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SVG IS A BONEHEAD

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:15 pm

Okay so I'm a coach that wants to run a 4 out and 1 in with severely limited options to put this in play. Do I force pieces to fit or do I coach to my roster at hand.

See SVG was limited only because he limited himself, if we at fans could see this flawed approach clearly a coach with his level of experience should have. I'm less forgiving of SVG err's in judgement because IMO he chosed stubborness and his ego over common sense and practicality because he didn't believe his **** stanked.

He didn't look at the roster with the mindset of seeing what could work he looked at what wouldn't work for his offense. When he annointed Andre "Franchise" I knew it was a problem then and as much as I hated Moose short term he was a better option than Andre and now sadly long term as well. If this was Pat Riley oppose to SVG KCP might already be looking like a D-Wade not using players correctly doesn't fall under the limited clause.

Sadly our players are flawed not my SVG limits but his inability to coach and finding out what works best with the talent in hand.
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Misses

Post  Sparma on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:16 pm

The Moose thing was handled badly. Not saying SVG couldn't have made better choices, just that he faced severe limits (eg in getting the shooters he clearly craves). Don makes a good point about Jerebko (whom I liked), but neither examples seem like such a big deal, where the team would have been going in whole other direction if only SVG had made better choices.

Two biggies (and here I'm just going by stories):

Not trading Reggie for Rubio, but so much to get Rubio (who wouldn't fit that well), but to have a halfway decent trade to get away from Reggie.

And if a Drummond (& pieces?) for Cousins trade was briefly a possibility (as Sacs GM may have suggested) they should have gone for that. I'm not a Cousins fan really, but at least that'd be going for broke, with a high up side.

WTF wrote:I don't think SVG put his best foot forward in making his choices, I think SVG was limited by his fears and not the number of options that presneted themselves.  IMO there was a abundance of imbalance under and over thinking his choices and I'm not surprised one bit by it.  Just go back to how he handle the whole Moose thing (there was a sign and trade opportunity) he couldn't find.  Letting Moose walk was an viable option but he couldn't completely follow up the process.

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Pennies On A Dollar Perhaps

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:02 pm

Yeah you can if it's done correctly and you put a lot of thought into it. This when you toss the dumb ass analytics out the window and rely on the eye test and gut feelings. No one ever thought Atkins and Wallace equated to a Grant Hill we all thought we just recieved big turds in a sign & trade gone completely wrong.

Thing is sometimes you roll the damn dice anyway, sometime it does fill like buying that $30 scratch off and only winning $10. The moral is to at freaking try, to take a risk
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Sparma Not Always A Lack Of Choices

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:51 pm

I don't think SVG put his best foot forward in making his choices, I think SVG was limited by his fears and not the number of options that presneted themselves. IMO there was a abundance of imbalance under and over thinking his choices and I'm not surprised one bit by it. Just go back to how he handle the whole Moose thing (there was a sign and trade opportunity) he couldn't find. Letting Moose walk was an viable option but he couldn't completely follow up the process.

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I feel like the dog

Post  Sparma on Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:48 pm

in the old Far Side cartoons, that only took in a fraction of what was being said.

............................[Cool:] "maybe you are right"........................................ [Oracle:] "Sparma got it right" ............................

Bit of a narcissist maybe? Nah, not at 59.

Anyway, thanks for putting up with my pointed commentaries based on watching zero live action.
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LMAO!!!!!!

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:37 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:That wouldn't be appropriate because those guys are my friends.


WTF?? Are these guys in the witness protection program?

What's not appropriate? Are they ashamed of their opinions, oh what's the point...

Sparma, what did you mean by reveal his sources? This isn't a news investigation, what would they be hiding... salami  lol


Well Don you can't keep tossing out hearsay, not like you'll be giving up top secrets. These don't sound like currently or recent active coaches here. I think for credibilty purposes you should toss out a name or two
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LOL

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:20 pm

Lemonpen wrote:Nope. As soon as the pressure of a playoff fight is over they will win like crazy.
Bunch of quitters.

Damn, I forgot about that kicker in the contract lol lol lol
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The future is bleak...

