope SVG sees it sooner rather than later.

Oracle have you ever played on an organized team or coached? By saying that the coach is more important than anything makes me think you have never been involved personally. The right combination is having players to play with that have a high aptitude and desire to succeed along with a really smart and dedicated coach or better yet a group of coaches who are all on the same page. I learned as a young kid playing my first season on the varsity in high school how important it was to play with players who know what they are doing. I sure didn't know it all but I had some older guys who were smart as hell and quick to make great decisions on the floor. Basketball is a game where you have to have the ability to react quickly to situations on both offense and defense. You can't get help from the coach once the game begins. You depend on your teammates on both offense and defense. There has to be some form of comfort and confidence that makes the game really enjoyable to have success. To play with players you highly respect because of the way they play makes you feel twice as strong and smart because the game is so damn fun it is crazy. The coaches get you going in the right direction and set the tone for what they feel might be the best way to play relating to the type of offense and defense that fit the specific players the best. You trust the coaches to make the right decisions in that regard. But if you play with players who are dumb as hell relating to having a basketball IQ, it is pure hell to be out there playing with them. It is up to the coach to remove the bad players to avoid a total disaster. There are some players you just cannot make better. They are too far gone or never learned how to play the right way in Jr High. It is too bad but that is life. The rest of the team should not have to suffer so the coach absolutely has to do the right thing. But the NBA is a different animal. So many owners, GMs, and head coaches play politics as dX has outlined many times in the past.

I have never played for or coached with bad coaches. But for some reason I get this sense that somehow the Piston assistant coaches are a real problem. Are they giving out mixed messages to the players? Do the coaches treat certain players differently than others? Are they true coaches or are they trying to become close friends with the players? Is the head coach directly involved in the practice situations and does he supervise his assistant coaches when the team breaks into smaller groups depending on positions?

Something is wrong in Piston land. How in hell can the defense still look the same as it did 3 years ago? I see no improvement. No player on the team has stood out as a shot blocker. WHY? If the starting highly paid center has not been coached well enough to show some skill at blocking shots, who is responsible? It appears that SVG thinks it is not Andre Drummond's fault because he selected Andre as the team leader along with Reggie Jackson. Why is Reggie such a horrible defender after all this time in the league? Who is responsible for that?

The owner should be asking the above mentioned questions so where in hell is he? It starts with the head coach who did not recognize the strengths and weaknesses of his players and then FAILED to create a system that would work the best for his specific players not use the system the coach dreams about at night. The Spurs won by 39 points not playing your insane 3 point game Stan. The Pistons all play like individuals not teammates. I think that the lack of player movement is due to the way both point guards play on offense and this can be traced directly back to Tim Hardaway and SVG. They have a faulty system. Both Jackson and Smith try to create something either for themselves or their teammates. You have to let the game come to you even if you are playing point guard and react according to how the opposing team is defending you on any specific night. You must be able to adjus. Notice last night several players played the point guard role in the sense that they brought the ball up the court. I especially like it when Ginobili starts the half court offense. His court vision is outstanding and has already figured out how his team should attack the defense. The Pistons have the one man show bringing the ball up the court and then dribbling around until he makes something happen. This is first level play basketball and the result is that the Pistons are easy to guard and very predictable. The opposing team might have a player on the floor with a broken leg and the Piston offense will still function the same way. No adjustment would be made to exploit the other team's weakness. We have a dumb looking team and a dumb acting head coach who continues on with his game plan regardless of what is happening.

