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How badly do we want a (super)star?

Post  Sparma on Thu May 18, 2017 11:14 am

I believe that Boston would laugh at us for proposed trades of Andre Drummond for their #1 (and pieces to make for a trade match).

BUT I do think that now the #1 is officially theirs they'd be willing to trade us a guy who scored 28.9 ppg, who's been mentioned in MVP conversations, for that very same Andre Drummond (of course, the salaries would need to match, roughly, in the trade). Read a column about Boston needing to think carefully about trading Isaiah Thomas, who is 29 and about to be eligible for a 200 mil contract. With Boston about to land their PG of the future (likely Fultz), Thomas becomes dispensable.

Much as I think Andre's a heavily flawed player, I don't think I'd go for that trade. Thomas is a defensive sieve, and can be shut down once teams target him. And he's 29, with the Pistons looking far from ready to contend. But it strikes me as a realistic possibility for acquiring a (super)star player.

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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Thu May 18, 2017 6:07 am

@DX - Jump in anytime, we need your insight! "He may now be able to smell how funky his defense is." - DX.  Yikes, that's a whole lot of sniffing and a sh!t load of funk lol lol lol

Reggie: I mentioned earlier that this injury was something he had never seen before, let me clarify. He's had the exact same injury, but the surrounding circumstances were different. In OKC, he never had to come back soon, and when he did, he was still a limited minute backup. So he had an unrealistic belief that he cold come back as a starter this time and play major minutes... big mistake.

Boston: The Celtics are a great regular season team, but they're hardly a #1 seen in any conference, even one as weak as the eastern conference has been this year. They simply don't have much of a chance with one man when that man's name isn't LeBron!

SVG, get on the effing phone: The Lakers basically announce that they're open for business.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170517-lakers-get-number-two wrote:
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Stan Van Gundy is thinking short term and is not building for the future

Post  cool breeze on Thu May 18, 2017 12:57 am

I still ask this question relating to what went on this season. Did anyone believe after Reggie Jackson returned and the team was at full strength that Detroit would end up with a good record and make the playoffs in the extremely weak Eastern Conference? I sure didn't believe it could happen. If you watched the games it was clear that this Piston team was horrible. Remember the Suns pounding Detroit and on almost every other night the Suns were getting pounded by other teams? Now look at the draft lottery positioning for the Suns. They were good enough to beat Detroit at full strength with several Phoenix starters out long term. Now let me repeat our Piston team was at full strength and this is something SVG hates to bring up. This is his team. His team of ineffective low energy helpless defenders who also have low basketball IQs when it comes to playing defense. So if you are in charge of coaching and the front office how in hell could you allow your team to end up with no 2nd round pick and sitting in 12th position in the 2017 NBA draft. Our leader refused to look objectively at what he had as players and then refused to tank or attempt to make any adjustments as to his player rotations (with the exception of doing a dumb thing by demoting Harris) or change the way his team attack opponents on offense. No adjustments were make to improve the interior defense because his child and SVG appointed team leader handling the starting center duties had a free pass. His pass included keeping the shooting coach off his back, no accounting for lack of shot blocking, no accounting for failure to box out his man which allowed many second change opportunities and tip ins when the big guy decided to stand too far under the basket. Andre didn't take into account that this is a game where the fans can watch all the players on their team perform because there are only 5 guys on a team. Fans who go to the game could see Andre playing with his arms down below his waist showing no willingness to work hard to contest shots attempted by his man. We all saw it but Stan Van Gundy.

What a mystery this season was as to how the coach now believes that he has every base covered and every position is at full strength. After getting his ass beat so many times for lack of effort or failure of his stupid offense featuring a lot of 3 balls from players who can't shoot 3s because there is no ball movement or player movement to create a threat for a drive or a mid range jump shot, Stan Van Gundy has solid players at every position right? No our coach and President is a short timer. He doesn't really care about what the team will look like in 3 years. He has no patience for Ellenson or any other young player he might draft to develop. He must fool the owner for one more year and Stan seems to be doing a good job in that area. What if SVG saw what many of us saw who actually watched the games. Who in their right mind wouldn't have greatly reduced the minutes of Drummond or traded him before the deadline? Who wouldn't have brought Ellenson into the rotation once the Leuer experiment crash landed? Who wouldn't have used some D-League players to fill the gaps and maybe get lucky with a keeper? No he couldn't do that because that would be considered tanking. And Stan Doesn't tank so we end up with no top 5 pick again and again and again. How many years will we go without a top 5 pick? Nobody could have done any worse than this management team did this last year in every area they failed. Yet they (Stan & Jeff are still cocky and confident walking around at the Chicago Combine acting like they know what they are doing. We fans ponder how this team can be improved but Stan says they are solid at every position. That is something that P.T. Barnum would say to get people to guy a ticket at the circus. Will he bring out a sword swallower in the break after his steam is blown out again in the first quarter from lack of effort? What will it take to fill the empty seats?????

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu May 18, 2017 12:18 am

[quote="Sparma"]Pistons pick 12th.

Read a column about #12 picks: lots of solid players, no superstars, as I remember.

I'd have some temptation to go with a specialist shooter like Luke Kennard, working from the expectation that you're not going to get the overall transformative player at 12. Tankathon has him at #21 though, so I guess that would be a reach.

Which (Michigan) column said we were "due" for some good luck, given how our lottery history? Not how probability works, unfortunately for us.

Plenty of great players have gone after #12, such as Kawhi Leonard and our own Dennis Rodman, but you'd need to be pretty lucky to strike gold sitting at #12.

More mediocrity likely ahead, but no one knows for sure.

You named two players who have some common characteristics.. They have HEART, they both showed that they care about defense and they never seem to get tired on the basketball court. Some NBA players never get tired after the game when they party. The fans go home exhausted from the ideal of watching dull basketball while at the same time some players are just getting started with their night time activities. dX likes Bell from Oregon. I have seen him play a lot and have never witnessed that man take a play off or fail to go hard on the boards. We do need someone to can become an effective shot blocker and interior defender. But Stan Van Gundy is looking for an offensive weapon. The experts at the Chicago Combine had Detroit taking North Carolina's small forward. This is the season to have at least one 2nd round pick. Management has talked about possibly making some move that will add another pick. I can't see how they will do it. As SVG says Detroit is solid at every position and the team just needs a little bit of tweaking. Which team was he watching after so many late season games of getting blown out in the first quarter? Was he watching the Bucks after the Pistons game?

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Hey y'all, I think you're on to something

Post  deusXango on Wed May 17, 2017 8:33 pm

Oracle wrote:Ballin, you have a knack for bringing up good points. Yes, a lot of "if's", but not all of them are unrealistic... comments below.
BallinD wrote:If impaired breathing caused Dre's chronic sluggishness (all the way back to UConn, BTW) then there is hope since he finally got it fixed and can now lose some bulk and focus on rim protection and using his length and athleticism to guard the P&R. A short-range jumper wouldn't hurt. I agree, this is total BS on Drummond's part! About the ONLY thing that nose operation will do for him is ease the process of blowing boogers out faster! He may now be able to smell how funky his defense is.

If Weggie just needs rest and treatment, then there is hope he will also do the Harden and become an assist machine as well as an offensive threat.  Like Harden he has asthma and like Harden he cannot defend.  If only... I do think Reggie's issue was something he's NEVER seen before and didn't realize how long he needed to be out to fully recover. I can't believe Reggie could feel his egotistical paranoia more intensely than his body's needs...what an athlete.

If Tobias shoots 1,000 threes a day all summer and returns ready to shoot 40% on 3pt shots. 40% is a bit high, but he can get better, however Harris's issue is that he's too passive. I don't know if it's because he still feels new to the team or it's just the way he is. If he starts acting like an alpha dog having the confidence to take the 3 and calling for the ball more, a lot can change.
Calling for the ball on the bench? If Harris can lead the team in scoring while being passive, why do we want to trade him?
If SVG truly uses Boban as a weapon, runs offense through him, designs plays for him, for once forces other teams to react to us... I'm pretty sure this will happen If SVG uses him, it can only be as a weapon...that seems to be what he naturally is.

If Ish is our captain and we use him as a more offensively skilled Lindsay Hunter to apply on ball pressure and continue to push the pace even more than last year. Ish will get his shot I hope and pray.

If KCP gets the S&T Treatment, or at least avoids the Dre big contract signing syndrome and takes a step up in his game. I still would like to sign KCP to something like 15K per, which puts him just below Reggie & Harris(both about 16K), which is where he logically fits, IMO, but the starting salaries are a moving target. That's excellent GM thinking...what type of GM do we have?

If SVG uses MM as an off the bench instant offense weapon and defensive stopper. SVG has a great opportunity to reset the lineup, which a coach gets when the team didn't perform up to the expected level. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll do this one for leadership reasons, but we'll hope! It's a piss-poor leader that can only lead from the starting lineup...that's more like a self-centered bully.

