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Curry vs. Westbrook debate not so simple to determine

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:01 pm

This is an excellent piece, although I may be biased since Zeke is the expert called in to help the writer understand point guard play!

Zeke confirms that times have changed somewhat, and he gives a very good explanation of what's important, and how to evaluate!

Curry vs. Westbrook debate not so simple to determine

I like this piece because it lays out the perspective we need to use when evaluating players like Westbrook, Jackson, Parker, Paul, etc.

Point Guard isn't just traditional pass first, and IMO, it's not the point guard you think you want, it's the PG you actually need that works best!

Zeke also shows why a traditional pass first PG that can't score doesn't work well! I think the Bucks are going to discover that Kidd got the PG he wanted, NOT the PG that team needed! BTW, Knight is averaging 22points, 5 rebounds and 6 assists per game(about the same as Reggie), MCW is averaging 11points, 3 boards and 5 assists per game!


Last edited by Oracle on Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Okafor Opens up can...

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:29 am

Looks drunk as a skunk too, I hope legal drinking in Boston is 18 years old, because he's only 19!

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J.Oakfor

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:47 pm

Young blood. Why you even listening to those TRASH people out there in Boston. They nobody's


You young, you rich, you talented. Next time you in Boston, call some other people and find out where the other pro's go chill out at and go there instead of the local pub.



Now that bum going to sue you guaranteed and you facing suspension. Losing money is not cool baby boy....
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Easy Win Against Garbage Heat

Post  FlyDog on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:40 am

I don't care what Miami's record is........when you only play Home Games, that will pad the win column. They stink!

I didn't think Detroit played particularly well, but the one thing they did well was drain 3's, and against crummy Miami, that was enough. It was nice to see Blake play well, I thought he did a good job of finding the open guys. We may have found a team with a crappier bench than our own!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
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So what do we know if nothing else childrens...

Post  Oracle on Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:23 am

The rookie battle is on tonight!!!



A pretty even battle!

  1. Stanley is scoring better in fewer minutes, but
  2. Winslow is rebounding and shooting better
  3. Both coming off the bench, so they should absolutely be guarding each other at some point
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No truer words...

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:15 pm

Seb, you nailed it!!!

Ok, they all say the right things, fatigue isn't an excuse, but seriously, these dudes are getting burned out before the season has had a chance to get started! It's way too high a burn, and inconsistency is going to be the least of our worries if the bench doesn't start to shoulder their proper part of the load!

Couple those ridiculous minutes with a horrible unforgiving schedule that has given them no rest to speak of, and we have a recipe for disaster! What else can explain this crap...

While it was good to see Stanley go off, he's a rookie, and only does so every few games or so... that will change, and when Jennings comes back, between him and Stanley, there's going to be hell to pay for other 2nd units!

SVG is very concerned because he thought he knew who these guys were, and that was my initial reaction as well, until I remembered what I had been writing about those high minutes! They started hitting us in the Wizard game, and robbed us of the gas needed to pull out a victory in a game the Wiz kept looking to lose!

But the Buck game, where we faced a motivated team on the road is where the truth came out! We'll likely look good this next game, but can we close it out? You need rested starters to close out games, and there's just no other way!

Yes the Bucks have a good young team, but they're similar to us, they don't shoot well from anywhere, but that doesn't mean that you don't have to provide great defense to stop them.

I know there was a film named "Some came running"(with the absolutely stunning Martha Hyer), but last night, the Pistons figured out how to come while running because what else can explain the spastic way they kept turning over the ball in the first half? Just throwing away scoring opportunities! Oh well, it's time to move on...


Sebastian wrote:GM Stan is going to have to come up with a solution to OUR roster. Somehow, he is going to have to make an addition to OUR 5 1/2-man roster, before the return of B. Jennings.

I have been somewhat pleased with the play of new additions, Morris and Ersan, but these guys along with Reggie, Dre', and KCP are required to play far too many minutes. Truth be told starters' minutes that are currently being played by Morris, Ersan, and even Reggie are far more minutes that each has been required to play during their careers.