The biggest problem of all is that Stan Van Gundy has zero control of his team for obvious reasons. He knows this season the team had the worst team chemistry in the entire league. They were known as the under achievers. Instead of looking inward Stan thinks this was a fluke and will never happen again. But I see why the team chemistry is bad. The team has a team leader that other players do not respect as a player. They like him as a man and friend but not as their team leader. That guy is Andre Drummond. DIDO for the other proclaimed leader by SVG, Reggie Jackson. This is a real mess and will not get better without a real change. Detroit needs a established highly talented franchise type player that opposing teams fear playing against. Then everything falls in line. That is what is missing. We got such a player in Zeke through the draft who became a team leader as a rookie. It can change that quick. We got Mr. BigShot and Ben Wallace the enforcer shot blocker through free agency and trades. Once you get one or two studs and then add the great coaching, a team can blossom into something special. I see no player on this Piston team that has the right stuff that any other team really fears playing against. And I suspect that all opposing teams have little respect for Stan Van Gundy's ability to select the right combinations or select the correct style that will bring out some fear in the hearts of players who face the Pistons.

I guess it is time to let this all go. There is nothing we fans can do to change anything. It is laughable that this owner has any trust in Stan Van Gundy after what happened this past season and thinking about how he has handcuffed the Pistons because of the way he has spent the owners money. This management team should have predicted the outcome of this horrible season much earlier than the last week of the season. SVG even screwed Detroit's chances of getting a better draft pick although the starters did get blown out a lot in the first quarter of most games in the last month of the season. Maybe I am wrong about that statement.

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Draft and Stuff

Post  BallinD on Fri May 12, 2017 7:12 pm

Guys, I'm liking Kennard (handles + Shot + BBIQ) over Ferguson, but I'm not mad at Ferguson, I just think he's more a scorer than a shooter and we need a shooter, we already have a scorer (KCP) and that's not the answer for this team. Plus because Kennard has handles and "feel for the game," he would be a complement to Weggie who wants to pound the air out of the ball and pass to himself. We need another secondary ballhandler (KCP ain't that) for our predictable, pedestrian offense.

I'm still firmly in the camp of let KCP go via S&T if possible and resign Bullock who defends better than KCP gives up 42% shooting vs 43% for KCP is our best shooter and has consistently been that best shooter over the past couple of seasons, though SVG gives all available minutes to KCP even when he is off and confessed he doesn't care how much or what quality of shots he puts up. But then he admits we are the worst shooting team in the NBA and admits he never designed plays for Boban (and certainly not for Bullock) SMH.

Oracle, you said if he shot more, he would inevitably shoot it worse, don't know why you are offering an opinion as a fact, but it fits with the conventional wisdom that says KCP is a can't miss part of our core, yet he shot worse from the floor than Ish last year 39% vs 42%. Bullock shot 38.5% from 3 in 25 games with LAClippers in 2014-15, 41.5% from 3 for us 2015-16 in 37 games and 38.4% last year in 31 games, including 5-6 in our last game. It's not a fluke and from the eye test he is a wash with KCP, moves better without the ball (cuts and screens) and would be helluva cheaper. 6'7" vs 6'5", what's not to like. I like the way the team plays when he is given quality minutes.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 12, 2017 6:20 pm

deusXango wrote:Don, this is a debatable statement, but in my heart of hearts, I believe to be true; if SVG was in his 3rd year of coaching the Spurs current roster, Anderson, Murray, and Simmons wouldn't be seeing the floor and they wouldn't be playing as accomplished basketball as they are...they aren't designed to play 1 in and 4 out basketball while featuring the P & R. This is the only way SVG knows how to coach. "Pop" has a respect of his players and genius knowledge of the game that SVG lacks...the team would've tuned SVG out by the 3rd season with his unlimited, political bullsh!t.

I was high on Kyle "Slow Mo" Anderson coming out of U.C.L.A., but his lack of speed would've been the imaginary flaw Detroit fans would've seized on to discredit his game and justify SVG not playing him. Remember how we treated the idea of pursuing James Harden when he could've been had for a song and dance leaving OKC? It was all about him not being anything without Durant and Westbrook to his "grill." WTF did his teeth have to do with his game? He stunk up game 6 in the playoffs this year, but he won't come in any lower than #2 in this years MVP race. My point is, we've got Stanley Johnson, Henry Ellenson, and Darrun Hilliard that no San Antonio type development has gone into. A *mongrel dog has gotten more positive press because of his association with SVG, and he will probably be kicked and ignored like Johnson, Ellenson, and Hilliard.