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm

The SVG pattern is working again, where he loses his team and bad things start to happen.

Drummond is not the player we thought he would be, and Reggie will never be the guard we need due to Asthma & Stamina issues.

Beyond that there's nothing else, the future is bleak unless major moves are made.

I guess the blow it up guys have finally won me over, but I'm still with Sparma, we can't give away assets for pennies on the dollar.

Sparma got it right, SVG chose to build the team around two shaky pieces, then surrounded them with pieces that don't really fit the offense he's designed.

Of course that's the players fault according to Don and his brain trust.
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Not so fast

Post  lemonpen on Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:15 pm

Oracle wrote:Screw the playoffs, it's all about getting the best possible draft pick at this point, and if we can get some experience for the young guys, I'm all for it!
Phil1980boy wrote:Time to shut these guys down and get ready for the off season and NBA draft.

Thanks Drummonds. Get in better shape for next season.

Thanks M.Morris. Take care of those knees. Take A load off and come back better next season.

Thanks T.Harris. Do everything exactly like you did last summer. Come back even better next year as the 6th man of the year.

Reggie. Thanks for your first year and A half. IT was all star level play. Time to shut you down for the last 7 games because you have embarrassed yourself and your career this season. And your health issues are well documented.

If the Pistons plan to keep Pope. Shut him down also.

My starting 5 would be Ish, Bullock, Johnson, John Leuer, and Baynes. Next 5 would be The Euro PG, Bobain, Henry Ellinson, the other Rookies. If I need more help, I would call up guys from the D League.
Nope. As soon as the pressure of a playoff fight is over they will win like crazy.
Bunch of quitters.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:02 pm

Don wrote:That wouldn't be appropriate because those guys are my friends.


WTF?? Are these guys in the witness protection program?

What's not appropriate? Are they ashamed of their opinions, oh what's the point...

Sparma, what did you mean by reveal his sources? This isn't a news investigation, what would they be hiding... salami  lol

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:36 pm

Sparma wrote:Don's said this kind of thing a number of times, and now Stan does it to himself: "I selected everybody in that locker room. I’m the one who wanted them in there."  As I remember, Cool's said things like: SVG's got no one to blame but himself, because he made all these decisions himself, so he's got no grounds to complain.  Correct me if I'm wrong in paraphrasing, Don (btw, don't feel pressure from me to reveal your sources, unless one of them happens to be George Karl).

No need to defend SVG on all counts (yes, he seems to have a recurrent knack for alienating a goodly contingent of his players, and he seems none too creative once Plan A fails).  Still, here I'm going to defend Stan against Stan, as well as against Don.

Isn't there a logical fallacy here?  (granted, it would help if I could name it).  Equivocation, maybe?

Someone can have made decisions themselves, but still have grounds to complain.  For example, in college I chose to work night shifts as security guard patrolling the grounds in the bitterly cold '77 Illinois winter.  All my choice.  No one to blame but me.  But I didn't choose (at least unless we push responsibility back a few steps) the range of choices available to me.  So, I can complain about the job being sub-optimal even though I chose it myself.

Back to Stan.  Stan love shooters.  Tobias is an ok shooter, but he was who was available.  Stan chose him.  Leuer was a pretty good shooter (who's gotten worse as 3pt shooter with the Pistons).  Stan chose him.  Doesn't mean Stan can't see that there would have been a better option, given a different set of options.  Ish can't shoot worth a lick.  Yet Stan chose him.  Same deal.

We're responsible for choices within the range of available options.  We make sub-optimal choices all the time, which we should feel free to complain about, because we're just playing the hand we've been dealt.  

So Stan, give yourself a break.  And Don, give Stan a break.  Because that's how life works.  We can't always get what we want, as we have on good authority.

