Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

The PG situation could still work if they make the obvious move and switch RJ with Ish... This way Ish can get the ball moving early and put the starters in a good position to score... Also get some easy transition buckets.
With Tobias back in the starting lineup the bench can use a primary scorer like RJ.

Then what do you do when Ish Smith gets tired? Reggie Jackson is not a healthy man. He can't defend 2nd unit players. And Reggie will not look any better on offense. SVG is hiding Reggie by starting him knowing most NBA players don't play much defense and use the first quarter to warm up.

Sorry but I cannot buy into the idea that Ish Smith is a solid point guard even with the 2nd unit. He is fast but dominates the basketball which results in no movement by the other 4 players. And how can Smith defend Wall when Detroit plays Washington. Will SVG switch KCP on to Wall while Smith defends Beal. This entire team is a big joke and the joke is on us Piston fans who want to believe the coach can turn dirt into gold. The makeup of the entire team is not right. Management has not thought out how things would play out when they signed so many fringe players turning them into very wealthy men without the skills necessary to beat any playoff caliber team.

The best Piston point guard that I have watched this season is Beno. He is the best option by far. Beno uses his head and stays under control on offense and is a decent defender. When Jackson was out, I relaxed a lot more when Beno was in charge of the offense and my best guess is that the rest of the players on the team would prefer playing with Beno over Jackson or Smith. Neither Jackson or Smith can defend any starting point guard in the NBA. So I am not scratching my head wondering why Van Gundy is not starting Smith over Jackson. Have any of you wondered a bit about Smith's crazy moments that happens often when he decides to take the inbound pass and just go down the court and shoot it without passing? Several times this season he has done it 4 or 5 times in a row and has missed every shot he took. Tell me you would want to play with this man during those spells.

[BallinD]

No Brandon Knight, No Eric Bledsoe, No Devin Booker.  No problem!!

SVG: Oh damn..."We couldn't guard anybody." "We got off to a slow start." "I don't know.  I really don't know. So I really don't know."

Buy a clue Stan.  The team (at full strength) is obviously looking ahead to Brooklyn.  Oh wait, they beat us too.

[Oracle]

That's how it's done!  Been following them since 1965, and know that they've had really good/ great NCAA tournament success.  This feels like one of the biggest wins ever for the program, even though it's far from certain they'll even win another game.  I suppose that's a crazy way to see things.

It's big Sparma, and honestly, I didn't expect it!

Now if only State can knock off Kansas, but it's Kansas 40-29!

[Sparma]

That's how it's done! Been following them since 1965, and know that they've had really good/ great NCAA tournament success. This feels like one of the biggest wins ever for the program, even though it's far from certain they'll even win another game. I suppose that's a crazy way to see things.

[Oracle]

@Ballin, you are the man... Weggie?   Yup, that's about the size of it, LOL! And yes SVG speaks out of both sides of his mouth while also speaking with forked tongue.

@Merc - Both you and Ballin are pointing out the same logical thing to do!

SVG creates the problem, then complains about the problem he creates.

He complains about how tired Reggie is, but he's the clown that puts him in the game for those minutes.

If he started Ish and let Reggie get backup minutes... problem solved! Reggie is rested and effective and the starters are more involved and productive.

But Phillip is spot on, I'm totally unsure of Reggie's physical ability to be the PG we need in the future!

[merc]

The PG situation could still work if they make the obvious move and switch RJ with Ish... This way Ish can get the ball moving early and put the starters in a good position to score... Also get some easy transition buckets.
With Tobias back in the starting lineup the bench can use a primary scorer like RJ.

[BallinD]

Today we get the battle of the three-time losers.  Both Phoenix and Detroit are on a negative roll x3 and scuffling for the cellar.  Do the Pistons even want these games down the stretch?  Survey sez, maybe.  Have they quit on SVG? Maybe again.

Bumping his gums about getting slow starts. well maybe you should draw up a play or two, instead of dumping the ball into Dre for a 15-foot hook, or letting Reggie pass to himself to start the game off right.  Best Friends!
Revolutionary thought, really shake up the starting lineup?!?!?!  instead of dinking around with Tobias.  Try Stanley in there, but I think the chemistry was killed on this team way back when he shoved an injured RJax back in the lineup and then berated his players for wanting to "Play The Right Way."

Oracle, I'm not taking this personally, but it grinds my gears that SVG is always picking on Tobias and Ish.  In that quote, he disproved his own point.