*Don't send the animal lovers after me because of this statement...I'm just not politically correct like some.

If we can't get another lottery pick this year without parting with Drummond, Harris, Johnson, or Ellenson, we may as well blow this team up...we're already f@cked! Making a 3-4 team trade where we give up Jackson and Leuer wouldn't get us a lottery pick is ridiculous! With two lottery picks this year, SVG could rebuild by getting his defenders, shooters, and backcourt of the immediate future, plus resign KCP! The 2nd and 3rd highest paid players on the Pistons payroll are either health or head cases, but we focus on Drummond's contract and flaws more than what he can do. Ntilikina and Ferguson are my picks! We still may be able to get a shot at that kid from Ohio, by way of Duke...Luke Kennard! If SVG can't coach, at least wheel and deal like a top president in the NBA. Ntilikina, Ferguson and Kennard would truly be the three guard rotation of the future and they would be Pistons.

"UNLIMITED POLITICAL BULLSHIT" is so on point dX. You are coming up with some great stuff lately. I really enjoyed your post on the private players only team meeting which I had forgotten but then became obsessed with and still am. That entire episode reveals total dysfunction within the team and the relationship between the coaches and the players. You are so right that none of the bench players who beat the hell out of Houston last night would ever see the floor much under the rule of Stan Van Gundy. I read the article opposite about Stanley Johnson's year end grades and agree that he should get a D minus but I don't know how any young kid could be successful the way SVG coached him. That article brought back several situations where Van Gundy pulled Johnson for making one mistake on defense. I remember the time when Johnson had finally had enough after SVG got in his space as the team came back to the bench for a timeout. When the coach ignores 25 errors on defense by his point guards and starting center and then bitches out a guy who never touches the basketball on offense, it kills your HEART. The heart is the most important ingredient for success as a basketball player. Some players on the Pistons can get a huge contract while playing with no heart and then others who are selected for the dog house get their heart torn out of their body by the coach who's system does not work for the specific players he has to work with. One announcer mentioned Pop's greatest attribute which he showed off this season after suffering many injuries to his key players. Pop has the ability to adjust his offense and defense to fit the players he coaches. He is like the old style great high school coaches who year after year win conference championships. Van Gundy has a one track mind and it shows big time in his post season interview. He still hasn't processed his failure as a coach this past season. While Pop reaches out into the D-League and into the world of un drafted players and makes them into a functional unit or team that is very difficult to play against, Van Gundy continues to play Pope for 30 plus minutes a game and allows his center to do as he wishes on both ends of the floor. Stanley Johnson would excel under the direction of Pop. I think that Johnson no longer has any respect for this Piston coaching staff. I'll bet that he has asked to be traded. Who in hell wants to play in this current system other than JJ Redick if SVG will only give him a fantastic contract. Then we will watch the 3 point shots flying by Leuer, Redick, Jackson, KCP, Harris, Morris and Smith. They will continue to play Stan's offensive game designed for idiots.

Meanwhile, the Spurs were playing hard nosed defense with players who have been coached well. Those players are smart guys who were coachable to start with and able to listen carefully to the coaching staff that designed a defense to stop the high flying scorers on Houston's team. They were players who were capable of making specific adjustments and could concentrate though out the game well to execute the game plan. Those players beat Houston by 39 points. We have players who cannot execute a simple game plan in regular season games. The players this coaching staff has coached HAVE NOT IMPROVED ONE BIT UNDER THEIR LEADERSHIP. The coaches never were able to recognize that the players they were coaching are not a good fit for the coaches system. The coaches as you said are not capable of creating a new system to fit the players and bring out the best in them.