Sparma I will give SVG a break when he pays attention and takes Andre Drummond out of the game when he switches off opposing centers who are 3 feet from the basket forcing Smith to guard a guy 14 inches taller who weighs a 100 pounds more than Smith. Drummond switches a lot because he is lazy and figures he won't have to move if he switches. When players screw up like that it ruins the team's chemistry. When players know that the coach is either not watching or ignoring things like that, and then pick on the fringe players, who wants to play for that kind of a coach? Just by taking out Andre in this last game when he did that would at least let our $20 million dollar a year man know that he shouldn't be switching on defense so much. We all can see many insane decisions Drummond makes on defense in every game but the switch with Smith took the dumb ass award for the year in Piston land. I would love it if other posters would point out details they saw with individual starters and share them. Who knows maybe the offenders might get some feed back because it appears the coaching staff won't ruffle feathers. The fans who go to the games and the fans who play to watch the Pistons on television should have some voice in hopes of improving the game.

Relating to the decision making skills of SVG on selecting players maybe you are right that I have been too hard on our coach. He had limited selection opportunities. And I am still pissed that he didn't keep Jonas Jerebco a long time ago and actually give him a fair shot. Jonas might not be the best player but the fans loved him and since he left I can't see where we have any power forward who can play defense as well as he did and who shared the ball as much. But my biggest complaint is not with the players he has selected but the reason why he selected them in the first place. I am against his style of play. He picked those players to fit his style where 3 out of 5 players are always decoys on offense and only two players touch the basketball in any one possession. If he doesn't like what his players have been doing with their selfish habits, then he sure hasn't done anything about it. He likes his point guards dribbling around looking for their own shot. He has never taken out a point guard for doing just that on 3 or 4 straight possessions. Who in hell does that but Piston guards?


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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:12 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:Sorry Oracle you have no clue what in hell you are talking about relating to what impact a coach has in the NBA. I am friends with several former NBA coaches both assistant and head coaches. That is what they tell me Oracle.

That wouldn't be appropriate because those guys are my friends. But one of them used to be an assistant coach for the Pistons. He told me a story of one timeout when he told one of the Piston guards to make sure you stay tight on Eric Snow so he can't get off a 3 point shot attempt because there was only about 12 seconds left in the game and Detroit was ahead by 2 points. My friend had tried to teach this guard some basic fundamentals on the defensive end all season long but everything would go in one ear and out the other. Sure enough even though my buddy had told the Piston guard three times to remember stay close to Snow especially if he wanders beyond the 3 point line. Sure enough after the ball is inbounded and snow goes to the wing opposite of the ball, the Piston guard decides to go into the paint and forgets about Snow who receives the ball and makes the 3 point shot. That happened to me many times coaching high school ball where the opponent has the possession at the end of the game and the score is close. The worst offense once was when I took our small forward aside and told him that his guy would try to go baseline because this player on my team had given up a baseline layup to him at the end of the first half. Sure enough my player took the fake and his guy got another layup to tie the score. That was high school and not too many kids who play make that mistake. He never made it again as a player on my team and he was a good player. But considering the NBA is supposed to be the place where the best basketball is played, coaches who decide to move from coaching college players to the NBA go into shock when they first arrive. It is not the same. You are very lucky when you get players that will listen to you. And contract determine who plays as anyone can guess why. Yes the owner will get pretty pissed if the coach is not playing a guy who makes $20 million dollars a year. As for the coaching experience in the NBA, the money is great but the experience sucks for the most part. Few of my friends who are now out of coaching ever watch regular season NBA games. They watch some of the playoff games but feel the NBA is not really the way basketball should be played. But there are a few teams with players who forget about the money when the game starts. They somehow keep that beautiful spirit kids have when they play high school ball. And out of those players some lucky teams will get real leaders who get their teammates to play the right way. We have none of those players on the Piston roster.

Now I do believe that Stan Van Gundy is not qualified to be a head coach in the NBA. He has a lot of players who do not listen to him or his assistants but I would find myself tuning him off as well if he really does believe in the type of offensive style of play his players have shown us this season. This idea that you allow your players to stand around on offense while only at the most two players are active in any one possession while shooting the ball early in the shot clock has been the norm this year. Those two players who touch the basketball end up shooting contested long range jump shots. While the 20 year old Stanley Johnson is not having a good year at all, I can easily see why. This mindless system has upset his entire being to the core. And if this style is employed with every team throughout the league, his career will end quickly. I still would like to see Johnson playing point guard but he would have a style much like Spencer Dinwiddie so that will never happen.