In 271 games played Marcus Morris has only started 73, 14 of which have occurred this season. Ersan has played 467 games with 271 starts, and Reggie has played 286 with 90 starts. Even Dre and KCP are still young starters.

GM Stan has to come up with some way to steal a player or two from another NBA roster.
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The Roster ...

Post  Sebastian on Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:59 pm

GM Stan is going to have to come up with a solution to OUR roster. Somehow, he is going to have to make an addition to OUR 5 1/2-man roster, before the return of B. Jennings.

I have been somewhat pleased with the play of new additions, Morris and Ersan, but these guys along with Reggie, Dre', and KCP are required to play far too many minutes. Truth be told starters' minutes that are currently being played by Morris, Ersan, and even Reggie are far more minutes that each has been required to play during their careers.

In 271 games played Marcus Morris has only started 73, 14 of which have occurred this season. Ersan has played 467 games with 271 starts, and Reggie has played 286 with 90 starts. Even Dre and KCP are still young starters.

GM Stan has to come up with some way to steal a player or two from another NBA roster.
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Reggie Jackson obviously is not playing like a smart point guard on either end of the floor

Post  cool breeze on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:21 am

Last night Jackson was the worst Piston defender on the entire team. The cardinal rule is stay in front of your man. Jackson wasn't even looking for his assigned man and allowed his guy to do whatever he wanted to do. But from the get go, I knew that this game was going to be very difficult for our Pistons when Jackson continued his tendencies of dribbling too much with no plan on offense. For those of you who watched this game, you would agree that KCP had the hot hand. However, as usual, Pope seldom gets to touch the basketball much when Jackson is running things. How many times in the first quarter did we see Pope open on the baseline where 95% of NBA point guards who have made that safe pass to the hot player. Instead, Jackson is only thinking about what his defender is doing to him along with his tendency to always attempt a low percentage pass to the right side of the court or inside to Drummond. We have too players who are supposed to be franchise players that do not show me that they are gifted relating to the MENTAL part of playing basketball. They play hard at times but do not play SMART. But they are physically gifted athletes who will surprise us at times with incredible athletic heroics.

With the above in mind, I believe that next season, Stanley Johnson will be the team leader. He knows what it takes to win and has the high basketball IQ and ability to lead a team by example. However, Johnson will need to spend every moment of his summer working on his mid range and outside shooting. We can see his ability to penetrate with his amazing first step and power. I fully expect knowing his work ethic (which is much like that of Brandon Knight) that Stanley Johnson will not allow his team to get away with playing defense the way this Piston team played last night.

Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond will never be team leaders until they become more disciplined. Lack of being leaders by example in the past hurt their ability to lead this team now. Both need to just settle down and play within their current limit of abilities and bust their asses all the time on defense. As of today, both players are showing their teammates that they are inept defenders and poor decision makers on offense. The rest of the Piston players followed the example Drummond and Jackson set last night and nobody should be shocked at the outcome aganist that Bucks team. The Bucks are not a really good team as some of you are believing after they played our Pistons. Our guys made them look great giving them a lot of confidence after the Bucks made layup after layup with no interior Detroit big man offering any threat to block a shot in the paint. This is the same old story we have seen a lot of over the past few seasons where our team fakes playing defense allowing easy layups early on until our opponent gets supreme confidence and starts knocking down the long jump shots. New voices need to be heard from in the locker room now and Jackson and Drummond need to focus on their own weaknesses for awhile because December, January and Feb. will be coming up fast and this is when our previous Piston teams have cracked in recent years. I fully expect players in the 2nd unit to start pulling their weight more and looking better as the players get to know each other better. The starters are the big concern. If our Pistons did make the playoffs and something is not done to increase movement without the ball and more passing earlier in the shot clock using both sides of the court, then last night will be the norm for our Piston team. The Bucks actually learned a lot from the first meeting and also through scouting created a game plan to destroy and make a fool of Reggie Jackson on both ends of the court. Jackson took the bate hook line and sinker. I can understand Jackson's reaction to facing a team that would not allow him to go what he wanted to do on offense. But there is no excuse for his lack of guts on defense. If you are a true leader, you show your teammates by example. Jackson gave little or no effort on defense and seem to give up against the bigger athletic point guard he was facing. Van Gundy was clearly upset in post game and must wonder about where this team is now headed. Will this be the bottom and the players will use this game to play with guts and smarts or will they slide into a deep depression as we have seen other Piston teams go. Because we have seen it so many times before, it is easy to believe this team is headed down into the toilet. But there are some new faces who might change things in a positive way. i still have hope. These guys did beat Cleveland. But if Jackson and Drummond don't get a lot smarter, they will bring down this team.