With the above said, the owner is going to keep this coaching staff for at least one more season. Will Tom Gores take a look at the Spurs payroll I presented in a previous post? By allowing SVG to spend more money on average to below average players will kill the Pistons chances to build a good team after SVG is fired. Please step in and take SVG out of all front office decisions. He has gone crazy in his quest to find prolific 3 point shooters with no regard to team chemistry or defense. He has the worst group of defenders in the league playing on one team. There is no shot blocker. No player who can secure big defensive rebounds. And the most important of all is the fact that the Pistons have some of the lowest basketball IQ players in the league. The Spurs are the direct opposite. Everyone has a high basketball IQ and motivation to keep get better.

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There's a difference between the Spurs and the Pistons that's not discussed in earnest

Post  deusXango on Fri May 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Don, this is a debatable statement, but in my heart of hearts, I believe to be true; if SVG was in his 3rd year of coaching the Spurs current roster, Anderson, Murray, and Simmons wouldn't be seeing the floor and they wouldn't be playing as accomplished basketball as they are...they aren't designed to play 1 in and 4 out basketball while featuring the P & R. This is the only way SVG knows how to coach. "Pop" has a respect of his players and genius knowledge of the game that SVG lacks...the team would've tuned SVG out by the 3rd season with his unlimited, political bullsh!t.

I was high on Kyle "Slow Mo" Anderson coming out of U.C.L.A., but his lack of speed would've been the imaginary flaw Detroit fans would've seized on to discredit his game and justify SVG not playing him. Remember how we treated the idea of pursuing James Harden when he could've been had for a song and dance leaving OKC? It was all about him not being anything without Durant and Westbrook to his "grill." WTF did his teeth have to do with his game? He stunk up game 6 in the playoffs this year, but he won't come in any lower than #2 in this years MVP race. My point is, we've got Stanley Johnson, Henry Ellenson, and Darrun Hilliard that no San Antonio type development has gone into. A *mongrel dog has gotten more positive press because of his association with SVG, and he will probably be kicked and ignored like Johnson, Ellenson, and Hilliard.

*Don't send the animal lovers after me because of this statement...I'm just not politically correct like some.

If we can't get another lottery pick this year without parting with Drummond, Harris, Johnson, or Ellenson, we may as well blow this team up...we're already f@cked! Making a 3-4 team trade where we give up Jackson and Leuer wouldn't get us a lottery pick is ridiculous! With two lottery picks this year, SVG could rebuild by getting his defenders, shooters, and backcourt of the immediate future, plus resign KCP! The 2nd and 3rd highest paid players on the Pistons payroll are either health or head cases, but we focus on Drummond's contract and flaws more than what he can do. Ntilikina and Ferguson are my picks! We still may be able to get a shot at that kid from Ohio, by way of Duke...Luke Kennard! If SVG can't coach, at least wheel and deal like a top president in the NBA. Ntilikina, Ferguson and Kennard would truly be the three guard rotation of the future and they would be Pistons.
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A Few Thoughts

Post  lemonpen on Fri May 12, 2017 5:14 pm

Message to SVG & Co.
Anything less than being the best road dog (5th seed) in next years playoff will mean CURTAINS FOR U. This year’s outcome doesn’t completely reset the clock.
Be very very careful how you play this Jackson – Drummond decision. Who you hitch your wagon to will likely determine your future.
Is Andre repairable. Can you guys not only re-establish his ascending trend but also raise his ceiling.
Is the question with RJax reeeally about health, or do you in your heart of hearts secretly question FIT. In a head to head comparison there is NO 2 or 3 man combination with Ish that doesn’t outperform the same with Reggie. Both offensively and defensively. I repeat “NO” combinations.

Stan claims to be willing to match any offer for KCP. Given Pope’s continued yoy growth I won’t knock the decision. What I will question is the sanity of such a plan if Reggie remains the starting PG. Why retard the production of your newly minted high earner. Van Gundy can, (1) lose RJax for whatever can be gotten in return, then allow Ish to unleash Pope (and others); Or (2), seek a S&T for KCP (again getting whatever we can in return), then retain Bullock as the SG along side RJAX. It all depends on their plan for RJ.