Maybe something big is going to happen soon with SVG possibly leaving or at least moving out of the coaching end. It sucks to end the season like this group has done and even worse when you look at the teams who get to select before the Pistons many have suffered some injuries that have caused them to have more losses than the Pistons. Detroit has been at full strength for a long time excluding knee issue with Jackson earlier in the year and Bullock being in and out because of back issues and not the ankle. For the Pistons who return next year, I doubt many will be taking the summer off if they have half a brain.

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The coach can't help it?

Post  Sparma on Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:01 pm

Don's said this kind of thing a number of times, and now Stan does it to himself: "I selected everybody in that locker room. I’m the one who wanted them in there."  As I remember, Cool's said things like: SVG's got no one to blame but himself, because he made all these decisions himself, so he's got no grounds to complain.  Correct me if I'm wrong in paraphrasing, Don (btw, don't feel pressure from me to reveal your sources, unless one of them happens to be George Karl).

No need to defend SVG on all counts (yes, he seems to have a recurrent knack for alienating a goodly contingent of his players, and he seems none too creative once Plan A fails).  Still, here I'm going to defend Stan against Stan, as well as against Don.

Isn't there a logical fallacy here?  (granted, it would help if I could name it).  Equivocation, maybe?

Someone can have made decisions themselves, but still have grounds to complain.  For example, in college I chose to work night shifts as security guard patrolling the grounds in the bitterly cold '77 Illinois winter.  All my choice.  No one to blame but me.  But I didn't choose (at least unless we push responsibility back a few steps) the range of choices available to me.  So, I can complain about the job being sub-optimal even though I chose it myself.

Back to Stan.  Stan love shooters.  Tobias is an ok shooter, but he was who was available.  Stan chose him.  Leuer was a pretty good shooter (who's gotten worse as 3pt shooter with the Pistons).  Stan chose him.  Doesn't mean Stan can't see that there would have been a better option, given a different set of options.  Ish can't shoot worth a lick.  Yet Stan chose him.  Same deal.

We're responsible for choices within the range of available options.  We make sub-optimal choices all the time, which we should feel free to complain about, because we're just playing the hand we've been dealt.  

So Stan, give yourself a break.  And Don, give Stan a break.  Because that's how life works.  We can't always get what we want, as we have on good authority.
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Same old Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:56 pm

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2017/03/stan_van_gundy_flew_commercial_1.html wrote:BULLOCK INJURED: Reggie Bullock has a sprained right foot and will miss tonight's game against the Knicks. He was in a walking boot during the team's morning shootaround at John Jay College. "He's not even sure what he did," Van Gundy said.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/03/are-the-pistons-tuning-out-stan-van-gundy.html wrote: Stanley Johnson walking away from his coach during a game last week against Phoenix to visible sparring with players.

These two keep doing the same stuff over and over, but I guess Bullock can't help being injury prone and Stanley can't stay out of trouble.

BTW, isn't this always the way SVG's teams always end up?

It was easy to blame Dwight Howard, but it's beginning to look like he wasn't the only problem.
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Totally Agree...

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Screw the playoffs, it's all about getting the best possible draft pick at this point, and if we can get some experience for the young guys, I'm all for it!
Phil1980boy wrote:Time to shut these guys down and get ready for the off season and NBA draft.

Thanks Drummonds. Get in better shape for next season.

Thanks M.Morris. Take care of those knees. Take A load off and come back better next season.

Thanks T.Harris. Do everything exactly like you did last summer. Come back even better next year as the 6th man of the year.

Reggie. Thanks for your first year and A half. IT was all star level play. Time to shut you down for the last 7 games because you have embarrassed yourself and your career this season. And your health issues are well documented.

If the Pistons plan to keep Pope. Shut him down also.

My starting 5 would be Ish, Bullock, Johnson, John Leuer, and Baynes. Next 5 would be The Euro PG, Bobain, Henry Ellinson, the other Rookies. If I need more help, I would call up guys from the D League.
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Pistons back to the NBA Lottery

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:50 pm

Time to shut these guys down and get ready for the off season and NBA draft.