If Stanimal can somehow get his shooting and handles on point. I expect to see one hell of a season from Stanley. I want to see the aggression and confidence come back. SVG knows he needs him to fulfill his destiny for us to be successful, and he will give the youngster more leash!
Can or does SVG have the humble willingness to do this?
If SVG plays the rook and Ellensen in a revamped modern offense Both I and DX wish he could start, that comes from the heart and gut, but both of our heads realize that if it happens, it'll happen later in the season, not on day one. With a record of 37-45, why do we have to wait one game into the season to start Ellenson? He's had a year and two off seasons to prepare!

If that is kool-aid Oracle, please STOP.  LOL I've been know to drink a LOT of Pistons kool-aid, but after this season, trust me, that's the hard stuff  lol lol lol



Oracle wrote:
Excuse me for butting in, but this was too good of a post and re-post by two of my favorite/thoughtful posters. Oh, pour me a drink of that.
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Good one Ballin...

Post  Oracle on Wed May 17, 2017 5:44 pm

Ballin, you have a knack for bringing up good points. Yes, a lot of "if's", but not all of them are unrealistic... comments below.
BallinD wrote:If impaired breathing caused Dre's chronic sluggishness (all the way back to UConn, BTW) then there is hope since he finally got it fixed and can now lose some bulk and focus on rim protection and using his length and athleticism to guard the P&R. A short-range jumper wouldn't hurt. I agree, this is total BS on Drummond's part! About the ONLY thing that nose operation will do for him is ease the process of blowing boogers out faster!

If Weggie just needs rest and treatment, then there is hope he will also do the Harden and become an assist machine as well as an offensive threat.  Like Harden he has asthma and like Harden he cannot defend.  If only... I do think Reggie's issue was something he's NEVER seen before and didn't realize how long he needed to be out to fully recover.

If Tobias shoots 1,000 threes a day all summer and returns ready to shoot 40% on 3pt shots. 40% is a bit high, but he can get better, however Harris's issue is that he's too passive. I don't know if it's because he still feels new to the team or it's just the way he is. If he starts acting like an alpha dog having the confidence to take the 3 and calling for the ball more, a lot can change.

If SVG truly uses Boban as a weapon, runs offense through him, designs plays for him, for once forces other teams to react to us... I'm pretty sure this will happen

If Ish is our captain and we use him as a more offensively skilled Lindsay Hunter to apply on ball pressure and continue to push the pace even more than last year. Ish will get his shot

If KCP gets the S&T Treatment, or at least avoids the Dre big contract signing syndrome and takes a step up in his game. I still would like to sign KCP to something like 15K per, which puts him just below Reggie & Harris(both about 16K), which is where he logically fits, IMO, but the starting salaries are a moving target.

If SVG uses MM as an off the bench instant offense weapon and defensive stopper. SVG has a great opportunity to reset the lineup, which a coach gets when the team didn't perform up to the expected level. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll do this one for leadership reasons, but we'll hope!

If Stanimal can somehow get his shooting and handles on point. I expect to see one hell of a season from Stanley. I want to see the aggression and confidence come back. SVG knows he needs him to fulfill his destiny for us to be successful, and he will give the youngster more leash!

If SVG plays the rook and Ellensen in a revamped modern offense Both I and DX wish he could start, that comes from the heart and gut, but both of our heads realize that if it happens, it'll happen later in the season, not on day one.

If that is kool-aid Oracle, please STOP.  LOL I've been know to drink a LOT of Pistons kool-aid, but after this season, trust me, that's the hard stuff  lol lol lol



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If the ifs...

Post  Sparma on Wed May 17, 2017 1:39 pm

I like your list of ifs, BallinD.  Not sure if your closing if means you see them mainly as a goof.  To me, they show where there are semi-realistic prospects for upgrade within the existing structure.  Even some movement in the direction you describe would make a real difference.

BallinD wrote:If impaired breathing caused Dre's chronic sluggishness (all the way back to UConn, BTW) then there is hope since he finally got it fixed and can now lose some bulk and focus on rim protection and using his length and athleticism to guard the P&R. A short-range jumper wouldn't hurt.

If Weggie just needs rest and treatment, then there is hope he will also do the Harden and become an assist machine as well as an offensive threat.  Like Harden he has asthma and like Harden he cannot defend.  If only...

If Tobias shoots 1,000 threes a day all summer and returns ready to shoot 40% on 3pt shots.

If SVG truly uses Boban as a weapon, runs offense through him, designs plays for him, for once forces other teams to react to us...

If Ish is our captain and we use him as a more offensively skilled Lindsay Hunter to apply on ball pressure and continue to push the pace even more than last year.

If KCP gets the S&T Treatment, or at least avoids the Dre big contract signing syndrome and takes a step up in his game.

If SVG uses MM as an off the bench instant offense weapon and defensive stopper.

If Stanimal can somehow get his shooting and handles on point.

If SVG plays the rook and Ellensen in a revamped modern offense

If that is kool-aid Oracle, please STOP.  LOL



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There is Hope If

Post  BallinD on Wed May 17, 2017 1:28 pm

If impaired breathing caused Dre's chronic sluggishness (all the way back to UConn, BTW) then there is hope since he finally got it fixed and can now lose some bulk and focus on rim protection and using his length and athleticism to guard the P&R. A short-range jumper wouldn't hurt.

If Weggie just needs rest and treatment, then there is hope he will also do the Harden and become an assist machine as well as an offensive threat.  Like Harden he has asthma and like Harden he cannot defend.  If only...

If Tobias shoots 1,000 threes a day all summer and returns ready to shoot 40% on 3pt shots.

If SVG truly uses Boban as a weapon, runs offense through him, designs plays for him, for once forces other teams to react to us...

If Ish is our captain and we use him as a more offensively skilled Lindsay Hunter to apply on ball pressure and continue to push the pace even more than last year.

If KCP gets the S&T Treatment, or at least avoids the Dre big contract signing syndrome and takes a step up in his game.

If SVG uses MM as an off the bench instant offense weapon and defensive stopper.

If Stanimal can somehow get his shooting and handles on point.

If SVG plays the rook and Ellensen in a revamped modern offense

If that is kool-aid Oracle, please STOP.  LOL



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DX, I like your lineups, but STILL picking 12th... DAMN!

Post  Oracle on Wed May 17, 2017 5:41 am

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Back to reality and hopefully, real business

Post  deusXango on Wed May 17, 2017 5:13 am

It's time to start getting our moneys worth buy dumping this ridiculous SVG idea of favoritism over logic mentality; Morris and Jackson must come off the bench with the resigning of KCP! SVG has had 3 years to acquire stellar outside shooting and for whatever reason, it hasn't worked, so now it's time to go after the best defender (not best player available) in the draft at #12; the logical, but quite possibly unpopular pick would be, Jordan Bell out of Oregon. The team has enough offensive wannabe's, so why not go for that defensive gem? This young man doesn't need the ball to impact the game and would be the perfect bench player in a rotation featuring Jackson, Morris, Johnson, and Boban.

Drummond and Jackson must be broken up for both of them to be effective; Andre played his best basketball with Ish leading the team and Jackson could play his P & R with Boban with probably greater efficiency. Reggie and Morris as the shooters and Boban as the post presence would be all the offense we'd need and Morris, Stanley, Boban, and Bell are much better defenders than what we've had in our starting lineup and bench!

If SVG has the stones to start Drummond, Ellenson, Harris, KCP, and Ish, we'll see a markedly better starting unit. Allow Ish to play HIS game, get a real defensive big man coach in here to teach Drummond the finer, little things of defensive post play and put his imaginary need to be an offensive force on the shelf (the carrot on the stick is, when he shoots better than 65% in FT, SVG will think about talking about an offensive role for him, other than that offensive rebounds and put backs), and go back to running the offense through Harris and KCP; live with Ellenson's growing pains because there's no greater all around talent available than him this year at #12. Parlay Leuer for future considerations somewhere, let Bullock walk, along with Baynes, because they're just too much money and unreliable for bench players. That's the only way I can see keeping KCP at all costs and making team improvements.
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Trade

Post  Go Stones! on Tue May 16, 2017 10:30 pm

Would this work? We trade Dre for #1 pick, get a point guard to share time with Reggie (less time initially and more time later) and sign Baynes and use our #12 pick to get a center as backup. Resign KCP and don't sign Hilliard or Bullock. Sign a quality veteran 2 guard with extra money.
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As Expected

Post  Sparma on Tue May 16, 2017 10:15 pm

Pistons pick 12th.

Read a column about #12 picks: lots of solid players, no superstars, as I remember.

I'd have some temptation to go with a specialist shooter like Luke Kennard, working from the expectation that you're not going to get the overall transformative player at 12. Tankathon has him at #21 though, so I guess that would be a reach.

Which (Michigan) column said we were "due" for some good luck, given how our lottery history? Not how probability works, unfortunately for us.

Plenty of great players have gone after #12, such as Kawhi Leonard and our own Dennis Rodman, but you'd need to be pretty lucky to strike gold sitting at #12.

More mediocrity likely ahead, but no one knows for sure.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 16, 2017 8:43 pm

Oracle wrote:We all fail to proof read from time to time, but you raise a point that's a sore spot for me.