Power Forward
Let the competition begin. Or not, and just roll with Henry in the starting unit while pretending there was ever a competition (my choice). In his short end of year debut Ellenson demonstrated too many tantalizing positives to believe he would not surpass Leuer inside of a season.

After watching Simmons vs the Rockets I’m left asking how the Freak did the Spurs grow that from an undrafted guy while we get Johnson on the other (spelled expensive) end of the draft spectrum. Doesn't that strongly suggests that if coaching ain’t everything it's damn close.

I believe the Spurs just confirmed that a game predicated on abundant 3 point shooting is highly over-rated. They clubbed the Rockets to death 2 points at a time.

Does Lowery entering the free agent market make KCP just a little less expensive.

Think twice about wooing Teague. He is a pretend All Star. His reluctance to step up along with George is mostly what doomed the Pacers. Sits in the background too much for his talent level. Atlanta felt the same pinch.
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Don, it's NOT how much they pay in SA...

Post  Oracle on Fri May 12, 2017 4:40 pm

You're missing the point!

They aren't great players by any standard, hell, some of them aren't that good, and if we got them they'd be 10 times worse.

You fail to see what's right in front of you.

High IQ is either something the player already has(not likely), or almost always, it's been drilled into them by the coach and enforced by the system.

It's ALL coaching, the invisible hand that guides teams and fools the casual fans into believing it's all the players.

If we had the same players playing this 4 out 1 in, camp out at the 3 point line, they might win a few more games, but likely would get worse over the course of the season.

You guys would think KCP was one of the best 2 guards in the league is SVG's system didn't have him jacking up 3's even when he's off all while he discourages KCP from taking better shots. KCP's 3 point average would be closer to 40%, but they love to toss it to him when other stuff isn't working, and yet he still shot 35%... amazing! BTW, all of his averages would be stellar if SVG sat his ass when he's off, or just moved the ball better so his assists could go up.

There's just way too much standing around in SVG's offense, but he blames it on the players... go figure.

But the bottom line is that while Reggie & Drummond are issues, I see coaching as the biggest issue, I just hope SVG sees it sooner rather than later.
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Wake Up call Mr. Gores - Please look at how management hands out money on the San Antonio Spurs - You have an idiot running your team

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 12, 2017 2:12 pm

I get so tired of all the propaganda relating to how fans better adjust to the fact that Stan Van Gundy is about to sign KCP to a max contract or anything more than a max. of $10 million a year after 3 more seasons. The Pistons can't afford to do anything until they rid the team of Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson's insane contracts. We all know that Andre Drummond will be making $24 million next year and because he makes that amount of money Stan Van Gundy has appointed him team captain. Stan likes a snitch so he can have max. control of his dysfunctional players.

If you watched the Spurs play last night without K. Leonard and how those players shared the basketball showing off incredible team chemistry though out the contest get ready for a reality check that will tell you there is no hope in Piston land due to incompetent leadership from the standpoint of signing players that don't fit in well with dysfunctional team leaders as well as playing far in excess of their individual value on the open market. How can anyone keep their job in any other business than government and professional sports teams? Did you see Johnathon Simmons, Dejounte Murray, and my favorite Kyle Anderson last night playing with Aldredge, Ginobili, Green and Patty Mills? I would bet the farm that Anderson, Murray, Mills and Simmons would transform this lame Piston team into a team that would be fun to watch and win a lot of games in the weak Eastern conference. How do the Spurs acquire the type of players they target and then make incredibly better once they arrive in the Spurs organization? There is no rebuild necessary with the Spurs. That management team is not trying to fool their fans by building a team that can only compete for the 8th playoff spot in the weakest conference. Unless the fans demand more, we will continue to get more smoke and mirrors and then fall asleep in the first quarter of most Piston games.

Take a look at the Spurs payroll.