Thanks Drummonds. Get in better shape for next season.

Thanks M.Morris. Take care of those knees. Take A load off and come back better next season.

Thanks T.Harris. Do everything exactly like you did last summer. Come back even better next year as the 6th man of the year.

Reggie. Thanks for your first year and A half. IT was all star level play. Time to shut you down for the last 7 games because you have embarrassed yourself and your career this season. And your health issues are well documented.

If the Pistons plan to keep Pope. Shut him down also.

My starting 5 would be Ish, Bullock, Johnson, John Leuer, and Baynes. Next 5 would be The Euro PG, Bobain, Henry Ellinson, the other Rookies. If I need more help, I would call up guys from the D League.
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Name them!

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:48 am

Don wrote:Sorry Oracle you have no clue what in hell you are talking about relating to what impact a coach has in the NBA. I am friends with several former NBA coaches both assistant and head coaches. That is what they tell me Oracle.
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We Need To Get Back To The 80's

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:59 am

Lets not all play crazy here we all know what we're all looking at not just with this team but across the league. The bar is so low I don't think many player can get beneath it and its sickening to watch most night.

What I don't get is how fans that fall in my generation seems ok with the state of the league and make excuses for it. This league needs saving again in a big way and fast.

The majority of these new fans wouldn't know what great basketball looks like.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:46 pm

Oracle wrote:Wise, Trey Burkes problem is exactly as you describe, if a coach can't see how to use you you're doomed to look bad until you can find a team running a system that works for you.

Don has never been right about this yet he keeps saying the same false things every time, using the WAY outlier cases of less than 0.1% of the league to describe the whole league.

Coaching is also the Pistons problem: It's not that SVG doesn't have the players he needs, it's that he doesn't use the players he has.


http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2017/03/18/detroit-pistons-offense-stan-van-gundy/99351238/ wrote:“I feel a responsibility in terms of play-calling, and also in terms of our teaching and our habits,” Van Gundy said while shaking his head. “We watched a lot of it today … it’s just a lot of details we’re not paying attention to in terms of spacing, screening, ball movement, things like that. When you don’t do those things and execute with energy and you don’t end up with quality shots.”

Van Gundy said the team spends 75-80% of practice time on defense. Despite some inconsistencies, the defense is sixth in points allowed in the NBA (102.2).

The offense, however, is bottom five.

“I don’t think I’ve done a good enough job, really hammering home execution, basic things in our offense,” Van Gundy said. “I have to take the responsibility for that.”

Players play within systems that are determined by the coach. Sometimes they can break the rules, but only if you're a superstar, otherwise you're likely to ride the pine for failure to execute the game plan.

The fact that SVG spend so little time on offense shows up in a major way. When the going gets tough, players fall back to the only thing they know. Something needs to happen so they go ISO because they don't have any plays from the coach, or in our case, it likely is the play the coach called.

IMO, SVG has it backwards, spend the most time on offense and slowly bring in the defensive principles over time if you're building a team to compete in 3-5 years. That's how the Bad Boys did it and that's how the 2004 team got there... offense first.

Sorry Oracle you have no clue what in hell you are talking about relating to what impact a coach has in the NBA. I am friends with several former NBA coaches both assistant and head coaches. That is what they tell me Oracle. But you know better so I just wish that you could get a job coaching in the NBA and see what it is like coaching players like Andre Drummond. He has an attention span of a fly relating to learning anything about playing the 5 man game. That is why he works on his hook shot over the summer. He needs to learn how to play with five players on defense and know the rotations and what his responsibilities are within the defense. He just can't get it. The game is too fast for him. Andre is such a good example of what happens when players come into the league and get great contracts before they learn how to play the game. Do you think that for one minute Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Zeke etc, would ever allow a guy like Drummond on their team. They know is not a coachable players and he will screw up the works. Players have to have some knowledge of how to play the game before they get to the NBA. Drummond is not alone. There are many like him who are confused to the point that they shut down. If there is a coach who can transform Andre Drummond you can bet that Stan Van Gundy would have hired that person. He hired a shooting coach and Andre refused to use him. Andre Knows better. He is more comfortable working his his guy. That sure has worked out well and that is Andre the guy who doesn't now that he doesn't know. Andre Drummond is a dunk machine. He was a dunk machine in high school but couldn't get a lot of playing time in college. Surprise surprise Piston fans we have a really good dunk machine. And he can stand and get rebounds too. Look at those amazing stats. How about his teammates like Smith who had to guard an opposing center not once because Andre didn't want to move over two feet to guard his man or thought it would be cool to switch at the worst possible moment. How do you coach that type of player???