In football you have both offensive and defensive coaches which unlike basketball, have a lot more power and control.

SVG needs to seriously invest in both offensive and defensive coaches because the crap he trots out as good offense and defensive schemes are old, and, IMO, only worked because he had amazing(very tall for their time) forwards in Lewis & Turkgolu(sp) who shot the 3 very well. Added to that a solid defender at center, and you had tons of offense and good enough defense to get to the finals.

You bring up Boston, and Danny took a different path.

He found ONE guy and surrounded him with a bunch of average role players, but to make up for lack of talent, he got a very solid coach to instill a system.

It's amazing how far a team can get with good coaching, and if Boston ever gets better talent, they'll be very tough to handle.

But they were no match for us when we were running the offense through Harris & KCP! One thing that gets forgotten is that during that stretch, Ish Smith was twice the defender Reggie was on his best day! He also put major pressure on defenders which opened the floor for quality shots for everybody else.

We're much more talented than the number one seed in this conference, but talent doesn't matter if it's not focused on a goal.

Yes Oracle Lewis and Turk. did have an advantage with their size and during that period those two guys were at their peak shooing the lights out and they had a solid defender who clogged up the painted area. Hopefully being that SVG is not going anywhere until the end of next season at best, we better hope that he makes some adjustments with his coaching staff. The assistant coaches do most all of the work in practice and working individually with players. All of us keep waiting to see how any of his assistant coaches who have been here for 3 years have improved on player in any area. In Stanley Johnson's case, they have made him worse. Johnson is a big boy and has to figure things out for himself or maybe hire his own shooting coach. I doubt that Stan will fire any of his coaches. They will all go down together or we will see a miracle.

Going into next season, Stan Van Gundy will have a lot of pressure to win or else. Knowing this Stan might even tighten his rotation more. Will he do what is best for the future of the team or think short term and do what is best for Stan? Will he have the courage to allow Ellenson to get his feet wet while making mistakes for the first 3 months of the season or will the temptation be for the coach to give all the minutes to Leuer and Harris at power forward. I agree with dX and others that Harris should be starting at small forward. Morris should come off the bench and play both forward positions depending on match ups. However, it appears from what SVG has said since the season ended that he expects both Morris and Pope to be taking some of the leadership role next year. That revealing statement by the coach to the media must mean that Morris will start and Pope will be paid whatever his agents asks for this summer. Maybe the only changes we will see will be with Baynes possibly leaving along with Bullock and Beno might be finished as a Piston. Stan Van Gundy's biggest worry should be that he is obese and looks to have major health issues because of it. Maybe Jeff Brower and SVG need to stay away for each other on the road trips. Both seem to be eating the same things. Watching the two of them on television at the Chicago Combine was alarming. With all the negative things that I have said about the coaching staff and the front office, I am not poking fun relating to how obese those two employees of the Pistons are right now. They should be worried about surviving another year not winning or losing basketball games. They have the summer to figure it out. I know that Sean Miller lost something like 60 pounds in one year and he looks like a trim fit man now and he coaches better and feels like a new man. Come on Stan and Jeff get on Sean's program and come back to help the Pistons next fall with new bodies. That should be the change Stan cares about and I am sure his family would agree.

Let's hope that the Pistons do not move down from 12th position.

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Do we have shot creators on this team? Short answer is YES!

Post  Oracle on Tue May 16, 2017 1:50 pm

This Piston team is very talented when coached properly, and we have 3 ways we create shots that are very effective. The definition I'm using is that the shot creator MUST be able to create the shot when you need it, in the clutch in the 4th quarter.

Reggie Jackson: Reggie is capable of creating his own shot through a combination of deception & quickness. Opponents can know what's coming and still find it hard to stop. Reggie is also capable of getting almost anywhere he wants which puts pressure on the defense, but he uses it mostly for his or Drummond's shot, not the rest of the team.

KCP: KCP creates shots through movement. He's a slow starter at times, but once engaged, he effectively uses a combination of great speed and quickness coupled with screens to get off his shot. When engaged and the team is looking for him, this shot has proven to be hard to defend.

Ish: This one is not as defined because this shot creation is NOT for the individual, it's for others, but it is no less effective. Ish, even more than Reggie is able to get anywhere he wants to go on the court, and in a speedy fashion that disrupts defenses leaving others open for shots, however, when he gets behind defenses, he's open for easy layups or short range jumpers.

These are the true 3 ways we create shots. Harris doesn't create his shot as much as he's very adept at taking advantage of sleeping defenders to get to the rim, which is effective, but can't be counted on in the clutch.
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Don: No apology necessary...

Post  Oracle on Tue May 16, 2017 1:33 pm

We all fail to proof read from time to time, but you raise a point that's a sore spot for me.

In football you have both offensive and defensive coaches which unlike basketball, have a lot more power and control.

SVG needs to seriously invest in both offensive and defensive coaches because the crap he trots out as good offense and defensive schemes are old, and, IMO, only worked because he had amazing(very tall for their time) forwards in Lewis & Turkgolu(sp) who shot the 3 very well. Added to that a solid defender at center, and you had tons of offense and good enough defense to get to the finals.

You bring up Boston, and Danny took a different path.

He found ONE guy and surrounded him with a bunch of average role players, but to make up for lack of talent, he got a very solid coach to instill a system.

It's amazing how far a team can get with good coaching, and if Boston ever gets better talent, they'll be very tough to handle.

But they were no match for us when we were running the offense through Harris & KCP! One thing that gets forgotten is that during that stretch, Ish Smith was twice the defender Reggie was on his best day! He also put major pressure on defenders which opened the floor for quality shots for everybody else.

We're much more talented than the number one seed in this conference, but talent doesn't matter if it's not focused on a goal.


Last edited by Oracle on Tue May 16, 2017 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 16, 2017 12:44 pm

cool breeze wrote:Danny Ainge has hired the best YOUNG coach in the NBA (Brad Stevens) who has transformed one alpha dog ( Thomas) into a star while getting every other Boston player on board to play fundamentally sound basketball with extreme energy to lift up Boston to the point where that team has the best team chemistry in the entire league. How else can one explain what has happened in Boston? Smart played defense on Beal and was very effective last night and when he switched on to Wall Beal caught fire. However, Wall had his worst offensive game in his playoff career. Smart played smart on both ends especially the play where he screened off Gortat to allow Thomas to get an easy layup on the opposite side of the paint. How many times to we see any Piston player recognizing a situation and then reacting to do the right thing? Our players are just looking for their shot while standing around. Our players are well rested from standing around on offense but still do not expend maximum or even average energy on defense. Stevens has everyone playing with max. energy. My hope that somehow Boston would be interested in trading with Detroit for Drummond and would throw in their number one pick is out the window for sure. KELLY OLYNYK came off the bench and not only made Gortat insignificant but killed Washington in the 4th quarter with his outside shooting and driving ability. I have always loved the way Olynyk plays the game. His screens are bold. His foot movement and effort defending the paint is incredible. I thought that he was in properly positioned when he was called for a charge against Beal in the 4th quarter but it didn't matter. Go down the roster and you will see some familiar faces. If it is former Pistons Amir Johnson or Jonas Jerebco or other players who have been forgotten, when they get in the game playing for Stevens, they are always doing the right thing helping teammates, diving for the basketball, passing to the open player, always moving and never standing around, and best of all playing hard nosed defense with skill. So maybe it isn't fair to compare the plight of the current Piston team that has a team that looks nothing like Boston. With the massive payroll Detroit still has extremely weak and fundamentally unsound starters who have created terrible team chemistry with each other and an extremely weak bench. Detroit has unproven players with both groups and no alpha dog. So much for the selection of players by the Piston front office.

The decision maker (Stan Van Gundy) and his face man acting GM (Jeff Brower) have selected the worst coaching staff in the entire league. Instead of allowing the team to select their leader or leaders, the coach and GM have made that decision. And they picked the wrong players. Andre Drummond might be forced to play harder and smarter if the Pistons had a real standout leader or leaders. Drummond is not capable of playing smart because he is not a good decision maker because he cannot recognize situations on the court. This is what Isiah Thomas talks a lot about if you watch him on NBA TV. That is the key to success either on offense or defense. You have to be able to recognize how the opposing team is playing you on offense and what plays they are running on defense. Stan Van Gundy is not a stupid man who doesn't know what other teams want to run against the Pistons. I am sure he goes over opponent plays and provides individual game plan instruction on the Piston issued I-Pads to each player. So what puzzles me is the fact that somehow Andre Drummond either ignores the instructions and tips the coaches give him for an upcoming game or he is not capable of incorporating the instruction into his brain and then executing the instructions on the court maybe because the NBA game is just to fast for him. If the coaches ignore Drummond's weakness which is the case then they have helped cause the division and bad team chemistry this team exhibited from January through April this year. Case point would be how Anthony Davis sets Drummond up as the fool anytime he wants to. Gortat laughs at Drummond during the game and always gets the best of him relating to getting offensive rebounds because Drummond will not box out or making drives on Drummond because he is always out of position. As a GM for the Pistons you must see that happening and then have a serious talk with the coaching staff to fix things with the team. It is obvious that the idea that one man cana wear two hats will never work relating to giving that kind of power to Stan Van Gundy. He has an emotional relationship with Andre Drummond. That much is clear. If Andre's teammates get on him, there is hell to play from the coach. He protects Drummond at all times maybe because SVG does not want Drummond to get a bad attitude like he did playing for UCONN. So ignoring the glaring weakness because Drummond is really low basketball IQ player who plays with low energy but because the coach/President has made him a team leader of all things. Drummond needs to be led by a really good NBA player who is respected by his teammates. And that guy will never be Reggie Jackson who formed a click with Andre Drummond and selects the players he will pass the basketball to during games instead of passing to the open teammate. The Piston front office has created this mess within the team. Unless the players are changed and the team gets a fresh start the team chemistry will never change. Too much has happened with the players who are currently under contract. Either trade everyone except Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond or move those two players. Then if SVG is not fired after that takes place, then Stan will need to look inward and try to help all the players he coaches become better players.