And of course, I want Weggie out of here in the worst way.  This team is no fun to watch, since SVG squashed the Ish roll and then doubled down.  I know he wants three point shooters and Tobias ain't that, so yeah.  Go Pistons.

[BallinD]

Today we get the battle of the three-time losers. Both Phoenix and Detroit are on a negative roll x3 and scuffling for the cellar. Do the Pistons even want these games down the stretch? Survey sez, maybe. Have they quit on SVG? Maybe again.

Bumping his gums about getting slow starts. well maybe you should draw up a play or two, instead of dumping the ball into Dre for a 15-foot hook, or letting Reggie pass to himself to start the game off right. Best Friends!
Revolutionary thought, really shake up the starting lineup?!?!?! instead of dink around with Tobias. Try Stanley in there, but I think the chemistry was killed on this team way back when he shoved an injured RJax back in the lineup and then berated his players for wanting to "Play The Right Way."

Oracle, I'm not taking this personally, but it grinds my gears that SVG is always picking on Tobias and Ish. In that quote, he disproved his own point.

And of course, I want Weggie out of here in the worst way. This team is no fun to watch, since SVG squashed the Ish roll and then doubled down. I know he wants three point shooters and Tobias ain't that, so yeah. Go Pistons.

[Oracle]

Me Personally, I hope the Pistons miss out on the playoff this year. The boys have some in-house issues that need to be fixed.


First and foremost. Let's all admit that Reggie Jackson got us. He got the Pistons and now they have overpaid for A out of shape, bad health, always dehydrated or exhausted, bad knee, point guard who is not even the best point guard on this Detroit Pistons team.

Jackson has suck the life out of this team. I believe this team is very talented but without A lead ball handler who knows how to get the most out of everybody, nobody can see all the talent this team has.


Reggie has to go. The Pistons will have to draft A PG and maybe trade for one also. I was really high on Alford Payton but now he has had two or three, triple doubles so now Orlando will not move the kid.

This  season has been A total            I am eady

I am ready for this season to be over already....

Your comment in blue is what I keep saying! This is a talented team being run so badly you have to look hard to see how good it really is by only changing a couple of parts. Great Post Phillip!

Let's get Ellenson some PT and allow Stanley to work more on his game for a start.

Secondly, let's play the young bench guys that never see PT to figure out who we need to keep.

Also add Boban to that list!

[Oracle]

You never explained why you think he is "the worst fitting player on the team."  Because the very physical, JYD vet P.J. Tucker D'd him up, is that it?  He generally gets buckets when we need it, and also has been playing much more aggressive and effective defense of late. BTW, Isiah Thomas identified him as probably the best player on our team. I think you are reaching.

I'm at a loss how to express it better unless it has to be all in one place to be clear. I gave the main reason in a different location of the two posts, so let me pull it together.

Harris is NOT the stretch SF or PF that SVG wants in his offense... plain and simple! I told you that he refuses to jack up 3's the way SVG wants(how many articles has SVG complained about this?), where as Morris will happily accommodate.

The reaching comment struck me as strange... reaching for what? I like Harris and I'm stating some basic facts about SVG's offense and Harris's behavior which are not in dispute, then offering an opinion, which is this that he, above all is the worst fit. That's not a reach, it's an opinion.

You seem to be taking this personally. I say that because of the reaching comment coupled with the odd assumption that somehow Harris was being singled out. Did you somehow miss the comments about Reggie?

Pointing out the P.J. Tucker thing was there to demonstrate how a player like Harris can be easily dominated by a lesser, IMO, player(oops, is that a reach?). If you saw the game, this was ugly and embarrassing.

[Phil-Good]

Me Personally, I hope the Pistons miss out on the playoff this year. The boys have some in-house issues that need to be fixed.


First and foremost. Let's all admit that Reggie Jackson got us. He got the Pistons and now they have overpaid for A out of shape, bad health, always dehydrated or exhausted, bad knee, point guard who is not even the best point guard on this Detroit Pistons team.

Jackson has suck the life out of this team. I believe this team is very talented but without A lead ball handler who knows how to get the most out of everybody, nobody can see all the talent this team has.


Reggie has to go. The Pistons will have to draft A PG and maybe trade for one also. I was really high on Alford Payton but now he has had two or three, triple doubles so now Orlando will not move the kid.

This season has been A total I am eady

I am ready for this season to be over already....