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:27 pm

deusXango wrote:Van Gundy said. "So, it becomes a vicious cycle. The idea of 'somebody's gotta step up,' well everybody has to step up, and we have to play the game better. But one guy trying to take over, I mean, for better or for worse, we're not built like that."
For the longest Van Gundy has given Reggie Jackson the green light to be the one guy to try and take over and the campaign to not trade him before/by the trade deadline was based on what he did last year as a one man wreaking crew. IMHO that was dumb sh!t.

This late in the season a hot news item is presented to Pistons fans; Pistons recall Ellenson from the D-League.....again. He has never been given decent minutes or a fair chance to grow/prove himself by Van Gundy; what makes anyone think this recent call-up will be any different? All the "reasons" given for not playing him all this season haven't changed. More dumb sh!t.

The group call for Drummonds departure because he's got such a low basketball I.Q. and lack of defensive play is totally ignoring the fact that Van Gundy has been his coach for the last 3 years (60 % his career), but the same voices say what a hell of a coach SVG is; Van Gundy dumped Sheed and "up graded" him with Aaron Gray, who's not a part of the Pistons winning tradition, nor an outstanding big man in his NBA career. The dumbest sh!t of all considering the contract he signed Drummond to.

Replacing Tobias Harris with Jon Leuer in the starting lineup; the teams leading scorer...the player who helped push us into the playoffs last year...the most consistent player in the starting lineup...WTF?! Neither Harris or Leuer are primary ball handlers, plus Leuer was signed to replace Anthony Tolliver off the bench...the way things have turned out, we could've kept Tolliver and replaced Harris with him in the starting lineup, if we were dead set on doing dumb sh!t.

No lie people, this is the most disappointing season I've witnessed in the last 10 years!! Joe's teams were obviously flawed and the coaches weren't supposed to win with the teams we had, hell, the coaches we had shouldn't have been coaching, but this guy! Unless you're sold on a snake oil salesman spinning fluff and slinging bullsh!t, you realize SVG has no business being President of the Pistons and trying to coach them also, that is, unless you have an appetite for dumb sh!t.

dX maybe telling any player that "THEY HAVE THE GREEN LIGHT" is not a smart thing to do. Remember he also told KCP that he had "THE GREEN LIGHT". Now SVG says the team is not built for one guy to take over a game. Then who does he tell players that they have "THE GREEN LIGHT"? All this team has is SHOOTERS or GUNNERS who look for their shot. Nobody is helping another player on offense or defense. It is all I am the man so get out of my way. Now the whole thing has exploded in a pill of crap. Do the Pistons actually practice at all? Do they practice setting screens and passing the ball from side to side and inside and out? Is it hey you just go out there and by the way you have the green light to shoot it anytime you want to. This is why KCP is launching those off balance 3 point shots against pressure. Maybe that is why Harris and Morris are now doing the same thing. Maybe just the fringe players are not told that they have the green light. Smith, Jackson, Morris, Harris, Drummond, Pope all have the green light. Maybe that is why I am now having a hard time staying awake watching this group of players? But I don't think that is the reason because this group of Pistons led by the $20 million dollar a year man are the dumbest group of defender any coach has ever put on the floor at one time. Everyone is on the coach. But I am on the President and the guy who picked this players in the first place. Someone mentioned Burke who is a heady type of point guard. How about Spencer Dinwiddie? He is a smart point guard. TJ McConnell was not even drafted and Philly wanted to keep him instead of Smith for good reason. He is a real point guard and would laugh at any coach that told him 'YOU HAVE THE GREEN LIGHT. Over the past losing streak this team has not been able to stop any team for any quarter. They are getting layups and 2nd and 3rd and 4th opportunities when they miss because the team leader keeps switching off his man in the paint. He guards nobody most of the time and has that dumb look on his face as if he has just had an accident in his pants. I believe Andre Drummond is not a coachable player. He has even ever been coachable so far so why do some fans believe any coach can get his up to speed on defense? We all need to move on and management needs to remove him from the team. He is a bigger problem than Reggie Jackson. His teammates know he just doesn't get it. He can't remember the game plan. He can't execute the game plan. No coach can change his mind unless they bring some electrical shock equipment into the locker room before the game starts.