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Milwaukee is A better team and it is what is is for now

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:31 am

Milwaukee has A amazing young team. I really like what they have over there. I like Milwaukee at the 2,3,4 and 5 spots. They good. I'm not A fan of Carter Williams but I like everybody else. I like Jason Kidd also. Then, when you add in the bench guys, Milwaukee is 20 times better then Detroit at every position other then Center.


Detroit will have they day where they just as deep as Milwaukee but not today. Today Milwaukee is by far, the better team.

3 or 4 years from now. If Milwaukee can keep the organization stable, keep the same head coach, owner, GM, and find A Point Guard who can lead and shoot the basketball, Milwaukee will be back in the NBA Finals. And I believe they could win one just like Golden State. I think Parker and the Greek Freek will be really special players.
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They played like virgins

Post  merc on Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:03 am

http://i.imgur.com/37LBJQz.webm
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Giving credit where credit is due

Post  deusXango on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:44 pm

Ooooo, the Moose just led an embarrassing ass whoopin'. Is my face round? Seriously, Greg played a great game (against us) and we played sh!tty...it's good to see him fitting in with his new team, but wait until the next time big fella!!
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What's Worse?

Post  BallinD on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:54 pm

What's worse than half of the starting lineup not showing up tonight?

The same ol bench did show up. Ouch. Need Reggie to do his Superman thing.

And what about all those mean old former Pistons trying to make us look bad.
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This bench is really bringing back my...

Post  Oracle on Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:01 pm

Fear of Clowns!

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DX, you had me rolling on the floor with this one...

Post  Oracle on Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:44 pm

"how many charging fouls did Monroe take in his entire career as a Piston? I forget. Was it as many 3 pointers he made?" - DX

lol!

You may be correct, and it may also be equal to as many fast breaks he led!

Look I really do like Monroe, even though his time here was clearly over, and I wish him all of the luck and success in the world, but...

Tonight I just want to kick his ass up and down the court, and oh yeah, that damn team he rode in with too!!!
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I just happen to notice

Post  deusXango on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:12 pm

Our starting unit is playing their collective asses off!! Why fix something that isn't broke? They haven't been together for half a season and are already playing better than expected, on top of the fact, our starting forwards are far better than what we've seen starting in a Pistons uniform for the last 5 years!

Some want to throw Ilyasova into the trade machine at the earliest possible opportunity because of his injury history or his supposedly "old age;" how many charging fouls did Monroe take in his entire career as a Piston? I forget. Was it as many 3 pointers he made?

SF play and production has been atrocious until this year with Marcus Morris; Tayshaun was on the floor during those horrible sub 30 win seasons and never was a legit threat to be a "go to guy," but we're too ready to consign Morris to playing PF so that our prize rookie can start at SF and he's not ready to start. It appears to me we're trying to fix something that ain't broke.