KYLE ANDERSON - Former PAC 12 player of the year - point guard-2 guard-small forward take your pick. Unselfish player who is a high level passer, penetrator, defender, and shot maker. Great teammate and never complains and is very coachable. Extremely high basketball IQ.
2017 SALARY = $1,192,080 - 2018 SALARY = $2,151,704 - 2019 SALARY = $3,227,500
KYLE ANDERSON WOULD BE THE PISTONS BEST OVERALL PLAYER IF HE WORE A PISTON UNIFORM NO QUESTION. HE WOULD BE THE POINT GUARD THE PISTONS HAVEN'T HAD SINCE BILLUPS.

DEJOUNTE MURRAY - Outstanding quickness, really good defender, high basketball IQ player who steps in when needed to give toughness. Sees the floor well and is not a selfish player.
2017 SALARY - $1,180,080.00 THE SPURS HAVE HIM LOCKED UP FOR 4 MORE SEASONS FOR MONEY MUCH LIKE HIS 2017 SALARY.

JONATHAN SIMMONS - Simmons has been the surprise player of the playoffs. He is tough, smart, and has made key shots while playing hard ass defense for Pop.
2017 SALARY - $874,636.00 THE SPURS HAVE NOT YET SIGNED HIM TO A LONGER CONTRACT TERM.

DANNY GREEN - We all know Green was the guy who had no interest in playing for Stan Van Gundy and his lame offense where he would have stood milling around at some lonesome corner like Stanley Johnson or KCP while Stan's fantastic point guards create something for themselves or Andre Drummond. Green made a smart decision. Green is another hard nosed defender so I am surprised that SVG wanted him on the team.
2017 SALARY - $10,000,000.00. THAT AMOUNT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR KCP ACCORDING TO THE WORLD ACCORDING TO STAN VAN GUNDY.

GINOBILI - NEED I SAY ANYTHING MORE? GINOBILI HAS BEEN A REAL LEADER IN THIS SERIES AGAINST HOUSTON. HE HAS MADE BIG PLAY AFTER BIG PLAY AND HAD A STAND OUT PERFORMANCE IN THE 5TH GAME AND CAME UP WITH A DECIDING BLOCK ON HOUSTON'S LAST POSSESSION. THE FORMER PISTON KILLER IS STILL THE MANO. BY THE WAY I HAVE NEVER SEEN GINOBILI FOOLISHLY DANCING IN THE CIRCLE BEFORE HOME GAMES. HE IS ALL BUSINESS LIKE OUR BAD BOYS WERE. BASKETBALL IQ IS OFF THE CHARTS...
2017 SALARY - $14,000,000.00

TONY PARKER - NEED I SAY MORE, TONY IS INJURED AT THIS TIME BUT HE HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE PLAYER FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER. NOBODY HAD TO SAY WELL HE IS YOUNG BUT HE IS EXTREMELY ATHLETIC SO BE PATIENT LIKE THEY DO WITH DRUMMOND. PARKER IS ANOTHE FORMER PISTON KILLER WHO IS A REAL NO NONSENSE PLAYER WITH AN EXTREMELY HIGH BASKETBALL IQ.
2017 SALARY - $14,445,313.00. THIS IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY FOR KCP. HE IS A MAX PLAYER AND DETROIT WILL MATCH ANY OFFER REGARDLESS OF THE AMOUNT.

KAWHI LEONARD - Leonard has established himself as one of the premier All Star players in the NBA and he is still working hard to get even better. A supreme defender, high basketball IQ player who plays unselfishly yet leads all scorers on his team. He is injured at this time but has proved to everyone that he is a MVP guy every season. KAWHI IS EXCEPTIONAL IN EVERY AREA. HE PLAYS THE RIGHT WAY AND DOESN'T FORCE ANYTHING YET HAS THE GUTS TO DIG DOWN DEEP WHEN IT COUNTS ON THE DEFENSIVE END. KAWHI IS MY FAVORITE NBA PLAYER IN THIS ERA.
2017 SALARY = $17,138,000 - 2018 SALARY = $18,868,875.00
NOTE THAT ANDRE DRUMMOND WILL BE MAKING $24 MILLION THIS COMING SEASON. POPE WANTS MORE THAN LEONARD.