[BallinD]

SVG on Harris Harris, who scored 14 points on 5-of-10 shooting in first of 14 straight starts in the Pistons' lineup, was taken out of the game with 3:29 left and Detroit trailing by two points.

By the time he returned, nearly two minutes later, the deficit had ballooned to 10.

"Tobias just, look, he couldn't do anything with P.J. Tucker," Van Gundy said. "Nothing. We got him the ball a couple times and he got stripped. He couldn't do anything with P.J. Tucker. I love Tobias in the game, but he wasn't helping us offensively at that point. That matchup was taking him out."

Ok, he shot 50% from the field in the game.  He normally shoots a higher percentage than all our players.  He went out, we were down 2.  By the time he returned, the deficit had ballooned to 10.  Tobias is no basketball god, but Oracle, I think even by his own admission and words SVG (Stupid Van Gundy) just negated his own argument.  

In no way, should Tobias be singled out as the problem or a part of the problem.  I think if anything, he should get more shots and should routinely be a secondary or tertiary option in P&R sets when (as often happens) the first option gets stuffed.  IMO, SVG has mis-used Tobias as much as any player, including KCP and Ish.  Just Sayin!

You never explained why you think he is "the worst fitting player on the team."  Because the very physical, JYD vet P.J. Tucker D'd him up, is that it?  He generally gets buckets when we need it, and also has been playing much more aggressive and effective defense of late. BTW, Isiah Thomas identified him as probably the best player on our team. I think you are reaching.

[Oracle]

These two players would be the logical to get rid of, and this game against Toronto clarified Reggie's issue and exposed Harris for who he is.

Reggie: SVG had to take Reggie out of the game in the 4th because he was totally drained! This isn't new, this is a big red flag!

Reggie has had a LOT of trouble with stamina since he came here, likely related to his asthma. Currently the issue has not been the knee, but ability to expend the energy to do what he used to do. If we can unload him, we better do it and try to get the best return we can.

Harris: As I said, he's one of the least athletic players we have, and when a 23 year old(Harris) 6'9 guy gets his azz kicked by a 31 year old 6'5 guy(P.J. Tucker) with average NBA talent, you need to start asking questions. I was effing pissed when the Toronto players were flexing their muscles in the 4th on our floor and our guys looking like puppies with their tail between their legs... that's disgusting!

Here's the skinny on both of these dudes:

"Yeah, he looked to me - again - tired," Van Gundy said. "And so, I got him back in at the end. He had one great attack at about the seven-minute mark, to the basket to score. And then we ran two more pick and rolls and he just came off slowly and really didn't try to do anything.

"He just looked tired to me."

It marked the second straight game Jackson, who missed the first 21 games of the season after having a procedure to treat tendinitis in his left knee, has been pulled from a game due to apparent fatigue.

Detroit's second-highest scorer, Tobias Harris, fell on a similar fate - though for a very different reason.

Harris, who scored 14 points on 5-of-10 shooting in first of 14 straight starts in the Pistons' lineup, was taken out of the game with 3:29 left and Detroit trailing by two points.

By the time he returned, nearly two minutes later, the deficit had ballooned to 10.

"Tobias just, look, he couldn't do anything with P.J. Tucker," Van Gundy said. "Nothing. We got him the ball a couple times and he got stripped. He couldn't do anything with P.J. Tucker. I love Tobias in the game, but he wasn't helping us offensively at that point. That matchup was taking him out."

Tucker scored all eight of his points in the fourth quarter, where Toronto scored 27 and outscored the Pistons by 18. It was Detroit's third straight loss, knocking below the Eastern Conference playoff cut line with 13 games to go

[Oracle]

SVG appears to NOT be a coach that can get the best out of the players he has, and is at his best when he gets players that fit his desired offensive scheme. So where do we stand?

What SVG Needs:
SVG has little to no use for SG's, they don't generally figure in his offense and no plays are run for them, they're simply there to defend and get out of the way of his important pieces. Wakeup call KCP... find another team.

SVG wants his forwards shooting 3's all night long, he want his center to defend and clean up the boards, any offense is greatly appreciated, but not necessary.

His focus is on the SF, PF and PG positions! The first 2 are supposed to spread the floor and the guard should be a total disruptor.

What he has:
PG: Reggie can be that PG, but Ish is more like the PG SVG needs. He's closer to Nelson & Jennings than Reggie is, but Reggie is close enough to get it done if he's healthy. But health is NOT the real issue with Reggie, more on that in the next post.