In all honesty I wasn't gaga over the idea of waiting for Jennings to return like he was some great savior, but looking at the sorry bench play we have, I had to seriously re-think my position; our 2nd unit badly needs scoring, floor spacing, and direction...all things that Jennings can provide. I'm not changing my stance on Fuckin' Jodie Meeks however!!! Crank up the trade machine for him and Tolliver A.S.S.P. In a shortened rotation of 8 men, Jennings, Baynes, and Stanley I project to be more effective than what we've been getting and if it's expanded to 9 men, I want to see Hilliard get a shot, instead of hearing "he ain't ready" by fans who're not at the practices or have any concrete evidence to support that, other than SVG isn't playing him. It sticks in my mind that Rick Carlise wouldn't play Tayshaun, but once he did, we all know the history there.

The bench needs addressing, not the starting lineup, and that should be taken care of in the next month, if impatience can hold out that long; a beneficial trade for a player of merit or draft pick or draft positioning in the future, but I think the team is playing up to the projections of this forums members highest guesses/visions for this years win totals. Fact is, we all may have under estimated what this team would do.
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Carmelo

Post  Go Stones! on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:29 pm

I wouldn't give that much up for C. Anthony. There are only a few people I WOULD give that much up for, however. I'd love to get Kevin Durant, but we don't know what his future will be with his injuries.

If we can get either a SF or PF all-star to see our potential with them in the lineup, I think you may see someone come to Detroit as a free agent. I say PF or SF since Morris could play either position.

In the past, we have had to trade, borrow and steal in order to get decent free agents. Billups - free agent. RIP - trade. Prince - Draft. Sheed - trade, initially. Wallace - trade. They all were outcasts that ended up gelling as a unit. We need that and are close to it.

I'd rather trade: EI (reasonable team option), Meeks (1 year - 6M remaining) and Jennings (expiring contract) rather than affecting our young future.

Joe Dumars used multiple good players to get fewer and better players in return quite successfully when he first came on the scene, circa 2000. I can't be sure, but either that was Hammond's doing or Hammond has learned from Joe and is doing it the same way in Milwaukee. I believe it was the former, since once Hammond left there was little, if anything, done.
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Um Yeeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh.............No

Post  FlyDog on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:51 am

I wouldn't take that bum Carmelo Anthony for free. He's a ball hog.
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Shaking my head...

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:33 pm

This would be odd under normal circumstances, but with or non-bench, it would be a disaster!

Article wrote:

A combination of Brandon Jennings, as the Knicks need a point guard, prized rookie Stanley Johnson and Ersan Ilyasova would make a great haul for the Knicks. The Pistons could also throw in a first round pick.
What???

All of that for a 31 year old fading, no defense playing SF?

What's worse is that if we did that, we lose any hope of reviving the bench, as two of the potentially BEST players would have been Jennings & Stanley! What to we do then, turn the bench over to the remaining poot butts?


There's more, you can read it here: NBA Trade Rumors: Carmelo Anthony To Detroit Pistons Could Become Next Eastern Contender; Brandon Jennings As Trade Chip
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At Least Dimwitted Knows what The Problem Is.....

Post  FlyDog on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:58 am

Good article on mlive.  At least they aren't delusional.  Lemon, I think once we have a competent PG playing with the 2nd unit, it will make guys like Baynes, Tolliver and Johnson much better players.  There is zero spacing right now.  I will say, the outcome would have been better had Johnson not had a couple of real tough luck misses from deep........he had a couple that were half way down that somehow rimmed out.
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Da Bench

Post  lemonpen on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:48 am

They would look a lot better defensively if the other team had to take to the ball out of the basket sometimes. This situation sure places a lot a pressure on a recovering Jennings. Not a good thing. For the time being I wish they would feature Baynes as the #1 scoring option. He looks like the most complete reserve offensively speaking.
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The Bench ...

Post  Sebastian on Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:35 am

Sucks, big time! Stan needs to address this issue, before the return of B. Jennings, although an 85% B. Jennings will be helpful. Is it time to bring Adonis Thomas up from the D-League? Also, Stan needs to give Stanley a more defined roll, more minutes, and insert him into the rotation sooner than he has, thus. It is time for Stanley to start putting more good games, more consistently.