ALDRIDGE - Great game last night from this big guy. He has stepped up in the past a lot and proved that she is a outstanding player unlike Andre Drummond.
SALARY - 2017 = $20,575,000.00 - 2018 = 21,461,010.00
WOW IS ANYONE SURPRISED THAT STAN VAN GUNDY IS PAYING MORE FOR HIS CAPTAIN AD?


I WANT ANDERSON, MURRAY, SIMMONS AND MILLS. I WOULD TAKE THE SPURS BENCH GUYS FOR ANY OF DETROIT'S PLAYERS NOW TODAY. EVERY PLAYER HAS A HIGH BASKETBALL IQ UNLIKE OUR PLAYERS. ALL SPURS PLAYERS PLAY HARD ON THE DEFENSIVE END AND SHARE THE BASKETBALL. MEANWHILE, STAN VAN GUNDY WILL CONTINUE TO TURN OVER EVERY ROCK TO FIND BETTER 3 POINT SHOOTERS. BASKETBALL IQ MEANS NOTHING. WE NEED 3 POINT SHOOTERS. DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ANDERSON PLAYING FOR THE PISTONS UNDER A NEW COACH.

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DX

Post  Oracle on Fri May 12, 2017 5:42 am

deusXango wrote:That's the unaddressed elephant in the room; SVG doesn't play fair with this teams players and fans ignore it, saying SVG is/was a great coach back in the day.

After Reggie's "injury" why didn't SVG allow Ish to play out the string; Ish did have the team on a roll finally.

Replacing Harris in the starting lineup with Leuer to justify Reggie's inadequate play as our PG; Harris never had the consistent piss-poor showings that Leuer had, but he never regained his starting spot. - These are a lot of the errors SVG made responding to Reggie's injury. Don says that the offense is predictable, I understand what he means, but most offenses are fairly predictable, the question is if you can stop what you know is coming. With a healthy Reggie, we showed last season that we're hard to stop. My point is that you can't fully judge any team that's missing their most important part.

Playing KCP all those non-productive minutes when someone else should've been on the floor (Johnson) and allowing him to continue to hoist up shots that clanged off the rim; who else on the team had that leeway? - Totally agree, but that also ignores the plain FACTS. KCP is our BEST 3 point shooter(35% and likely higher in the clutch), sure Bullock shoots the 3 at 38%, but he took 1/10th of the shots that KCP took, so his percentage surely would have went down. Even so, there were games where I thought KCP should be sitting more, and that's a huge mistake by SVG because that's how you discover talent buried on your bench. His biggest crime is lack of curiosity about the talent he has staring him in the face.

Not playing Ellenson earlier in the season once it was realized that Morris was less than 100% and Leuer was sucking; why wasn't Ellenson ever paired with Harris on the court? - Ditto

When/how did Morris become our SF when last year he was our PF when we made the playoffs? Isn't Morris and Harris the same size? The only major difference is Harris has a more diversified game.- Harris is at least an inch taller at 6'9, Morris is closer to 6'8.

Beno was removed from the rotation for what now? I forget. It was clear to me that Smith coming off the bench behind Jackson was too much of a strain on the team (different styles of play and when Ish tried to play like Reggie, he sucked); Ish and Beno were the two best PG's on this team all year IMHO.- Another dumb move because Beno is one of our better 3 point shooters. I agree him minutes should have been reduced, but not to ZERO! There appears to be no middle ground with SVG, it's either that you play or you don't.

I know Boban can "steal" major minutes from Drummond, because he should've been playing major minutes this year, instead of Andre and Baynes eating up all the minutes at the center spot; damn the 3pointers, quality big man play still rules in this league and we had some quality big men that were not deployed properly.- Damn straight!
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