PF: Harris is a totally bad fit for SVG's offense! It doesn't matter if he plays SF or PF, he's the worst fitting player on the team. more on that in the next post.

SF: Morris is also a poor fit, but only because his 3 point shooting is so off and on. Otherwise, unlike Harris, he'll take as many 3's as SVG wants unlike Harris who is too smart to do things he knows he's not good at.

Center: Drummond isn't the center he needs defensively, but he does make up for it in other areas. He is limited by the fact that Reggie is useless this year and SVG won't start Ish who could lite a fire into the team on both ends and make Drummond look more like last years model.

SG: KCP is exactly what SVG wants and is the BEST fit for his offense of any of the other players. his problem is that because everyone else is such a poor fit he needs to do double time on both ends of the floor and his game is a prisoner of who the starting PG is. As soon as Reggie appeared to be back is exactly when KCP's numbers went down as Reggie dominates the ball.

The obvious solution: Change the offensive design to fit the players you have... but it's the one thing SVG will not do.

[Oracle]

Let me preface my comments by saying that I mean no disrespect to you, in fact I mostly agree with you, but folks around here are so sensitive that they get upset when someone points out simple facts.

Yes, it it's NOT all about talent... but respectfully, that wasn't the question. You gave a good answer to another question and I'm glad you did, because a LOT of people confuse the question(see Don/Cool Breeze).

Don is living in the 80's and damn near any of the top Pistons we have now are MUCH better athletes than the Bad Boys were, they're simply more talented in that respect, Zeke admitted as much recently!

So let me start with Harris. Harris is one of the least athletic members of this team, that's why I and anybody that looks for a player in this league rate him low. Harris has great basketball IQ, and many people think he's better than he is because he's smart.

A players base talent is not the only thing, but it's the most important thing he brings to the table!

Without that talent, you typically won't even be talking about them the way we are because they won't be here, Don gets that confused. Scouts look for that talent and if it's there, then they look at the other things required for them to succeed. They do this because talent tells you how high a players ceiling is if he can put the other things together, that's why Harris got traded to us, because they had a higher ceiling player.

Some of those things can be taught, some come with development and experience. What Don calls BBall IQ is a learned thing, just like most things learned, some learn it early, some later and a small few never do or learn it too late to do them any good.

When a player has talent, you have to make decisions about how long the other things will take, not the snap judgements casual fans make, they want what they want right now with no care about the unintended consequences.

So when I answered the question, I looked at talent, I know that we have players that need better coaching to get where they need to be, but I know something else that some here seem to forget in their haste to hate.

1. Last year this team displayed everything that we're looking for this year. They were mentally tough, closed out games and played smart down the stretch most night. in short, they looked like a team on the verge of making themselves into a contender.

2. They looked like that team this year for a short run and that was no accident.

If you string those two facts together, you have to come to the conclusion that something different is in play!

IMO, it's a combination of coaching and injury, NOT the players who are basically playing slightly better statistically.

That's why I hesitate to judge this teams performance, because we're judging them based on conditions we can't trust. I wasn't excited about them being in 7th place because I knew from watching League Pass that there were teams right behind them that were playing WAY better ball, and it was only a matter of time before they were out of the playoffs unless they could start playing better.

Oh well, time to get off the soapbox

[cool breeze]

MY Father had a lot of game film on George Yardley who was one smart basketball player. It is a joke to call any of our current Piston players talented. Fans have some weird definitions of the word TALENTED. One yard stick we should all use to bring fans back down to Earth would be to think for a minute and try to think of any current Piston player who is even the 5th best player at his position in the entire league. I can't think of any player on this current team. Then try to figure out which Piston player could actually start for any of the top 5 teams. There is no way that our franchise player, Andre Drummond could earn many minutes at all on top team. You need great chemistry to be a top NBA team and Andre Drummond is a chemistry killer because he is still a project type player not actually good enough to make good decisions so he could gain the trust of top tier players. We have had several teams in past eras that have had one to several players who could fit nicely into any of the current top tier teams in the NBA today. Has anyone ever watched game film of Dave Bing after he was drafted by the Pistons? Early on Bing was easy to spot on any given night as a top tier talent according to NBA standards.