Look at the way some of these college kids are playing in the tournament. Andre Drummond would have to sit on the bench on any of those teams. No college coach would trust him.

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Mind Boggling

Post  WTF on Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:57 pm

SVG wrote:“I feel a responsibility in terms of play-calling, and also in terms of our teaching and our habits,” Van Gundy said while shaking his head. “We watched a lot of it today … it’s just a lot of details we’re not paying attention to in terms of spacing, screening, ball movement, things like that. When you don’t do those things and execute with energy and you don’t end up with quality shots.”

But when you read stuff like this you have to ask why players like Burke don't fully get a chance in the league. PG control all those things SVG is saying the team don't do well. Again we watched Burke do these things for 2 seasons at Michigan he looked like a pro doing them and we passed on the opportunity to get him this season.

I swear I get so confused by this when team know they need a quality traditional PG but keep picking up knuckleheads to run their offense.
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A steady diet of dumb sh!t will make you sick to your stomach

Post  deusXango on Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:56 pm

Van Gundy said. "So, it becomes a vicious cycle. The idea of 'somebody's gotta step up,' well everybody has to step up, and we have to play the game better. But one guy trying to take over, I mean, for better or for worse, we're not built like that."
For the longest Van Gundy has given Reggie Jackson the green light to be the one guy to try and take over and the campaign to not trade him before/by the trade deadline was based on what he did last year as a one man wreaking crew. IMHO that was dumb sh!t.

This late in the season a hot news item is presented to Pistons fans; Pistons recall Ellenson from the D-League.....again. He has never been given decent minutes or a fair chance to grow/prove himself by Van Gundy; what makes anyone think this recent call-up will be any different? All the "reasons" given for not playing him all this season haven't changed. More dumb sh!t.

The group call for Drummonds departure because he's got such a low basketball I.Q. and lack of defensive play is totally ignoring the fact that Van Gundy has been his coach for the last 3 years (60 % his career), but the same voices say what a hell of a coach SVG is; Van Gundy dumped Sheed and "up graded" him with Aaron Gray, who's not a part of the Pistons winning tradition, nor an outstanding big man in his NBA career. The dumbest sh!t of all considering the contract he signed Drummond to.

Replacing Tobias Harris with Jon Leuer in the starting lineup; the teams leading scorer...the player who helped push us into the playoffs last year...the most consistent player in the starting lineup...WTF?! Neither Harris or Leuer are primary ball handlers, plus Leuer was signed to replace Anthony Tolliver off the bench...the way things have turned out, we could've kept Tolliver and replaced Harris with him in the starting lineup, if we were dead set on doing dumb sh!t.

No lie people, this is the most disappointing season I've witnessed in the last 10 years!! Joe's teams were obviously flawed and the coaches weren't supposed to win with the teams we had, hell, the coaches we had shouldn't have been coaching, but this guy! Unless you're sold on a snake oil salesman spinning fluff and slinging bullsh!t, you realize SVG has no business being President of the Pistons and trying to coach them also, that is, unless you have an appetite for dumb sh!t.
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SVG Is Full Of It

Post  WTF on Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:42 pm

SVG has been coaching too long in the NBA to be giving this excuse or any other for this matter. One would think that all his I's are dotted and all hie T's are crossed. He sounds like a rookie coach and that's a bad sign and a reason he should fire himself.

How do you not know how to prepare your team, use your roster correctly and call more than 2 plays during a course of a game. I just don't accept SVG BS explanation of things. Again this crap is coming from a coach who's been there and done that my guess is SVG is way over his head and too stubborn to admit it. I think SVG made some wrong decisions in personnel and can't admit it.