The President/GM/Head coach has caused serious harm to the financial future of the Detroit Pistons relating to the team's ability to add better players as well as getting their fair share of the young guys coming in through the draft. This year there are some really good players that will be available in the 2nd round. However, SVG decided to throw in a 2nd round pick this season and next season in order to secure the rights to Reggie Jackson. Was that necessary? Of course Dumars decided to throw in Middleton to the Bucks to get Jennings when the Bucks had no interest at all in having Jennings return and no other NBA team was interested either. So SVG is not alone in making stupid decisions. Not only did SVG over pay for Reggie Jackson but he included two 2nd round picks when his current team was full of 2nd rate players. Then the Piston brain trust caved in on the negotiations with Andre Drummond. The homer press says that by treating player agents well, the Pistons have built a lot of respect for the organization. So is that how you built a high class organization? Do you have to kiss the asses of the player agents in hopes that they will throw you a bone in the future? That is how the Pistons ended up with the 3 highest payroll in the NBA with most limited ability of any team to improve their roster. All they can do is talk about signing Pope who is a below average starting 2 guard. Pope's agent will think highly of the Piston front office. That will mean something even though nobody knows that that might be. Meanwhile Boston will have the best chances of landing the first overall pick this team and also next season. That is Danny Ainge who works his butt off and is not in La La Land like our front office. I have to question the owner and some of his comments as well. Stan Van Gundy is a political animal. Tom Gores likes to court some of the young players and builds a bond with guys like Jackson and Drummond. They are a family. The family is loyal. However, the kids are kids. Kids can never be leaders when men are playing on the same team. If Drummond and Jackson were playing with small kids, that might be different. But the owner accepts calls from one of his kids and reacts. When he reacts how does Stan Van Gundy react? Does he have the courage to confront the two kids who have been designated the team leaders? The kids are captains and the other players are supposed to suck it up? Are you kidding? Team chemistry on the Detroit Pistons is the worst in the league. Does anyone dispute that? I am sure that the owner and SVG will try to use smoke and mirrors to fool people into believing that is not true. Will their be an open revolt on this team early next season by the players out of the click? I hope so. That could spell the end of the rule of Stan Van Gundy and will make the owner decide to remove himself a little more relating to forming personal bonds with the players.

My apology for not proof reading this post Piston fans.

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Now we should take about the inept Jeff Brower and Stan Van Gundy who run the the Piston organization

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 16, 2017 12:28 pm

Danny Ainge has hired the best YOUNG coach in the NBA (Brad Stevens) who has transformed one alpha dog ( Thomas) into a star while getting every other Boston player on board to play fundamentally sound basketball with extreme energy to lift up Boston to the point where that team has the best team chemistry in the entire league. How else can one explain what has happened in Boston? Smart played defense on Beal and was very effective last night and when he switched on to Wall Beal caught fire. However, Wall had his worst offensive game in his playoff career. Smart played smart on both ends especially the play where he screened off Gortat to allow Thomas to get an easy layup on the opposite side of the paint. How many times to we see any Piston player recognizing a situation and then reacting to do the right thing? Our players are just looking for their shot while standing around. Our players are well rested from standing around on offense but still do not expend maximum or even average energy on defense. Stevens has everyone playing with max. energy. My hope that somehow Boston would be interested in trading with Detroit for Drummond and would throw in their number one pick is out the window for sure. KELLY OLYNYK came off the bench and not only made Gortat insignificant but killed Washington in the 4th quarter with his outside shooting and driving ability. I have always loved the way Olynyk plays the game. His screens are bold. His foot movement and effort defending the paint is incredible. I thought that he was in properly positioned when he was called for a charge against Beal in the 4th quarter but it didn't matter. Go down the roster and you will see some familiar faces. If it is former Pistons Amir Johnson or Jonas Jerebco or other players who have been forgotten, when they get in the game playing for Stevens, they are always doing the right thing helping teammates, diving for the basketball, passing to the open player, always moving and never standing around, and best of all playing hard nosed defense with skill. So maybe it isn't fair to compare the plight of the current Piston team that has a team that looks nothing like Boston. With the massive payroll Detroit still has extremely weak and fundamentally unsound starters who have created terrible team chemistry with each other and an extremely weak bench. Detroit has unproven players with both groups and no alpha dog. So much for the selection of players by the Piston front office.

The decision maker (Stan Van Gundy) and his face man acting GM (Jeff Brower) have selected the worst coaching staff in the entire league. Instead of allowing the team to select their leader or leaders, the coach and GM have made that decision. And they picked the wrong players. Andre Drummond might be forced to play harder and smarter if the Pistons had a real standout leader or leaders. Drummond is not capable of playing smart because he is not a good decision maker because he cannot recognize situations on the court. This is what Isiah Thomas talks a lot about if you watch him on NBA TV. That is the key to success either on offense or defense. You have to be able to recognize how the opposing team is playing you on offense and what plays they are running on defense. Stan Van Gundy is not a stupid man who doesn't know what other teams want to run against the Pistons. I am sure he goes over opponent plays and provides individual game plan instruction on the Piston issued I-Pads to each player. So what puzzles me is the fact that somehow Andre Drummond either ignores the instructions and tips the coaches give him for an upcoming game or he is not capable of incorporating the instruction into his brain and then executing the instructions on the court maybe because the NBA game is just to fast for him. If the coaches ignore Drummond's weakness which is the case then they have helped cause the division and bad team chemistry this team exhibited from January through April this year. Case point would be how Anthony Davis sets Drummond up as the fool anytime he wants to. Gortat laughs at Drummond during the game and always gets the best of him relating to getting offensive rebounds because Drummond will not box out or making drives on Drummond because he is always out of position. As a GM for the Pistons you must see that happening and then have a serious talk with the coaching staff to fix things with the team. It is obvious that the idea that one man cana wear two hats will never work relating to giving that kind of power to Stan Van Gundy. He has an emotional relationship with Andre Drummond. That much is clear. If Andre's teammates get on him, there is hell to play from the coach. He protects Drummond at all times maybe because SVG does not want Drummond to get a bad attitude like he did playing for UCONN. So ignoring the glaring weakness because Drummond is really low basketball IQ player who plays with low energy but because the coach/President has made him a team leader of all things. Drummond needs to be led by a really good NBA player who is respected by his teammates. And that guy will never be Reggie Jackson who formed a click with Andre Drummond and selects the players he will pass the basketball to during games instead of passing to the open teammate. The Piston front office has created this mess within the team. Unless the players are changed and the team gets a fresh start the team chemistry will never change. Too much has happened with the players who are currently under contract. Either trade everyone except Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond or move those two players. Then if SVG is not fired after that takes place, then Stan will need to look inward and try to help all the players he coaches become better players.

The President/GM/Head coach has caused serious harm to the financial future of the Detroit Pistons relating to the team's ability to add better players as well as getting their fair share of the young guys coming in through the draft. This year there are some really good players that will be available in the 2nd round. However, SVG decided to throw in a 2nd round pick this season and next season in order to secure the rights to Reggie Jackson. Was that necessary? Of course Dumars decided to throw in Middleton to the Bucks to get Jennings when the Bucks had no interest at all in having Jennings return and no other NBA team was interested either. So SVG is not alone in making stupid decisions. Not only did SVG over pay for Reggie Jackson but he included two 2nd round picks when his current team was full of 2nd rate players. Then the Piston brain trust caved in on the negotiations with Andre Drummond. The homer press says that by treating player agents well, the Pistons have built a lot of respect for the organization. So is that how you built a high class organization? Do you have to kiss the asses of the player agents in hopes that they will throw you a bone in the future? That is how the Pistons ended up with the 3 highest payroll in the NBA with most limited ability of any team to improve their roster. All they can do is talk about signing Pope who is a below average starting 2 guard. Pope's agent will think highly of the Piston front office. That will mean something even though nobody knows that that might be. Meanwhile Boston will have the best chances of landing the first overall pick this team and also next season. That is Danny Ainge who works his butt off and is not in La La Land like our front office. I have to question the owner and some of his comments as well. Stan Van Gundy is a political animal. Tom Gores likes to court some of the young players and builds a bond with guys like Jackson and Drummond. They are a family. The family is loyal. However, the kids are kids. Kids can never be leaders when men are playing on the same team. If Drummond and Jackson were playing with small kids, that might be different. But the owner accepts calls from one of his kids and reacts. When he reacts how does Stan Van Gundy react? Does he have the courage to confront the two kids who have been designated the team leaders? The kids are captains and the other players are supposed to suck it up? Are you kidding? Team chemistry on the Detroit Pistons is the worst in the league. Does anyone dispute that? I am sure that the owner and SVG will try to use smoke and mirrors to fool people into believing that is not true. Will their be an open revolt on this team early next season by the players out of the click? I hope so. That could spell the end of the rule of Stan Van Gundy and will make the owner decide to remove himself a little more relating to forming personal bonds with the players.