Some fans mention heart as being a factor when defining a talented player. Oracle thinks that fundamentally sound players can be created and that ingredient when judging players should not be mentioned as a factor. So if you are a dancer and compete on So You Think You Can Dance how do you define talent? Isn't it a requirement that you have to be fundamentally sound in showing that you have all the dance steps down? If you do not come into the NBA as a fundamentally sound player, there is no way in hell that you will ever become fundamentally sound no matter how long you play the game. Have you ever watched small kids ski? They learn the fundamentals quickly and are so close to the ground that gravity is never a problem. How about adults who try to ski after the age 25 is it easy for them and can they ever become as good as the kid who started at age 6? Isiah Thomas was fundamentally sound when he was in the 8th grade. Bill Russell was fundamentally sound early on because he wanted to be the best big man in the world. Bill Walton was one of the most complete fundamentally sound players that I ever saw. He knew everything about how to play the game perhaps because he was a guard before suffering a knee injury and then growing 8 inches in a short time. The reason why Andre Drummond struggles so much mentally is the fact that he never learned how to play the right way. He has to think before he acts on defense. Nothing comes automatic. If you are a novice in your sport how in hell can anyone call someone who plays like a beginner TALENTED? Former top tier All Star type players would laugh at all of you who have tried to fit our current players into something that they can never fit into.

One clear measuring stick that determines who is a talented (which means smart fundamentally sound players who beat the hell out of the rest of the cannon fodder) is how players handle themselves in a NBA half court offense. If you look at the Spurs, you will find a group of crafty players who can always function well when the shot clock gets close to 24 seconds. Those players are capable of running a 3rd, 4th or 5th option without showing panic. Watching this group of misfits that make up this current Piston roster, all I see are players who panic if the shot clock gets down to 15 seconds. In this last loss against Toronto it should have been clear to anyone that our players are mentally challenged. They don't know what to do. The offense is designed for dummies not talented players. If you are deemed talented you are a player who can show opposing players that you know what to do and actually do it on the floor when it counts no matter what opposing players might try. If my defender is doing one thing I will do the counter to that thing. Our players can't react quick enough to do much of anything but jack up a low percentage shot against pressure. Toronto proved that last night because they knew how mentally challenged our players are when they try to play the half court offense. The Pistons do not play a game designed for 5 players. Three players are always standing around watching while knowing that they have no function at all most of the time. Whenever you see point guards coming down the floor and just shooting the ball without any plan in mind, you know that you are watching a bunch of mentally challenged players trying to play the game of basketball but doing a horrible job of it.

What needs to happen is for the owner to become more involved with this team himself and get outside opinions relating to the quality of players on this roster. If Stan Van Gundy is doing the best he can under the circumstances relating to the actual abilities of this current players than so be it. I think that might be the truth after watching such lame performances all year long from our starters. Stan Van Gundy most likely has to run an offense designed for dummies. I am sure he would not run that offense if he had the talent that shows brightly almost every night with the Spurs players. He would be much happier watching his players use a 3rd, 4th or 5 option while taking advantage of the entire shot clock instead of just shooting the ball within the first 10 seconds of gaining a possession. That type of basketball is very deflating for any basketball player. You run back hard on defense and work hard to prevent a score. Then just as you get the ball back and you have crossed half court, one of your teammates has already jacked up a long rang shot against good pressure. Last night our players shot the long jump shot so much against strong pressure I couldn't believe my eyes. WHY?????? You have to be an idiot to do that. And this coach allows that kind of thing to happen as if it is part of the game plan. KCP has a green light to shoot the worst type of off balance shots you could ever attempt. He has made some of those stupid shots in the past so the coach let's him do it. So how many games have the Pistons lost because KCP has decided to shoot the rock in the 4th quarter against great pressure compared to the amount of games he has helped win while gambling with a low percentage shot choice?

How is it that we see college players running plays and making a lot of passes while screening and moving without the ball fast without having to think much? Andre Drummond never did that in his college experience. He didn't really have much of any experience in that one year of college. what did it do before college to become a talented player in the sense of being a guy other players really want to play with? Andre is just one of many Pistons who are missing one or two qualities that they will never acquire in their entire careers no matter how hard they might try. Reggie Jackson has always been a horrible defender. He is just a little bet worse than his normal this season so why be surprised.

Again, I say that the owner needs to take stock of the quality of players he is paying for now and if they do not meet the requirements necessary to ever be part of a winning NBA team, then please cut your loses and get rid of most of them and start again. Hire somebody who knows real talent and potential too. It makes me sad to watch this team on most nights. Can the owner really be happy????