He should have bitten on the Rubio trade IMO, really he should have nevered signed him but he did knowing Jennings was better equipe to run this team but fear of Jennings injury got the best of him. If nothing else Jennings should be still a back up which is a far better option than Ish.

Stanley is a wasted pick what more can you say. Yes he was a feel good story and looked like a steal in the draft but we didn't need him and we should have used that pick on a PG.

Fire Sale? At least 3 changes need to occur within the starting 5 period!!!! Starting with both guard position but I would not be oppose to demoting Andre to coming off the bench if I can't move him.

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Fire Sale?

Post  Oracle on Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:40 pm

Not needed!

The Pistons simply need to make a few moves.

1. KCP: As Don continues to be wrong in saying the Pistons over value players, the real value is set by the market. Let KCP walk to free up cash and give him the opportunity to become a better player in a new system. I'm not sure if we can do a sign and trade if the team already has the money or has very little in the way of assets we can use unless a 3rd team was involved, but we'll see.

2. Stanley Johnson: Phillip, I too like the kid, but unlike Don, I look at the facts on the ground, and that tells me that he'll never work out here, and maybe not anywhere else either. His problems started in Summer League where he stunk up the joint and continued through this season. He'll never be a starting SF at his size and if he loses enough weight to ever play SG, he loses the one advantage he had in that NBA body. If there are suckers out there that want a lost tweener, jump on them now to get a 2nd round pick and maybe some cash.

3. Reggie Jackson: Get rid of him, but like Sparma said, not for pennies on the dollar. In this case patience should be used, if we don't appear to be in a panic, a good deal will likely materialize before the start of the season.

4. Let Bullock Walk and only keep Ellenson: Keep the others only if they can't be packaged into other deals. Moving Stanley might be easier if packaged with Hilliard.

5. Keep Drummond, Harris & Morris, but only if better offers don't come along, but frankly nobody wants Drummond and Morris is too good of a financial value to move. Harris is valuable to a team that needs a 3rd scorer, which is his best lot in life, so maybe he moves.

6. SVG hopefully has learned his lesson, but if he hasn't, unless we get a superstar in here, the results will be the same. Don bitching about low IQ players that are running the plays the coach called.
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Don & Wise: It's a coaches league

Post  Oracle on Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:15 pm

Wise, Trey Burkes problem is exactly as you describe, if a coach can't see how to use you you're doomed to look bad until you can find a team running a system that works for you.

Don has never been right about this yet he keeps saying the same false things every time, using the WAY outlier cases of less than 0.1% of the league to describe the whole league.

Coaching is also the Pistons problem: It's not that SVG doesn't have the players he needs, it's that he doesn't use the players he has.


http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2017/03/18/detroit-pistons-offense-stan-van-gundy/99351238/ wrote:“I feel a responsibility in terms of play-calling, and also in terms of our teaching and our habits,” Van Gundy said while shaking his head. “We watched a lot of it today … it’s just a lot of details we’re not paying attention to in terms of spacing, screening, ball movement, things like that. When you don’t do those things and execute with energy and you don’t end up with quality shots.”

Van Gundy said the team spends 75-80% of practice time on defense. Despite some inconsistencies, the defense is sixth in points allowed in the NBA (102.2).

The offense, however, is bottom five.

“I don’t think I’ve done a good enough job, really hammering home execution, basic things in our offense,” Van Gundy said. “I have to take the responsibility for that.”

Players play within systems that are determined by the coach. Sometimes they can break the rules, but only if you're a superstar, otherwise you're likely to ride the pine for failure to execute the game plan.

The fact that SVG spend so little time on offense shows up in a major way. When the going gets tough, players fall back to the only thing they know. Something needs to happen so they go ISO because they don't have any plays from the coach, or in our case, it likely is the play the coach called.

IMO, SVG has it backwards, spend the most time on offense and slowly bring in the defensive principles over time if you're building a team to compete in 3-5 years. That's how the Bad Boys did it and that's how the 2004 team got there... offense first.
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