I am totally disappointed with Reggie Bullock. This dude must be satisfied with the minimum NBA contract. He is  blowing a golden opportunity.

OUR starting five is playing hard, so far, but let's not get it twisted, this Piston starting 5 is not as good as the Trailblazers' 2013-14 starting 5 that played all 82 games and won 54 games.

Hey GM Stan, this roster needs help, sooner rather than later!

Oh, and another thing, Dre' Drum needs to cut his damn hair. Come on Dre' you're looking like damn bum. Your momma has raised you better than that.

Phil1980boy wrote:I don't like the Washington Wizards. Pistons should have won this one. 4 Things.

1. Bench lost this game. Stan Needs to give his rookie Hillard A strong look. I like the kid. He can shoot it and he was in College for 4 years so he not A young kid. He A grown azz man and he can shoot the ball.

2. Bullock. I give him credit. When he was playing for his NBA life, he played ball. Now that he has been pick up for 1 more year, HE PLAYING LIKE S.H.I.T. HE needs to be more aggressive and show the Pistons something. I know he has it in him.

3. I give some credit to Washington. They played good defense and the bench guys are solid over there. Well coached team also. But I don't like John Wall. PS...Reggie out-played Wall but Washington won so that's what matters.

4. Trades. Detroit could use some help. Let's see what happens on the Trade market when it opens up.


Last edited by Sebastian on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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1st Quarter Was Really Bad..........

Post  FlyDog on Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:25 am

The Wizards conducted a layup drill in the 1st Quarter. I was very impressed with how the 1st unit played when they came back in during the 2nd Quarter, but like Oracle said, they expended a ton of energy in that time; especially Jackson who was electric in that time span.

Not only does our bench have trouble getting a decent shot or stopping the opposition..........they have trouble getting shots off period. The Wizards bench isn't exactly dynamite, but I thought Ramon Sessions (Along with Nene) were the difference in this game. That's why I can't wait to get Jennings back and healthy. Not only can he make plays for himself (Like Sessions, but better), but he can get other guys some good looks with his penetration. Dimwitted, Blank and Buttocks........ none of those 3 bums can do any of this.
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Washington Game

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:43 am

I don't like the Washington Wizards. Pistons should have won this one. 4 Things.

1. Bench lost this game. Stan Needs to give his rookie Hillard A strong look. I like the kid. He can shoot it and he was in College for 4 years so he not A young kid. He A grown azz man and he can shoot the ball.

2. Bullock. I give him credit. When he was playing for his NBA life, he played ball. Now that he has been pick up for 1 more year, HE PLAYING LIKE S.H.I.T. HE needs to be more aggressive and show the Pistons something. I know he has it in him.

3. I give some credit to Washington. They played good defense and the bench guys are solid over there. Well coached team also. But I don't like John Wall. PS...Reggie out-played Wall but Washington won so that's what matters.

4. Trades. Detroit could use some help. Let's see what happens on the Trade market when it opens up.
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Tollibum, Dimwitted, Bummes and Buttocks

Post  FlyDog on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:28 pm

Correct Oracle, our bench is just pathetic. The worst part was watching Nene embarrass us. Geesh. This team needs Jennings back to rest Jackson and give our bench some semblance of hope. I've seen enough of Dinwiddie; he's D League fodder as far as I'm concerned. Give Blake his minutes back and dump that bum.
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Worn down by an ineffective bench...

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:56 pm

The bench just couldn't deliver much!

SVG really needs to dig deeper to see if Hilliard can give him something more than Bullock, who's been next to useless after looking so damn good in the preseason!

Drummond misses a double/double, and they couldn't penetrate Washington's defense down the stretch!

IMO, it was due to lack of legs, the energy just wasn't there, Reggie was sweating so much he was doing a Chauncey impression!

Oh well...
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