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I'm about to mix a couple of metaphors here, LOL!

Post  Oracle on Tue May 16, 2017 3:18 am

First... Are you feeling lucky Punk(Clint Eastwood, Dirty Harry)???

I want to be rewarded for not tanking all the damn time, so I'm expecting the Pistons to get lucky and land in the top 3 of the lottery this year.


And just for a sweet diversion, with no disrespect to James Brown, here are some visions of loveliness, because...

It's a man's world!
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I don't agree with some of this, but all in all, an important post!

Post  Oracle on Mon May 15, 2017 3:22 pm

BallinD wrote:Great Post Cool.  I fear that you are right, the evidence shows it.  No way to paper over this mess, but they will try...

Specifically they will tell us last season was a fluke, The Core is back (We have no core), We have no real needs... Who will challenge the liars and the idiots??  Isn't this a pivotal year, yet there is no sense of urgency!! - There may be, but none of us would be notified until it happens

cool breeze wrote:Over the last month of the season, Detroit had no significant injuries that I know of. Many other teams had key players on the sidelines. Stan Van Gundy had all of his hand picked players available for duty. Five players were in the dog house including Johnson, Boban, Bullock, Beno and Hilliard. Stan's favorites, Drummond, Jackson, KCP, Leuer, and Morris were healthy and being tucked into bed with a bedtime story every night during this stretch. Harris was a part time visitor to the dog house with rumors floating around that he would be the most logical candidate to be traded in the off season. Why? Unknown to fans what's going on in the locker room, how players react to direction, who's doing what the coach wants and who isn't. You know that the nose is running, you just don't know the reason. My point is that you can say some things, but it's hard to divine the reason unless you have inside information, I don't, but maybe you do.

1. Poor game preparation against specific teams by the coaching staff and the players. This is 100% true, Don did make a case that I thought was compelling about SVG's lack of coaching.

2. Horrible team chemistry where the team played sloppy defense, did not help each other out, coaches did not call for any traps to take the ball away from scorers hurting the team at specific important moments. This, IMO, is more about coaching than about players. I keep saying this, but it never seems to sink in to some, coaching sets the plate for defending, it needs to be a system that is self reinforcing. We had that here once, and even when we lost talent, we still won because we had a system on both sides of the ball that JUST WORKED! We don't have that anymore.

3. Zero game time adjustments by the coaching staff during games where the starters were blown out in the first quarter. Just stand and watch with no answers was the norm with the head coach throwing a fit on the sidelines and yelling at the players sitting on the bench. This is probably the most disturbing surprise about SVG's coaching to me. You can't just talk about defense, you can't just say that players must play better defense, and you can't call timeouts just for the sake of hoping the distraction will make things better. You need a system and a freaking playbook designed to counter things that good coaches recognize. Most of all, like LB, you need to have players that you can go to in situations of need. LB was a master at having the right matchup sitting on the bench that rarely played, but when the right situation came up, he used him to the max.

4. When things were going bad mostly because of bad point guard leadership and lack of any paint protection on defense the coach would pull Stanley Johnson from the game to make the crowd think it was all his fault even though he seldom touched the basketball. What a phony excuse! If you can use that excuse for one player, why isn't it valid for every player?

5. KCP in his contract season with all the buzz about his agent asking for a max contract did not lead or make any impact that changed anything regarding the downward slide out of the playoffs. Who did? There's such a thing as momentum, it happens when things are going good and certainly when things are going bad. So KCP is at fault for not turning things around, and KCP isn't a superstar, which would be required to effect the change you're talking about, and one that could do that in spite of a bad PG and bad coaching. Seriously, this statement is beyond bizarre, as if a contract year should make a difference. BTW, is KCP making more or less than Stanley?

6. The final verdict has come in and Detroit gets the award for being the worst team in the NBA over the last month of the season. Maybe a few teams lost more games but if that is true it still places Detroit as the worst team because this Piston team had no injuries during that time period and played with the worst team chemistry. The word is FLAT. They were FLAT like a FLAT TIRE.  Again, WHY, and should KCP have turned that around too?

6. The players only team meeting where the players attempted to get real with each other and come out with some answers so as to change the course of the slide into the toilet was CRUSHED BY THE TEAM LEADER, ANDRE DRUMMOND and STAN VAN GUNDY. Please Drummond supporters tell the growing number of fans that demand he be traded and Stan Van Gundy sent packing his bags who else spilled the beans as to what went on in that meeting. The untold story is which players did Andre Drummond snitch on to SVG after the meeting? Andre said he didn't like it that some players were too hard on Reggie Jackson. I have been involved on teams that had private meetings and know there is a CODE you don't break with teammates. Andre Drummond broke the code. Is  there any wonder that the team chemistry over the last few weeks was worse than at any time I can remember for any Piston team that I have ever watched. In the past we might have had some really bad players but I never saw them quit and that is what this team did this season. The play where Whiteside made the tip in to win the game that took Detroit out of the playoffs is just one memory now of many bad memories relating to how this team played when it counted in the last month of the season. This team was not competitive. They were getting blown out badly early on in the games. Another major mistake by SVG! He complained about NOT having leadership on the team, and when that process started happening, he short circuited it and threw the whole team into a bad funk, causing players to have to take sides. With all of this evidence on the table, major PG issues, coaching mistakes & interference, all leading to dysfunction in the team, you seem surprised we had a bad season, and set out to blame players for the dysfunction... amazing! We've seen this level of internal dysfunction sink way more talented teams than we have(Lakers anyone).

I am sure I missed a few things here but you get the drift. But now all the attention is on KCP and how much money he will be making. Was he a difference maker when it counted? Did he step up and become a leader?(That's NOT the question, that's the excuse you want to use to justify your feelings) Who else stood out and set an example for the rest of the players who were just tired of all the nonsense created by Stan Van Gundy and his inability to let the team pick their own leaders. Stan picked the wrong leaders and then he made others the scapegoat. Stan never identified who had HEART and then stopped the special click created by his own designated leaders who betrayed him in the end. This theme runs through your entire thought chain. You know the players were victim of a dysfunctional coaching structure, but you also want to pick and choose the victims and the privileged, then seek to blame the innocent because the coach used them. This level of thinking also implies that IF the right players, read the ones you think are better in some way were elevated, the results would have been different.

The notion that the Pistons season was a fluke season of disappointment for unknown reasons is laughable. Players on other teams and coaches on other teams found out just how inept Drummond really is as a defender and offensive threat.  Stan Van Gundy has taken out the HEART of this team. His pet franchise player has shown no heart and has lost the trust of his teammates when he became a snitch. Work around that if you can. Nothing will change until the HEARTLESS ONE IS GONE. I don't agree here. This is again asking the wrong question, so the answer is going to be flawed. Drummond can get better, the real question is if SVG and his staff are the ones to do it. 
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon May 15, 2017 1:19 pm

BallinD wrote:Great Post Cool.  I fear that you are right, the evidence shows it.  No way to paper over this mess, but they will try...

Specifically they will tell us last season was a fluke, The Core is back (We have no core), We have no real needs... Who will challenge the liars and the idiots?? Isn't this a pivotal year, yet there is no sense of urgency!!

cool breeze wrote:Over the last month of the season, Detroit had no significant injuries that I know of. Many other teams had key players on the sidelines. Stan Van Gundy had all of his hand picked players available for duty. Five players were in the dog house including Johnson, Boban, Bullock, Beno and Hilliard. Stan's favorites, Drummond, Jackson, KCP, Leuer, and Morris were healthy and being tucked into bed with a bedtime story every night during this stretch. Harris was a part time visitor to the dog house with rumors floating around that he would be the most logical candidate to be traded in the off season.

1. Poor game preparation against specific teams by the coaching staff and the players.

2. Horrible team chemistry where the team played sloppy defense, did not help each other out, coaches did not call for any traps to take the ball away from scorers hurting the team at specific important moments.

3. Zero game time adjustments by the coaching staff during games where the starters were blown out in the first quarter. Just stand and watch with no answers was the norm with the head coach throwing a fit on the sidelines and yelling at the players sitting on the bench.