[Sparma]

I think so. I see us going 5-2 in the next games. A tougher stretch follows though. The team would need to go 9-4 to get to the 42-40 I projected at the beginning of the season.

Listened to a lot of the game. Mahorn was at a loss for words at the end. You could hear the crowd going nuts when Toronto had a big play, which was pretty maddening for a home game.

[BallinD]

IMO, it's not all about talent.
 We have plenty of talent, what has it gotten us this year?  It's also about heart, (who really wants it), It's about team (who makes others better) it's about BBall IQ, which is about recognizing and exploiting opponents schemes and their weaknesses, synergy with teamates, moving the ball, moving without the ball, taking the smart shot, riding the hot hand and getting to the line.  And it's about Leadership.  I'll call it the "It" factor.  Those who have "It" are Ballers.

Ballers: Talent + Heart + BBIQ

Shout-outs to the Talented Difference Makers on our team:

Tobias -- More Talent, some Heart, BBIQ ok.  Leadership TBD...though I think he is growing into it
Marcus -- More Heart than Talent, BBIQ, Avg. In love with his jumper, streaky shooter, works hard on D, Leadership++
Ish --  Equal parts Heart and Talent.  BBIQ avg.  Leadership by example++
Baynes -- More Heart than Talent.  BBIQ avg. Great Leadership++

Honorable Mention:  Too inconsistent to be a Difference Maker
KCP -- More Heart than Talent, BBIQ below avg, but loads of athleticism.  Leadership+ not afraid to take the big shot.
SJ --  More Heart than Talent, great physicality.  BBIQ above avg. Leadership+ by example, won't back down to a challenge.

Oracle
The most talented players on this team are shown below, in order of how talented I see them.

1. Reggie Jackson when healthy.  Talented with heart, but little leadership and little BBIQ
2. Andre Drummond when used right  Talented with very intermittent heart.  Little leadership, little BBIQ
3. KCP, again, when used right  see above
4. Marcus Morris when used right see above
5. Harris is 5th only because he only complements see above
6. Ellenson, with experience, could be as high as 3 Inc.
7. Ish Smith, who's very underrated see above
8. Stanley Johnson, who's talented but may never fit anywhere see above
9. Leuer, barely makes the list and who is holding down Ellenson's spot Not an impact player

deusXango

"IMHO; the forwards are the most talented players on this TEAM and they include, Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Jon Leuer, Stanley Johnson, and Henry Ellenson...period. Our 2nd tier, backup PG's are talented, albeit limited in areas of concern. I honestly don't know what our SG's bring to the table because, KCP consistently eats up so much PT"

[Oracle]

Fortunately, I have both , so DX, here's mine.

The most talented players on this team are shown below, in order of how talented I see them.

1. Reggie Jackson when healthy
2. Andre Drummond when used right
3. KCP, again, when used right
4. Marcus Morris when used right
5. Harris is 5th only because he only complements
6. Ellenson, with experience, could be as high as 3
7. Ish Smith, who's very underrated
8. Stanley Johnson, who's talented but may never fit anywhere
9. Leuer, barely makes the list and who is holding down Ellenson's spot

I know folks won't agree with me, but trading Jackson or Drummond after one bad year is lunacy!

Look at the Wizards! Didn't make the playoffs last year, everybody questioned if Wall & Beal could ever play together, questions all throughout the lineup(Porter).

They basically return the same team and they're a top team now because they did not panic.

We will have to make some changes due to finances, KCP comes to mind, but if you think there's something on the bench that hasn't played that's good, you simply haven't been paying attention.

The teams that panic over this kind of stuff are perpetually stuck in the middle. Too afraid to make the right decision but scared enough to make the wrong ones.

I hope SVG isn't that dumb!

[deusXango]

IMHO; the forwards are the most talented players on this TEAM and they include, Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Jon Leuer, Stanley Johnson, and Henry Ellenson...period. Our 2nd tier, backup PG's are talented, albeit limited in areas of concern. I honestly don't know what our SG's bring to the table because, KCP consistently eats up so much PT...Reggie Bullock has shown to be a reliable asset in his limited opportunities to play, but Drummond should've been traded for Cousins (hat's off to Wise) but, Divac fu@ked that up royally. Jackson should've been traded for a promising SG and/or 1st round pick but, SVG fu@ked that up.....royally! I believe our backup PG's would've made a greater, positive impact, on this season than Jackson. In short, our record wouldn't be any worse than it is now (possibly better) with the focus geared toward featuring our forwards, and damn that 1 in 4 out and P & R featuring Jackson and Drummond exclusively! The TEAM was beginning to roll behind Ish and Beno.