4. When things were going bad mostly because of bad point guard leadership and lack of any paint protection on defense the coach would pull Stanley Johnson from the game to make the crowd think it was all his fault even though he seldom touched the basketball.

5. KCP in his contract season with all the buzz about his agent asking for a max contract did not lead or make any impact that changed anything regarding the downward slide out of the playoffs.

6. The final verdict has come in and Detroit gets the award for being the worst team in the NBA over the last month of the season. Maybe a few teams lost more games but if that is true it still places Detroit as the worst team because this Piston team had no injuries during that time period and played with the worst team chemistry. The word is FLAT. They were FLAT like a FLAT TIRE.

6. The players only team meeting where the players attempted to get real with each other and come out with some answers so as to change the course of the slide into the toilet was CRUSHED BY THE TEAM LEADER, ANDRE DRUMMOND and STAN VAN GUNDY. Please Drummond supporters tell the growing number of fans that demand he be traded and Stan Van Gundy sent packing his bags who else spilled the beans as to what went on in that meeting. The untold story is which players did Andre Drummond snitch on to SVG after the meeting? Andre said he didn't like it that some players were too hard on Reggie Jackson. I have been involved on teams that had private meetings and know there is a CODE you don't break with teammates. Andre Drummond broke the code. Is  there any wonder that the team chemistry over the last few weeks was worse than at any time I can remember for any Piston team that I have ever watched. In the past we might have had some really bad players but I never saw them quit and that is what this team did this season. The play where Whiteside made the tip in to win the game that took Detroit out of the playoffs is just one memory now of many bad memories relating to how this team played when it counted in the last month of the season. This team was not competitive. They were getting blown out badly early on in the games.

I am sure I missed a few things here but you get the drift. But now all the attention is on KCP and how much money he will be making. Was he a difference maker when it counted? Did he step up and become a leader? Who else stood out and set an example for the rest of the players who were just tired of all the nonsense created by Stan Van Gundy and his inability to let the team pick their own leaders. Stan picked the wrong leaders and then he made others the scapegoat. Stan never identified who had HEART and then stopped the special click created by his own designated leaders who betrayed him in the end.

The notion that the Pistons season was a fluke season of disappointment for unknown reasons is laughable. Players on other teams and coaches on other teams found out just how inept Drummond really is as a defender and offensive threat.  Stan Van Gundy has taken out the HEART of this team. His pet franchise player has shown no heart and has lost the trust of his teammates when he became a snitch. Work around that if you can. Nothing will change until the HEARTLESS ONE IS GONE.

Ballin one of the experts at the Chicago combine made this statement. As a rule of thumb if you have not made a significant impact by the end of your 3td season as a pro then usually the hand writing is on the wall that you won't be an impact player throughout your career. Equally true as stated by this same expert involving NBA coaches. This guy said that if you haven't made an impact or are showing that your team is not moving in the right direction relating to betting able to compete with other rising teams well night in and night out, then you are usually fired. The Pistons have a head coach and a few assistant coaches who show no evidence that they have improved one player not to mention that the Piston team became the worst or close to the worst team in the NBA in the last month of this past season. The 3 year rule should apply in this situation relating to the assistant coaches and the head coach. This expert didn't mention the life span of GMs.

One other great statement that the entire group of experts mentioned as the most important ingredient to determine when signing free agents or selecting draft picks. HEART is the most important thing to find out with any player at any level. When a team is paying money for players it becomes even more essential to discover who has great HEART and who doesn't. It takes hard work to find those players who have a high probability of becoming successful and if you are not turning over every rock relating to a player's history in high school and college then you are apt to sign players who will disappoint. I attend a lot of college basketball games. When I look around or look at the big screen in the middle of the court, I usually see several NBA GMs watching the game in person not on television. Danny Ainge has an incredible work ethic. He attends a lot of games all season and knows the importance of doing things himself. It is no fluke that he was the guy who hired Brad Stevens who has the ability to help players improve and get on the same page as a team. Ainge is looking for talented players who have HEART. Also, Ainge will always try to talk with the head coaches and assistant coaches relating to players he is targeting during each visit. Ainge wants to know not only if the player he is looking at has HEART but also how how receptive the kid is to coaching and absorbing what is being taught. This is something that Joe Dumars never thought was important. That is why he ended up with Rodney White, Darko, Daye, and I am sorry to say, Andre Drummond. Drummond fits the profile of a player who shows very little HEART and he has the reputation of not being able to absorb instruction and transferring the instruction into a positive situation of himself or his team.

If you fail to detect the two critical factors - HEART and ABILITY TO PROCESS INSTRUCTION then as a GM you are a failure. If you are a head coach and work with players day in and day out and cannot figure out who is capable of processing instruction or execute the basic fundamentals of playing offense and defense, then how do you stack up as a coach? The most puzzling question that I have is how Stan Van Gundy can tolerate his captain and franchise player who has shown little to no heart all season long and for sure is not capable or processing instruction. Instead, the head coach has decided to ignore those two traits that Drummond has never possessed. Players who have heart do not give up. They do not play defense with their arms below their waist or fail to work hard with their feet on pick and roll plays while switching instead of rolling back into the paint to guard the opposing center. If Ainge saw Drummond switching like that instead of moving, he would cross Drummond off his list quickly. Nope we don't want him. Yet Stan Van Gundy pretends not to see this happening. Talk about how you can create bad team chemistry. That is incredible and Stan looks the other way all the time with his pet players. So the 3 year rule should apply to Stan Van Gundy. It was a huge mistake to ever give SVG two jobs when he is not capable of doing one the right way. Flaws in players and coaches will not go away next year. The owner is just slow on the uptake. It was time to move on in the middle of last season. When SVG sent Harris to the bench and ignored the lack of heart by his franchise player he should have been terminated. Drummond could have been traded before the deadline. He got a lot worse after the deadline and now the word is out throughout the league that you have to worry about how Andre will affect team chemistry if you take on his contract. The only option now is for Drummond to get a heart transplant. He is the guy who wants to be called at team leader without doing any work to earn that title. And the coach is OK with it. Everyone who cares about the Pistons have good reason to be pissed off with the direction this team has gone.

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The Real Truth: Gospel!!

Post  BallinD on Mon May 15, 2017 11:05 am

Great Post Cool.  I fear that you are right, the evidence shows it.  No way to paper over this mess, but they will try...

Specifically they will tell us last season was a fluke, The Core is back (We have no core), We have no real needs... Who will challenge the liars and the idiots?? Isn't this a pivotal year, yet there is no sense of urgency!!

cool breeze wrote:Over the last month of the season, Detroit had no significant injuries that I know of. Many other teams had key players on the sidelines. Stan Van Gundy had all of his hand picked players available for duty. Five players were in the dog house including Johnson, Boban, Bullock, Beno and Hilliard. Stan's favorites, Drummond, Jackson, KCP, Leuer, and Morris were healthy and being tucked into bed with a bedtime story every night during this stretch. Harris was a part time visitor to the dog house with rumors floating around that he would be the most logical candidate to be traded in the off season.

1. Poor game preparation against specific teams by the coaching staff and the players.

2. Horrible team chemistry where the team played sloppy defense, did not help each other out, coaches did not call for any traps to take the ball away from scorers hurting the team at specific important moments.

3. Zero game time adjustments by the coaching staff during games where the starters were blown out in the first quarter. Just stand and watch with no answers was the norm with the head coach throwing a fit on the sidelines and yelling at the players sitting on the bench.

4. When things were going bad mostly because of bad point guard leadership and lack of any paint protection on defense the coach would pull Stanley Johnson from the game to make the crowd think it was all his fault even though he seldom touched the basketball.

5. KCP in his contract season with all the buzz about his agent asking for a max contract did not lead or make any impact that changed anything regarding the downward slide out of the playoffs.

6. The final verdict has come in and Detroit gets the award for being the worst team in the NBA over the last month of the season. Maybe a few teams lost more games but if that is true it still places Detroit as the worst team because this Piston team had no injuries during that time period and played with the worst team chemistry. The word is FLAT. They were FLAT like a FLAT TIRE.

6. The players only team meeting where the players attempted to get real with each other and come out with some answers so as to change the course of the slide into the toilet was CRUSHED BY THE TEAM LEADER, ANDRE DRUMMOND and STAN VAN GUNDY. Please Drummond supporters tell the growing number of fans that demand he be traded and Stan Van Gundy sent packing his bags who else spilled the beans as to what went on in that meeting. The untold story is which players did Andre Drummond snitch on to SVG after the meeting? Andre said he didn't like it that some players were too hard on Reggie Jackson. I have been involved on teams that had private meetings and know there is a CODE you don't break with teammates. Andre Drummond broke the code. Is  there any wonder that the team chemistry over the last few weeks was worse than at any time I can remember for any Piston team that I have ever watched. In the past we might have had some really bad players but I never saw them quit and that is what this team did this season. The play where Whiteside made the tip in to win the game that took Detroit out of the playoffs is just one memory now of many bad memories relating to how this team played when it counted in the last month of the season. This team was not competitive. They were getting blown out badly early on in the games.