SVG and Bower should have a ball park guesstimate of what Drummond and Jackson are worth, so do the best they can in the off-season to bring in pieces that fit and bring the payroll under control (inline with the talent we do have; talented but no stars or super stars). Here's a thought, New Orleans may have soured on Cousins by the summer, so a trade of Drummond for Cousins may still be possible, however, it won't work with some punk, b!tches, coaching him. If some team wants to pay KCP an outrageous contract ($20 million per), let him walk by way of sign and trade....he ain't worth that much, really! SVG starts fresh downtown by hiring a coach! That's just my humble opinion.

[Oracle]

Talented painters paint incredible works of art(not a team activity). Talented soldiers like the Rangers and Navy Seals reach limits few humans can comprehend(yeah, each member is great on day one, no coaching or training required). Those of us who have been around basketball for most of our lives can sort out the talented from the glory hunters. To be called talented you must show that you are a fundamentally sound basketball player who is so good that that individual can get the best of other fundamentally sound basketball players(Wow, you're either taking too many drugs or not enough, I can't figure out which ).

Fundamentally sound players are CREATED, there has NEVER been a fundamentally sound player to show up anywhere on day one.

There's an old saying.

Some people have 20 years of experience, and others have one years experience 20 times... you're making absolutely no sense, IMO.

[cool breeze]

The lessons of basketball still seem to escape you at times.

Chauncey thought this team was talented, I KNOW it is!

Zeke said, when playing the Bulls that "It wasn't a battle of skills, but a battle of WILLS".

He of course meant that whatever level you are, if the skills are roughly equal, it becomes a mental game.

There are 3 components needed to get the result you seek, and you need all 3.
1. Talent
2. Coaching, i.e. a system on offense & defense
3. Mental toughness

We lack 2 of the 3 Don, so no, it's not lack of talent.

Lacking those 2 makes you think we lack talent because you don't look at things holistically, even though from time to time, you confuse mental toughness with BBallIQ, even though they are related, but not the same.

This team is not playing up to it's capability, plain and simple, that's why I cautioned everyone from getting too giddy when we won a few games.

We'll be better once we hit a few bottom feeders

Talented painters paint incredible works of art. Talented soldiers like the Rangers and Navy Seals reach limits few humans can comprehend. Those of us who have been around basketball for most of our lives can sort out the talented from the glory hunters. To be called talented you must show that you are a fundamentally sound basketball player who is so good that that individual can get the best of other fundamentally sound basketball players. The Pistons have had a few. There were easily identified. If you say the Pistons have a bunch of talented basketball players or enough of them that there is a chance Detroit could have a good team, then I must conclude that I am blind but my Dr. Says that I have 20/20 vision still. How can se say that Drummond is talented when he still can't defend my Grandmother? She still plays golf but not basketball much anymore. Still she could get her shot off in the paint the way Andre plays defense. If Drummond is talented in what way is he talented? He gets beat from baseline to baseline much like Greg Monroe who many said was really talented. Drummond can't shoot a free throw or set a solid screen. Maybe there are some amazing things he potentially could do if he decided to lose weight and get his ass in basketball game shape. Maybe he could be talented if he decided to mentally prepare for specific opponents instead of coming out in the warmups looking like he has been up all night watching the Three Stooges. Charlie V said he was talented and many Piston fans flat out said he was a very talented basketball player. Maybe I have higher standards. I only call players talented when they show that they are smarter and more dedicated to winning than the other filler players. I believe Detroit has reject players who are known throughout the league as filler players. I can only think of maybe 3 players on this team that could make a rotation on most solid NBA squads. And they would be coming off the bench. No Oracle, some of us have identified game situations where our players have clearly shown that they are not talented at all. They are not as quick, not as strong or not as smart as the players who continue to beat them and make them look silly. Stan Van Gundy's 1-4 offense doesn't look much like the standard 1-4 offense. Stan keeps things really simple for a good reason. Our players are mentally challenged and have never been able to concentrate or don't have a good enough memory to be able to run a 2nd or 3rd or 4th option. Setting double screens and having the capability to exploit opposing teams weaknesses is not a possibility it seems as they sure haven't done that yet. I see that this Piston team never changes a thing depending on who they play. Remember the days of Isiah Thomas where he would always get teammates in position to exploit any tiny weakness of a specific opponent? Now that is talent on the basketball court. We have possibly the dumbest group of players that have ever played in a Piston uniform. Either they are extremely dumb where no coach can communicate with them successfully to make a positive impact, or our players just don't care enough to get better. Charles Barkley picked the last choice earlier in the season. Either our players are brain dead or they are lazy ass I don't give a crap type people. I am not referring to players like Morris and Harris here. We do have a few players on the team that play the right way.