I am sure I missed a few things here but you get the drift. But now all the attention is on KCP and how much money he will be making. Was he a difference maker when it counted? Did he step up and become a leader? Who else stood out and set an example for the rest of the players who were just tired of all the nonsense created by Stan Van Gundy and his inability to let the team pick their own leaders. Stan picked the wrong leaders and then he made others the scapegoat. Stan never identified who had HEART and then stopped the special click created by his own designated leaders who betrayed him in the end.

The notion that the Pistons season was a fluke season of disappointment for unknown reasons is laughable. Players on other teams and coaches on other teams found out just how inept Drummond really is as a defender and offensive threat.  Stan Van Gundy has taken out the HEART of this team. His pet franchise player has shown no heart and has lost the trust of his teammates when he became a snitch. Work around that if you can. Nothing will change until the HEARTLESS ONE IS GONE.
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If Stan Van Gundy and Tom Gores are watching the playoffs they must know that they have created a monster loser with no relief in sight because of the contracts

Post  cool breeze on Mon May 15, 2017 9:42 am

Will se see and hear more smoke and mirrors from Piston management as they attempt to prop up the dysfunctional team that THEY created? Lessons t be learned from the playoffs and especially how the Spurs manage their team reveal that Piston management has been living in the dark ages.

Individuals get a reputation sometimes not based on performance but basic luck they have had in the past. This is sometimes true with NBA coaches and I think it is true regarding Stan Van Gundy. So this past season showed fans who watch closely that SVG has a lot of weaknesses relating to how to manage a team and how to select the right players to form a team. You can't just go out and hunt for shooters. You need to get players who all offer a different blend of talent, desire, and a high basketball IQ to be successful in the NBA. If your team sustains injuries the coach in charge must be able to make adjustments and find a way to bring out the best in the players who are healthy.

The Spurs coaches ability to make adjustments with their team is fantastic. But it is clear that Pop knows that no NBA team can be successful if key players have LOW BASKETBALL IQs. He would never sign a player to a big contract who has a low basketball IQ and has a history of not being coachable. It is like night and day for coaches to have smart players. Even at the high school level you can pick out players who listen to the coach and comprehend what the game plan is and remember the game plan and execute the game plan during the game. That is the most exciting experience for a coach to see players who UNDERSTAND THE GAME AND CAN EXECUTE. If you have a starter who doesn't know that they do not know and has no curiosity in their personality that drives them to KNOW, then you just cannot move on with that player. That player on the Pistons is Andre Drummond not Reggie Jackson. Failure to address and identify this basic thing while attempting to mask the negative effect on a team by the coach will result in a year like the Pistons had. This kind of thing would never happen with Pop in charge in the Spurs organization. Take a look and try to find one player who doesn't show off a high basketball IQ. They might miss shots but seldom fail to play basketball the right way. If a big man fails to box out his man one time, Pop will see it. He will never have his back to the game action like Stan Van Gundy. He will not ignore the fact that his center cannot prepare and recognize basic offensive plays an opponent is trying to run as they continually get shots in the painted area. I am amazed that SVG who is supposed to have a high basketball IQ himself is playing this smoke and mirrors game of ignoring his number one problem.

Remember this season when we fans watched both Jackson and Smith dominate the basketball and fail to adequetly defend. Opposing teams could go around Jackson anytime they wanted to. Jackson was confused with basic defensive rotations as to when he should switch and when not to switch. While many fans think highly of Smith, when he was on the floor and an opponent really needed a basket, they picked on Smith and would eventually get that one on one match up and shoot over him. Now can you recall where some of us kept writing posts begging the coach to try something else including using someone other than either Jackson or Smith to bring the basketball up the floor to start the half court offense. SVG was stuck with this idea that the team needed to play up tempo style. However, by playing a combination of Drummond and Leuer in the paint and either Smith or Jackson at point guard, the team was so weak defensively that they opposing teams were scoring a lot in their half court offense. When the ball goes through the hoop that destroys the up tempo style of offense. You cannot get an advantage and beat an opposing team down the court if you have to wait until the ball goes through the net and you have to inbound the basketball. Opposing teams are already set up and go to the spots where SVG tells his players to STAND. So when you use small ball dominating point guards who have extreme weaknesses defensively, what is the advantage of playing them at all? Meanwhile of you have a player like Stanley Johnson who has played a lot of point guard in the past and has a high basketball UQ along with good defensive skills, and he dribbles the ball up the court like Leonard did in this last playoff game for the Spurs, you eliminate one of the big defects in your defense. You still have Drummond in there because the team cannot get rid of his contract ( yes that is the real truth Piston fans) but you have added a solid defender who can learn to guard players John Wall. You have a much different looking team. Johnson has the ability to recognize how the defense is set up and then get the other players into proper spacing. He makes players better on offense. I am sure some of you have seen him pass the basketball. Johnson's issues concern ball handling right now but if the coach told him that this was going to be his role for the team, I know that he would come back next fall with a different skill set. He would then feel like he is more of a part of the team and the special click between Reggie jackson and Andre Drummond would be broken. Thus, the team chemistry would greatly improve. Johnson would make Harris into a real star that he can be. It will never happen under SVG's current strategy of a ball dominate point guard. Johnson can be the leader this team really needs. He has been a leader on every other team he has ever played on. Meanwhile, Drummond has never been a leader on any team he has played on until SVG decreed he was the Pistons leader.
SVG attempted to use Hilliard at times towards the end of the season in the role of bringing the ball up the court and eliminating the point guard. It didn't work because Hilliard does not have the basketball IQ of Stanley Johnson. If Johnson is no longer the player that I think he is, then until Jackson and Smith are gone, the coach needs to find another player who has defensive skills do this job of bringing the ball up the court, initiating the offense BY RUNNING THE PLAYS THE TEAM WORKS ON IN PRACTICE and then moving without the basketball. That is where Johnson shines. He can move without the basketball after he passes the ball, set good interior screens and open up lanes for other players. We have no player who does that. Players just stand and let Jackson or Smith attempt to create something. We saw that all season long.

Meanwhile, Pop has helped create a fantastic player in Leonard. This guy has worked hard on his ball handling skills and Pop recognized Leonard's extremely high basketball IQ and put him position to use it. That is what made Zeke the best Piston player of all time. His basketball IQ is off the charts high. And it was Zeke who said the very same thing I am saying this past winter about Stanley Johnson. He is not being used properly. We need more players like Stanley Johnson. That is what Thomas said but SVG just has no clue at all. The coach did not tap into the assets his players have and develop those assets. Instead he has played kiss ass with Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. And where has that gotten him? If Tom Gores were paying attention and would ask advise from Isiah Thomas, SVG would be long gone. Next season SVG will trot out the same players using the same offense and defense. He will bitch out Stanley Johnson for not fitting into his stupid offensive plan. He will wonder why the 3 point shooting is so bad even after watching his players stand around and the ball being dribbled too much instead of seeing the ball being passed from side to side and players moving and setting screens for each other. How in hell can a coach keep his job after this season? It wasn't about how many games the team lost it was all about how the team played on both ends of the floor. Meanwhile, the Spurs team plays outstanding team defense regardless of if it is bench players or starters playing, and they sure do move without the basketball and pass the ball around finding the open shooters or cutters. Nobody on that team has a low basketball IQ. They all have a variety of skill sets and are not just 3 point shooters.

Pope has not developed the ability to handle the basketball any where near the level of Leonard. It is unfortunate that the Piston coaches have not helped him get up to speed in that area. That is Pope's big weakness and limits his effectiveness as an offensive player. He has recognition issues as well and that is another strength of Leonard.

The highly paid coaches and GMs especially working for the Pistons need to make sure any player they draft already has a high basketball IQ. You cannot teach a player to have this trait. They are born with it and have worked on it as young kids. You can see kids in the 8th grade stand out from the others. Imagine Ginobili as a kid playing basketball. He is so damn smart. I want to enjoy watching SMART basketball players in the future wearing Piston uniforms. Why SVG does not look for that basic ingredient in players he picks out is shocking to some of us. Meanwhile, I love the post game interviews with Brad Stevens who constantly talks about the need to have a high basketball IQ. HE sure has one. The guy is smart as hell and his players know it and love playing for him. The same feeling is there for Pop by those Spurs players. He makes every player better. It is about the players and making them successful for the great coaches. For the others it is about forcing players to play the style the coach decides regardless of who the players are. The players are just numbers in SVG's world. I can think of only one player who wants to play for Stan Van Gundy next season and that guy is Andre Drummond. Andre wants to do his thing. The coach says OK Andre do your thing. I will screw with the other guys.

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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Sun May 14, 2017 6:10 pm

Oracle wrote:Here is my thought, and I do like what Lemonpen had to say,
Lemonpen wrote: In my mind we cannot go into next season with 3 huge contracts none of which is for an established All Star. Its tough to plan on some unnamed FA, draft pick or trade prospect.
On May 22nd my preference is to pay KCP and say bye-bye to RJax.

First, I agree that 3 large contracts without one star among them is not sustainable, and I like your solution with some additional information.

Drummond: Yeah he looks like trash, but it's way too early to give up on him, but if we were to do that, we blew it big time when we passed on Cousins. He would have been a centerpiece to actually build around and it's hard for me to see how we wouldn't be in the playoffs regularly. Deals like that just don't happen too often, so Drummond is worth keeping because what he does, he does very well, unfortunately what he doesn't do well he totally sucks at, but that can change. Exactly!!!

Reggie: His health issues can be managed by playing him fewer minutes and saving him for end of game situations, but that's not the biggest issue with him. Reggie's problems are legion,
1. He's past 25 and the type of issues he has never get better, just worse.
2. His style of play is an issue, but just like his health, it also can be managed
3. The biggest issue is that he's holding back the progress of Harris & KCP, both of whom need the ball to move to stay in the flow. KCP and Stanley suffer the most as they can go many possessions with quality touches.
Exactly !! Pt Dux
Considering all of this, we should look to move Reggie, but it may not be workable before the season starts, it may not happen until the Feb. Deadline.

KCP: The only smart thing to do is to sign him, there isn't any other choice. I prefer to keep KCP, but if there is a S&T that makes a lot of sense then we would be fools not to entertain it. But a move just to make one makes no sense, and we need to wait to see how things play out.

Nothing is valuable unless you value it. Only Drummond isn't playing up to his contract, Reggie played his heart out last season after he got paid, I expect KCP to do the same and improve as well.

That's the big 3. After that, we have to wonder how long we want to keep Leuer, and that likely will depend on how fast Ellenson can develop.

However, we better pray that Baynes get a higher offer, because he could come back and we have to pay him. No Problem there.

So no, this isn't a blow it up plan in the short term, but keeping our options open to make smart moves as they present themselves. If we get into a situation where we have low paid guys, waiting around for their potential to show, we won't have tradable assets and because we can't attract the big FA's, we would be in a really bad place.


Yep, makes no sense to pay them big lootie if we aren't going to put them in the best situation to succeed.
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The homer media along with Piston management use smoke and mirrors to coverup the real truth about this Piston team. Here is the real truth.

Post  cool breeze on Sun May 14, 2017 12:42 pm

Over the last month of the season, Detroit had no significant injuries that I know of. Many other teams had key players on the sidelines. Stan Van Gundy had all of his hand picked players available for duty. Five players were in the dog house including Johnson, Boban, Bullock, Beno and Hilliard. Stan's favorites, Drummond, Jackson, KCP, Leuer, and Morris were healthy and being tucked into bed with a bedtime story every night during this stretch. Harris was a part time visitor to the dog house with rumors floating around that he would be the most logical candidate to be traded in the off season. He came off the bench like a trooper but how was the best scorer treated by the Piston brain trust. Was his ass kissed as much as Drummond's? Did the head coach cover up for his mistakes like he did for Andre Drummond? I recall that Stan did say some negative things about Jackson but NEVER allowed the bought and sold Detroit sports media to write much of anything negative about Andre other than he is young yet and needs to be more engaged. That word 'engaged" was not mentioned until Detroit lost to Miami in the last seconds 100% due to lack of work ethic by Andre Drummond. Too far under the basket - did not attempt to jump - did not think to box out etc, etc, etc.. Has everyone forgotten that play? I can't believe so many fans fall right into the prescribed planted spin stories that divert attention to the real truth about this team. The last month of the season brought Piston fans the following.

1. Poor game preparation against specific teams by the coaching staff and the players.

2. Horrible team chemistry where the team played sloppy defense, did not help each other out, coaches did not call for any traps to take the ball away from scorers hurting the team at specific important moments.

3. Zero game time adjustments by the coaching staff during games where the starters were blown out in the first quarter. Just stand and watch with no answers was the norm with the head coach throwing a fit on the sidelines and yelling at the players sitting on the bench.

4. When things were going bad mostly because of bad point guard leadership and lack of any paint protection on defense the coach would pull Stanley Johnson from the game to make the crowd think it was all his fault even though he seldom touched the basketball.

5. KCP in his contract season with all the buzz about his agent asking for a max contract did not lead or make any impact that changed anything regarding the downward slide out of the playoffs.

6. The final verdict has come in and Detroit gets the award for being the worst team in the NBA over the last month of the season. Maybe a few teams lost more games but if that is true it still places Detroit as the worst team because this Piston team had no injuries during that time period and played with the worst team chemistry. The word is FLAT. They were FLAT like a FLAT TIRE.

6. The players only team meeting where the players attempted to get real with each other and come out with some answers so as to change the course of the slide into the toilet was CRUSHED BY THE TEAM LEADER, ANDRE DRUMMOND and STAN VAN GUNDY. Please Drummond supporters tell the growing number of fans that demand he be traded and Stan Van Gundy sent packing his bags who else spilled the beans as to what went on in that meeting. The untold story is which players did Andre Drummond snitch on to SVG after the meeting? Andre said he didn't like it that some players were too hard on Reggie Jackson. I have been involved on teams that had private meetings and know there is a CODE you don't break with teammates. Andre Drummond broke the code. Is there any wonder that the team chemistry over the last few weeks was worse than at any time I can remember for any Piston team that I have ever watched. In the past we might have had some really bad players but I never saw them quit and that is what this team did this season. The play where Whiteside made the tip in to win the game that took Detroit out of the playoffs is just one memory now of many bad memories relating to how this team played when it counted in the last month of the season. This team was not competitive. They were getting blown out badly early on in the games.

I am sure I missed a few things here but you get the drift. But now all the attention is on KCP and how much money he will be making. Was he a difference maker when it counted? Did he step up and become a leader? Who else stood out and set an example for the rest of the players who were just tired of all the nonsense created by Stan Van Gundy and his inability to let the team pick their own leaders. Stan picked the wrong leaders and then he made others the scapegoat. Stan never identified who had HEART and then stopped the special click created by his own designated leaders who betrayed him in the end.

The notion that the Pistons season was a fluke season of disappointment for unknown reasons is laughable. Players on other teams and coaches on other teams found out just how inept Drummond really is as a defender and offensive threat. They already knew that they could foul him and win games but when they discovered how inept he was as a defensive player, opposing teams owned the paint. Opposing coaches outsmarted Stan Van Gundy all season long. SVG is not a guy who can make adjustments because he had it set in stone that Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson would come to life knowing the season was coming to a close and show their real abilities and get the team into the playoffs again. Remember that Reggie Jackson did that the season before so that was Stan's lone game plane. He didn't care if his offense didn't fit his players. He was OK with letting Stanley Johnson flounder around trying to figure out how he could impact that stupid offense where you just stand around.

Yet here we are and all we talk about is which player Stan is looking at in the draft. Or will KCP sign a max contract with the Pistons and what is Baynes going to do? How about Johnson will not play in the summer league but Ellenson will play? See there is nothing real to talk about is there. The team will go to training camp with perhaps one more new player from the draft unless Van Gundy trades that pick to get an old warn out 3 point shooter. No real problem will be addressed. If this is true can anyone imagine what the team chemistry will be like next season? The owner is AWOL in my opinion. We will suffer for one more season. And the players outside the click will also suffer. We will never know their true value. But one thing is for sure that the press keeps on telling us almost everyday. The coaching staff with Stan Van Gundy are working real hard. Oh they are really hard workers. Nobody out works Stan Van Gundy. Yes it appears that this story line is much like the guy who decides to renovate his old bathroom and takes 2 years to do it. He works really hard but makes a lot of mistakes installing the plumbing and gets the project almost finished but damn a big water leak ruins everything he has done. Stan Van Gundy has taken out the HEART of this team. His pet franchise player has shown no heart and has lost the trust of his teammates when he became a snitch. Work around that if you can. Nothing will change until the HEARTLESS ONE IS GONE.

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Drafting

Post  BallinD on Sun May 14, 2017 11:47 am

So it appears we have no glaring needs in the draft, to hear them tell it...Mediocrity and Ignorance is Bliss, I guess. How about the worst shooting team in the league, how about one of the worst offensively challenged teams in the league, a team lacking in chemistry and identity.

Once again VanBower has spun a tale and the public is running with it.  How about we need a shooter or two.  How about we need a rim protector.  How about we need a perimeter defender who can also initiate and run a pro-style offense and knock down shots.  How about we need a wily veteran.

I think in this draft, we should be trying to get as many picks as possible through judicious trading, but can we trust
Stan to draft and play the right man?  It seems to me that SJ and Ellensen could have some serious synergy on the floor if played together and may become special.

I am firmly in the camp of taking calculated risks ...That Is Not Blowing It Up ... to get better based on need and fit, not sit around on our hands and spout the "draft the best player" and that is that drivel they spoon out to us.  Can we draft a stud?  Rookies playing in the playoffs for SA, and other teams expose SVG's stupidity in refusing to play Ellensen.  Does he wanna be a Popovich or a D'antonio ( shortened his rotation down to 7).  We know he aspires to be D'antoni, but he needs to be nudged toward Pop and Casey and Stevens and other innovators from the bench


Last edited by BallinD on Sun May 14, 2017 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops)
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