Overall, this team sure looks like an easy out on most nights because they are mentally challenged when it comes to playing basketball. Maybe they are talented but won't show it because they have bad attitudes. Saying our players are talented is a very subjective statement. For the really talented players in the NBA comparing our players to those talented players would be an insult to them. I am upset and want to know why the Piston's owner has forced us to watch rejects year after year? When will we get a top tier smart basketball player on our team that other teams would at least fear????? Stan Van Gundy is much like a politician who loves to spend other peoples money. Would Stan really use his money if it came down to it to signing some of these players like Andre Drummond? Hell no. Tom Gores has so much money he doesn't really care what goes on. Are we worse off with Stan Van Gundy than we were under the rule of Joe Dumars? I never thought that I would even think of that but it is clear that the Pistons are a complete fraud right now. This isn't a real NBA team. We don't have smart and capable players for the most part. This isn't going to get any better next season. Our players tanked in December, January and Feb. when all fake players just go through the motions. I have a vision of the Pistons moving downtown and playing their games next season before 2,500 fans at most. That would be more fans than they deserve. This group of players were completely humiliated for two games in a row as the playoff approach. It seemed that they were not surprised at all.

[BallinD]

What is unfolding is the buildup to Remake The Pistons V 3.0.  Starring Stupid Van Gundy (SVG) "I cant find any shooters."  But I certainly can find the door out of the playoffs with ease.

It was a nice ride, this fantasy we've been on.  But unless Stan Van Bower can Rebuild on the Fly,  we are getting passed by the other "middling contenders" like Ish Smith on a fast break speeding by Reggie "walk it up the floor" Jackson.

IMO Equal Blame goes to SVG (Coach) and our cornerstone players Drums, RJax and KC3.  The players are at turns lazy, inconsistent, immature and petulant, but they are also playing in a flawed 1-4 scheme, with no offensive clarity, play-calling, ball movement.  If you want to see a real team, re-watch Utah's dismantling of the Stones.

Who to keep when the dust settles?  It might be still too early to tell, but if it was me, I would keep our three forwards, and Ish, SJ (maybe/maybe not) Ellensen, Silent G and Boban.  That gives us plenty room for a remake.

Don't want to go downtown in a new arena with no fans and no cheers -- just boos.  Even if Gores puts on goggles that can see through the smoke and mirrors of an exposed SVG, will he have the nads to do it? SummerTime...and the trading is easy.  This sad song is to the tune of Gershwin's Summertime.  The best version is with the great Satchmo and Ella.

[Sparma]

Oracle writes: "We'll be better once we hit a few bottom feeders.   "

Agreed.  After Toronto, there's a stretch of 7, maybe 8, eminently winnable games (depending on how you see playing Milwaukee on the road).  Then follows a stretch of 4 or 5 tougher game, with an apparent cupcake to finish.

I expect the Pistons to go on a nice little run soon, at least until the tough finish.  Will it begin with Toronto?  That game's big!

[Oracle]

The lessons of basketball still seem to escape you at times.

Chauncey thought this team was talented, I KNOW it is!

Zeke said, when playing the Bulls that "It wasn't a battle of skills, but a battle of WILLS".

He of course meant that whatever level you are, if the skills are roughly equal, it becomes a mental game.

There are 3 components needed to get the result you seek, and you need all 3.
1. Talent
2. Coaching, i.e. a system on offense & defense
3. Mental toughness

We lack 2 of the 3 Don, so no, it's not lack of talent.

Lacking those 2 makes you think we lack talent because you don't look at things holistically, even though from time to time, you confuse mental toughness with BBallIQ, even though they are related, but not the same.

This team is not playing up to it's capability, plain and simple, that's why I cautioned everyone from getting too giddy when we won a few games.

We'll be better once we hit a few bottom feeders

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